So since Billy is getting nerfed when are we gutting Decisive Strike?
Billy is supposedly completely fine but they're gonna nerf him to add that extra bit of "counterplay". So when is DS, the perfectly balanced survivor perk that totally not everyone in red ranks use because it's a crutch second chance perk, gonna get it's own little taste of extra "counterplay"?
A community manager was the one who suggested this and I think it's fantastic. DS can mostly remain exactly how it is right now, but if the survivor gets healed, starts healing another player, touches a gen, enters a locker, or unhooks another survivor it automatically cancels DS. The healing portion should cancel it if they touch a survivor just like if they touch a gen, and the self healing portion should cancel it if their healing progress exceeds 30%. That second part is important because survivors would just 99 their bars so they can still keep DS up till the last second but still leaves them some room incase a teammate accidentally taps M1 on them and basically feeds them to the killer.
The way he put it was pretty much DS is fine if they don't want to get tunneled but by performing an action like mentioned above then they themselves are making the choice to put themselves back in the game and should lose their protection.
Comments
And if it's a 58 second DS that i can't predict, because i downed and hooked two other people in that time? DS is definitly NOT fine until situations where it gets clearly used offensively are patched out by additional conditions.
DS is fine. Eat the stun before endgame then it’s basically wasted perk.
I personally like it because I get 60s of “invincibility”. At least it somewhat helps with getting tunnelled out of the game early on.
However if you refuse to eat the DS for whatever reason early on then it’s on you if it reaches endgame and DS bails the survivor out.
I’m sorry but I’m not just going to get out ASAP if I have DS running. I will use it to my full advantage in endgame.
I especially like it when me & teammate make a coordinated save, I bait the killer to grab me with DS active and teammate rescues survivor with BT while the killer gets a 5s stun. So satisfying when it all comes together.
DS is an anti-tunnel perk. It should not be nerfed. If you don't wanna get decisive striked, don't go after a survivor that just got unhooked. It's that simple
@Sunri
Because apparently they just can't find the way that 99% of other killers have been countering it ,since forever.
So anytime they can fit the "nErF Ds" post they will. Point proven in this thread alone. Where literally the two (Hillbilly and DS) have nothing to do with each other.
They wanna tunnel slug and camp without anything hindering that. That includes DS being as a strat, even when the devs themselves have already said it's not strictly an anti-tunnel perk. I guess if they repeat it enough then they hope everyone will believe it?
I'm guessing OP is neither good at Billy or countering DS.
Im perfectly fine if they delete both perks. Both reward for failure. So i think both perks should receive hard nerfs
Without DS the person would be on a hook, how the ######### is that a wasted perk. It's a whole hookstate, killers don't have anything close to that
how does NOED reward failure when the game is literally designed to a 2k (in other words 5 gens will get done unless survivors screw up)
Nothing is stopping you from chasing & downing the survivor after the DS. However it has much better utilisation in endgame.
Or survivors could put on their big boy pants and stop relying on so many second chances.
That is still a whole new damn chase which amounts to at least 30 seconds unless the survivor is an absolute potato. One of the best killerperks awards a 20 second gen regression AFTER hooking somebody, let that sink in.
KIllerperks should by design be much stronger than survivorperks yet the survivormeta consists of perks that you could get use of every game.
If you’ve hooked 2 people within 60 seconds then you’re doing great and DS is the least of your problems. I don’t see what the issue is.
Well you can’t get use out of DS if you are slugged. Or better yet if you aren’t targeted by the killer within 60s of being unhooked.
The issue is, that the survivors can be smarter in the next chase. Or in a better position. You don't get infinite chances to win as killer.
billy nerfed; bubba buffed, we're gutting ds when noed gets a change
That breaks the game tho. Besides, DS and BT have different uses in the game. I mean, if DS is gonna get gutted based on Terror Radius, Wiggling(especially after a hook) needs a massive buff.
So unless you wanna change the meta from DS Unbreakable to Unbreakable Flip-Flop with everyone running Breakout. Making Mad Grit+Agitation the only viable counterplay. Which essentially reverts the meta all the way back to version 1.0, when Agitation and Iron Grasp was the only counter to Saboteur.
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Ds already got changed. Back then you couldn’t pick up the obsession and the other survivors couldn’t use it unless they’re wiggle bar was 35%
It arguably got buffed if you are solo now.
Ds is not 100 percent used dont use false statistics. Second it has counterplay, slugging. Simple they cant so anything while slugged and if they got unbreakable so what they just wasted it and yeah I do agree ds needs a change to be situational like once exit gates are powered it should be deactivated depending on the amount of survivors because if you need to guarantee that second kill you should but guaranteeing 3 or 4 no thats entitled survs abuse ds like getting inna chase then jumping into a locker which I've done but only be cause I was tunneled for looping the killer and he didn't want me to live
I play enough as killer, never had to deal with DS. Because I. DONT. TUNNEL.
Simple no ?
DS has too much utility and currently isn't an anti tunnel perk, as confirmed by Peanits. Its a " I can do a gen with complete safety for 60 seconds and if you come near ill hop in a locker, but if you get me before I run into a locker, Ill just get up with unbreakable and out skill you.". You should lose DS if you touch a gen, heal someone, or get into a locker.
The only way to nerf DS is to return it to its older version where it didn't require a hook to use.
Billy wasnt completely fine. He was getting to a point where he either was going to need a change which might make him excessively underpowered or extremely overpowered. The current changes allow the devs to be more generous in addons and perks.
It's very simple: Base kits without addons and perks shouldnt be enough to beat a similar skill survivor team with 16 perks, 4 items, 8 addons and 4 offerings. Ths ofcourse includes that 4 survivors with 0 perks, 0 addons and 0 items should not be able to beat a similarly skilled killer with 4 perks and 2 addons. Which, they cant. 4 survivors rely on at least 9 perks shared amongst them to beat a killer.
Besides, DS is balanced. There is only 1 or 2 situations where it wouldnt be balanced, which is the EGC allowing for a free escape. But lets be honest here. If someone has never been hooked before the exit gates opened and they have DS. That's on you.
As for the changes suggested, let me apply all the problems:
So, considering DS's purpose is NOT anti-tunnel, it's anti-"removing you from the game". And it does it's job at that. You have enough counterplay. Here, let me give you some options:
Plenty of counterplay. More counterplay than other survivor perks that are IMO at least 5x stronger than DS.
End game, play against 4 DS's and play around all of them and see if you can get a single kill during egc. That's when DS screws over most killers. And good luck slugging it out because DS's main counter play is itself countered by Unbreakable.
You said the changes aren't equivalent but the numbers are pretty close 5% of the killer arsenal nerfed for around 1~2% of survivor arsenal nerfed
A nerf can be met with a nerf to lower the overall power level of the game
The difference makes up for the proportion of arsenal
Good
Then you aren't playing against good players who know how to abuse it and pressure you. Your games against potatoes don't matter in a balance discussion.
When are survivors going to learn to do totems if they hate noed lmfao
Of course i do but i dont mind its part of the game
We can talk about nerfing DS when Noed gets removed first.
You guys got your most toxic and cheap perk, and we got ours.
Just like how Noed has "so much counterplay and is completely fair" so is DS. Just do something else for 60s, chase someone, patroll gens, whatever.
Outplaying DS is one of the least problematic things in DBD at the moment.
idk what you're talking about but he said it was not purely anti-tunnel, but yes it is an anti-tunnel perk.
Then what is it besides an anti tunnel perk? What did he mean by that if not trying to cover their backs by trying to write off that it is purely an anti tunnel perk?
back in my day we had ds on first down that was fun couldnt even hook the guy. we also had all non obsesion have a 33% ds good luck outplaying that when people are blocking you towards the hook so current ds is the best state it is in cause all you have to do is SLUG its not hard
i got it boys, Make NOED base kit so survivors have to do secondary objective (totems) and Kindred base kit for those solo survivors or comms
Killers have received many buffs over the past time as well, the argument of Billy getting a small nerf warrants a nerf to DS doesn't really make sense.
That's like saying if survivors wouldn't gen rush Noed wouldn't be used. But we are suggesting here to keep DS for anti tunneling and remove the crutch effect
Oh don't you worry. Billy will still be a strong tunneler after the update.
That DS was actually weaker than the current one. Not only the skillcheck is now bigger and much easier to hit, also other perks like enduring, unnerving no longer give any soft counters.
I can't speak for him and tell you what he meant, I can only say he said what he said.
As for what it is besides anti-tunnel. DS in its current form in an ant-tunnel, anti-snowball, anti-momentum, punish the killer for doing well, abused, easy save, easy gen progress, time waster, free health state, easy escape at endgame, offensive defensive perk with no counter play where the killer doesn't take a loss in some form (especially with the small pp build of DS Unbreakable). Just off the top of my head.
Lmao bro I swear the same killers who ######### and moan about DS are the first ones to tunnel the ######### out of you when they see there is no obsession
Got on this morning and played Killer for the first time in 6 months as Clown. 4K my first 2 matches and a 3K for my last... I was a cry baby killer main who slugs and leaves them on the ground fo 60 seconds because a lousy DS 😂 I take it and then just catch them again. why? Because I know I can catch them. It's funny to say the least because it's the Killer's who are so entitled. I hardly complain about anything but you can clearly see the last nerfs etc were towards survivors. It was already easy as killer, and it's even easier now since they edited the maps.
Exactly. They dont want to acknowledge as just an anti tunnel perk because they'll have to explain every usage of what you just mentioned, even though they designed it as such.
Lets just ignore the fact that the ultra rare add-ons are more worthy of brown tier.
Because it destroys the flow of the game and removes all momentum you have gained.
MOM had the same issue. You could be snowballing with one survivor constantly hooked, but when you are about to down one that you found out of position MOM activated allowing them to get to a safe area and waste your time.
BOOM momentum gone and the survivors have had time to spread out and work on gens.
I try to knock out someone’s DS early so I don’t have to deal with it after their 2nd hook so I can just tunnel them out of the game.
Maybe this
That just makes it worse. If they honestly think this perk is how the game should be and that it's fair then they're actually worse developers than I thought.
@FootMan2893
I personally don't run DS. Im just a huge Micheal fan. I don't really know the issues with it since I never run it. I'm also a solo. Playing for 3 yrs. I just never cared for the perk.
The problem is that it's designed as a defensive perk that gets abused in an offensive way. Where as the perk SHOULD be used to actually prevent tunneling the perk is instead used by optimal survivors as a 60 second shield. Same with Borrowed Time, but DS is far worse. If the killer downs the survivor and picks them up then they'll get hit with it. If they slug them then that's either 60 seconds the killer has to wait out or a relatively free pickup for their team. Another option is diving into a locker forcing the killer to either leave you alone or eat the DS without being able to slug.
When I mean offensively they can do things like freely dive to save a hooked person because they're protected, so the killer can't punish nor stop them. They can just immediately hop on a generator near a locker. A generator takes 80 seconds for an unbuffed solo survivor complete. That's 75% of a fresh generators progress bar that they can repair for with almost no fear of the killer, all the way down to fully protected if a locker is nearby to prevent slugging. And if the killer doesn't eat it they can pull this atleast 2 times per match per person with DS.