Why do Exhaustion add ons even exist anymore?
Exhaustion add ons came into the game when the time of recovering exhaustion while running still existed.
Now exhaustion doesn't recover when running so why do they even still exist? Clowns spam their bottles until you're exhausted and Huntresses melee range you with hatchets until you're exhausted.
It's poor game design
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Because Survivors don't need to use their Exhaustion perk to win and should be able to survive without it. Sorry that you can't use your Dead Hard every game. Doctor should get his back and Demogorgon's should be buffed.
To be fair, it is one of his strongest Add Ons, if not the strongest. Which does not speak for his Add Ons.
@Topic:
Yep, they should be removed. They are outdated and were not changed, it does not matter if that Huntress has Berus Toxin or the Green Add On, both are the same, I will not stop running in a chase so I will never get back my Exhaustion. And 3k BP and often in Bloodwebs to counter strong Perks? Nah.
I really hope they will be changed/removed, eventually.
I don't see the problem. Things in this game have counters... as they should. It's not like every killer has an add on that counters exhaustion perks or even the ones that do use them every game. And if they did then that would tell you something about the balance of the game. Sometimes your perks aren't going to get full value just like if you bring self care and/or a med kit and the killer is Plague. Those things will likely not be getting used very much in that match. But does that mean Plague is too good? Nah.
You answered the question yourself. Perks take priority because they can appear in every match.
Basically you can balance around the assumption that each player will have 4 perks equipped. But you can't balance around the assumption that everyone will have an item or 2 addons equipped ect. Especially when it comes to higher tier addons.
This means that for perks, they can be strong since they only need to be equally strong relative to each other in order to be balanced.
However since addons don't appear in every game, that means they need to balance addons relative to not having addons. Thus if an addon is strong then either the Killer will be too strong with the addon or too weak if they take out the addon.
Perks don't have this issue since the only reason to unequip a perk is either to equip a different perk or to give yourself a challenge. Thus the overall power budget remains consistent.
But addons are often unequipped simply to avoid using them.
Moris have the same problem but much worse due to being an offering slot, which is why nerfing them to the point of being borderline useless is the best fix rather than smaller nerfs.
I dont see the logic behind that at all. Its way more simple to my eyes.
If Item 1 (perk) is present and Item 2 (counter add-on) is absent, or vice versa, then is whatever.
If Item 1 and 2 are present, the side that "invested more" should take priority. Its only fair. The "cost" of a perk is a one-time purchase and the slot, the "cost" of an add-on is both of those as well as acquiring said add-on again afterwards (or using one from your inventory, which is the same situation).
Who said it was Dead Hard? Dead Hard is becoming worse and worse every day. Even for distance.
A single add on of common rarity deactivating a perk for pretty much the whole game is not fun for anyone
EDIT: Doctor doesn't need his back. Iridescent King with all of those afflictions as well as counter clockwise skill checks is strong enough already.
I should know. I main him
Learn to play careful and avoid killer?
I do this all the time, I don't try to get chased. But when I do and they have this add on, they continue chasing me until I'm down. Then I get hooked, unhooked, healed and rinse and repeat.
Imagine thinking that by using an exhaustion addon, killers are bad.
I didn't say that but keep using assumptions pal.
That'll get you far in life
I love the way some get bent out of shape whenever someone even remotely suggests something that would nerf killers. Lol
It has became a joke at this point.
Ikr.
Do they even play survivor?
Half of the community on the forums only play one side like smh
Exhaustion add-ons still work as intended to prevent any exhaustion perks from being activated in chase or slightly prior, regardless of how exhaustion currently is and used to be.
I wasnt saying they were bugged or not working as intended.
I'm saying that they were introduced because of exhaustion recovering while running. Now that that's gone, these add ons are just dumb. They essentially deactivate a perk for the entirety of the game
Did I say you said that? My previous comment explains what I mean. The add-ons are supposed to do that. You can bring Vigil or not, or walk and stealth until you have it again. When hit by exhaustion in a chase, you just need to adapt without it.
My stance on it is:
Exhaustion addons are ok to have but only on a select few killers.
It mainly just means you have to use exhaustion perks early and even as someone who loves Dead hard its fine that a huntress who lands hatches disables it it on some games as its my fault for letting her get her hatchet hits(Or clown with his bottles).
Ultimately it adds variety and forces survivors to change their play-style(use the perk earlier then normal) which is part of the the original game design philosophy that the survivors are all the same because the killer dictates the survivor's game-play.
This discussion is amusing.
Bookmarked.
Oh, and for the topic, if exhaustion add-ons really give you so much trouble, maybe you should consider a thing called, and I know it is unprecedented for a survivor-main, adapting. You know, that thing every time killers bring up an issue or a concern, survivor-mains always tell them to do, but in reality never actually bother doing themselves when they should.
Vigil won't do anything at all in a chase.
I can't stealth in a chase
Because a Huntress catching me in a deadzone when I was doing an unsafe gen and melee range hatcheting me so I'm exhausted into a M1 and down.
Clearly I have to adapt
If it was so unsafe, why were you there in the first place?
You were caught with your pants down and you were punished. There's nothing wrong with that.
Do you rest while you are running? Don't you need to stop running to cool down?
Maybe because unsafe generators exist and the survivors goal is to do generators?
Well done. You finally realised that exhaustion got changed
In this situation how a exhaustion perk would make any difference ? It's a deadzone versus a Huntress, one exhaustion that could help is Sprint Burst to find a safe zone.
Dead Hard can too y'know?
If Dead Hard would help you into a pallet/vault then it isn't a deadzone so even without DH you have the same pallet/vault. If you are saying you can evade a hit with DH and then find a loop or something, 360's should do the same, or dodging hatches as you are against a Huntress (you have a Sprint burst when hit so is plenty of time to get distance even if she M2 you)
The only exhaustion add-on that bothers me is Clown's. It's dumb that you get exhausted just running through the gas. Anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together can hit your with the gas. Huntress, at least, requires some skill to hit you. IMO Clown's exhaust add-ons should work like Pinky Finger, you should have to get direct bottle hits for it to work.
But in contrast the time it gives exhaustion is balanced (15 seconds IIRC) I say give 20 seconds to green add-on on Huntress and just rework the brown one as it's not a necessary thing to have 2 exhaustion add-ons.
No it's still dumb that you get exhausted just from the gas. It's almost impossible to avoid the gas consistently. If he had to hit you with the bottle it would be balanced because then there is at least some skill-reward for the Clown.
Also Berus Toxin is just fine the way it is. Being a 110 killer it's the best counter to Dead Hard, and it's cheap. Venomous Concoction should be reworked because 90 seconds is just overkill. It should inflict Oblivious for like 30 seconds instead.
there are things like deadhard and sprint burst that even the bush hiding claudettes use. if you're exhausted before you can deadhard, sprintburst, or even headon.. the perks aee useless. you have to think of it in a chase, and not in a chase. like, "if i see the feng has lithe, and i have an exhaustion hatchet. if i hit her before she vaults, she wont have speed." when you think about perks like headon, clowns gas goes into the locker so you cant use it, which is a tad op. not to mention that the basis of almost every survivour running at least ONE exhaustion perk in my games, (1-5), im used to killers like huntress or clowns running ehaustion addons. it also matters on what perks your team, and the killer is usong, also who the killer is.
Yes because to some it is baffling that there are still people who cry for killer nerfs when the game is so easy and stacked for survivor.
@Endstille
There is a big difference between someone making a balancing suggestion and "crying for a nerf".
All I am saying is it doesn't help your case when the automatic reply is mocking the suggestion by stating that everyone wants to see killers get nerfed which isn't what the OP said.
You can feel however you want about it, but at this point some of those replies have become a meme and aren't taken serious. Not every suggestion that has balancing ideas means it is a bad thing for the game.
I was just saying the time of exhaustion it gives is good (enough to use in a chase but not too long for multiple chases) the way it is applied I can see been changed. As for the Huntress one of them needs to go I only suggested the brown one because it has been asked for on this thread.
If you get hit with a hatched before you use Sprint Burst you didn't run and wasn't trying to use it, if you get hit while running your speed boost continues and nothing happened.
I agree with op, the exhaustion add-ons at least need to be tweaked. Before the nerfs to exhaustion perks this add-ons would simply delay the exhaustion perk by 30 or 60 seconds depending on the rarity.
Now they straight up disable them permanently until the chase is over regardless of rarity. Either the rarity of these add-ons need to increase or the wording needs to change such as " disable exhaustion for 30 seconds but it comes back whether or not survivor is running".
It's definitely an overlooked factor when the exhaustion effect got nerfed.
Oblivious would be useless on Huntress because of her 45 meters radius lullaby.
How can you even say that 360ing is a valid argument? Every killer with a brain waits for them :P
Bad Huntress players will literally go to you melee range and use a hatchet and you're exhausted.
Huntress's should require more skill, like hitting from a distance or something. Same can be said for Iri Head
Doctor’s was a very rare add-on and you had to get the Survivors to tier 3. It was a strong effect on a high rarity add-on. Dead Hard was just an example. You can replace it with any other Exhaustion perk.
Counter-clockwise skill checks are also not that useful unless your entire build is dedicated to skill checks or you’re up against Survivors that can’t hit skill checks. Most Survivors ignore it or they miss only one before realizing what’s happening. If you have Lullaby, then they know to expect quieter skill checks and if they do miss, then that’s the perk doing its job, not the add-on. Sorry that I’m trying to make his add-on useful against all Survivors again.
Doctor is amazing. Wdym?
Doctor is my 2nd main behind Freddy. I use Dying Light, Whispers, Pop and Overcharge. Usually ends in 3ks and 4ks. Against a good team I get a 2k.
Doctor doesn't need exhaustion add ons, he's oppressive enough
I’m not talking about Doctor himself. I agree that he is a great Killer. I main Doctor too. I’m talking about his add-on and it not being as useful as it sounds, especially for a rare add-on.
I also never said you were bad with him. I only said his add-on was not that useful and it should get its Exhaustion back. Why are you so afraid to discuss that? Do you like rare add-ons that aren’t useful?
And the new oni perk.
That's not how that works.
The whole point of a power budget is to ensure that the strength of both sides are the same regardless of your load out choice.
The investment of blood points doesn't matter for the purposes of power budgeting, because blood points don't exist within the match, only between matches.
The real cost is the slot used to equip it. In other words the cost of equipping a perk isn't the one time cost, but rather the cost is not equipping any other perk in the game in that slot and nothing else (unless the perk/addon has a downside like OoO does)
Since the entire goal of a power budget is to ensure a consistent level of strength, that means the power budget of an item that sometimes will be unused with no replacement by design is ideally 0.
Basically, every game you win because of an addon is a game you won because you simply were given a temporary handicap for that game. It's just an unfair advantage, because the other side doesn't have it.
When they DO have the same advantage, aka: both Survivors and Killers are bringing addons and tools of the same rarity. Then it evens out and it's fine. This is why perks are fine, since everyone on both sides is running them. But when only one side has them it means they game is unbalanced in their favor before the game has even begun.
But his rare add ons are useful.
Obedience- Takes longer to snap out of it and increases chances of counter clockwise skill checks
Discipline- Increases madness inflicted by shock therapy and survivors perceive the red stain and TR for x amount of seconds
Restraint- Survivor auras are shown for x seconds when their madness increases and increases duration of Illusionary Doctors, the doctor sees the auras of the illusions
Calm- Increases TR when Static Blast is ready and decreases TR when Static Blast is on cool down and survivors gain a chance of hearing the TR for x seconds
Iridescent King - Shock Therapy and Static Blast cause the survivor to gain a random affliction from the following list
Iridescent Order - Illusionary pallets
Iridescent Restraint - Increases duration of Illusionary Doctors
Iridescent Calm- Survivors hear a constant distant heartbeat
Iridescent Discipline- Survivors perceive the red stain when being chased
Iridescent Obediance - Skill checks turn counter clockwise
And lastly Iridescent Queen- All survivors struck by Shock Therapy or Static Blast acquire a Static Charge. Any time a survivor is within 4 meters if another survivor carrying Static Charge, The survivor receives a shock with identical effects as the Shock therapy ability.
All of these add ons are super oppressive with the right build. He does not need exhaustion on top of all these
That'd be legitimately game-breaking.
Not really. It would actually counter people 99ing sprint burst so maybe there will be more usage out of the different exhaustion perks (I think SB is currently the best, so anything that encourages diversity is a plus).
That's also one less perk slot for a meta perk for a mediocre trade off. Idk why you'd be opposed to this.
Agreed completely.
Everybody: Exhaustion addons? Only Huntress and Clown does have them.
Demo:
:,)
Simply because you're complaining about them.
Yeah imagine a killer perk you could turn off or avoid for the entire match... survivors would be so OP
Is it? I alway's run Cheap Gin Bottle, and Cigar Box. Alway's grabbing those two from bloodweb's when they appear, and if I don't have those then I'm running; Sticky Soda Bottle, Garish Make-up Kit, Bottle Of Chloroform, or VHS Porn. Anything else just picks up dust in my inventory. Then again I alway's bait exhaustion perks first anyway's, so I don't need the add-on's for them.
Like I would say get rid of them because they are useless, and then it's just one less thing spawning my bloodweb when I want something good.