So are the dev's officially coming out as survivor sided?
If I'm understanding this correctly by their own responses:
They don't think Gen speed has any issues. They don't think survivors have any balance problems at all. They're actually planning on FURTHER buffing survivors by looking at non meta perks. And the funniest bit is they're going to further nerf killer by nerfing the already very weak percentage slow down perks like dying light, thana, ect.
BHVR is legitimately biased as ######### and they're not evening trying to hide it.
EDIT: For people who read and claim that there was no mention of slow down perks getting nerfed here is the segment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Aoe1H282oY&feature=youtu.be&t=1649
For those of you who just want to read and not listen to the whole segment: Will other slow down perks see changes as well? If we take for example a game where we have a lot of slow down perks, the gameplay ends up feeling kinda stale because they spend a lot of time just M1ing on the generators. For example, if you have somebody running the old Ruin, Pop Goes the Weasel, Dying Light, and Thanataphobia, making any progress on generators is painfully slow. Our goal over time is to make these perks less obnoxious when you run them together, but individually we want them to still be useful.
With other lines they mentioned further in the Q&A their goal is to remove builds specifically focused on slowing down gens and limit killers to probably 1, MAYBE 2 slow down perks at a time max. Their agenda is entirely based on making sure survivors spend the least amount of time possible holding M1 on a gen with no regard to how lightning fast matches negatively affect killer. Even though statistically running those perks won't do much and requires a ######### ton of effort to get everything stacked, it's still anti fun for the survivor so that sort of build isn't ok.
Comments
You are objectively wrong. We got a very strong incentive to do bones two chapters ago with the Stranger Things DLC giving Inner Strength. I didn't hear a SINGLE Killer complain about it
They are also looking to nerf toolboxes. You guys have to get over yourself. Of my last 25 matches at red ranks, I've had only 7 escapes. 4 of them came in one match where I tried a new build and strategy where I made a ton of mistakes.
Killer is harder than survivor, but not hard to play. The problem with most of the whining is that too many killers don't know how to adapt, they don't keep gen pressure in mind, and they zero in on the chase over all else.
Thats because bones still aren’t done lol
I take it, it’s a great perk. I do my fair share of bones. About 3 per game. Shame the other 3 survivors don’t.
Those numbers are poorly sourced and include matches with DC'ers, AFKers, and suicides
I just watched that video.. Wow, that's.. Wow.
We also know what future updates will come out as well. They literally said all of this ######### on stream and said what direction they want to take the game mechanics in. They're not balancing things out in the future, or at the very least they have 0 plans on it right now and won't do it until it becomes a major problem enough to destroy the killer playerbase.
And I hate to break it to ya but just because you get a paycheck to balance/design the game doesn't mean you "know what you're doing". They've made terrible decisions and have absolutely no clue what they're doing at all. The only thing in their eyes is catering to survivors for revenue.
I feel like a parrot at this point with how often I'm replying to similar questions. But I guess ya gotta work for a cause.
Toolboxes are NOT getting nerfed, atleast not definitively. They SAID they're looking at them, and looking for potential ways to make them more "fun". You can choose to interpret that as "We're going to nerf them", but I strong believe in taking that as "If by some chance we do change them we'll look for a way to make them mechanically different, maybe even add in a mini game."
They literally already said they're not only fine with 4-5 minute games but that's basically what they want out of DBD. What reason do they have to nerf toolboxes?
Also you lost my faith when you said gen pressure. Nice meme. Even I thought it was only a rare occurrence until I also started getting matches where literally just walking to a gen was enough time for ######### to fly. Chase a survivor? If they have safe pallets or strong loops god have mercy on the other gens cause those ######### things are gone.
The problem is, the statistics they use for it, do come from consoles AND pc players.. which is bullshit... console players do have the doctor addon for free, so some of the mentioned perks are obviously used in a higher percentage as for pc players...
What about Decisive strike, Borrowed Time, Dead Hard and all the other bullshit survivors do take in EVERY single game on PC ONLY?
Statistics, that are used on the way they need it, arent useful for a argumentation...
If that were true it would mean 80% of the entire playerbase plays mainly survivor, compared to 20% who play mainly killer. That would also mean 16.5% of all killers mains who ever played the game on steam have reached rank 1, compared to 7% of survivors. Almost 1/5 of all killers who ever played the game on PC have been rank 1? Hard to believe. So either the Steam statistics are wrong or you are throwing bullshit statistics around. Which may it be?...
I mean fine then they shouldn't add a second objective for survivors. They could make other adjustments to Hex Perks to not make them too weak though.
Who said they are making it less powerful? Just because it cant synergize with other slowdown perks doesn't make it a "nerf", it just means that they are changing the way the perk operates.
They're suvivor sided simple nerfing res rank killers even with old ruin we will got gen rushed I'm sorry but red rank suvivors are not stupid.....most times...
Because the perks as solo aren't good and in order to make them viable they're usually stacked with multiple others. By changing the perks so that there are mechanical limitations that prevent multiple from being used it's a hidden nerf as no one will use them by themselves. You only see things like thana on legion because it's really the only thing that synergizes with his kit, not because it's statistically good.
Not exactly worried about having your faith. Facts are facts. If you learn to focus more on the gens than individual survivors, you do better. The highly coordinated SWF is another thing all together. If all survivors played that well, this would be a huge issue. I got owned by one last night, but that was a 1 time match out of more than 20.
As for boxes, they will make them more fun, but likely address their speed.
Survivors spent 18 months getting nerfed. It was some of those nerfs, combined with the high propensity for crappy teams and camping killers, that pushed me into killer mode almost 2 years ago. To say they are survivor sided is short sighted and lacking memory.
It's because I remember how the game was and how hard killers had to fight both the survivors and the devs for changes that I think they're completely biased. I remember what launch was like and I'll never forget it. How long did it take, how many months of forum posts and feedback for them to start giving killers the buffs and survivors the nerfs that was needed? All the while spouting that ######### was "fine". Anytime I hear someone talk about survivors getting "nerfed" from way back when I immediately lose any interest in talking to that person.
If you think survivor was balanced a year or 2 ago and that those nerfs were wrong then you're delusional.
This... It can't be easy to balance the game for killers, SWF, and solo survivors. It really feels like they don't care to make things between solo and SWF all that even which is why by and large, I agree with a lot of killer opinions. Both understand what it's like to be 1 person against 4, which is what solo survivor often feels like.
Hey those ranks look like every match I play on Xbox
I never said the game is balanced. I said it is much better than it was. I also said survivors have been nerfed significantly, of which they have. Old DS, old healing, MoM (a fiasco from the start that never should have been added to the game), and several other things.
Killers are better off than what the whiners on this forum make it seem as well. There are lots of things that need to be addressed, but not so it tips balance. For instance, I'd like to see a perk to protect totems for a set amount of time similar to Corrupt Intervention.
The answer is in looking for things that do not cripple an entire bracket of survivors or killers. Gen time changes favor bad killer who hang out at lower ranks just to focus on camping and tunneling. That makes it harder to attract and keep new players and hurts the game as a whole. I'd rather see other, more creative ways, to help killers get more map pressure, not ways that assist lazy play styles.
You just basically said "I'm right, you're wrong. Shut up." and gave no logic behind your argument besides "you're a big dumb dumb".
"Killers are over performing"
Guess people who play killer are so good, they gotta get things nerfed so survivors can have their "fun"
Your idea wouldn't be bad at all if the whole point of this thread was about them being biased. As I said, they're survivor sided. They see NOTHING wrong with the current state of killers and if anything still see them as needing further nerfs/tuning. They've made it very clear that adding in perks or mechanics to buff the safety of hex totems is the last thing they'll ever do.
Also, I'm not against weeding out bad/lazy players. It's just that bad gen times hurt the majority of lower tier killers, and it also boosts the survivors as well. Who needs to learn anything skillful about survivor when you just hold M1 on some gens for a few minutes and escape? Maybe grab a dull totem or 2, and if you get unlucky, get found, and caught and die big whoop try again.
Clown has a cuddly bunny head in the rift. He is the personification of the killers today.
Agreed I’m a killer main and I do t think I bet heard them scream more nerfs for killers or say anything about to they do hear what they want to. They just said perks that slow down should not work all together which is why they changed ruin so pop won’t work on it also. It’s kinda sad they overlooked the changes that the devs said are going to survivors like they said over time there will be more stuff for survivors to do to escape.
You only noticed that after all these years? Lol.. Expect more nerf since on their last Q & A, They'll be nerfing more Slow Gen Perks like Thana, PGTW & Dying Light.. While they won't fix gen speed which are popping left and right on the red ranks right now before you could even find your first survivor or first hook as Killer..
Nerf ruin, okay whatever I'll just run cancer builds.
But CONTINUING to nerf killer perks without looking into other balance issues that'll just about draw the line for me. I dont give a - if the next killer is jesus wielding a spiked dildo, not buying anymore stuff
Honestly, just run noed. If you get gen rushed, ez win.
FFS, the devs are not survivor-sided
If they were survivor-sided we'd still be in the dark days. We'd still have true-infinites and a host of other BS things the survivors used to be able to do.
I'm not saying they're perfect, but if you look at this game in the long term like I have, they're going in the right direction.
Hell even further, imagine thinking rank is anything other than a half ass matchmaking tool. Haha
-Balanced landing was changed, it had an extra affect other exhaustion perks didnt.
-Insta heals may not be insta full heals, but are still just as strong at extending chases
-EGC was not a killer buff. It was a game ender for both sides, as standoffs had become too common to ignore. On both sides.
-DS is still useful as something other than a tunneling prevention perk.
The ONLY killer "buff" on there that's actually correct, is Freddy.
It's easy to see full balance when looking from one side of the fence.
"Random content creator"
"Uses Tru3"
As if we didnt know who it would be when you said random content creator.
Funny thing is that players know much more better about the game than the devs itself but im not surprised though the guy who is responsible for ruin change he still was thinking that perk leader affect gens😅 i hope re resistance going to be good and became a real competition to dbd so devs have to really take the job serious and working hard to keep this game alive.
Making necessary changes to keep the game in a functional state does not make them neutral. And going from making a ######### ton of horrible balance decisions to slight under a ######### ton of horrible balance decisions doesn't suddenly mean they're no longer making horrible balance decisions.
Um, game was in a functional state during The Last Breath. I think you need to stop misusing the word until you understand what it actually means. "Broken" means it can't be played at all - and it was most definitely playable.
I also don't recall saying they were perfect. I said they make a lot of questionable decisions. And when those decisions were badly made, they've backtracked as necessary.
So to sit here and accuse them of survivor bias just doesn't fly with me because I'm not seeing. And I come to you from the perspective of somebody who has played this game 75% of the time AS A KILLER.
Frankly, I think many of my fellow killer's need to stop accepting Tru3's word's as the gospel because he's so goddamn close the subject matter, he's ceased seeing the forest from the trees. While he's good at the game, he has so many damned mental shackles on himself about how the game should be played that it's become impossible to take him seriously anymore.
What I don't understand is where was the gen speed complaint 2 years ago? It's been more or less the same since I started playing and I only started hearing complaints about when EGC was added. As mentioned before recent patches have been trades. A perk that could possibly make one map slightly harder for killers to down a survivor on got nerfed across the board. A perk that literally only affected players with bad computers or no experience got changed to affect everyone evenly. An add-on that could extend a chase 2 health states got changed. A killer that could use a rediculous combination of add-ons to make any survivor have no chance of escaping had add-ons nerfed. Moves and countermoves.
That's not a testament to the difficulty level of either side. That's a testament of how bad the ranking system is.
Don't need a perk when I can just mori you, lol.
Yeah, I agree. The map reworks could take months if not years. I do not see them doing more than 2-3 a year at best. Which really makes me wonder how they plan to incorporate the new killer since I'm pretty sure the smash locations are still only on the new map. Unless they do a touch up to them all really fast before actually reworking them maybe. Who knows.
You mean during the same era as infinites on just about every map, the rise of literally unbeatable SWF teams, insta blind flashlights, and survivors clearing maps of all hooks then body blocking to prevent anyone from dying? Legit the worst era in dbd history besides beta? I mean sure, I could press a button to queue up and get into a match, and I could "play" it, but that doesn't mean it was even remotely playable.
I listen to very little of what he actually says. I use his GAMEPLAY though as reference material because realistically as someone who plays the game for a living he gets in a hell of a lot more hours than I can which makes good study material for when I'm not playing. Otherwise though he's the type of person to fail chase mechanics hard and start ranting on with "These survivors are so damn optimal. Literally top 0.5% of the playerbase".
Same thing with Otz. I think he's a really nice person and he can be a very damn good killer, but then you have cases like him running around with new ruin on PTB, seeing a gen regress for like 2 seconds, and then saying "Wow, Ruin is doing so much for us this game. Getting so much value." in a completely serious non ironic manner.He's also prone to playing by the survivor handbook which I think is so damn stupid.
Because metas change and people grow. Early years saw survivors running the map a hell of a lot more. "brawling" the killer so to speak with much stronger mechanics like the looping which had things like pallet vacuums and much stronger god loops or infinites. Altruism was also different as a lot more people did things like sabotaging hooks, body blocking, spamming insta blind flash lights, ect.
Basically people focused more on fighting the killer and didn't figure out how quickly gens could be done until all of those previously strong tactics had been toned down like they should've been.
Who cares why BL was changed? It's still a buff for killers since survivors can't use it to extend chases against M1 killers as much as before. The developers wouldn't change BL if they were survivor mains.
Instaheals provide more counterplay for the killer, and could've been left in a broke state if the developers didn't care about killers.
As we all know, EGC is extremely favorable for the killer, and finding the hatch is pretty easy once it's spawned in. All you have to do is slug, find the hatch, hook near the hatch, and use the sacrifice animation to reach the hatch before the last survivor does. This effectively, approximately 84% of the time, guarantees the killer gets a 4K every time they get a 3K. The only thing saving that survivor is if they get an indoor map or hope geometry is against the killer's favor. Developers, again, added a mechanic that makes 3Ks into 4Ks just to end the game.
About DS, if the developers didn't care about killers, they would've left it in its original broken state. However, again, you don't look at that, and only focus on the part you wanna see. I know DS can be strong, but unlike before, it has way more counterplay. You have to take everything into consideration of you want to get an accurate view of balance.
Overall, the developers aren't biased at all, they will make changes where they see fit. Just because X got changed doesn't automatically mean they are Y biased. If you take a look into the patch notes and see everything, you would understand my opinion better.
I'm willing to argue this further, since I'm trying to break the stereotype that developers are survivor biased.
I've said this 1000 times and I'll say it again. Making necessary changes to the game is not the same as normal balance. If those changes weren't made killer would've been/remained unplayable. In this case though with the removal of Ruin killer is still very much playable, it's just a decent bit weaker overall. The nerf probably won't affect higher end killers much for killers who were already weak and relied on slow games to even function properly this change is death.
They can afford that. And I'm not making them out to be some cliche movie villains who just want to destroy killer because they can. Their goals are very clear, which is to say survivors are the cash cow of the game and how they keep the lights on. I've also said this before but I don't think they're terrible people for looking at it from a business perspective, I just think they're bad developers.
Also you should read the patch notes yourself. They've directly stated, multiple times in fact, that the reason for nerfing Ruin was because it negatively affected new survivors who somehow couldn't hit skillchecks or find bright glowing totems.
I'd considered all infinites to be exploits and this changing them ISN'T buffing the killer role as it is removing something that shouldn't have been in the game to begin with.
If something can make the game unwinnable for either roll(Perma hook sabotage/Pre nerf BNP) then its an exploit.
If something makes the game much harder but still winnable(Like god loops/keys sense killers can still beat those or iri heads/mories sense survivors can still escape against these) then they aren't exploits.
Making it so they can't work together is a nerf because it's goal is to make something not viable. Plus they have already proven that they mean to nerf things to make synergies not viable with hex ruin and pop. They said they wanted to make ruin and pop to not synergize and so they ruined ruin to make that happen. Based on history I have no hour hope for the devs to get it right.
That’s not even close but okay. I did give logic behind my argument, but if you wanna think that then go ahead. Sure some parts what I said wasn’t too nice but you really shouldn’t be talking cause you’re doing the same thing.
Delusional killers always play the victim, good to see nothing's changed. You're bad
Yep, they are so survivor sided it hurts. Literally everything they have done has been for the excuse of 'fun', but its always been for survivor 'fun'. Killers are just glorified punching bags for survivors to have 'fun' with.
The only point you made is that you personally don't like protecting every single gen, and everything else was you telling me how it should be with no argument or logic to back up anything you said.
Statistically speaking, more of the Survivor nerfs (Such as Balanced Landing, Mettle of Man, Borrowed Time, instaheals, instablinds) have been necessary changes because they were broken as hell. These perks either created INSANELY unfair scenarios (Infinite loops on Haddonfield, effectively a free second hit, rescue invulnerability) or were just horribly exploitable to the point of negating killer efforts (Downed? Boom, instantly back up at full health. Pick up a survivor? Instant save.). The devs thought these mechanics were entirely fair and balanced until the community outrage was getting excessive.
Contrast the killer nerfs, which have been mainly desired changes because four times as many people got a voice. The Nurse, Pig, and Spirit nerfs, the Oni getting a significant nerf one week after release, the Doctor rework (which they outright stated was not because he was underperforming, but because he was annoying to play against for survivors).
One can also examine the fact that the majority of the developers are still in double-digit ranks as both Killer and Survivors; high-tier play is literally not something they experience.
Lastly, one can clearly see the bias in various statements the developers have said, such as suggesting Killers "just let farther generators go", "Try watching a streamer to get more skilled", or the infamous "Go play Civilization" statements.