dastaeryk
dastaeryk
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@go1gotha said:
The main killers constantly write that this is the only killer that can resist 4 people in "swf", so it does not need to be changed. So let's not change anything and let the spirit be present only in such a lobby.
I am a solo survivor and about a quarter of the time in the game a killer.
Do you know how the solo game for the whole team ends against the spirit in about 8-9 / 10 games? Guess for yourself. And in the last few months she comes across very often, this is not even the first ranks, as a rule I am a permanent resident on the border between red and purple.
The last days, all I want to do when I hear the sound of a vacuum cleaner and quack-quack at the beginning of the game is to get up and go make tea, because I have already gone through all this a hundred times.
They want you to play In team, then play in team. It does have nothing to share with spirit undeserved nerf
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@SteelDragon said:
at red ranks as survivor you can die and still pip, at least black pip most of the time as long as you where not a Dwight in a locker or get moried instantly. FOR KILLER. a 2k AT BEST IN A PERFECT SCENERIO is a black pip, most of the time it's a de pip. even getting some 3k's is a depip with some killers/gate keeper emblem being ENTIRELY up to the survivors due to how fast gens go at red ranks. with killers like plague and billy you are at a disadvantage with the chaser emblem, so not only is your gatekeeper emblem not gonna be high more than likely BUT your chaser emblem will be low to if you play these 2 killers. which means a "balanced 2k 2 escape average" is not being able to rank up in red rank and will probably de rank. for some other killers LIKE SPIRIT WHO CAN GET IRIDESCENT CHASER, even then 3k is usually a black pip and most of the time you NEED A 4K TO PIP AS KILLER. you DON'T need to escape as survivor to pip. so this 2 kills 2 escape balance is bad until AT THE VERY LEAST you change how difficult it is to pip in red ranks
Right. They are incoherent, let's stop playing
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@horsegod386 said:
I don't understand, if any killer has some sort of "edge" over the survivor, instead of adapting and learning counter play for said killer, everyone cries for nurse, I'm a survivor main myself and while spirit is infuriating I have never once felt like she was "unfair" or "impossible to counter" maybe if everyone in the community grew a pair and learned counter-play to a killer instead of calling for nerfs because the killer isn't a basic m1 killer.
Thanks for sharing your honest thoughts. We would like to see more support for this. She is not unfair, her power can be misleading a lot. Remove prayer beads and its fine
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@BBQnDemogorgon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/829491#Comment_829491
Why doesn't it seem to work like that the other way around?
You guys often say you're going to monitor stats and keep an eye out when people say something is too weak like Legion & Bubba.
Why not buff them without overall data saying it needs it like Nurse changes?
They make numbers speak in their favor, when they need a rationale for what they do.
Its way too risky to admit that they have to follow the vast majority of survivors crying, since they must be 4 for each killer.
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@Fibijean said:
That data is over 7 months old. Spirit may not have become an issue until recently. And Nurse changes were not made on the basis of her killrate.
Also, they said in the latest stream that they were thinking of doing another one of those statistical posts soon, so we have that to look forward to.
Why spirit should have become an issue just recently? She has been the same till the beginning.
Oh I know why, because now that you got nurse nerfed you start looking for the next "sweaty" killer to destroy.
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@Peanits said:
Those stats did not consider rank. If you took a look at the Nurse before at all ranks, she was the weakest killer by a large margin- something I think we can all agree was not the case. Meanwhile, if you were to check her stats in red ranks on PC, you'd see that she would average more than three kills per match. This is why we don't balance based on data alone, and also why we urge you not to draw conclusions from those stats.
No, we can not agree. Some of her addons were too much, but not her.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
If someone is a godlike Leatherface, this will not make Leatherface get nerfed. If certain individuals are good with a Killer, this does not mean that the Killer is overperforming.
But Spirit is really a Killer which does not need that much effort to be played, but has a huge outcome. I would call that overperforming, when you just have to have ears. Because, I have ears.
Why you should be entitled to say that playing spirit does not take much effort? Are you a main killer who played her consistently or its just your gut feeling?
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@vossler25 said:
Gens can be done in 3 minutes flat especially when you have a good survivor for chases, and the shack of ending killer careers, I'm speaking as a survivor, 3 minute games are not fun, and I end up having to half sabotage the game to at least give killers a chance by simply not repairing even if killer is on someone else so it at least last 5 minutes and ofcourse much longer cause the killer should have hooked by then, for survivors it's always business as usual, no matter what, spirit and nurse isn't the answer cause 1) they getting nerfed but 2) they are easy to counter if you aren't stupid, their own power is what causes them to lose if a survivor knows how and it really is easy and nurse has been entirely run into the ground now, please, fix the god damn gens, that's all I want, I want longer games not ones that are laughable jokes, and some are asking for Mori nerfs, it's all a killer has to have a chance
TlDR: read it or move on
Respect, bro.
This is the truth to be said. Plain 3 mins if not 2 sometimes is not funny for anybody.
Plus, all that complaining for killers with a different gameplay. Learn it, counter it.
Really appreciate your post, thanks
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@DarkGGhost said:
So they want to nerf spirt ( and they do it as they do it with the nurse) but what about killers that have less than 2 kills overall and /or you don't see them very often. Will they buff them soon or will they let them in the dark? Yes i know they want to buff Doc but this Doc we have right now it suppose to be a stronger version.
Note this Doc was when devs try to "break" the game.
No! If u use spirit are noob, if you can't use trapper you are more noob. Everybody complains of that but nobody acknowledges this truth bro.
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@underlord99 said:
Can we stop talking about spirit getting "nerfed"? or how she doesn't need one , the developers literally have data showing that she is over-performing. Her getting tweaked wont make her unplayable, if anything it will just make her skill ceiling higher.
And another thing, people keep comparing her getting nerfed to Nurses rework. Nurse is perfectly fine now! the only difference is Nurse actually takes skill now! You cant just throw on omega blink addons and clap a 4 man SWF anymore.
I bet you are the same person who cries about insta heals aren't you?
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@thesuicidefox said:
Everyone is fighting over the Spirit. Is she balanced? Over powered? Fun? Not fun? Does she have counter play?
At the end of the day all this arguing is moot. BHVR has already stated that their data shows she is over performing and that changes are coming. Whatever we think about Spirit in her current state doesn't matter. The data is telling the devs she needs to be changed, meaning that she likely would have received changes even if literally no one complained about her.
Whether you believe she is or isn't in need of a change at this point is irrelevant. Trying to prove anything to anyone is irrelevant (especially since no one seems willing to compromise or even acknowledge they could be wrong). Even if somehow everyone on one side jumped ship to the other, it won't make any difference because she will still be changed. The only difference our opinions make at the end of the day is how expedient the devs are with the changes. Had no one ever complained, it would still happen just probably not as quickly.
The fighting needs to stop. We need to turn our attention to BHVR and get them to be more transparent about the situation. We need to know exactly what their telemetry shows. We need to know what issues THEY have identified in regards to the Spirit. We need to know what their goals are for the future of the character. Too often they don't inform us of their plans until the changes have already been made, at which point our opinions don't matter. Things will happen as they see fit, and the only hope we have is to make slight suggestions here and there.
I don't want a repeat of Nurse or Legion or MOM (though IMO Nurse changes were good but I digress). I want the devs to openly discuss this with us because this is a seriously important issues. We, as a community, need to put our foot down and say "TELL US" because if we don't and continue to argue the end result will (probably) be bad. Now I'm not trying to completely ######### on the devs here. They did an amazing job with Freddy and DS, in my opinion. But we had no idea what they were planning until it was already time for the relaunch. They even said they are surprised by our reactions sometimes. Well if you guys were more open with us about your plans, you wouldn't be so surprised and everyone gets a better deal (including you).
I'm not asking the devs to give us specific details about what they intend to do. I'm asking them to keep us in the loop so they don't go off the rails. I understand 1000% why it is generally a bad idea to give behind-the-scenes info like this in game dev, but at this point for this topic I think it would be more beneficial than harmful.
I don't care what you think about Spirit in her current state. Please don't come in here with those arguments. I'm honestly done with it. We need unity here, and we need the devs to support the community going forward with this issue.
@Peanits @not_queen @McLean
Agree.
One important point is: which data the dev are looking at and How they interpret it - yes, all data need to be interpreted and it makes a huge difference in the outcome decision.
Let us know why they say a rework is needed, and what will impact.
Not like nurse, which should have just been an addon rework which then became a rework of her base power. Not again, BHVR
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@MsFrizby93 said:
And I’ll just burn through my stock of SM and BW as Myers give y’all something to really moan and complain about.
same with Iri hatchets gg ez
Gg bro.
Complain about her? Well give you more to complain about...
Till devs nerf all killers, so we will happily leave this game and those damn swf will queue 4h for a single game. Take that
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@Hoodied said:
My FPS is dropping so much in both the lobby and game now, literally it drops so much that when I try to swing I literally lose who I was swinging at cause my FPS dropped
Its not fun at all to play killer after this hotpatch at all
I had a match in which killer power broke and could not be used anymore. Another one in which I could not kick gens or place traps. I mean ######### guys, won't play this game anymore it's getting just fck boring
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@lunaticlifter said:
So as someone who play both sides but main killer, this is my opinion about the balance... Spirit is annoying to play against and not fun, Spirit stomps solo players, but it's fair against those tryhard swf... the problem is that not everybody play in swf( i play everytime solo as example) and not every swf is optimal.. so as we know Spirit is getting changed wich is fine.. so this is how i would nerf swf... what are the strongest survivors perk? If you play solo empathy, bond, alert, spine chill are amazing, but all these perks are pointless if you play with vocal chat, so everybody in swf run decisive, adrenaline, dh, bt etc... wich are the strongest one? decisive and adrenaline.. oh AdReNAliNE rEwardS YoU FOR DOInG GeNs!!.. as it was hard if you play optimal in common... and actually rewards the one who is getting chased.. about decisive it slows down your momentum if you get fast hooks, and if you go into a locker you get 1 minute of god mode, you can't even slug to counter the perk ..don't tell me to not tunnel, because everytime the ds guy wants my attention... we will get also map reworks wich will also help, but i don't think it will be enough.
so these are my ideas
*adrenaline passive heals you in 5 seconds and doesn't give you free sprint burst or free unbreakable..
*decisive if you hook another survivor rather than the last one you hooked, ds is cancelled, if you go into a locker it becomes temporarily unactive(makes sense no if you should stab the killer with something you find on the ground?)
i think these changes would slightly nerf swf, and would be pretty healthy for the game, and rahter than complain we will see more solo players running non meta perks, until they will become actually meta. Swf will still run those perks because they are still amazing.. what do you think?
Annoying does not mean that she needs a rework. Some ppl are annoyed by the doctor, now let's be honest doctor is ######### tier, should we nerf it bc of this?
#NONERFSPIRIT movement raise your voice lol
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@[Deleted User] said:
If the Spirit isn't over performing then prove it to us. Play someone like trapper for 100 games and get the same kill rate.
Be the one to prove spirit is OP firstly. You can't blame somebody for not providing stats and then you do the same.
People crying for it has zero value
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@beatddb said:
Now that some "changes" are coming to her, we all know this means a nerf; and, in my opinion, an unnecessary one.
The Spirit was created as a mindgame killer, and now a lot of people is complaining just about that, saying stuff like "no counterplay", "no skill", "50/50 chances", etc.
I've played with her for a long time, and I can say without a doubt that, in fact, she does have A LOT of counterplay: slow vaulting back after a quick vault, walking in opposite directions, lead scratch marks to other way, etc. Any succesfull mindgame you pull on her will cause the killer a very big time waste. And contrary to popular belief, pulling one is not hard.
You are not "guessing" when playing against her, or rather: you SHOULDN'T be guessing when playing against her. Use your brain, think of ways to trick her and you'll see how much you improve.
I recommend using spine chill (inb4 the "i shouldnt be using a perk just for one killer" outcry), that one single perk tells you when she's phasing making your life ten times easier.
Another thing I want to talk about is that I don't think she's "overperforming", do devs know when players die after trying or if they just give up mid-game? Because a lot of people do instead of getting good and unpredictable.
If I had to guess, I'd say that people don't like facing Spirit because you don't loop her on a conventional way (W around a pallet), but she can still be "looped".
I've faced her on purple ranks many times and most of them I had a lot of fun, pulling succesfull mindgames on a chase is satisfying and you leave her without power making her waste time.
The Spirit is not a 50/50 killer, you have to think what you're doing, otherwise you're turning yourself and your team in
Good bro, this is the thing.
Devs provide a different gameplay and then regret because people cry about it.
Many people are good against her, and there is a bunch of perks which are very helpful against her.
Also, nerfing her would do nothing different than perpetrating the same, usual, boring meta. Keeping her the same would start encouraging people to drop same old perks
Making the game more variegated is a must, and we want to raise our voice to say DON'T TOUCH SPIRIT
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Fungoose is right. This Perk is extremely powerful in map awareness, helping you to get the most out of your pop kicks.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Or you know, she could just have a normal vaulting animation like killers are supposed to have, instead of having this ridiculously, very easy to miss 'tell,' that's probably a bug that's unintended rather than an actual feature.
(Yes, I know you're just reporting on it. I just find how she gives no info at all simply dumb).
Or you know, you could just learn how to play against her and stop f***ING complaining about every killer that has some different feature from the plain ones
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@Aura_babyy said:
I dont understand that argument.
Nurse mains on console(xbox) are pretty damn good as the ones I've seen on pc.
I don't think crossplay is the reason for a would be nerf to nurse that isn't even confirmed to be really bad for her anyway.
I'd feel more pity for console killer mains anyway, because PC survivors can be pretty uh... I dunno actually, I Just have a bad feeling about this
Man, having played rank 1 both console and pc I can guarantee there is a huge difference between the two - either bc of fluid 120 fps gameplay and bc of hardware performance
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@lynelmane said:
I know that people are going to try and throw arguments at me, or try to say to 'just ignore it', but this salt is too much. I'm going to have a stroke at this point.
So if you're a survivor, and you decide to tbag at every pallet and click your flashlight in the killer's face a million times, please don't be surprised when you get facecamped. When I play killer, I don't camp unless the survivor really deserves it. But I end up regretting it because in the post game chat, they decide to be as salty and toxic as they possibly can. They say 'gg ez' when I get the 4k, and then say that i'm bad at the game, among a million other insults and curses.
Now, this might be easy to ignore for some people, but for me, it's not as easy. I try to have fun and be a decent/nice killer, and the one time I try to punish a toxic surv, I get salt up the ass from them. Why? Because they don't understand how to play nice. And when they get called out, they explode.
This also goes the other way. Salty killers, why do you do what you do? Why can't you just play nice? I don't expect the killer to let me escape the hatch or even let me live. What I do expect is a little bit of maturity. When you get the 4k, or when you proxy me until I die, please dont be a ######### in the pgc. Don't say that i'm an ass for using adrenaline, or for stunning you with a pallet 3 times in a row because you're too cocky with your lunges.
I guess what i'm saying is that the salt/toxicity is unneeded. I just play for fun, and i'm sure so many others do as well.
I wish everyone luck with their games, killer or survivor. But when you feel the urge to say 'nice noed' to a killer when they get you before even needing their noed, please think again. When you feel the urge to say '######### you' to a survivor for recovering from the dying state and escaping because of their adrenaline, please think again.
This game should have some pleasantness to it. Thank you.
I think that we should all step down with the expectations we have.
For example, it's a killers duty to kill so I don't get why I should let somebody go: has some survivor disconnected? Is somebody playing poorly? That's all part of the inherent risk of playing survivor. As part of a team, if the team performs poorly you will be punished, independently of your skill.
On the contrary, playing killer requires cold blood: you know you will rush against time, you will face people tbagging or flashing you in the face. I don't expect survivors with flashlights not to try a flashlight save, and I can't get angry because it's what they are supposed to do.
Probably we should all just remember it's just a game and we are doing it FOR FUN.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Whoever made the decision to make survivor items a bloodweb unlockable as opposed to basekit really messed up as a game designer. Survivor items should be treated like killer powers and be a part of their basekit, and ONLY survivor add ons should be in the blood web, just like killer add ons do.
So every survivor should have an item at the start of every trial, which they can choose from in the lobby. Items effectively become survivor powers. Killer lobby dodge is simply unacceptable given the variety of solutions the community has suggested over the last year and a half. FIX IT DEVS!
And no, ping to lobby dodge is no excuse given dedicated servers and SWF are impossible to identify since all survivors appear at the same time in the lobby. Any IRL excuse to leave the lobby can be mitigated by the devs implementing a time out feature similar to MOBA games when you back out of the lobby.
You ask items as a counter to lobby dodging - that is totally nonsense.
Devs should focus on PREVENTING dodging - what you are talking instead, is empowering survivors which is totally a different matter.
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@KillermainBTWm8 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/648939#Comment_648939
Yea most Killers are afraid of a challenge they use the best perks play nurse use ebonies every game and omega blink. Both sides can do this. And no the majority of SWF is not uber coordinated tryhard sweats. Even at high ranks. All your evidence of the majority of swf being uber tryhards is most likely false.
It's not a try hard fact.
It's the likeliness of them to communicate verbally, which definitely impacts the match management by their side.
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If they can't remove the swf or the outside comms, which is clearly not viable, at least let killers get 150% bp points to compensate the disadvantage
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@TrueKn1ghtmar3 said:
Honestly Id play surv after the drop since
1. It would be quicker getting into matches.
2. It is far more efficient to play surv for BP.
Only downside to it though is surv is pretty boring with the only thing to do is work a gen and gtfo cause all the tryhards are going to bring their 10mil second chance builds and try to run the killer for 5 gens
How can you consider more efficient to play surv when you have bbq and chilli?
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@StupidButTru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/82973/queue-times-for-killer-when-dlc-drops
All that camping and tunneling will make those would be survivors more tempted to switch to killer or just quit. That's why I say Stranger Things will not save a thing.
Like all that genrushing and unhooking will make new killers quit... Pretty balanced job so far.
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Genrushing and unhooking will drive away players fanbase, it should be considered a bannable offense
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Nurse has teleport
Teleport means no collision
That's quite easy to understand
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I would reason with a priority perspective: given that the Survivor DC seems much more impacting, and given devs limited time, I hope they will first start taking care only of this.
Also, survivors queues are much shorter so its not really undermining survs game experience
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@AWesley91 said:
Killers: "why isn't dc punished more?"
Also killers: "face camping is a legit strategy."
Please stop complaining about this.
Face camping IS a legit strategy - and it's not comparable to DC.
Also, if a killer is face camping its easily punishable with a heavy gen rushing because he is not doing the main thing he should: applying pressure on gens.
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First, people complain just because they can. There will always be something that somebody will complain about. Today, that is spirit - just because it's a top pick so the spotlight is on her.
Secondly, people complain because Spirit forces into a completely different playstyle especially during chases.
Similarly to Nurse (that's with all chances the second killer complained about) the Spirit obliterates usual looping dynamics. To outplay Spirit you must learn again from zero how to play against her. This requires stepping outside the comfort zone, hence not many people will be excited about it - because they are inherently lazy (and that's natural).
From this point of view, complaining about Spirit seems a bit counterproductive - survivors complain the gameplay being boring, but the only way to change it is to force new playstyles by introducing a killer like Spirit.
Finally, Prayer Beads is nothing more than an ultra rare addon which is, correctly, very strong. There are many more ultra rare killer addons which heavily impact the game - not mentioning insta Heal and key on survivor side.
Stop complaining and learn how to play against spirit - especially because also the killer must go through a painful learning process as well to use it successfully. It's not broken, it's simply a high yield killer if played correctly.