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There is only one thing they have to change with that killer: Remove quickscope and therefore add some sort of wind up, so survivors can actually react to him in any way.
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@Talmeer said:
Oh, so we have again the time where fun is the only reason why something should be nerfed?
Oh... Well... Let me search my list from a killer perspective...^^
The word unfun is usually just a tautology for ovepwered. And yes, we should nerf things that are overpowered, which is clearly the case for Iri head.
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@PrettyFaceKate said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1257608#Comment_1257608
Was the killer KnightLight of Legacy then? Because he really makes Nurse look op and I know he often plays one-perk Nurse.
Honestly i do not remember what his/her name was.
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@bjorksnas said:
So only the killer sided maps need a rework but not the survivor sided ones. Alright.
Also there are some safe pallets and to make pallets more useful just add them to the loop so the killer has to break them.
Most of the time its the mindset needing to be changed rather than the map.
There are great looping locations and plenty of opportunity to use balanced landing or throw down a pallet to vault it to use lithe
Also if the pallets are unsafe people should be cornering themselves at them unless they have spine chill + resilience and are amazing at prediction
Please, where did he say anything about that only killer sided maps should be reworked?
Beside that, survivor sided maps just got reworked but they ignored killer sided maps so he makes a fair point.
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@PrettyFaceKate said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1257479#Comment_1257479
Do you play PC EU? Because I think I know who you faced.
Yes i do
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The only perk that does something like that is Spine Chill. It increases the chance of triggering a skillcheck by 10%, but only if the killer is looking into your direction within 36 meters.
Its actually only a little bonus on Spine Chill, since those 10% are not that amazing.
Just a small example: When you do a generator, you have 8% chance of triggering a skillcheck per second. These 10% wont make it 18%, but 8,8%.
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@Quol said:
I agree with your assessment of Nurse if it was pre nerf. But current Nurse is not that good, I hear a lot about the legendary 10k hour Nurse that can 360 no scope you across the map with her pinkie finger and you won't be able to do anything about it. But I have never personally seen that.
As such I believe Freddy should be in the top 3, not Nurse.
Ran into one of those a few days ago. No perks but BBQ, no addons. Pointless of even trying to survive. I think the team (only R1 and 2 btw) did 3 gens in total and i am not even sure how we pulled that off. He/she had over 5000 hours, and apparently this person was a nurse only player, according to steam profl (full off "Cheating Nurse player / best Nurse player " comments)
There are those players that show you how INSANE and still overpowered she is.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40gHL0W48HA&feature=youtu.be&t=98 https://youtu.be/40gHL0W48HA?t=554
Same video, 2 different times. Just watch it and you have the answer why survivors think he is broken in chases. About as much fun as to play COD unarmed.
Also:
"I main deathslinger since his release and even tho i still manage to get most of my games with 4 kills in red ranks, i still consider he would need some buffs, he require more skill since it require more accuracy than huntress and his hitbox isn't big like a truck, so why is he boring/broken/tryhard?"
Oh yea he need some buff, you know... 4K almost all the time as you say is defnitly not enough. I mean, you are the killer so you are entiteld to get 4K 5gen every game.
Seriously, get out of here.
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@Cronix1912 said:
Killers have so many add ons that make them broken (Nurse can stack 9 teleports, wraith can see people through walls by giving up speed?? people get banned for WH and its a given, The shape has the fragment of hair that gives him unlimited EXPOSURE and he has scratched mirrors - WH, Huntress' axes have such a large hitbox that you don't even need to aim it, it will most likely hit and she can carry 9 hatchets, Killer have auto aim which doesn't make sense because where is the skill in that???) So how are survivors gonna escape?? - 360 gets nerfed, windows and loops taken away. STOP nerfing survivors give us some reason to try at this game because the only way we win is if matchmaking fails and gives noob killers because otherwise every killer below rank 10 knows how to bait and has all the broken add ons. Killers can camp us and we can't do anything about it what possible upper hand do we have?
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Hello. The game is unfortunatly super toxic, but it does not seem to be that devs are able (or even want to) change anything about it. The only 2 things you can do is to get used to it or leave the game.
By the way, the level of toxicness is totally qual on both sides. Headshaking killers, facecamping, tunneling and then let the survivor bleed out (and i dont mean slug) is not uncommon in this game unfortunatly. The reason why you probably see it differently is because of the stress level you have while playing killer.
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@Liruliniel said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1254822#Comment_1254822
I never considered the combination of Spine Chill and IW at loops. I never used them at the same time till recently. How have you been using it?
Thanks for all the details. I know what you mean by unique pathing though I like him as a streamer. One of the few I occasionally watch. I've never had much issue with needing exhaustion perks. I learned to loops without them long time ago.
How to put this in words without confusing more then explaining. Hm
The combinition is so good because of so many reasons, lets go through a very obvious but super effective one.
If the killer gets a hit, his power becomes significantly stronger, due to louder noises you make. He can simply react to you even you block LOS at for example jungle gyms. With Iron will, he looses this advantage (unless he runs stridor).
Now comes Spine Chill in handy. While the killer looses his ability to react to your movement, you actually gain that reaction to his movement (i dont know how to say it better). Every player has his pattern to move and to look around, spine chill will make you identify this usually really quick in 90% of the time. It gives you the information what the killer does when LOS is blocked, which gives you the opportunity to react even before you see him. Things like moonwalking become at most tiles useless to the killer, when you are advanced with that perk. Its also much more easy to juke the killer, and guessing games without LOS will become far more rare for sure.
We would not have such an advantage as survivor if we leave Spine Chill or Iron will out, they basicly need each other... unless you are able to not get injured at all, which is not very often the case.
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@SpaceCoconut said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1248605#Comment_1248605
Would it just punish new survivors?
It seems like many people here have run into this dead end and had a story to tell. Some even sound entertained by their experience. Afterwards any player would pay more attention to this particular area and avoid the same mistake.
Having more incidents like this that create stories and moments like this are only good imo.
One time story vs life time bad map design. Take your pick.
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@NursesBootie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1254829#Comment_1254829
It got buffed to nullify the nerf. PT is a farming perk for people that like to interact with the killer and it shouldnt become meta because of genrush.
So? You have to use a perkslot to nullify the nerf - a nerf that was not even that relevant. Like i said, stacking up on gens was never a good idea and its even worse now. You are wrong if you think you get genrushed because of multible people pumping the same gen.
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@NursesBootie said:
Yeah i critisized the PT buff too.
Buffed? It only got adjusted to the nerf. The perk is not buffed in any way.
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@Liruliniel said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1254740#Comment_1254740
I prefer the fast vault because it's funny to watch people get irritated on small loops.
I'll give your build a shot, but from my PoV it dkes not look much stronger than any other I could use.
5 gen run build tho?
Yes fast vault build like i said is amazing too and definitly better then any 2nd chance build like DS, Unbreakable, Adrenaline, DH constellation, since builds like these does not help you with anything but getting a second chance if a killer does a strategic mistake (which is in my mind at least theoretically never the case). It has also the advantage of having extra 9% on gens, which is the reason i think it is nearly as good.
The only problem i see is that you have to give up on either Dead hard or DS. While i think you can never give up on an exhaustion perk in any case you have to leave DS behind, which can only be the case if you know that someone is running any obsession perk so the killer is forced to slug or not tunnel.
Said that, giving up on Iron will is also never really possible, since this is the perk you need for unique pathing (hello Fungoose, thanks for the term, also if you are interested, just search unique pathing ) and also for stealth. Not even talking about Spine Chill.
Give it a go, its an amazing build but be aware that it will take defniitly time to use it propperly, since you will have to learn 2 important things to experience its full potential:
- Unique Pathing
- Use Spine Chill in combinition with iron will on loops
Well the 5 gen run build, it is a very interesting and super strong build, but it obviously lacks on some things unfortunatly why i dont think it is nearly as good as the one i posted (or the fast vault build). I would not recommend it if someone would ask me what the best build is.
Anyway:
- OoO
- Bond
- DH
- Adrenaline / Iron Will
OoO for information and attention
Bond for knowing where your team is so you can avoid them and plan your loops better
DH because DH
Adrenaline or Iron will. Adrenaline gives you a better chance to escape after you looped the killer for 5 gens but I would go for Iron will since it extremly useful in chases itself.
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No nerf needed, because its not an autstandigly good or even neccessary perk.
Some Killers dont understand for whatever reason that cooping on gens is not a good way to play survivor. If you find players grouping on generators, you can be happy since you actually get a free advantage.
They might pop a gen in your face, but all they did is to give up time on 3 other generators. This was even before the nerf, now it is worse to stick together on gens.
The most optimal play as survivor is to always separte, and do gens solo. Exceptions are rare.
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@Liruliniel said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1254509#Comment_1254509
Frequently used perls combined does not make it a best build. Versatile won't make it the best build. This game has way too many variables to even have a best build. There will always be fantastic and strong builds or even unique, but strongest build is not true. The last time the community agreed on a build that could be classified as stronger was the release of MoM with the Ash DLC.
I mean its not just randomly put together, it is the best build you can use, at least from my research. Its the build everyone would probably use if the game was put to the test who the strongest role is. Its the absolute ideal build versus Spirit and Nurse which are the best killers and probably also those used for the contest, plus also the most optimal build for looping against any other killers. The build is also very good for stealth if you need it and it its not that bad either for working on gens. Where i am from we would call this build "Eierlegende Wollmilchsau" which means that this build can do everything.
BT, Adrenaline, Kindred, Unbreakable... all good perks, but if you want to create a perfect build to face the best killers, there is no room for those unfortunatly. Those are fun and good perks for sure and i use them frequently on different builds (i run about 40 builds and i pick them by random generator) but in terms of effectiveness, nah... the one i posted outclasses everything by ease. Only the fast vault build and maybe the 5 gen run build is nearly on that level, but thats it.
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@Liruliniel said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1254447#Comment_1254447
There's no best build everyone plays different.
Of course there is a best build. There is a best in everything. It does not have to be neccessary his best build, but if i would be the op, i would start with trying out the best survivor build.
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@SpiritLover1133 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1253187#Comment_1253187
Really?? Watch my friends stream, we play on PS4 killers always bring Moris and we get easy 4 escapes. This game is COMPLETELY survivor sided.
You can not get a kill even most others 4K as killer? Not even when you use a mori? Must be the games fault then kappa.
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Decisive Strike: most killers tend to let DS’ timer run out before they pick up and there’s also a filthy counter (glitch) that the killer can do to waste your DS without you even using it.
Ds is one of the best perks in the game period. The threat alone, that someone is running DS makes it so much harder for the killer. Play a game without anybody running an obsession perk and with people actually having them, its definitly a difference. And hitting the killer with DS has inpact for sure. And just because there might be a glitch to waste your ds does not justify NOT running DS.
Dead Hard: worst exhaustion perk. Sure, it can help you create quick distance if you’ve caught yourself too close to the killer. But you really shouldn’t ever end up this close to the killer. I find that perks like SB, Lithe, and BL are better because they can be used more freely and interchangeably.
Dead Hard is next to Sprintburst the best exhaustion perk. Simple reason: You have it on demand. Ballance landing is a joke compared to it, its situational, Lithe pretty much the same, when you want to loop a killer at a certain tile, you pretty much have to waste it first. Not saying its a bad perk, gaining distance with it is a big thing, but nothing compared to dead hard. We are not talking about Head On. That perk is fun to use, but not very powerful.
Spine Chill: This is a waste of a perk because a killer could look at you accidentally but not even be going towards you and it goes off. This only really is a counter to the stealth killers but I’d still argue that it shouldn’t be used.
All i say is: you underestimate the power of Spine Chill. Not even telling you why its the best perk in the game, simply because i like to have it my personal tressure nobody but me and a handful of people can actually use propperly ;). Amusing that it took so long for the big streamers to realise how powerful this perk is, even they have not fully discorverd its real potential yet.
Iron Will: This is just a perk that I would rather not waste a perk slot on. If the killer is dedicated, then your best bet is to just run. This perk is really situational too as you may run into a killer that doesn’t come back to hooks etc.
Amazing perk, 2nd best after Spine Chill. It gives you so much more options when loopign the killer, i can not even imagine playing without that perk. Honestly, because of this perk, stridor is A tier.
Windows of Opportunity: just memorise the common locations of these. Don’t waste a perk slot on it.
Beginners perk to learn where pallets are, nothing else.
Bond: you should ideally be going for altruism by unhooking survivors and if the killer is distracted with a different survivor then you should be healing at hook.
Another amazing perk when running the killer. I combine it with OoO most of the time. Simple reason: Dont bother other survivors when looping the killer doing gens. It helps you plan your next move. Definitly an A tier perk.
I think that solos or NOT - Adrenalin is always a must
I disagree. Not worth the perkslot for me, there are just better options. The better i got, the more useless Adrenaline became for me. Especially now at the current meta, when an extra health state does not help you anyway because of noed.
Self-Care isn’t really a must
There have been plenty of discussions why selfcare is a waste of a perkslot, i am not starting another one. All i say is that Selfcare is garbage, for solo and for groups especially. There is almost never a situation when you need to heal yourself. And it is certainly not a good option of healing. Use a medkit, ignore healing at all and do gens, let a teammate do the job, use Inner.. all better options.
Kindred
A good suggestion, even tho i would not run it, since ... again... better options. But if you are new to the game, it defniitly helps you with decission making.
Here is the current best build you can run as a survivor:
- DS
- DH
- Spine Chill
- Iron will
If you are sure somebody alse is running DS, you can also use
- DH
- Spine Chill
- Resillience
- Iron will
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@SpiritLover1133 said:
who the heck complains about camping and tunneling in dbd 2020?? You only complain about it when you get downed in 5 seconds buying no time for your teammates to do gens. Simply get better at the game and don’t complain to devs to ruin the game even more to veteran player.
Your statement is true.
But also the same can be said about all these sub par killers lurking around here - still not beening able to 4K every single match after that patch. They keep complaining no matter what, its totally ridiculous.
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@Waffleyumboy said:
Just wanted to quickly gather opinions. Should swf be nerfed or solos buffed is another key question. Let me know your thoughts iin the comments.
Personally I play mostly swf as survivor, so I may have some bias. I think solos are UP because I like many think dbd would work well as a team game. Perks and objectives should be balanced around coordination. Balancing around optimal survivors after eliminating solo swf gap seems like the best move to me.
Solo is slightly underpowered, SWF is slightly overpowered.
When i talk about SWF i mean 3 or 4 people in a group.
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@AvisDeene said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1250043#Comment_1250043
Before the update, the most common complaints (Except for right before and right after the Ruin Patch) were from Survivors crying about tunneling, camping, moris, and NoEd. Those complaints have flooded this forum even before the Ruin nerf.
Moris are the only legitimate complaint, I still don't know what the Devs were on when they thought it was a good idea.
Everything else they complain about can all be remedied by getting better at the game. They either don't want to or won't admit that they aren't skilled enough to.
Camping can be countered by learning the map layouts and mastering looping. If the Killer can't catch you, they can't camp you. You also have perks such as Borrowed Time and Decisive Strike that can be used with good teamwork. Barring Bubba, camping isn't an issue. It isn't the Killers fault if you're bad and can't prolong a chase for more than 5 seconds.
Tunneling can be countered by, once again, learning how to loop better. If you waste too much of the Killers time, you become a less desirable target. If the Killer wastes the match chasing you, you succeeded in letting your teammates win. Your teammates can also interfere by body blocking, giving you a chance to break the chase and sneak away. Decisive Strike can also help.
The game has always been Survivor sided. The reason why many are crying is because the Devs are finally balancing things to be fair for both sides and the Survivors don't want to adapt. They want to always have their DS ready for EGC so they can get EZ 4 escapes.
What did Survivors reply when Killer mains complained? Git Gud, Apply Pressure! Well, now Survivors can take their own advice.
I dont agree that there are more survivor complains before that patch, the forum was full of killers complaining about every nonsense like genrush and when you look at it, there are still planty of them around, even tho killers have now the best time ever. But you are right, also survivors complained, pretty much for the same reason killers complained.
The game was very survivor sided 2 years ago, but it slowly shifted in the other direction. Getting 4Ks as a killer is much more easy then getting 4 escapes now and thats even a fact supported by stats, even before this insane killer buff.
I think some ballances are a good thing, like the nerf of genspeed when multible survivors are on a single generator, and also godloops should have been dealt but on some they went way too far. Just look at the second version of iron works, complete nonsense and a testament on how much devs are into ballancing overall.
The problem i and probably any other reasonable person who is still left here have with the game is that developers always take trastic steps in one direction. Like you said, in the past, survivors had the upper hand, so they decided to bring an update that completly demolishes any survivor defense and nerf them where even possible. Its not like they removed a pallet or two, no they had to create deadzones half of the map. 7-8 pallets are standard now, when there used to be 12-15. Why does it always have to be from one extreme into another? Do you really get that? Be honest now.
All those git goods are nonsense from people who hate the other side and you know that, now you want payback as far as i can read out of your text. Thats not the right way to deal with the game.
I for myself am a killer main now since i got tired of playing survivor (i am a better survivor then killer tho), 4K was never that hard, but now it is standard. I say it the same way you say it about survivors who come here to complane: Killers who cant 4K now are just terrible at the game period. Its clearly in the killers favour now, no discussion neccessary.
Ballancing =/= payback for 2016.
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It means "killer is camping".
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@AvisDeene said:
So basically, what you're saying is what Survivors have told killers to do when they complained about the nerf to Ruin, which is, Git Gud or Apply Pressure?
As far as complaints, there are far more threads posted by Survivors complaining about NoEd (One of the easiest things to counter in the game), tunneling and camping, than there are about Killers complaining.
Before the update, 90% of the complains was from killers, right now it is pretty even when you check the forum.
It is a little bit silly that killer mains still complain after this update... when free wins are now served on silver tablet to them. The only reasonable complain as a killer right now is that the game is to easy, but most who come here are the weaklings and for them, the game cant be easy enough.
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Killer is 3 or 4K. 2K is a draw, less then that a loss. But i also dont see myself loosing when i had a good time.
For survivor, well some say escaping is a win or pip is a win, but personally, i only care if i had fun or not. So.. a fun game is a win.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1247302#Comment_1247302
oh, no, i DO get the point, but removing infinites and giving killers a chance to actually patrol generators before they pop is certainly not a bad thing. Does it make the survivors job harder? yes. Is that a bad thing? no, why? because the changes are fair and just.
Yes, maybe you are right, maybe not i am not sure yet, but what he is trying to say is a different story. Survivors will after those changes even be more dedicated to rush those gens. I dont know if that will be the case but that is is opinion obviously. In the direct interaction with the (possible) upcoming meta, genrush builds might become very popular. Survivors need a way to defende, and rushing those gens with perks like Prove thyself and BNPs might become the next killers nightmare.
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@[Deleted User] said:
have you actually been playing the same game as me? Generators can still be done at a good pace by either spreading out the pressure, splitting up generators to force the killer to walk further to patrol or taking perks like resilience and prove thyself with a toolbox to get gens done fast with teammates. Maps being smaller eases the pressure killers have when patrolling, but don't actually hinder survivor objectives at all. When a killer is engaged in a chase, you do the objective. if people are going down too fast that's either a survivors skill level problem, or the killers skill outweighs theirs.
You dont get the point.
He is saying that making maps smaller is just limiting survivors options and basicly forcing them to do gens as fast as possible.
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@PayneMacLeod said:
Case in point: Rank 1, 9, 12 and 14. I killed all 4 (well, one rage quit)
it was hard as hell, as it should be.
No.
You should loose every single game like these. That you kill all 4 of them as a rank 17 only shows how broken this games matchmaking really is.
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The window logic now is definitly not safer, but they removed a very annoying bug which sucked survivors back to the window after vaulting. Those hits you got from that should not have been the case anyway.
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@Speshul_Kitten said:
the map changes and extra 3 second-gen times didn’t seem like it affected survivors at all. I decided to challenge myself since the changes were pretty weak overall IMO. Please consider more serious changes in order to keep your Killer player base.
*peep my potato teammates using Premonition at red ranks (I used Premonition to fit in later).
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/711/M2LPYMQR7UR7.jpeg
First of all, what do you want to prove by that? That you escaped 3 times? Outstanding! Devs will be shocked after those 3 screenshots and rethink their ballance joices.
Second, you play on console. The game is easy mode there anyway. Hate me for saying that but it is the truth (been there, done that).
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@emptyCups said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1246308#Comment_1246308
4 survivors can get to gens in less time
Vs a single killer who can get to gens in less time... yeah I'd say the survivor team benefits 3 more times then killer might
The warmup Question:
In which phase of the game is the killer able to patrol gens quicker:
In the early game, when gens are far away from each other?
In the late game, when all gens are very close to each other?
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Pyramid Head and Slenderman would be amazing
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The Nurse is the most op killer. I dont think it is really important if a killer is hard to play or not, it just matters what the killers potential is. I always assume, when we talk about op, we also considere the full potential of each killer.
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@elvangulley said:
Because people still want to use them if you hate them so much dont use them simple as that and if you are a survivor that doesn't like them then o well suck it up i dont your second chance crutch perks or comms there still in the game
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@smartemarte said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1244632#Comment_1244632
he's in a good spot right now ? he's awful he's one of the worst killers and is even less effective against good survivors. He's got one of the lowest kills per game for a reason and i hardly ever if ever see him at red rank.
He got one of the lowest amount of kills per game? From where do you have these new informations? From the only info we got so far from the devs, the trapper is above average in terms of killrate.
Same with popularity. He is overall the most popular killer and on red ranks he is the 6th most popular killer. At least this is what we got from devs. Like i said, if you have anything new to this, let us know.
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@Raccoon said:
...I say as there are 60k people online.
The game's highest population EVER was 75k.
RIP DBD
:(
Dont overestimate those numbers at the moment. A new patch, everyone wants to see whats going on and... you know.. corona is still a thing.
We will have to see what this patch does with the game in the long run.
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Starting with all of his traps would make him overpowered, plain simple. He is in a good spot right now, all he needs is maybe +1 extra trap to start with and he would definitly be a viable killer.
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@TheRockstarKnight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1241835#Comment_1241835
I'm not trying to represent Killers, I just take issue with someone making a bunch of wild statements without trying to back them up. It's the reason these forums are full of people just getting mad at each other.
Do you have a source for the 70% = 2.8 kills on average? I've never actually seem where the devs explained how they got the kill rate numbers (or why they expressed them through percentiles of all things).
I won't argue about Deathslinger or Dead zones, but you're not OP. As I said in the quote I'm not asking for evidence; just an explanation of why they think the way they do. Not just 'Deathslinger OP!' but 'Deathslinger OP because...'
This is as the same as my confusing question about his 'Killer's OP!' statement. You can't just say 'Killer' OP!' you need to explain WHY. I don't care if it's a bad explanation: I just want an explanation so that I and others can understand OP's position.
With regards to nerf quality vs. nerf quantity, I don't think you understand what I was saying at all.
I'm simply saying that the quality of nerfs is more important than the quantity of nerfs. I'm saying this because that is OP's argument: "Killer's are OP because Survivors have been nerfed more"
You can't "say the same of Balanced Landing or MoM" because I'm not talking about anything remotely applicable to them.
It's fine if she or he wants to talk about their experiences; but they need to ACTUALLY TALK ABOUT THEIR EXPERIENCES. This is how we get threads that are just people saying "X is OP!" and "X is not OP!" I could care less whether X is OP or not, but I get frustrated when I see people refusing to go into detail about WHY they think what they think.
To sum up: I'm not defending Killers or whatever. I'm just asking OP to provide an explanation for their view that Killer's are overpowered.
I get what you are saying with quality and quantity nerfs. The ammount of nerfs does not really matter if those are just minor things, compared to really big changes. Your statement is obviously true and nobody questions that.
But the reality is, that survivors not only suffer from way more nerfs but also from more significant nerfs. Just compare them and then make a honest judgement.
What are the biggest killer nerfs to this point? The most complained about is Ruin, which had no where near as much inpact as for example the exhaustion nerf. This one was game changing, while ruin was just imidiatly replaced with a different yet even better perk.
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@Magikazam said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1243632#Comment_1243632
''Spirit fury is a free hit each 3 pallets. If this has nothing to do with chase potential, then i dont know what you even devine as chase potenial / kill speed.''
You still get stun even if the pallet break on you.,, Have you ever used that perk?
''Only good for nurse?''
There is only 3 reason a killer should be vaulting.
Case 1: You play nurse, it can be hard to hit some one who vault while you try to blink on them, it can be worth blocking vault with bamboozle on certain loop in that case.
Case 2: you just hit a survivor while they were vaulting out of a building, now you need to go for the second hit and vaulting is the fastest way to catch them up or you simply need to pick them up .
Case 3: your using legion power.
If you are vaulting for other reason, you're probably doing something wrong like doing loop wrong and you would savve yourself a perk slot by learning how to mindgame a survivor around those. That or your vaulting in a situation the survivor would'nt use the vault anyway so it a wast of Bamboozle.
You still get stun even if the pallet break on you.,, Have you ever used that perk?
I guess i should have mentioned spirit fury and enduring, a very common combo, still semi-popular, some call it a one trick pony, i call it a free hit. After the enduring nerf it got a bit less popular, but it is still viable. Nevertheless it is definitly helping you to "kill faster".
Uff, have i used that perk? Hm i think i used it in the last... i dont know... 5.000 killer games on rank 1 maybe 1 or 2 times.
There is only 3 reason a killer should be vaulting.
It is quiet amusing when someone tries to teach a lesson when this person thinks it is a good idea to use Bamboozle on Nurse. sorry and no offense, but if you really thinking that way we are probably so far separeted in terms of knowledge and skill that there is no point in even discussing anymore.
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@Magikazam said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1243306#Comment_1243306
''If survivors do generators while the killer is camping, the killer is getting punished for his lazy playstyle.''
I agree and that fine.
''If survivors swarm the hook, the killer gets exactly what he wants when he camps: They dont do generators. What else do you want?''
For the ranking system to not punish the killer. If you manage to get the 4 of them on hook cause they swarmed you, congrat, you will de-pip. casue the gamre drain your point for camping and cause you did'nt chase them or hit them enought. In that case the killer did a real good play and punished the survivor for not only playing bad but doing the worst play possible. but the game make you lose rank for playing correctly cause ''The game was not fun, survivor din't get to unhook and get chased enought''.
''Of course there should be perks to deny the killer killing fast. There are also perks for the killer to kill faster (Noed, Safe the best for last, Play with your food, Spirit fury, Bamboozle etc etc) and to slow down generators. I dont understand why you complain about this.''
First, no, I don't think there should be perks to deny the killer killing fast, let me explain why. (this is my opinion too, I don't think removing all survivors perks that deny kill is a good thing.)
Even if you kill someone fast, there still 3 of them who can work on their objectives, and their objective take less time to do. So a good killer need to have survivors off the generators as much as possible. TONS of survivor perk reduce the time or number of people of generator due to how they work.Any perk that work in the same way as Self care give time to your team, If you can do something alone, that should require 2 survivors, that mean that no one else need to get off gens and help you, they don't need to waste time getting off gens, finding you, healing you and going back to their gens. that a lot of time saved, and that on a perk that far from being broken or meta... Now add Second chance perk and exhaustion perk it had a lot of time to chase, so more time for you to do gen and less time for killer to apply pressure elsewhere. All those perks indirectly nerf killer killing speed, does survivor relly need perk to slow down killer speed when they already have that many tools doing it? And then you need to consider that the killer is at his weakest at the start of the game. Facing 4 people who can slow your progress down when you need to rely on them doing mistake leave little place for play for the killer.
As for killer perk helping you kill faster... NoED give you a second chance if survivor did'nt do bone
Safe the best for last rely on you playing a m1 killer and hoping the obsession will ignore you all game long and not body block. The perk is good but far from being a extremly reliable way to kill faster no matter what killer you use.
Play with your food require build-up you keep losing for a max of 5% that will only happend if the obsession let themself be chase trice whitout you chasing anyone else. It relly to much on survivor doing mistakes.
Spirit Fury. Has nothing to do with your kill potential, you also don't want to break all pallet and it would be a waste if it trigger on a unsafe pallet.
Bamboozle .... Only good for nurse, if you vault as killer you probably doing something wrong, or the survivor wont be returning to that vault anyway.
So all the killer perk that help killing (even NoED) depend on survivors doing something wrong. Lots of them also have downside. while survivor downside of second chance or anything that give them time is either ''I can use it only once'' or ''it has coldown''. One use perk like DS are still extremly strong so that not much of a downside. and CD aren't an issue either...
For the ranking system to not punish the killer. If you manage to get the 4 of them on hook cause they swarmed you, congrat, you will de-pip. casue the gamre drain your point for camping and cause you did'nt chase them or hit them enought. In that case the killer did a real good play and punished the survivor for not only playing bad but doing the worst play possible. but the game make you lose rank for playing correctly cause ''The game was not fun, survivor din't get to unhook and get chased enought''.
I can not really tell if this is getting punished by the ranking system because in my 2000 hours as killer i did not camp a single time. When survivors are swarming around the hook after i hook someone, which happens frequently, thats great! Actually amazing! A free target, maybe even multible. I dont even have to look for the next survivor. Explain me how this is bad for the killer? Those games are the most easy to win.
Even if you kill someone fast, there still 3 of them who can work on their objectives, and their objective take less time to do. So a good killer need to have survivors off the generators as much as possible. TONS of survivor perk reduce the time or number of people of generator due to how they work.Any perk that work in the same way as Self care give time to your team, If you can do something alone, that should require 2 survivors, that mean that no one else need to get off gens and help you, they don't need to waste time getting off gens, finding you, healing you and going back to their gens. that a lot of time saved, and that on a perk that far from being broken or meta... Now add Second chance perk and exhaustion perk it had a lot of time to chase, so more time for you to do gen and less time for killer to apply pressure elsewhere. All those perks indirectly nerf killer killing speed, does survivor relly need perk to slow down killer speed when they already have that many tools doing it? And then you need to consider that the killer is at his weakest at the start of the game. Facing 4 people who can slow your progress down when you need to rely on them doing mistake leave little place for play for the killer.
Lets talk about how a (or at leat my typcial) scenario as a killer is:
- One survivor is on the hook (not on a gen)
- One survivor is going for the safe (not on a gen)
- One survivor is getting chased (not on a gen)
- One survivor is (hopefully for the team) on a gen
This is a typical rotation in pretty much all of my games as a killer. Normally there is 1 survivor on a gen, and the rest is busy not falling apart. It becomes really nasty when someone is slugged, which happens often in my games. Then its usually game over, unless they have unbreakable or very good coordination. Thats totally fine tho, since also my perks helped me to get those kills / downs.
A killer is in fact weak in the early, but becomes significantly stronger the longer the game goes. Pallets are gone, playfield is smaller, gens are easy to patrol. I think they should ballance the difference between early (killer too weak) and lategame (killer too strong), but thats it.
I simply dont see all those weaknesses you are talking about... where you see a problem, i see an oppotunity. Self care for example is just hindering the survivor team, there is nothing better to see a guy on my BBQ sitting somewhere wasting time healing himself.
As for killer perk helping you kill faster... NoED give you a second chance if survivor did'nt do bone
A second chance perk nethertheless.
Safe the best for last rely on you playing a m1 killer and hoping the obsession will ignore you all game long and not body block. The perk is good but far from being a extremly reliable way to kill faster no matter what killer you use.
Yes, for M1 killer. Any killer that is not considered an M1 killer is more the powerful enough to not need any perks. Nurse, Spirit, Billy, Huntress. If someone cant win with those killers and has to complain about, it might be time to follow Matheiu Cote's advise (play civilization instead)
where you see this perk good, i see it as an amazing perk. Cuts my chases to half when i have 8 stacks, which is not taking a lot of time / effort to get.
Spirit Fury. Has nothing to do with your kill potential, you also don't want to break all pallet and it would be a waste if it trigger on a unsafe pallet.
Spirit fury is a free hit each 3 pallets. If this has nothing to do with chase potential, then i dont know what you even devine as chase potenial / kill speed.
Bamboozle .... Only good for nurse, if you vault as killer you probably doing something wrong, or the survivor wont be returning to that vault anyway.
Only good for nurse?
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Not as often as i should actually :)
I am normally very alturistic, and i often go for safes even tho it is almost impossible to be successful (or trade my life for my teammate). So i die often in cases where i would be able to escape, since i dont give a damn about escaping.
So if i have to guess, less then 50%.
If i would play selfish, i would definitly escape more then 50%. The reason for that is that i am usually way better then the person who plays the killer, at least in 8-9/10 times. And no, i am not an arrogant shmock, its just the truth.
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@Magikazam said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1243210#Comment_1243210
Survivor can punish the killer with camping, The game should'nt help them more. Camping should be the go to strat if people swarm the hook, yet the game punish me for not letting the 3 other survivor do a stupid move and reward them for doing the worst possible strat they could do in that situation.
Survivor can counter survivor by body blocking, they should'nt need perk to deny the killer.. killing fast. If your going to punish tunelling then they should punnish gen rushing as much, that how thing work.
If survivors do generators while the killer is camping, the killer is getting punished for his lazy playstyle.
If survivors swarm the hook, the killer gets exactly what he wants when he camps: They dont do generators. What else do you want?
Of course there should be perks to deny the killer killing fast. There are also perks for the killer to kill faster (Noed, Safe the best for last, Play with your food, Spirit fury, Bamboozle etc etc) and to slow down generators. I dont understand why you complain about this.
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Yes I agree, camping suck, yet killer get extremly punished by the ranking system for doing it, no matter what the situation. My problem with this is, Why punishing the killer?
You answered your own question.
Yea I agree, it not fun bein tunneled. but why does survivors have SO many perk to counter it.
You answered your own question.
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@TheRockstarKnight said:
This is probably more effort than this post is worth, but...
For months anyone with an opinion that this game is not survivor sided has been bashed or banned from posting on here. I see 10x more posts and people getting attacked if they say anything about survivor no longer being fun or issues with the current balance. The mods have really turned this forum into a cesspool of people who have created an alternate reality of the balance of the game. The mods also seem to turn a blind eye to anyone attacking someone who argues for survivor balance. This has obviously created more of an echo chamber.
Well I guess this post is getting closed and you're getting banned. In the mean time, would mind showing literally any evidence to back specific tirade this up? Surely months of this behavior has left you with quite a few examples of it.
4-5 months ago escape ratios were released. Which showed overwhelmingly that this game was killer sided. To my disbelief, people still argued that even though all killers at red ranks have over a 50 percent kill ratio, some over 70 percent, that this game was still survivor sided.
Okay. Since you're so knowledgeable about the stats why don't you tell me what a 70% kill ratio means exactly.
Does Freddy two and a half Survivors most games? Does he 4k 70% of the time? Does he get at least a 2k 70% of the time? Does he 0k 30% of the time?
Through your "balance" you have made this game just awful to play on survivor side. You have taken out the mind games. You've destroyed any type of critical thinking in the chase for killer.
Would you care to explain how exactly mind games and critical thinking have been 'destroyed'? You keep making claims and I keep seeing very few explanations or evidence of why these claims are accurate.
You've released a killer who completely destroys any resemblance of balance in a chase by giving that killer a long range gun.
Again, I'm not asking for 50 games of Deathslinger or anything. Just a description of how he destroys balance will suffice. This is just a flat statement with nary a supporting argument.
This game is overwhelmingly killer sided. To state otherwise is to deny reality.
Same as above.
Why is this game overwhelmingly Killer sided?
Because you say, without explaining how, one Killer destroys chase balance? Because you say, again sans an explanation, that all mind games and critical thinking for Killers are destroyed?
You need a supporting argument to back up your claim.
I keep hearing about how killer got a few balance patches to nurse and ruin. Please. Look at the list that shows survivor nerfs compared to killer nerfs, you'll see that the list is 10x lengthier.
Finally an actual supporting argument.
If something is broken should it just be left untouched because the other side hasn't gotten a nerf lately?
How many nerfs have been doled out is irrelevant to the argument you're making. The quality of the nerfs and of the balance between both sides is more relevant than just the quantity of nerfs.
Let me provide an example.
Say I remove the ability for Killers to injure Survivors with a basic attack. That's just one nerf.
I then halve Survivor heal speeds, increase gen times by 20 seconds, and make Survivors move at 3.5 m/s (down from 4). That's three nerfs.
Obviously Killers are now much weaker than Survivors, despite the fact that they only really received one nerf.
See? The quality is more significant than the quantity.
Expect even more nerfs to survivor in the future. They won't be done until every 10k hour lunchbox is able to 4k with ease.
Once again you're not supporting this statement with any kind of argument. Why should we expect this? What evidence supports this?
Since nobody wants to answer your questions, i try my best to do so:
Okay. Since you're so knowledgeable about the stats why don't you tell me what a 70% kill ratio means exactly.
Does Freddy two and a half Survivors most games? Does he 4k 70% of the time? Does he get at least a 2k 70% of the time? Does he 0k 30% of the time?
70% killrate means he gets 2,8 kills on average. Dont play dumb.
Would you care to explain how exactly mind games and critical thinking have been 'destroyed'? You keep making claims and I keep seeing very few explanations or evidence of why these claims are accurate.
I think what he means are the deadzones. The battle between the killer and the survivor is pointless in deadzones, a survivor need some defenses. A good killer knows how to outplay a survivor at jungly gyms or at pallets for example, but not even the best survivor can do anything against a killer in a deadzone.. for obvious reasons.
Again, I'm not asking for 50 games of Deathslinger or anything. Just a description of how he destroys balance will suffice. This is just a flat statement with nary a supporting argument.
Deathslinger is worth a whole topic to be talked about but to cut this short: Quickscope is removing counter play and reaction to survivor. No saying he is per se broken, but in chases, he is.
Same as above.
Why is this game overwhelmingly Killer sided?
Because you say, without explaining how, one Killer destroys chase balance? Because you say, again sans an explanation, that all mind games and critical thinking for Killers are destroyed?
You need a supporting argument to back up your claim.
I dont know what that question even means. I guess he is obviously talking from his POV and statistics underpin his statement. For myself i think if you play killer really well and you play the best killers, its almost impossible to loose. I have not lost a single game as killer since quiet a while.
Finally an actual supporting argument.
If something is broken should it just be left untouched because the other side hasn't gotten a nerf lately?
How many nerfs have been doled out is irrelevant to the argument you're making. The quality of the nerfs and of the balance between both sides is more relevant than just the quantity of nerfs.
Let me provide an example.
Say I remove the ability for Killers to injure Survivors with a basic attack. That's just one nerf.
I then halve Survivor heal speeds, increase gen times by 20 seconds, and make Survivors move at 3.5 m/s (down from 4). That's three nerfs.
Obviously Killers are now much weaker than Survivors, despite the fact that they only really received one nerf.
See? The quality is more significant than the quantity.
We could say the same of survivor nerfs like MoM, exhaustion status or Ballanced Landing , just a few examples. The Ruin change was no big deal at all, it was never a great perk, it was just a perk for lazy people. Technically it was not even a killer nerf since pop and corrupt were and are better perks anyway. Your argument is invalid.
Once again you're not supporting this statement with any kind of argument. Why should we expect this? What evidence supports this?
Again, his argument is obviously his experience, and so would be your counterargument. Well, there is one more point we could talk about: statistics. Your want to talk about statistics? I dont think so. Would not look that good for you if you represent the killers standpoint.
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@USELESS said:
I think this game is comltely survivor sided, without paid killers like reddy or demogorgon maybe you can't do anything. Map pressure? Gone. HITBOXES? Are broken as glass. Anything on this game seems to be survivor sided when you are killer. Imo this game needs a perk to put pressure on survivors that even with clown we could kill someone. If you not believe me, play killer as rank 4 as trapper or clown
I think people like you are the definition of intitled killer mains who know absolutly nothing about the game. The sad part of this story is that devs listen to posts like this more then to those who actually know what they say (there are a few people here who get completly ignored but you can tell they have thousends of hours on this game playing on the highest rank).
Alone that you mention demogorgon as a viable killer makes me laugh out loud (he is one of the few killer who is not viable).
Hitboxes are indeed a joke, but sole for survivors and not for killers.
This game does not need a perk to put pressure on survivors since there are already enough tools to accomplish this.
And this "If you dont believe me, play killer as rank 4 as trapper or clown"... good sir, every monkey here is Rank 1 killer, trust me, you are not the pro who can tell people something new about the game. no offense.
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@USELESS said:
I played some games as killer and noticed that they seems to get nerfed by some reason. Also a thing that already made this game terrible is a way worst now, SWF this increased a lot with this update, thats why I turned a survivor main now. The game keeps survivor sided
This is by far the most killer sided patch in this game since ages.
Deadzones are now everywhere, godloops are history, slower genspeed, smaller maps and so on.
Complaining now as a killer main is very entitled, dont you agree?
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- Yes
- Not useless, but it would definitly loose a lot of its potential (and probably it wont be a semi-common perk anymore)
- I dont care. They die anyway
- Positive. Its my favourite perk by a long shot.
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I am not a clown main but i play him frequently on R1.
My favourite build on him is
- Corrupt
- Pop
- BBQ (can be switched, i use it mainly for bloodpoints)
- Safe the best for last
Kind regards
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@Shocktober said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/841/ZQJJLJRGCYPI.png
This is going to be the urban evasion, sprint burst blendette meta. It's worse than I ever thought.
And people were saying i was just unlucky.
@xEa said:
I am on the PTB right now, and all i can say is: Is this a little late april fools joke?? It has to be, right?
First game i play: Gas Heaven
There is 1 (ONE) single pallet on the whole middle of the map! One!
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/230/4H3MVCDIRVWD.jpg
The rest of it is a deadzone with absolutly nothing but here and there some trash!
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/101/KAWZ4X5O95AK.jpg
1 Pallet in the garage
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/235/17S8ZEX379VI.jpg
1 more pallet between killershack and deadzone
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/673/KZ4WVS1QIRA6.jpg
4 Jungle Gyms with 1 pallet each
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/384/6O5O0ZJKTNHG.jpg
And the Killer shack pallet.
8 pallets on the whole map. Are we good? I mean, ARE WE GOOD? I honestly have to ask without sarkasm. Have you forgot to add the pallets in those silly big deadzones and the silly big middle of the map (2 gens by the way... 1 pallet... )
This is even worse then i have expected, and i thought it will be aweful.
2Nd Game: Gas Heaven again
This time i count 7 pallets! And most of them are even weaker then before.
3rd Game: Thompson House
I am already really frustrated, so i stopped counting pallets but it looks like more or less the same ammount. All i can say at this point is that the map looks really really aweful, even worse then the old thompson house. It feels squeezed, not well designed at all.
I might try out a few more games after a break, but if this goes on like Thompson and Gas Heaven.. ahhm well... good luck with your next game devs. At least you know how you killed it.
If it is really that bad, i wont even try the new update tbh.