woundcowboy

People complaining about gen regression after it has been gutted. I can’t imagine being this bad at an easy game like DBD.

in What’s with every Killer running Pain Res and Pop? Comment by woundcowboy December 7, 2023

@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3600447#Comment_3600447
Gotcha. You can forgive my confusion considering that's a very different statement to the one I initially responded to.
Regardless, I disagree. Recent precedent indicates that at least some of the killer updates are going to be quite nice, and some killer improvements (like the FOV slider) are very likely to be just straight up good.

What precedent? Which killer has been reworked enough to become strong? The last I can think of is Freddy, and he was then nerfed to the ground. By the ratio of changes alone, there are objectively more things that help survivors.

in Upcoming Live Updates Roadmap Comment by woundcowboy December 3, 2023

@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3599871#Comment_3599871
It's super arguable, but that's not really my point so I won't get into that.
We've shifted the bounds of the argument immensely here. We've gone from "this list favours the survivor experience", to "these changes will harm the killers listed", to "these changes won't meaningfully help the killers listed". I can't really tell which of those you're most invested in, since they're pretty different, so I'm not even entirely sure what your position is here.
My position, though, is that the changes are probably going to be neutral at worst and that the list is pretty balanced in terms of which 'side' it 'favours'.

The perk nerfs and the “3 gen solution “ will almost certainly be detrimental to the killer, while the “improvements” are unlikely to matter.

in Upcoming Live Updates Roadmap Comment by woundcowboy December 3, 2023

Survivor Rule Book: The Game

in Wording of 3 Gen mechanic has me worried Comment by woundcowboy December 3, 2023

@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3599857#Comment_3599857
While I agree that some of the perks listed are inevitably going to be nerfs, that's very much not true of all of them. There's no way on this green earth they'd possibly nerf Grim Embrace, for example, and Shadowborn + Monitor are getting new effects entirely (apparently, I'd have assumed Monitor would be fine without a new effect but that is what they said).
Also, based on their history, killer tweaks typically range from neutral to good, so that's kinda nothing. It's only based on their history if you look at like... Trickster and Deathslinger, right? But if you look at Ghostface, Legion, Trapper, Onryo, and Plague, it starts to look a whole lot better. Add in the killers that got smaller tweaks like Huntress and Deathslinger (more recently), which is probably what we're looking at for most on this list, and it starts to look a whole lot less like the killers in question are going to become weaker.
This is pretty biased. It's assuming that every change listed is going to be negative, and judging based on that.

I mean they did adjust the killers you listed, but I think most/if not all of them are still weak. Trapper is still a joke against good survivors, even with those improvements. DS changes were laughable and don’t matter, especially compared to how harshly he was nerfed. They are super cautious with killer improvements, yet have no problem giving survivors things like extra health states and chances for endurance. I don’t think it’s even arguable that most killers stand no chance against an efficient group.

in Upcoming Live Updates Roadmap Comment by woundcowboy December 2, 2023

@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3599816#Comment_3599816
What are you basing that on, may I ask? I see a lot of killer-focused things on this list.

For starters, the perk updates are almost guaranteed to be nerfs. Like there’s no way STBFL is going to be buffed. The FOV is a positive change, but literally everything else is going to hurt killer in some capacity. Based on their history, killer reworks usually result in that killer being weaker, which again reflects the devs listening to survivor feedback and not the killer experience.

in Upcoming Live Updates Roadmap Comment by woundcowboy December 2, 2023

Genuine question: How is anyone who enjoys killer supposed to look at this and be excited for DBD’s future? I’m not even accusing the devs of being biased; this map 100% prioritizes the survivor experience, especially since we don’t know if those reworks are going to make the killer better or worse.

in Upcoming Live Updates Roadmap Comment by woundcowboy December 2, 2023

@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3598185#Comment_3598185
What should they fix? Should they force players to play Xeno or what?

Make him worth using and not have hand-held counterplay.

in why am i not seeing xenos anymore? Comment by woundcowboy December 1, 2023

@Thusly_Boned said:
This is not a new narrative.
Every time a new killer comes out that is even remotely strong, especially if they're even a little "atypical" a decent sized section of the surv base does this. They just want to keep using the same tactics and have hissy fits about how nerfs are needed, or stage dumb in game protests, or DC en masse.
We just saw this with Xeno.
Then they either actually quit the game, or they put on their adult pants and learn how to play against them.

Neither of those last two things happen because BHVR always caves in and gives them what they want.

in Surviving mains just giving up against Chucky. They want nerfs. Comment by woundcowboy November 30, 2023

@GannTM said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3592488#Comment_3592488
Sadly you are right, but that’s also the sole reason Nurse should be removed from the game.

I think you have it backwards: more killers should be like her. She relies on game knowledge and mechanical skill to beat her. The modern, gimped BHVR killer design is to give survivors built in, easy mode counterplay. Chucky was promising because he wasn’t reliant on a mechanic that survivors can take away. As usual, killers aren’t allowed to be strong and the burden of skill is always heavier on them. Meanwhile survivor gameplay is holding forward and memorizing tiles.

in Have you lost hope in dbd and their balance philosophy? Comment by woundcowboy November 25, 2023

@GannTM said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3591756#Comment_3591756
You do have strong tools in Chucky, they just require a learning curve which isn’t a bad thing lol.

Nurse exists. No reason to put a bunch of effort into a killer that is still inferior in every way.

in Have you lost hope in dbd and their balance philosophy? Comment by woundcowboy November 24, 2023

@GannTM said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3591739#Comment_3591739
It wasn’t even that much of a nerf. All it does is remove the brain dead gameplay and incentivize the skill portion of him. Chucky will be a fantastic killer on live.

It was a strong antiloop. Killers should have strong tools, especially since survivors have incredibly safe loops.

in Have you lost hope in dbd and their balance philosophy? Comment by woundcowboy November 24, 2023

@GannTM said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3591594#Comment_3591594
They literally nerfed and buffed him, are you seriously going to go there?

It’s an overall nerfed. Not to mention trickster, who was also nerfed.

in Have you lost hope in dbd and their balance philosophy? Comment by woundcowboy November 24, 2023

The devs only care about survivors. I’m almost glad they nerfed chucky and his perk since it is saving me money.

in Have you lost hope in dbd and their balance philosophy? Comment by woundcowboy November 23, 2023

@itstofuuu99 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3589752#Comment_3589752
how is saying dbd isn’t fun anymore inflammatory? like yeah sure people will disagree which is fine, i’m not saying people aren’t allowed to say otherwise but when they reply saying “no one cares, go play something else then”, it’s not a nice feeling and they deserve to be told where to go, respectfully.
like if you think this post was to get people riled up that’s a you issue, don’t go pinning that on me. the only reason there’s negativity now is because of people like you and the person i replied to, replying to my post looking for someone to argue with or something like ???
do you expect me to just sit back and allow people to speak down on me for having an opinion they disagree with? like nah, that’s not me. cz now there’s a bunch of randoms annoying me cos they’re mad i don’t find dbd fun anymore…lmfao.
seems like there’s just a bunch of miserable people on this forum with nothing better to do than spew hate. you included. bore off.

My issue is that your complaints are completely survivor-biased and based around the fact that needed nerfs are coming to that side. This thread is a cry for sympathy when the reason is that you are mad about losing.

in DBD isn’t fun anymore Comment by woundcowboy November 21, 2023

This whole thread would be a non issue if the game were balanced properly. High MMR isn’t fun because the game is balanced around survivors who don’t know what they’re doing. Even when it is possible to win, you have to play in a very boring way. I don’t feel at all bad for Scott or any streamer that has, for years, been advocating balance around bad players.

in Is the killer being slightly better than the survivors the healthiest way for matchmaking to work? Comment by woundcowboy November 20, 2023

@tjt85 said:
Tunnelling out a Survivor as quickly as possible is simply one of the most obvious and easy ways to win the game. You'd have to be brain dead not to realise this within the first 5 minutes of playing Killer. I remember in my first ever Killer game I camped someone out and thought to myself, well this is easy! Camping and tunnelling weak players off the hook will boost a baby Killer a long way up the MMR ladder in this game because the MMR rarely puts together equally skilled teams.
It just so happens by coincidence that this is also the only way to win the game at the highest level, since the Survivors are so well co-ordinated and individually skilled the Killer won't have nearly enough time to turn the game around in their favour. DBD is unique in the sense that it's a team game that doesn't give you a full set of communication tools. It would be way too strong and cause imbalances. Comp level play exposes how broken this game becomes when you can use external comms and Survivors have access to a complete picture of the game state at all times. It's the dullest version of the game imaginable.
Luckily for the rest of us, nobody needs to follow "comp strats" to have decent success in public games. This is true when playing as Killer or Survivor. You can sneak around the map, hide, do gens, never get chased once and still manage to escape. You can spread pressure and go for 6-8 hooks before anyone is sacrificed and still win (or at least draw) in most of your Killer games.
I just wish much of the player base realised that.

You can’t know ahead of time how your opponent is going to play. I’ve had plenty of killer matches where I definitely could have player nicer and still won, but there was no indication. Therefore my default is to play to win and not assume the survivors are chill.

in Why can baby killers easily do comp strats? Comment by woundcowboy November 18, 2023

@Anti051 said:
God loops are just as bad as short loops imo.
Virtually nothing the killer can do at a god loop and virtually nothing the survivor can do at a short loop.
On 50/50's there's PvP. On short/god loops, it's like taking turns winning.

Which is why I think 50/50 loops should be the standard. I have yet to hear a good argument as to how god loops are good design. I can only assume it’s because they want oppressive gameplay.

in How are strong pallets justified? Comment by woundcowboy November 13, 2023

@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3583957#Comment_3583957
If we are gonna remove all decent loops and make them mind-gameable all top tier killers will get good nerfs for make them balanced because even now, with these strong loops they are doing so fine.
And ofcourse, Bloodlust exists as well. If we are gonna make it whoever played better type loops, then this mechanic need to go as well. Survivor should not be punished when killer lost all mind-games and played poorly.

I’d have no problem with killer adjustments and blood lust if the loops were rebalanced.

in How are strong pallets justified? Comment by woundcowboy November 13, 2023

@Seraphor said:
Thing about god pallets, is you break the pallet, and it no longer exists. It costs you one chase, maybe even just 20-30 seconds of a chase, and then you have the rest of the game without it.
Killers with anti-loop or chase powers, have those powers for the entire game. They don't use them once and that's it, one instant down and gone.
So as Pulsar said, not comparable.
Pallets exist to slow down the killer and buy some time. They're finite, and some are stronger than others. That's simply how the game is balanced, survivors get limited resources to buy as much time as possible, and it's up to them to use thosr resources wisely, skillfully. God pallets are the freebie, the one guaranteed chase extender to give survivors regardless of skill level a fighting chance, the other pallets take more skill to use.

I don’t feel that pallets are that limited though. There are more than enough to last the match. 20-30 seconds can easily be the difference between winning and losing. In fact, I think that a lot of killer wins are the result of survivors trying to be too cute in conserving pallets when they could have just pre dropped.

in How are strong pallets justified? Comment by woundcowboy November 13, 2023

@Xernoton said:
1 or 2 god pallets aren't an issue. It sucks that you have to break them with no way to play around them (other than a few niche scenarios) but once they're gone, they're gone. Meaning, the strongest resources of the map are used up and you only have to care about the rest of the (hopefully) weaker pallets.
However, I very much agree, that a good portion of all structures are not very interactive from a killer's POV. No matter what you do, you can't get a hit anyway, so why even bother mind gaming? This is the case with some of the pallets on the Azarov maps, some main buildings, shack, jungle gyms, the excavator on Ormond and more. In these cases, you'll find most killers without oppressive chase powers simply running after you with not much thought put into it because it's more efficient than spending time on a mind game, that won't work anyway.
However, you also need some of these busted loops because inexperienced survivors can't play around the more fair structures (like TL walls). And if they get hit on every loop, then obviously, they won't have fun and no incentive to improve. After all, why would you play a game that is not enjoyable? This would dramatically decrease the appeal for newer players.
This is quite the dilemma, honestly. In low MMR, this is just fine. But the higher you go, the more problematic it becomes.

I can’t get behind that mentality. I learned this game by playing and losing a lot. You can’t occasionally play a pvp game and expect to do well against people who know the game.

in How are strong pallets justified? Comment by woundcowboy November 12, 2023

@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3583947#Comment_3583947
Likely because you're better than the vast majority of your opponents. And before you deny it, there are different aspects to skill.
I'm not mechanically gifted, I have poor eyesight and one ear doesn't work well. However, I know human behavior and I can play macro extremely well, and that allows me to be "better" than most of my opponents.
What is, in your opinion, an ideal pallet?
And, conversely, what pallets/loop structures would you want to see removed.

I think Hawkins is a pretty good setup. There are two strong rooms (but not oppressive) and a bunch of pallets you can mindgame. The Game in general needs a drastic rework, as do most of the breakable walls since they tend to favor survivor. TL walls are perfect to me since, even if I miss or get hit, it pretty much comes down to me being read. I don’t mind losing like that, but I do mind structures that are essentially safe zones.

in How are strong pallets justified? Comment by woundcowboy November 12, 2023

@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3583937#Comment_3583937
Killers that I have been able to reliably get HITS with at jungle gyms:
Wraith, Doc, Huntress, Nurse, Spirit, Legion, Oni, Demogorgon, Pyramid Head, Blight, Twins, Nemesis, Pinhead, Artist, Wesker, Knight and Alien.
Most of those Killers will disappear if you play against comp teams, but even still, I did manage to beat up a few back in the day using Blight and Wesker.
Survivors do need safe structures. Jungle Gyms are reliable and decently strong, but not impervious. I have mindgamed MANY Survivors on the short-wall of the jungle gym. The game cannot be an entire match of 50/50 TL's. Nor can it be ######### filler pallets that you get hit at unless you stun the Killer.

Then why am I safe 99% of the time at those tiles as survivor? You listed half the roster, which still leaves the other half of killers who can do absolutely nothing at that tile. Why can’t most pallets be a 50/50? What’s so wrong with the survivors actually having to mindgame instead of being guaranteed safety?

I win the vast majority of my killer matches. When I lose, the formula is pretty much the same: they hear me coming, they get a huge head start, and even if I’m able to start the chase, instant safe pallet drop. All pallets should have a mind game.

in How are strong pallets justified? Comment by woundcowboy November 12, 2023

@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3583926#Comment_3583926
Ah, yes, I thought as much.
I am gonna take a really wild guess. Is the T-L the best structure in the game to you?

The two aren’t even remotely comparable. A t-l wall is a 50/50 guess. A jungle gym has a pallet that severely limits the killer’s mindgames. A hit isn’t happening unless they can turn off the glow or teleport like spirit.

in How are strong pallets justified? Comment by woundcowboy November 12, 2023

@Pulsar said:
It may surprise you to learn that some things are NOT equivalent in an asymmetrical game. However, I do think your point has some potential to be interesting, so here we go.
There are very few god loops left, most of which are fairly universally agreed to be unfair. Badham House of Pain and Garden of Joy's main building come to mind, perhaps a Haddonfield House, depending on RNG and the Killer.
However, I suspect you have a MUCH broader definition of god loop. Is that accurate?

A god loop is anything that the killer is forced to break and can’t mindgame. Jungle gyms are a common example, with some outlier killers that can make plays on them. The only time I get hit there as a survivor is if I have a total brain fart. And yes I understand it’s asym, but shouldn’t the killer have an advantage in the chase for that reason? It’s 1v4.

in How are strong pallets justified? Comment by woundcowboy November 12, 2023

@DEMONANCE said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3583215#Comment_3583215
singularity is not low reward this is just something people who never give him a chance keep parroting.
he's an oppressive killer in chase and has one of the most unique and versatile gameplay.

His power doesn’t even ensure that you get a hit when you set it up right. Compare that to Nurse who allows me to blink, wesker, or even deathslinger. Singularity is the single biggest example of overcomplicatd, failed design. He is too much effort for way too little reward.

in Are complex killers a failed design? Comment by woundcowboy November 12, 2023

@Crowman said:
I wouldn't say complex killers are failed designs, but there's a point where the complexity of a power isn't worth learning. Considering DBD has strong killers with low complexity, a high complexity really needs something worthwhile and that's usually where BHVR fails.

I kind of agree with your sentiments except that I do think complexity is usually a failed design. Modern bhvr killers require a ton of effort for very little reward (see singularity). I think they should make more complex killers more powerful

in Are complex killers a failed design? Comment by woundcowboy November 11, 2023

God loops/pallets are the most glaring unfair thing to me. It blows my mind that people complain about “uninteractive” killers like Nurse and old DS, yet have no problem with survivors having the most uninteractive thing in the game.

in What do you think is genuinely unfair in this game? Comment by woundcowboy November 10, 2023

@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3566636#Comment_3566636
Her mobility definitely isnt the strongest part of her kit but to say its weaker than average is just wrong, which is what OP is implying here

At best it’s the same as m1 killers (minus two story maps). The perception in this thread is “she has a teleport!” Yet people don’t realize that it does little for map control.

in Nurse blinking is slower than a walking 4.6m/s killer. Comment by woundcowboy October 19, 2023

@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3566581#Comment_3566581
Ok but compare that to a normal 4.6 killer and they would need to walk around the entire thing.

It’s probably the same thing is what I’m saying. If it’s not, it’s really close. This thread really highlights how little the community knows about Nurse. Her power is strong because of chase. Her map mobility is whatever

in Nurse blinking is slower than a walking 4.6m/s killer. Comment by woundcowboy October 19, 2023

@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3566295#Comment_3566295
who half charges a blink to get around the map??

Did you not understand what I said? Some objects take more of the charge to get through, so it can take the full charge just for it to spit you out the other side. In other words, you get through the object but get no additional distance. Leary’s is a great example of this.

in Nurse blinking is slower than a walking 4.6m/s killer. Comment by woundcowboy October 19, 2023

@Shroompy said:
This is assuming there are 0 obstacles in the way, which in the large majority of cases there are.

You get less distance with your blink if there are obstacles in the way because it takes more charge to get through it. I would bet she is still slower, even accounting for obstacles.

in Nurse blinking is slower than a walking 4.6m/s killer. Comment by woundcowboy October 19, 2023

@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3565330#Comment_3565330
Thats why i quit being a killer main.
Try survivor, even SoloQ is a lot more fun, less stressing and you have the freedom to play around with perks as you like.

I play survivor but find it incredibly dull and repetitive.

in Just feeling really pathetic right now :( Comment by woundcowboy October 18, 2023

@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3565226#Comment_3565226
Honest question; do you think it's really worse, or that you just cumulatively had enough of it and something just happened recently that was the straw that broke the camel's back?
I've been playing since 2019, and feel like I've been getting screwed by RNG the whole time. I've just realized how much I've been getting screwed more as time has gone on. But at no time has the game been fair and balanced.

The game has never been perfect, but slow down perks used to exist and there wasn’t MMR before, so games were more manageable. Now if I want to win, I have to choose a side of the map to defend and tunnel someone out ASAP. Add to that nerfs to my mains that make them unfun to play, and that makes the game no fun. It’s sad because this game had potential.

in Just feeling really pathetic right now :( Comment by woundcowboy October 18, 2023

@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3564954#Comment_3564954
Except that a lot of the time it is RNG? I mean some map/killer/tile spawn combos are just handing you a loss. That's just how it is and has always been. Probably always will be. That's just DBD: a unbalanced and often random mess that min many cases has very little real skill requisites. You might be on a great run and then just get absolutely shat on like 2-3 times in a row.
I mean how many games have you had where you matched up against some poor noobs in another MMR shart and just ground them into dust in like 5 minutes? How do you think that felt for them? Do recognize that knife cuts both ways?
The combination of nonexistent map balance, useless SBMM (because you can't quantify skill in this game), and plain old RNG BS pretty much guarantees you're gonna have an uneven experience.
Regardless of your role, unless you do nothing but play DBD and/or with a skilled team, it's just going to be a cycle of owning and getting owned. Sometimes you're the hammer, sometimes you're the nail. You have to be willing to be humbled from time to time and just move on and not dwell on it.
And I disagree about killer being so rough. I've been playing for years, and I don't think it's that bad. If pressed, I'd say right before 6.1.0 was the worst time to be a killer (though I wasn't around at the very beginning, and I understand that was worse).
I think some people who play killer are just looking for a power trip experience, honestly (I would say the same thing about people who only play in 4 man SWF).

Been playing since 2018 and this is easily the least enjoyable it has ever been. I uninstalled. Any game that screws you outright with RNG isn’t worth my time.

in Just feeling really pathetic right now :( Comment by woundcowboy October 17, 2023

Nurse is fine, you don’t know how to play.

in When is Nurse getting gutted? Comment by woundcowboy October 12, 2023

@ArthurVeloso said:
I have played 5 games so far, and in 4 of them, killers just stay near the hook for about 8 seconds then they proxy camp from a very close distance. It ensures the person to goes to another hook stage while not activating the anti camp measure. Please, check this.

How dare the killers don’t let you get off the hook for free after they outplayed you in chase.

in Killers are abusing the 7 second window Comment by woundcowboy October 11, 2023

@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3546445#Comment_3546445
It's a hypothetical. Presuming perfect play by both sides, who wins?
In a symmetrical game if both sides played identically you get a draw. But this isn't a symmetrical game - thus if the two played perfectly, one would have to be favored.
I'd argue that it makes sense that the survivors win in this hypothetical scenario, as there are four of them the chance that none of them will make a mistake is a lot less likely.
The question though is whether the nurse reverses this trend. It's not about whether a perfect game is even possible, even with comp level breakdowns there's lots of tiny mistakes that are spotted.

I think against all but 2 killers, survivors who play perfectly will win 10/10 times. It simply isn’t possible to kill everyone with your basic killers because tiles and map design are unfair. I do think Nurse is at a slight disadvantage because of how fast gens can go, but she at least has a chance.

in Alien nerf is a message, play Nurse/Blight/Wesker instead Comment by woundcowboy September 20, 2023

@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3546356#Comment_3546356
I was being intentionally dismissive of what you said because you have been saying random arbitrary stuff with little to no relationship to what I'm saying. I talk about how nurse with ideal play on a good map with unrestricted perks can destroy even a coordinated SWF with ideal play, and you dismiss the idea that a nurse could achieve ideal play while assuming survivors can do the same. I point out the double standard and you start waffling about how technically a perfect nurse bot doesn't exist. I point out that by the same standard a perfect survivor bot doesn't exist and you start talking about the theoretical possibility of a perfect survivor bot, once again ignoring that a perfect nurse bot is equally hypothetically possible, and also wandering further from the original point.
I cannot possibly hope to fathom why it is you keep going on these tangents that get wildly further and further from the original point. It certainly feels quite disrespectful to try to respond to the point that we should either compare theoretical flawless play on one side against flawless play on the other, or assume both sides are equally capable of making mistakes; by talking about the theoretical capabilities of creating AI players on only one side (???). I know if I, personally, chose to do that, it would be out of a desire to convey that level of disrespect.

You’re talking about matches as like they are a simulation or something. It is contradictory to compare “ideal” play because if one side wins, the other one didn’t play ideally. That’s the nature of pvp games. So yes, Nurse can win if she makes 100% correct reads, but the same can be said of survivors. My point is that survivors can outplay the Nurse, contrary to what most people say on this forum.