woundcowboy
woundcowboy
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@coco_shotz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3530757#Comment_3530757
It is because the killer is new, nobody knows how to play as or against it and the games are not anywhere near "tunnel forgiveness" so yes it is constructive to tell you to learn how to play as something before you resort to the tackiest playstyle in dbd existence. We all paid for and wanna play the game and asking to do that is not a crime. Also let me reiterate again. 5 GEN TUNNELING. meaning no gens done, nothing to show that you can't actually engage in gameplay other than shear ego. Someone with a nurse icon I don't expect to understand that tho
I play more survivor than killer these days, but no, I don’t understand the level of entitlement spewing from the forum. You didn’t pay the killer player for the chapter. Get your money’s worth by playing, learning, and keeping your mouth shut until you learn.
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@coco_shotz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3530740#Comment_3530740
No it's constructive criticism which seems to be very difficult to get across on the forums.
It’s not constructive to expect people to “play chill.” It’s expecting people to play by your made up rules.
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@coco_shotz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3529742#Comment_3529742
The thing is I don't play this game that seriously so my MMR is not up there so idk why a killer needs to act like this when it's not a 4 man swf sweat squad. Not everyone is grouped up and coming after the killer. Play the game and get the kills organically for now and then tunnel when survivors show that it needs to be done
Just because you play a certain way doesn’t mean the killer should. That is pure narcissism.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3530730#Comment_3530730
And who you are saying that?
Someone who has put a lot of time into learning the game. It should take time how to learn use turrets and deny the killer power. Instead, you have people on this forum stamping their feet and demanding easier matches.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
So what is point of this post?
This is forum.
People are free to complain about anything if they want.
This does not mean they are right or wrong. It's just feedback.
End of the day, devs will take these feedbacks, check their data and change if there is actually problem.
But your post is very pointless and shaming people who is just sharing their opinions.
Day 1 complaints don’t deserve to be heard
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@Peanits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3527077#Comment_3527077
With all due respect, you do not know anything about this mechanic yet and cannot possibly say whether or not it holds your hand. Trying to dispel something under the guise of being hand holdy without having any info on it is silly, and frankly you could apply that same logic to anything (where it also wouldn't hold up to any scrutiny).
I find that what you're doing here is downplaying how strong and frustrating this strategy can be while simultaneously trying to turn this into an us vs. them situation. If your loyalty to one side is causing you to argue against fixing overly powerful or frustrating gameplay that the other side may face, then you've shown you don't actually care for things like fun and balance as much as your care about your own experience. You can acknowledge how people feel when they're stuck in a scenario like this and still want improvements on your end as well. The two are not mutually exclusive.
People feeling a certain way doesn’t mean that they are right. People complained about gen defense and you proceeded to completely neuter it, which, along with Skull Merchant, made 3 genning and tunneling more prominent. How can you not see through these mountains of complaints as people being sore losers?
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@CatnipLove said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3521723#Comment_3521723
I tried playing some survivor matches tonight and it has sucked. Almost every killer is hard tunneling and hook camping at 5 gens. It's almost shocking how consistent it is.
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BHVR needs to fix the tunneling problem. This game will never be healthy as long as one player can unilaterally make the match miserable for everyone involved. I don't want a win, I just want a match where I'm not desperately trying to keep some poor player alive because the killer is in a bad mood and wants to harass the weakest link out of the game before any gens have been completed.
I try to empathise with killer mains, but I don't understand this. I genuinely can't think of any multiplayer game where I've prioritised winning over having fun. Some players are only happy when they win, I can't help those people. But I can make a conscious effort to not target the weakest and most vulnerable players, who are already having a bad time. Killer players are aware of how miserable it is for a survivor to be targetted and pushed out of the game before they've barely gotten to play, but they do it anyway.
I have a genuine question: Is winning that important? If a game forced me to play in an unsociable manner I'd just play something else.
I don’t have fun when I feel like I played well and the survivors are able to use 2nd 3rd and 4th chances to make my efforts not matter.
@JonOzzie16 said:
This is unfortunately where all the nerfs to survivors have led us. Survivors literally have nothing to do now except generators. Healing, booning totems, etc. Are a waste of time now. If survivors do not complete gens quickly, they do not escape.
Once made for this is nerfed, survivors will probably just hide and do gens. They won't even want to be chased anymore. So expect the gen speeds to go up again.
Edit: killers will always have an excuse to play any way they want. There was a good reason to tunnel last meta, there will be another good reason this meta. And next meta as well. A brand new good reason to tunnel. That's not ever changing. So let's stop blaming survivors for it.
I would make the opposite argument: we are here because survivors got gen regression nuked and killers have to play defensively to win. Slugging and camping and tunneling have always been a thing, but I wouldn’t support removing them in this meta.
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3520143#Comment_3520143
Sorry, I forgot you get 4 man SWFs only.
I prepare as such, yea. The first time I don’t prepare to play all out, I often get a sweaty group. I’d rather be prepared and not need to play hard than have to play hard and not have the tools
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3519502#Comment_3519502
Wow, I didn't know Artist, Plague, Pinhead, Pyramid Head and more are weaker than Trapper, Pig, Myers, GF. You should make your own tier list and post it in the forum.
Those killers don’t matter against good survivors.
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
than M1 and Nurse/Blight, just wanted to remind that to everyone. Adding Wesker as well.
“Play weaker killers so I can win more.”
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@Biscuits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3519149#Comment_3519149
Okay but whose running base regression builds. Were talking about Pop, Jolt, Scourge... etc. It is extremely easy to camp a 3 gen and win every game. The only person who appears to be coping is you, the game literally has never been easier for the killer. The statistics back that up that fact. If you were to ask any survivor worth their salt what the issues are they would 100% bring up gen regression.
Those perks have been nerfed so heavily that even together, it is easy to power through gens.
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@Biscuits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3517667#Comment_3517667
I think the fact that most people would rather sit injured and run perks like MFT and Resilience is proof that healing has been over nerfed. I would agree with you that during the boon meta it was too strong, but it is definitely not broken right now. If anything healing is under tuned for survivors right now. Gen regression and 3 gens have never been addressed properly. Anytime a regression perk is nerfed it's just changed out for a different regression perk.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3517691#Comment_3517691
Look at the stats, regression perks are still ran more than anything else. Play as a survivor right now and try to find a killer running a non regression build, it's pretty rare. Perks fall off, but they are just changed out for other regression perks. They wouldn't need to nerf regression perks individually every patch if they just capped gen regression. I still see Eruption, Overcharge, Pain resonance, Jolt, Pop often enough that they are all definitely still meta.
Regression baseline needs to be looked at, which it never has been. If anything with the kick change, it was actually buffed. Baseline regression was buffed.
Massive amounts of copium here. Gen regression is horrendous, both with base stats and with perks. A survivor does a gen 4 times faster than it regresses. It is the worst it has ever been.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3517282#Comment_3517282
I think it falls under the category of the devs see this game as casual. And considering it's their game I guess it has to be casual regardless of how you look at it.
Except again, nothing about the game is casual. I think when people say they want it balanced to be casual, they are actually saying that they want easier wins.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3516347#Comment_3516347
The game isn't designed or built competitively (it's only competitive in players brains) and heavily relies on RNG. Due to these factors this is why they balance around the majority and not the few.
If this wasn't the case then I would fully support the game balanced around high level. But it's not.
This game isn’t casual. It was overwhelming when I started playing in 2018, and is even more so now due to all of the content. This is a common talking point that I hear and it is completely wrong. It takes a ton of time to learn how to play properly. The devs should embrace the fact that the game is obtuse and balance around those who stick around. If they are balancing to make the game casual, then they are failing miserably.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3516222#Comment_3516222
The amount of extremely high players is a miniscule fraction likely less than 1% of all players. Balance for 99% or 1%? Take your pick.
Balance for people who play the game, not the Claudette crouching around the map and not helping the team. It seems like an obvious choice to me.
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@Beatricks said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3516016#Comment_3516016
So then how is it possible that one of the most well known Survivor player that should by all reasonable accounts be well over the MMR cap got matched against a killer with 97 hours in the game? I understand that playtime doesn't equate to skill, but I find it impossible to accept that a multiple competition winning survivor was pitted against someone who only recently picked up the game and matchmaking was doing a pretty good job so far.
It’s because they are again showing that they don’t care about their most loyal, veteran players. He straight up said that this happens more often at the extremes of the MMR brackets. It’s the same reason they balance the game for scrubs who occasionally play. They don’t care.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3514975#Comment_3514975
I mean fair, but then again how often does it happen that an otherwise baby killer gets multiple kills just because of noed? Ofc you will remember those games better because the guy got destroyed the entire game and maybe 2-3 hooks and then got lucky because of one perk.
You’re proving my point…. A perk that does that 1 in 10 matches isn’t a good perk
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3514843#Comment_3514843
The question is what would the killer have gotten if he didnt have noed but a different perks? Many times the killer only manages to get those 1-2 kills because he had noed, I mean thats pretty huge for a perk if it basically gives you on 1-2 kills on average..
I started doing better when I got rid of it and focused on either gen regression or tracking perks. I think NOED is the most notable example of confirmation bias in this game. People only remember the match that they died because of NOED, and not the matches in which it made no difference.
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It isn’t a good perk. In my experience as both survivor and killer, those type of games usually end in 1-2k for the killer. It is very rare that the killer gets everyone because of NOED.
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@MDRSan said:
Has it occurred to you that perhaps survivors role in this asynchronous game inherently requires these types of perks to be balanced? A bear only needs to win one chase with unlimited retry opportunities where its prey needs to win every chase.
Except that comparison doesn’t work at all. Dbd is like if the prey had to be caught three times to be dead. There’s also 4 of them.
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@BlueHorkew said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3514011#Comment_3514011
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3514015#Comment_3514015
I was talking about design of the perks, i never said if the perks are good or bad.
Also, don't come with the talk like all killer perks are bad. Killers have way more variety of builds and fun stuff to try out, thanks to different powers and sinergies. Thats what i do when playing killer.
I am so tired of seeing complaints about every single perk. Both sides have broken stuff.
MFT is 2 perks in one slot for some reason, yes the perk is kinda overtuned. There is no need for arguments that don't even make sense "Oh my god we are rewarding mistakes, what a crime", dude the game is full of mechanics that reward mistakes.
The game isn't fair, so enough of this self victimizing atitude.
Case and point, all of the best killer perks are good, because they give you free value for doing absolutely nothing, just like survivor's best perks. You got value because you decided to pick the perk.
Which (good) killer perks give things for free? The only one I can think of is NOED, and I have never thought it is a good perk. On the contrary most of the meta killer perks in the past have required the killers to do something like get a down/hook or kick a gen. All survivor stuff is straight up given.
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@BlueHorkew said:
They are comback perks, or perks that help you when in trouble. Both sides have perks like that.
NOED, Enduring, bitter murmur, coupe de grace... They all only activate by you not doing anything or by making mistakes.
It's not something new or unfair.
Do you notice any disparity between survivor and killer “comeback perks?” All of those killer perks you listed are awful/borderline unusable. That’s not true of the survivor perks.
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@spagz said:
This is a serious question for killers. Do you guys really have fun face camping, tunneling, bleeding, slugging etc? I truly want to know because it has been happening more than before. Is it because the event? Challenges? I’m not talking about when there’s 1-2 gens left because I totally get that. I’m asking the killers who will use these “strategies” at 4-5 gens. I’m also not talking about when survivors are being toxic because I am not a fan of when my teammates do that for no reason. I’m just curious and want to know why I’ve been seeing more and more killers do that. Please no arguing or negative comments 😁. This is a serious question.
While facecamping isn’t something I do (unless the game is over and I have no choice) the other strategies are needed to win against decent survivors. The only killer that can freely go for chases constantly is Nurse, which is why I main her.
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@MDRSan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3513011#Comment_3513011
The devs also designed the same loops you're now calling unfair so clearly them favoring the survivors is a fundamental part of the game's design. You also seem to be analyzing game elements in isolation when measuring which side is 'stronger'. For example, killers don't have to sit at stationary targets for minutes at a time while vulnerable to attack and having their progress reverted. Killers can't be killed, harmed, or arbitrarily stunned unless they walk into an environmental hazard that survivors can activate.
Predropping a safe pallet is a choice, like anything done in this game. Do you know who the killer is yet? Do you know how well they loop? It's not a default, always do this action.
Mindgames require giving the other party misleading information, withholding follow up information, and hoping they guess what you're doing incorrectly. Yes, there is skill involved in pulling it off. You must also acknowledge there's a good deal of random chance involved as well. At its core, it relies on guess work. How fair do you think that would feel to the other side if every tile was like that? Outmindgaming someone is just a grandiose way of saying someone faked someone else out or they correctly guessed the other party was trying to fake them out. It is not the end all, be all of skilled play.
This talk of there not being counterplay to strong pallets seems to suggest the mere presence of a pallet or strong tile means you aren't getting a down. Given that infinites were removed the only way a killer won't get a down on someone they're chasing is if they chose to stop the chase themselves. That's not necessarily the wrong choice depending on the circumstances but it's not a situation where one can just throw their hands up and say - welp, this pallet just caused a 4 man out. There is not a single pallet in the game that can make a killer lose a chase all by itself. Break it and continue on to down the survivor you're after if downing that one person right then is what you want to do.
Perhaps you can explain how, if all strong tiles and pallets were removed, survivors would stand a chance of surviving long enough to have a realistic expectation of escape?
You’re right, there isn’t a single pallet that causes the game to be lost-there are 20+ on most maps. And yea, I would feel fine if winning or losing depended on me guessing right at a pallet because that’s how most games work. I didn’t say there should be no strong tiles, but they need to be significantly reduced from what they are currently.
This is all frustrating because we have been at points in dbd in which the game seemed to be heading in a good direction. But as always, the crybabies are loudest and always get their way, which is how we get survivor-controlled killers like singularity.
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@Dinoraptus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3513011#Comment_3513011
Knowing when to predrop versus when to not to preserve a pallet is part of what makes a good or bad survivor, so yes. Some killers require predropped pallets, some you can loop at pallets, some you can't even use pallets against, etc.
This game isn't really comparable to something like Street Fighter, this isn't an even playing field, it is an asym. In Street Fighter both players can run the same thing if they want. There is a power imbalance between opposing sides in DBD, something like a 50/50 in DBD isn't really possible, we just call it that because it is a guess. It is probably closer to like an 80/20 depending on which side has more info, this is why game knowledge is so crucial.
But guessing in DBD almost always favors Killer, which is fine because it is the power role, but that is also why you can't balance around 50/50 mindgames in an asym.
Any shared mechanic in this game favors killer, windows and vaults favor killer (not right now but that is getting reverted), hooks favor killer, etc. Again, this is fine, it is by design.
Pallets are a survivor mechanic, only suvivors can use pallets, they should favor suvivors for that reason. You wouldn't expect a mechanic meant to help you favor your opponents in any other game. You are acting like there aren't safe pallets that you can mind game, because just like the unsafe pallets, safe pallets come in all shapes and sizes. The only unmindgameable pallets are the ones that directly block you, and each map maybe has like 2 of those, that again, can be broken.
In what universe is a pure guess on both sides an 80/20? That makes no sense. Bear in mind, a healthy survivor that gets hit at an unsafe loop still gets a speed boost to make another tile. The mindgames might not be as deep in dbd as in fighting games, but they are still there.
And no, predropping pallets isn’t skillful. There are way too many pallets on most maps for it to matter. It isn’t resource management when there is such a huge supply. I also think predropping is the optimal strategy. Too many survivors think they are being fancy by looping, when they are able to stay safe and waste a ton of time.
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@Dinoraptus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3512940#Comment_3512940
I am fine with counter play, by your description of dead hard it still needs nerfed because you can still DH at pallets like before.
Also, I am not sure you get what unsafe pallets are.
What is the point of pallet breaking as a mechanic if you basically want to ignore all pallets. The fact that they are strong is countered by the fact they are finite and removable. So yes, the survivor should have an advantage when it comes to most pallets, they are a survivor mechanic, killers cannot use pallets. The counter to pallets is that they can be used once and broken then never used again.
Unsafe pallets are called unsafe because they favor the killer instead, think the pallet between two small rocks that a killer can just walk around. It is practically impossible to not win chases if your monitor is turned on.
You are asking for the game to be boiled down to 50/50 mindgames, that is the exact reason they changed Spirit and Slinger. Guessing is actually not counter play, you aren't making a skilled decision or choice, it is entirely luck.
Right, so top players in Street Fighter and all fighting games are just lucky and luck their way into making thousands of dollars. Guessing/reading is a skill. Predropping a safe pallet is devoid of all skill.
I also disagree that pallets should favor a survivor. If anything, since dbd is a 4v1, the killer should be favored in chase/at pallets. I’m pretty sure the devs designed the game with this in mind, which is why killers are faster. Unfortunately, that doesn’t matter at safe loops.
@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3512940#Comment_3512940
Oh you don’t understand what an unsafe pallet is. Lol. Well that clears up a whole lot.
An unsafe pallet is a pallet that is too short to loop around and the survivor has to get a stun to win the scenario. This is how the game should be designed. Imagine trying to insult someone while revealing your lack of knowledge in the process xD.
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@Dinoraptus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3512917#Comment_3512917
Isn't that the same thing that the last version of dead hard was and it was deemed by the general community as to strong? It even had the same issues with latency that pallets do. I understand that DH was anywhere and unlimited but the idea is the same, eventually people would complain about even unsafe pallets.
If pallet stuns were consistent or good then smash hit would be the most popular suvivor perk. Unsafe pallets are good as filler, I enjoy the challenge of them but to suggest every pallet should be unsafe is labotomizing the killer roll to nothing. A survivor centric mechanic should favor the survivors. You would never lose another chase.
How would killer never lose another chase? It’s literally a guess. There are mindgames involved. You either swing or respect the pallet and go to the other side. THAT’S actual gameplay, not this safe loop to safe loop BS. Dead hard was stacked in the survivor’s favor because if they were wrong on dropping the pallet, they could dead hard to take the hit. It sounds like you think that it’s ok for there not to be even counterplay- you think the survivor should aways have an advantage.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3512725#Comment_3512725
Nor should unsafe pallets or tiles by your logic. There’s no way for survivors to gain distance with them.
That’s totally wrong. If the survivor stuns the killer with an unsafe pallet, they gain distance. If the killer guesses right, the survivor is hit. How is that not fair?
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@Dinoraptus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3512064#Comment_3512064
Not everything in this game has direct counter-play for sure, but the fact that once the pallet is down in shack the tile becomes half as useful as it is because the threat of the pallet is gone, I feel like that makes the tile perfectly fine.
Survivors rely on distance to continue chases to buy time for their team to do gens, there are some pallets that have to be broken, most pallets don't, survivors need occasional strong tiles to buy more time or they would all go down in 10 seconds.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3512359#Comment_3512359
Just because someone struggles with or doesn't like playing some of the more difficult tiles doesn't mean they are bad, at no point did I say you were bad. But at this point I am wondering what you enjoy about killer if not chasing complex tiles?
If every tile sucked and survivors were forced to just dumpster a pallet and w-key until they reached the next bad pallet tile would that not be effectively doing the same thing? You are saying autopilot playing is bad, but you also don't want the survivors to loop strong tiles, most players aren't going to loop bad tiles, at least not for very long. You are essentially asking for the game to be w-keying in a straight line until the survivor does down.
I am asking for tiles/pallets that include mindgames and the opportunity for either side to make a read and get a hit/gain distance. God pallets should not exist.
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@Moonras2 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3511941#Comment_3511941
I'm not going to go into what I think the game is balanced around but I will say that there are lots of things that people don't want to go against in this game. It is what it is. If the MMR is working as intended, and someone is getting matched up against people of a similar skill level, then that is how it should be. Not being able to shop for lower MMR or lower hour players.
The 5k hours doesn't matter at that point. By leaving the lobby you are opening it up to being filled by a killer that is much less skilled than the opponent. It isn't fair to them.That being said I'd like to see changes to how MMR is figured up anyway.
I think locking the lobby is a good idea. It would kind of make it even across the board as far as being able to dodge what someone doesn't to play against.
I don’t shop for anything other than to avoid seal teams, and that’s only if I’m not playing Nurse. Like I’m expected to play Pig against an experienced team on a bad map? No thanks. One of the problems with MMR in this game is the game overall has a pretty low skill ceiling. If you know tiles, map layout, and basic mind games, you’re set. Granted it takes time to learn those things, but it isn’t a huge mental load. Basic m1 killers generally can’t catch survivors before they finish the gens, which is why tunneling and camping are so popular. You can’t outskill someone at safe loops.
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3511179#Comment_3511179
you are aware that I'm not a programmer or designer etc and that the Community Team does not make decisions for those other departments? My idea is one idea and yes it would actually work in solving the issue that is lobby dodging in general - players have always dodged lobbies it's been something that's happened since the game began, maybe it's time that lobbies were locked when you join them - I don't really see anything bad about that.
Maybe killers don’t want to go against 5,000 hour survivors in a game that is balanced around a low level of play.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3508030#Comment_3508030
PGTW made its comeback with the most recent Buff. How is Pain Res only good on High Tier Killers? Even a Clown can get value out of it. Jolt is decent and the most used Killer-Perk for a reason. Deadlock exists as well. And you have general Slowdown like Sloppy Butcher which is very present in the game.
You can still stack Slowdown as much as you like and it is (sadly) still as good as ever. Saying that it got "gutted" is really wrong, but not unexpected from this community. Only because you cannot win games by default anymore with Eruption etc. does not mean that Slowdown-Perks are gutted.
Pain res is awful. It is too rng based. Most of the killers I’ve gone against who were using it lost badly. Regression has been destroyed gradually over the last few years
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3507769#Comment_3507769
This gutted gen regression... Is it currently in the room?
Unless you mean that gutted = Eruption/Call of Brine/Overcharge is not a thing anymore...
Ruin nerfed, pop killed, overcharge killed, Brine destroyed, eruption barely useable on most killers, pain res only benefits the high tier killers. Jolt, the most popular killer perk, does a laughable amount of regression. That should tell you all you need to know about the current state of gen perks.
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@RakimSockem said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3507879#Comment_3507879
there is literally no situation in which you CAN'T catch a survivor unless you're bad or you've reached end game using a slow killer and they have multiple perks stacked to increase their speed so the situation you're describing is literally just made up. The situations I described happen daily
You will always catch the survivor, but if they know anything about the game, you won’t catch them in time. That’s why defensive play is strong for killer. It forces survivors off gens
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@RakimSockem said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3507868#Comment_3507868
I mentioned the survivor perspective because that's the role where the fun you have gets dictated for you by how the killer plays. In the examples I gave that happened today, a person being camped in the basement doesn't get to choose how the remainder of the match plays out. It also forces the remaining players to rush gens (which is boring) or trade on hook (also being unfun).
Do you know what else is unfun? Following survivors around a loop that is totally safe, which is then linked to another safe loop. Or how about endurance bs being used to rob the killer of hooks? You don’t get to claim you meant to address both sides when your OP read like a survivor raging about a game they had today.
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@RakimSockem said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3507781#Comment_3507781
For the record, I also play killer and am not a "survivor only" player
Your entire rant was from the perspective of a survivor player disliking the killer playing for a 4k. You told on yourself.
@About8Genjis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3507781#Comment_3507781
Oh no! How entitled of a non-meta build using survivor to ask others to not hardcore sweat every game and try out new and fun builds! How dare they ask for more fun and variety!
Who is supposed to be the entitled one here?
Also how nice of you to make it an "Us vs them" argument. They complained about the community mindset, meaning everyone, killers AND survivors. They just happen to notice it more when playing survivor.
Every game has a meta. When you choose to use off meta builds, you have to accept that you will win less. If you don’t like it, quit.
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@RakimSockem said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3507769#Comment_3507769
thank you for literally backing up what I'm saying about the mindset of the community.
No problem. Thanks for proving how entitled survivors are. “Play for my fun!!” 😭
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@RakimSockem said:
This game is currently insufferable and has been pretty much since the Knight came out when playing survivor. And the issue isn't really any particular killer or the game itself, but it's the community and I will stand behind that statement 100%
it's the "i don't care about your fun, I want my 4k, I'm going to play in the most "efficient" way possible attitude that the community has that makes this game ABSOLUTELY miserable to play. You can't just hop on and have fun anymore. everyone's "playing to win" and slugging for 4ks and tunneling people out of games for "efficiency" instead of just coming in with the mindset of "This is a game and I'm just going to go in for some good chases and what happens, happens."
Instead we get a nurse who kills 2 people, slugs the 3rd and then spends 3 minutes looking for the last survivor to get their 4k with 4 gens left instead of just letting the game in. And we get a singularity with iron grasp who carries your teammate to the basement, put pods around and inside shack, and then just goes into "sleep mode" in the basement and waits. Why? Just play the damn game and chase people instead of insisting on being boring. And if it was like 1 game a day, whatever. It was 2 hrs straight of boring game after boring game
You can thank the survivor mains for the current state of the game. They cried and cried to get gen regression gutted, and this is what you get. Killers have to play optimally to win. It doesn’t matter if chasing is the most fun part for you; winning is fun for the killer.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3507412#Comment_3507412
For most people, it might be.
For me personally, it's fine. I play very competitively and it works for me.
I'm able to remove myself from that mindset and look at it from a more reasonable perspective.
It isn’t reasonable to assume dbd is a casual game when it’s as dense and knowledge-intensive as it is.
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@Pulsar said:
Not much to this.
I don't think the game can be played at an average casual level anymore. I don't think you can really come home from a long day at work and play a couple of games on either role without the game being more trouble than it's worth.
Whether it's problematic Killer designs that are unfun to play against (Legion and Twins), overtuned characters (Blight and Nurse), Skull Merchant or even just the Killer being outright better than you, the casual Survivor experience is bad.
Whether it's teams that force you to play tactically and try hard, people who abuse certain bugs, people who just like to be frustrating (Boil Over) or just plain good teams; the causal Killer experience isn't much better.
I think that should change for both roles. I don't think you should need to sink 6 hours into a play session whilst being hyper-aware and uber competitive in order to have a chance to have fun.
I don’t get what you want. The game is 7 years old and people have been playing for years, so obviously it is being optimized. I also don’t think anyone on this forum can really consider themselves “casual” since you have to be pretty dedicated to the game to want to post on here.
This is yet another example of how some of you don’t seem to play other games. ALL pvp games get optimized and have a meta. Dbd isn’t special.
It looks like someone might be agreeing that this is the least enjoyable the game has ever been ;)
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3506464#Comment_3506464
I don't have a history of your games that I can just coveniently pull out of thin air to narrow down the possible reasons why you consistently 3-4k by tunneling. I also don't have any idea how long you've been playing the game for. I'm not omniscient.
Like I said, by all means play how you want to. Not dictating what you can and can't do, but I'm also not going to refrain from pointing out that deriving your fun from ruining the experience for others just means that you don't find the game itself fun.
Wrong- winning is fun. That’s my fun.
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3506076#Comment_3506076
There's really no definitive answer to that. Maybe the survivors aren't that good. Maybe it's just rng in your favor each time. Maybe it's just a bunch of uncoordinated solos instead of a 4-man swf.
By all means, play how you want to, but if the only way you have fun is by ruining the game for others, move on to a different game.
Right, in 5 years of play I consistently get lucky with the 4K. Makes sense. And no, thanks, I will play however I want. You don’t dictate what I can do.
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3505989#Comment_3505989
A huge post that talks about how tunneling isn't always the most effective strategy, and that more often than not, just playing naturally nets you more kills consistently than tunneling does.
Then why do I consistently 3-4k by tunneling?
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3504614#Comment_3504614
Yes, it's the most effective strategy for winning but that only applies to mid and low MMR. At high MMR, survivors play around this and will loop you for days while your gens go brrr.
A lot of people talk about how gens fly, so they need to tunnel but they never stop to consider what they're doing wrong. Remember, the survivors ultimate goal is to repair the generators. If you aren't defending your generators because you think a down is more valuable, you're playing the game wrong (At least in mid MMR anyway).
At low MMR, survivors will hide when they hear a terror radius. More competent survivors will see that you're busy chasing someone else and work on a generator that's only 12m away from your location. Tunneling won't make you better at the game. Against competent survivors, you'll find that you can lose two - three gens in the first chase, which means they looped you for over a minute.
Remember, it takes 90 seconds solo to repair a generator. Around 50 for two survivors. With a 2 - 1 Split, that's a total of 140 seconds. If the pair then moves onto another generator, they'll likely get halfway through that third generator by time you down them. At best, you walk away with 1 kill and three escapes.
Tunneling simply isn't fun because the game is balanced around survivors having three hook states and two health states. Tunneling sucks the fun out of the match for one person, and honestly, if that's how you want to play then you really should just move on to a different game instead of deriving your fun from ruining the experience for others. At the end of the day, you're playing against actual people and not bots.
Another huge post that says absolutely nothing. As someone who rarely loses with Nurse, I can tell you that tunneling is a high level strategy, especially if you aren’t playing Nurse. The best scenario for killer early on is getting a fast down and hooking a survivor near a few gens. You then defend that area for the rest of the game and get someone out of the match as soon as possible.
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@Dogma_loki said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3504213#Comment_3504213
Talk is cheap.
Back up your chest thumping and show us how simple playing survivor is since a "literal monkey" can play it.
I do almost every day lol. Memorize tiles, drop the pallet early, hold forward.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3503578#Comment_3503578
- 2nd blink movement time is 1sec. Her range is 12m, you can run for 4m.
- Lung time is 1sec, her reach is 6m, you can run for 4m.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/T0ACY4TKXLX4/image.png
Its not up to you to decide, its up to how good Nurse is. If they're good, no matter your choice, you get hit.
The only chance for you to out run her lung range is she has to pause and check which direction before lung, good Nurse doesnt give you this precious time, she instantly lung post blink.
I dont complain on Nurse because great Nurse is rare; good Nurses makes the game end fast, I dont have to endure the pain; average Nurse feels fun.
This is both wrong and toxic. Do you not understand how incredibly condescending this logic is? I main Nurse and have gone against good Nurse players. No Nurse is guessing perfectly every time. I also find it funny that there are survivor mains in here saying she doesn’t take skill when a literal monkey could play survivor.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3503483#Comment_3503483
Depends.
Singularity is bad design, survivors have so much control on his power.
But then we have Pinhead. Survivors can deny some parts of his power but even with that, he is still decent killer.
And no, i don't want them to kill Nurse. I want fair power for Nurse which both sides can enjoy the game. For now, it's only enjoyable for Nurse.
She is fair currently. I go against people who know how to counterplay her.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3503405#Comment_3503405
I swear i am just gonna save some notes to my pc. So whenever someone tell me "Break the LoS" i can copy paste to here.
I know. I am doing that. The point is "Break the LoS" is not good counter. It's just not enough to face with this killer. She needs more counters.
Gosh, Trapper, the weakest killer in the game has more counters than Nurse.
You won’t be happy until survivors can deny her power. I bet you think the recent survivor-controlled killer is good design.
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@Halloulle said:
tbh since her add-on changes I find her somewhat alright. --- Though the removal of the burn mechanic kinda offsets that. She should have some additional counterplay aside from "Break LOS" - not least because theres a number of maps where its near impossible to break LOS.
Are we playing the same game? One of the big complaints on this forum is that maps have been adding clutter for years. Th majority of maps let you break LOS
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3500823#Comment_3500823
Everyone seems to have this misconception games can't be balanced for multiple skill levels.
Top down balancing works. Perks don’t matter when a survivor can’t run a tile; they will die regardless.