unluckycombo
unluckycombo
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Hiyah! Player who is both consistently red ranks and places commonly in SWFs with other Red Rank friends here!
I can't speak for my friends, but the answer is generally no, we don't enjoy stomping low-rank killers. Sure, they can lead to a few funny moments for us, but most of the time it ends up being quick game where most of us spend more time on gens then interacting with the Killer or each other. Granted, we also generally don't BM, and I know every team handles things differently.
Still though, like the other person said, we don't know your rank before the trial. We can guess you're low rank based on what perks we can verify you using, or how you play- but we don't have any gurantees that you aren't just boosted by the poor ranking system until we hit the end game screen. (Just like how a Killer who plays against a bunch of Survivors that are performing poorly might go easier on them thinking they're low rank, only to see they're red ranks in post game chat.)
Idk, my mentality for it as a Survivor is that if we think the Killer is low rank, we'll normally just try to push gens or do weird plays, that way we can all move onto what will (hopefully) be a more fair match for everyone.
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As the other commentor stated, every game has it's learning curve.
Imho, the real issue with it comes from the weird matchmaking (New players being forced to play with players with thousands of hours) and there isn't a dedicated distinction between a Competitive and Casual play. You can be paired with a complete meme squad just as easily as you can be paired with an absolute sweat squad on Killer, just like you can get the sweatiest killer on earth and then get a Demogorgan who is trying to get Dead Man Switch v a l u e. It makes the learning curve larger, and also makes the entire matchmaker a wild west.
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Keys have never (at least in my two years of playing) allowed a Survivor to open hatch in the dying state.
@IWasLeft2Die said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2169391#Comment_2169391
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2169412#Comment_2169412
Make egc start after the there is1 survivor left and it pauses as thr last survivor works on a gen.
Still more fun than getting ribbed of your last k
In hopes that this isn't just a really bad bait and not a genuine misunderstanding...
I don't think that would be a great idea. It essentially creates a lose-lose scenario for the last survivor- which, from my understanding, is one of the major reasons why the hatch exists in the first place. To give the Survivor a more fair chance to escape when they're the only one left- the lone survivor. It lets the game end quickly, and if anything, it can be seen as more Killer sided in some aspects. (After all, Killers both move faster and will probably be running around before it's open more than a Survivor- so they've got a better chance of finding it just from that alone. Plus, if the hatch hasn't even spawned, you can literally just slug and try to find the other Survivor and the hatch. Granted, I don't really get the need to slug for the 4k- I don't really care, nor think they're that important, but whatever.)
Plus, you're pretty much just asking for the game to last 2 minutes of you doing the equivalent of nothing. (After all, if I understood your proposed change correctly, EGC would only pause if the Survivor worked on a gen, would only be paused for the duration of them being on a gen, and would not pause for opening the doors, allows doors to just be opened from the start. At that point, it's better for the Survivor to just... wait out EGC. If they work on a gen, the timer is going to pause, and the Killer is going to know where they are and that they're working on a gen. It would become either a 2 minute slog fest, or a 2+ minute slogfest of the Survivor slowly doing gens, while the Killer pretty much plays cat-and-mouse with them, with no way to get it to stop. Do you see where that would be boring?)
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@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2166648#Comment_2166648
They are only a pain to change if they are still technically possible to achieve. Otherwise, it is super easy to change achievements. It isn't a technical problem, it's a policy problem.
Man, you are getting really hung up on the whole achievement thing that I brought up, even though that was not the crux of my argument.
My point is, I can see why the Devs wouldn't want to change the current way base keys function, as far as the suggestion of keys should only allow one person out. Why? Because this promotes a style of play that many already dislike playing with and against- encouraging keys to just be used by players who have absolutely no interest in helping their team, ever, and only care about their own survival. (I think anyone who plays this game for any length of time as a Survivor can agree that there's a difference between preferring to play and work alone, and someone who will just wait for their team to perish so they can escape- no matter the circumstance.) The issue of having to possibly change the achievement because of this is just a side issue, that is brought up in these discussions a lot, which is why I brought it up in the first place. It's more of a subpoint than anything though.
As I stated though, I think if they change anything about keys it's going to be the add-ons, because they're pretty nasty.
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@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2166570#Comment_2166570
Terrible argument, and it is made in literally every single thread about this topic:
- Achievements are able to be changed as long as it is no longer possible to obtain the achievement
- When they talk about achievements changing and how they can't, they were talking about the huntress one that was like, "land 200 hatches from more than 30 meters away" or something. They changed it on steam to be like 10, but PS4 its still 200 or w/e the number was. Sony said that even though it is hard, that is fine, as long as the achievement is still possible they aren't allowed to change it./
- Lastly, and most importantly. Sacrificing gameplay for the sake of an achievement is stupid.
I mean, that wasn't my entire argument as to why I don't think they'd change keys- just a popular reason as to why your particular suggestion for keys probably wouldn't get implemented. (Along with my other point of encouraging the 'Lone Wolf' gameplay with keys *even more* then it does already, which will just make the matches just as miserable for everyone when a key is involved.)
And yes, I know they can change achievements. It's just that it's an absolute pain to do, and I can see why that function of keys wouldn't be something they would want to change. Achievement aside, a 4 man escape through hatch isn't exactly the worst thing in the world when you consider what all must be done to reach that point. (And, you know, the fact that you can play what people would call 'Scummy' to counter keys if you see them in a lobby, and if you don't, then they most likely gave you a good chunk of time to exert pressure while doing side objectives, and probably using perk slots to do it insteas of running a full metal build of DS Unbreakable with Dead Hard and Borrowed Time.)
Idk, I think if anything keys and moris are on a closer level now with both the reduced hatch timer and the older mori nerf, and I think the only other things that should really be changed about it is the add-ons, because they're wild.
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@GuyNamedPubert said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2166433#Comment_2166433
I honestly think they need to buff and nerf in some ways.
Completely change how the reveal mechanic works because it almost never does.
and you can't cancel the meter if he decides he wants to just sit and wait out his power, waste time for him but why does he care?
Not gonna lie, I actually like the core ideas of his current reveal mechanic. I think it makes a lot of sense for Ghostface and his lore, while being simple to understand and still being interesting and unique. The only real issue with it is the same thing we see with any hit box in the game- if there's lag, there's confusion- especially since, if memory serves, his hitbox is always in an odd spot behind him and not just him. It's a good mechanic in theory, it's just that it suffers the same jank issues of Huntress hatchets sometimes, where you get some hatchet hits that definitely look like they shouldn't land but do, and some that definitely just bopped that Baby Meg in the head, but she activated her special ability to turn her head ethereal for .5 seconds as lag decides you didn't get the hit.
As for your second point, you kinda answered your own question. If he's just sitting and waiting to get his power, you can make distance and try to make him lose you. And if he procts exposed, if you're not in a deadzone and can outplay the Ghostface you're versing, you can outrun the exposed meter by chaining together tiles correctly. There's also the fact that if Ghostface is hard commiting to just waiting to get his stealth back before actually pressuring Survivors, then if your teammates know what a motor is, he's going to he wasting his time if you can kick him out of stealth- it has a super long cooldown. It's not like he can immediately hop back into stealth to finish you off. (That's also why getting that first down fast is so important with Ghostface, because if your power ends up being for nothing when it goes on that first cooldown, you can be in for a rough time.)
Idk, I think Ghostface has a lot of great counterplay to him, and I think he's an entirely fair Killer, in a similar vain to Huntress- you both know he's a little janky, but the jank goes both ways, and he's still fun as heck to play. (Seriously, easily one of my favourite killers, you should play him youself sometime! Playing a killer is a great way to learn how to verse them!)
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I don't mind the chat filter filtering out any sort of racial slurs or homophobic/derogatory terms! But I do agree that the filter has started to go a little far in it's censorship, as I've had it censor out curse words for me that were not being rude nor derogatory towards anyone. (I mean, unless suddenly me telling my team/the killer in post game chat that 'I eat booty' (obviously using the curse word for it) is rude or derogatory now. I always just did it as a joke though.)
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@dtavares7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2166541#Comment_2166541
That's barely a nerf, should be more like only the person with the key can use the hatch or something
Considering how useless they nerfed moris to be
I don't think they'd do that. Not because 'Devs prefer Survivor' nonsense or anything, but just because of the whole thing where 4 survivors escaping through hatch is still an achievement, just like Left Behind- and changing keys like that would make that achievement near impossible. (Afterall, they can't just change achievements like that on consoles.) Plus, it would just encourage a more 'Lone Wolf' and 'Let your entire team die to escape' mentality that you already see with keys when they're brought in trials.
Imho keys just need an add-on change more then anything. I think that+this new hatch change would make them much more fair. (Afterall, I think some people like to forget how nasty key add-ons really are just in themselves.)
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@Krunga said:
Camping/tunneling is fine change my mind.
Maybe don't loop the whole match and we wouldn't do it.
...Wait what?
I agree camping and tunneling is necessary for this game to some capacity. (I won't ever get salty at a Killer for camping/tunneling in EGC/after final gen pop to secure another kill, nor salty about a Killer camping/tunneling against someone who BM'd them all game. Or someone who has to tunnel because they're against a genuine hard gen squad/the Survivors are swarming the hook. (The second one not even being a camp/tunnel- that's just Survivors making bad choices.))
But saying it's because Survivors loop?
That's like saying you should play Nurse because she's the best Killer, but never blink because she 'Doesn't need to'. There's a ton of really unsafe loops for Killers to capitalise on, and a ton of killers that can straight up ignore them/shut them down.
Plus, there's the fact that Stealth has kinda just been getting harder and harder with a lot of new tracking perks and the map reworks making it harder in some cases, and Killers and Survivors both complain about how 'Boring' it is to see a stealth Survivor.
Idk bud, that just sounds like a bad take to me, but if you wanna explain your point a little better, I'd be glad to hear it. 🤷♂️
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Uhhh... nah. This is a concept that would be okay, if he didn't have such a long power recovery speed.
Imho Ghostface just needs an Add On pass to make more of his Add-Ons worth running, and more tweaks to his reveal mechanic, because of how jankey it is on both sides.
(Also, a reminder for OP- you can already cancel out Ghostface's stalk meter on you. If you think you're 99, you can take a hit while he's recovering his power to reset the meter. There's also the fact that if you notice him stalking you/get good distance on him or just get him in an area where you can run him better, you can outrun his entire Exposed if you can link the tiles together well. Especially true if you have an exhaustion perk like Sprint Burst or Lithe ready to give you more distance.)
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I'm gonna be the madlad to say Plague. I think her power is pretty easy to understand (Puke on Survivor, make them sick. Once super sick you hook them. If they make themselves not super sick, you can get go-go juice and hit them with even sicker puke that will make them just drop dead.) I don't personally find her necessarily the most fun, but I do think she'd be easier to understand and get decent with compared to someone like Hag or Deathslinger. To add to that, she has really, really good add-ons, and her perks are pretty simple to understand while being quite strong. (Corrupt and Infectious just need to be equipped to get value out of, with Corrupt helping both find survivors early and help keep gens from going too fast, and Infectious revealing the location of possible stealth Survivors that are so popular in low-ranks that are scared for their life and hiding.) I think the hardest perk of hers to understand is Dark Devotion, but even that one is pretty simple. (Hit person with spider legs around their name, and leave them to bug other people, because spider legs person has your heartbeat for a while, so they're gonna spook their friends and you're also gonna spook their friends.)
I'd also agree though with Clown, I just think his perks are a lot rougher overall to work with and aren't necessarily as straightforward. (Especially with Bamboozle having a chance to mess you up quite bad if you misuse it, as you don't wanna block every window.)
I wish I had more to offer here, but a lot of the Original Killers tend to have either a lot of complexities to them that make them hard to learn, or have perks that just won't be useful, even for a new player. (Like Deathslinger is hard to learn all the tricks on, and his perks aren't great. Oni and Blight have great powers, but their perks won't help them much. Hag and Spirit have complex powers. Trickster, Legion, and Twins are an odd mixed bag, where their powers are both hard to get amazing value out of, especially as a new player, and their perks are hit or miss. Doctor is in a realm of his own because his Power is a lot to try to take in when you consider add-ons.)
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To be fair the pip system is kinda super questionable. I've gotten blank pips from letting everyone bleed out on the ground (never even picking them up to hook them, just because I was curious on what the outcome would be) in red ranks. At the same time, you have games as Killer and Survivor where you felt like you should have at least blanked because you did so much for your team/had a good game despite maybe not getting a full 4k, and still de-pipping.
Idk, pip system be wild.
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Imho, Spirit takes skill in the part of reading visual and audio queues without Stridor. The issue is that Stridor makes reading those audio queues super, super easy, while also taking away the only buffer Survivors have from attempting to throw off those queues. Sure, Survivors can crouch, but if you have good enough listening skills, that doesn't matter. It also is a case where the only thing that is the 'Counter' to Spirit is entirely destroyed- after all, the only other thing you can do is attempt to make reads/plays against the Spirit mid-phase, but any Spirit worth their salt is going to shut down those attempts pretty fast against most Survivors. Add this with the fact that the only other 'Counter' to Spirit is not getting caught in the first place, and playing unpredictably/scratchmark jukes (the second of which tend to be void in both grass and if the Spirit just... doesn't phase immediately to see what they're pulling, which they can do and is one of her biggest strengths), and I think that's where people have a lot of contempt for Stridor Spirit.
(Plus, there are a lot of people who absolutely swear that Iron Will counters Stridor- when that's just not true.)
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??? Uh... what?
This perk isn't OP for SWF... a good SWF will be able to both call out totem locations effectively, know totem spawns, and will be able to get Detective's Hunch to pop to see totem spawns anyway. If anything, the fact that it gets better at showing totems based on how many are done just makes it more effective for finding totems than Detective's after a while without the tradeoff of seeing other things on the map with it, and helps boost solo queue a little closer to SWF by giving them a totem counter. (Something that solo survivors have been requesting for years because it's a change that would only help make solo queue a bit more on par with SWF- who already have that information for free just by using comms.) It doesn't buff SWF at all.
It sounds like you just got super unlucky with having a Survivor either spawn on your totem, spawning close enough that it set off your perk, or possibly just a bad spawn. (All of which being possible risks when running a totem perk- though I will agree that they shouldn't be popped within the first few seconds.)
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Eh, I'd say their both stressful in their own rights. Games can go really poorly, really quickly on both ends. It's just that with Survivor, there's a really good chance that you can't control it. (You have a bit more control as Killer, especially against the average Survivor group- it's just that matchmaking is everywhere rn.)
Personally, I think Killer is worse, but that's more because I just find the role unfun. I only boot up the game these days to have fun with friends, so the Killer role is unappealing by default. (Plus, I prefer the whole teamwork thing... never been a fan of 1v1s or being the 1 vs a large group.)
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Ngl, I kinda wish they had a lobby screen rotation! (Kinda like how Overwatch has a lobby screen rotation based on maps.) I just think it'd be awesome to have it go through a cycle of different lobby screens, since there have been a lot of amazing ones that I'd love to see again. (And of course, the default one would also be in the mix- I just also miss Trickster's, and I don't think I've ever stopped missing the Silent Hill one.)
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I'm just gonna say this: if BHVR makes a dating sim for DBD, I want it to go all out. Lemme date whoever I want as whoever I want. Let the wild ships come to life if they're already confirmed in the multiverse theory.
(Pride charms and little hints at lore would be amazing too though. I just personally want a dating sim.)
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@KblokoBR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2158092#Comment_2158092
I think put a punishments to who clicks lanters to lost more durability, cooldown between crounchings, and more severe punishments to who trash talk, and i think, explain clearly the concepts of tunneling and camping, giving killers too rewards to not camp or tunnel, or punishments when they do that.
I'd honestly be okay with more genuine punishment for those who do actual harrassment in their trash talk, but I think it's a hard thing to moderate. (For example, would calling a teammate out for having sat in a corner all game be considered 'Trash Talk' because they didn't like what you said? Or would calling a team of hardcore Blendettes who brought you to Dead Dog/An Insideous, Face Camping Trapper boring be considered trash talk because you wanted to voice that you didn't enjoy how they play, without actively telling them to do terrible things to themselves or being too awful to them? I bring this up because I know the chat filter has already caught things that we were told wouldn't get caught, or random things in general and censor them, and I'm just worried for a situation similar to that, but also worse, and everyone has a different tolerance for trash talk.)
I will say too, I think a system to deter people from t-bagging at the killer/clicking at them can be a detriment if it was poorly implemented. (Which, considering how buggy so many things are, is a genuine possibility.) After all, t-bagging and clicking is a bit of a form of communication between Survivors, and I know sometimes I'll do a few friendly t-bags at a killer to say 'Hi'. There's also just the fact that sometimes doing an occasional click or t-bag in order to attempt to pull aggro for a teammate is a valid strat- and is only really rude in excess.
Idk, I wouldn't mind systems like that, but I'm also worried that they would either go too far, or just be kinda useless. It's a complicated thing though.
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@Zixology said:
I've always been fascinated by Pyramid Head's cage system. It got me thinking, why not make Hooks behave similarly to the Cages?
Obviously we'd still need the killer to pick up and carry the survivor. But how about when the killer hooks someone, that survivor immediately gets sucked into the ground by the Entity and then brought back up on another hook elsewhere? Remove the ability for the killer to see the hooked survivor's aura and make it so that if the killer gets too close, the survivor gets sucked back up and moved to another hook just like the cages.
And, of course there would be a few key things to note. The Basement should behave as it does now. If someone is hooked in the basement, they will stay there and not teleport. Perks like Devour Hope and Make Your Choice will behave the same and even give the killer some extra info by lighting up while they're active, showing the killer that they are far enough away from the hooked survivor despite not knowing exactly where that is.
I'm not saying it's perfect. But this could be good. It would add an extra element to the game while also helping out a lot with the camping problem that lots of people have a problem with.
Ngl, I think it would be a really interesting system on both ends if hooks behaved like that- it would help reduce camping on the Survivor's end, and help reduce hook bombing in your face on Killer's End into DH+BT combo.
I think the big issue with it is both how it would hurt some Killers (Like Hag or Trapper, who can get great value without even being there) and the fact that camping is a valid strat in quite a few scenarios. (And I'd hope for the sake of all Killers, if this was ever implemented, it would not be functional in EGC.)
There's also kinda the issue that it is a bit unfair as Killer to have all of your map pressure possibly be taken away from you immediately because Survivors got a decent hook spawn near a teammate, and got insta-saved. At least with hook bombs currently you can force some resources out of the Survivors to punish it, and gurantees some pressure on both Survivors, so they're not both back on gens immediately.
Idk, I think it's an interesting idea, and I wouldn't mind the Devs playing around with the concept either internally or on a PTB (you know, one that's actually for testing, or is something like the Experiment Card from OW where it's just wild things they're playing around with internally that might not come to live on a PTB.) But I feel like they payoff wouldn't be enough for hooks, and it would make it harder on killer then it already is.)
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I'll definitely agree, Iron Will does need to get changed so that it doesn't take away all of your noises like it currently does (If anything, that odd part of the perk should be given to a perk like Calm Spirit, since it would make sense for the Perk if the Devs truly wanted to keep it) but I will always stand by the fact that they should also change Stridor so that Iron Will isn't entirely obliterated by the perk like it currently is. (Or at least make it more clear that Iron Will *does not* work against Stridor.)
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Wow, another untrue statement about the way the game is balanced. Love that.
Look, the Devs don't favor oneside more then the other, and the game has pretty much gotten increasingly better for killer, though both sides still have their issues. (Trapper being super weak and left in the dust with balancing, and Solo Survivors pretty much being thrown into a Battle Royale half the time.) Both sides have bugs thag aren't fixed (Like the current chest bug, Pallet Stun Bug, and Breakdown bugs). Both sides have crappy perks.
The issue isn't the Devs favoring one side more then another, it's just that they're slow with balance changes, and both sides feel it.
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Camping can't be bannable. The reason why it happens is a multifaceted issue, and it is a necessary strat in some cases. (For example, versus top tier players, it's better to camp out the weak link like you said, because a 3 v 1 is more manageable for a Killer, esp in those scenarios- or camping during EGC to secure a final kill isn't the worst thing and is generally understandable.)
Imho I think the issue is a mixture of both gen speeds (As they can feel fast for Killer if you're not applying enough pressure or if you panic because a gen has popped and you only just got your first down) and the feeling that the game is always stacked against you, thanks to a mix of bad matchmaking and unlucky games. (Anyone who's played Killer has had this feeling after playing at Rank 10 as whatever Killer you enjoy and then just getting destroyed by a full Red rank lobby with the worst perks to verse imaginable, because of matchmaking.)
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How is Head-On, the most inconsistent and generally worst exhaustion perk (Save for Smash Hit, since Pallet Stuns are still all over the place, but that's a bug issue.) A toxic exhaustion perk? Next your going to tell me Balanced Landing is OP on Shelter Woods.
Sure, SWFs can attempt to coordinate a cool Head-On play, but one, it takes a lot of coordination in the first place (Which, honestly coordination doesn't get commended enough in this game, despite it literally winning games and making amazing plays), is a pretty situational exhaustion perk (Especially compared to almost all other Exhaustion perks, saved for Balanced), tends to be a bit unreliable, and is something that you can both bait out and look out for after the first time you see it. (Treat it similar to Dead Hard: You see a David use Dead Hard, you make a mental note of it for later and try to catch him in a place next time where it can't extend his chase as well or attempt to bait it out of him. You get Head On stunned by a David/see them attempt to Head On stun you (as it has a different animation) then you know to check lockers and do the swivel technique around lockers to try to bait it out and get a free grab/hit.)
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@Babawizwiz said:
Two killers with the lowest skill ceiling in the game.
Twins- proxy camp, getting hits on victor really isnt a challenge unless on pallet gyms
Freddy (pre-nerf)- constant spamming of snares, slow down add ons, basically the easiest killer in the game unless against OoO
Alright bud, I might find Twins and Freddy boring to face too, but there's no reason to be rude or call them out. Especially since I can at least admit that pallet Freddy is a fun Meme, and Twin's Pounce is an absolute pain to land. If people enjoy playing them, cool. Let them enjoy it. I might not enjoy playing or versing them, but power to you if you do. (To be fair to both, I don't think I ever personally recovered from Forever Freddy, because that was extremely common, and I have bad experiences with Freddy players, and generally don't enjoy playing against Killers like him or Clown. I don't mind Twins, but I just think their design is kinda boring, and their PTB/release was just so... lackluster.)
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It's situational. A situation like you stated I'd call more a forfeit. A situation where a chest squad gets a 4 man escape through hatch versus a Killer who's been trying to camp and tunnel since 5 gens left- that's definitely a win. I'd also call it a win as Survivor if I was the Meg in your scenario, and I got out with a Key after doing a metric crap ton that game.
Generally, when playing Killer though, I generally just see hatch escapes as forfeits and a last resort then a win. (But this game also has a very loose definition of a win so its all subjective.)
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2154295#Comment_2154295
What does dbd have that no other games have? Basically, All the horror movie killers in one game. That's what should be celebrated. Horror movie game with your friends.
I totally agree! I think the game is at it's most fun if that's how you treat it. I was just trying to point out in my post that not everyone really likes playing like that, which is where I believe some of the biggest disputes come from in this game- even if it's not talked about as often as it should for how big of a topic it is.
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Personally, if we had a version of The Crooked Man at all, I'd prefer it to be the version from the old RPG Horror game of the same name that was out before the Conjuring 2. I'm a really big fan of the RPG horror game genre, and I'd love to see an older classic like that, Misao, Ao Oni, Mad Father, Witch's House, or IB get into the game. Especially since it's from a smaller genre of horror then that of The Conjuring movies that I really wish got a bit more love and recognition. (Though, if we're making Wishlists here, I would also love seeing a crossover with Puppet Combo as well.)
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It's honestly an issue with matchmaking and the type of games people are playing. Solo teams or casual, average SWF with like... 2 meta perks between the four of them going against a Killer with a full meta build killer on a Killer-sided map is r o u g h, just like playing a killer you barely touch on something like Haddonfield against an OoO sweat squad with a full meta perk build who are just better/more experienced at the game is rough.
Tbh though I do think Killers are in a pretty good spot overall. Imho a lot of Killer can hold their own against an average SWF, with their game depending more on their map and how well they play. (Obviously not OP by any means- I wouldn't call anything in this game necessarily OP at this point. Annoying or busted? (Second one generally being because of bugs?) Sure, but generally not OP.) Of course though, at the top percent of the game, Killer is definitely weaker.
I should also note too there's a bit of a split in the community which effects this mentality. It's something I've noticed the most here on the forums, but I see a lot of people trying to take this game as 'Super Competitive, have to get a 4k/4 man escape/an escape every match' game, and I've also seen people (Like me) who see this game as much more casual, and just sees it as a win if everyone had fun/something cool or funny happened in the match. (Like a stun on a Spirit mid-phase, or getting Mettle of Man to actually work.) Other games will split players off into queues like Casual vs Comp, where players with similar mindsets can play together. There's nothing like that in DBD, nor would it be feasible to do it. Because of that, it makes games even wilder, because you might get a killer who is doing whatever they can to try to get some Furitive Chase value versus a sweat squad who wants a 4 man escape, or you might be a memey SWF who are all doing random perk builds versus a Killer who will do anything for a 4k with a full meta build and nasty add-ons. With any and all seperation mostly being left to the community to try to push on each other (I've had people tell me that if I wanna play casually, I should play KYF, and on the otherside, Scims and Tournaments are held in KYF, so there's an argument for comp players to go over there.) it's just a big, jumbled mess of queues and misunderstandings about the game.
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Nah, something to learn with this community is that people can be rude no matter what you do. Survivors flame each other constantly, Survivors flame killers, killers flame survivors- it's just a cycle of people just talking smack to each other to some degree, and it's something you even see here on the forums. (After all, creating Us vs Them scenarios between the two roles isn't really how I would describe nor recommend bridging any gaps in the player base, and making the game more fun for everyone.)
Tbh, just take it with a grain of salt and move on. Usually, when people are mad, it's because you out preformed them, their teammates screwed them over (and they don't want to call them out or just saw it as you) or they're mad that they barely got any points, or because they genuinely got camped/tunneled to death. (The last two being pretty easy to see in your own games, p much if you camp or tunnel that Survivor isn't going to get many points, esp if you do it from the start, and generally people get super grumpy if you camp or tunnel them to death intentionally, especially at like... 4-5 gens left. With 1 left/being popped/being in end game with no gens, people usually are a little more understanding.)
Just relax though and have fun in your games, and don't feel bad about muting chat.
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Keys aren't the issue, it's just the spawn rate bug.
Trust me, I want it fixed ASAP too- I miss being able to run a decent chest build on Survivor...
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Devour is something you earned.
NOED is similar to old DS- you see an obsession and you down them and pick them up again before 60 seconds is up, you better hope you they don't have it. Had a rough game against a killer and struggled to even do gens, let alone all 5 bones in an uncoordinated group? (Be it a casual SWF or Solos). Better hope the Killer doesn't have NOED- with the only counter being to play like they have it, even though you can't confirm until you're hit by it.
It's pretty crappy tbh, and needs a rework- since it's pretty similar to old DS in many ways.
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Tbh, I actually don't mind the Billy change. (There were a lot of his add-ons that needed to go, even if he could use some help now) and while overheating is crappy, I definitely think it's not the worst. I think the biggest issue is just saw inconsistency. I can't tell you how many times it looks like Billy should have gotten a saw hit, and he just... doesn't, be it on Killer or Survivor side. Heck, I had one game against a Billy as Survivor on new Meatplant, running on a safe loop, and he should have landed like... three saw hits on me, but the game just didn't give it to him. (Wasn't a latency issue on my end either, I play at 60 ping, and he wasn't getting any wild latency hits). It got to the point where I just felt bad and gave him the kill, because he had deserved the down.
Idk, I don't know if it's something with animations or hitboxes, but I think between that and bad add-ons, and the fact that so many Killers can do what Billy does, but do it either better or more variety (After all, he was the original quick boi- now we have Blight and Oni) and with him being so old that many players who have been playing for a while have probably had their time already with Billy (and again, Killers that do the same thing available), and I think it's just hard for people to play Billy these days, or try to pick him up.
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@ShamelessPigMain said:
It seems weird to me that "anti-tunnel" perks like DS and "anti-camping" perks like BT don't actually prevent what people purport they prevent. Rather, they punish killers for doing those actions, but it won't actually stop tunneling and camping. Stabbing your pursuer won't make them not tunnel you and getting an extra health state after you get unhooked won't help you get unhooked. These are after-the-fact perks that hand out retribution in the form of a big, giant middle finger for playing scummy, but don't work to preemptively to prevent camping and tunneling
So, is this intentional, or should "anti-x" perks actually prevent what they are ostensibly counters to?
I mean, theoretically, things like what you're asking for just comes from one thing: not getting downed in the first place.
After all, you can't determine whether a killer is going to camp or tunnel you until you're hooked, unless you're the madlad who did the 1 for 1, or it's something like a basement Hag/Trapper/Demo. Imho, perks like BT and DS are there to help deter killers who might be tempted to camp or tunnel someone out of the game for an easier game, by causing the threat of a longer chase. Two M1's on a Survivor+the speed boost from a hit+ whatever exhaustion perk they might have+DS can lead to another decent chase (or great chase) if the Survivor is good, which can make the game end with the Killer getting a 1k- especially if the team is at least coordinated enough to realise 'that guy getting tunneled means I should slam gens asap and don't waste time, because we can't afford to'.) Creating a threat of these things being in play makes tunneling/camping much less appealing, especially if the Killer is going for kills, and gens are flying due to their chases going on for too long/bad map/pressure issues. (Because man, I've seen a lot of killers who camp/tunnel struggle with one of these things, and they're normally correlated in some ways. For example, only chasing one person and spending too long in chase lowers your map pressure.)
But at the same time, we can't deny that camping and tunneling is a valid strat that shouldn't always be crapped on. After all, I don't think it's right to crap on a killer for camping/tunneling in EGC/End Game when they're just trying to secure another Kill- especially when both gates are already 99'd/open, and they have no where else to be. No real incentive to leave. And of course if you're playing against a hardcore team, you always want to beat out the weakest link first, because anyone can do gens- but not everyone can be a god looper. Though, that doesn't make these strats fun to face, normally nets you very few points as the Survivor (and even the Killer to a degree), and, at least in the case of the hardcore teams, generally not necessary in your average games.
Idk, camping and tunneling is a part of the things in the game that they can't really change, because there are some good reasons to do it, so it's not like there's any one magic solution to it. Especially since, if a Killer wants to camp or tunnel you, they're going to. Doesn't matter your perks or add-ons, or what your team is doing. If they want you dead, they want you dead. Just like how if a Survivor wants a flashlight save or pallet save, they will do whatever they can to get it- even if means being a detriment to the team.
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@Mooks said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2151352#Comment_2151352
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2151420#Comment_2151420
its intention is that after you get unhooked, the hooks is broken and can’t be used for 3 min.
the Bug makes the hooks broken for the remainder of the trial. So if all 4 bring it and all get hooked/rescued twice there are 8 hooks less to use.
Coordinated SWF squads may abuse this and running other perks that further help like Savoteur, Breakout, No mither and other anti-slug and pro struggling stuff.
Ahhh gotchya, yeah that should definitely get fixed soon- thanks for the explaination!
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What even is the Breakdown bug? /gen
I've seen a lot of people complaining about it here, but haven't seen randos bring Breakdown in my matches, or seen any info about what's giving so many people issues with it right now.
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@Yaassin_q8 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2148051#Comment_2148051
They all brought flashlights
...Flashlights doesn't make a Survivor OP unless you're Hag. They're easy to counter. I think you missed my point.
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@Yaassin_q8 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2147985#Comment_2147985
I'm a rank 11 killer playing against rank 1-4 swf and i can tell how annoying it is
I mean, I've been in the same boat... that's generally less of an issue with Survive with Friends being genuinely OP, and more of an issue with matchmaking.
Yes, SWF are going to be more difficult to verse. But chances are, they're going to make mistakes too. It's just a matter of realising it what they are and capitalising on them. (It's just harder to catch that stuff out when you're a newer player, but once again, that's a matchmaking issue, and in part it's an issue with the learning curve of the game, as this game isn't exactly the easiest thing to learn.)
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@Bard said:
Activatable Perk
You can take a beating.
While injured, tap into your adrenaline bank to brace for impact.
- Press the active ability button while sprinting to stand your ground and brace for impact.
- Causes you to stop moving for 0.5 seconds and gain the Endurance status for that time.
- Your model will flash white when the effect lapses.
- Successfully ignoring an instance of damage will remove the movement restriction and increase the strength of the post-hit speed boost received from that damage, allowing you to move at 200% speed for 3 seconds.
Causes Exhaustion for 60/50/40 seconds.
Dead Hard cannot be used while Exhausted.
Uh, wouldn't this give you exhaustion plus a bleed out because of the endurance status effect? (As, if I remember correctly, it's the same as BT/Purple 'Insta-Heals').
Also, while I agree Dead Hard needs a change, I don't think this is necessarily the way to do it. Personally, when I use it, unless I'm using it for distance, it's something you get hit through quite a bit, and I feel like this would kinda just... cause the same effect, where you would be hit through something you *felt like* you got off successfully. Especially with how short the time is. (Which is kinda the issue with trying to change Dead Hard- it can be a bit inconsistent when dodging hits, and it's a perk that's already super easy for a Survivor to absolutely screw up on their end.)
Plus, if I understood this correctly, the distance would only come from the hit- but if you don't get hit, then would you still get exhausted? Because that would be extremely punishing in itself. (Heck, at least if I waste my Dead Hard now because I forgot I had an E key, I get a little distance...) But on the flip side, if it doesn't, then... what's to stop a Survivor from just spamming it until the Killer hits them? A prayer?
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@BlindMole said:
Can't we just come as together and say the grind sucks for both sides?
And for those who have been playing for a few years and say its five.... Imagine buying the game TODAY..... It's just overwhelming for a new player
This. I've been playing this game since Legion release, and there are still perks I haven't unlocked between laziness, disinterest, or new content. Every new chapter=all of my current roster needing to be updated, and the new Killer/Survivor leveled up. (Which might include a P3, which late level Bloodwebs make everything atrocious imho...)
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@DerpyPlayz said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2147459#Comment_2147459
You could of said that you think I am wrong in less words.
However you haven't refuted anything I have said so I am not going to bother trying to argue with two people when I am already waiting for one of them.
Reply to my points or don't bother.
Lol I did??? I specifically responded to your point of calling 'Base Survivor OP' and your point about how 'Perks are powerful in certain situations', where in I was attempting to clarify their point on why perks like Mettle of Man is both hard to get value out of, or justify bringing- as you seemed to have kinda missed the other poster's point in that regard. (And to add to that, I'll even tac on something here, and state that I believe that the other user is correct in stating that protection hits when trying to help an injured Survivor are extremely unreliable, as the game is all over the place on what a protection hit is unless you're running directly behind them, or taking a hit for a carried Survivor. I've had wonky hits count as protection hits where I wasn't even close to them, and hits where I was right next to them not count. Just like many things in the game, like breaking GF out of stealth, it's unreliable and buggy.)
Though, if you wanted to tell me you didn't read my post, you coulda just said 'TL;DR', or just not responded to it. Woulda done the same thing in less words. ;)
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Man, I've given up on this dream to the point where I went ahead and just... bought the same cosmetics and such I had on console on PC lol.
I'll still miss all the items on my console Nea though.
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@DerpyPlayz said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2146535#Comment_2146535
None of what you're saying is ever going to really happen in a solo queue game or even majority of red rank games.Well I am unsure at what skill level you personally play vs, but I play vs survivors who do this all the time. Its not uncommon for these strats to be used vs me when I am a killer and when I play survivior hence why I know they are thing you can do. In any sense, then this is your chance to understand what I have said and employ these "rare" strats, and then killers will fall for them consistantly (even though you are just using red herring fallacy.)
Survivors have to be efficient as possible to actually try and win since most Good Killers these days can actually pressure a map that well that no more than 2 gens can get done. Not to mention the amount of Dead Zones and about 3 hooks per tile. This game is not Survivor sided and even the bloodpoint amount suggests that.No they don't, they have to be efficient as possible if they want a game that literally lasts less then 3 minutes. If at optimal play, even a nurse has issues (nurse would still win likely however or at least draw unless the survivors did everything humanly perfectly).
Some Killers I escape against and if they get no kills also end up with more points than the whole survivor team. DS is rarely used now as well because that got a stupid nerf so Killers barely slug anymore anyways.See it was after you said this I am starting to think you are a new player. Not seeing common strats vs and as killer, and now not understanding how the emblem system works?
Anyway, conveniently I have already argued this and refuted this point in another thread. You can find it here:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2143285#Comment_2143285
But as you say "recklessly slugging loses games" which i've never heard anyone says, the Killers that slug (which btw is probably one of the most powerful methods a killer has to gain pressure) are the ones that generally win games easy as well.Likely because you don't understand the optimization for killers at all.
The killers that ensure hook states are the ones that win, killers can slug all day but they won't get anywhere if the survivors just ensure they're teammates are being picked up and in fact this would constitute to the killers lost and they basically would be allowing survivors to regress chase worths of time for no reasons.
You haven't even attempted to refute my above argument, so you can refer it to why this is.
Yeah let's have over altruistic survivors triple healing while one person is on hook or running from killer = 0 gen progress with the possibility of ruin being up as well so there's more pressure for the Killer.This is a fallacy, strawman, no. Refer to my point AND quote me with your response otherwise I am just going to ignore this point as I already argued it and you are outright lying.
Seems you really don't understand how pressure works in this game in the top ranks because all you're dishing out at me is theoretical situations and scenarios.Ironic considering you think slugging is absolutely amazing and also I am in the top ranks but the funny thing is the argument from authority fallacy you are using doesn't even make sense as rank doesn't mean anything but play time in modern day DBD. Its not even known what the mechanisms for match making are currently.
Just admit MoM is a terrible designed perk because everyone else pretty much agrees.Yup, totally agree with that. Although don't know why this is relevant as it has nothing to do with neither of our arguments. I never argued it was a good design.
It's not about having to go out your way for Protection hits it's also gifting the Killer more health states which also gifts them more pressure...Already gave the reasons why this is not the case, and why survivor is coming out better in this situation if you actually decided to read what I said.
and like I said Protection Hits only have a chance to work if you're standing by another survivor, they only really work when someone if being carried to one of the 3 hooks per tile that we seem to get in every map now, which btw also renders even MORE survivor perks useless.This is just bs.
You also seemed to miss my point when i say i've got to run the same 4/7 perks. Trying to run other builds that don't include Borrowed TIme & Iron Will seem utterly pointless because there's too many perks in the game that require about 2/3 other perks to actually get any use out of.You seem to miss that point THE BASE SURVIVIOR KIT IS GOOD ENOUGH WITHOUT PERKS, hopefully you actually read that now that it is boldened.
This is a issue with killers or survivors, they're are a great deal of not viable perks but this is for both sides.
What's the point in running a perk like Flip-Flop or Buckle Up when there's busted Hook RNG in the game. Yeah let's also try Tenacity, Unbreakable, Soul Guard or something...another useless perk build that would probably work once in about 10 games,I have no clue what RNG has to do with anything nor is it busted for hook escapes. If survivors could consistently escape hook this game would have no killers. That would be a better version of Deliverance at base.
or let's run prove thyself and then get the Killer camping and tunneling because we "gen rush"...you see my point here?Yes, because that is the optimal play when every gen is done in 3 minutes. Its either camp a survivor and force a kill/drawed game or outright lose.
It seems to make no sense to waste your time running anything else because too many niche perks in the game require a stupid playstyle or have a 1 in 10 game chance to actually be effective.They are powerful in specific situations. That's they're entire purpose. That's why DS is one of the most used, as well as unbreakable ect.
And DS IS one of the most used perks because it is useful even though you don't think so because you are new to the game or just not good at it.
Uhhh... so I hate to break it to you bud, but I'm gonna also say a hard 'no' to this as well.
Survivor is definitely not OP, (Let alone base kit only survivors) in most scenarios of this game.
The only time Survivors are truly OP, are when you are against a great, well-coordinated, OoO SWF group (which, won't even be an issue with the OoO changes coming in.) or you're playing at a Tournament level. (I'll also admit that Survivors can also be OP if they're using an actual infinite, however, those are pretty few and far between.)
Otherwise, I'd argue that most Survivors are most definitely beatable if you play well. Sure, will you still lose the occasional match because of some crappy RNG with your Ruin spawn, Pallet Spawns, or just an unlucky map for your Killer? Totally. Will some Killers struggle more than others? Of course, not every killer is created equal.
But those are the same things that any player faces, be it when they play Killer or Survivor.
Sure, a decent SWF might be hard to beat, but they're definitely not impossible, nor are they the top dog if you play well. (Again, can also depend on RNG). Of course, Perks can play to or against your advantage, but at least in my experience, while a lot of people can run the same meta builds (You see quite a bit of DH with console SWFs at least, but I'm not going to say that there's a full meta team in every lobby because... well, there just isn't.) that doesn't mean they'll use them well. I can't tell you how many times I've seen Survivors make a mistake with one of their perks, the Killer didn't capitalize on it, and then would wonder why they struggled. (Or, a Killer/Survivor team making the same mistake, repeatedly, never learning from it, and wondering why they lose.)
(I'd also like to make the point that Decent SWF are hard to beat, just like a good Killer with a hardcore meta-build against an average Solo Group or an average SWF who's just a bunch of buds are also just rough and hard to beat. It's honestly p fair on both sides to that regard...)
I also just wanted to note that I think you missed the other user's point in the last part of their post... There are a lot of niche perks in the game, that can be hard to justify bringing over perks that are much more guaranteed to get you value. That in itself is fine, but when you also bring in the fact that there are a lot of niche perks that aren't even really strong in their niche scenarios compared to other perks, it can be hard to justify bringing them, if you're playing to escape/get a 4k. (For example, it's hard to justify bringing Flip-Flop when there are a lot of hooks on the maps, the wiggle you get isn't great, and it's so situational, that when you're put in that scenario, you're probably better off to have brought Unbreakable in the first place. Or for Killers, it's hard to justify bringing a perk like Gearhead, when you can just bring something like Thrilling and get more guaranteed value from it.) (Granted, I don't really care in that regard, I play casually, so I'll just run whatever I feel like- there are a lot of niche perks that can do great things with good set up, but they just aren't as reliable, so I can see where someone who is playing to escape would be frustrated with them...)
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@killashlie said:
The doctors power to shock survivors within range and show their aura gets me and my entire team murdered every time unless the killer is purposely not trying to kill us. No other killer has a perk even similar to it and there’s no way around the doctors power, no way to counter him once he starts a chase you’re guaranteed dead. I think the aura should be removed for the killer and all killers because it’s not fair that they are generally faster already and they don’t even have to look for us as long as the doctor has that power. Please remove it , it makes the game suck. I deal with the penalty at this point because I refuse to lose all of my items to the doctor every round I play against him.
One: Calm Spirit and Lockers counter the Static Blast. (Which you can also hear him charge up if you're in range of it. I'm not great at describing sounds, but the best I can describe it is an electrical hum that's charging up, which lasts for the duration of his little 'Charge' animation before the blast. If you're near a locker, you can use this small period to slip into it and not get detected. Calm Spirit, if memory serves, also completely takes away the discovery factor of the perk and showing your aura.)
For loops, it's just a matter of pre-dropping pallets and staying away from him. You can also vault windows and pallets while he's trying to shock you if you press the vault button before he shocks (Which will usually let you extend chase a little.)
You should also try not to group up too much verses Doctor, and exhaustion perks like BL, Lithe, and SB (Smash Hit as well if pallet stuns weren't as inconsistent as my energy levels, aka all over the place) are great as they allow you to extend the chase even furher with proper use.
(As a note as well, Calm Spirit comes from Jake, who's from the main 4 and entirely free- and he also has Iron Will, an amazing perk, so I would recommend levelling him up. (And also because like... the world needs more Jake mains.))
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@Actionjacksn said:
I think so much and so hard about posting this but..... the MMR does not work. I just came back playing this game after a 4 month break and before i left i heard rumors that the MMR will be implemented and everything will be ok so i finally came back playing my lovely Clown. I dropped back to yellow levels and the unimaginable happened...... i get red rank teammates as yellow rank killer to play against....
I know that in this pandemic times it is the last thing what you wanna hear about that how much your game is broken, but i have to tell it..... the MMR is not working and still i have instant ques as killer and have to wait as survivor.
Best wishes, please don't bann me!
Ah, I know everyone had corrected you on MMR, but I do also wanna say that you are also effected by the time of day you're playing as well. Playing during Peak Hours will be more likely to give you normal games against players closer to your skill, and playing outside of it just causes the matchmaker to get more and more funky depending on what times you play. (For example, normally when playing during peak, I play in a 3 man- two reds and a mid-purple. (Only one person runs a meta build, and it's the purple. Reds run memes/off meta.) Our teammates/killers versed are normally red, purple, or (rarely) green ranks. (Teammates are a hit or miss, but normally killers are pretty average unless they make like... super major mistakes mid-match.) Playing outside of peak though, either as a solo or 2/3 man, ranks will fluctuate a lot more. You either get a ton of really good, Red Rank killers back to back, while you get green/grey teammates, or you get a bunch of red/purple survivors against a yellow/grey killer who just installed. Average games are rare during those times.)
But I will say, normally during peak, it won't go more then 2 above. (Which can be okay depending on your build, map, and the Survivors.)
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@justad00d said:
It seems from my experience that there is a huge difference in the caliber of players depending on what time of day you play.
This! In my experience, you're more likely to get paired with people closer to your rank if you play around peak hours, since there's (obviously) more people online. The more you play outside of peak hours, the weirder queues get. (A great example of this being that, at least here in my timezone, playing between 9pm-12pm normally gets you average games, with one or two random apples that are either going to sweep you, or you sweep them. But generally, the matches line up with the latest kill rates we've seen.
If you play closer to 3am, you get really weird games. Like, super weird. I love them.
I will say too, matchmaking tends to be a little wild for Survivor, even during peak hours- we see a random green/yellow rank who's still very green in the game at least once a night, even during peak hours.
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I'm gonna be the wild person that says 'em-
Dr. Phil (Wraith and Doctor)
Jayers (Jake and Myers)
Neon Toxicity (My and my bud's ship name for Nea and Feng)
Felix and Pyramid Head
Jayers is def my favourite, but Neon Toxicity is a close second for me. I'm also a fan of Jake×Steve (Purely because I can't help but ship my mains-). The rest of the ones above are my faves.
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I primarily play Survivor, but I genuinely don't think there's anything they can really do to make me play Killer more. I really like the team aspect of the game, and messing around with my buds with other randos. I can do that as part of the 4. I can't do that as much as the 1.
Plus, if I have time to play killer, I'd probably be more likely to play a single player game instead... I only really play games like this to have fun with friends, and DBD is just fun for us. Idk, I just don't find Killer worth the time investment compared to messing around with Survivor, and I just find myself wanting to do other things. When I played more Solo, I even still preferred Solo Survivor, because seeing how wild your teammates would be every game is both a complete memey joy and utter disappointment, and I like that. Idk, I just really like cooperation and team work. That's never going to happen for the 1 in the 1v4. (Which, I should note, I think is totally fine, and I think it's awesome they have both options available, for those who aren't as interested in teamwork PvP games- I'm just generally not one of them.)
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It's just kinda... boring to verse. Unless you're already running Spine Chill, Slinger has a phenomenonally tiny terror radius (With many of them running M&A to push this further), so it can be hard to get in decent stealth around him. (While I might not like Spirit either, at least she has a larger terror radius and makes the phasing noise outside of it..., giving you the opportunity to attempt to stealth away from her...) On the same token, chases usually just consist of pre-dropping a pallet or two and hoping he's a bad shot. When a Slinger misses, I never feel like it's because I made a good play- good fake, a good mindgame, a fair window vault- it's just because he missed, which just kinda makes me feel bad, especially when they miss easy shots. That, mixed with Slingers seeming to struggle a lot with map pressure (Or maybe just me being unlucky and them being gross) it feels like Slingers proxy camp or try to tunnel harder then any other killer in the game.
Don't get me wrong, Slinger takes skill, and he's not easy to play- but I just find him boring to verse, because the amount of input on the Survivor's side is so low. His best counterplay is just... throw down pallet early, hope for the best, and try to push gens as hard as possible. (Something that neither side necessarily enjoys...)
Idk, if you also compare him to PH, I find PH more fun to verse. I just think his power is a little more dynamic, and because he has a very clear telegraph of his power, we can both attempt fakes and jukes. Sure, I'll probably still get downed and hooked eventually, but at least I feel like I can have some fun and interesting inputs and interactions. Deathslinger is barely better then Spirit in that regard- at least he can't win by standing still and has to actually hit a shot lol.
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@IWasLeft2Die said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2142313#Comment_2142313
And that all leads to an issue with the game needing to better communicate what a win is. A lot of people consider a 4k a win or an escape a win but how the game rewards you (both BP and Pips but Pips are the technical win measurement) shows that those are not the only things that determine a win (and you can win without those). Because of people trying to exclusively get 4ks you get a lot of killers play pretty scummy while survivors you get them to pretty early on abandoning teammates/objectives for hatch (and many actively getting their teammates killed).
It's an issue that the game should better communicate to players to encourage healthy (and frankly fun) playstyle on both sides.
This exactly. A 'win' or 'loss' is extremely subjective in this game, because we have no clear indicators on what is a 'Win' or 'Loss' (Especially when you consider that the pip system is directly tied to rank, which the Devs have already made clear doesn't equal skill or really indicate what kind of player you are besides showing how much you play.)
At least in my experience, the issue with camping or tunneling is the same as 4 gens in 2 minutes or a team of extreme stealth Blendettes on Saloon: it's boring. It's boring for the person getting tunneled/camped, it's boring to play.
Generally, at least in my experience, people don't mind getting killed in this game as Survivor unless they feel cheated (Like getting hit through a pallet or vault that, on their screen, they definitely made- which is why there's complaints about Freddy's odd lunge, or the frustration of not being able to get pallet stuns, but the killer can swing next to it and you get hit, (Something I feel now between killer latency and the pallet stun issue), or Spirit being able to pretty much stand still to win any loop in the game for what is practically free.) or unless it feels scummy/like you were being targeted for what feels like no reason. (Such as getting camped/tunneled at 4 gens when the worst you've done is break some dull bones, 25% of a gen, and stun the killer with one pallet and it doesn't matter what your teammates do, the killer is determined to kill you, or the case that (while I personally understand from a Killer's side, it's not fun as Survivor) your teammates won't ever pull aggro and you feel like you're the only one the killer ever chases.)
Idk, it's just not fun, makes the game boring for both sides, and tbh Killers tend to already do really well against a lot of teams if they're good and have a half-decent build, so against most teams, it also feels unnecessary... we're not playing at a tournament level. We're trying to make friends with big boi Myers with the knife.
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From my experience in both roles, Killer players just tend to find stealth more boring compared to looping, as there's a lot less user input on their end (Save for using your eyes.). When looping, or chasing a Survivor, there's a lot more input from them, and they can use their skills (Powers, mindgames, etc) to try to gain an advantage, and they get to actually test themselves versus another player.
However, both looping and stealth and valid strategies, and really, a good player knows when to do one or the other. A good Survivor knows when they should pull aggro for the team, just like they know when they should start playing a bit more stealthy to keep themselves alive. (Afterall, if you're dead on hook, you are better off to just try to evade the killer through stealth, and then continue working on motors or other objectives then starting a chase with a killer, which can lead to him downing you, you getting taken out of the game, and your team having a much harder game because of it turning into a 1v3.) Plus, some killers you're just better off hiding against. (Spirit, Nurse, and Deathslinger being great examples of this.)
I should note as well that because there's such a big worry on gen progression, and so many people run major slowdown builds because of it, there also seems to be (at least in my experience) a lack of decent detection perks that killers will run, generally opting for some form of slowdown or chase instead. (The most common of the detection perks are Thrilling Tremors, BBQ, and Undying, but all are very easy to avoid. Surge is kinda popular, and Infectious as well, depending on the Killer- but BBQ is ran more for BP, Undying is more for keeping up some bones... Idk, I just don't really see other detection perks as often as things like Pop, Corrupt, Thana, Sloppy, Ruin, Bamboozle, Brutal, STBFL, etc. Which makes finding stealthy survivors just that much harder.)