twistedmonkey
twistedmonkey
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It seems a very broken mechanic and i cant see it being intended, you should be able to mend while in tier 3 or it's a cheap down for using a perk designed to help someone in that scenario.
The only other alternative I can see is to make it so you lose tier 3 upon being unhooked and cant gain madness while bt is active which would make the doc even weaker.
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But by who? Both killers and survivors complained about the length of the games on the PTB.FireHazard said:@twistedmonkey said:
FireHazard said:@douggie123 said:
The killer should be able to shut hatch if they find it first before the survivor. It's also annoying because I can always find hatch easy as anything when playing killer but as survivor it takes an age to find it if at all.
They did have that mechanic when the PTB for the clown was around I believe (When he was the newest killer.) But the idea got tossed around and eventually closed for obvious reasons...Cough The community outrage Cough
Please dont spread false information with conspiracy theorys.
The reason the closing of the hatch mechanic was scrapped was due to it not solving the problem of the hatch standoff, survivors having no hope could stealth around maybe touching a gen now and again but in the end the game went on for a stupid length.
It didn't fix the standoff problem where two stubborn people would rather stand there staring at eaxh other, it simply moved it to long hide and seek scenario prolonging the game in a different way.
This went against the hatch by design as it is to help end the game quicker so both sides can move on to another one.
Sorry? You have to admit though, if it wasn't THAT...then it'd be community outrage.
That's irrelevant though as the reason was that it did not solve the problem the standoff created. -
Please dont spread false information with conspiracy theorys.FireHazard said:@douggie123 said:
The killer should be able to shut hatch if they find it first before the survivor. It's also annoying because I can always find hatch easy as anything when playing killer but as survivor it takes an age to find it if at all.They did have that mechanic when the PTB for the clown was around I believe (When he was the newest killer.) But the idea got tossed around and eventually closed for obvious reasons...Cough The community outrage Cough
The reason the closing of the hatch mechanic was scrapped was due to it not solving the problem of the hatch standoff, survivors having no hope could stealth around maybe touching a gen now and again but in the end the game went on for a stupid length.
It didn't fix the standoff problem where two stubborn people would rather stand there staring at eaxh other, it simply moved it to long hide and seek scenario prolonging the game in a different way.
This went against the hatch by design as it is to help end the game quicker so both sides can move on to another one. -
It punishes those who also are being chased and managed to get out, its akin punishing the killer by way of losing bloodpoints for not downing someone in that scenario.BACKSTABBER said:Less BP in exit if wounded or in dying would prevent trolling the killer in the exit gates
It wont solve any bming at the exit gates as they they would need to make it not punishable for the legit ones so they would just do it before the gates leaving enough time to still get out.
I don't understand how you can bm in the dying state? If you slugged someone and they managed to crawl there then that is on you for not hooking them. -
Why?
If you escape while injured or dying then you managed to achieve your objective regardless of the state you are in.
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Neither are really worth running unless you are playing in swf they are more team based perks, playing solo they are wasted imo as others benefit you more.
You won't see any new Ochido videos as he was banned around the 26th of January on his ps4 account, the player base for once united to thank the devs
.
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Yes it's bannable due to the death threats as they treat them seriously.
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Your both very welcome
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From my personal experience killer queue is longer as i get survivor queues instantly and I have saw more killers complaining about queue times than survivors over the past months.Orion said:@twistedmonkey said:
Queues were longer for survivors due to the event being more survivor sided point wise, they adusted killer scoring for that very fact.Just a heads up to people so to not make this scenario something it's not.
And how do you explain survivor queues having become longer over the past several months? The event was just the last straw, nothing more.
Most of the recent survivor ones have mainly been on PS4 where there was a nat problem being discussed. -
If it is the same person and they constantly do it to you it can fall under griefing and harassment so it should be bannable for them as they are working with the killer especially when they let them escape.
Best bet is to report them with a video as the more they get the better the chance of it happening. -
Queues were longer for survivors due to the event being more survivor sided point wise, they adusted killer scoring for that very fact.Orion said:The difference is that when survivors were dodging, queues were impossibly long for both sides. Right now, queues are long for survivors because there aren't many people playing killer.
Just a heads up to people so to not make this scenario something it's not.
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Yeah it's OR.
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If the others in your solo lobby are in an swf it can happen often, the tell tale sign is a low ranked player in the lobby.
The matchmaking needs fixed so this cant happen, the killer should be taken off the highest ranked player in a lobby when any swf are in it. -
It depends on what you have in terms of perks, leatherface can be a weak killer but bbq is a great perk for extra BP, Franklin's is also a nice perk.
The hag is fun to play and has great map control and has ruin and devour hope, he's totems so can be taken out in seconds but if you get use out of them they can turn a game around.
So leatherface for the perks and hag for fun imo.
You can get the hag with 9k shards so if you want to farm instead of buying there is that option. -
They just need to remove survivor names and the ability to see the profile, they removed survivors being able to do it for absusing dodging so I do not see why its right to leave it so the other side can do the same.
Anyone who believe's survivors shouldn't be able to dodge for things within the games parameters just because they dont agree with them should welcome the idea.
The killer should be able to see survivors with items so they can setup to play versus them, they do need to also work on being able to dodge for items and at the same time remove being able to last second switch as they go hand in hand.
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She doesnt need extra blinks i agree, most good player don't use that as it ruins the muscle memory.
They do need to rework her other add-ons to not have such downsides as well -
Depends on your rank, if you are in 20-16 its the new zone so less players as you cant derank into it, also if survivors join and leave it can bug it out, red ranks can also be problematic at times as some survivors derank out of there.
Rank reset is tomorrow.
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I would prefer original chucky, robot chucky seems kinda meh, too little info about him atm is he possessed still? Is he a robot malfunction? I dunno the original creator is agaisnt the movie so it seem it may go against some of the normal idea.
There is alot you can do with his original form of a possessed doll, you could possess survivors for so many seconds and make them blow up gens, drop pallets when you want etc he could also change between solo and human form as a possibility.
It would be amazing if he could take control of one of the survivors for a short period of time but that gets negated with SWF in comms so its not worth it, if only though......
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I think some would but how many who knows, with SWF being In roughly half the games played is it a risk any sensible business would want to take?
The game can have over 400k+ players in a week, the percentage who would leave no one knows but even it it only lost 1% out of that who would buy the dlc that is 28k loss in sales and 21k in profit (steam changed so after 10 million in sales they only take 25% so worked it out on that)
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Imo it would be bad for the game and the devs dont ever want to do it but in many cases the few could ruin it for the many.starkiller1286 said:
So the killer goes in completely blind which defeats the purpose of them being able to pick perks to counter items amazing.TheBean said:Some will.. or they will adapt and suck it up. I hope they keep dodging.. cause I see only one outcome from it. The Devs will have to crack down on dodging and make it so you can't see anyone in your lobby other then 4 random people.. You won't see their profile.. names... ranks... levels.... clothing... items...
Of course the logical way to sort it is for those who dodge for items or clothing could get the option removed only for doing it so many times and it lasts a certain amount of games that have to be completed, it just depends if they are capable of making that happen. -
I don't have an issue with that, if they can do it both at the same time all the better.Zarathos said:i agree dodging need to be dealt with. But and this is important it should be coincided with nerfing swf. Primarily gen speed and healing speed progress reduced by a % based on the number of players who are swfed and the % should increase dependent on the number of players are on the same team. This would accommodate for a number of advantage swf has including totem location information and gen progress being communicated across the team.
I thought of them having more gens or another objective, totems change spawn location every so often, gens don't have a progress bar, items and offering can't stack apart from BP ones, it all depends on how many are in the match, things to slow the game down and remove some of the location spotting advantages they have, and make it less tedious for killers to play versus.
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1 I do express concern for this against SWF as I state I beleive it is imbalanced and needs nerfed, that doesn't mean I agree with lobby dodging as I have always stated you should play the game as it is now and now how you want it to be.knell said:@twistedmonkey said:
I am saying they are currently changing the matchmaking, all survivors and killer will load into a pre lobby and get matched up and every 30 second they will join the lobby we have now so all survivors will join at once eaxh and every game, some players dodged when that happens currently as it was a way to tell if they were swf, so they are with this new system removing that option.That's the point they shouldn't be allowed they should play the game as it is and stop cherry picking games, with what I said above it seems the devs are already taking a step towards making that happen.
The proof regarding the bugs is there for you to read yourself on this very forum, it is the reason they state they are changing the matchmaking, it just so happens that it also removed the killers way of all joining at once to dodge for swf, while that could be coincidental it seems logical with the lobby dodging problem it could also be an intended feature.
With the emblem system camping can in fact be game breaking as it removes you from being able to get an emblem, doing gens and getting out punishes it but it also means you may not pip.
Lobby dodging may not be bannable but do you honestly think they like it happening? As I already stated the new system will remove a way to tell if its SWF coincidental or not it's changing, they could easily add an swf indicator but you know they won't and for good reason.
Of cours eit hold merit, any designer knows what tools are available, they chose to add swf knowing the tools to communicate were out there, do you honestly think it was never brought up in conversation when they were discussing it? The game is a coop multiplayer no matter the original concept it changed from the business point of view, it is and always will be part if the game, nothing will ever change that, the fact that the stats show killer over 55% win rate also tells the devs it's not as unbalanced as the complainers say, it is impossible to balance swf and solo, they need to nerf swf imo how they do I don't know but buffing solo isn't working, that doesn't mean I will agree t9 people cherry picking games as I beleive for one it helps to gives the devs the above false stats when only the best killers will decide not to dodge.
Think about it they added the option to play with friends, the dodging is being complained about constantly and they are now changing matchmaking due to it being buggy while coincidently also removing a way to tell if the lobby has swf, I personally think that tells you how they perceive dodging.
Given how you continued to: 1. express concern for people who have to wait for a lobby, but refused to have the same empathy for people being forced into unbalanced games, despite the fact that I drew the correlation multiple, multiple times over the last few posts, 2. started using phrases like "could also be an intended feature" to use speculations as a part of your argument, 3. call camping "game breaking," 4. state things like, "the devs frequently change their mind" two posts ago, but turn around and say, "it is and always will be part if the game, nothing will ever change that" just to fit your current argument, and 5. have a long sentence about the "impossibility" of balancing SWF and solo when all it would take is creating a new mode for it,
that you have absolutely no interest in holding a conversation, listening to what I am saying, or sharing an interest about balancing the game for the better. Good luck in your life.
2 yes it's speculation, by using the word coincidental I imply that, do you honestly think the devs from a business standpoint are happy about the lobby dodging of the largest demographic!
3 I never said it was game breaking I said it can be, if you can't see how someone downing the first person and standing at the hook denying emblem objectives of the game, I don't know what to say, for your info I do defend camping in the right context as it is a legit tactic.
4 yes the devs change their mind on many things but swf has been one constant they have never budged or talked about in such a way, if you truly believe any business would remove the aspect which brings in the most money again I don't know what to tell you, the last stats had 30% solo players, that's could mean at peak time if all was equal it is around 15k around are in swf, half the population of the game.
5 a new mode seperates the playerbase and since thw last stats showed 70% of games had swf in them how many killers do you think would openly play versus them, you also have to factor in why and if its too good a reason then what happen to the ones in a solo queue? Its not as straight forward as you put it, they may as well give an see indicator which again would mean more dodges and something that I personally do not think they would add as they do not want players to find it hard to get in a match who bought the game.
So stating i believe dodging needs to be eliminated for the good of the game as its simply cherry picking matches and also I that I believe skews the balance figures, also stating I beleive swf should be nerfed is about balancing the game for the better doesnt say I am interested in balancing the game for the good of it? Ok then.............
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It wasn't long ago It was killers who had the issue with queues times and complained on the forums, event tend to have that effect when one side can earn more points it has happened in everyone so far for one side, just look at the blight and how they aslo had to make changes to it for that very reason.Tucking_Friggered said:@twistedmonkey said:
And what happens when SWF dont fall into your way of knowing by changing clothes, items and hiding profiles? what happens if the devs remove survivor profiles from the lobby? how will you ever know? players can adapt and they will, just like the majority of good killer out there that do not care about SWF.
Its not a threat about banning you, it has been happening for months, go ahead DC a lot, do you really think the devs care about a random salty people such as yourself that wants to cherry pick games to make them easier? you seem to think very highly of yourself.
At the end of the day its a game, run by people trying to make money, if you cant see why they would try and stop this from happening to the largest demographic then you must be blind, i suggest maybe you should start looking for another game as you cleary have issues with this one!
I've played since the beginning and I have seen so many people such as yourself make the same threats over and over, this game will die, lobby times will get longer, enjoy no killer blah blah and none of it has ever happened and funnily enough as I already said the game has been growing steadily, its just a lot of hot air and empty threats from some players akin to throwing their toys out the pram screaming "its not fair, its not fair, I want, I want" yet again.
The question is if there is something out there better why aren't you already playing it? Hmmmm.......
Actually I am playing a lot of different games my man. I don't play DbD that much sans a game or two here and there when bored. That said I am still capable of dodging SWF and until I am not I have a workaround. I don't understand what your difficulty in understanding the premise is.
DbD might be growing but it isn't growing evenly in the way needed as it is mostly SWF squads from other games looking to come and bully killers after watching Ochido vids and such.
I'm not going to banned because I'm not going to stick around when it is obvious all I am facing is SWF and repeatedly disconnect. I'll move on to more productive endeavors as will many killers and leave you and Mathieu begging for players to play the killer like you had to do for this event.
Well Since 70% of games have swf in them good luck on dcing and not be banned, if you don't play much why care? Swf isn't going anywhere but those who dc too much are.
You say DBD isn't growing equally, I would ask you to show the stats on that but I known you can't, it's an assumption to try and make a point but it fails flat, the only way assume if its not growing equally is by lobby times and disregarding the event over the past months I have personally seen more playing killers complain about long wait times in certain ranks, could be the bug hence the new lobby system but who knows. -
I am saying they are currently changing the matchmaking, all survivors and killer will load into a pre lobby and get matched up and every 30 second they will join the lobby we have now so all survivors will join at once eaxh and every game, some players dodged when that happens currently as it was a way to tell if they were swf, so they are with this new system removing that option.knell said:@twistedmonkey said:
Yes they hid the and game perks which needed done and has been asked for while at the same time making a lobby system where you won't be able to tell if its an see who joins, who knows jot seeing survivor profile could be next, will you then complain? Leave the game?I... don't understand what you are trying to say here.
@twistedmonkey said:
While I agree with what you say about swf being unbalanced logically the nurse can also be said to be unbalanced as she negates the core mechanics of the game, any aura perk can be unbalanced as they negate stealth, any perk which rewards failure to do the objective before the end game could be stated as unbalanced, gen time can be said to be unbalanced but with all of these the stats show balance over the user base, the point isn't simply because something is unbalanced it's the fact of cherry picking what you want play versus due to it, that is wrong imo.All of these examples you gave are opinions, unlike the SWF/Solo/Killer balance issue, which can be logically proven. In addition, when we are talking about core game design, as I stated earlier, things are either in balance, or not in balance. Although people may debate over what balance specifically means, there's no such thing as "can be unbalanced" (unless you are speaking of on individual basis, like you seemed to be doing.) I've provided the difference between the reason why the voice chat is imbalanced, and the types of things you believe to be imbalanced.
@twistedmonkey said:
Again while I agree it still doesn't give anyone the right to make the decision of making people wait for a game for playing within the rules, the devs frequently change their mind, at one point they said looping was an exploit and now it's a mechinc, camping is a legit strat but they are trying to get killers to leave the hook etc.So let the developers change their minds. Let them change their minds about killers choosing specific lobbies. Let them change their minds about voice chat. Either way, as it stands right now, just as people are allowed to take advantage of voice chat, people are being allowed to choose their own lobbies. Nothing more to say.
@twistedmonkey said:
Players can sit in a lobby due to matchmaking bugs not simple the user base, the figures show it has grown, it wasn't long ago it was killer taking longer and is one of the reason they are changing the match making as it bugs out, abusing is the word as it exactly what the survivors did to get the killers profile removed from the lobby, you are using an in game system to cherry pick games as you deem them not worth your time, again if everyone had the right to do this for what they consider imbalanced within the game what would be left? If you beleive the survivors were wrong to dodge campers, certain killers etc but think it's ok to do this then that is an entitled viewpoint.Sure, if you want to gently sway this conversation into "problems with matchmaking" and "matchmaking bugs" instead of "lack of killers," that's perfectly fine. Of course, there's no proof of it currently, but sure. If the 15 minutes of waiting for survivors are due to matchmaking bugs, then guess what, you should be telling the developers to fix the matchmaking bug, instead of continually blaming killers for wanting a more fair game, which, like we agreed earlier, is allowed since the developers have not taken any actions against it, according to your logic.
Again, survivors dodging campers why? Camping is not inherently game breaking, unlike Voice Comm, for its overall balance. We've already established the difference between why something is logically imbalanced and something is imbalanced due to "people's opinions." If you are determined to continue this route, I'm going to assume that you are simply trolling.
@twistedmonkey said:
The players using comes are doing so within the rules of the game, the devs have never stated it's against the rules, it's not bannable,Again, killers searching for more fair games are doing so within the rules of the game, the devs have never stated it's against the rules, it's not bannable.
@twistedmonkey said:
it's common in every game to use comms when playing with friends so are they really using something out of the ordinary? The fact still remains that doing something about it is in the hands of the devs and it seems they are with the new matchmaking system, who knows it's being made to fix bugs but the fact it also makes everyone every game join at once hides a way of detecting swf without them having to spell it out seem very coincidental dont you think?Your argument "because open communication is common in all the other games, it is essential that it is provided in this game also" holds no merit. Part of designing games is figuring out what sets it apart from all the other games. The game designer must come up with its own rules for its own game. If 'hidden information' is a critical part of game design, then figure out a way to enforce it. Otherwise, don't make it part of game design in the first place.
That's the point they shouldn't be allowed they should play the game as it is and stop cherry picking games, with what I said above it seems the devs are already taking a step towards making that happen.
The proof regarding the bugs is there for you to read yourself on this very forum, it is the reason they state they are changing the matchmaking, it just so happens that it also removed the killers way of all joining at once to dodge for swf, while that could be coincidental it seems logical with the lobby dodging problem it could also be an intended feature.
With the emblem system camping can in fact be game breaking as it removes you from being able to get an emblem, doing gens and getting out punishes it but it also means you may not pip.
Lobby dodging may not be bannable but do you honestly think they like it happening? As I already stated the new system will remove a way to tell if its SWF coincidental or not it's changing, they could easily add an swf indicator but you know they won't and for good reason.
Of cours eit hold merit, any designer knows what tools are available, they chose to add swf knowing the tools to communicate were out there, do you honestly think it was never brought up in conversation when they were discussing it? The game is a coop multiplayer no matter the original concept it changed from the business point of view, it is and always will be part if the game, nothing will ever change that, the fact that the stats show killer over 55% win rate also tells the devs it's not as unbalanced as the complainers say, it is impossible to balance swf and solo, they need to nerf swf imo how they do I don't know but buffing solo isn't working, that doesn't mean I will agree t9 people cherry picking games as I beleive for one it helps to gives the devs the above false stats when only the best killers will decide not to dodge.
Think about it they added the option to play with friends, the dodging is being complained about constantly and they are now changing matchmaking due to it being buggy while coincidently also removing a way to tell if the lobby has swf, I personally think that tells you how they perceive dodging.
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@Tucking_Friggered said:
You are making a lot of assumptions. But at the end of the day killers know who is SWF once they get in game if not by how they equip. For many the game will be closed down. I can tell you that threatening to ban me won't matter in slightest as I'll simply take that as my queue to leave and go play something else. That doesn't help your issue in the slightest as you will still sit in queue ultimately. There are not enough people willing to endure SWF to alleviate that and if they existed you wouldn't be having this issue now. It's akin to saying if you ignore the cancer it won't kill you.
Let me reiterate it for you and the dev team. We, as in those who refuse to play under those circumstances, can't find a single F to give about SWF players and their issues. We don't care how profitable letting them make fools of killers are. No matter what you try and enforce will have no effect as we will simply not play and there is no trump card to that.
So our choice will be made and we'll play something else better. Now you have a choice too. How long will you wait in queues before you realize that you didn't get what you wanted and that you are absolutely powerless in enforcing what the killer will endure?
The end.
And what happens when SWF dont fall into your way of knowing by changing clothes, items and hiding profiles? what happens if the devs remove survivor profiles from the lobby? how will you ever know? players can adapt and they will, just like the majority of good killer out there that do not care about SWF.
Its not a threat about banning you, it has been happening for months, go ahead DC a lot, do you really think the devs care about a random salty people such as yourself that wants to cherry pick games to make them easier? you seem to think very highly of yourself.
At the end of the day its a game, run by people trying to make money, if you cant see why they would try and stop this from happening to the largest demographic then you must be blind, i suggest maybe you should start looking for another game as you cleary have issues with this one!
I've played since the beginning and I have seen so many people such as yourself make the same threats over and over, this game will die, lobby times will get longer, enjoy no killer blah blah and none of it has ever happened and funnily enough as I already said the game has been growing steadily, its just a lot of hot air and empty threats from some players akin to throwing their toys out the pram screaming "its not fair, its not fair, I want, I want" yet again.
The question is if there is something out there better why aren't you already playing it? Hmmmm.......
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Yes they hid the and game perks which needed done and has been asked for while at the same time making a lobby system where you won't be able to tell if its an see who joins, who knows jot seeing survivor profile could be next, will you then complain? Leave the game?knell said:@twistedmonkey said:
Just because something CAN be done doesn't mean you shouldLook. These are your words. Now tell me, knowing that sharing of information impacts heavily on this game that revolves around hidden information, do you think that just because voice chat CAN be done, it should be used? After 2 years, the developers finally did something that they should have done from the very beginning, which is to hide the end-screen informations for killers, what does that tell you?
@twistedmonkey said:
How can you say some think the nurse to be imbalanced and it do the rid or isnt but then say some think swf is the same way, That statement contradicts itself by an either is or isn't scenario, that means it comes down to personal opinion only, some killer mains don't think swf is imbalanced and enjoy playing versus it.Again, it doesn't matter that some individual killers think that SWF is balanced or not. It's not a matter of personal opinion. It's purely logic. Is the killer balanced for solo survivors? Then SWF with voice coms, who has everything that solo survivors have but with vast amount of shared information, is overpowered. Is the killer balanced for SWF survivors? Then solo survivors, who lacks all the extra shared information, are underpowered. Is the killer balanced for average between the two? Then on average, the SWF is still overpowered, and solo survivors are underpowered. This isn't an opinion. It's a fact.
@twistedmonkey said:
but don't abuse something it wasn't designed forAgain, these are your words. This game wasn't designed for Voice Chat. "It’s anti-social multiplayer where survivors have to collaborate and cooperate up to a certain point. The old saying is that you don’t need to be fast than the killer, you just need to be faster than your friends. (Cote)" Also: "That being said, however, this is a game where we tried to have this horror atmosphere, this sense of isolation, there's no spoken dialogue in the game, it's very lonely and quiet, except for the pounding of drums when you are about to die. And that's all intentional. It really builds up the feeling of the game (McLean)." These quotes are both from the end of 2018. In the end, the developers decided to condone it because they don't want to bother or can't figure how to remove it. But it wasn't designed for it - it's not part of the core mechanic that makes DBD what it is. In fact, it completely destroyed the balance of this game - we all know that.
@twistedmonkey said:
I am not sugar coating anything as I speak up about swf needing nerfs but you are using it as an excuse to justify abusing something which is infact wrong, each player bought the game to play, as long as it is within the games rules its fair, do you think it's right for someone to sit in a lobby for 15 mins and then be dodged for simply using what is allowed?If someone is sitting in a lobby for 15 minutes, then that means we just need more killers. You said earlier that this game has grown. Then tell me exactly why someone would be sitting in the lobby for 15 minutes? The population may have grown, but the less appealing part of this game has not. That's the main problem. But it's easier to just blame the people desperately trying to find a more fair game, isn't it? You keep using the word "abusing" to describe what killers are doing to get a more fair game. What word would you use to describe player who knowingly use applications that they know breaks the game, but still use it because they know that the developers can't do anything to stop them?
While I agree with what you say about swf being unbalanced logically the nurse can also be said to be unbalanced as she negates the core mechanics of the game, any aura perk can be unbalanced as they negate stealth, any perk which rewards failure to do the objective before the end game could be stated as unbalanced, gen time can be said to be unbalanced but with all of these the stats show balance over the user base, the point isn't simply because something is unbalanced it's the fact of cherry picking what you want play versus due to it, that is wrong imo.
Again while I agree it still doesn't give anyone the right to make the decision of making people wait for a game for playing within the rules, the devs frequently change their mind, at one point they said looping was an exploit and now it's a mechinc, camping is a legit strat but they are trying to get killers to leave the hook etc.
Players can sit in a lobby due to matchmaking bugs not simple the user base, the figures show it has grown, it wasn't long ago it was killer taking longer and is one of the reason they are changing the match making as it bugs out, abusing is the word as it exactly what the survivors did to get the killers profile removed from the lobby, you are using an in game system to cherry pick games as you deem them not worth your time, again if everyone had the right to do this for what they consider imbalanced within the game what would be left? If you beleive the survivors were wrong to dodge campers, certain killers etc but think it's ok to do this then that is an entitled viewpoint.
The players using comes are doing so within the rules of the game, the devs have never stated it's against the rules, it's not bannable, it's common in every game to use comms when playing with friends so are they really using something out of the ordinary? The fact still remains that doing something about it is in the hands of the devs and it seems they are with the new matchmaking system, who knows it's being made to fix bugs but the fact it also makes everyone every game join at once hides a way of detecting swf without them having to spell it out seem very coincidental dont you think? -
Of course they have or it wouldnt have stayed in the game, the new match making will be the biggest change on top of that to forcing you so far so I guess you now have a choice to make.Tucking_Friggered said:@twistedmonkey said:
Tucking_Friggered said:What the devs accept as fair game and what the player base will actually log in and play under are two separate things and only one matters.They can make any ruleset they care to but unless they have people playing it won't matter.
Well since the game came out players like yourself have said the same things over and over and yet the game has kept growning, what does that tell you.
That they haven't tried to force SWF on killers.
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Survivors dodging lobbies was ok until killers complained so does that mean it was ok for them to do it back then? Just because something CAN be done doesn't mean you should, the upcoming change to matchmaking makes everyone join at once so it will be harder to tell if it swf, what does that tell you?knell said:@twistedmonkey said:
That's just trying to justify the reason for doing it, anything that is accepted by the devs is fair game.And that just goes back to saying that killer choosing lobbies 'is a fair game' because it's accepted by the devs.
@twistedmonkey said:
You are saying because something is unbalanced you have the right to dodge, you know some perks are unbalanced on both sides should these then be shown so each side can cherry pick what they wish to play agaisnt?The Nurse can be unbalanced to some players should they have the right to dodge all Nurse players?
No matter how you try to sugar coat it it is abusing the system just like the survivors did so it was rightly taken away, just like those who derank and dc should be dealt with better also, abusing something because you feel it shouldn't be in the game is all you are doing nothing else, you are just as bad as those survivors in the past.
What do you mean, The Nurse 'can be imbalanced to some players?' The Nurse is either imbalanced for this game, or it's not. Just like Voice Chat isn't just 'imbalanced for some players.' The problem is that voice chat breaks the balance for the whole game where solo/killers/SWF all have different standards. The question isn't whether an aspect of the game is unfair to each individual player - it's whether it imbalances the way this entire game is played - whether or not it breaks the core gameplay. If it is, then it should either be removed, or avoided.
It seems like you're the one sugarcoating the impact SWF/Voice Chat has on the game as a whole. By your logic, if players are abusing Voice Chat on SWF because the developers are helpless to stop it, perhaps they should remove it from the core gameplay and put it somewhere else.
At this point, I feel like we are talking in circles. Unless you have something new to add, I probably won't be responding.
How can you say some think the nurse to be imbalanced and it is or it isnt but then say some think swf is the same way? That contradicts the actual argument you are trying to make, it then becomes an either is or isn't scenario, that means it comes down to personal opinion only, some killer mains don't think swf is imbalanced and enjoy playing versus it so who is in the right?
In my opinion swf with comms is unbalanced and I think they need to look at it but that is not for me to decide if I should play versus them by abusing the system in place, the Nurse in essense also breaks the core gameplay as she negates what survivor have to create distance, the Legion breaks the core gameplay as they have no counter, things change, thing are accepted, what you think the game should be is not what the devs obviously think and since it is their game you either accept it or not but don't abuse something it wasn't designed for because you feel it's unfair.
I am not sugar coating anything as I speak up about swf needing nerfs but you are using it as an excuse to justify abusing something which is infact wrong, each player bought the game to play, as long as it is within the games rules its fair, do you think it's right for someone to sit in a lobby for 15 mins and then be dodged for simply using what is allowed? That is what happened to have the killers profile removed from the lobby, it's history repeating itself so why should it not be treated the same way?
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You can use all the straw mans you want, doesn't change the fact you are just trying to justify an abuse of the system as you feel it's unfair.NathanExplosion said:Devs said back then that "Infinite take skill" to please the majority (temporaly of course).
Couple that with their in game store...
Nothing else too add.
(Such greed tho...)
Lots of things are deemed unfair and as I said should they all be dodgeable? If not you are simply showing a hypocritical attitude. -
Well since the game came out players like yourself have said the same things over and over and yet the game has kept growning, what does that tell you.Tucking_Friggered said:What the devs accept as fair game and what the player base will actually log in and play under are two separate things and only one matters.They can make any ruleset they care to but unless they have people playing it won't matter.
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That's just trying to justify the reason for doing it, anything that is accepted by the devs is fair game.knell said:@twistedmonkey said:
So why not allow survivors to dodge lobbies for what they think is unfair?They allowed survivors to dodge lobbies but removed it as killer complained, now survivors are being dodged does that not constitute exactly the same scenario?
The lobby scenario to see survivors is so you can setup not to cherry pick but if you want that option removed by all means justify the behaviour.
It's just being hypocritical accept the game for what it is or it simply being petty about something you don't agree with nothing more.
Like I said, when killers close down lobbies, it's to correct the imbalance of SWF and Voice Chat. Why would the survivors need to dodge certain killers? What game imbalance are they correcting?
You are saying because something is unbalanced you have the right to dodge, you know some perks are unbalanced on both sides should these then be shown so each side can cherry pick what they wish to play agaisnt?
The Nurse can be unbalanced to some players should they have the right to dodge all Nurse players?
No matter how you try to sugar coat it it is abusing the system just like the survivors did so it was rightly taken away, just like those who derank and dc should be dealt with better also, abusing something because you feel it shouldn't be in the game is all you are doing nothing else, you are just as bad as those survivors in the past. -
This has been said over and over, it's another "if you do this the game will die" it doesn't justifying abusing what you have to cherry pick, of you don't like the game and can't accept it what it is why play it anyway?Tsulan said:
This game has treated killers unfairly for a very long time. It wouldn't surprise me if the devs gave in again to the ridiculous demands of survivors. But this would kill the game. Only a small amount of masochistic killers will keep playing.twistedmonkey said:All these replies just prove my point, dodging for anything that is accepted is just because you think it's unfair and not fun.
The devs accept voice chat, the devs could easily disable swf if they believe it is not meant to work that way, the devs willl not as playing with friends and voice chat go hand in hand and it would impact sales, that's the bottom line it IS part of the game third party program or not.
You want to keep cherry picking games and try to justify it nothing else, yes swf is unbalanced but it's a game and everything in it accepted should be fair game, the devs need to sort it it is not on the players to decide that and to think otherwise is just using an excuse to fit your narative.
Keep dodging though as like they did with those survivors who abused it as it was rh right thing to do the ability will be taken away from killers as well, you will then threaten to leave and say the queues will become long but in the end like all of what has been complained about in the past the game will go on and those of us that do accept the game as is flaws and all.
The decent players will continue to give feedback and the stats needed by playing each and every game helping the game become better without stamping our feet and cherry picking games pouting behind a monitor stating thats unfair.
Nerf NOED the game will die, remove pallets the game will die, nerf flashlights the game will die, each time these posts appear when a change happens someone just doesnt like and guess what! The game has grown. -
So why not allow survivors to dodge lobbies for what they think is unfair?knell said:@twistedmonkey said:
All these replies just prove my point, dodging for anything that is accepted is just because you think it's unfair and not fun.The devs accept voice chat, the devs could easily disable swf if they believe it is not meant to work that way, the devs willl not as playing with friends and voice chat go hand in hand and it would impact sales, that's the bottom line it IS part of the game third party program or not.
You want to keep cherry picking games and try to justify it nothing else, yes swf is unbalanced but it's a game and everything in it accepted should be fair game, the devs need to sort it it is not on the players to decide that and to think otherwise is just using an excuse to fit your narative.
I don't understand how you keep saying that 'voice chat' is part of the game, but 'killers choosing their own lobbies' isn't. Just as the devs forced SWF into the core game despite knowing it can be abused by voice chat, they also implemented a feature which allows killer to choose their own lobbies despite the fact that it can be used to cherry-pick. What's the problem? If you are arguing that one is 'part of the game,' so is the other.
Do you know what the true difference between SWF's 'voice chat' and killer's 'choosing his/her own lobby' is? Voice chat breaks the balance of the game, while killer choosing their own lobby attempts to correct that imbalance.
They allowed survivors to dodge lobbies but removed it as killer complained, now survivors are being dodged does that not constitute exactly the same scenario?
The lobby scenario to see survivors is so you can setup not to cherry pick but if you want that option removed by all means justify the behaviour.
It's just being hypocritical accept the game for what it is or it simply being petty about something you don't agree with nothing more.
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All these replies just prove my point, dodging for anything that is accepted is just because you think it's unfair and not fun.
The devs accept voice chat, the devs could easily disable swf if they believe it is not meant to work that way, the devs willl not as playing with friends and voice chat go hand in hand and it would impact sales, that's the bottom line it IS part of the game third party program or not.
You want to keep cherry picking games and try to justify it nothing else, yes swf is unbalanced but it's a game and everything in it accepted should be fair game, the devs need to sort it it is not on the players to decide that and to think otherwise is just using an excuse to fit your narative.
Keep dodging though as like they did with those survivors who abused it as it was rh right thing to do the ability will be taken away from killers as well, you will then threaten to leave and say the queues will become long but in the end like all of what has been complained about in the past the game will go on and those of us that do accept the game as is flaws and all.
The decent players will continue to give feedback and the stats needed by playing each and every game helping the game become better without stamping our feet and cherry picking games pouting behind a monitor stating thats unfair.
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So you are ok punishing players for the mistakes the devs made?Rebel_Raven said:Voice chat, or any chat during trials is not part of the game, though.
The game is not balanced around it.
Why do you think there are so many aura reading perks so survivors can see eachother?
It's an antisocial game. Cote said so himself.
They can't punish people that use voice chat because there's no way to detect it if people really want to use it.
It is apples and oranges because it's not the same thing to compare using outside programs to get an edge vs not using outside programs to only play with what's actually in the game.
It doesn't matter if something unbalances a game what matters is the act of dodging for something which is accepted by the people who make the game.
Of course they cant detect it but that doesn't remove the fact they knew it would be used, I also highly doubt anyone with a multiplayer game would ban for using voice chat and to think so I believe is clutching at straws.
Multiplayer games where friends play together have always had comms, it still comes down to cherry picking games for a reason you deem unfair nothing else and are simply trying to justify it.
Many things are deemed unfair in this game, a lot of things have been overlooked just like the impact of looping, just because comms isn't built into the game does not mean it wasn't thought of being used by the players, that is again clutching at straws. -
If it's part of the game and accepted then you have to deal with it, it is not apples and oranges, it comes down to you simply not agreeing with something because you think it's unfair.Rebel_Raven said:
3rd party voice chat isn't bannable because there's nothing they can do to stop it. Considered that?twistedmonkey said:
While swf and voice chat so give a stupid advantage the devs accept it as part of the game hence it is not bannable so must be accepted.Rebel_Raven said:
The problem with this analogy is that a lot of SWFs often use third party programs (voice chat/text) to ruin the experience for the killer.twistedmonkey said:To the players that think dodging is fair game when it looks to be an unfun match, do you think they should allow survivors to see the killer profile in the lobby again so they can do the same?
Voice chat isn't in the game. Or any chat really during a trial.
If SWF were strictly only using what is in the game, killers might not have issue with SWF to begin with.
If the killer were to use third party programs to get an edge, it's basically a bannable offense.
The killer, as much unfun as it might be, is basically only using what's in the game.
This ssays you think it's ok for one side to dodge as they think it's unfun but not the other, why should only one side have that option?
It gives an immense edge to survivors, and it's not in the game.
Because one side is dodging to avoid the other side having a massive advantage that they shouldn't have.
The other is dodging because of purely ingame stuff basically.
Apples and oranges.
No dev will think a multiplayer game where friends play together will not use comms, to think otherwise is being in denial, if they underestimated it's impact then that's on the devs so why punish the players using it?
If one side can cherry pick the other side should be able too as well plain and simple.
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Why do you think you have the right to dodge for something accepted by the devs just because you deem it's unfair?PiiFree said:@twistedmonkey said:
Dis you miss how I said allow them "again"? That implies they used to and it was taken away.Any way if you are saying survivors abused it what are killers doing now? Are they not now abusing that option? So you are saying the option for killers should also be taken away now.
If Killers had the possibility to restrict SWFs from joining their lobby then yes, they can remove that option.
Most Killers dodge because they try to avoid people that use a 3rd party software to gain unintended advantages (SWF/Voice communication).
That's the main difference. Killers dodge unfair matches while Survivors dodged specific Killers.
The devs stated swf was always planned, no dev would think those playing with each other wouldn't use comms, they did underestimate how it would impact the game but that is on them not the players you dodge for using it.
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Did you miss the usuage of my words "allow them again"? That implies they used to be able too and it was taken away.PiiFree said:@twistedmonkey said:
To the players that think dodging is fair game when it looks to be an unfun match, do you think they should allow survivors to see the killer profile in the lobby again so they can do the same?Jokes on you, this was the case in the early days and Survivors abused the hell out of it so they removed it.
Any way if you are saying survivors abused it what are killers doing now? If one side abused it and now the other is doing the same should that option for killers be removed now? -
While swf and voice chat do give a huge advantage the devs accept it as part of the game hence it is not bannable so must be accepted.Rebel_Raven said:
The problem with this analogy is that a lot of SWFs often use third party programs (voice chat/text) to ruin the experience for the killer.twistedmonkey said:To the players that think dodging is fair game when it looks to be an unfun match, do you think they should allow survivors to see the killer profile in the lobby again so they can do the same?
Voice chat isn't in the game. Or any chat really during a trial.
If SWF were strictly only using what is in the game, killers might not have issue with SWF to begin with.
If the killer were to use third party programs to get an edge, it's basically a bannable offense.
The killer, as much unfun as it might be, is basically only using what's in the game.
This says you think it's ok for one side to dodge as they think it's unfun but not the other, why should only one side have that option? -
To the players that think dodging is fair game when it looks to be an unfun match, do you think they should allow survivors to see the killer profile in the lobby again so they can do the same?
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It comes down to you can't comprehend that someone dislikes something that you like and feel strongly about.AlwaysInAGoodShape said:@fcc2014 said:
@AlwaysInAGoodShape i think @twistedmonkey has expressed that he didn't enjoy the event as you did. Some of us miss the bloodpoints, or had long wait times, or crappy teammates, or people not burning offerings, or disconnects or didn't get progress on multiple occasions. Maybe they experienced all of those things. You remind me of a Jehovah witness at my door.All the Bold parts of the quote are not really relevant and aren't part of creating compelling gameplay/denouncing it;
What did you guys think about the game-play aspects of the event?
Twistedmonkey doesn't like this event, but he doesn't understand why he doesn't like it, and as evident from his claims, it's something else than stated.
If you can't seem to handle that concept maybe you should talk to someone, just a thought. -
You are either seriously screwed up or trolling, I hope it's the latter I really do.AlwaysInAGoodShape said:You keep inflating 2 things.
You feel miserable because of a pain in your stomach. You say that it must be the disease: cancer. I try to tell you that it isn't cancer. And you tell me that I should stop trying to convince you that you don't feel a pain in your stomach.
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Is there something wrong with you? I am just asking as you cant seem to understand that someone simply does not agree with how you view this event.AlwaysInAGoodShape said:I'm not trying to push anything on you. I'm trying to make you state the underlying principles based on which you like an event. I'm not trying to change what you like, but what I do try is to make you see that it's not:
I think it was a mistake to make it versus each other player as events for myself always brought the community together
The event where people no longer vs'ed each other you disliked the most. If that is what you liked, then there is nothing wrong with that, but that isn't what you like, yet you claim that the principle of you not liking an even is it's competitive nature.
The event that you distance yourself one is the one opposite to that.You simply didn't formulate what you actually believe.
Where did I say I disliked the blight the most? I said I disliked this one the most, you know where they pit everyone versus one another, I stated that I didn't enjoy the blight as much as the priors ones I never mentioned it in context with this event, yes the blight had major issues and people left games once they had a full vial, that is what I disliked about it but the fact you weren't dependent on what others did to gain from it is also what I enjoyed along with once you got what you need you could chose to help the other side.
What's not to understand in my post? You seem way too hung up on analysing everything you seem to disregard how someone feels, not everything comes down to a written anthology on how something could be done, a personal opinion can and most likely will come down to what someone enjoys and feels good about when playing.
You can stop now as it's becoming tiresome for you to constantly try and convince me, I enjoyed the ones prior to the blight over the blight, I preferred the blight over this one, that's it end of story, nothing you can say or do will change how I personally enjoyed something, if you don't like it then don't ask for people opinion.
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Can't you see you are still trying to push your point of view but this time also telling me how I should have better said something?AlwaysInAGoodShape said:Well, I didn't start changing your mind.
You said:I think it was a mistake to make it versus each other player as events for myself always brought the community together
To which I responded:
Ah, you prefer the gamethrowing from the Blight Event. Hhhhh
Gamethrowing means not playing the game towards your win-condition. (Since theoretically in DBD you aren't even enemies, this can be argued about, but since the Devs declare siding with killers a bannable offence we view it as gamethrowing, which is how most people precieve it.)
So your comment of bringing people together and not vs'ing each other means game-throwing, witht he blight event being the pinnacle of that philosophy.
You could've simply said: yes, I prefer game-throwing. The killers walking past someone milking the flower brings people together as they don't play their original win-goal, but instead join forces in optimising event points.
See, I didn't argue with you. I confirmed your point, but the first thing you did was distancing yourself from the Blight Event, hinting that to be a suspicious example on my part.
That's where you started to argue against yourself.See, to the degree that people were united by the event, you disliked it:
The fact is yes the last events had farmers but not all games only if they chose too, it why I didn't like the blight as much an preferred the previous ones
Your argument was that the Blight Event was worse because people were more likely to play united, and you celebrated the other events to the degree that they didn't.
I tried to point out that the competitive nature of this event is why it's so good, and since you distanced yourself from the Blight Event (pinnacle of people uniting) where that was completely lacking, that made me interested.
Many of the things I say aren't even arguments really, but just things to consider;Me:
"You got to admit that: (first video 10:12-11:02) is significantly more meaningful that a usual escape."
To admit that something more scarce and harder to attain is more meaningful is very general. Not really that opinionated.
Me: Because that's the problem with all those events, with the Blight event being the pinnacle of that.
The competitive rewarding about this event is why such a thing didn't happen.You: That's not a problem in my eyes
But yet you distance yourself from the pinnacle of that; the least competitive rewarding system, bringing people so close together that a killer all too often didn't even attack them if they milked a flower.
I'm trying to make you see why you distanced yourself from the Blight Event. Because that statement wasn't an argument, but rather a confirmation about that it is exactly that you'd like about an event.
I actually never mentioned the blight until you did, in fact in my post before last I said I preferred the ones prior to the blight.
You are wrong imo as I preferred the past events, I am wrong in your opinion as you prefer this one.
Now stop trying to push your view onto me or do you constantly feel the need to with people who disagree with you. -
I tried dbd on my nephews ps4 console and the frame drops were horrendous.
I also tried it with an Xbox controller on my gaming laptop as I am in another country atm and using a controller was horrendous, I moved my laptop to another less comfortable location so I could plug my mouse in again.
Imo cross platform would show pc players as gods in the game, console killers would hate playing versus them even more than some pc players do now. -
Then why ask people's opinion and when they give it try and change thier mind? Why not simply say ok and move on?AlwaysInAGoodShape said:there is no point asking for opinions and then when they state it try and push your opinion on them.
I showed what the problematic aspects of a non-competitive system are. I wouldn't call that pushing. I'd call that convincing. Pushing would be denying your experience.
You can show whatever you like but that's just your own personal experience, it is not the same for everyone, your personal experience means very little to a person that didn't enjoy it as much as the others they have been part of so why even try and convince someone otherwise?
With all respect to keep posting and trying to convince someone with your opinion that this event is better by using your personal experience is in turn then denying my experience.
A personal experience is just that personal, a personal opinion on what one preferred is again personal, it needs no convicing it is what it is. -
The fact is yes the last events had farmers but not all games only if they chose too, it why I didn't like the blight as much an preferred the previous ones, the blight had issues.AlwaysInAGoodShape said:In games where there's farming, players who want to play the game-mode seriously suffer from the fact that others no longer play the actual game.
Somewhat similar to fortnite, where during events people will actually become mad at you when you try to play towards your win-condition.In the events like the blight event, I wasn't generally able to find interesting or highlightable games as most times it lead to game-throwing. In the BBQ event we too saw survivors helping killers with Blue hooks.
In other words, previous events delegitimised playing the actual game.
What is so beautiful about this event is that it highlighted something that was lost due to the blood-point and emblem system: and that is the value of ones own life. 2/1 general emblem points leading to pips, possibly irrelevant to your score or a general 5000 BP is significantly less impressive than missing out over 50% of the possible points you could score during a rare event (skins can still be bought) ofc.
This is why this is the only event that had such interesting gameplay resulting from it.
You got to admit that: (first video 10:12-11:02) is significantly more meaningful that a usual escape.
The third game in the OP would've most likely never happened as nobody really valued their life in DBD due to this BP and Emblem perversion of it's value.
This one had sandbaggers but not all games only of they chose too, it was more toxic than the others and people didnt play like the normal game as they played for the lantern and left more people to die sometimes on their first hook.
The last events prior to the blight were less toxic imo which is the huge plus for me.
I don't have to admit anything due to the videos you posted as that is not my personal experience, yours may differ and so be it.
It doesn't matter how you try to get your personal point of view over it won't change my personal opinion on what I found the most fun and most rewarding, there is no point asking for opinions and then when they state it try and push your opinion on them.
We disagree that's all, I said my point you said yours, no one is wrong and no one is right it's personal taste nothing more.
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That's not a problem in my eyes, it's where we differ, you didn't have to help the other side with a reward unless you wanted too it was a choice.AlwaysInAGoodShape said:Because that's the problem with all those events, with the Blight event being the pinnacle of that.
The competitive rewarding about this event is why such a thing didn't happen.
This event you also had a choice to get the reward or risk it by trying to help others.
I simply disagreed with what you think was better as I prefer an event which brings the community together for common goals rather than give it the oppertunity to be more toxic towards others.
