Hatch = free NOED for Survivors
The survivors always complain that NOED rewards killers for bad play.
But the hatch is like a free NOED in every game!
You can play perfectly as a killer but in the end you either have to slug one survivor (extremely fun and healthy gameplay) and search for the last survivor who is probably sitting in a corner or closet and is waiting for the other one to bleed out or die on the hook so he can go for the hatch or hook the poor one and hope that you find the hatch before the other one does.
Win condition Hatch. 2 gens need to be done.
And don't think of killers like Freddy who has absolutely no counterplay against a hatch-standoff!
He cannot grap a survivor unless he but them into dreamstate. If they aren't in dreamworld, they can simply walk up to the hatch. Buttdance and go as they please. 0 counterplay!
Comments
As a killer your survival depends on other three guys that might be literally braindead? No.
NOED rewards you if you fail as killer, the hatch compensates for having a bad team.
The hatch is only a problem if you're going for an Adept achievement. Or using a yellow Mori.
It is fun and healthy... for the killer.
But, not too much we can do about the hypocrisy in this community, only hope that good changes are made; so just have faith that they'll fix it. Honestly, my problem isnt with the hatch, it's with the people who get it. 99% of the time, the most useless player gets hatch, and not the person who deserves it.
God you're so incredibly wrong. Freddy has the BEST counterplay against Hatch. Slug the 3rd, hunt down the 4th. Simple. Any other killer may have difficulties finding the downed third survivor, after dealing with the fourth (unless they run Deerstalker).
Not Freddy.
I honestly can't understand all the complaints about Hatch. It's hardly a perfect concept, but the main goal is clear: the game must avoid a situation when the last remaining survivor has to repair one-two remaining gens, but cannot risk it, which leads to a boring half hour long hide-and-seek. Yeah the last survivor has a little easier time escaping, but that's not a big deal.
I know what you're getting at but I have to disgree, the hatch also rewards survivor for not working as a team, I know what I said can be seen as a counter to my previous post, but give me a second ye? If you are doing well then you should be allowed to get hatch. But if you blame your team for dying even when you yourself aren't helping (and no, I dont mean you specifically) then why should you get hatch. Like I said, it needs to be given to the right people, those who earned it, not to compensate because your team failed, as compensation implys reward for failure aswell.
@AlphaJackson Sarcasm - you need some in your life.
It just needs a bit of balance. I talked about an idea the other day where the killer would have exposed + kill ability once the hatch was open, but in return only the survivor could see/hear the hatch - and it never spawned until 1 survivor was left so nobody could camp it.
I think this could solve the standoff and make it mroe tense. The survivor sneaks around desperate for it, while the killer walks around looking for the survivor and wont get screwed by the weapon cooldown or decisive strike.
is it illegal to make an actual point/observation?
If there's only 1 survivor left, activate the ravens unless the survivor is in the terror radius or repairing a gen.
Give a repair speed bonus that stacks with left behind.
This would resolve the whole hatch standoff issue.
He still has to track and hit them.
Also NOED only punishes survivors that are to lazy to cleanse totems.
Nope, we all end up dying because noone did the last dull totem. It seems like no matter how often people die cuz of noed, they don't learn their lesson
That is one of the misconceptions that killer mains have.
Survivors do cleanse the totems. The problem is not that, at least for solo survivors.
In almost every match, there are 1 or 2 totems that are hidden well. Survivors find the rest and cleanse them dooming rest of the team.
This is why cleansing dull totems is a terrible idea for solo survivors. You don't know if your other survivor mates cleansed one, you don't know if the rest of the totems are in easy or okay places etc.
Small game is not helpful because it still doesn't give you the information you need.
There are 2 good ways to counter NOED. First one is detective's hunch. It is also a great counter to any other hex perk and I regularly use it.
I don't want to rewrite the second counter but if you are interested, here is my advice to another forum user.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/277855#Comment_277855
I don't hide in lockers btw, just saying that the hatch is a hindrance to both sides. I had times where I would run a killer just to see my teammate sitting at the hatch, not doing generators. Luckily i-frames from my deliverance carried me to a pallet and I pointed out the survivor.
How much more do survivors need?
I personally never saw a decent swf using these 2 perks and whenever solos are using these 2 perks against me (while I never run NOED anyway) they all die before even the last gen pops so it didn't matter in the first place.
U know what I mean? I think noed only really punishes solos, swf (like always) counter that ez
I want to make this very clear to everyone: the hatch mechanic and the hatch standoff are two TOTALLY different things.
The hatch MECHANIC is necessary as a means to prevent killers from just getting guaranteed 4k's after killing only 3 survivors, and to prevent games where the last survivor just hides for an eternity. It's there because the game would both be unfair and unfun with just 1 survivor. And contrary to what you killer mains say, it's not a "free" escape. Survivors still have to collectively do 2 gens AND then the last survivor has to find the hatch and jump in without being found by the killer.
The hatch STANDOFF is when both players are just standing on or near the hatch waiting for the other player to act, as the first to act in this situation loses. This is the only problem with the hatch and ultimately what killers (and survivors) hate about the hatch. So while the hatch MECHANIC itself should not be removed or changed, the STANDOFF does need to be addressed. I've made a suggestion in the past that was IMO a very good solution to the problem, as it would more or less leave the hatch mechanic as it is while addressing the standoff directly, such that it actually makes the game MORE interesting to play when hatch comes around. Didn't get much attention though. Maybe someone wants to necro it with praise? (If you don't like the idea that's fine too, just don't necro the thread to bash it, leave it in the grave).
There is no hatch standoff, just stubborn and stupid players. The whole thing can be solved by jumping/attacking. So you die. So you let the last survivor go. So what. I sure don't want to waste time looking at Meg for half an hour.
I usually just hit the survivor if I'm killer, or go do a gen if I'm survivor. I never just stand there and wait like a boob. I did that once as Trapper just to see what a survivor would do, and even though I was blocking the prompt and making it clear I wasn't going to attack she just sat there and looked at me. She had ample opportunity to go clear across the map and do a gen, in fact I was willing to sit there and let her do all the gens to escape through the gate. But she didn't do this. I do this because that's what you are SUPPOSED to do as survivor.
The problem is that the standoff can occur in the first place. If a standoff couldn't even happen then I guarantee you would see a lot less people complaining about the hatch.
I just finished a game where I had to search around the last 3 min to find the last person. 3 gens to do. They let one guy just die on the first hook and then just hide. They didn't touched any gens. Thanks to surveillance I am 100% sure about that and after finding one guy and slugged him. I searched the map for 2 min until the poor man bleed out on the floor and the other one just hide to get the hatch. Both only played for the hatch.
This isn't funny.
Can't there be a mechanic that punishes the survivors when noone is touching a gen for over 2 min?
Tell me in which game, when the whole team fails, one players is rewarded for their braindead? CS? TF2? Battlefield or CoD? Something else?
No. Hatch is a free win for one survivor, and completly denies the well-earned 4k for the killer.
With all respect, if you can't finish 5 gens in 2019, where all gens can be easily finished in 3-4 minutes, then you deserve to get on hook.
Killer should be able to close the hatch, and after 1 minute, if the survivor won't complete one gen (which would reopen the hatch), his aura should be permamently revealed to the killer. End of story.
Which would lead to the very situation the devs try to avoid: survivor hiding for ages, since it's too risky to approach any generator, and with the hatch out of the picture, there's nothing else to do. No thank you. If you're so hellbent on getting your 4K, play Freddy, or use Deerstalker.
Simple.
@thesuicidefox : yeah I understand even the possibility of the hatch standoff is a sign of somewhat poor design, but I can't see a way around it (which doesn't mean there isn't one).
However, what do you think about this: the only thing that I find really stupid is the BP reward for a Hatch escape. If anything, braving the remaining 1-2 generators when you're alone should be rewarded, instead of being lucky and stumbling upon the hatch. That extra 2K BP makes no sense at all. I'd very much like to have it removed.
That's exactly what happen. The survivor don't even attempt to do gens if there are only 2 left. They are pulling straws to see who dies and who gets the hatc
No, stupid. Adrenaline is the survivors NOED. It doubles the amount of hits u take to get down and NOED halves it. Stop complaining about the hatch. Slug for your 4 man or stop thinking your entitled to a 4 man. Honestly.
No. What if you bodyblock them all in the basement. #########.
???????????
So you say Adrenaline is survivors NOED, what is DS and hatch? and do you think really that slugging is the solution? No Mither and Unbreakable is a thing.
For survivors there are other rules than for killer.
Just look what happened to the hatch closing mechanic
Oh that's so funny. If they have unbreakable, they'll waste time healing up after using it and you can find the other guy. No mither, fair enough. Also Whispers is a thing
Adrenaline makes it so you can take an extra hit thanks to the heal and NOED makes it so you instadown which makes it take 1 less hit to down them.
You forgot that they don't actually even have to bleed out because they will just DC to give the hatch to the other guy.
That team also includes YOU therefore the point still stands.
The Team in which there is no "I" failed to finish 5 gens.
There should not be any of this handholding crap.
The only reason the hatch is even there is because salty survivors would find ways to hide and stall the game just to grief rather than trying to finish gens.
As in they block an entire team in without swinging for several mins at a time?
That's reportable, it's hostage taking.
Bigger question, why are they all in the basement at the same time anyway?
Kinky stuff
It's problematic. Against a Doctor the last survivor is not going to complete the final gen to escape which means they are forced to either give up or spend eons going back and forth between trying to do a gen and hiding. No thanks. I'd rather deal with the hatch.
(and yeah I know not every swf group is a death squad, but they exit and they can make your match to a hell ride)
Ingame voice chat. No more external advantages.
Remove all the failed attempts to give solo survivors the same information SWF has.
Oh and add a mute button.
Doctor also doesn't need Deerstalker. He just has to put the Survivors into tier 3 and he'll be receiving their location with the screams and illusions. The illusions are not affected by Calm Spirit, meaning Doc can still easily track the Survivor.
Just kill the slug then? I don't get why killers will slug then camp the slug as if to think all survivors are THAT stupid to make a save. No, survivors will see you camping the slug and know there is no way to save them without both of you dying. Just take the 3k (if you let them bleed out you don't get points for that it's only a 2k) and try to hunt down the last guy. Or leave the slug to go find the last guy so they are more likely to make a save.
It's hilarious how killers pull this BS then act like the victims. You have all the power in the world to just end the game right now. Slug if you want the 4k, but understand when it's not going to work and just take the 3k.
Look at the link I posted above. It solves hatch standoff and makes the hatch mechanic more interesting. Again only necro if you like it, we don't need to resurrect a dead thread just to bash it.
Actually it's not. Adren is a reward for playing well, were NOED is a consolation for losing. Also Adren procs once the instant the last gen pops. NOED is active until the totem is gone. That could be 0 hits or it could be 10. If you have Adren but you're not injured and not in a chase with the killer at end game it is basically a wasted perk slot. NOED on the other hand is only a wasted perk slot if the trial doesn't even get to end game, and even then you still win so it's kind of irrelevant.
Read my post again.
Btw. "Go play Freddy if you want 4k" tells a lot about your experience in this game.
The better survivor players are the ones who do gens, get chased a bit and can hide and lose the killer well. The one likely to escape hatch are those who claim dibs on it on their own accord.
So I'm saying the hatch influences survivors to be afraid of doing anything and knowing there will be a reward of a free escape.
They did have that mechanic when the PTB for the clown was around I believe (When he was the newest killer.) But the idea got tossed around and eventually closed for obvious reasons...Cough The community outrage Cough
The reason the closing of the hatch mechanic was scrapped was due to it not solving the problem of the hatch standoff, survivors having no hope could stealth around maybe touching a gen now and again but in the end the game went on for a stupid length.
It didn't fix the standoff problem where two stubborn people would rather stand there staring at eaxh other, it simply moved it to long hide and seek scenario prolonging the game in a different way.
This went against the hatch by design as it is to help end the game quicker so both sides can move on to another one.
Sorry? You have to admit though, if it wasn't THAT...then it'd be community outrage.