tjt85
tjt85
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This might be a bit of a hot take, but I think BHVR went a little bit too far with the nerfs they gave him after his rework. If you don't know what you're doing (and I don't), Survivors that can loop well can make you feel absolutely ridiculous for even trying to use his saw. He's one of those Killers that can sometimes feel terrible to play if you haven't mastered him yet. There's a very good reason why I devote almost my entire Billy build to dealing with bully squads, because once some Survivor groups figure out you're not very good with the saw, the bully squad tactics often come out to play and they'll try as much as possible to get under your skin.
You have to not care at all about losing or looking like a fool for hundreds, maybe thousands of games and not everyone is up for that. He's still one of my mains though and it always feels great to get a down with a curve. Don't get me at all wrong, he's still very deadly in the right hands. He's just a lot more clunky and difficult to play in the wrong ones. Besides, I don't know how you could buff any Killer to replace the one at the top that never has to play around pallets ever.
P.s. I'll never forgive BHVR for nerfing his turning rate boots. Why does BHVR hate drift king Billy so much?
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3999720#Comment_3999720
im a p100 myers main so that change is another reason im not bothered with the killer role. the change might be ok and i will give it a go but im already not liking the drastic change lol sounds like a whole different killer
It does seem like a big change. Myers was my first main but I only ever played him for gen grab jump scares, so I have a hilariously low kill rate (40%). I definitely wouldn't be the best person to ask what he needs to be stronger, but I really hope you enjoy his rework all the same.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3999701#Comment_3999701
i agree wont keep everyone happy, bhvr have their work cut out for them. personally im only sticking around because dbd has no alternative at the moment. im not keen on the survivor loop gameplay and killer gameplay is turning into a dash fest. everything else has died, tcm, friday 13th ect all dead. as soon as something else comes up that rivals dbd im highly likely to swap to that game (hopefully the halloween game next year)
You just know some poor guy is going to wake up the day after the new patch drops and be wondering what BHVR have done to their boy Myers. I don't know, maybe lots of players will really love the new turbo lunge Myers but I'm not so sure about that…
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@runningguy said:
same can be said if the changes went through, killers wouldnt want to play killer anymore. the past week so many people in game have said they were getting the kills in before they retire that role and switch to survivor or just quit the game due to the changes.
but to be fair the killer role would manage without survivors better than survivors would manage without killer. lets face it with the abandon thing, survivors are just turning to bots the first chance they get anyway so killers are used to going against bots. whats the survivors going to do without a killer?
On the flip side of that, I've mostly retired from Survivor and I don't play the role outside of events and time limited modes anymore (because I still enjoy those for the most part). I've barely played Survivor since the go next prevention was added and I don't plan to come back until anti-slug and anti-tunnel is added to the game in some way.
When BHVR make big changes to the way things have been for a very long time, they're always likely to upset people. For me, that was adding an incredibly harsh go next system, instantly nerfing the only new Survivor item we've had in years and pushing the anti-tunnel and anti-slugging back indefinitely.
Good luck keeping everyone happy BHVR, because it probably won't be possible.
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
Run aura builds yourself, or put on Object of Obsession. Any time your aura is revealed to the killer, their aura is also revealed to you.
Try this build if you want wallhacks on the killer: - I call it the "All-seeing Survivor build"
- Eyes of Belmont - Basically Lethal Pursuer for survivors, where you see the killer's aura for 3 seconds (5 total) everytime a gen is completed, and you get +2 seconds to all form of aura reading (does also work with maps and keys).
- Alert - Get a 5 second aura read on the killer (7 seconds with Eyes of Belmont) whenever they perform a break-action (kicking gens, pallets or breakable doors), along with an audible notification whenever they perform the action.
- Scene Partner (optional, but fun) - Whenever you are within the killer's terror radius, you scream when you are looking at them and gain 5 seconds (7 seconds with Eyes of Belmont) of aura read whenever you trigger it. This effect can re-trigger up to 6 more times at random intervals, where it is possible to get an absurd amount of aura read.
- Wiretap - After completing 40% of a generator's progress, you can "trap" the generator with a Wiretap that permanently reveals the killer's aura whenever they are 14 meters or closer to the affected generator. This effect lasts for 2 minutes, and is best used in conjunction with Blast Mine.
- Fogwise (optional) - Whenever you get a great skill-check when repairing a generator, you can see the killer's aura for 6 seconds (8 with Eyes of Belmont).
I was going to suggest something similar as I've had some success with aura builds in the past. Kindred with Open-Handed and bond is also a good combo, since you get a good read on where the Killer is heading a good distance from the hook and also see Survivors in chase quite far away. I also like Wicked, which gives you warning if the Killer is coming back to hook to tunnel. Even just running Alert or Inner Focus by themselves can be decent info.
This might be a hot take, but I actually think Premonition is a solid early warning perk. It's also the only one worth running that works against Stealth Killers, imo. A mixture of aura/chase perks could be a solid build if you don't want to be a gen rusher (plus Resilience, which is a balance of both chase and gen progression, though high risk to stay injured for value if chase is not your strong point).
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@CrypticGirl said:
Okay, so in all serious, I think most, if not all of us agreed that the anti-tunnel mechanic had issues. I did think that the punishments for tunneling took it one step too far.
But what exactly is the solution? Remove the punishments and keep the basekit buffs for spreading hooks? Then Killers as a whole would be massively buffed, whether they tunnel or not. (And taking out a Survivor quickly would still be a huge buff to them, even with the punishments in place.) And that will put Survivors in an even worse position than they were before.
I believe that's the root of all the "crashing out." The solution could either come years from now, or it'll be so insignificant and easy to play around (like the anti-facecamp mechanic or the AFK crows) that it may as well not exist.
My prediction is that if and when the system does come back, it will only punish hard tunnelling (triple hooking the same Survivor in succession), the Elusive status will be halved in time to something like 15 seconds and all the Killer buffs will be removed because there won't be justification for them anymore. I'd be sad to lose the base-kit mini pop, because then I wouldn't need to burn a perk slot on regression or slowdown on my better Killers and could try for more varied builds. It would've also solved the issue of there being no decent regression available to new Killer players (I know we have Deadlock in the pool of general perks at the moment, but the Hellraiser chapter might return in the not too distant future and then there would be nothing again).
I think the only anti-tunnel system that will pass the PTB will be the one that won't negatively affect the way content creators play too much, because they tend to be the ones who set the tone for discussion and they have the biggest platforms. I'm not saying content creators don't make a lot of good points because they often do, but there's also a heavy dose of politics, emotion, bias and rhetoric in a lot of their talking points to unpick. Others have also made the point that the game is probably too mature in its lifecycle at this point for a lot of players to accept any really big changes (it probably didn't help that they tried adding all of this in one patch, either).
But like you say, finding a happy medium between over tuned and so weak it would be pointless could take quite a long time to figure out.
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@Raccoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3999206#Comment_3999206
He slugged to play around Deliverance.
That was under comp rules with survivor perks being extremely limited on a map that usually results in something between 4k2-4k0 for Blight, who in this instance, is arguably the best comp Blight on Earth. He struggled to get a 2K.
I dunno about the 2nd video - I stopped watching when I saw it wasn't PTB related.
Here's the Reddit thread on that video:
https://www.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/comments/1n98hui/during_hens_ptb_pro_showcase_obii_team_elysium/Oh right. Slugging around Deli seems like a very comp minded thing to do. Not something I would ever do, because I forget this perk even exists when I'm playing Killer since it's fairly uncommon. That's another illustration of how different the game is for players like me compared to these guys. If they were playing under comp rules, why were they playing with a system that can be deactivated in customs for the express purpose of comp play? The system doesn't matter at all to comp. It's not a fair test under normal match circumstances.
I posted the second video because it featured an unknown player (not the "best of the best") using a low tier Killer but still winning against the same Survivor players. This is without tunnelling or slugging at all. Does it prove anything or support the silly points I made? No, but then neither does the first video. That's why it was relevant to include.
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@Raccoon said:
There are literally hundreds of videos and thousands of posts demonstrating, with concrete evidence, why the current iteration was not good.
This wall of evidence was so thick that BHVR made a statement a couple of days into the PTB indicating as much.
Objectively, it should not be going live until these issues which, again, have hundreds of captured examples, are addressed.
The foot stomping and whining from some users is simply wild, particularly when no effort is made to refute the very real evidence that exists.
The system is going to be tweaked and brought back in a better form that presumably addresses its current issues - there is no need to be upset or descend into histrionics.
Do you mean concrete evidence like this?
https://youtu.be/O8WNAwhqA7M?si=bNXF8wuio0JD-g7nSo here we have, a close fought battle between two evenly matched sides (2K for the Wesker). Was a fun watch and the result was what you might expect when there isn't much between two competitors. Anti-tunnel did trigger very near the end of the trial but the Killer still got a 2K. This is how my games go when I face Survivors that are as good (or as bad) as I am.
A Blight that could have picked up a slug and had two on the hook, but for some reason they didn't? Maybe there's a reason why they didn't pick but I'm not smart enough to figure it out.
A Clown that I thought would go all in on tunnelling (because that's what he's very good at) but… didn't? Also refused to kick a pallet that I would have kicked a hundred years ago because me see pallet, me kick pallet. Ending was quite exciting with the last second EGC escape.
And a Dracula that won his game handily, but for some reason they didn't want to play it out to the end. Weird.
I get that at a high level, small margins can make a big difference to the end result of a game. But I can promise you, every single one of these Killers would absolutely demolish every lobby I've ever been in. They could 12 hook most public lobbies if they wanted to. So I'm not sure what this video is meant to prove, because it has absolutely nothing to do with what the game is like for a majority of players. The funny thing is, the system can be fully deactivated for custom games like this!
I don't have time to critique every video. Point being, you can always edit a video to push a narrative. Even if they're not consciously doing it, people who play this game for a living are more likely to push a narrative that benefits their own interests.
Or how about this gem of a video, a regular Legion doing Legion things 12 hooking a team that features some of the same players in this showcase. Spoilers: they end a 201 game escape streak:
https://youtu.be/9_Pn_ockZY4?si=QwbsBxO1zaE9Ku6A&t=955Proof that Legion is in urgent need of a nerf? Maybe Joey's Mixtape is too strong? Yes, I know this map is very Killer sided and they had the buffed Unbound equipped, but still... This game is just not that serious. Most people are playing for fun and tunnelling is not that. I could be totally wrong, but I find it hard to believe it would have been doomsday like many Killers were saying if this update had come to live.
P.s. If the random Legion ever reads this - Respect, you are a hero for all Legion kind <3.
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@littlehoot said:
Well firstly you have to consider that a lot of people did not get to test these changes for themselves, and are unlikely to believe the opinion of others on what is kind of a subjective experience—because some people, according to posts and such, did in fact enjoy the changes.
Second of all, because the changes were incredibly long awaited promised relief for problems that have been frustrating a lot of players for a very long time. It's like…you're incredibly hungry, starving, and someone says 'at this time, you can have your favourite food'. And then that time arrives and they tell you, "well actually you can't have it yet. But at some undetermined point in the future you can!"
You're still pretty goddamn hungry, likely hangry, and now incredibly frustrated because you had something you wanted dangled in front of you and then snatched away at the last possible moment.
That's why people are crashing out. Because the issues that those changes were supposed to resolve—tunnelling and slugging—have been around for such a long time, and are so frustrating and game ruining for a lot of players, that when a solution was promised and then snatched away/delayed, it's really upsetting.
This is not to say I think that the changes should have gone live in their current state, or that BHVR was inherently wrong for making this decision. But when what was supposed to be a huge quality of life boon for survivor players got delayed indefinitely, especially very soon after some killers received questionable buffs (turbo Clown) and the first new survivor item in years was nerfed into oblivion within days of release, understandably, it has created some resentment and ill will towards the whole thing.
Don't forget the anti go next and AFK measures that went through, despite having significant issues and yet they are still in the game unfairly penalising players on ocassion. Were they necessary for the health of the game? Yes, but not in isolation. They were meant to be the "stick" part of the equation, but the "carrot" part has now been indefinitely kicked into the long grass. We could see them in the next PTB for more testing or maybe some time after Skull Merchant gets her rework. Who knows. Point is, we'll be stuck playing out dead loss, unrecoverable games for even longer now the changes have been pushed back.
It shouldn't be a mystery to anyone why Survivor players might be a little bit sour about the recent direction of the game.
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I don't think so, no. Mainly because the balance of DBD seems to break down at the very high levels of the game. You only need to look at the comp scene to see how the game is clearly not designed to be competitive from the ground up. Survivors are on comms, only a handful of Killers appear to be viable, a ton of perks are totally banned or resticted by the rules and tunnelling someone out seems to be the main go to strategy. No disrespect to the comp scene, but the way they play DBD would be as dull as dishwater to almost the entire player base. If the game has to be changed to such a degree with external rule sets and communication tools not provided in game, then I can't see how anyone could think it was ever designed with serious competition in mind.
As others have also pointed out, there are no real ranks or leaderboards. Nothing to grind for to definitively prove that you made it to become a top ranked player. I'd also say that with fairly loose match-making and lots of RNG, a loss is just as likely as a win sometimes. The outcome of a trial hardly ever matters.
Sure, you can play DBD with a competitive mindset if you want to, but that's true for Monopoly or tiddlywinks or any other game usually played by most people for fun.
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@BbQz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3998974#Comment_3998974
It's my biggest issue with the pulling of the anti tunnel/slugging system 85% of the player base would have loved it. But the forums and streamers exist in that 15% they are driving the game to the ground. Remember when they tightened MMR Queing to make matches more fair? But they reverted it because people with extremely high MMR had long que times aka streamers. So when your getting matched up vs unwinnable games know you exist to be played with by people of High MMR who don't belong in your bracket.
Ironically the game would do much better with out these 2000 hour vatrans
I felt like most players would have liked the new systems, too. Yes, they were a little over tuned, but not so much that they would have "killed the game" or made the Killer role unplayable. It didn't prevent tunnelling or slugging completely and you always had the option to eat whatever penalties the game might give you and carry on playing the game however you wanted to. It just added some risk to attempting these strategies and made it so the trial wasn't an instant loss to the Survivors.
People will still play however they like. Are we pretending that Tombstone Myers waiting for you to unhook yourself and basement Bubba give a hoot about the AFC? It barely affects them. But it does discourage or add a little extra risk to face camping hooks and I felt like anti-slug / anti-tunnel was trying to do something similar.
Tunnelling and getting slugged is not fun for most players and the new systems might have made some Killers think twice about doing it. It's not as complicated as lots of people were making it out to be.
Besides, most of the streamers who were very vocally opposed to the system have kill rates that are 70%-80% +. They could stand to lose a few more of their games, imo.
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@Leon_van_Straken said:
So you are telling me that these people who go down to M1 Killers in 10 seconds from full life to dying state are the middle ground of the survivor Playerbase?
I mean how can it be that 80% of survivors in 2v8 can´t shift W or predrop a pallet to longer the chase?
It's not just the Survivors. I had a Legion teammate who got about 5 cages in the entire game and I saw them whiffing and struggling in chase on multiple occasions. Luckily, most of the Survivors were not super experienced or gen focused and I was playing as Billy, so I could send enough Survivors to cages for us to eventually get the win. Aside from one or two Survivors, I felt like the lobby was probably more at the Legion's level than my own. It was still a fun game, anyway. But yeah, MMR in 2V8 is wild. Me and a Carlos ran a Blight for almost an entire trial (I'd loop The Blight and anytime I got downed, Carlos would be there to get the flashy save). Obviously all the extra pallets on the map helped, but I would never be able to do anything like that in 1V4.
I kinda like the way 2V8 has no MMR, because it gives you a window into just how variable the skill level really is across the entire game. It's really eye opening. Much of the discussion on the forums is often around what the game is like at the higher levels, but veteran players would do well to remember that BHVR have to balance their game for the extremely casual DBD players as well.
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I'm not past step 5 on any of my milestones yet. I think I managed to complete every single one except the escape milestone last time, but I'll be surprised if I complete even one for this rift. Definitely won't complete the Survivor ones when I go back on hiatus from the role when 2V8 is finished.
I'm not too bothered as long as I can still complete the free track of the rift. And I should with the remaining weekly challenges left (think I have about 10 levels to go). But surely we can reach a happy medium between the first rift milestones and this one? Are these milestones only for the players that play nothing else but this game?
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3998592#Comment_3998592
I disagree - but it’s irrelevant. I don’t have slow internet I usually play on console but have it on pc too. Download the PTB takes 5 minutes.
Happy to hear you've got fast Internet. I don't.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3998481#Comment_3998481
I wouldn’t say “Tiny” there’s A LOT of ppl that play on PC. This game started on PC after all.
Steam doesn't even include all PC players. There's also Windows and Epic.
Besides that, not everyone on Steam is going to download the PTB to test it. I have the game on Steam and I've never downloaded the PTB because it would take half a day with my internet speed to download. I usually just watch streamers play to see what the new stuff is like.
I'm willing to bet only a very, very small number of Steam players actually participate in PTBs. So yeah, it is tiny propotion of the overall player base.
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@littlehoot said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3998451#Comment_3998451
There is a bias because the experience of the game, the control scheme, accessibility, mechanics, is fundamentally different on console compared to PC. I cannot tell you how often I die not of my own failings but because the controls incorrectly prioritise the wrong thing because 90% of the actions in the game use the same goddamn button.
There is a bias, it's just not the bias you think it is.
Also where exactly are you pulling this 90% from? Genuine question, I'm unaware of how the PTB feedback process works.
The PTB is acting more like a gatekeeper than a testing platform at the moment. It's a tiny self selected group of players dictating the direction of the game and I feel like we need to acknowledge that participants of the PTB are not at all representative of the player base as a whole.
I hope BHVR bring these changes to a future iteration of Chaos Shuffle. It would be a low risk way for all of us to test the new systems, we could then give our feedback on them and BHVR would have an opportunity to gather better data.
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Delaying is fine, but I'd just like some consistency from the devs. I feel like terrible changes frequently get pushed to live when they negatively affect Survivors, but there's a lot more caution when it comes to the Killer side of the game. It often feels like Survivors have to just eat it up for a couple of patches before BHVR can iron things out. Lots of players were acting like the new anti-tunnel system is nothing but straight nerfs to Killer but that's not true at all. I don't believe adding these systems in their current state would have "killed the game" as some were arguing. That's just ridiculous hyperbole.
All the while, Survivors are still getting grade penalties if they're tunnelled out way too quickly. Is this really the go next prevention system working as intended? Why is this system still in the game in the state that it is? Please BHVR, just be more consistent.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997455#Comment_3997455
I think it averages around the center. High MMR will always have to be played differently and the lowest MMR is still getting the hang of things. The majority that hover around the center have to be prioritized in my opinion.
I feel this way too. It's way easier to do things to help lower MMR Survivors and Killers to become at least average at the game. I can think of ways BHVR could help my teams out, but for whatever reason they're just no doing any of them (as well as now putting anti-tunnel and anti-slug on the back burner).
But I'm never, ever going to reach the tippy top of high MMR, no matter how long I play for. So why would BHVR balance the game for the very best if most players will never, ever get there? The top guys will take care of themselves and will always find ways to adapt, no matter what BHVR do. That's why they're up there, after all.
BHVR knew the systems were over tuned for high level play, that's why they can be turned off in custom matches.
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I wasn't around for the finisher mori PTB, but those changes sound 10x worse than anything that's in the 9.2.0 PTB. It's a change that would have ended the game on the spot for the Survivors versus a change that would have given Killers a slap on the wrist, but they could still carry on playing and maybe even win. Most Killers I watched who fell foul of the system were still able to win most of their games. Yes, the new systems do have their problems, but they are not nearly as bad as the finisher mori.
Lots of players also pointed out issues with the go next system and with the idle crows but that patch still got pushed to live. It's just maths at this point. BHVR can afford to annoy the majority of its player base (Survivors), but it cannot afford to annoy the minority (Killers) without badly affecting the queue times. (I know that most of us here play at least a little bit of both roles and some of us are more 50/50. I'm just guessing there is more like an 80/20 split towards playing Survivor for the most part, because they can always play with friends).
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I'm not tempted to come back to playing regular Survivor after this. Not since BHVR made Killers angry for absolutely no reason. I just know there's going to be a ton of people bent out of shape by what was in the PTB now looking to take out their frustrations on the live servers, because that's what usually happens whenever BHVR even talk about nerfing an unpopular Killer playstyle. It's gonna be back to back tunnelling.
@rvzrvzrvz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997372#Comment_3997372
Dude anti slug is already done it's fine on PTB, and elusive effect is very straightforward it helps unhooked a bit so you're less reliant on perks, not forced to bring DS/OTR every match.
If the 6 hook states and gen block was the problem why nuke the whole update tell me ?
I thought so too. I get that certain things needed fine tuning or a rethink, but there were lots of measures that were not so controversial that could have easily gone through. Though I still think the systems as they are might have been fine for where most of the playbase probably is in terms of their skill (with most of the negative discourse being about the need to tunnel with impunity in "high MMR" trials to secure wins). But now we don't have even a crumb of a sliver of a shred of a bean of the anti-tunnel and anti-slug that was promised and we won't be getting it for I don't know how long.
Feels highly appropriate they chose this patch to nerf hope, because my hope for this game is in very short supply right now.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997215#Comment_3997215
I'd like to start a full band with One-Two-Three-Four and Bardic Inspirtation but I'm worried fun might be illegal.
Do it! Already cooking up a "make some noise" build of my own:
One-Two-Three-Four + Bardic + Red Herring or Diversion + Blast Mine.
My escape rate's gonna to go through the floor and my teammates will probably hate me, but it will totally be worth it. Hopefully I can get at least one other Survivor to jam out with me.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997183#Comment_3997183
After the The Great Fog Vial War they should have seen it coming. That was so much drama over something so minor.
There was so much in this update I completely forgot about the new characters. I've had to keep reminding myself that they exist. We just had The Walking Dead, which most people thought was handled poorly and needed more work, particualry that god awful map. Before that we had Springtrap. I'm so exhausted with all this new stuff. Please just adjust the game to be more enjoyable.
It's easy to forget all the new content, tbh.
Don't know how strong she will be, but I really like the new Killer's design and Vee is such a cutie. And it's gonna be fun to whip out my tambourine and play it in the face of the angry hornet's nest of tunnelling Killers that BHVR have now whipped up into a frenzy for us. Silver linings and all that…
But yeah, feels like we only just got the Walking Dead yesterday and yet here it is, more content… Phew.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997088#Comment_3997088
Yeah the ptb isn't a fair assessment. Console players have no access, or Epic players. It's so limited. It's also going to be full of people intentionally exploiting it to test its limits, which doesn't give a great idea of how average, casaul, or non-streamer players will interact with the changes.
With each day of more and more screaming, I saw it coming more and more. Especially when I see posts like "look what happened to this content creator." Then you know something is doomed.
I agree, they need to get it right. I'd said in another post that they should have done this separately from the new killer/survivor release. This was an absolute overload of additions.
I think that's become everyone's (well, everyone reasonable) concern--that killers will get to keep everything and survivor, the already struggling role, will get little to nothing.
Oh yeah, it was absolutely crazy to think they could reasonably act on all the feedback from this absolute chungus sized beast of a PTB. It was always looking like a very ambitious update to me, so I'm not at all surprised the more controversial changes have been pushed back to a later release.
The anti-tunnel / anti-slug updates were obviously going to trigger a massive backlash and I get the impression BHVR might have been surprised by the strength of feeling and push back they're received. You wouldn't pack so much into one update unless you're not expecting such resistance. Honestly don't know what they were thinking.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3996963#Comment_3996963
I think we'll get something, but neutered to the point of borderline uselessness.
I understand the caution and potential risk to their bottom line if they don't get this right. I get it, these changes rock the boat. They're not conservative. But I hope BHVR can hold their nerve and give Survivors something substantial at the end of all this. It's honestly frustrating to see the community not even willing to give these changes a real shot on the live servers. I was looking forward to seeing what impact the full fat versions of the new systems would have on just playing the game the way I usually do but nah, it's too much to ask for the wider community to get a chance to test things out. *Insert popular DBD content creator here*, reddit, twitter, the steam community forum etc said it was all bad, so I guess it must be. But what if players outside this weird little bubble of obsessive DBD superfans might actually like the changes if they ever came to the live servers? Now we'll never know.
Imagine if the Killer buffs go through in full but we get a watered down anti-tunnel system that's barely much better than base-kit BT… That would be the nightmare scenario for me. Or it would be if I still played much Survivor.
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@supersonic853 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3996643#Comment_3996643
From the amount of things ive seen covering this from reddit threads to videos to posts on here. Not a high chance a majority of it is gonna go through. Personally my problem is the 6 hook thing and the hook blocker. Killer can still proxy camp if they really wanna win making the blocker pointless. And it kinda incentivizes you to heal under hook which we all have learned has never been the play. And the 6 hook thing the amount of times I see people trigger it on accident by literally hooking 2 survivors between the 3 on the first survivor. And the fact that doesnt even make sense from a tunneling standpoint because if you are hooking 2 other people between how are you tunneling by nature? The killer incentives and the very long protection is fine though. I have no quarrels from them or the hooking the same survivor twice in a row so they die penalty. Hopefully they do this in a way that works for most people.
I do think the punishments are maybe a little too easy to trigger during normal game play at the moment. My worry is that the PTB is really just the first step in testing such a huge change to the game like this. It ideally needs to be tested on the wider community so that people can get a feel for what it's actually like in a real trial and not just by reading about it or watching their favourite content creators. But I feel like most of the suggestions are going to be shot down before 95% of us get the chance to see the systems in action for ourselves and I think that would be a shame.
The whole idea that the Killer should be able to tunnel out the baby Dweet without consequence never really sat well with the concept of a "power role" for me. I mean, I do it too sometimes when I feel the need to start making sacrifices. Why wouldn't you make things easier for yourself if given the opportunity? Sometimes you just need somebody out of the game because you want to secure the win. But this isn't necessarily good or fun video game design for both parties. The Killer should always feel like a threat, but why can't we do this without relying on weak links in the Survivor team to be easy targets? Easier said than done, of course.
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I feel like you could tunnel at 5 gens even with the penalties in place and still win a majority of your games. I'm not able to test the PTB and I don't know if any content creators have tested this theory out (I hope so, since this is what the PTB is for). Maybe they would conclude that because there's no MMR on the PTB and the Survivors were "bad" or not the usual super SWF bogeyman that they typically get in all their public trials, that it wouldn't prove anything. I have seen some prominent streamers struggle to win with the new systems in place against Survivors from their community, but this is not really a fair test either, because they're not going to pick average Survivors to demo/create new content with.
I personally think the only way to really test the new systems to destruction is if they actually go to the live servers and I can't see that happening with the overwhelmingly negative feedback they've received so far. The backlash would be huge and not worth the damage it might do to the game.
On paper, a 25% boost in repair speed and no ability for the Killer to regress gens sounds really strong, but it's not a magic bullet for the Survivor team that's now a man down. Could an average Survivor team win with the odds so clearly stacked against them if the Killer is able to keep the pressure on? I'm not so sure. But I do think that the new systems will make games like this feel more worthwhile to play through for the Survivor side, since they have a chance to win, however small that chance might be.
With respect to Almo, I've played enough "samey" early 3V1s as Survivor to not want to play any more of them. They all end the same way. So what's the point of playing out a 3V1 at 4 or 5 gens in the current state of the game? An no, it's not hatch, because Killers often prevent that from spawning.
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Yeah, I wouldn't be getting too excited if I were you…
I was excited for the Fog Vials but I definitely won't be making that mistake again in a hurry!
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@Whitey said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3996009#Comment_3996009
Have you not seen the last few batches of PTB? PTB has nothing to do with actual testing, it's a glorified preview where little to no feedback is accounted for unless the biggest streamers threaten to pull the plug. Now even they're just outright ignored for anything killer related.
I mean yeah, we still got Kenneth doing his best Usain Bolt impression even though many people said it was silly.
But then Killer feedback got Fog Vials nerfed into irrelevance within two weeks of them hitting live and the reaction to those was quaint by comparison to that of the anti-tunnel and anti-slugging changes. There's no way the more extreme measures are going to make it to live. No way. Many of the biggest streamers don't approve of the changes either. I'll honestly be blown away if much of what's in the PTB isn't substantially watered down.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3995904#Comment_3995904
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/CIIDDABNAQPP/screenshot-2025-09-04-151824.png
What else am I supposed to take from this comment and their general attitude? Is this not a complete denial of a possible cause? Later on, they double-down and reiterate that they know that camping and tunneling has very little to do with ragequitting, which is a bold statement, imo.
It is either that they are claiming to know the root cause, which is very arrogant and that's coming from me, OR they have conflated their own personal experience with the game at large.
Not the same people, but the same type of people. People don't like seeing their role taken down a notch, I get it. It's basically human nature, we don't like the things we enjoy being negatively impacted. However, there's a difference between saying, "Hey, I know these changes need to happen, or will happen, but here's how we can make them better." Or, "Hey, this is what needs to happen immediately after these changes go live" or "Hey, these changes come from a good place, trying to improve the player experience, here's how we can do that better."
Instead, we see, "Killer isn't allowed to kill" which plays into the idea that the Devs dislike Killer or are otherwise biased against them, which is something particular users have been trying to push, along with a denial of KR stats, for quite some time.
If I can show one of the new players here that they are incorrect, then it is worth it. The point I was making with the comparisons is that it wouldn't matter if these changes were objectively good, there are things to work on, for sure. However, even changes that were objectively good, like swivel hooks, were met with the same derision simply because BHVR touched the role these players liked. Basically, it wouldn't matter how well BHVR made this patch, it would've been met with the same level of vehement resistance.
BHVR modus operandi has been to fix issues with perks for…well, literally the entire games lifespan. This is a large shift, where we see them attempting to address multiple issues with game mechanics rather than paid DLC. Slugging an issue? Boom, Unbreakable. Tunneling? DS. Camping? BT. Gens go too quickly in the early game? Corrupt. Gens pop sequentially? Deadlock.
The attempt to address this using game mechanics over perks is a good change from BHVR's part. There are issues, there will always be issues when BHVR doesn't really understand the game (Myers), but a shift in design philosophy away from band-aid fixes is a net positive.
That last point is something I totally agree with. It's not all doom and gloom for Killers, either. Like, how long have players wanted base-kit gen regression that's way better than just dry kicking a gen? This change alone has already buffed my Billy because I hardly ever use any gen regression on him. I'm already thinking of what perks I could use instead of regression on some of my Killers. It might actually lead to more perk variety on both sides, if players don't feel the need to run so much regression and anti-tunnel.
Besides that, players are acting like BHVR are just going to dust their hands off and say to themselves, "that's it guys, we've solved DBD's game balance problems forever. Time to down tools everyone, we'll get that labour of love award this year for sure!"
Obviously they're going to make adjustments if kill rates start to dip below 60%. Like you say, maybe Killers could even get a mini corrupt that lasts until the first chase begins to stop Survivors getting on the first gen they spawn next to or maybe it could be something else. The point is, it opens up a new way to address some long standing issues and that's got to be a good thing, surely?
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@drag27 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3995785#Comment_3995785
except your fun is not the Killer's job. you're responsible for your own fun. there are anti-tunnel/slug perks, use them, otherwise if you refuse and get tunneled or slugged thats your own fault. Also the killer cant tunnel or slug you if you never go down
You are right, I am responsible for my own fun in the sense that I don't have to play a game that I don't find enjoyable anymore. Which is why I hardly play Survivor outside of limited time game modes and rift quests. Though if most of this update goes through, I will probably be tempted back into playing the role.
The average player probably plays maybe 5 trials in a play session. For me, it was getting to the point were at least 2 of those trials were dead lost because the Killer tunnelled someone out, making the rest of the trial just miserable play through to the end. Hatch may as well not be in the game anymore for how often Killers slug for the 4K. So for me, the role stopped being fun to play.
This patch isn't perfect. Some changes I think are maybe too strict (the 6 hook rule and double hooking a death hook Survivor being penalised with only 1 gen remaining) and I'm not 100% onboard with the base-kit BBQ. I like using my game sense to figure out where Survivors might be and it's also a direct nerf to my sneakier Survivor playstyle of evading the Killer for as long as I can. But it's clear to me that the aim is for there to be a more consistent flow of action across a the whole of the trial and to get all players involved in it fairly equally. People can argue this is oversimplifying the main game to 2V8 levels and removing player agency and I agree with this point to a degree. But this is all part of a logical progression towards a more chase orientated game play loop and the recent changes make more sense when you take this as a starting point. Killers are rewarded for spreading pressure and chasing/hooking multiple Survivors and Survivors are easier to find and expected to take chase more often.
Besides, I don't remember too many Killers arguing that the Distortion nerf was Killing Survivor agency and reducing their options for Survival but I do remember lots of Killers arguing very strongly for an immediate nerf to Fog Vials (which would have opened up more viable possibilities for Survival). We can't have a game where there is a variety of strategies available to one side but not for the other. It's "rules for thee and not for me" thinking and wouldn't be fair. I like variety yet DBD is being streamlined towards a very specific chase focused playstyle for both sides. I'm not totally in favour of this but it is what it is. It seems to be what the player base says it wants.
@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3995507#Comment_3995507
The whole 1v1v1v1v1 should be abandoned - I entirely agree. The survivors should all win, tie, or lose together. Plus it allows survivors to have a higher win rate without affecting killer win rates too much. Im also tired of having to explain to people that it's not currently a team game and that each survivor gets their own win condition and ties are literally impossible. If survivors were a team, then we could balance with ties in mind. I forget the math off the top of my head, but it could be balanced where both teams on average would win in the 40s percentile with a 30s percentile chance to tie (again, I forget the actual numbers, but I can grab them if needed). That means we could have it where teams flat out losing is the minority of outcomes where they otherwise more commonly tie or win.
@Scarlett1111 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3995836#Comment_3995836
That's one of the things I never understood about this game. If survivors are a "team" why are they not treated as one? When there are 2 people left the unironic correct play is to sacrifice someone for the other to try to find hatch, that doesn't sound like "teamwork" to me. If it wasn't a reportable offense for griefing sandbagging other survivors would be a correct play in almost all scenarios as well. I can understand that its a "horror" aspect. But it is completely counter productive for this being a long term game people are suppose to play.
I would hazard a guess that the planned MMR changes will be more focused on rewarding team play. I kinda like the option to be a bit selfish if things go south and to play for hatch and a "win", even if the team loses. But most Survivors probably want teammates that play for the team and not just for themselves, so I think changes are coming soon to MMR to reflect that.
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Yeah. It's a shame the chapter has been overshadowed by all the controversy around the new anti-tunnel and anti-slug systems because I love the concept of the new Killer.
I can't speak much on balance or whether she's currently too strong or too weak, but from a design perspective this chapter is a huge W. The new Survivor is very likeable as well with some nice day 1 cosmetics. She's certain to be as popular as Sable and Feng, imo.
I feel like BHVR do a lot of their best work when designing original chapters and this one is no exception.
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The numbers are a lot more generous than I was expecting, tbh (on both sides).
I'm certainly not going to complain about getting Killer buffs for playing the way I more or less already play. A lot of the complaints have been around how "abuseable" these systems might be at the very top levels of the game. I feel like a lot of players have an expectation that BHVR is going to balance the game for the tiny 5% of players that eat, sleep and breathe DBD 24/7 and I'm sorry, but that's never going to happen. The vast majority of the DBD player base is casual.
On a side note, if the changes don't go through for the main mode, I think it would be great if they were added in their entirety to Chaos Shuffle to promote a more casual experience. The 20% gen regression would be especially welcome in a mode that doesn't guarantee you any gen defense perks and the anti-tunnel / anti-slug systems would allow Survivors to mitigate these unpopular strategies to a degree (these strats can be common in Chaos Shuffle, especially in the absence of any gen defense).
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Damn, if it's true that Vanity mirror is gone, that's pretty sad. It had a bit more utility than Scratched Mirror on maps that weren't the indoor ones. Being stuck in Tier 1 for the entire game on a big open map was torture.
I guess it doesn't work well with his reworked power now. I think they've taken a big risk reworking Myers like this (perhaps even an unnecessary one). He was weak but he still had a lot of fans who enjoyed playing as him. It's not like Freddy, when there were very few people that enjoyed the way that he was before his most recent rework.
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The play while you wait feature has been a huge improvement. I've really enjoyed being able to play a bit of Survivor while queuing up for Killer, but it sadly hasn't done much to improve overall Killer queue times. Survivor has also grown a bit stale over time, with the same old recycled classes.
I also think this iteration is more Killer sided than previous releases. My escape rate is closer to what I experience in 1V4 (although we don't have official stats, I've only been playing 2V8 since it came back and in the last 8 trials, I tend to escape about 3 times on average). I personally think this is a bad direction for the mode and that 2V8 should favour Survivors slightly more than it currently does. I know the old Guide class and the yellow herbs garnered a lot of criticism as overpowered Survivor mechanics, but there needs to be more added to the mode to attract Survivor players.
The appeal of going up against a Blight/Nurse or Oni/Legion KWF on comms is always going to be limited to say the least. It can sometimes feel sweatier than 1V4, which sort of the defeats the point of playing the mode for me. I also really, really hate the shadow class.
Legion was also nerfed to the point that you don't get the same sense of speed and adrenaline rush from hitting 8 Survivors, which is another negative (though probably a positive improvement for most Survivors). They play more like 1V4 now and that's much less fun. Legion are kinda boring compared to what they were.
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Isn't Trapper on the road map for a potential rework some time down the line? I'm pretty sure BHVR are at least aware that his kit is pretty outdated at this point.
To be honest, Trapper is the only Killer I'll relax my rules when it comes to popping a freshly unhooked Survivor back on the hook. If they step in one of my traps they are fair game to me (and if I can kill them with the next hook, then even better). So I'd be inclined to just eat whatever penalty the system wants to give me, because you've got to take what you can get when playing as Trapper. Just getting a 1K can feel like an achievement in some trials.
I'm a relatively casual Killer that doesn't bother to count hooks, so I'm likely to fall foul of this system at least occasionally. But until we know what the numbers are, we don't know how impactful much of all of this is going to be.
Will the compensatory Survivor buffs be enough to offset losing 25% efficiency in repairing/unhooking/wasting the Killer's time/healing/opening gates for the rest of the trial? Somehow I doubt they will be and so tunnelling will remain somewhat effective. But at the very least, tunnelling as an intentional strategy will soon come with some potentially significant downsides and I think that's a good direction for the game.
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At times like this, I am reminded that I'm 40 years old…
I have no idea what an "aura farmer" is and I refuse to look it up. So without fully understanding the question, I'm going to say Ace and Wesker because they both wear those cool dude sunglasses 😎
https://youtu.be/JalVHgKqBXs?feature=shared -
That's pretty unlucky. I've had a Legion + Oni combo only once before and it was very clearly a KWF. Maybe it's a regional thing, but Legion isn't any more popular than the other Killers. They've been in only 2 of my last 8 2V8 trials (both 8E, btw). I've had Huntress and Wesker more often in my trials (3 times each). I've never been matched with an Oni as Legion in my Killer games.
It's an annoying combo for sure, but what can be done? BHVR could ban the combo and I wouldn't be opposed to that, but "You can't stop people playing with their friends" as is often said when SWFs queue together and synergise builds to stack the odds in their favour… This is just the shoe being on the other foot.
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The devs have been steadily reducing the effectiveness of Survivor stealth with the distortion nerf and the addition / buffing of aura perks. Survivors have already been forced into a more chase orientated play style, more "engagement" with the Killer whether you enjoy being chased or not. The mini BBQ aura reading is more evidence of this direction of travel.
DBD is more cat and mouse than hide and seek these days. I'm open minded about about the changes, but I can't say I'm totally crazy about the aura reading bonus, because it hurts Survivor that prefer to evade the Killer rather than to loop and win chases. But if it means an end to tunnelling as a cheap way to force a win, then I can probably live with it. With a sigh, I will equip Windows of Opportunity and play the Scooby Doo simulator like a good little Survivor.
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The slugging and tunnelling reduction updates are way more radical and comprehensive than I was ever expecting them to be. Got to give BHVR credit here for pushing the boat out. Broadly speaking they seem like positive changes to me, but the devil will be in the detail.
As the changes are so big and fundamental, I think the community will need more time (the PTB and maybe a few patches) to be able to give feedback and let BHVR collect enough data to get to the point where most players will be happy with the changes. I just hope we can be patient enough to see how it goes. I worry that noisier parts of the community will immediately demand the new systems be abandoned or watered down before most of us even have the opportunity to test them out properly (like a repeat of the Fog Vial launch).
As for the Myers changes, I'm not so sure that I'll like them. It's a big change to his power and that makes me kinda nervous. Personally, I only want small adjustments to his power. Though I'm glad to see they are reworking an add-on for those of us who want to continue playing OG Myers if that's what we prefer.
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My own recent personal stats say that no, Killer is not harder (at least not for me). I have an average Kill rate of 58.68%, which of course includes Killers that I enjoy playing but I am not very good at.
That said, I think if I were to dip my toe into 1V4 Killer right now I would most likely get wrecked by my opponents. Probably because most of the Survivors I typically face are all playing 2V8 right now (where I'm also winning most of my Killer games). I often find that whenever a more casual game mode comes along to split the queues, the MMR system completely breaks down and this sometimes results in harder games for both Killer and Survivor. And with experience, I've learned the times that it's best not to play at all if I'm not in the mood for a challenge (e.g. any time past 10 PM is a sweat fest).
I think split queues and playing at unusual hours can make it feel like "X side is harder", when the reality is that the MMR system doesn't have enough players queuing up to function properly. I would never claim to be a high level player of either role, but that shouldn't matter if the MMR system is functioning as it should be. Roughly speaking, over time I should be able to get close to the intended 60/40% success rate for both Killer and Survivor. That's what an MMR system is designed to do, after all. If that's not happening for most players, then BHVR have work to do.
All talk about balancing the game for "high MMR" as suggested in the pixel bush video is for the birds in my opinion, because I don't think it can be done without creating imbalances for the majority of middle and low ranking players. I don't see how there could ever be parity between a SWF on comms and SoloQ or Trapper and Billy or Nintendo Switch and PC. But that's really a discussion way above my pay grade and if you have any ideas, perhaps you should be working for BHVR, because they don't seem able to do it either.
In any case, I don't think there is much to worry about. Killer is in the best spot it's ever been in (at least since I started playing in early 2023).
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Makes a lot of sense, since they both had recent cosmetics added to the shop.
I'd love to see Chucky in the mode since he's one of my mains. Maybe not a popular addition, but at least it would give Survivors a rest from my Legion and all the mending I've been making them do.
I only play Chucky for the memes and because I like the character with no expectations of winning. He's not the Killer he used to be and is pretty weak at present. Could be they'd buff him up to the level of his second iteration for 2V8, which would be great for Killer players but I'm not sure how well that would be received by many Survivors (I'm guessing, not well at all). Clown at the moment is misery to go up against and could rival Legion for all the hate he would get.
It's probably for the best they didn't add them in this round of 2V8.
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As far as Survivor goes, my order of preference probably goes something like:
Chaos Shuffle → Winter/Halloween event → 2V8 → Other events → regular DBD
While I do think 2V8 has steadily felt more Killer sided and stale over time, it's still preferable to playing Survivor in regular 1V4. Standard DBD is dripping with sweat by comparison and I don't touch the mode if I have the option to play something else. I guess I just prefer a more casual DBD experience.
As far as Killer is concerned, 1V4 is still king imo. 2V8 queue times are still absurd and playing Legion isn't the adrenaline rush it used to be since their nerfs. 1V4 also has more Killer variety, so it's hard for 2V8 to compete with that. Things might change as BHVR add more to each iteration, though.
I do understand where you are coming from, but I don't think the 2V8 could carry the game. It's way too simplistic. New perks and Killers to play with are the life blood of the game and the reason why 1V4 has maintained its appeal for so long.
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I think it should only come back every 6 months, tbh. The game just doesn't have the numbers to support 1V4 and 2V8 yet (and honestly, if FNAF wasn't able to grow the base enough then I don't think it ever will). This will also give the devs more time to cook up new Survivor classes and make sure new Killers are bug free when added. Otherwise, I think the mode will get stale. I've already noticed that a lot of the bigger content creators don't play it very often.
That said, I suppose it can come back a little more often with no new content added if there's nothing else going on in the DBD world. We might have a quiet couple of months coming up while BHVR get their house in order.
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I used to feel the same way before they added play while you wait. I felt so bad after one game with a Huntress that I apologised for how badly I'd played after the trial. They said it didn't matter because it's only a game. They were right, it is only a game. Besides, it doesn't feel so bad to be on the losing side of a Killer game now that we can all kill 20 minutes before a trial with a couple of Survivor games.
I honestly couldn't give a hoot if I win or lose in 2V8 and I'm sure most reasonable people feel the same way. It's clearly designed to be a casual, low stakes, very chaotic experience that throws everyone together with a bunch of overpowered mechanics and no match-making at all. If the other Killer wants to take this obviously silly mode at all seriously, I'd say that's their problem and not yours.
I'm not sure about the bot idea, though. It didn't feel great to be paired with Survior bots in earlier 2V8 iterations and I can't see pairing with a Killer bot being any better. But I do get where you are coming from.
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There's just so much clutter in Survivor blood webs now. If I were prone to conspriacy theories, I'd say BHVR have cluttered our bloodwebs to make sure we get less med-kit and toolbox stuff rather than having to keep balancing these items.
Fog Vials are OK if you find one in a chest, but I never want to see them or their add-ons in my Survivor bloodweb. Just not worth the BP. I think vials should be removed and be something that only returns in chests during events and time limited modes.
I never used maps or keys before they were reworked and I still don't use them now. But I did find one or two in 2V8 and I exchanged it with something else at the earliest opportunity because I don't really like the new charge system. I rarely saw anyone use these items before the rework and that still hasn't changed. Kinda feels like they wasted development time on items that players rarely use (and probably upset the few players that actually enjoyed using them to boot).
Never used map offerings on priniciple and I was very glad to see them nerfed. But they should probably be made common rarity now if they must still appear in our bloodwebs.
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@sirlemonhead said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3988029#Comment_3988029
Again, the killer queue times are still extremely long. There are certainly enough killers happy to play 2v8. We complained about Oni and Legion last time - we all 'shouted the loudest' and what changes did Oni get this time? Is Legion showing up less often now after this round's nerfs? No.
People called for Legion nerfs and they got some. Oni could also use some nerfs and yes, a KWF choosing Oni + Legion is very tedious to face. I would suggest they be banned from pairing up if this was in any way a balanced and serious game mode but it's not. So I don't really care if I must go up against a Legion + Oni KWF every so often.
Killer queue times will always be long for 2V8. They were long before BHVR added Legion and they would still be long if they removed them. The Killer experience is so much more fun than the Survivor experience and that's been true for the last few iterations. Two new Killers to play as will almost always be more appealing than the same 4 recycled Survivor classes. What they give Survivors with one hand (SB on demand / blast mine) they take away with the other (herbs / fog crystals / gen boost). Everybody wants to play Killer, even the players who are typically Survivor mains. I've said this so many times but I think BHVR really need to start adding new Survivor classes and soon. Maybe they could even add an anti-Legion class (Made for This or Dark Theory / Resi / Smash Hit).
The trouble is, players like me who would normally never play 2V8 Killer because of the insane wait times have now joined the Killer queue because of play while you wait. It would be interesting to know what proportion of my Survivor teammates are playing while they wait and what effect that's had on the wait times, because it doesn't seem to have made them any shorter.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3988031#Comment_3988031
I'd assume the pallet would only be able to be rebuilt once and then it's gone. It would work like Pentimento in that way.
Is that how the perk currently works when you bring back a party pallet? As soon as I learned the activation requirements for it I kinda lost all interest in the perk, tbh.
I'm honestly not sure but that would be more fair if it was a one and done kind of deal. I often think the extreme things that we sometimes see in some content creator videos are incredibly rare to encounter in typical trials but that's obviously just my subjective experience. They still need to be considered though.
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Imagine a SWF that plays this game 12 hours a day with the ability to rebuild the Killer shack pallet 4 times a trial and you'll understand why we can't have nice things.
But yeah, I do think the requirement should be just the 1 chest / rummage per party pallet activation. It's not worth the perk slot right now.
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Not to worry, I'm sure BHVR will listen to "the community" (in other words, whoever shouts the loudest) and they'll probably be nerfed again in the next iteration.
In my opinion, they're already been nerfed to the point that they're not so different to playing as a 1V4 Legion (which is contrary to the appeal of 2V8 - we all get to play with broken mechanics). I can't see how much further BHVR could realistically nerf this Killer unless the intent is to give them the full Skull Merchant treatment. Some players won't be happy until they're worse than 2V8 Trapper and Slinger and nobody wants to play as them anymore.
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It definitely makes Killer a little harder to play, but I really like the extra spooky foggy vibes of Greenville. I kinda hope this is intentional. Can we keep it, BHVR?
It's too dark to see much of anything on Borgo, for or no fog. I've kinda come to the conclusion that (at least for me) visibility was better when Borgo was all those different shades of red. Be careful what you wish for, I guess…