tjt85
tjt85
About
- Username
- tjt85
- Joined
- Visits
- 7,941
- Last Active
Comments
-
2V8 is dead to me since they were removed but us Legion enjoyers are in the minority, so that's the end of that. And if anyone from BHVR reads this, please don't waste your time trying to find a way to add them back into the mode. I promise you there will always be Survivors that complain about this Killer. You'll only end up removing them again.
2V8 doesn't have much of a future anyway. There are only a few more Killers they could add that Survivors won't hate, so I think the mode will eventually become boring and stale to everyone.
-
I disagree that you can't change behaviour because I know for a fact that the anti 3 gen system changed the way I played Killer. I used to play Legion in a way that was all about defending a territory of gens and never straying too far from it. Back then the maps were bigger and I just accepted that I would have to let certain gens be completed uncontested. My basic strat was to force a 3 gen situation, then deplete the resources in the area to take chases I could win and grind out a victory by repeatedly regressing the gens. I'm sure it was a very dull experience for the Survivors but there was just no other way for me to win some of my trials besides maybe camping and tunnelling (something I was unprepared to do). Since Legion have been buffed and a 3 gen can't be defended indefinitely anymore, I've had to switch to a more chase orientated play style (or just lose). So it's not true that behaviour cannot be changed because it can.
The trouble is, BHVR heard the feedback from the last PTB to be that we as a collective player base don't want things to change too much. We communicated to the devs that we want the game to stay more or less the same as it currently is - hence an anti tunnel system that neither prevents nor encourages Killers not to tunnel and an anti slugging system that won't kick in unless the Killer slugs the entire team or loses track of a slug, by which point the lobby may have abandoned the game anyway. It is what it is, but this is kinda what we asked for.
I'm not optimistic about the future MMR changes, tbh. I bet anything they come up with will be shot down by the community's unofficial spokespeople (content creators) before any of us get to test it, anyway. I think the best MMR system we could hope for in DBD would be one that matches intent with intent - e.g. sweaty players should match with other sweaty players and casuals with other casuals. As to how to construct such as system, I couldn't say.
-
@Rickprado said:
KILLER
Juggernaut (or any other name related to chases)
Basically a M1 class for Wraith, Trapper and Legion
+25% speed on Window Jump, 20% pallet break and 50% reduced pallet stun.
BONEMASTER
After the start of the trial, spawn 2 hexes on the map. While the at least one active hexes are active, gens not being worked on regress at 200% speed.
Two more hexes spawn when 4 gens are done.
One more spawn when 7 gens are done.
You can resurrect any cleansed totem for a 5% heal penalty for every totem ressurected. Survivors can see the aura of the totems in 8m after they've been active for 35s or more.
Whenever a hex totem is broken, you see the aura of every survivor in 24m of that totem.
If there is any normal Hex totem (not resurrected) active when all generators are completed, when a survivor touch the gates switch, the all switches block for 10s give, the killer a loud noise notification and all hexes are destroyed.
SURVIVOR
Hoarder
Spawn 2 extra chest for every hoarder in the match
See the aura of chests in 16m, Unlock chest 50% faster
Can rummage through chest for extra items
Items have one add-on of green rarity at max.
Witch Doctor
You cleanse totem 20% faster and see the aura of totems 8m from you
For every totem you break, gain a stack. For every stack, you cleanse totems 5% faster and see their aura 2m further.
Breaking totems grants you 5% repair speed and 20% heal speed and you recover from the dying state 30% faster for 75s seconds.
After breaking a totem, you can hide into a locker for 10s to heal a health state. This effects deactivates and only activates again when you break another totem.
After you break two totems or cleansed a single hex totem, see the aura of the killers for 15s.
I totally forgot about adding a chest looting class. I'd like one of those too.
-
I want an Enfury class for Killer. Would help basic attack Killers a lot with all those pallets about. Plus, I just like walking into pallets and smashing them to bits with my face. They could also add a Hex: Two Can Play effect. First stun you just get Enduring alone, second stun adds Hex: Two Can Play and a third stun breaks the pallet.
On Survivor, I would have liked a gadget class, but the Guide class has kinda ruined that idea by incorporating Wire Tap / Blast Mine. It would have been those two plus Chemical Trap and Flash Bang.
Or a "meme" class, which has already been suggested as the actor class. But I'd also add ONE-TWO-THREE-FOUR and Bardic Inspiration to Scene Partner and Plot Twist.
A ninja or "evader" class, themed around misdirection and being tricky to track. Something like Lucky Break + Distortion + Diversion + Red Herring.
Maybe a boon class / hex class would be neat to justify all those currently pointless totems dotted about the maps.
-
@KEYKYNTAK said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4025823#Comment_4025823
Don't you think that players who choose Oni take the game too seriously?
After all, their choice is obviously a winning one, and to do it, you don't need any skill, just a LOT of weight and kills. MONSTROUS mobility + one-shot + constant highlighting of survivors' auras makes playing as Oni TOO EASY and unbearable for survivors.
Well, it's not serious, he has a VERY EFFECTIVE ability that is available for most of the match.
I think they probably choose Oni because it's fun to run around the map at mach 3 speeds. I haven't personally played Oni in 2V8, but the first 2V8 Legion will always be my favourite because you could reach insane speeds after the 5th Frenzy hit. I imagine an Oni in power is probably as much fun as that was.
I worry that if BHVR try too hard to "balance" 2V8, we'll eventually end up with a mode that's kinda boring and bland.
-
And so it begins…
Yes, Oni is ridiculous in 2V8 but that's kind of the point of the mode. It's full of ridiculous things.
I don't think he should be removed just like I don't think Legion should have been removed either. People are taking 2V8 way too seriously.
-
I was going to post about this but you beat me to it! Really happy to see BHVR have added more modes to the page to plug those big gaps some of us had in our stats. Here's what I discovered:
2V8
I know this mode has a reputation for being Survivor sided (I thought so too) but that's not really been the case in my experience. It's actually turned out to be the most balanced mode according to BHVR's target ratio of 40/60 percent escapes to kills. My average team Kill Rate is 60.43% and my average escape rate is 41.40%, pretty close to their intended balance goals.
I'm clearly a huge fan of the Scout Class.
I've also been able to compare my Legion's performance against my Billy's and it's confirmed what I've felt all along - That Legion really isn't all that strong in 2V8. If anything, they are a little weak and could arguably use some buffs. Of course, it's possible that I'm actually not very good at playing my main and that Survivor DCs have deflated Legion's kill rate (assuming these trials are discarded from the stats). But even so, Legion is not at all OP. I'd like to know what others who played Legion in 2V8 have found, because my experience suggests the argument that Legion is imbalanced in the mode lacks much credibility (although this is just my subjective experience). It seems to me players wanted Legion gone from 2V8 because they don't like versing Legion. It's really as simple as that.
Legion Vs Billy. Don't forget that Billy could only injure with his chainsaw in the first 2V8 iteration.
Chaos Shuffle
Chaos Shuffle seems to be a more Killer sided mode overall. This makes sense to me, since Killers always have their powers, can choose "sweatier" add-ons if they wish and are free to camp, tunnel and slug without the likelihood of perks such as DS or Unbreakable being in play. I have a 50% kill rate in this mode, which is pretty close to my regular 1V4 stats. Survivors on the other hand often have to make do with perks like these:
Yeah, we're not going on any escape streaks with perks like Deception, Better Together and Ace in the Hole.
Consequently, my Survivor escape rate is only 30.68% in Chaos Shuffle, a little below the 35% that I have in regular 1V4.
Lights Out
Lights Out is overwhelmingly Killer sided, but to be honest it's a pretty terrible experience for both sides. My escape rate is a pitiful 6.67%!
As Killer, I was only able to achieve a 45% Kill rate. But I wasn't playing very seriously, since I mostly spent the mode trying to yoink Survivors off gens from the darkness with Deathslinger's speargun. Turns out that being able to see where you're going is kinda vital for playing DBD. Who would think it? I didn't enjoy or play this mode much and I don't really want to see it return.
I'd like to hear what interesting discoveries everyone else has made from the updated stats page.
-
Already completed what quests I can.
I'm still grumpy that Legion got removed, so that's me taking a break from DBD until the next set of quests open.
-
Nah, I wouldn't be keen on this as a mode. Killer would be OK, but perks are mandatory for my enjoyment of playing Survivor. They're the "power" that you bring into the trial and where most of the fun is (at least for me).
Besides, I'm not good enough at looping to really enjoy it. Might be fun to feel a little bit more jeopardy and fear, but that would get old quickly just like it did for Lights Out.
-
@turksmall236 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4023354#Comment_4023354
I don't think sweats would flock to 2v8 if they made that the casual mode
This is my thinking as well. I think it would be a better idea to introduce a casual play mode instead. 2V8 would be an OK choice for this, but with Kill With Friends and the ultra buffed Killers in 2V8 it can sometimes feel sweatier than regular 1V4. Long queue times are also a big problem.
A better choice might be a fully randomised Chaos Shuffle mode with the changes as proposed in the original 9.0.2 PTB. This would force both sides to play more casually. Killers would find it difficult to tunnel and slug their way to victory (while also getting base-kit mini pop and BBQ) and sweaty Survivor groups wouldn't be able to play as ultra aggressively as the do in 1V4 by stacking tool boxes with gen rush perks or second chance perks with flashlights.
If BHVR could get it right, a casual mode would be unappealing enough to competitive gamers that they'd mostly stay away from it. Regular 1V4 could then stay how it currently is and all the content creators / sweaty players will naturally prefer to play in that mode instead.
-
Damn. I really liked getting Furtive Chase on my Legion in Chaos Shuffle. It was a genuinely good perk on them and I've been hoping to see it pop up in the shrine for some time now. But after this rework, yeah not so much.
-
Maybe it's copium on my part, but the Devs giving Hawkins Lab some attention has got to mean that Stranger Things Part 2 is more likely to be the January chapter now.
-
If you SWF in a group, doesn't that affect the Killers you're likely to get in your games? Could be that if you play at higher MMR than your friend, the system is boosting your buddy up to your level (and vice versa). Generally speaking, I think SWFs are more likely to get experienced Killers trying their hardest because that's the only way you can compete at that level (yes, I know potato SWF groups also exist. I'm generalising here).
You can see this happen in real time with the YouTube Hardcore Survivor series, where you can watch an experienced SWF dunk on beginner/casual Killers for the first 10-20 games, before eventually running up against top tier Killers that are all sweating hard for the win. It's possible that BHVR don't want to count abandoned games as affecting MMR because these are wins or losses that occurred because players are not really playing as intended. Maybe the Killer tried to shortcut their way to victory by ignoring hook states or the Survivors decided to play a half hour game of hide and seek and barely touched the gens. But I don't know what their rationale is because they've never told us. I do think abandoned games should be counting as losses, though.
In any case, I'd be worried about the MMR system boosting players that abandon if I believed the system actually worked even half the time. So long as we have split event queues and queue times prioritised over match quality, we'll keep getting mismatches and one sided stomps no matter what.
-
Does she play on Switch by any chance? I thought I'd lost my access to Pyramid Head, Cheryl and Mikaela on my Switch account because with an update that released along with the Switch 2, the DLC now has to be loaded into the console as a separate virtual game card. It's a really silly update and something I never had to do before, but that's Nintendo for you.
If your wife is not playing on Nintendo Switch, then I don't know how to help. Just thought I would mention because the problem sounds similar to the one I encountered.
-
Given that he's made quite a few appearances in other games, I think speculation is growing that Jason in DBD is an inevitability at this point.
I kinda want a purple and blue retro Nintendo Jason like the one in the F13 game. Depending on how much freedom the license holder grants, we might see some DBD themed skins like a blighted Jason but I think movie skins will be off the table (unless they make some that are "inspired" by the films but different enough to be their own thing).
-
@Firellius said:
I think it's a waste of time.
Making tunnelling a bit harder but not actually discouraging it is not going to resolve the problem, while those who are adamant that tunnelling must not be obstructed in any way are going to be just as irate over this patch as they were over 9.2.0.
Trying to appease the 'tunnelling 5ever' crowd while also trying to stop the game from bleeding survivors who just don't want to deal with tunnelling anymore is just going to end up with a system that does too little to actually address the problem, but no matter how little it does, it will be too much for the other side of the aisle.
At this point, they just need to tell one of the two groups to eat dirt. Either tell the survivors that you're not going to do anything because you fear the backlash, or tell the killers that you're going to be experimenting with anti-tunnel, even if they don't like the idea of a game without tunnelling.
Exactly. The upcoming patch is the absolute bare minimum they could do to address tunnelling/slugging and yet there are still people out there saying these changes will make the Killer role unplayable. I think BHVR often try their best to keep everybody happy but this is one of those occasions where that just isn't gonna be possible.
I think we missed the opportunity to move towards a re-balancing of the game when the changes in the last PTB were shelved. For better or (imo) worse, the game play loop of DBD is set in stone.
-
@FrankTheTank said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4022575#Comment_4022575
This is just my opinion, but when you tell people that certain arguments about why Legion is bad in 2v8 aren’t “good faith arguments”, as the OP did, you’re basically just saying that you’re not going to consider certain points of view because you don’t like them. That kind of attitude is downvote-worthy, IMO.
Also, it’s currently at 4 upvotes and 6 downvotes, not exactly being “mass downvoted”…
@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4022584#Comment_4022584
The basis of the thread is how can Legion be brought back into 2v8 after their removal, with the agreed terms of the discussion being that Legion should not be excluded from the mode. There are plenty of people who voice that Legion should be removed from 2v8 and never brought back, refusing to entertain any discussion to the contrary.
To "argue in good faith" means to engage in a discussion with a genuine desire to understand others' perspectives, find common ground, and use honest logic and evidence, even if you disagree... suffice to say, the perspective Legion should be removed completely and not being willing to offer any compromise is indeed not arguing in good faith, and this thread would easily switch to a discussion about why Legion be just allowed in the mode, isbetad of a discussion of how they could be incorporated.
I don't see anything wrong with pointing out, getting ahead of those common arguments and points, and requesting argumentation that avoids this talking point, as it would otherwise derail and distract from the threads purpose the OP wants to discuss.
And to add some additional context, I do believe downvotes are a blight on these forums, and never use them myself. Down votes discourage discussion , and there are plenty of people don't talk or debate, they just ratio opinions they don't like. Even a complex and multi layered opinion can be broken down to a simple "nah" with this system... and when I posted to this thread the ratio was 6 to 1. 6 to 2 after I added my own vote.
As the saying goes, a person is smart, people are dumb panicky idiots who get swept along with the crowd. The meaning being, you can have a intelligent discussion with a person, but you can't with a mob, and downvotes allow people to be easily mobbed.
I did say why I consider the argument they should be removed to be in bad faith, because there are other Killers that are equally as busted still in the mode (except in their case they happen to be busted from a 1V1 perspective). Yes, it's true that a Wesker/Nurse/Blight can clean up after Legion has injured half the lobby. But if you pair Legion with a Trapper or a Ghostie, their power is not nearly as effective. Saying Legion shouldn't be in 2V8 because other much stronger Killers are present is not a reasonable argument, imo. I think restricting Legion from using their power with a lengthy cool down is not a great way to go, either. A solution has to be found that preserves what Legion enjoyers love about the Killer (running fast and vaulting stuff).
@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4022584#Comment_4022584
The basis of the thread is how can Legion be brought back into 2v8 after their removal, with the agreed terms of the discussion being that Legion should not be excluded from the mode. There are plenty of people who voice that Legion should be removed from 2v8 and never brought back, refusing to entertain any discussion to the contrary.
To "argue in good faith" means to engage in a discussion with a genuine desire to understand others' perspectives, find common ground, and use honest logic and evidence, even if you disagree... suffice to say, the perspective Legion should be removed completely and not being willing to offer any compromise is indeed not arguing in good faith, and this thread would easily switch to a discussion about why Legion be just allowed in the mode, isbetad of a discussion of how they could be incorporated.
I don't see anything wrong with pointing out, getting ahead of those common arguments and points, and requesting argumentation that avoids this talking point, as it would otherwise derail and distract from the threads purpose the OP wants to discuss.
And to add some additional context, I do believe downvotes are a blight on these forums, and never use them myself. Down votes discourage discussion , and there are plenty of people don't talk or debate, they just ratio opinions they don't like. Even a complex and multi layered opinion can be broken down to a simple "nah" with this system... and when I posted to this thread the ratio was 6 to 1. 6 to 2 after I added my own vote.
As the saying goes, a person is smart, people are dumb panicky idiots who get swept along with the crowd. The meaning being, you can have a intelligent discussion with a person, but you can't with a mob, and downvotes allow people to be easily mobbed.
Yeah, I was hoping the thread would not be derailed by people saying they shouldn't be in the mode at all. It's fair if you believe that, but there's no discussion to be had if that's what you believe. Better to just stay out of it. I also consider that argument to essentially boil down to "I don't like this Killer". Perhaps that's unfair of me, but it tends to come from the people who say they dislike Legion in 1V4 as well. The way some go on, you would think they were going up against Tatariu level Legions in every trial but that wasn't at all the case for me. I played against and alongside a lot of terrible Legions that had plenty of counter play (I stunned one Legion out of their power 3 times with the same pallet that I kept rebuilding). These players are presumably queuing up as Legion because they like the Killer and they should have the opportunity to play as their preferred Killer, just the same as anyone else. And if the Legion is good, then why should that matter? That's not a good argument either, since I found 2V8 to be a very rough Survivor experience if the Killers actually knew how to play, regardless of what Killers we were up against.
It's also kind of depressing to see a silly and fundamentally unserious mode like 2V8 get bogged down by the same discussions around balance as 1V4 but here we are, anyway. If I can accept 3 dash Wesker and turbo Oni, as stupid as they are in 2V8, why can't others accept Legion being a decent support role Killer?
@UndeddJester said:
Man literally asks for suggestions/ideas and starts getting mass downvoted... these forums are really starting to suck. Getting real tired of the undercover popularity contests going on around here.
Kudos to the guys above who actually took the time to write an actual response.
In terms of a suggestion, my suggestion for 2v8 Legion is: -
- Give him his 4 hits and 5th hit down as he has in normal mode.
- Remove killer instinct from him, but give him back scratch marks and blood splats.
- Give him Frank's Mix Tape basekit so he can kick gens for auras.
This would mean survivors can actually pay attention and hide from Legion, make it so scoring all 4 hits is something Legion actually earned. It also plays into the natural greater aura abilities of 2v8.
Because now none of their chains are free, you could even look at giving some combination of his add-ons as needed to make him a little better (like in the league of the Nurse, Wesker, Wraith, changes) : -
- Mischief List (1 second longer duration)
- Mural Sketch (0.08-0.32m/s additional speed for each hit)
- Scratched Ruler (5s faster revovery)
- Stab Wounds Study (4s aura after mend cure)
- Fuming Mix Tape gen aura effect (gen auras coloured based on progress)
- Iridescent Pin (Vaulting pallet breaks them)
These are all good suggestions. Thank you for contributing. Hopefully we will get something along these lines when Legion returns.
-
@angel_pellegrino said:
This is because dead by daylight is not the kind of game where the average player is going to be some 5k hour pro who plays the game like they're a comp player. The average (read MOST) newer and casual players are what many people in the fandom would call "bad players." People who don't play the game in the smartest way humanly possible. There's really two main reasons for this: 1. DBD, as opposed to some other online games, it's not as much a serious, die hard comp kind of game, there's no crazy ranked mode. A lot of people play this game for funsies after a hard day at work or whatever. Some people are never going to be serious about this game and play it like its serious. And its fine if some people think of it that way. Everybody is not going to agree on that point. And 2. Most people don't have either the time or the desire to put tons of hours (and money) into understanding each and every facet of this game and getting all of the best dharacters and perks. See point 1.
And that's okay. Just because I want to make the best choices humanly possible doesn't mean the people I play with have invested the same time and energy I have. I feel like a lot of people on here are so caught up in keeping dbd exactly the way it is, that they forget that being able to keep new players is vital to keeping a game like dbd alive. After all, let's be honest here, a lot of the "die hard" players will eventually wander away from the game after a while. Some are already stepping away for a bit. There needs to be a steady influx of players in order to keep dbd alive.
And, unfortunately, that does require a hard look at the game and how it can be adjusted to keep new and casual players happy. And no, simply saying "just get good at the game" is not a reliable anwser. As advice to a new or casual player, it's about as helpful as a pie to the face.
Couldn't agree more, but sadly it's not the casual players that BHVR are listening to right now. It's the ultra competitive types that want DBD to be an e-sport that have the biggest say. I've pretty much given up arguing for the casual / new player experience at this point. Nobody at BHVR is listening. DBD will never grow beyond its hardcore player base because very few new players would be willing to put up with the cheap tactics and strategies that veteran players love so much.
-
I say this as someone that really looks forward to events, this Halloween has been a huge let down.
I really enjoyed the void last year but the design time around has been a big downgrade. But even if it had been better designed, I've come to the conclusion that the void itself is a failed concept. Expecting players to prioritize interaction with the fun event mechanics over winning the game is apparently far too optimistic of the devs. BHVR would be better off sticking all the event stuff on the main map so that players needn't go to any bother to interact with event mechanics. Most players I've encountered just treat the event queue like they're playing an average 1V4 match. At least the anniversary event forced you to interact whether you wanted to or not with the bag of Tryks mechanic.
2V8 is a total washout with Legion being left out this time, so the next thing for me to look forward to will be the Winter event. I think it might be time for a DBD break.
-
I was in favour of the finisher mori when it was first introduced but I have to admit I was very wrong about that. It's always been miserable to be slugged while the Killer chases the last Survivor standing but I definitely see it much more often than I used to before. At that point you are just rubbing it in since you've already won the game. It's saying to the Survivor on the floor that you don't value their time and is not that different to Survivors hanging around the exit gates or standing on the hatch when they could just leave, imo.
Slugging for the 4K is easily one of my least favourite player behaviours, one that I had hoped the quality of life measures would actually address. Oh well, nevermind I guess. BHVR obviously don't see it as a problem.
-
Sadly, I think the "kills = skills" mindset is way too ingrained at this point of the game's lifespan to be challenged. I do think we would have a much healthier game if DBD was balanced around hooks as the "win" condition for Killer players.
You could even say this is well supported by the game's lore and that The Entity prefers Killers to multi hook. Trials where everyone is forced to participate means bigger helpings of Survivor despair and hope for it to feed on. Because in the end there are no winners or losers in the fog, only servants of The Entity. Killers and Survivors that play their roles too well leave The Entity hungry.
That said, I do sometimes get friendly crouches at the exit gates (2 crouches like a Survivor thank you, not the BM of rapid tea bagging) and item offerings as an acknowledgement that had I played differently, I probably would have 4k'd the team. I do think some players are appreciative of Killers that don't take advantage of mechanics like tunnelling off hook.
-
@TragicSolitude said:
I suck with the knives. I suck with all ranged attacks when I play on console, except Nemmie's tentacle (and that's only because of the strafe). Ranged killers just feel like garbage on controller with the low framerate and framedrops and input lag (and no dead zone or response curve settings), survivors can react to me way quicker than I can react to them. I do like Trickster's design, though, and when I play him I play him as an M1 killer and enjoy twirling his bat. I love the bat twirl.
Ditto. It's virtually a guaranteed 4E for the Survivor team whenever I play him. But at least with Huntress and Deathslinger, if I do manage to land my shots it's going to result in an injury. Trickster feels like a lot of effort for not much return. It also feels a bit cheap to mow Survivors down with his main event. There's just no counterplay to it if you get caught out in the open.
I love everything else about the character, so when I do play the odd Trickster game it's to enjoy all the things I do like about him while I suffer through the game play.
-
I'm sorry, but why should anyone be expecting meaningful incentives not to tunnel? BHVR proposed a bunch of those along with the last system and we were all lead to believe that those changes would end up killing the game.
So they've come back to us with a new system that will make very little practical difference to how trials currently play out. It's just a slightly bigger sticking plaster than the one that's currently offered to Survivors. Situation normal, as they say. If you want real incentives not to tunnel, then there needs to be real punishments in place as well. Else you would have a situation where Killers could reap the benefits of both "playing nice" and also tunnelling, depending on what the situation calls for.
The only thing the new system will do is maybe cut down on the opportunistic tunnelling that occurs when a Killer returns to hook to find the unhooked Survivor bleeding all over the place and making very loud injured noises. That's pretty much all it will do. Hard tunnellers won't stray far enough from the hook for any speed boost reward to be a meaningful buff to them, anyway. There's not really anything that you could offer these players that would be better than permanently reducing the Survivor team's effectiveness by 25% for the rest of the trial.
-
@SoGo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020720#Comment_4020720
Yes I want them to delay the unhook notifications.
Better than Object basekit for survivors.
Me too. I thought the delayed unhook notifications was one of the less controversial aspects of the first system but perhaps they got lots of feedback that said otherwise. I guess the idea is to keep back to hook tunnelling on the table for Killers while also giving Survivors early warning that they need to start running to safety or towards a nearby loop. Tbh, I don't think the aura read off hook will survive the PTB without being toned down anyway.
-
I think the aura reading is set to 32 meters because Billy/Blight/Kaneki can be back to the hook in just a few seconds. Would you prefer BHVR hide the unhook notifications again? Because that's the only alternative to this that I can see (though I suppose it could be set at 24m for Killers without mobility / teleportation, but that's probably more effort to code that it's worth).
Why does the anti camp matter at all if the plan is to hard tunnel a Survivor off hook anyway? The safest place for a targeted Survivor to be is on the hook, so I guess the worry is that the Survivor will see a Killer proxy their hook and will wait until the very last moment to unhook with anti camp to waste as much time as possible (so, the same as it is now).
The Killer should really be using this time to patrol nearby gens / pressure Survivors elsewhere, not proxy camping their only hook. If they do decide to go all in on the hard tunnel strategy, Survivors can now better see more of what the Killer's game plan is with the anti camp bar and they will likely just stick to their gens. Tunnelling is strongest when combined with other powerful strategies like proxy camping and slugging to secure second hook states or exchanges. I think the new system makes it a bit fairer and for better flow of the game because it pressures Killers away from the hook and weakens hard tunnelling.
Yes, the incentives not to tunnel are very weak. But they're not there to be rewards any more because there's also no punishment to balance them out. They are more of a passive bonus and not meant to dictate behavour. The last system BHVR proposed was more along those lines and it got shot down completely. Killers can't expect to have their cake and eat it too (to be rewarded for not tunnelling but also have the option to tunnel whenever they want to as well).
-
@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020285#Comment_4020285
It's exactly the same for me. I had to do that 'lose chase after dropping a void crystal' quest this morning, and my hubby stuck his head in the room asking what I kept yelling about. I did not enjoy a single one of those survivor games. I was on edge. Switched to play Freddy afterwards and immediately felt my shoulders relax. I have no one i have to rely on when I play killer, no expectations, it's just me and the game is what I make it. Outside of quests, I just can't play survivor.
If you're still struggling with that quest I'd suggest using Vigil, Lightweight, Ghost Notes and Sprint Burst to get it done. I'm totally addicted to this build because so long as you're not injured and can break line of sight, you can do a disappearing act because your scratch marks will disappear so quickly. It's very effective when paired with the void crystals.
Streamers have done videos on this build so I'm sure it's already on BHVR's chopping block (even though I've never actually seen anyone else using it). I'm going to enjoy it while I still can.
-
I always find it curious how differently people playing the same game can experience it. For me, Killer is the "chill" role. Of course, it wasn't that way when I started playing and encountered my first bully squads, but I have to tools to handle those guys for the most part now. I'm a former Survivor main that has flipped roles fairly recently (I only play Survivor now during events, modifiers and when Nintendo Switch is isolated from the rest of the player base).
Killer can be as chill or as sweaty as you make it, imo. As Killer, I can decide exactly how I want to play most of the time. I can cool it a little if my opponents are struggling or I can kick it up a gear against the sweatier teams. I have more freedom to run the perks I like. I can give hatch if I feel merciful or I can treat myself to a 4K. If I see a lobby giving me SWF vibes with multiple beamers and toolboxes, I can bring Lightborn and Mad Grit to counter. I mostly play for hooks and chases not just for Kills as my personal "win condition" (or landing impressive curves if I'm playing as Billy). Sure, I still get the bags now and again. But most of the time I don't know what my opponents think about the way I play because I keep the chat window closed unless I'm 100% certain everyone had a good time. So many aspects for the "feel" of the trial are in my control when I play Killer.
That's often not the case as Survivor. I'm at the mercy of the whims of the rest of the lobby. There's always a chance that something will happen that will put me in a rotten mood and make me want to switch off the game. Maybe a Survivor will unhook me in the Killer's face for no sensible reason and get me tunnelled out. I might be left to go second by oblivious teammates. Or a teammate might decide to grief me because they saw me get into a locker. Maybe the Killer decides their strategy will be to slug everyone out. Maybe I'll be tunnelled by the Killer because that was always their plan / they have a vendetta against Scene Partner, Head On or because they just don't like Megheads. I don't have a good time, I don't get to progress my quests and my time feels like it's been wasted. It also feels like there is more at stake to winning and losing as Survivor. If I go on a losing streak, my teammates get progressively worse and it becomes harder and harder to dig myself out of SoloQ hell. If you lose as Killer, it's back to mashing potato teams for a bit until you get back to where you were. No big deal.
All this is in spite of my Survivor games being easier than in recent times and Killer being harder (I put this down to pallet density changes and casual players abandoning the game en masse).
-
@Caiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4019359#Comment_4019359
We got that update. We are on the same game version as the other platforms. We should be able to crossplay.
It's a known bug. They're aware of it and trying to fix it soon, but to be honest I enjoy my games a lot more on Switch when we're cut off from everyone else.
The technical gulf between Switch and the other platforms is too great to have good time when being matched with everyone else (though obviously it sucks for players that SWF with other platforms).
-
@Nun_So_Vile said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4019004#Comment_4019004
Same here my friend. So so so same here that I'm still over here facepalming and i'm all out of face to palm at this point bro. The very irony too that it was prefaced with "we're hitting the reset button with the community" mere moments before taking a giant dookie right on a portion of your player base is…truly astounding.
Like, why not just start doing a rotation of killers, that way every time it's up you get a new batch of power synergies, it's random who those handful of killers are gonna be, and we can have some more variety quicker, since it's apparently a problem and taking a long time to put the entire roster in 2v8. That's me just brainstorming for 5 minutes and it's already more reasonable than straight-up removing Legion, and a good change up from the same-ol-same-ol every single time for your player base. But nah, lets just do more work for less options that lead to ultimately stunting this game mode and inhibiting it from ever reaching it's full potential.
Like, BPMain was saying too, we haven't even gotten the whole roster yet. So, what does that mean for the killers with multiple powers that are guaranteed to be good out-of-the-box and how they will be under scrutiny for simply existing, but I guess we might as well now just say here and now they aren't coming because they are too hard to balance and will be too unpopular.
I just feel more for every single player out there who has waited ever so patiently for their main to come to 2v8, waited for THEIR reason to finally jump in, and this move now jeopardizes that and means they may never see their main in 2v8 after waiting a long time.
The cynic in me thinks they only ever added Legion to 2V8 to sell more Hunk skins during the Resident Evil themed event.
I wonder how Konami feel about missing out on potential sales for their Robbie The Rabbit Legion skins now that it's their turn? I can't imagine they're too thrilled.
-
They want back to the hook Killers to be able to tunnel with ease just like they currently do on the live servers. I thought this was one of the better and less contentious changes, but apparently not…
-
@Kerkvlerk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018928#Comment_4018928
Maybe a bit of a hot take, but I’ve mained Legion for a long time and honestly enjoy both playing as him and against him. That said, the fact that 99.9% of 2v8 matches are Legion makes it incredibly tedious and boring after a while. They should really leave Legion out of the next 2v8 or rotate killers to keep things fresh. The last 2v8, I stopped playing entirely after getting Legion/Wesker five games in a row.
Legion was a popular choice but they weren't in every game. I saw a Legion in about half of all my 2V8 trials (4 out of 8, the same number of times as Wesker and Huntress). But the first version of 2v8 really did have a Huntress in every trial and after that I didn't want to see a Huntress again for a very long time, so I do get it. But just because a Killer is popular in a mode, it doesn't mean they should be removed from it. It's not like there's a huge amount of choice, so you're bound to get repeats of the more enjoyable unlicensed Killers to play as.
-
Very disappointed and grumpy about this change. I've got zero reason to play 2V8 now that my main has been removed. Besides, I've only really been playing 2V8 Survivor at this point to kill time while queuing for Killer anyway, so that's me sitting the mode out from now on. Survivor in 2V8 has become stale for a while with the same 4 classes since version 1 and I'm sure as hell not queuing up to play against the buffed up versions of my least favourite Killers (Wesker and Spirit) if there's no Killer game for me to look forward to.
Why did they add Legion in the first place when they knew there would be complaints about them? Surely they know Legion is an unpopular Killer with a lot of Survivors. I felt they had PLENTY of counter play in 2V8 but it's whatever at this point, the decision has been made. It would have been better not to have added them at all instead of first gutting and then removing them, because this move from BHVR has ticked me off and really soured the mode for me.
-
Looks like Legion haters got their wish, because there will be no Legion in the next 2V8.
Unbelievable choice. That's me not playing the next 2V8 then.
-
Sounds like the match-making actually working as intended for a change, tbh. When I used to play Smash Bros online, I would often win 5 -10 matches in a row then lose the next 5-10 for a win rate of about 50%. I think that's how these systems usually work, with players yoyoing between a string of easier matches and then a string of harder matches, which rinse and repeat until you find your "level".
That said, I don't think traditional match-making really works for asyms like DBD. It especially doesn't work for the random pick and mix of SoloQ players. I'd like to be proven wrong, but I have a strong feeling that whatever BHVR are cooking up for their MMR improvements, the games are going to feel exactly the same as they do now - a mishmash of players with different skill levels and intentions all thrown in together because queue times are the priority. I think they would be better off trying to match complementary play styles together (weird build enjoyers with other weird build enjoyers, sweat squads Vs quad slowdown tunnelling Bights, etc). Not really sure how they could achieve that, though.
Or they could just admit MMR will never work and leave the matchmaking up to pure chance (with a protected bracket for very new players that keeps them in their own MMR pool for a set number of games).
-
@tuttoinunavolta said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4017926#Comment_4017926
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018032#Comment_4018032
I never implied we should superbuff all killers, nor do I think it's reasonable to try to have all the killers be as good as Nurse/Blight/Billy/etc. However, the game constantly grows and older elements inevitably get powercrept, so the characters at the two edges of the tier list should, in my opinion, constantly be kept in check. Yes, Legion is simple to pick up and use, he shouldn't be too strong. But he should be viable, and in fact he did get a good amount of buffs not too long ago, keeping him on the same spot in the tier list but making him more manageable for the current pace of the game. I'm not advocating for lower tier characters to suddenly get sprung up to the top of the tier list, I just think the older characters should constantly get little changes (whether it's number changes like Pig, or reworks like Myers) to stay in line with the updated pace of the game. Ghostface's kit specifically is growing overshadowed by this new Myers rework, so I do think they should give him something new to make him more unique. Not even talking about a significant buff or an anti-loop, just something new in addition.
In my opinion Nurse, Blight, Billy and Kaneki should all get some specific nerfs (haven't played against the latest iteration of Krasue enough to give an opinion); Trapper and Ghostface should get some buffs, and Skull Merchant should be fully reworked. Everybody else is more or less fine, they might need a buff or a nerf here and there, some of the clunkier characters need huge QOL changes, but overall I believe the S tiers and C tiers should both be squeezed back closer to the rest. Blight and Nurse should still be the best characters in the game, but they should have some slight nerfs. Similarly, I don't think Trapper and Ghostface should ever rise more than one tier in the hypothetical tier list; but I do think that, right now, their kits feel just too outdated in comparison to the current game pace and other kits.
I guess we have a misunderstanding when it comes to what a "rework" means. Rework to me implies making very big changes more in line with the Freddy or Myers treatment. These Killers are different enough now to how they used to be that it's like learning a totally new Killer. On the other hand, what BHVR did for Legion was to take what they already have and improve the flow of using their power against stronger opposition. Frenzy has more utility now that you can use it for mobility and to shred strong pallets with the iri button, without the punishing penalty of a long fatigue. They feel like fundamentally the same character without really impacting the way they are typically played against less experienced lobbies, where looping skill is poor, there are many more opportunities to go for 5th hit downs and their game delay is very strong because Survivors in low MMR hate to play injured.
I personally liked the changes to Freddy because he was never much fun to play. But old Myers had his admirers and he's changed way too much for me to enjoy these days (he's a special attack and not a basic attack Killer now). I think the current pallet density is a problem for balance at the moment and likely to be reverted on a lot of maps. This will help Ghostie again, but he's always going to be susceptible to fearless high MMR Survivors slamming the gens because he has no mobility. Sure, he could be given some buffs and his reveal mechanic should be improved. But I don't know what can be done about a core issue like poor mobility without some bigger changes to his power. A faster traversal walking speed when not observed by Survivors, maybe?
-
Does he really though? I'm thinking of finally pulling the trigger on unlocking the Ghost Face to scratch that basic stealth killer itch, since I'm not too crazy about what BHVR have done to Myers.
As much as I appreciate the attempts to bring weaker Killers up to the level of the stronger ones, where does that end? There's nothing they could really do to make Ghostie anywhere near as good as Billy/Nurse/Blight without making significant changes. The strength of those Killers is typically justified because they are difficult to master but that'll never be true of Ghost Face. I say this as someone who mains at least a couple of low tier Killers (Legion and Trapper), I think it's OK for there to be weaker, simpler characters on the Killer roster. I imagine most people here are experienced Killers matching with experienced Survivors and that's no doubt influencing views on the viability of certain Killers.
Low tier Killers are no doubt still eating good at low MMR. Not every Killer needs to be a viable choice at "top MMR" (whatever that is) to be worthwhile playing.
-
@Nazzzak said:
Yeah i was doing that quest to attach the crystals to a gen, and twice i left the void without my crystal because I forgot i had to do a second action. First time, I ran back to grab it just in time to see a Leon leaving with my hard earned crystal 😠
Glad I'm not the only person to do this!
I've been playing only Killer in the event and this really tripped me up when I finally decided to play a couple of Survivor games. I've also left the void without my crystal, one that would've come in really useful against a back to the hook tunnelling Huntress. It's honestly so silly that you don't automatically collect the crystal.
-
I appreciate BHVR trying something to make Myers more viable, but since I've played a few games with him now I don't think I'll ever like what they've done, buffs or no buffs. The way he has to manually enter slaughtering strike mode feels so clunky and slow and even with the buffs it feels clumsy and awkward to control. I just can't get used to it. I'm not enjoying his new power at all. I do like that you can move at 4.4 in stalker mode with an add-on but that's about it.
That said, I didn't want Myers changed all that much anyway, so that's bound to negatively affect my opinion of him.
-
@Marc_123 said:
You also have to connect your accounts.
I don´t like that also but they want to generate player retention and get the data i guess.
So they wont´t give these for free.
I am glad i don´t care so much of banners and badges.
The first Twitch drops were a full cosmetic set for Meg. That's how they got me, because I would not have signed up for banners or badges. I miss being able to input a code on my Switch to get the drops.
For anyone who still wants the drops but doesn't care to watch a Twitch streamer for 6 hours, there's nothing stopping anyone from having Twitch playing in another browser tab. Just put a drops enabled DBD streamer on at the lowest video quality setting and collect your drops that way.
-
Short reason: Legion and Meg, because I gotta go fast.
Longer reasons:
I like Legion because their power is simple and easy to use, but they're also surprisingly versatile when it comes to perk builds. Frenzy vaulting is a ton of fun, though I do admit the novelty of vaulting pallets like a Survivor has been diluted since Chucky/Kaneki/Krasue, who can do everything Legion can do and more. In any case, I love the concept of a Killer that could under other circumstances have easily entered the fog as a Survivor.
To me they're the ideal Killer if you just want to turn off your brain and let Killer Instinct tell you where to find the next Survivor to chase. Just a chill Killer to play as really. They have a well deserved reputation for being a "noob stomper", but they're also often underrated by more experienced Survivors and you can still do quite well with them if you make optimal decisions and understand their strengths and weakness. Susie is my main because I like her sense of style the most and her personality is the closest to my own. My other two Killer mains Chucky and Billy share some things in common with Legion (Chucky also has similarities to Survivor gameplay and Billy is another gotta go fast Killer you can play chill if you want to).
On Survivor, I was a Dwight main when I started until I "upgraded" to Meg and I've mostly stuck with her ever since. I guess I'm a creature of habit. I like Meg mostly because I like her voice acting. I don't know how to explain, it just sounds cute to me. Kinda important, since you'll be hearing those sounds all game (it doesn't matter how many nice skins she gets, I could never be a Feng main. I don't know how anyone can stand her injured noises). She also has some decent base game cosmetic options, though for how popular she is, BHVR don't seem to give her much love compared to Yui/Sable/Feng or Kate. I also like that nobody expects much from a Meg. The meme that she's often a terrible teammate takes the pressure off a little.
The only Survivor that's come along that could really knock Meg off the top spot is Vee. I've wanted a rock musician Survivor for a long time since I also spent my teens and 20's playing in bands🤘. Yes, I know we have Kate already, but I have a feeling I'd really hate Kate's music.
My licensed main is Rain because I love Alien. Her model isn't the best. But unlike Ripley, BHVR at least got the likeness of the actress who plays her. If BHVR ever add a Gremlins chapter with Billy and Kate or a Stranger Things part 2 with Robin or any of the Ghostbusters, you can bet they would all become my mains too.
-
I can understand DCs, but why not track abandoned games? I abandon a fair few games since I'd rather be in my next than watching a mori or bleeding out on the floor. Maybe it's a habit I should break if I don't want my Survivor MMR to climb too high. Seems to me like quite a lot of perfectly normal games are not being included in the stats.
It might not matter all that much for balancing purposes because the percentage of abandoned games could be very small, but still…
-
I think he'd probably have to be a Survivor. I'd like a properly evil Survivor in the game one day (though I suppose we already have a few bad eggs).
What would his power be as a Killer? It might be funny to see him reanimating angry pet cats to attack the Survivors Houndmaster style, but that's pretty much all I can think of.
-
Nah, I'd rather have a chill time playing in the events if that's all the same.
Getting blinded at every single pallet is the most annoying experience you can have while playing Killer. There will be plenty of Killer players out there that don't care about beamers. So it's not the end of the world if you go up against Lightborn every now and again.
-
I doubt they'll be adding any older Survivors in future, to be honest. Not unless they are licensed, anyway. And even that's no guarantee. We could have had Barry Wheeler wearing fairy lights from Alan Wake as a Legendary but we got Rose Marigold instead 🙃
Vitorrio's meant to be in his 50's yet he doesn't look a day over 30 (even though he's from an era that hadn't invented sunscreen or toothpaste yet). Nope, we'll be getting 20 something cuties from now until the end of days because that's what sells to the player base.
-
I'd say it's definitely marketed as a low stakes casual horror game, but a very significant part of the community treat as more like an e-sports title.
BHVR are trying to have their cake and eat it too by appealing to both the casual and competitive crowd, ultimately satisfying neither side entirely. I think the current balance leans more competitive, at least in the sense that they allow "tryhards" on both sides to adopt strategies / bring stuff to trial that will help them dominate their opponents more often than not. The game's definitely a bit unusual for making zero attempt to keep these two different types of gamer away form each other the way other live service games do.
-
I've found lots of Survivors go into the void, especially if they are winning. Play an instadown Killer and you should at least be able to get some of them off guard in there. I managed to get this challenge done over 2 play sessions.
It is a little bit grindy, but at least it's not the gen repair Survivor one. I'm not gonna bother with any Survivor challenges this Halloween because the event is so Killer sided (played one game and was instantly reminded why I don't play Survivor much anymore by a back to the hook tunnelling Nemi).
-
@TheArbiter said:
Ps4 and XBone are safe, but switch is extremely likely to be discontinued soon id imagine, especially with the new two week delay on switch patches
I dunno about that. One thing I learned from being in Switch purgatory for a few weeks is that there are a surprising number of diehard Switch players. I even saw a 10000 hour Billy when I was still playing over there (I've gone back over to PC now that crossplay is back). I suspect there is also a very healthy Switch population on the Asia servers where PC gaming is less popular and the Xbox basically doesn't exist. I don't think BHVR would want to lose these players by dropping support for Switch.
I think they will probably maintain a version of the game that runs on both Switch 1 and Switch 2 until Nintendo drop support for the former (which won't be any time soon). That makes the most financial sense to me. The game is still ugly on the Switch 2, but from what I've seen it runs at a very solid locked 30 fps, which is probably good enough for most players. I can't tolerate the inconsistent frame rates on Switch 1, but the game would be perfectly playable to me on the Switch 2.
I think it's more important for live service games to have a healthy player count than be "current gen" and for that to be achievable, the game kind of needs to be able to run on anything. I do think DBD should run better on the older platforms than it does, though. I don't know why other live service games that I've played on Switch run so much better than DBD, but they do (I'm guessing it's the spaghetti code).
-
@shalo said:
I wish I could, Twitch is giving me the old "There are no Drops campaigns available currently. Please check back soon." Along with many other people. https://www.reddit.com/r/Twitch/comments/1o6rvxx/twitch_drops_suddenly_not_showing/
@CountOfTheFog said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014685#Comment_4014685
I'm Getting an error as well...
I had the same error but it seems like it's fixed itself and my drops are back now. Check back later and maybe the same will happen for you guys as well.
-
@BorisDDAA said:
Yeah it's garbage. Also the building in the void has been removed!
Edit: fps drops all over the place very cool
I miss the void well platform which had a vault you could frenzy vault to get to the platform below with the wooden walkway (other Killers had to swing around the vault with a basic attack). I really enjoyed that and now it's gone :(
To be fair, the void well is a lot more accessible to players being on the ground floor. But also more of a risk to visit, especially with certain Killer powers. So not sure this was a good change overall.
-
It's gross and weird and I'd like for players to stop doing it, but BHVR don't like posts about this topic on the forum, so inb4 this thread gets deleted.