thesuicidefox
thesuicidefox
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Hmmm... good question. Most likely but it would only happen if they free themselves from the trap.
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@Awakey said:
I could put this the other way around.
Every killer game I've played for the last two days, my Ruin has been cleansed within the first 30 seconds of the game. They need to improve totem spots because I shouldn't have to play with 3 perks.
Which I even say in the OP is a problem. But putting totems in these little nooks that are 3 survivor lengths deep and 1 wide is not a good solution. I've seen plenty of great totem spots that are well hidden but not in these tiny nooks.
Look EVERYONE...
The devs fixed totem spawns on LT walls for Macmil and Autohaven maps FOR THIS EXACT REASON! Because a killer like Trapper can set a trap in front of the totem and it's impossible to do the totem without disarming the trap first. This was deemed a problem and thus they fixed it a while ago. But now, with new totem spawns on some maps (eg. little nook of boxes near water tower on Macmil, little nook behind boxes on top of Ironworks, and now several spots on Badham maps) it is a problem again.
I'm not asking for the totems to be easy to find. That's the last thing I want. I'm asking that they aren't positioned such that Trapper can put 3 FLIPPIN traps to completely prevent you from even touching the totem. If he wants to trap the area, or even right in front of the totem fine, but it shouldn't be a requirement to disarm (or in actuality sabo) a trap (let alone 3) to get the totem.
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@Spaceman94 said:
This post is just a survivor main crying because he wants an easy win and has to spend time actually looking for a totem. Grow up and stop complaining.
*Patiently waits for a telling off by a Mod*
Dude can you read?
The problem isn't the totem is hidden. The problem is that it's impossible to destroy because he can set 3 traps on it, all of which you MUST disarm before you can do the totem. And if he has Iri Stone then he never has to come back to that totem again.
Also I play both sides. Maybe read and comprehend before you say something ignorant next time 😉
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/624408#Comment_624408
It does work both ways you know. I had many matches also on survivor side where 1 mistake collapsed the entire match. It all depends what happens, when it happens and is it possible for both sides to recover from it.
Same here. 1 guy in basement, another goes to makes the save. Steps in a trap or gets caught before making the save. 3 gens left. Game is pretty much over if the killer decides to camp it. And those were games where things were moving along just fine for survivors then BAM brick wall.
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If you derank by DC'ing you risk a ban.
If you derank by throwing games then you are fine.
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FYI, you don't scream against Infectious Fright when you use Calm Spirit. It also hides your bubble aura from Rancor and Iron Maiden. It hides your screams/aura bubble from Doc, Clown, and Freddy snares. Not disturbing crows is way more powerful than people want to acknowledge, especially against better killers that will look for crows flying.
The only thing Calm Spirit needs to do is remove screams when you fall from heights and reduce Killer Instinct effect duration. I could get behind making it so you don't trigger Hag traps while walking, but I also don't feel it's that necessary.
Sabo needs some changes I will agree with that. Not a rework, but something to make it worth using, as it's pretty useless. Have it reveal hooks within 12m or something, just give it more utility.
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He made a few big mistakes though which cost him the game. One was going to kick the wrong gen, if he went to kick the gen by the hill he would have been able to keep his 3 gen setup. That's like the main thing that lost him the game, but there was also how he picked up the one Meg from the trap after gates powered and got DS'd. If he slugged he could have probably got 2 there.
And this is what I talk about all the time with killers complaining. You guys all fail to see the very VERY big mistakes he made. Had he went to kick the gen by the hill I bet he would have gotten a 3k at least, probably 4. It was in his control and he lost it, then he was on his backfoot the rest of the game.
If you seriously don't see those massive misplays then you're not a very good killer. How do you become a better killer? By acknowledging when it's actually your fault you lost and you don't blame the game. No one here seems to want to do that though.
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@immortalls96 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/624212#Comment_624212
Lol traps take 3 minutes and respawning randomly, yeah he will come over but it's what you gotta do , theres a simple counter..therefore theres no problem, it's really that simple..
I mean reset with Iri Stone. 🤦♂️
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@immortalls96 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/624199#Comment_624199
It's called a toolbox..boom..next?
Good luck sabo'ing 3 traps before it resets or the killer comes over.
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@immortalls96 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/624188#Comment_624188
It took the effort to grab 3 traps, set them..and guard them..that's hardly no effort and your complaint is that he kept coming back so literally it's the same scenario 0_0 what do you mean??
If he uses Iri Stone he never needs to come back. The Trapper in the most recent particular case did not use it, but the others did.
I play Trapper. I use Iri Stone regularly. Even I can see why this is a problem.
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@Decarcassor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/624151#Comment_624151
I still don't get it. Trapper has always been able to do this. The fact there are 3 traps does not change anything. Disarm a trap after the other. If you ear the TR start running. Then trapper has to make a choice with only bad outcomes.
- He chase after you. Depending on the map and how good you are of a survivor this can take a very long time for a M1 killer. Meanwhile the gens are undefended.
- He reset the trap(s) you have disarmed. Wich mean you can stop running and just hide. When he leave you go back and disarm again. If he stay to look for you, the gens are also undefended.
- He give up on his totem to keep defending the gens wich mean you can cleanse it.
Also if you have a toolbox you can sabo the traps if they really annoy you that much. Brown toolboxes are pretty common in chests.
Beside its not like its impossible to work the gens trough Ruin. Could be Lullaby or Devour Hope but thoses perks are a big gamble. So if Trapper brought a very high risk totem and managed to defend it successfully while not being gen rushed into oblivion, I think he deserve to take than win.
He WAS able to do this, then the changed those totem spots so he couldn't. But now some of the new spots they added he can do it again.
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@Acesthetiic said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/624146#Comment_624146
Don’t think you have to worry about trapper getting 3 tokens before you eventually break it. Too much time in between for that totem to survive. He would be required to hook a survivor far away from the totem (and have to chase a survivor and down them). Not to mention if a survivor has found the totem and they’re just tooling around with them, making the trapper having to retrap over and over again. If he gets it before survivors notice devour? Well I’d be surprised if it got to that point since he’s dedicating so many traps in one area. He’s especially 115% speed with no power. Gens should be popped by then. Especially with the amount of pallets in Badham.
I was playing as a 2 man. I have no control over what other survivors do, and random survivors tend to no do gens and look for totems. If you are a 4 man you can beat basically anything, but when you are at the mercy of other survivors things like this should be impossible.
@immortalls96 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/624161#Comment_624161
Please I've faced prayer beads spirit doing this with thrill which is worse as shes a stronger, faster killer..you losing to trapper setting a couple traps doesnt impress me -_-
Except that she has to actively stop you on the totems. She doesn't have the ability to set 3 "touch me nots" in front of it so that she basically doesn't need to do anything immediately.
And it's not about losing either, JFC. It's about IMPOSSIBLE TO DO ACTIONS. Nothing should be made impossible with no effort.
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@immortalls96 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/624162#Comment_624162
Someone upvote this guy..ty..you basically covered all the bases with this..I was honestly steamed someone was actually demanding hexes be made completely defenseless
You clearly don't understand my argument.
I'm not asking for them to be DEFENSELESS. I'm asking they aren't made impossible to destroy so easily. If I wanted them defenseless I'd ask for them to spawn out in the open and to remove TOTH/HG as options. SMH 🤦♂️
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What bothers me as survivor is that Estate is a pallet desert in the middle of the map. And there are a lot of fake paths blocked by hidden logs, it's dumb.
What bothers me as killer is just the sheer size of the map. It's too big.
They do need to fix this map, but IMO it's low priority compared to Haddonfield and Ormond.
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@HatCreature said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/624136#Comment_624136
@NMCKE That is the most beautiful thing I have ever seen 🤣 That match must have been glorious.
Now Fox, I understand your argument after looking the whole thread over. Your argument is solely that despite that you could have used his strategy against him and won the game, that it was still ''impossible'' to do destroy the totem. I get that, but it was Trapper, even it was Devour it was still Trapper and it is OK to not be able to destroy the totem. Totems are not meant to be destroyed, they are ABLE to be destroyed and allow the Survivors relief from it but destroying it is not mandatory nor is it always necessary. Survivors CHOOSE to do totems and even though a situation can come up where it can be impossible it doesn't matter, it honestly does not matter in the grand scheme of the match because you can still win regardless. If you and your entire team die because you wanted to destroy a totem then that's your fault for falling into the Killer's trap.
Now if you were not allowed to Exit the game and the Devs made it where you can't leave unless all Hex totems were destroyed, THEN you would be right. You would be right because Survivors wouldn't be able to choose to do the totem, it would be mandatory.
"it was still Trapper and it is OK to not be able to destroy the totem"
No it's not okay. That's the point. It shouldn't ever be put in a spot where he can literally put 3 traps and make it impossible to do. The only way it's possible to beat is if you are a 4 man SWF that is very coordinated. No that should never be the case.
Killers asked for better totem spots and I agree totem spots suck right now. But this is going TOO FAR in the other direction. If killers want to use totems then they need to accept that they will get destroyed at some point. If you want to not have it destroyed, then you need totem protection perks like TOTH or Haunted, and/or you should be ACTIVE in defending it. What @NMCKE did with his Nurse build is fine because he was actively stopping them on the totems. It's still a little dumb they were so close but that's still fine. Trapper does not need to ACTIVELY defend these totems spot though. If he equips Iri Stone it would literally be impossible because you disarm 3 traps, and by the time you finish the totem the trap beneath your feet opens and you get trapped, probably even before you can finish it. Trapper only needs to pay attention to it after hearing 3 trap pops, traps that you can't avoid.
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@immortalls96 said:
You can..just gotta get through the traps..its never " impossible" plus I'll be blunt with you..two survivors and one gen left..ruin or no ruin you were screwed if the killer had a brain which he must have since even minus 3 traps your team got wiped..besides, It was only impossible because you thought it was..maybe listen to a few of the others here..they gave some great ways to deal with what happened to you and there were more besides..think like I said..
Play against this then come back and tell me it's still possible. I'll wait 🙄
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@immortalls96 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/624095#Comment_624095
Lol totems are meant to be removable not forced to be temporary or they'd be on a timer..there are counters to trapper trap and as someone with common sense pointed out he reduced his chase and map pressure for ruin so he made a sacrifice..you want to be lazy and have zero opposition..you sir..should be ashamed to call yourself a gamer
"totems are meant to be removable" Yet when I point out you can't remove them that's fair then? Yea okay.
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@Decarcassor said:
I don't get it. Its a pretty common strategy for Trapper to protect his totems. Its not like the bear traps are difficult to remove. If he keep coming back every time the trap is popped he won't be defending the generators. And if he is on ther other side of the map he probably won't even have the time to come back before the totem is destroyed.
Dude, 3 traps. All impossible to step past. This was one of those little nooks that's like 3 survivors deep. You can't disarm all 3 and do the totem before he gets there. You'd be lucky to disarm 2 before he was halfway there.
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@GrootDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/624117#Comment_624117
You can cleanse it though and you can still save people whenever Trapper traps the Thompson house. You couldn’t save with old face camping.
No you can't. Have you even played against this yet? It's impossible. The only way your getting the totem is if he let's you. You pop a trap and he's coming right back. Your not gonna get the totem. I've played against 3 Trappers that were able to do this on different maps in the past week. The Thompson House thing I've seen quite a lot since they added that hook in the attic.
Killers are getting their better totem spots, but now when it's too much they say it's fine. The irony is strong here. No neither end of the spectrum are fine. Totems should be hard to find, but not impossible to destroy.
@Acesthetiic said:
Personally, I’d love versing a killer doing that. It means he’s focusing on just his totem, not the survivors objective. But hey, that’s just me.
Ok, so what if it's Devour and has has 3 tokens? You are basically screwed, permanent one shots and you can't destroy the totem.
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@GrootDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/624105#Comment_624105
If you can counter it then it isn’t “impossible”.
You could counter face camping to bodyblock the hook prompt by doing gens, but just because there is something you can do against a tactic doesn't make that tactic fair.
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@GrootDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/624095#Comment_624095
I was going to further discuss this but then I saw “Thank you. Someone with common sense here.” Which makes me think you aren’t worth arguing with, your opinion isn’t the only valid one.
There is no arguing for making something IMPOSSIBLE. That's why they removed the ability to body block a hook prompt as killer, or body block the basement, or run an infinite loop as survivor. Because actions were impossible to perform. It was impossible to save. It was impossible to leave the basement. It was impossible to catch the survivor.
Impossible things shouldn't exist.
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@HatCreature said:
This is not a problem in my opinion.
Like you said, do the Gens. A really good strat would have been to keep him next to his totem by disarming one and running off or sneaking off. And when he would go, disarm it again so he would come back making it easier for the other Survivors to do the Gens since his pressure is really low.
Really that whole match could have turned into your benefit with the right strat and attitude towards his strat. He had a good defense and because it was good and annoying your team it got everyone(I'm assuming) killed. Really your team made that totem spot good, it was only a good totem because you guys made it good, when a team focuses on a totem instead of a Gen then they lose.
This has nothing to do with counter strats. Obviously it can be countered to a degree, but the point is that he shouldn't be able to set a trap such that it's impossible to do his totem. I play Trapper and I still think that's dumb. Same goes for attic on Thompson House. He can set 1 trap at the top of the steps, now it's impossible to make that rescue. GG guy on the hook.
Trapper needs buffs but not like this. No totem, no hook, should be made near impossible so easily.
Make totems harder to find? Yes. Make them impossible to destroy? No. By your logic we should just allow totems to spawn outside the map because you can obviously "just do the gens". But that misses the point.
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@immortalls96 said:
That is so entitled....by that logic exaustion perks should go by a token system with each exaust..just accept that if killers want their hexes locked down then you either need to try something aside from brute force..because..the killer isnt supposed to be 1v1 able...sorry trapper is good at guarding hexes, try a new rout..dont tell the devs to hand you a victory or the ability to remove killer perks unapposed..makes survivors look like pathetic helpless noobs..seriously think before you speak
No what's entitled is to think your totem is so precious it needs to be hidden so super well and up the entire game.
I'm not asking for anything other than a reasonable chance to destroy a totem I found. Being able to set 3 traps in the same nook that makes it impossible to get to your totem is the DEFINITION of entitlement dude.
Your comparison isn't even close to the same thing. Hex perks aren't meant to last an entire game. It's one thing to except them to last for a certain amount of time because they are hard to find, I'm fine with that. It's quite another to expect them to be permanent.
@GrootDude said:
He is wasting three traps to defend one totem, something that was already possible. He now has less traps available and assuming you and your team are able to hit greats then you should be fine.
We had 1 gen left but someone was dead and another was about to be killed. If we didn't do his totem there was 0 chance for the other 2 to get out, leaving the option only available to 1 of us but, like any smart killer, he slugged to get the 4k so it was actually impossible to escape.
Like killers need to accept Hex totems can potentially be taken out. You shouldn't be able to make it impossible. If he wants to trap the area to make it risky that's fine, but trapping it such that it's IMPOSSIBLE is not fine and very broken.
@NMCKE said:
I agree, it's really stupid, but hey, killers can also get totems that are impossible to defend. I'm not justifying this, but both extremes do need tweaking in my opinion. :)
Thank you. Someone with common sense here.
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@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/623877#Comment_623877
Have you seen my Nurse before since we play on the same platform? Just curious since we're on the subject right now.
I haven't played you but I know you've played against some of my friends. I won't say who or what happened, just that I've seen your Nurse in action.
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@Marcus "Iron Will doesn't hard counter her" - It does though because it makes you much harder to find when phase walking. If you run or do things to make noises then you aren't taking full advantage of IW's benefit.
"Windows aren't any stronger against Spirit unless we are talking about the bullshit ones from Ironworks of Misery and other [BAD WORD], which are also as strong against Billy and any killer other than Nurse and somewhat Hag."
Yes they are crazy strong against her because she has to end phase walk to vault, and most decent windows require her to walk around if she expects you vaulted, which means she either ends her power early to vault or wastes it all trying to cut you off. Pallets on the other hand don't offer this security unless they are dropped, which is why pallets are generally so unsafe against a Spirit.
In the case of the super strong windows... you vault, she vaults, chances are her power is still in recovery, by the time it's back up and she catches up you already made it back to the window. Being a 110 killer means she can't just brute force the loop she MUST use her power to catch up, but you force her to vault and she can't use her power and vault at the same time. Trust me those loops are way better against Spirit than Billy. Hag can break them because she can set a trap and teleport. Nurse can teleport. Spirit has to follow you, even if she is invisible and moving faster you will make the window over and over until it closes. Try it sometime you will be surprised how effective windows are against a Spirit.
"90% of Billy mains I know told me that Billy is weaker than Spirit. Literally any person playing Billy somewhat constantly in high ranks thinks Spirit is stronger than him."
And you have a Spirit main telling you Billy is stronger, what's your point here?
"Billy doesn't force survivors to drop pallets earlier, stop living in dreams. Good survivors bait pallets and make extra loops and use windows and that delay his Spirit Fury. Billy doesn't break pallets instantly unless survivors drop the pallet when he is charging his chainsaw, which can be avoided. Otherwise, os not worth charging your chainsaw to break the pallet."
A Billy that can curve and has insta-saw add-ons can indeed force pallet drops early, and if they have SF/Enduring they can do it even more than normal. And it is worth using your chainsaw to break pallets because you can bait the survivor to break for the next loop and instead of breaking the pallet you chase with the chainsaw. You can put them in a situation where you force them to lose distance because you can threaten to break the pallet OR come after them at the same time. You can't do that with other killers because once you commit to the pallet break you are stuck doing the animation. You can't force the survivor to run away early and follow without breaking the pallet like you can with Billy.
"Haddonfield is Spirit's worst map, but yet, Spirit mains stil don't DC and they still 4k with 32k BP against multiple Iron Will users there, while some of Billy mains DC on Haddonfield, Lery's and Ormond, and if you have the urge to DC just because you got that map, that says something about the strength of that killer. "
No it doesn't LOL. First I don't see more Billys DC on that map than any other killer. Second, just because these killers are babies and don't want to work for their kills by DC'ing doesn't mean that the killer is weaker than another. If I was the type of player to DC often, I would pretty much DC every time I got Haddonfield, doesn't matter what killer, because it sucks for all of them except maybe Trapper. In fact I know players that DC on Haddonfield all the time, doesn't matter who they play as.
@PickCollins said:
Also @Marcus just outed himself as clueless. Stridor does not counter Iron will.
No Stridor does hard counter Iron Will, which is why I say any good Spirit would be using it because it hard counters a hard counter to her power. IW3 decreases cries of pain by 100%, Stridor increases cries of pain by 50%, resulting in a net of -50%. Stridor will turn IW3 into IW1 basically. You can even hear it as survivor. Start a KYF game, put on IW and have the killer use Stridor. Then take a hit. You will cry in pain, this is how you can tell the killer has Stridor.
The only way to beat Stridor is to use NM and IW together, because NM adds that extra 50% back and makes you silent again.
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@Acesthetiic said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/623784#Comment_623784
You play on 80 for Nurse?
Or 85. But I don't play Nurse much anymore. I did months ago and got to rank 1 but I just don't find it fun to be looking at the ground 50% of the game. I can track and counter 360's just fine while blinking, it's just because I don't play her a lot I need to practice for like 2 days straight to get back up to par.
EDIT: Just checked my game, I have it set to 80. So yes I play 80 on Nurse. But I also use Shadowborn which increases your turn rate anyway, but I still don't have an issue even when I play without it. 100 just feels too loose to me.
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@Acesthetiic said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/621150#Comment_621150
I think 100 sensitivity is mandatory with any killer on console for me personally. Especially with Nurse.
I play on 80 or 85 (I forget) and it's honestly plenty for me. I rarely fall for 360's, really the only reason it works is because of bloodlust and how it makes your game lag for a microsecond if you swing right when it triggers.
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@GrootDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/620997#Comment_620997
This actually isn’t good advice since you’ll struggle without it. Play without add ons while learning her.
I think it's good to use a few times at first just to see how the blink works. But once you use it a few times, yea just go without add-ons until you master it.
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@Marcus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/623623#Comment_623623
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/623623#Comment_623623
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/623623#Comment_623623
"If a survivor plays perfectly" playing perfectly is relative. I can say "If Spirit plays perfectly, survivors can't do anything against her". Almost anything a survivor can do, Spirit can react properly and vice versa.
Hard counters ? She doesn't have any. A hard counter would be OoO against stealth killers, because no matter what they do, their powers will always be countered. I don't think any perk disable Spirit's power and she always has her counters against said perks.
Billy has "hard counters" too : offerings for Haddonfield and Lery's 😀. But seriously, Billy is more map dependent than Spirit.
Also, here is Billy's counter : You force him to M1. If he doesn't do that, you bait his chainsaws and use windows, every good Billy will M1 when needed, and after he M1 you, his instant down becomes useless, you get a sprint burst to another loop and you have Dead Hard to counter his chainsaw. You talk like Billy will always be able to instant down, but good survivors will almost always force him to M1. If he doesn't M1 and he is too greedy with his chainsaw, 3 gens get done anyway untill he instant down someone.
Spirit Fury takes time to charge up, survivors will drop pallets just when needed against Billy, they can stall him reliably using windows and untill you have Spirit Fury active, gens might get done already. And if survivors know you have SF, they can still play around it.
By your logic, I can say Billy is better than Nurse because Nurse relies on her power even more than Spirit, can't chase without her power, can't instant down and if survivors jukes one of her blinks, they can lose her or put enough distance between them.
If you need mind skill and perks to counter Spirit, she is simply better than Billy, period, end of disscussion. Against Billy I can take any meta perk I want and I even don't need to be "God Tier" with mind games to counter him reliably, while with Spirit you need these things. The survivors who can counter a good Spirit are already the survivors who could counter even a good Nurse, while with Billy you even don't need to be that good to counter him.
It's not that you "need" these things to beat Spirit, it's that they exist in such a way that they can beat her for you. Iron Will is indeed a hard counter to Spirit. That perk alone makes you much harder to track in phase walk. Billy has no such hard counters.
As for the M1 argument, Billy is a 115 killer. He has the option to M1 if he needs it. Spirit, by contrast, is a 110 killer meaning she can't just go around and M1 if she needs it. She MUST use her power. And unlike Nurse, her power has a cool down. Also unlike Nurse, her power doesn't let her negate windows and pallets completely. She can play around pallets, she can't play around windows. That's why I've said in the past that windows are your best options against Spirit because she is forced to either vault and lose distance or go around and lose the chase entirely.
As for map dependency, Spirit does poorly on Haddonfield like all killers. And she can potentially do poorly on Lery's because there are so many windows. It depends on how the tiles are spawned.
Spirit Fury does NOT take long to activate if you play Billy. You can force pallets down early and break them faster with chainsaws. You do that twice and you are set. Also by "play around it" you mean drop the pallet early, which is still a benefit to the killer, especially if that killer can instantly break it like Billy can.
Regarding you last point, again it's about the cost of mistakes. You make a mistake against Spirit you get hit. You make a mistake against Billy you go down. If 2 survivors make mistakes in quick succession against Billy, that's the game. Spirit can't snowball nearly that easily or quickly. She needs a total of 4 hits unless she has something Exposed but that is way more situational than chainsaw. All Billy needs to do to get his one shot is catch you in a bad position. No need for any specific trigger, just get close when there isn't a pallet or window immediately nearby and you go down.
Billy is just better. That's how it is. He has more snowball potential, can force early pallet drops to make dead zones really quick, and doesn't always need to rely on his power. That puts him above Spirit.
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@Marcus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/622900#Comment_622900
Spirit depends more on her skill than survivors mistakes, and while she will need for survivors to mess up at times, she can do her own plays more often than Billy can. Also, Mother Daughter Ring + Bloddy Hair Brooch is more broken than Anal Beads against survivors with Spine Chill.
I wouldn't say that, more that Spirit has more ability to force survivors into situations where they make mistakes. If a survivor plays perfectly they are still going to be hard to impossible to catch, even for Spirit. Again mind skills.
The thing is the COST of those mistakes. Spirit can force you to make many small mistakes which she can capitalize on quickly and get a hit. Billy can't force as many mistakes as Spirit, but when you do make a mistake against Billy it's a down not a hit. The cost of a mistake against Spirit is low but frequent, the cost of a mistake against Billy is high but less frequent. Billy's snowball potential is way higher because of that. He lands that 1 chainsaw and it can swing the entire game. He lands 2 chainsaws quickly and chances are he just won that game.
Billy also has the option to chase like a normal killer, where Spirit does not. She is almost completely reliant on her power. Billy isn't.
Sorry but I just don't believe Spirit is better than Billy. It may seem that way but if you have a survivor that is has the right perks and the right skill set against Spirit she will have a hard time. Billy doesn't have those very big weaknesses. His only weakness is that he can be looped, which isn't really even an issue because he can force pallet drops better than any other killer and if you give him Enduring/SF that ability is multiplied. A good Billy will eat through pallets so fast that the looping weakness is almost non-existent.
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@Marcus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/622900#Comment_622900
Well, if you need specific perks and such a high skill to counter Spirit, I would say she's better than Billy. The survivors you described in your comment could counter even Nurse without Omega Blink and even Nurse with Omega Blink on a map like Lery's.
The difference is that there are no perks that hard counter Billy's power. Spirit has at least 5 perks that hard counter her power. Whether those perks are necessary or not is irrelevant when one has hard counter options and the other doesn't.
As for skill, you don't need "high skill" you need a specific skill which most players, no, most gamers lack. Mind skills. I've played a few games at a competitive level, and I was involved with many more as a tournament organizer. I also mostly play only versus multiplayer games. I can tell you from just those experiences that majority of people lack a specific skill where you can predict your opponent and be unpredictable yourself.
Most gamers play like robots and do the same things over and over, like clockwork. I've seen supposed "good" players get bodied by WAY less skilled players because they were just so predictable, and the less skill player was unpredictable AF. Look up a player named Azen in Smash Bros. When this guy hit the scene, he dominated everyone. He didn't even own the game. He could beat you with almost any character. I saw him, in person, topple what were the Melee gods at the time because he was just so good at predictions and being unpredictable. It was the craziest thing to see this nobody who couldn't wavedash and barely L-cancel dominate what were the best players at the time. He became one of the best players in the game and is now a legend in the community, though eventually he was beat by other players as is the natural order of things (no one stays at the top forever).
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Thana and an apple are most necessary on her because they force survivors to cleanse. After that it's more preference or meta picks (BBQ, Ruin, Pop, Whispers, SF/Enduring, etc.). But you really need Thana and an apple to force them to cleanse, because if they don't cleanse you are gonna get run over very easily.
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I main Spirit and I honestly think Billy is mildly stronger.
He is a 115 killer. He has faster movement speed with his power. He has a one shot built in. He is way easier to learn than Spirit. And when you consider perks/add-ons I think Billy gets more benefit because of Spirit Fury/Enduring and insta-saw or engravings. The only exception is Prayer Bead Bracelet, which is definitely more powerful than anything Billy has, but that's one specific add-on that is honestly broken and should be nerfed anyway.
Spirit is a 110 killer. Her power has a cool down period. She requires more skill to use against better survivors. And her power is HARD countered by Iron Will, Spine Chill, Lightweight/DWM/Poised, and Q&Q. She is a mind skill killer. That means if you don't have good mind games, you won't really succeed with her. Billy is a technical skill killer. You don't really have to think with him, just don't make dumb mistakes and you can just kind of play on autopilot.
Basically, Spirit can potentially be more powerful than Billy, but it's way way easier to reach Billy's max potential than Spirit's. Billy can also generate pressure much faster than Spirit purely because of his one shot. All he needs is 1 chainsaw hit at the right time to swing the game.
The reason I think more people rank Spirit higher than Billy is because she is harder to learn the counter plays. For Billy it's pretty straightforward... don't get chainsawed. That's such a simple thing you can do a lot of things to counter it. But for Spirit it's way more complex, and it really comes down to the behavior of the Spirit. Does she do the stand still mind game a lot? Does she follow directly or try to cut you off? Does she break chases often to go for someone else when phase walking? Does she break every pallet, none, or just the important ones? There's a lot more to consider and to be entirely honest... most survivors are not that good at mind games. They might think they are, but when you can make choices based on the killer's red stain/character model/etc it's not really a mind game, more of an optimized reaction. Spirit requires a level of prediction and unpredictability that most survivors just lack. I can't tell you how often I just catch people running loops in the most predictable ways, or how they always fail to predict anything I'm doing even when it's a bit obvious. But you get that rare survivor that knows how to do this stuff well, and give them Iron Will or any of those perks I mention above, and it will be VERY difficult to catch them as Spirit. It's an entirely different beast.
You could argue that because Billy is so straightforward he is really easy to play around, which is true to a degree, but the catch is that if you mess up against Billy you eat a chainsaw. If you mess up against Spirit you get hit. It's just harder to not mess up against Spirit for most people, so their perception on her power is skewed because it's less her strength and more about their failure.
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You can tell it's going to happen to you if you heal and don't see the progress bar fill up. At that point the bug is already in effect and your only option to escape is the hatch. I've had it happen to me once, and it happened to several friends also.
It's lame but just be patient. Bug fixes are not always as easy as you think.
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P3 Spirit + Bear Skull Huntress
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Thana is only of value when you have 3 or 4 injured. With only 1 or 2 it's not going to make much of a difference.
Combine Thana and Sloppy to put survivors in a catch 22. They either stay injured and eat the Thana penalty, or heal and waste a lot of time.
Thana is also very effective on Plague and Legion because of the propensity for survivors to just play injured the entire game against these killers. It's also a good pick if you use Bloody Coil on Trapper, or ropes/chains on Freddy.
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Practice.
Play without add-ons until you master the blink. Otherwise it will be harder to learn in the long run.
Play on high sensitivity. Doesn't need to be max but should probably be over 75.
Don't get discouraged. Just keep at it.
Shadowborn is great for her because it help with fatigue and increases your turning rate (if you need more than max sensitivity).
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@PigNRun said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/621051#Comment_621051
While in EW I, Myers still has a 8m TR without M&A. Its definitely not going for him.
Hag's deafening add-ons temporarily occlude the Survivor's in-game sound. Just that. Nothing to do with aura reading impediment or inability to hear the TR.
Myers EW1 is 6m TR.
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@immortalls96 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/621086#Comment_621086
Once again..are they good perks or not? If not you shouldnt care..if they are then you should accept stealth killers need an identity and now will soon have one..have fun with your ignorance as I'll bear it no longer..I've torn your petty tantrum apart
They are not good perks, and they would be made even worse with an unnecessary change. So if they aren't problems then why change them? If they aren't good perks you shouldn't care about them either. At least I'm fighting for an unnecessary change that doesn't address the real problem, OOO.
OOO is and has been a problem since day 1, and is what people talk about when they say "aura perks unfair for stealth killers". It will stay a problem after this change too, but now only for non-stealth killers. It would be infinitely easier for the devs to just rework OOO than add in new status effects and exceptions for specific killers on specific perks.
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@immortalls96 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/621068#Comment_621068
Funny how your calling me a crybaby for wanting stealth killers to have an identity but your complaining that perks that "arnt a problem " being countered by the killers that logically should counter them...no offense but your being seriously hypocritical
LOL what is hypocritical? Those perks are all so meta right? They completely ruin any stealth options the killer has right? No they aren't and no they don't. They barely have an impact on the game because the aura reveal is a few seconds after a very specific trigger. I play Ghostface and have absolutely no issue with any aura perks except OOO because you can EASILY play around all of them.
OOO is the only aura perk that is a problem because you are basically visible 100% of the time if the survivors wants. And it's a problem for all killers, not just stealth killers. The logical thing would be to just change OOO and call it a day, because that's the only perk that actually has no counter play for killers and heavily impacts games.
You're basically asking for aura perks to be useless against stealth killers because you fail at being a good killer. It's so easy to play around all aura reveals other than OOO it's not even funny.
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@immortalls96 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/621033#Comment_621033
No it's very necessary..gives stealth killers their own feel..their own place , and oblivious isnt for stealth killers I imagine except maybe myers..its interesting for other killers though
It is unnecessary because the problem wasn't aura perks, the problem was OOO. And even after this change OOO will still be a problem because it's a problem for every killer not just stealth killers.
OOO needs a change. We don't need to make a universal exception to stealth killers for aura perks. We need OOO to be reworked.
Like if you seriously complain about perks like Alert, Breakdown, Dark Sense, or Kindred while playing any stealth killer then you are just being a cry baby. These perks aren't the problem. OOO is the problem.
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This is so unnecessary.
Change OOO. That is the problem, not aura perks. Aura perks other than OOO are totally fine against stealth killers because the aura only lasts for a few seconds. You can easily play around Alert or Breakdown as a stealth killer. OOO screws over ALL killers not just stealth killers.
Also Oblivious is kind of a dumb status. Why tell the survivor their perks aren't working? You are telling them that the killer is in stealth mode. That's more powerful than any aura perk.
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I know people with like thousands of hours after the devotion update and the highest I've seen/heard is 18 or so.
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The two things that drive me away from the game are the toxicity (both sides) and the long queue times as killer for red ranks. I also haven't played solo survivor in like 2 months because it's just a lame experience most of the time (I'd rather just play killer if I'm alone), so I've been sticking with just SWF. Otherwise I find another game to play.
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If you want BP you will need BBQ and WGLF.
It's also a pretty good perk to find new targets. But I often find the real value of BBQ is in using it to keep tabs on what survivors are doing. "That guy is on a gen, this guy is healing, this guy if running around doing a whole lot of nothing". Let's you know when you need to apply more pressure and when you have room to breathe and do something else you might need to do, like break some pallets, or kick a gen, or place more traps.
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@TKTK said:
Maybe the killer just wants to move on and isn't interested in farming?
Easy to say this when you can just kill the last 2 and get a safety pip from it. If you get 2 DC's that early into the game and kill everyone, that's iri Gatekeeper and gold Devout. That means you need bronze in the other 2 categories to get a safety which is super easy to do even with 2 people.
Those survivors though, just depipped because other survivors left.
If killers really wanted to just move on after 2 DC's they would just DC themselves. Significantly faster than playing out the game and you don't get rewarded for basically doing nothing.
Of course you or any other killer would never agree that's what should be done, so the reasonable thing to do is farm at least a little bit with the survivors. Chase one, get a hook, let the other do a gen while you chase. Then let them come in and get a save, chase the guy that saved the other does a gens. Farm pallets. It doesn't take long, like 8 minutes and you walk away with your safety pip, a ton of BP, and you actually have some integrity and good sportsmanship.
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👍👍👍
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YELLING?
WHO IS YELLING?
THIS IS MY NORMAL SPEAKING VOICE.
WHAT MAKES YOU THINK I'M YELLING?
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@HatCreature said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/617828#Comment_617828
@DudeDelicious I hope so too because I'm not sure if Thana stacks with Swing Chains since the add-on says ''up to Tremendously''. I'm assuming they get both percentages anyway since they originate from different sources but I'm weary about it.
It would stack. It says "up to tremendously" meaning that is the most you can get from the add-on itself, not that there is a limit to how much you can slow down survivors by other means.
Unless it says "does not stack" it stacks. And stacking only refers to the add-ons, not perks. Mangled effects cannot stack either but that's the status effect not add-ons/perk specific.