thesuicidefox
thesuicidefox
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@King_Checkmate said:
Im just gonna say, anyone that can play nurse good on console deserves credit.
Stiff afYes. Most Nurse's on Xbox are awful. I can't play her for crap. But there are a handful of rank 1 killers that play Nurse, IDK if they main her. One guy does perkless p3 Nurse.
I feel like Spine Chill is a good perk to fight Nurse because she's all about mind games and prediction. So if are around a jungle gym and she's say just blinked inside, she's going to look where she wants to go. If you see it lit then don't go that way. If it's not lit then she's not blinking that way and it's safe.
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@Mister_Holdout said:
@thesuicidefox said:
@Mister_Holdout said:
Do you have any plans to start using perks that are actually useful?And, is that console or are you just using a controller?
I play the game on Xbox. And my build is very useful. Case and point > http://xboxclips.com/thesuicidefox/46d027be-a193-4259-9c26-b43c4d8c5744
That was the 4th time I did this to this killer, it should have been 3 but he left me slugged one time and I got up. He was camping hooks super hard, so I did this to him. He got me, but I play to die so what (still pipped), but because of this everyone else got out. I was tapping gens around the map and 2 popped about 40 seconds after I died here and then they escaped. I can make those saves that are impossible and force the killer to take my hook because he can't slug me like a normal survivor. He has to hook me, and when I don't struggle he takes me far away for BBQ/event hook, my team finishes gens and leaves.
Dude, I didn't know you played on Xbox.
PC is an entirely different beast. I should know, I have 1000 hours on console.
And I'm telling you, things are different. This build of yours won't hold up on PC. The killers are much better.
Not trying to be mean or anything, that's just my observation. No Mither is not a very good perk on PC.
You don't understand what I'm doing though. I can make saves other players can't. I can force the killer to come get me. If you are an obsession I can take hits for you to save pallets/DS. Now the killer here wasn't very good. I have no doubt killers on PC are better, but when I'm playing to ensure my team survives it works as long as my teammates don't make mistake they get out. This guy wasn't a very good killer, evidenced by the fact of what his strategy was (camp/tunnel someone from the start of the game with LF). But I can do this to good killers and still pip, and give lots of chances to other survivors in the trial to stay alive.
The problem is survivors put on NM and play to escape. That's not how you use NM. You have to play like you are definitely going to die so you should do everything you can to make sure your team stays up. Does it work every game? No but I will usually still safety pip at least. It works you just have to not play like a normal survivor and try to escape. You have to play like a NM survivor and play like you are going to die any second.
I've also done stuff like get on a killers totem as they chase the obsession around it. I make them come pull me off, and because of Resil I do the totem faster than normal. If they ignore me their totem is gone, if they hit me or grab me they have to take my hook. They can't slug me, I will literally sit at that totem and get up until either it's gone or the killer takes my hook. When they do, the obsession takes the totem. It's lose-lose for the killer. If they slug me they will have to come back there EVERY time I get up, and I won't get up until I see them chase someone else or I know they are far away. I'll sit at 99% if they want to camp me slugged and their totem, but now the others can just gen rush. I force the killer to exchange a hook for a totem or lose the game because they wasted WAY too much time on me. Normal survivors can't exactly do that because they play to escape, so when the killer approaches them on a totem they don't want to take a hook because they aren't injured. But for NM guy, it doesn't matter, I'm dead anyway.
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@BasementLeatherBoi said:
Just to be clear I didn’t mean trolling like teabagging or pallet looping or anything like that. I hate that kind of stuff. I meant did you ever actually get to escape because he slugged you while you were running no mither.No, my escapes have been usually me standing by an open gate waiting for the killer to hook a guy, and then only leave when it's the guy's last hook. If it's not the last hook I will yolo save and the killer will usually take me, so I wouldn't escape in that situation.
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@Mister_Holdout said:
Do you have any plans to start using perks that are actually useful?And, is that console or are you just using a controller?
I play the game on Xbox. And my build is very useful. Case and point > http://xboxclips.com/thesuicidefox/46d027be-a193-4259-9c26-b43c4d8c5744
That was the 4th time I did this to this killer, it should have been 3 but he left me slugged one time and I got up. He was camping hooks super hard, so I did this to him. He got me, but I play to die so what (still pipped), but because of this everyone else got out. I was tapping gens around the map and 2 popped about 40 seconds after I died here and then they escaped. I can make those saves that are impossible and force the killer to take my hook because he can't slug me like a normal survivor. He has to hook me, and when I don't struggle he takes me far away for BBQ/event hook, my team finishes gens and leaves.
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No I won't troll killers. I usually end up offering myself to them after gates are powered if they didn't kill anyone and played fair. If they take someone though I will play to escape. I've escaped a handful of games, this screenshot being one of them. This trapper was pretty solid and got 2 so I left. I used Small Game for totems and got lucky we had a trapper because it saved my butt a few times when I wasn't ready to give up my hook. Never found the guys totem though SMH (someone else got it midgame), found like 3 dulls though.
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It's because survivors that gen rush end up screwing themselves out of Evader and Benevolence points. Go ahead, play a game as survivor super immersed and just do gens and leave. You will get gold LB at best if your whole team does it too, iri Unbroken, but no Bene and maybe bronze Evader if the killer hung around you enough. That's always going to be a safety pip.
Killers rank up fast because it's easy to 2 pip when you get bad survivors, or when you get blessed by RNG sometimes. Games where I 4k is almost always a 2 pip, if not very close to it. Hell, I've dropped survs on the hatch and still 2 pip.
Survivors need to not rush the game because it depips everyone but maybe 1 guy that did the most gens. When I was going through purple ranks, but as killer and survivor, these survivors just run to gens and do them as fast as they can. It's why DS is annoying to killers because when you chase that guy the other 3 just rush the game. But escaping like that isn't a win. You can make up a story about how you play how you want or you have your own goals, and no. A win in this game is a pip/2 pip. At rank 1 you can also consider a safety pip a win since you don't need pips at that point anyway. A depip is a loss. Trust me, I play NM I die as survivor like 95% of the time, but I can still pip in majority of my games because I'm playing for emblem points. I rush 1 gen by myself for silver LB and then work to make sure 2 gens are done so someone can hatch. I play for 2 saves/heals. I can do really silly things to the killer in a chase, because I'm playing to die where most survivors play to live, and get the chase to last about 60 seconds for easy silver Evader, then just let killer take my hook. If my team doesn't rush the game and it last 10 minutes, I can die and still get silver Unbroken. In those games I am guaranteed a pip because I will have 3 silver emblems and 1 gold in Bene because I will throw myself at the hook. I died, so what, still pipped. If it's a really long game I can get 3 iri emblems, die with silver Unbroken, and that's a 2 pip right there. That's a win by definition, I ranked up.
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I don't see the point in blocking the hatch if the idea is to stop survivors from using the gate which they have to do unless everyone is dead (meaning BW would have to be your 3k) which never happens. I've never proc'd BW in a game where that guy died and there was only 1 left.
What BW needs is just a QoL change. If the exit gates are opened while someone is on a hook or if someone is hooked after exit gates are open, it should proc. So then as killer I don't have to wait to hook the guy, I can just hook him and force survivors to not open the door or BW will proc. Alternatively if I have someone I can hook and the gates are already open, I can use it as it is used now.
The biggest problem with BW is getting it to proc in time. If a survivor on a door suspects you have BW they will either wait for you to hook or will try and do the door then run out before you get the hook. If you could just hook them anytime, the have to leave the door closed, so getting a hook behind forces other survivors to stay until they guy is off the hook.
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@Zarathos said:
In my experience Freddy is a win more killer. If he has a lead he can easily 4k probably better at 4king then most killers on account of being invisible and excellent at tracking. However he is reliant on m1ing survivors which is a gigantic weakness no instadowns built into this guys kit. His pallet games is also insanely weak no ways of stunning or slowing survivors so a solid survivor can loop'em with ease. Currently I'm on a mission to see how far I can push this guy the goal of reaching rank 1 with freddy. Slugging is probably the best option for him. Once you have killed 1 survivor begin to slug the rest of the survivors. Other then that you will have to consistently mindgame survivors as a single failure can cost you the game. He has great tunneling capabilities too if you want to remove a player but survivors are body blocking then tag only the one who was unhooked. this make it so other survivors cant body block. Is tunneling nice no but if the devs didn't want freddy to be a heavy tunneler killer they wouldn't have nerfed him in the first place.I play Freddy and you have to use mind games. Every time I face a Freddy or watch someone play him on YT, they do the same thing other killers do. Check gens until they find someone. Sleep them, hit them, down them, hook them, use BBQ for next survivor. Rinse, repeat until end of the game. People chase with Freddy like a normal killer, and he can to a degree you are right about him not having any way to stop survivors.
BUT he doesn't have to chase like a normal killer because he can see auras. You can let survivors run and cut them off or catch them in a bad spot if you just pay attention to what they are doing. And you can chase multiple survivors at once, if you get them scrambled good enough then they will get in each other's way. I found that Freddy is most effective at just harassment with sleep until someone makes a mistake THEN you chase. I use Class Photo + Z Block. I look like a baby Freddy when I sleep someone, but if I find 1 person I can find everyone. So I sleep the first one, make it look like I will chase then go sleep the next. Depending on where the other 2 are I will either go sleep another or hit the guy. If I think I can't catch him I will chase, but otherwise I will go to the others (who are almost always on a gen and I know what gen), sleep them, yadda yadda. Once I get 3-4 asleep I let them run around and when I see a chance for a hit I take it. If I see a chance for a hook I take it. If I see you healing or doing a gen to wake up, I come to you and hold sleep on you if you wake up, so you either have to start running, or get lucky you fail a skill check in time THEN start running. But now I sleep you and if anyone else woke up I will see them. If someone is asleep and near me, I see them. I run Dying Light/PWYF/Ruin, and I will do this until I can hook the obsession. Once I do that, if my Ruin isn't down or you don't have 2 gens done, the game is effectively over for you. Even if everyone is awake when my obsession dies, I just need to find one of you. And I'm invisible so I'll just stand around somewhere and wait for one of your to try and immerse your way past me.
When you play him like a normal killer he sucks. When you give him strong perks and Class Photo, and just harass everyone with sleep until you get a hook, he is quite strong.
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Hard to pin do my exact music tastes. I'm a fan of Slipknot and Prodigy. Also like mellow stuff and electronic. I'm a fan of Deadmau5 and I listen to some hip-hop. But I'm not really into most "popular" music.
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@Salty_Pearl said:
Is it supposed to help or hurt the Killer? I still don't get the point of it.It's supposed to confuse survivors a bit while you carry. If they don't see you and suddenly hear a heartbeat they might be thinking you are closer than you are and play immersed. But if they see you and your TR suddenly changes they know you have Agi. IMO it doesn't matter if they know or not. If they don't know, cool now they might screw up. If they do know, you still carry people really fast so...
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@S0ckenSchuss said:
if survs dont care to run through, something is wrong :chuffed:It's not they don't care, it's either run through gas and drop a pallet, or get hit. As survivor, you might know you can avoid a hit but sometimes you take a hit for reasons. Getting the killer to chase you more is one, because they will go after the injured guy (trust me I'm rank 1 NM guy). Maybe you do it with Calm Spirit and Iron Will for the speed burst to get away (kinda like free mini-SB if you are in the right spot). Or, maybe, you wanted to save the pallet. That's why it's not always a bad thing to chase at the shack. If it's bad survivor they will waste the god pallet. If it's a good survivor they will just take the hit and go somewhere else, or better keep going and maybe waste a god pallet OR take another hit (or get away, that's always possible).
Good survivors do care about the bottle effects but they calculate the options and just came to the conclusion this was the one that leads to them escaping. Kinda like how...
SPOILER ALERT
Dr. Strange sees into the future and out of the 14 million outcomes they only win 1, but then he gives up the time stone like ######### bro, but he has to or that future won't happen kinda stuff.
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As someone that plays Huntress now at high ranks I feel that she just needs to be as fast as a normal killer. Having a projectile means nothing if you can't ever get LoS on someone just hugging a wall. Yes slow her down a lot when she charges a hatchet but PLEASE boost her base movement speed to normal killer. That or buff her base wind up speed by 8% to offset the amount taken away from Babushka/Braid nerf. I used to use just Babushka before the patch with different add-ons and no Tinkerer because it was OP. I did fine. Now I have to use BOTH for the same effect as just a Babushka before, meaning I can't put on other good add-ons, like Begrimed Heads or Yew Seed, for other effects. It's too easy to avoid her and loop her. Not to mention the hatchet throw is completely janky and needs some QoL fixes.
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@Der_Schatten said:
As a Killer i just hope they dont reveal the Killer Aura... cuz that would be too Strong. But i agree with, they can see each other all the time.That's why I say the aura should pulse like a heartbeat. You don't see the killer but you know they are near, so it's an unsafe hook. That's fair because killers should be walking away from hooks ANYWAY to encourage the save. Not doing that and camping is what makes survivors gen rush.
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@Swiftblade131 said:
Sadly the perk doesn't help as much as you might think. Very few cases has it managed to stall the game for me.You need it to proc before 2 gens are done to get the most use of it, but when you get it at that point or sooner you can almost always win the game with a 4k.
@Hillbilly420 said:
It only really works on Freddy if you use the Black Box add-on AND have an Ivory Mori. But even then half the time the Obsession will either be close enough to another Survivor to instantly be woken up or they're close enough to a gen and just touch it and escape. I had that happen once. Start of the match I see the Obsession, I'm roughly the distance of a quarter of the map away, the guy touches a gen for about one second and he escapes.No, don't use Black Box at high ranks. If you have a good obsession they will immediately know your build. I just got a 4k with Ruin, DL, PWYF, and BW with Class Photo/Z Block and a pink mori. Use CP to find my obsession then got her before 2 gens were done and they did a third +Ruin as I mori'ed her, and then the game just stopped. I wouldn't chase until I got everyone asleep so I just keep walking around the gens and sleeping people (which shows where everyone else is) until I killed one. Rinse, repeat for last 2 until I slugged one, her friend got the heal I came back and got them both.
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@iceman2kx said:
Freddy is one of my favorite killers. When I play him, there's 2 things that I wish were changed about it.1.) His inability to interact with people at all when they aren't in dream state. As a killer, you're what people run from. It just feels bad when you watch survivors heal or complete gens right in front of you and Freddy can't do anything about it. They have time to finish a gen and run to a pallet all before they get pulled into dream state. Then, they can run off and instantly break out of dream state. This makes Freddy feel so useless.
2.) How easy survivors can break away from dream state. Freddy's greatest strength is also is greatest weakness. I've had survivors run from me, throw a pallet down, run to a gen and instantly get a skill check and remove their dream state. It's just crazy how much of a match you waste trying to keep people asleep as Freddy.
I think if they addressed the above 2 issues somehow, Freddy would be much better without making him overly powerful.
I agree. I've made these suggestions before, but I'm going to repeat them here.
For 1, Freddy's power should knock a survivor out of an action (other than vault/pallet drop) for 2 seconds similar to how Doc's shock can stop you for a moment. If he had this, you could force people off gens, heals, and hooks if for a short time such that if they tried to do it again after the 2 seconds then it would mean they have to take a hit to keep doing it. It'd also mean he can immediately stop you on a totem or the door and force a chase.
For 2, I think skill checks in DW should be inverted. Where most of the circle is a fail, with a small good zone and really small great zone, DW should swap the fail and good zones so if you want to wake up you need time the FAILED skill check like a normal one. If you miss the skill check, you actually succeed and get the skill check. It would mess with survivors because it flips skill checks around. Great zone should stay the same, and Overcharge should stay the same, but otherwise that's how they should be. And if you use Unnerving it would just make the fail zone in DW smaller.
Do these 2 things, remove the negatives from his add-ons and buff the white/yellows, remove the -5% speed on Red Paint Brush and instead make it so Freddy flashes in real world randomly once per 30 seconds or something (and make it so Pill Bottle stops that from happening as well as the current effect), and Freddy would be a solid killer. Maybe also make DW immune to fog offerings.
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Also the problems are there aren't enough ways to mind game survivors (too many safe pallets that can be looped) and that killers don't have enough ways to make survivors mess up (which comes down to mind games, but then also more perks like Overcharge and such).
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@Hillbilly420 said:
@thesuicidefox said:
@Hillbilly420 Adding more objectives isn't the right choice. When killers have a good build with good RNG, those extra objectives can be really unfair to survivors. I think that there needs to be more ways to force saves and rescues.Like, if the killer gets a hook on someone maybe that should lock gen progress for something like 10 seconds or until they make a rescue. Then killer would stay by the hook for a short time to make sure no one saves right away, and survivors would be forced off gens if even a little bit forcing them to rescue, get into a chase, or hide.
Another person who doesn't read obviously. I suggested multiple other solutions to the problem. I'll quote myself again since clearly you fail at reading:
"Increase the time it takes for Survivors to leave. This can be achieved in so many different ways that it's laughable. You could introduce secondary objectives (I.E. gather parts for the gens in order to work on them). You could increase the base time for gens to be completed. You could introduce a system where hooking a Survivor automatically reduces action time dramatically, so basically it would be Thanatophobia but good."
Also, the devs have hinted that they want to add secondary objectives. So you can blow a dick.
I never said you didn't suggest other stuff. I'm saying that secondary objectives is not a solution. Buff perks, mess with numbers, but no more objectives. It should be gens, heals and saves as the objectives unless killer uses a totem in which case it's also a totem. I will say totems need something to make them more of a priority.
I was thinking it would be better if the totem applies to every totem, and the killer would need to keep 3/2/1 totems up to keep it proc'ed (number of totems needed depends on tier, the effects should just be flat across the tiers eg. NOED just puts Exposed on everyone, Devour just let's you mori after you 1 hook everyone, etc.). So when you have Ruin or any totem it can't just go down right away. If killer has an ACTIVE totem (which Ruin shouldn't be active until first skill check, Third Seal before first hit, etc.) they will all be lit, so as a group of totems they are easily to find but then totems overall are harder to just body at the start of the game. Then make TOTH a perk that isn't a totem but just meant to protect totem perks (with aura reading), give survivors the explosion when any Hex totem goes down and killer the explosion when the last totem goes down (with aura on last totem), and that would make totems that secondary objective like everyone wants. And if they do this they can add special effects if you have 5 totems, so then maybe Ruin with 5 totems has no great skill checks, so they have to do AT LEAST 1 to start doing gens, then work on the next 4 over time.
I would also say that if you cleanse a dull totem it should give you a notification of NOED, so survivors will want to at least do 1 totem themselves to check. That slows them down a little even if you don't use a totem, and if you have NOED they will spend all game looking for totems. Obviously this makes NOED less of a surprise tactic but I think it's main goal is to just scare survivors to slow down, and punish the ones that rush. It sucks as a solo survivor to be the first one hit with NOED, but if you know it's coming that's different. If I'm solo I'll try to do totems but if the Hex icon is still on my screen when the gens pop I will know to expect a NOED. I'm rewarded for doing something other than gens but if the killer is chasing me and hits me I still go down. Alternatively I know killers hate when their totems are shown to survivors, so maybe if you clean any dull totem and the killer has totem you get the Hex icon but nothing else. If you want to find out what it is you have to play through the trial. Then killers can use other totems beside Ruin, like Third Seal which has potential to slow the game because it makes it harder to do saves if you weren't paying attention to the hook (and beats all aura reading) but is awful simply because it gets bodied long before you can even get it going. Do this and killers can use a totem, just 1 totem, to slow the game and won't have to worry about losing it right away.
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@Hillbilly420 Adding more objectives isn't the right choice. When killers have a good build with good RNG, those extra objectives can be really unfair to survivors. I think that there needs to be more ways to force saves and rescues.
Like, if the killer gets a hook on someone maybe that should lock gen progress for something like 10 seconds or until they make a rescue. Then killer would stay by the hook for a short time to make sure no one saves right away, and survivors would be forced off gens if even a little bit forcing them to rescue, get into a chase, or hide.
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Survivors gen rush when killers camp or tunnel.
As killer the moment you hit someone, everyone else is on a gen. When you hook them they are still on gens, but looking to see what you are going to do. If you sit by the hook, they keep doing gens. If you go chase another one, now you have 1 in chase and 1 on a hook, with 2 on gens. When you hit that person, now 1 of the 2 on gens (or both) will go for the save. If you chase an obsession other survivors now see this and treat it as a hit. You have to leave the hook to get others to waste time saving/healing.
If you come back to the hook and chase the guy that was just on the hook, now other survivors know you tunnel too, so they also won't make saves. They will let the guy sit on the hook and do gens. Put on MYC though, and now when you come back to the hook you go for the other guy. Now they know you have MYC and won't tunnel, they will still make saves but then the MYC guy will either take the chance you don't come back or play immersed for a while until Exposed wears off. Both are good for you, the former let's you get a one hit on someone and the latter slows the game.
I just had a game as Freddy with MYC, Ruin, Clouro, Nurse's, Class Photo, and Z Block. This build is devasting because you don't chase people until you get a bunch asleep. Then you hit someone, then go after another one that's asleep. If you can hit 2 of them and go for the third guy, that is a HUGE time sink right there. At most 1 is on a gen, 2 have to wake THEN heal, and 1 is hooked. I bodied 4 teams in a row, would have been 5 but this last game I made a huge mistake and it cost me the game. It was on Resting Place, I spawn ON my totem (in a great spot), with shack, hill, 3 gens I can protect with a 4th just at the start of the middle section, AND both doors. I saw this and was like I can win this, and I would have had I not walked away from a gen on my side at a critical moment and let them split the map (2 were on the gen and I slept them, they tricked me to make me think they ran to another gen on that side that was barely running so I ran over and kicked it quick and they were both back on the other and finished it in DW, it was a lot closer than I thought). I had full control over them, I had a hook on everyone by this point, but then I messed up and they took advantage of it.
Most killers can't admit this though. They blame the game saying it's unfair. Well it's unfair when you can't escape a perfect killer. This is why people hate Nurse, because if she plays perfect there is no way to escape her. Killers love that, but it's really bad design when you consider that the game should really be up to the survivors if they escape. If they make mistakes against a perfect killer they get punished for it. If they don't they escape. But if the survivor plays perfect and still gets caught, that makes the game really lame after a while. If you just die all the time.
The best games I've played, as killer or survivor (dead or alive) have been long 2k games against killers that don't camp or tunnel/survivors that gen rush but will punish mistakes you make. Like recently with my NM-BT I yolo'ed saved someone that was being camped and the killer smacked him to give him BT, then came for me. After the game I said GG as usually, and he said something to the extent of "GG good you had borrowed time because I punish people that make unsafe hooks". I didn't reply, but it's like dude, if you never leave then it's never a safe hook. Survivors will go for a safe hook. They will ignore an unsafe hook and rush gens, which is why the guy got gen rushed. My team saw the BT guy take the hit first and knew the killer was camping AND tunneling. I was the only one to die but I was running NM and when I use that I play to die so w/e.
I really REALLY think killers need to play more survivor SOLO AT HIGH RANKS. Killers always say survivor is easy, but if you know how to mess up survivors as killer you can make the game a LOT harder for them. Smart killers come into the game with a good build and a good plan, and punish mistakes but also know to give survivors some chances, because when you do then they take more risks and waste time. If you make it look like you will give survivors no chance to escape, they play REALLY HARD to escape. If you make it look like they might escape then they pace themselves and take risks. This is why I always say good killers and bad killers, because bad killers don't try to mind game survivors at all they just do the same thing over and over. Then get mad when they get beat by survivors that know exactly what they are doing. Part of being killer is not showing your hand and letting survivors figure out what you are up to. If they see Ruin and here chainsaw, they KNOW you will have BBQ and will dodge it or bait you to chase them. It's obvious. Survs have told me Clouro is scary on Freddy, because it makes his lullaby basically DW, and if you are inside his TR there simply is no healing (it's 100%, SC would take 48 seconds). That icon on their screen scares them to make mistakes.
Killers need to accept that, due to RNG and chance of survivor mistake, that they might not kill anyone in a trial. They might also easily kill everyone for the same reasons. And survivors need to accept that they will die sometimes and escape others. It comes down to the mistakes you make, how good the killer's build/plan is, and how many mistakes the killer makes. If it's a strong build and a perfect killer, you really can't make any mistakes or you die. If everyone in the game plays perfect, then it should be 2-2 which IS BALANCE. That's a fair game, and if it's a long and fair game then EVERYONE wins, killer and survivors. This is why I run NM, if I can do 2 gens, get 2 saves, and escape 1 good chase I pip every time. The killer can kill me IDC, and if they don't catch anyone all game AND PLAYED FAIR I let them kill me, because it's being fair to the killer. I know normal survivors don't ever do that, but killers/survivors that understand the outcome of the some games are beyond their control won't play like jerks with other players so long as they can just pip.
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@davidps4DBD said:
If you're looking to slow progress, thanatophobia has relatively more uptime, doesn't require tunneling, and is more efficient than dying light if you really crunch the numbers. The chances of dying light performing better than thanatophobia is an rng crap shoot that heavily favors thanatophobia.there are better perks than either of these perks though
I agree. TP with Sloppy Butcher is quite reliable. But survivors have counters to this too, like Resil and toolboxes. It also relies on you hitting people often, and when they see TP most people will try extra hard to heal.
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@Hillbilly420 said:
The problem with Obsession perks is that you need to find the Obsession early in the game. It's a weird situation where if you don't run an Obsession perk then you'll probably find the DS user super early in the match. And when you don't run the Obsession perk you just can't find them.Save the Best for Last is easily the best Obsession perk precisely because you don't need to find the Obsession.
Yes, it's called RNG. Killers need to accept this as a fact of life. Your Ruin could go down at the start of a game, or it could last all game. Depends if the survivors find it.
It's a risk, but a good killer should be able to find and catch bad obsessions. Put on BBQ and just start going after hooks until you find them.
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@Tsulan said:
I understand your logic. But this perk (and the corresponding play style) will only net you toxic comments. Doesn´t matter if you only tunnel and camp the obsession. Yes, it can get the job done, IF you have a bad obsession. But most good loopers equip DS anyway. So they know how to keep you busy.
So it´s either a easy match, where you can use DL to its full extend and the survivors will report you for it (not a problem on PC, but on Xbox). Or you get a hard match and the perk won´t do anything._ I would recommend this only to experienced killers which know the consequences. Never recommend this to a new player. Since it could result in really toxic responses._
Yes, I am saying this to good killers. Bad killers won't be able to punish bad obsessions. Good killers can, and good killers are also the only ones that know how to catch obsessions. Like, that guy ran from me ALL GAME, his team did my Ruin and all the gens right as I hooked him once. He made a mistake running for the door, I took advantage and still caught him for the mori. Everyone else got out, I got a safety (because I killed the obsession) and that is totally cool with me. The guy was a good obsession, his team deserves to get out.
Like I use this perk and if I end up killing the guy fast I will actually stop playing, open the menus and send him a "GG, sorry it had to be you, better luck next time
". Yea it totally sucks to be that guy right now, and I sympathize but that's how the perk works. I send him a message and most of the time people are cool with it, some people are mad but then I just point out that's how DL works, again sorry, and they are cool with it. Maybe 5% would be so mad they can't stand me, but I'm willing to bet those players would be mad if I killed them in any fashion.As long as the killer isn't a dick to the obsession about what he did to him then people won't be toxic about it. Like, it's his job to run away from me as long as possible if I run DL, and if you do that bravo. Killers get mad at obsessions for looping but don't realize this is what that guy is there to do. If you don't have an obsession perk, this guy will just pester you all game and do stuff to make you chase him. Is it frustrating to deal with? Yes. Well put on DL and see how good this guy really is at running. Put on PWYF, break a few chases with him, and you can easily catch him at a loop. Make him drop pallets even, you could still catch up to him. This is what good killers should be doing. But good killers should also understand that DL is a ######### perk to survivors that aren't obsessions, so they should at the very least play nice when they can afford it and be a good sport with obsessions they kill and proc DL.
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@Tsulan said:
So YOU would recommend to tunnel? Interesting...On a more serious note, that perk needs a complete removal. It singlehanded promotes the 2 things survivors hate the most: tunneling and camping.
It's acceptable if you are running DL/RM (which I've stated many times before BTW). You have a completely legit reason for it because it's one of your perks. If you do it all the time, whether you have these perks or not, or whether you are winning or not, then it's just toxic behavior.
While I agree with you about survivors hating it, it is the obsession. If it's a really good obsession they won't get caught and they will all escape. But, it's the only perk in the game you can really use to punish a bad obsession. I usually play that if I catch the obsession and they don't DS me, then I won't camp them and let the team save, but I will still tunnel them if I NEED to. That's the thing with this perk and camping/tunneling. If you are winning, you have reason to not camp/tunnel because you aren't pressured to lock the game at that point. It's only once the game gets to a certain point, when like 2 gens are left, that you want to really make sure the guy is dead. Obviously you want to catch him once either before Ruin goes down or before 2 gens get done. But if you catch him before that point you can choose to let the game play out and chase other survivors (which you want to to anyway, because if you just camp the guy right away they others will rush gens). As long as you bring a mori and get that first obsession's hook quickly, you shouldn't force survivors to rush the game.
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@Tsulan said:
Yeah, that might work vs rank 18 survivors. But Dying Light is useless on high ranks. By the time you killed the obsession, 4 gens are done. DS users on high ranks usually know how to loop.Also the slowdown is to small. Even IF you manage to kill the obsession early.
If you combo it with Ruin you can get your obsession before gens are done. I think it comes down to how hard you tunnel. If you chase them REALLY hard and never relent then the others just rush gens. If you chase them until you get a hit at least, then break the chase if it goes on too long and go for someone else you can do it, baits the obsession to move away from loops. As long as Ruin doesn't go down instantly, you have time to catch the obsession. You want to proc DL at something like 2 gens anyway, because now even if they split the map you can still win. If they don't, it's pretty much GG for them. Your goal shouldn't be to catch the guy at 5 gens, because it gives it away you have DL.
And adding 26 seconds to a get or 6 seconds to a heal is not small. You force them to team up on gens, so now they are easier to find because they will all be together. As long as you kick gens, and watch any that are like >50% for a little bit until they go down, you can keep the game going as long as you like.
@Mister_Holdout said:
No thanks. I don't like that perk. I don't think survivors like it either.They don't, and that's why they gen rush if they think it's coming. It's why I say you should play like you have another obsession perk, maybe STBFL or none at all. If you have an opportunity to catch the obsession you take it and don't let anyone save (or maybe use something like MYC, let them save, then tunnel the obsession, MYC won't try to body block for him and will probably run away and hide for a bit).
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@thekiller490490 said:
Both killer dodging and survivor quick switch should be stopped. What I think would work is for killers once they enter a lobby they can't leave. When survivors enter they can't leave either and they are stuck with whatever build they have. The killer doesn't get a build lock as it lets them prepare for what the survivors are bringing in. 4 flashlights? Lightborn, toolboxes? Two anti gen perks. DoneYou know not every killer that starts a lobby and leaves is dodging. Maybe it's just been sitting at 3 survs for 10 minutes. Maybe they have to take a dump. Maybe they just don't want to play. You can't FORCE someone to play a game they don't want to. If I play Hag and I see 4 FL I'm not taking that match because they will kill all my traps. You're saying I should be FORCED to play that? GTFO please.
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If you do Class Photo and Z Block he becomes way WAY more powerful. You find 1 person you find everyone. No one can hide from you ever, and if you use it to sleep multiple people at once then chase them on and off, you can literally just stand somewhere and they will mind game themselves into your claw. I do stuff like sleep people while standing at the window until JUST before they fall asleep. They won't use the window, they will probably go to the pallet but I'm already standing there waiting for them.
You have to mindgame with Freddy, and you can do some really REALLY bizarre mindgames. Like if you find someone hiding don't sleep them right away. Follow them a bit it will freak them out they keep hearing the lullaby. If you really want to scare them, and they have something like MYC on them, just swing right before you put them to sleep. They will panic while they transition and mess up, then you got them.
The problem is people try to play Freddy like a normal killer when he's not. His power is 100% mind games. If you don't mind game with Freddy, and just try to play him like a normal killer, yes he will suck. When you do stuff like approach a running gen, walk in a circle around it with your power (and loud foot steps) then kick the gen, that's what normal killers do. If you are Freddy just walk up somewhere and stand there, waiting. I guarantee an immersed UE survivor will pop up from somewhere. Got a corn map? Walk through the corn like you walked away then come ALL the way around without disturbing the corn. Survivors will think you are walking away, when you are not, and they will start moving. If you can catch 2 of them on a gen, don't sleep the one that goes to run first, sleep the other one and stand behind them until they get off. Make it look like you will chase, but then follow the other guy. The slept guy will be REALLY confused and waste time trying to mind game you thinking you are trying to get them, but you're not. The awake guy will be really confused why he still hears a lullaby, and may lead you to other survivors. Rinse repeat, once they are all asleep you can watch them, and if they do something you don't want (gen, totem, heal) just pressure them. You do it long enough they get anxious and make a mistake then you can chase for a hook.
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Another problem solved by NM-BT-Resil. Use Kindred as your last perk to make everyone optimize when you are hooked and show them the killer is camping you.
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Run NM-BT-Resil. You will sponge the Bloody Coil but still get a notification (now you know that YOU are the trap disarm guy, if you run Small Game as your 4th perk it's GG trapper), and you do both the trap and totem faster so you can probably get it before he gets there. And with big fat NM survivor balls you can make him come all the way and pull you off. If he messes up at all his totem is gone.
Behold the power of NM.
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@Mc_Harty said:
@Nickenzie said:
I was thinking about having Rules Set NO. 2 built in to her main kit and have the new Rules Set NO.2 permanently hide Jigsaw auras. Additionally make the first Jigsaw box not have the key so survivors can't instantly get them off. With these two changes, a disabled RBT will be a threat since you can't see the Jigsaw boxes, thus you have to waste time and find them or wait for your timer to activate to see the auras.Why it's not part of her base kit, I will never understand.
Because it can be really strong on the right map. Use that add-on on Lery's and survivors will never get it off before it's active. It forces them to do a gen to make it active. That's really strong.
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@Salty_Pearl said:
I think they should make RBTs deadlier. I know it's supposed to stall but when the survivor can take it off after searching one box, it really doesn't do much. Besides, The Pig and Michael Myers are the only killers who can actually "kill" survivors with their power so they should be feared.They can also have it on their head for a full 2 minutes until they search every box. You can't have it both ways. It needs to be RNG, and sort of pattern you apply to it will be figured out and survivors will just get the first box every time.
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SWF is unfair, but killers have builds that can be quite OP. Myers with DL, Ruin, PWYF, Whispers, and infinite tombstone can body any survivor group, SWF or not, so long as he gets some decent RNG and the team isn't prepared for EXACTLY that build.
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If you use Third Seal and get a hit on everyone they can't see hooks. If they can't see hooks it's harder to save. Once you hit everyone they have to find the totem or they will be forced to rush saves when they see where you hooked. If you use Knockout they have no idea where the down was, and you can slug the guy on the ground. If he doesn't have Unbreakable or NM he's just like a missing survivor. SWF also beats it, but some maps like Lerys or Game are still really hard to navigate, just don't use hook in the common spots, do it on a random tile and they can find them.
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You will need to use it with a Ruin if you have a really good obsession. Blood Warden is a good backup in case they get the gens done, as long as you caught your obsession by then and burned through DS/Adren, you can slug them until you can proc BW. If they are smart they won't open the doors, but if you can catch someone the tries to revive the obsession then you can hook 1 and slug 1, now it will be hard to save.
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@pauloandrade22 said:
with that it would be an instant substitute from No mither to WGLF. and resilience for self care and do that. too bad i dont have BT tho.I've experimented a bit with the build and I found it mainly comes down to NM-BT-Resil. This is the combo you use to be a true NM guy.
If you want the team to feel bad for you when you are on a hook, and optimize their play when you are hooked, use Kindred. If you want to take hits for people, especially an obsession, use Empathy. WGLF would be good if you want to just rush hooks for bloodpoints. Left Behind would be for hatch games. Small Game if you wanna be the totem guy. Leader for team games. Etcetera.
If you play for 2 gens and 2 saves, and the killer doesn't take your hooks super fast, then you can easily pip every game. I've been letting killers take me if they didn't get anyone else, especially an obsession. If they take someone I'll escape through the door, but even then I'll do the doors and then give myself to killer if they played fair because it's the fair thing for them. That's a safety pip for them, and I already pipped so surviving won't make a difference unless the killer NEVER took my hook during the game (bc that's a 2 pip).
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@Orion said:
@ChesterTheMolester said:
Do you want to a guaranteed way to kill survivors after a mere down and not even a hook?BTW she has a power that can harm, its called a dash.
No, I want something that is actually an active threat to Survivors, instead of something that only becomes a threat if they decide it does. In short, I want Survivors to not have the power over whether or not Killers are a threat to them.
An active RBT is a threat to a survivor. Even without add-ons, if they ignore it for more than 60 seconds there is a high chance they will die, because they can't search all the boxes in time. When it's not active they still waste time at boxes. The mistakes I see a lot of Pigs make are 1) RBT every survivor on first down, and 2) going after players with active traps. If their trap is active you should leave them alone unless you really can't catch anyone else. Don't break a chase to go after these guys, let them waste time doing boxes. Pace the traps to keep the game going at a steady pace. It's not something meant to kill them, it's meant to be a time sink for survivors. But if you keep going after the guy with the trap, everyone else just does gens. If you chase someone else, you can get 1 on a hook, 1 doing boxes, 1 on a gen, and 1 coming to save. If you catch the guy making a save, now the guy on gens has to go for the save, so now no one is on gens. That's how you win as killer.
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Just FYI Hindered is Hindered. Clowns bottles do the same as Huntress yew seeds, but Clown can increase the effect with an add-on.
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My friend and I tested Tampered Timer and Jigsaw's Plan (the purple one) to see if you could do it, and it's possible but requires VERY optimal pathing and for you to avoid the killer. If you get lost or spend too much time being immersed around the killer you will not be able to get it off in time. With a normal Pig, that's not required, which is why those are her best add-ons IMO.
RBT isn't meant to kill, only slow the game because it forces a survivor to go look for boxes. Good RNG gets you 2 minutes, bad RNG gets you 30 seconds. TT/JP makes it possible to RBT even good survivors.
I don't see the problem.
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@pauloandrade22 said:
Yeah no mither is best used for stealth purposes rather than super aggressive purposes.With this build you can do both. Resil let's you do a lot of things faster, and BT let's you do aggressive saves if you NEED it. If you don't need NM guy to save, he doesn't save. He only saves when no one is going for it or if no one can go for it.
I wanted to experiment swapping Kindred with Sole Survivor, just for lols. Thinking I won't do ANY gens and just hang around until everyone is dead, then see how fast I can do the rest and escape.
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@CoffengMin said:
id hook the no mither guy even if he tries to save others, its a free hook and i wont let you get up, i usually drop the ds guy till i can hook him on a nearby hook if not... oh wellEvery time you hook him, a gen will get done and you lost another hook on someone else. Imagine just wanting 4 hooks, 1 for each (say BBQ), and only getting 1 no matter who you chase. Then when I die, gates are powered, everyone still has 3 hooks, and DS is still in play. There is no catching anyone else, you lose when you kill me, unless you can do it SUPER fast before I get the chance to do anything, or if you catch me and another guy somewhere.
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@Chrona said:
Read the bit above. If you've been on the hook, and he hasn't, even if you're both wounded, I'm going to choose you to chase. Just like in RPGs, focus and kill one enemy at a time.Dude, I get WHY killers do it. I'm saying that it's the easy thing to do. If you are a good killer you shouldn't be taking the easy way. I will let survivors unhook near me and go for the guy that made the save IF I can afford it. That's the difference between a good killer that plays fair and a bad killer that plays unfair. The good killer can do that and kill you, but it's easy, so they don't and STILL end up killing everyone, that is a good killer. It's also a good game for EVERYONE because when killer camps or tunnels someone that forces survivors to gen rush.
This is why my NM build (NM, Resil, Kindred, BT) will beat any tunneling or camping killer. If you camp someone, I will run in for a YOLO save and the ONLY way to stop me is hit me before I get there or they time the grab perfect when I save (if I do it right). If you tunnel, I will show up and eat the hit, now you have to hook me. If you let the other guy go and hook me, gens get rushed. If I'm up and about (and I know you camp/tunnel) I will gen rush until I need to eat another hit. A killer that wants to have fun and a longer game should just constantly slug me.
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@Mc_Harty said:
@thesuicidefox honestly I only find Resilience useful when either paired with Leader or Spinechill (for faster vaulting). But I'll trust your judgement.Just promise you won't bully killers that play nice. Play nice with killers that play nice, and don't gen rush. Get the first 2 done and just hang out until killer gets some hooks or a DS is used. Then do another. Pace yourself. If the killer plays nice but still doesn't have a kill when gates are open offer yourself to the killer. Trust me if you made it to exit gates with a killer that played nice you will likely double pip from 3 iri medals (LB, Bene, Chaser) and a silver in Unbroken, so dying doesn't make a difference.
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@Mc_Harty said:
@thesuicidefox My advice would be to swap Resilience with Tenacity.That way you can get away faster on the ground while recovering at the same time. Other then that not bad. Might have to run this build when I get the time.No you need Resil or else you don't have anything to threaten the killer with. Resil makes you do EVERYTHING faster, and it lets you hard counter stuff like Ruin. I will finish a gen in 60 seconds with Ruin up if I can hit 1 in 4 great skill checks. NM + Resil + BT let's you do what I did in the video. Without Resil unhooks are slower and you can't do this stuff to killers.
Try this build guys. Play like you don't care, like you are not scared of the killer, do stuff you would NEVER do as a normal survivor. Do totems right in their face as they chase someone. If they see you they WILL come for you don't flinch. If you flinch then they know you are not a true NM guy and will kill you right away. Make them pull you off, worst case they get you, best case you bodied their Ruin right in their face. If they are mad so what, they can't camp you because game goes fast, and they can't tunnel you because game goes fast. They have to just hook you and shake it off which 99% of killers can't do. You mess with their head when you have no fear.
NO MITHER GIVES YOU HUGE SURVIVOR BALLS Try it.
PS. Maybe I'm not stressing enough, but you don't want to just give yourself to killer unless it's obvious the killer isn't interested. Like don't do the totem if no one else is around, the killer will just hook you and you get nothing for it. If someone else is around do the totem. If the killer takes you that totem is gone. If the killer finds the other guy, keep doing the totem. If they decide to ignore you and chase the other guy, the totem is gone. It's lose-lose for killer they can't make a decision that doesn't result in the loss of that totem. If they slug me and go off to chase the other guy, I will sit, slugged, at that totem, and get myself up. The INSTANT I am up I am doing the totem. But that makes sure the totem, at the very least, lasts longer, so if killer wants a longer game that's the best move he can do. Totem is gone in 60 seconds no matter what though.
I play nice with killers that play nice. If you slug me a lot I will not rush gens, I will just play around and have fun. I'll still do what I should to help my team escape for a 3-1 victory but I won't be a jerk. If you end up being a killer I don't like, you will know what it means to suffer.
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@Mc_Harty said:
Best Mither OP.Side note: I often run No Mither with Leader and Resilience or Unbreakable and Tenacity. The first to complete generators faster and the second to take a hit and crawl away. The later is funny as hell when the killers try to find you.
Yea I was thinking if I ran with a team I would either do Unbreakable or Tenacity instead of Kindred. If you take Leader you can't take BT, and NM+BT is no joke an unstoppable unhook machine. Here: http://xboxclips.com/thesuicidefox/46d027be-a193-4259-9c26-b43c4d8c5744
That was the third time I did that to that guy. It would have been 4 because after the second time he slugged me and left me so I got up, but I had to take a running hit for someone. Because I did this, all of the other 3 got out. Campers ALWAYS take me first like a starving dog serve a juicy pork chop. And the moment they do, there game is borked with Kindred. This guy wanted to camp us, got me first, I took 4 hits (3 of them BT yolo saves that he could not STOP me from doing unless he grabbed me with perfect timing), all 3 other players escaped. GG camping LF.
NM guy is like a timer for the killer. The speed of the timer is dependent on how fast the killers kills me. If they are slow, the game is slow. If they are fast, the game is fast. I play super optimally because I'm not scared of the killer, and I will MAKE THEM kill me if I'm doing something they don't want me to do. I can sponge hits for my team, and if the killer wants to slow the game down they will slug me.
Bro I get hooked right in front of a running gen a killer kicks and runs off, and when I'm save I just casually walk over and start doing it again. If the killer wants me to stop they have to come get me while my team is doing a gen on the other side of the map. I will make them come kill me at that gen and if they don't then a gen pops and they don't even get me. That game there were 2 gens left, but most of the gens on the map were 50% so it only took them another 40 seconds to get the gates open after I died.
Trust me, this build will eat every resource the killer has to extend games and force the game to end when killer kills NM guy.
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@Master said:
As a killer I will always avoid chasing the DS pleb for obvious reasons. If a no mither guy jumps in front of me, a dream comes true tbh.You wouldn't be saying that if you were chasing one of the other 2 for a minute and I jump in front of you and they get away. When you put me on a hook, a gen will pop (2 if it was the first chase). I do it again, and again. At some point you REALLY want to catch the guy so you slug me. I get up and can keep doing it. If I REALLY want to be a dick to killer, if I can survive to power the gates and everyone else gets out, I'll take a hit while he chases them out the gate. I'll crawl away somewhere, if they don't have Deerstalker or Whispers they won't find me. Then I let myself bleed out. I'm dead, but no thanks to killer and they get 0 points for me. So what I died I'm NM guy, that's what he is there to do. It's like the biggest slap in the face to killers when the NM guy dies and they get nothing for it. Or even better, everyone has escaped it's just me in dying. I let myself bleed out to a PIXEL, then get up. Make killer chase me until they get a hit, at which point I just bleed out instantly.
You think obsession can be a jerk? Wait until someone hits you with a true NM build.
@Master said:
Yes you can make the DS guy not waste his DS, but as a killer I actually never want him to use DS. In fact, I will try to kill the no mither guy ASAP in order to only have 3 survivors anymore and the NM guy can be killed quicker cus 1 hit.If you kill me ASAP then gens will get rushed by my team. By the time you've killed me gates are powered. You fell right into my trap and took the bait, just like many other killers have done since I've been using this build. You think you are doing the right thing by tunneling me to death, but you are just making my team gen rush SUPER HARD. If and when you get hit with this you will see what I'm talking about.
Had a game last night against a Huntress with NOED on Lery's. She slugged the obsession and got the other 2 on hooks. I managed to get a door open then came running to save my team. Now, this is important to state, I messed up HUGE by fast vaulting a window I meant to quiet vault, and she saw me and I didn't make it to the first guy. But then DS guy had Unbreakable and takes hatch as we all die on hooks. Again, I made a huge error here BUT if I didn't, everyone but me would have escaped. I don't care about NOED, I have NM. I will just run up to a hook and make a save. If she doesn't hit ME down I will do it to the other one. If she hits me down the other one gets the rescue, then when she goes to hit her she has BT on. If the guy I saved first had BT, everyone gets out except me. Again I messed up and she got 3 of us, but it would have been just me if I jumped through the window right.
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@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
Again, it sounds like you’re playing against really stupid and terrible Killers if you’re able to consistently pull off something that difficult and suicidal. Besides, why take one hit when you can, I dunno, not run No Mither and make that strategy a minimum of twice as effective by making yourself able to take a minimum of double the hits?Sounds like I'm playing stupid but trust me I am playing very smart. Survivors don't get this either, they see me with NM and then I die first they go "Why NM? You're bad you died LOL" When they don't even realized they escaped 2 chases from the killer, or got saved on a hook, because I have big survivor balls with NM and will just do stuff the killer can't stop me from doing unless they pay attention to me.
I can do totems right in their face as they chase someone. If you are being chased by a killer and the see me on the totem, what do you think a killer will do? I will make them come ALL THE WAY TO ME and grab me off the totem. I will do gens right next to the killer in a chase. If even for a moment they acknowledge me, the guy they were chasing gets away. I don't even have to always take a hit, I just do things in front of the killer to force them to come to me. I will sabo an event hook right in front of a killer to make them pay attention to me. If the killer chooses to ignore me guess what? Totems gone, hooks gone, gens done, or you give me a hook. Those are your choices as killer when I'm in your game. You want that guy, no you get me unless you want me to kill your Ruin then sure, keep chasing the guy.
Does it work every game? No, not when I'm solo, but it works enough that it's worth it. Another example of things you can do with big NM balls. LF chasing me around Ironworks. I drop the unsafe pallet near the window and stand there. LF mindgames HIMSELF for 20 seconds with chainsaw trying to get me to jump. But I am NM guy, I will just stand there until he chainsaws me. A normal survivor is looking to escape and live, they will jump and try to mindgame the killer. I do nothing but stand there and wait for the hit. Killers NEVER realize this and waste tons of time trying to mind game someone that is just waiting to die. This is the power of NM.
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@Mister_Holdout said:
You're putting way too much stock into your teammates.That's what Kindred is for. If I'm solo the moment I go on the hook they start to play super optimally, even at mid ranks. At high ranks it's like telling everyone to gen rush when they see me hooked. I also almost always get saved while 1 is in a chase and 1 finishes a gen. It's like clockwork.
@Mister_Holdout said:
It might work against the lower tier killers. Probably not so much with the high tier killers.It works against good killers too. You have to be more selective when you take a hit, you need to take the right hits at the right time to save someone from death.
@Mister_Holdout said:
When I play Nurse, survivors have a hard time doing gens. Because I'm usually downing people pretty quick. It's not uncommon for me to have three people on the ground at once.You can't do that to me. If I eat your blink on the obsession, and you leave me, I will get up. If I'm on a team I will run Unbreakable instead of Kindred and I get up faster. Every time you slug me I get to body block another teammate.
NM guy is making it so that no one dies before he does. Killer is going to want to kill anyone but NM guy first because NM guy is an easy kill. Again if I take the right hits, then doors are powered and everyone has 3 hooks left, but I'm dead.
Look at it this way. If you are an obsession that's like telling the killer "you can never catch me". If you are NM that's like telling the killer "you will ONLY catch me." NM guy is the guy that isn't scared of the killer at all. Nothing the killer does should make you flinch as NM guy, and because of that you are impossible to mind game. You can just do what you want.
I'll be mid-chase with a killer around some jungle gym, and while they are mindgaming the pallet I just start doing the gen. Takes them a good 5 seconds to realize what I'm even doing. Nothing pisses of a killer more than a guy that isn't scared of you and will just do stuff right in front of you.
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@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@thesuicidefox said:
If you are in an SWF group you can probably do better with Empathy or something since you can coordinate, the point is Kindred coordinates random survivors to be more like groups. I've been running this build for 20 games now, people act WAY different when you run Kindred and are hooked.You are also still not getting it. I can take 3 hits. If all of those hits were on obsession, and each one would have wasted DS, well I'm dead (shocker), gates are powered, killer technically caught obsession 3 times but they have 0 hooks and DS is still in play. It will be REALLY hard to kill anyone else at that point, if you hook anyone you have to hard camp for a while which means survivors can make a few attempts, and if they have BT that's 1k on NM guy and 3 escape.
If it takes a Killer five gens to smack and hook 3 times then you are going against atrociously bad Killers.
SMH. Dude. Killer is chasing SOMEONE ELSE. But at the end of a chase instead of getting that guy, he gets me. If killer gets greedy and wants the guy I can keep taking hits until I bleed out (which is like 20 minutes if I keep getting up) or he hooks me. I force the killer to tunnel me first so that everyone else has 3 hooks and DS still when there is maybe 1 gen left to do. How do you not understand how powerful that is?!?
If I do my job right when it counts, then killer can't mori anyone when gates are powered even if he won chases, because his reward at the end of every chase was ME.
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@pauloandrade22 said:
I prefer to no be seen by the killer at all with no mither and its suprisingally usefull to actually juke and evade killers. its quite strong.No you are doing it wrong. Killers don't want you unless they can't catch other people. If the game goes on and gens get done, NM and obsession become bigger targets, and together they can extend a single chase to the entire game as long as the other 2 survivors just double up gens. Ruin and all that doesn't matter when 2 people on a gen and 2 are in a near infinite chase with the killer (unless they want the free hook on NM). I've just stood around out in the open, killer sees me when chasing someone and continues to chase. They don't want me they want that guy, and by letting me go they think they can get that guy. If I wanted I can make it so they don't get that guy by taking a hit. This is the power of NM.
If killers don't catch people they get flustered and start to do really toxic stuff. With NM you can appease them by letting yourself get hooked, 1 step closer to death. You can also punish the toxic stuff, since Kindred counters camping (for solo play) and NM + BT makes you a unhooking TANK that ensures people get off the hook and away and the killer can't do anything about it. NM + Resil means that if killer doesn't take you then gens get rushed in under a minute (if you want).
Having a NM guy is like danging some bait in front of the killer and saying "if you play nice this guy is yours at the end of the game". Killers relax a bit when they see NM (honestly they shouldn't, you could be really toxic with this build) and are less likely to do stuff like camp or tunnel players.
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If you are in an SWF group you can probably do better with Empathy or something since you can coordinate, the point is Kindred coordinates random survivors to be more like groups. I've been running this build for 20 games now, people act WAY different when you run Kindred and are hooked.
You are also still not getting it. I can take 3 hits. If all of those hits were on obsession, and each one would have wasted DS, well I'm dead (shocker), gates are powered, killer technically caught obsession 3 times but they have 0 hooks and DS is still in play. It will be REALLY hard to kill anyone else at that point, if you hook anyone you have to hard camp for a while which means survivors can make a few attempts, and if they have BT that's 1k on NM guy and 3 escape.
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@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
Here’s a better idea:Time your Dead Hard so that the Killer misses his lunge on the guy and bait him into going for you. That way you’ve helped the guy out without immediately forcing yourself to die. You may both get to live. Plus it stalls much better than just immediately suiciding to save a dude.
No see, if killer hooks me because of Kindred my whole team will optimize. If we are a group were are even more optimized because we can talk to each other too. I can sit on the hook until just before phase 2, and everything will get done really fast. Totems will go gens will pop. You can see people coordinating even though they are all solo players. Where NM fails is when other survivors take hits for NM guy, when they should just let killer take the hook. If he does it's good for everyone. If not, it's still good I can get myself up and do gens. I can sponge 3 hits that would be a hook for other survivors, I basically make it so killer can't get any first hooks on other players. If gens go really fast, by end game killer has 3 hooks and all of them are me. DS is still in play. Some important pallets are still there (NM can take a hit that you normally would use a pallet to stop), which wouldn't have been if I didn't take hits. I get 3 hits to take away from killer, and +1 for every time they leave me slugged. If they were chasing obsession and REALLY wanted him they will do it. I've had killers just leave me so much lately.