thesuicidefox
thesuicidefox
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Hag because Ruin. She is a harder killer to learn, you have to know when to chase and when to let them go, where to put traps for greatest effectiveness, and how to maintain an area of control over survivors. Clown is a lot more straight forward, you just chase and throw bottles to slow them down. But Hag is ultimately stronger.
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@Dr_Trauts said:
Power role in sims is different to power role in dead by daylight. Becuase they are 2 totally different games. The term "power role" in sims IS the god-like thing that you describe. In dbd, it is the single character with more power than the 4 opposing characters will little power. The reason they are the power role in dbd is cause theres only 1 of them aganst 4 surivors, hence it being the power role.Except that if you give one side more power than the other the game is not BALANCED. Killers are not meant to be more powerful, even though it's an asymmetrical game. They are meant to be the AGGRESSOR or the ACTOR, while survivors are the DEFENDERS or ACTEE's. You can't have a power role in the versus game and call it balanced.
@Dr_Trauts said:
If you think your right dude than whatever, i guess its just everyone else thats wrongI am right because I actually studied game design in my masters program and worked in UX/QA/game design internships. I read books on the subjects, wrote papers on the subject, DID ACTUAL WORK IN GAME DEV. Killer is not a power role, people need to stop calling it that. Power role implies that the role is in charge of the game and dictates the flow of the game. Killer is NOT in charge of the game and DOES NOT dictate the flow of the game inherently, they have to earn that through the tactics/strategies they employ and through skillful play, just like any other multiplayer versus game. It's not just given to them like it is in games like Sims which have an ACTUAL power role.
1000 years ago everyone believed the plague was caused by "bad air" or was an act of God. But just because that's what everyone believed does not make it true, as we know the plague was caused by a germ spread through rats.
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I think it's an acceptable tactic. The only time it gets really annoying is when they 1) camp the slug, or 2) drop reset until they find both of you. Drags out the game unnecessarily and just wastes time. It's honestly surprising to see how many killers think survivors will fall for that, like I'm not going to heal the guy/let the guy heal me if it means we both die.
I flat out give hatch nowadays and still double pip. If I slug for the 4k (or more likely to catch the other guy for my BBQ stack) I completely leave the slug and go kick gens or something. A good chunk of the time I will just find the guy, if not they come save their friend because I'm not being a douche. I'll make my rounds to all the gens, about a minute, then come back to the slug. If he's still down and I find him I'll just take the hook. A lot of times I can still even catch the guy before they find hatch, but again I double pipped so I don't care as much. I care more about my BBQ stack than a 4k.
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It doesn't matter because survivors will still know all the totem locations. Just move over 1 or 2 tiles and you will find it, it will be even more consistent than before.
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IMO time outs don't actually work. They just push players away and it doesn't make them stop quitting.
How about a consecutive match bonus of some kind? Extra BP, extra shards, free offerings? I feel like that sort of thing works better.
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IMO Rancor makes being the obsession plenty scary. Also Dying Light.
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I think it was @Peanits that said a good end game build for Trapper is Remember Me and Iri Stone. Put a trap at the gate and even if they disarm it it will open while they open the gate.
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The Nurse add-on makes her basically a Hag. Maybe if it was in addition to her normal power it would be good but if she couldn't blink like normal I feel like this would hurt more than help.
I think a better pink add-on for Nurse would be to make her blinks silent, or at least they can only be heard within close range.
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@NuclearBurrito2 said:
@thesuicidefox said:
@NuclearBurrito2 said:
And the fact that you can pip despite losing or depip despite winning is irrelevant, pips are to assist with match making, which cares more about contribution than outcome. (or in otherwords if you don't do very many gens, get hooked twice but escape anyways then you may have won but you haven't shown that you are ready for more skilled players, while if you do every gen and win most of your chases but then get hocked and facecamped right at the end then dispite your loss you showed that you are still worthy of higher ranks (with probably a better team to let you escape more))Right which is why if you do all that stuff to pip but still die the game considers it a "win" and you rank up, where if you don't do that stuff but escape you "lose" and therefore rank down.
Pipping is the win condition because stuff like this can happen. If the game went purely by kills/escapes then you would get screwed out of "wins" specifically because of bad luck or because of bad teammates.
######### are you talking about. The game does not say you win just because you piped. Instead it shows that you are dead/sacrificed, that you lost your item ect ect ect too bad so sad try again next time
The fact you think this way is why you get all pissy about stuff like hatch or SWF in other threads because to a player like you, only a 4k is a win.
If you rank up you won. PERIOD. Just like any other game, you rank up if you win, and rank down if you lose. Therefore pip = win conditions. You can make up whatever other rules you want, but that's the way the game determines if you won or lost.
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Re-install? If that doesn't work submit a ticket to BHVR's support team.
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I disagree that Huntress needs wind up add-ons. It helps for sure, but you can do just fine without them. Hag also I don't think needs range add-ons.
Trapper I agree 100% though. He really should be able to carry 2 traps at base.
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@Cymer said:
@thesuicidefox said:
@Dr_Trauts said:
Dude what are you on about. Killer IS the power role. 1 individual with large power against 4 individuals with low power, kind of like quantity over quality to a certain sense. The killer IS the power roleNo its not. Power role means you have total control over the game. Killer does not have this. They are merely an opposing force to survivors, NOT the power role. The fact you think killer is power role says everything about why you feel the way you do about mechanics such as hatch. Killer is not "in charge" of the match in contrast to a REAL power role in a game like Sims where you can control literally everything, and are basically God.
Just because the game is asymmetrical does not automatically make one since a power role.
Stop writing please.
Educate yourself on asymmetrical games, therms like power roles ect.
If you need help, ask in an acceptable manner. People usually likes to help.
Try to be constructive and positive.
Thank you.You guys don't know what a "power role" is, you just toss out the term willy nilly to describe the killer's role in the game.
POWER ROLE means you have total control over the game. Which is why I point to Sim game because that's a power role. You are GOD in those games.
Killer is not GOD in DBD. They are the opposing force to survivors. If you were to describe their "role" it would be the "aggressor" since they are the ones acting on survivors and survivors ultimately have to react to what the killers are doing, ie. the "defender".
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@NuclearBurrito2 said:
And the fact that you can pip despite losing or depip despite winning is irrelevant, pips are to assist with match making, which cares more about contribution than outcome. (or in otherwords if you don't do very many gens, get hooked twice but escape anyways then you may have won but you haven't shown that you are ready for more skilled players, while if you do every gen and win most of your chases but then get hocked and facecamped right at the end then dispite your loss you showed that you are still worthy of higher ranks (with probably a better team to let you escape more))Right which is why if you do all that stuff to pip but still die the game considers it a "win" and you rank up, where if you don't do that stuff but escape you "lose" and therefore rank down.
Pipping is the win condition because stuff like this can happen. If the game went purely by kills/escapes then you would get screwed out of "wins" specifically because of bad luck or because of bad teammates.
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@Mister_Holdout said:
I'm not sure if you read all of my comment because it got layered weird, but I basically said I found it interesting that you would lecture me on Nurse when you don't even play on PC. As I explained, PC and console are two completely different animals. The skill caps are a lot different. PC is where you find the players that really know how to play. Not trying to be snide here, just stating the simple truth.No dude there are really good players on console, just not as many because 1) the population is lower and 2) most players don't put in the time to get better. But trust me when I say there are plenty of really good survivors and killers. Someone had made a post a while ago about playing on all 3 platforms, and he even stated that Xbox is most difficult because it's more SWF and the good players are really good. PC has a higher ratio of bad survivors to good survivors, but because they just have a sheer larger number of players that means more good survivors exist on that platform (along with more BAD survivors). But Xbox (at least) has a better ratio of good to bad survivors, just with a lower population it means there are actually fewer of the good survivors to run into.
It's why I made the point that just because majority of Nurses are bad on console DOES NOT make her a bad killer on console. If you run into a player that put in the time to learn her, she is just as devastating as she is on PC.
And Blinky for the record is one of the best Nurse players ever. Unfortunately, he doesn't stream anymore. But people who followed him knew how good he was. Blinky was an old school Nurse player. He used: BBQ, NC, Whispers, and Shadowborn. But when he went against the depip squad, Blinky threw on Ruin. As good as Blinky was, he knew he would need Ruin to stand a chance. And guess what? He still lost.
So then he doesn't use Ruin except in extreme circumstances which I already said was acceptable. If he used Ruin on Nurse EVERY GAME then he can't be that good of a Nurse player. If he used it rarely, against groups that he knew were going to rush gens, that's a different story.
My Last point. Your view that only weak Nurses use Ruin is misguided.
It does though because she doesn't need it. This is what you keep glossing over. A GOOD NURSE DOES NOT NEED RUIN TO WIN EVERY GAME. Using Ruin on Nurse all the time will indeed make you a weaker Nurse because you are relying on Ruin to slow the game instead of using her incredible power to do it. If you're favorite Blinky doesn't use it most of the time then that kinda proves my point.
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I did it twice to a Nurse in a game. Helped someone escape a chase that was about it.
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@Dr_Trauts said:
Dude what are you on about. Killer IS the power role. 1 individual with large power against 4 individuals with low power, kind of like quantity over quality to a certain sense. The killer IS the power roleNo its not. Power role means you have total control over the game. Killer does not have this. They are merely an opposing force to survivors, NOT the power role. The fact you think killer is power role says everything about why you feel the way you do about mechanics such as hatch. Killer is not "in charge" of the match in contrast to a REAL power role in a game like Sims where you can control literally everything, and are basically God.
Just because the game is asymmetrical does not automatically make one since a power role.
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@NuclearBurrito2 The reason every player can win/lose independently is because of the asymmetrical design of the game. Since you can't directly compare one side to the other they have to go by an independent win/loss condition, which is the pip.
You are also ignoring the fact that you can pip even if you get 0 kills or die, just like you can depip even if you get kills or escape (though since kills/escapes CONTRIBUTE to the win condition this is a bit harder to do than the former).
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@Mister_Holdout said:
That's funny because I was going to link you that video. But as I thought, these are the guys you get your opinions from. Now I watched this video. And honestly, Zubat did not play terrible. His blinks were still pretty accurate. But there were two things I noticed:And I actually do not get my opinion from other people. I get my opinion from my own experiences, and these guy back it up with their experiences/opinion. Like I said, I've played God tier Nurses ON CONSOLES that did not use Ruin and they bodied us. And yes those games had very good survivors, me included. We got gens done but not fast enough to get to the gates. Those games ended up being hatch games and if someone hatched it was either because the killer just kind of let them or because they got really lucky (I was one of those survivors to get hatch because I was lucky she didn't know where the hatch was).
- Zubat is obviously used to range add ons. That's part of why he missed some of his blinks. Not that it mattered anyway. He was able to quickly follow up and down the survivor. That's not "playing REALLY bad"
- It seemed to me the gen rush was getting to him. When you get pressured really hard, mistakes are more likely to happen. This is a natural phenomenon.
It is playing bad though, look how many blinks he missed. Whether you want to blame the add-ons or not, he was messing up A LOT. If he had messed up even just 50% less they wouldn't have gotten to the exit gates. Regardless he still got the job done without Ruin.
Lastly, it's worth pointing out that those weren't even good survivors. They played a lot worse than Zubat did. How do I know? Because most of them weren't even looking behind them! Any decent survivor on PC knows that you have to look behind you in order to anticipate which direction the Nurse is coming from and how far away she is. You can't reliably mind game a Nurse without looking behind you. These survivors were just using their Dead Hard without even looking behind them.
If Zubat faced skilled survivors, he would have had a MUCH harder time. I've played enough Nurse on PC to be able to recognize good survivors.
Yes those survivors weren't amazing, but that doesn't mean that if Zubat was hitting blinks and not messing up that he would still get gen rushed. It was a pretty close game all around. If the survivors were better then he would have lost PURELY because he messed up as much as he did. If they were good survivors and he didn't mess up then the outcome would have more or less been the same. Nothing you said here proves that he NEEDED Ruin.
Woah woah there pal. Where did you get the idea that using Ruin means you're a weak Nurse player?
Because that would mean Marth and Blinky Bill are Weak Nurses. And for the record, Blinky did have Ruin when he faced off against the depip squad.I mean consistently using Ruin on Nurse. I can understand putting it on for games where you see 4 toolboxes or something, but if you use it ALL THE TIME then yes, it means you are a weak Nurse player because she just doesn't need it, flat out. She can completely dominate teams without Ruin, she is really the only killer that can do this consistently if you are good enough. IDK which match was Blinky versus Depip squad (I probably watched it but dunno who this person is), but I'm going to go out on a limb and say they powered through the Ruin as if it weren't even there OR found the totem super fast (because this was the case 90% of the time when a killer had Ruin). Therefore it stands to reason that the game would have progressed more or less the same even if he did not have Ruin.
Also Marth does not use Ruin on Nurse AFAIK. And a lot of other YT'ers that play Nurse often don't use Ruin. Again IDK who this Blinky guy is, but it honestly sounds to me like he's not THAT great of a Nurse player if he is always using Ruin. IDC what else you say about him, as a Nurse you don't need to rely on Ruin.
@Mister_Holdout said:
And as I told the other guy, those skill checks become a lot harder to hit when you have a Nurse breathing down everyone's neck. In most cases, at least one or two survivors branch off and go look for Ruin.Not true. It doesn't make a lick of difference to good survivors. The only thing they would do if they felt threatened would be stop doing the gen and hide/run, which is independent of the effects of Ruin. If survivors mess up skill checks when you get closer chances are they aren't good survivors.
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@Manta said:
I definitely think an abandoned prison would work well. You can play with height, open and confined areas- even extra areas unlocked by powered gensYes I was gonna say this too. A prison would be a great map for DBD.
Another good map would be a graveyard. With grave stones and everything.
One more, how about a underground military bunker of some sort. Think Area 51 but instead of aliens it was something else more horror-based. Maybe biological weapon gone wrong (ie. zombies).
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@NuclearBurrito2 If we look at any other game, you "rank up" when you win and "rank down" when you lose. Therefore, pipping is the win condition. Not escapes or kills. Those are your objectives but that's not how you actually win a game. You can get 0k/die and still rank up, or "win", just as you can get kills/escape and still rank down, or "lose".
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@PigNRun said:
@thesuicidefox said:
This only works against dumb survivors. I've seen killers try this and I've never fallen for it or see someone else fall for it.However I do have a good alternate use for Insidious and it's on Spirit. Since one of her big mindgames is to stand still you can use Insidious while it looks like you are phase walking to screw with survivors. You have to use Prayer Beads with it, but I found that when you phase walk Insidious still procs on the husk. So if you stand still for about a second before using phase walk, the husk will gain Insidious while you are moving around. I've messed around with this and it can be very effective but it's not easy to do. I want to experiment more with it at some point in the near future.
Doesnt Insidious lose its effect when using/charging your power?
Not for Spirit. It actually continues to count down to the proc while you charge and walk around because it applies to the husk not to the killer directly. However, you do need to wait a second or so before phasewalking because it will only proc about a second before your phase walk ends because of the timing.
My idea is to use Insidious and Prayer Beads. While in a chase I will stand still, then I have the option to stay that way OR phase walk. Survivors has no idea if I am phase walking or standing there, and if they don't have sight on the husk they might not even realize I'm still around. You could also do something where you hook a survivor, phase walk behind a nearby wall, let Insidious proc, then the moment they make the save you phase walk back to the hook and catch them healing because they didn't even know you were around. It's quite devilish actually, but it's super hard to do right. Very easy to mess up the mind game and give away what you are doing, or mistime the phase walk so that your husk only has Insidious for like a second.
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I play for pips too. I only play really hard to escape if I find a good item or to deny the killer a 4k, just so then it's like the group "won".
@NuclearBurrito2 said:
######### is up with this community.I play to win
Then that means you play for pips, because pips are how the game defines a win. Escapes/kills are not actually wins as defined by the game. They contribute to wins, but are not the sole condition of what a win is. Not to say you can't play to escape/kill, just that it's not technically a win. If they were then you could set any goal for yourself and call that a win. "I found all the totems" or "I hit everyone with Third Seal". Those are not wins, they are imaginary win conditions, just like escapes/kills.
@Eveline said:
Funny how most of the killers I encounter want that 4k so badly lol. No wonder they are frustrated with the game.Exactly. Maybe if they played to the game's actual win conditions they would have a lot more fun and be a lot less frustrated. It's like saying as survivor "I win if I get chase by the killer but never get hit". Well the moment you get hit you're probably going to curse out the game and make all kinds of excuses.
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This only works against dumb survivors. I've seen killers try this and I've never fallen for it or see someone else fall for it.
However I do have a good alternate use for Insidious and it's on Spirit. Since one of her big mindgames is to stand still you can use Insidious while it looks like you are phase walking to screw with survivors. You have to use Prayer Beads with it, but I found that when you phase walk Insidious still procs on the husk. So if you stand still for about a second before using phase walk, the husk will gain Insidious while you are moving around. I've messed around with this and it can be very effective but it's not easy to do. I want to experiment more with it at some point in the near future.
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@Mister_Holdout said:
Just curious. Do you play on console or PC?I play on Xbox, where people say Nurse is bad but she's really not. She's harder to learn no doubt, but she's still as strong as she is on PC. It's just that people don't want to put in the time to learn how to play her so you rarely ever run into a God tier Nurse on console. But I have, and trust me when I say she is not bad on console. Furthermore, these Nurse players didn't use Ruin and would still body us. They used all tracking perks (NC/BBQ/Shadowborn/Whispers usually).
Also, I'm not sure why you're dismissing my point that Ruin is worth a perk slot.
Because if you are a GOOD Nurse you don't need it.
I already told you that Ruin is very helpful when facing efficient SWF teams. Without it, you are liable to get gen rushed. If Blinky Bill (one of the top Nurse players) was capable of getting gen rushed, then it can happen to any Nurse.
I can even point you to another Legacy 3 Nurse that will tell you Sally isn't immune to gen rush.
Which I'm not denying, but that doesn't negate my point that if you are good Nurse you can play without Ruin and do just fine.
And lastly, the fact that you mentioned ScottJund basically tells me where you get your opinions from.
ScottJund barely piped against a perkless depip squad.
If you knew about the rest of their games, you would know that only a handful of killers have piped against them while the squad was using perks. And guess what? They were all Nurses using tryhard setups.
That's pretty scary when you think about it.I do know about the rest of their games. I know that Freddy was actually the killer most likely to pip against them, which proved how OP Self Care is against him.
But again, Scott pipped against them without Ruin. Whether you want to nitpick the results, that's what went down. I watched the game, and he was basically slugging like crazy to slow the game. PROOF that you don't NEED Ruin if you are a good killer. Which he was playing Huntress, a killer I feel needs Ruin more than most, so if he can do that with Huntress then a GOOD Nurse player can definitely do it as well because Nurse is more powerful than Huntress.
And what's even scarier is that the depip squad contains members who aren't that good at survivor. You can tell Marth is one of the weak links. Baefu on the other hand is quite good. The one thing they had in common was their ability to rush gens. Imagine if you had a depip squad comprised of experienced survivor mains. Players that can play survivor at a really optimal level. I don't think a Nurse would be able to beat that.
Nurse can definitely beat it, she is probably the only killer that can WITHOUT Ruin. Look at the few tournaments that were done for DBD. Who was picked all the time? Nurse. Why? Because Nurse is super powerful.
Case and point Zubat just posted a video of him playing as Nurse WITHOUT Ruin, and yes while they got to exit gates he was also playing REALLY bad. He was missing blinks constantly, but he still got the 4k without Ruin. Had he been on point, they would have been lucky to get 3 gens done. No Ruin.
You keep trying to say she NEEDS Ruin, and I'm saying SHE DOES NOT NEED IT. If you want to use Ruin on Nurse that's fine, but that just means you are a weak Nurse player. Zubat could have put on Ruin to make up for his poor performance, but it doesn't change the fact that if he hit even half the blinks he messed up the survivors wouldn't have finished all the gens.
@Laakeri said:
BBQ, Whispers, Nurses and ShadowbornYou could use Ruin instead of Shadowborn, but you learn to pressure much faster as Ruin wont be carrying you vs average survivors who cant hit great skill checks.
Yes this exactly. Ruin is only going to work against average survivors, as top survivors will just hit great skill checks and/or destroy the totem in the first minute of the game. Nurse is strong enough she can forgo this for other perks, as she should dominate average survivors anyway. If you use Ruin on Nurse, and rely on it to slow the game, then truth be told you aren't a good Nurse. Average at best.
There are many top tier Nurse players that play without Ruin and dominate even against good survivors. PC or console, doesn't matter.
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Personally I would rather they just limit DS to the obsession, and if there are more instances of the perk in the group it just makes the skill check bigger by x% for each additional DS. A single DS from the obsession you can play around and such, but those non-obsession DS's can really REALLY hurt, more than the obsession one IMO. There is no reason a non-obsession should be allowed to use DS. And if the skill check is bigger it means that the obsession is more likely to hit it, which is ultimately what you want for the group. When the obsession misses their DS that's a huge deal, so making it easier to hit would still benefit the group.
If you have to earn it or if it has some drawback like inflicting Broken won't change the fact that when someone hits you with it, it completely negates your momentum. From just 1 player this is enough to sway the game, and from 2 or more it's basically a guaranteed loss. Adding all this extra stuff won't fix that, you have to just take it away from non-obsessions to make it actually fair.
"But I'm solo, you're saying I might not get to use my perk?" Yes. If you want to use it then equip more obsession perks to make sure you are the obsession.
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No, but you are a GOOD killer if you can consistently win without Ruin/NOED.
Also, IMO Nurse is a killer that doesn't NEED Ruin, but if you use it on Nurse it doesn't automatically make you a bad Nurse, just not a good Nurse if that makes sense. And I'd argue the same point for Billy and possibly Spirit to a lesser degree.
In fact the only top tier killer I feel needs Ruin is Huntress, because she is the only real slow killer in the game and thus needs that extra map pressure to make up for it.
However if you run Ruin and NOED together then yes, you are probably a bad killer.
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Trapper actually, because stepping into a trap terrifies me.
Myers is up there too.
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Is that a flashlight in your pocket or are you happy to s.... OH GOD MY EYES IT'S A FLASHLIGHT!
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@Tsulan said:
Just play like nobody's watching.Or pretend survivors are in their underwear.
thinks of Kate and Feng
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@Hintboy said:
Thanks for the feedback I was thinking of running Lithe with one of these but didn’t know which one was stronger. Btw does me running Lithe change anything about what you previously said?No Lithe is the exhaustion perk you want to use if you do the DWM/QQ combo. If you run Distortion I would say Sprint Burst is better, but you can run Lithe too. Since it's not a chase perk the exhaustion perk you run doesn't really matter.
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@Dr_Trauts said:
Yeah but thats the whole point surely. If the team has worked that badly together to get into that situation why shouldnt it be like that? Because the killer has the power role and in that situation the killer has the power role as intended. The hatch makes the last survivor equal if not more so than the killer at that point, which is why the hatch mechanic is ridiculousKiller is not the power role. Power role is the DM in D&D, or the player in a Sims games. Power roles have total control over the game. Killer does not have total control over the game, they are merely a force against the survivor's role.
@NuclearBurrito2 said:
Btw the ACTUAL survivor WR is about 40%. So thus a 1v1 needs to be Killer sided in order to be fair with that winrateUhhhh.. wouldn't that mean the hatch should be survivor sided since they have LESS of a chance to win? If a survivor has a 40% win rate, that means killer has a 60% chance, which means killer has the advantage.
@NuclearBurrito2 said:
Ok so again. If the survivor and Killer both haven't necessarily proven themselves then shouldn't endgame 1v1 be a 50/50? Cuz right now the hatch is in the survivors favorYou even say it should be 50/50. If you make it killer sided you just push it to 30/70 or better for killer. Also hatch is NOT survivor sided, it's pretty equal. In fact I'd argue that because killer has free rein of the map and are faster than survivors, they actually have the advantage because they are more likely to find the hatch first. What you are talking about is hatch STANDOFF which does favor the survivor, but that's an issue that is universally agreed to be bad for the game and needs a fix. The hatch itself though is just fine.
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@PhantomMask20763 said:
That actually sounds like fun. I have a ton of ultra rare and very rare addons on my freddy right now since I dont use then too often but I need to give this build a try! That is once I get a lerys offering...Yea I wouldn't do this on any map but Lery's. Even Game, because there's not enough stuff to hide behind on that map and not enough crows to make SFTS useful. It's Lery's or bust.
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I just want to see the Freddy rework. The anticipation is killing me inside. We need to see something at this point. I don't even feel like Freddy needs a rework as much as he just needs big QOL improvements, I just can't wait any longer to see what they plan to do.
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@Hintboy said:
Scratch that I meant distortionLOL I was about to say WTH is this guy smoking?
DWM + QQ is a really strong combo, but it requires you to be good with window loops (T walls and such). You also have to manage the timers because they aren't the same. Definitely the more skill-oriented of the two options you present, but IMO it's stronger than Distortion.
Distortion is a lot easier to use but worthless in a chase. And if you are up against Freddy, or a killer with aura reading add-ons, they will eat your tokens super fast. However it does have the benefit of letting you know when a killer has these add-ons, AND it can help you identify killer aura perks like Nurse's or Territorial or Bitter Murmur.
If you want to be stronger in a chase, take DWM/QQ. If you want to play stealthy and suck at avoiding BBQ take Distortion.
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If 1 person quits I go super easy on the other 3 and give them a lot of freebies. Only once they do enough gens to spawn hatch do I start to play normal. I'll let one hatch, chosen mostly at random based on who seemed to have the worst luck.
If 2 or 3 people DC I just farm with whoever is left. I hate farming but I'm not going to just kill these guys because it's super lame and unfair. Even if I gave freebies I will still body them. So I farm and let them all go.
If 4 people DC then I turned off the game, lay in my bed and cry myself to sleep.
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Just FYI, cats are not swatting at the air. They are throwing up gang signs. If you see your cat doing this a lot, move to a new neighborhood.
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I have a build I have yet to fully try, but I have experimented with the key components and think it would be a great spoopy build to do...
HIDE & SEEK
-Monitor & Abuse
-Spies From The Shadows
-Ruin
-Haunted Grounds
-Red Paint Brush
-Pill Bottle
-Offer Lery'sThis is a spoopy super stealth build. M&A with paint brush gives you 0 TR in DW. PB for extra spoopy-ness. You are slower yes, but you're not supposed to chase with this build. Rather you sleep a survivor then "sleep stalk" them from a distance, trying to position yourself so they walk into you. With no TR and no red stain you can hide and they have NO idea. You can also follow them until they find another survivor to wake up, and it creates a funny situation where the sleeping survivor is all "he's not around wake me up" but the awake survivor is like "I hear the lullaby he is around" so they meme at each other until the awake survivor finally decides to wake up the sleeping one. Once he does, you swoop in and sleep them both. Lery's is perfect for this because you can sneak around without being seen and there are a lot of blind corners.
Use SFTS to find and track awake survivors, which on Lery's is almost a God tier perk (though I will warn you the birds are very obnoxious and might actually annoy you with how often they pop). Ruin is there to slow the game so you can do your shenanigans, and HG is there to protect Ruin and give you a one shot, which considering your tactics will be extra spoopy. Again Lery's is perfect for these perks because it has the most hidden totem spawns of any map.
Like I said I haven't actually done this full build, but I've used the parts all on their own and I imagine it would be a lot of fun for both killer and survivors. It also could, potentially, be very effective as even veteran players might not know how to counter it. The only counter I can think of is if a survivor has Calm Spirit AND Spine Chill, but those are rare so I think it should work more often than not.
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TBH I hope you do get banned. Quitting just because you get a map you don't like to play is so selfish, especially when you sit there and list half the maps in the game. Just man the ######### up and play it. If you take an L you take an L. It's just a game.
Sorry not sorry.
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@Tsulan Regarding the whole "survivor hides all game and does nothing to help then takes hatch" situation...
It's a legit strategy. A lame strategy, but still legit. In the same category as 4 man slugs or basement Insidious LF, in that it's lame but not going to be very effective. I honestly have not seen players do this at high ranks because, well, these players don't rank up by doing nothing. They escape, they get BP, but at the end of the day without doing gens or making saves they won't rank up very fast if at all. They will get iri Unbroken and bronze Benevolence. This means in order to safety pip they need bronze Evader which requires at least 1 chase or for them to hide near the killer. In order to pip they will need iri Evader which requires a LOT of chases or hiding near the killer almost all game. Either scenario they risk getting caught.
But this situation doesn't mean that hatch is a bad thing, much in the same way that basement Insidious LF doesn't prove that camping is a bad thing. Would the game be better without it? Yea probably. But really how often do you see these tactics? Not often. Most survivors will actually play the game to some degree to get BP or to rank up, or just because by helping even a little they are more likely to escape. Sorry but as lame as it might be, it's no reason to remove hatch from the game.
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@OrionsFury4789 said:
Well ok, if you can stockpile ebony mori then someone could have over 200 easy and if they CHOSE to play them every match starting right now then counting actual events and BP events coming up it would be easy to keep that cycle going for quite some time and even switch between killers who have them stockpiled as well, some people may have over 100 on multiple killers . It's very possible to keep that streak going for months of nothing but playing Ebony mori , that's the relevance to your post you say it's impossible to play them every match , yea nd so is a syringe insta heal but if you stock up big and start using them you would get enough in bloodweb and through events to keep that cycle going for quite some time before it actually ran out. My original post was to you talking about Ebony mori and about how it's your opinion that swf is unfun to play against not everyone feels the same as youHe is also ignoring the fact that you can alternative between different killers that have mori's and use the BP earned those games to keep getting Ebony's on your main killer. I currently have +30 on my p3 Spirit. I have something like +20 on Huntress, +10 on Billy/Nurse/Trapper/Hag (Spirit/Huntress I have dumped the most BP into, these characters I only have dumped enough BP to get perks I want). The only character I don't have that many moris is Freddy because I used them a lot when I was first playing him, and I haven't dumped ANY BP into him for months (ok that's a lie, I did buy maybe 4-5 blood webs shortly after Legion just to get Discordance and more blocks). If you alternate and just take that BP earned and dump it into your main killer, ON TOP OF playing survivor (which I can do without any add-ons or items using WGLF and consistently get +20k per game live or die), then yes it is VERY easy to maintain an infinite supply of Ebony's for a particular killer. Like super easy, barely an inconvenience.
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@Mister_Holdout You are reiterating points I never actually disagreed with. Ruin IS the perk to slow the game. I'm just making the point that if you are good enough with Nurse, Ruin is not necessary and therefore becomes a wasted perk slot that you could instead use some sort of tracking perk (like Shadowborn) since that is her biggest weakness: finding and tracking survivors.
Ruin/BBQ/NC is a meta build for all killers, so to say it's somehow special on the Nurse is a bit overzealous.
Also regarding depip squad, when they faced @ScottJund 's Huntress he didn't use Ruin and he was the first only to pip against them. So if he can play against Depip Squad without Ruin on Huntress and win, then a God tier Nurse player can DEFINITELY do it too.
You're just talking in circles at this point. I'm not denying Ruin is a great perk. If you want to use it then fine I'm not saying don't. I AM saying that you shouldn't ever really NEED it as the Nurse if you are good enough.
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Sorry playing "perfectly" as killer means that you stopped them from doing 2 gens OR that you legit killed all 4 survivors, meaning that you caught the last guy before they could hatch. If you do neither of these things sorry, you did not play perfectly.
Killers saying "well where is the free kill??" Your free kill is either slugged on the ground or on a hook while the last guy is waiting for him to die. The fact this player isn't coming to make a save makes it a free kill, otherwise he gets saved and you have to catch them again. Do you know how many times I've crawled to a corner to avoid letting the last guy get killed or purposefully jumped into a locker allowing the killer to just hook me FOR FREE so the last guy could POTENTIALLY take the hatch? A lot. A hell of a lot. And I've had it done for me many times as well. It's part of the game, stop asking for free 4k's. You deserve NOTHING, go out and earn it.
I've seen PLENTY of games where the last survivor hasn't even been caught once by the killer. Chases and all, NEVER CAUGHT. You're telling me that you should just get that guy? LOL no. He deserves a CHANCE to escape at the very least. Note that I'm not saying he deserves the ESCAPE, he deserves the CHANCE to escape. Without hatch there is no chance to escape.
EDIT: Case and point https://1drv.ms/v/s!ArDQJhViBOPmlxw9d4QTcRKz-9Wk
The clip starts just after I see the Tapp crouch walking towards shack from the hill, at which point I used phase walk to get close. He was sneaky and went into the basement, I was almost positive of this, but just to be sure I didn't go down there right away until I looked around. I knew where the hatch was, and I knew he didn't (the third guy had JUST died and I walked past it as it opened just before I saw him). I knew that it was IMPOSSIBLE for him to have snuck past me and he had to be either on shack tile or the tile on the other side of the hill. In the time I looked around he could have POTENTIALLY made it to the tile on the other side of shack, but there was no way he moved towards the middle of the map because I would have seen him. And as you can see I catch the dude, BEFORE HE GOT THE HATCH, flat out gave it to him, and still got a double pip with 2 iri and 2 gold. This outcome is actually quite common for me EVEN AT RANK 1, and sometimes I give hatch like I do here or I take the 4k. If he got past me and took it LEGIT, guess what? I'd still totally double pip! So why should I be mad 1 guy got out if I'm still a Merciless Killer?
PS. Sorry for the bad video quality, it seems uploading it to my One Drive made it look like crap. Also this was the day after resets, so there is a good chance all these survivors are rank 1 players (as they are all sub rank 10, some even purple ranks which you can't do that fast after reset unless you no life the game for the entire day).
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YOU DON'T ALWAYS HAVE TO 4K
Like really is it that big of a deal that ONE flippin' survivor escapes? I guarantee the even if you do let them go you will pip, and you have a high chance to double pip. HELL if you didn't try to dilly dally so much you could probably just killed the third guy and catch the last guy before they even find the hatch. I do it all the time. I also will flat out give the last survivor hatch. I don't sit there like some needy child dragging out a game unnecessarily. If I slug the third guy its to go look for the 4th. I make rounds to the gens and check some spots where I think they might be. I don't camp the slug, if they get up cool, the game keeps moving AND I have an idea where they both are. If I come back and the guy is still slugged, I kill him and try to catch the guy before he takes hatch. Most of the time I get them (and then give them hatch anyway), and sometimes they get it legit.
You are making such a big deal of this because you want a 4k and no other reason. That's called being a stubborn #########.
@Cymer said:
Survivors won't attempt to unhook or to pick up slugged teammates they want them to die.Yea that's what you do if you want to hatch. You wait until the other guy gets caught and dies. It's a strategy. If you didn't screw around so much trying to bait them with stupid tactics only an idiot would fall for you wouldn't have such a problem with the hatch. You just want stuff handed to you that you didn't earn. You can sit there and tell me that's not it until you are blue in the face, but at the bottom of it all that's what you are asking for. FREE KILLS.
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Spirit bc 🍑
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1) Devour and Ruin are totally different type of perks. Not sure why you put them into the same category here.
2) NOED is a wasted perk slot on NURSE because they won't get gens done in the same way that Ruin is. And it's because she is strong enough to play without it and it's not going to be a huge problem for her usually .
3) I'm talking from experience. Both as survivor and as killer with Ruin. As survivor, I haven't even been phased by Ruin for some time now. I can power through gens and only lose a little bit of time if any because I can consistently hit great skill checks. And I've been in games, on both sides, where Ruin is still in play yet 3 gens get done super fast. And it's because the survivors in the game are like me, they hit great skill checks. Top tier survivors just don't care about Ruin. It's only effective against lower tier survivors, again in the same way that NOED is. But at the same time if you are a good Nurse then you will catch those survivors super fast anyway, making Ruin a moot perk.
4) Nurse doesn't need Ruin (or NOED) because she is plenty strong without it. You really are better off using tracking perks if you are a good Nurse, because you can win games easily without Ruin. I've done it without Ruin. I've face good Nurses without Ruin that do it. It's just not needed for her. Not saying Ruin can't do work to slow the game, but I am saying that Nurse is strong enough she doesn't need Ruin to slow the game.
5) I actually don't watch any survivor YT/streams. Just killer because watching survivor play is honestly boring AF.
6) "Marth must be a pretty crappy Nurse" LMAO did you really just say this? Marth is one of the best killers I've seen play this game. And it's not just him, Ardetha, Zubat, True. They all play Nurse without Ruin and say that it's not needed on her.
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X gon give it to ya
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Hag 100%
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I play a lot as killer but one thing I want is better sound. It can be so hard to hear with the chase music sometimes.
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@Doc_W__HOLLIDAY said:
Instead of the hatch, just have the exit gates get powered (and exclude the penalty to the gatekeeper emblem).Could also just require hatch lock to be "picked", like a channel to open it. Maybe when there is 1 survivor left the lock "breaks" such that it could be picked. That would solve the hatch standoff too. Then you could also have Broken Keys "pick" the lock in the same way. Simple solution actually.
