thefallenloser
thefallenloser
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@CornMoss said:
IF it runs poorly I hope the PS5 will first of all, let you transfer all your dbd data from PS4 to PS5 (If you bought skins and characters to play) and also it to work better on PS5
It's linked to your PlayStation account, so as long as you're using the same account it should transfer.
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Even if the clothing on some of the females is "revealing," it usually fits their character. With Claudette's new outfit my issue is that it just... doesn't... like at all. It's like a completely different character could be made from that.
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@Ikalx said:
Hmm...I'm not sure you just saying I'm proving the argument makes that a valid statement in any way, shape, or form. Especially since the entire reason the field of view is locked is as a function of the core gameplay. I mean the killer literally plays in first person instead of third for gameplay functionality.
Should the game be made in such a way so that it's accessible to as many people as it can be? Absolutely. But at the same time the same person who said that Motion Sickness is a terrible thing and should completely be able to be countered through any means necessary, also said they didn't want to give up a perk slot for it.
Does that not strike you as arguing in bad faith?
If FOV could be rebalanced in a way that would make it customisable to individual needs while also not affecting gameplay, I'd be absolutely behind that. However, arguing that FOV has no gameplay impact in a game where it clearly forms a crux of the gameplay - i.e. visibility - is arguing in bad faith.
"But at the same time the same person who said that Motion Sickness is a terrible thing and should completely be able to be countered through any means necessary, also said they didn't want to give up a perk slot for it."
When exactly did I say "any means necessary?" I recall saying that it should 100% be an option and NOT require a perk slot to alleviate. Basic accessibility should take priority, as the gameplay implications are pretty small in comparison to the many people who can't physically play killer because of how eye-graining and nauseating it is.
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@Rydog said:
Behaviour has a really alien relationship with game settings. They seem to think that basic things like FOV and brightness -- options that are basic comfort-level things -- should be in-game mechanics. It's really dumb.
Exactly my point. There should be a line between atmospheric and fair and "I literally cannot play the game because I can't see."
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@Ikalx said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1302078#Comment_1302078
I mean...what?
You do realise the perk itself has gameplay implications over and above your motion sickness, right? That's why it's a thing. And yes, I've used the perk myself and had a waaay easier time targeting survivors.
You're trying to have your cake and eat it too.
I'm just trying to figure out whether you realise that or not.
Field of view has gameplay implications in literally every first person game, and there's nothing wrong with that. If the argument is that survivors will lose just a few of their juking options and techs even with the 800 pallets, vaults, and strong loops and perks, that's honestly a pretty weak argument.
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@PigMainClaudette said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1292536#Comment_1292536
Yeah, I've been playing solo for the past 6 months so I don't count SWF.
As for the "There's a perk for that!" argument, all I'm going to say is everyone says the same thing for NoED. And tunnelling. And camping.
I agree that saying just use perk is a terrible justification, but in a sense that's the game we play. Perks modify the game to adapt to a player's preferences.
Imagine if there was a perk to increase sensitivity of the camera.
That'd be an option, I'm sure. The devs fixed it.
FOV should definitely be next.
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@Ikalx said:
They could make Shadowborn a general perk instead though, right?
Although I guess the Wraith is a free killer, and just like a perk like self-care, you could unlock Shadowborn first and put it on everyone...assuming you could survive the motion sickness (or play survivor enough to earn that amount of bloodpoints).
Then that just leaves the issue that you'd be playing with three perks and no motion sickness. Still at a disadvantage by not using all four perks slots. Shadowborn is definitely not a powerful enough effect to warrant a perk slot.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Here’s my thoughts:
Yes greater field of view is more comfortable. Let’s look at Shadowborn. I use this perk semi regularly and the absolute truth is that the perk doesn’t just give a wider FoV, it also eliminates a great deal of survivors ability to hide, and greatly reduces their juking options (you don’t even need to look down to see if they’re hiding by a vault, or just ducked into a corner to try and double back).
Yes, the default FoV is crappy in a lot of circumstances, and a tweak would be nice, but the devs couldn’t go as drastic as making Shadowborn basekit, because it would not be healthy for the game to suddenly have most of the survivors hiding and juking options removed.
"Most of the survivors' hiding a juking options" would only include hiding in corners next to you and directly under you. Survivors can still hide in lockers, dark corners, bushes, etc. Shadowborn isn't THAT powerful and even so not everyone will use it. It would be an option, like 90% of other first person games.
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@PigMainClaudette said:
There have been a lot of times where an increased FoV has actually HURT me and not been beneficial. And I use Monitor and Abuse on quite a few killers, so I have comparisons in every game I play with it. That extra 8 degrees does actually squash a lot of things together, making some things look unnatural. I'm not playing on a small TV either, so there's no arguing that point.
One thing to also consider is that half the killers wear MASKS. This would obscure a lot more vision than the game lets on, and while that is more of a game mechanics vs. lore issue, it's still something to think about.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1292494#Comment_1292494
Ummm, no it isn't. If it WAS then firecrackers would be the most common item in the game.
And all survivors have is information. They are literally playing an INFORMATION GAME and they're not for free. Bond is a teachable, Spine Chill is short range, Premonition is pretty meh and on a cooldown, Object of Obsession is (again) a teachable AND gives the killer info too. Yes, running is an important skill, but outside of that there is nothing to the survivor game except the information you have and how you use it.
The hated "second chance" meta build also uses zero information perks. In general though, outside of OoO the information given by survivor perks is limited at best. Even something like Empathy tells me "Oh, great. This INJURED SURVIVOR is getting chased on the opposite side of the map. Not much I can do there except expect them to go down soon."
And that's fine. If increased field of view messes with you, then my suggestion to make it and option doesn't change anything about it. You'll be able to change it to whatever you're comfortable with.
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@LALYTHIA said:
If this FOV is this game doesn't mesh with you, maybe this isn't your game. Or maybe killer is not your role.
FOV should not be an "option"...a bigger FOV is an advantage for the Killer and everyone would use it. Wider FOV would just become basekit.
Dude, I'm a rank 1 survivor and rank 7 killer, and honestly the only reason I'm not higher is because I can't play killer for more than a few minutes without feeling like I've got a serious eyestrain and headache.
Of course bigger FOV is an advantage. It's an advantage in every game, but it's still a basic accessibility option that's present in pretty much every first person game without penalty to the rest of the player's options. This wouldn't be an issue in the first place if the base FOV was serviceable.
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@ThePetDetective said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1164747#Comment_1164747
-100% agree. At the very least it could be a flashy way to end a match if you don't care about emblems.
-Another whole heart agree.
-This one i sort of agree with in theory, but it messes up a few things. For instance, the only way to get Blood on your Face would be to run tombstone Shape. It's just one of those things where not having it would be stupid. I think the conditions where you can mori just need refining.
-I think broken keys are good where they are. If anything, it should have 15 charges max, if anyone else thinks 10 isn't enough. Or just bring prayer beads.
-I started writing an explanation of how unfair this one could be, but the more i thought about it the more i think it could be interesting. 3 survivors 4 gens done, one of them would have to commit. 2 survivors 3 gens done, one of them has to commit. 1 survivor and the gates closed, its a viable alternate to the exit gates.
-The problem i DO have with the dull/skeleton key ideas you had were the auras. At that point bringing a key in from lobby would be suicide, even with a skeleton key, and unless you know where the hatch will spawn just setting it down wherever at best wastes upwards of a minute when you do find the door. It also ruins all key addons for anything that isn't broken, as whats the point of seeing everyone/the obsession/the killer if they can see you pretty well, at no loss or input from the killer. And if you happen to find one in a chest, no one in their right mind would take it unless they had the incredible improvisation of finding the trapdoor, assessing that it's the only viable option, going to look for a chest, finding a key, and using it, all assuming they can sneak around the killer. And even then they'd have a 15-30 second time to open it where the killer ALREADY knows where the door is. even at a 3 survivor 4 gen situation that wouldn't be a good use of time, unless maybe you were on a bad map with a terrible 3-gen situation.
-This one i can see the thought behind but disagree. Not for gameplay stuff, i think it would make sense if a killer doesn't re-position a survivor before they mori it might be punished, but, for example, the Spirit stabs right through the chest, Ghost Face makes swiss cheese out of them, the Shape slices them up good...the survivor wouldn't survive, even IF the killer suddenly lost grip/got off. It wouldn't make sense and it's honestly such an inconsequential thing that it wouldn't hurt anyone to keep it the way it is.
-This one i agree with, however i think it should be a 30 second-1 minute cooldown rather than indefinitely.
Hope this doesn't come across as rude, i just think moris and keys are both an integral part of the game/tool for each party, but also need some pretty beefy changes to make fun for everyone.
Not rude at all! Your points were articulated well and I totally understand why you think that. Of course these probably shouldn't be taken word for word and put in the game. These were more of brainstorm ideas that would work well as a general idea for change.
Ebony Mori change seems pretty good. It doesn't completely screw survivor teams as long as they can win chases enough to prevent the Mori, though different conditions altogether might be the better alternative.
I feel as though broken keys don't really have much to offer. They look like regular keys (make a different model for broken keys plz) so the killer will probably focus on you, which might have you die really fast, and they're literally completely useless without add-ons. Increasing the amount of charges or giving base aura reading might be fine alternatives since they offer nothing on their own unlike their very rare and ultra rare counterparts.
Maybe an alternative would be to replace the aura while opening with a directions noise?
True, it would be largely inconsequential, though I do think it would be fair to give both survivors and killers a way to counter each others's trump cards in some kind of way. New Mori animations are also something the devs have considered... so maybe a window of time in which the survivor isn't dead in which they can be saved?
With the proposed changes and how it would take a bit of time to open the hatch, having a cool down to use the key after hatch has been closed seems good.
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Because a gun was added to the game but I guess someone didn't know how to add it to make it actually good and so we're stuck with an almost Clown-tier killer.
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@ThePetDetective said:
If you were going to ask for a change, what would you have in mind?
I've always been of the opinion that Ebonies (Cypress and Ivory are fine how they are) should have to have everyone hooked at least once, have the survivor been hooked twice, or both, before you can do it.
As for keys the only real solution to that is to buff a killers ability to find the door, i honestly couldn't think of a justifiable change to how keys function now.
Personally i think Moris are fine if you use them responsibly and keys ive never had too much of an issue with, so I'm just throwin' my hat in the ring.
Cypress Mori should be a basic ability. It does literally nothing to be an offering.
Ivory Mori should be very rare and should activate after hooking at least 2 survivors.
Ebony Mori should activate after hooking all four survivors at least once +1 additonal hook and only be able to kill 2 survivors.
Broken Keys should have the most charges. Something like 30 charges.
Dull Keys should take 30 seconds to open the hatch and reveal the auras of any person w/ the key to the killer within 30 meters.
Skeleton Keys should take 15 seconds to open the hatch and reveal the aura of the person using it within 15 meters.
Moris should be able to be canceled with a pallet stun.
Keys shouldn't be able to open a hatch closed by the killer.
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We all know the Stranger Things chapter was the best chapter in the game. Huge hype, no one saw it coming. TWO survivors, new inside map, great killer.
But then Ghost Face was just... kinda dropped in. No survivor, no map, pretty mid-killer overall.
Why didn't they get the movie rights!?!?!?!?!?!?
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Most likely a latency issue. On the killer's side, you were still outside the locker when he used the Static Blast.
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@kosmi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1154310#Comment_1154310
All of them are just in the service of someone else. Demo to some unknown intedimesional entity and xeno to its queen whic is led only by insticts.
Yet again i said i am even against demo which were only used to as marketing to get more players. How many demo players is there acording to other killers anyway.
Demogorgon has the same pick rate as the Pig.
Also, Bubba was also a servant.
Pig was a servant.
Plague wasn't even violent or ill-minded.
Spirit wasn't violent until she defended herself.
By your logic, like half the killers in the game don't go along with the lore.
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@kosmi said:
Nah i think it would be stupid. Don't see a story reason why would entity get xenomorph into a realm cz as story goes entity is attracted to violence and ill state of mind. If you ask me stranger things was also stupid to get in the story line. They did that to use as marketing to lure more players.
On the other hand if they want to add few killers totaly story unrelated and for fun that is different thing then. But if you ask me i am against demo and xenomorph or any kind space alien things. I would like more of classic horors like demons, ghosts, series killers and ect.
...cz as story goes entity is attracted to violence and ill state of mind.
< *demogorgon and xenomorphs literally rip people's faces off*
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Me likey!
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@Larikal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1146351#Comment_1146351
And also many, many players who were happy veterans of warframe quit bcs of changes and take others with them. There are always 2 sides of coin, its worth to mention also negative sides of changes.
Also sure, i dont doubt that balance changes would bring players back. But also i dont doubt that MANY players who are still active would just quit. Sorry, thats how it always is going, you cant keep everyone happy.
The very same is reason why always (no matter what game or how good balance would be) threads about changes in balance will always be popular - bcs everyone have different expectations. I for example would completly take off hooks and survivors ability to escape, same as pallets and make game more about sneaking and hiding. While someone else would dislike this idea and want to give player crowbar or baseball bat to be able to hit killer (yes, its real, there are people who want this). But guess what - no matter the changes always someone will come back and other one willl just quit playing.
I haven't really seen many people who've left Warframe due to changes, it's more of "I'm bored, taking a break" or "game's too easy/stale."
Anyways, my point still stands with people coming back because of the recent changes.
My point was that simple balance passes that make the game more fun/fair for both sides has the high possibility of keeping current players invested as well as bringing back a few players who've previously dropped the game.
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@Onyx_Blue said:
@thefallenloser yeah I think that's best lol
I would still encourage you to explore different approaches to Clown matches, when you play as him (since that's the only time you are in control of the factors).
Of course! Thanks for your opinions regardless. I'll be looking out for more Clown games as well as playing him a bit more in the future. If I remember, I'll return with my findings to you.
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Warframe has done this very recently as well, and many many players are happy with what's happening, so much so that some players who dropped the game for a while decided to come back.
QOL update would be amazing and I'm sure it'd bring many players back.
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Hello @Sushi_and_Sax , and welcome to the DBD forums! Thanks for showing off your interesting concept. I'll give some feedback in a backwards order.
Hex: Witch's Cunning already sorta exists in the game? See:
https://deadbydaylight.gamepedia.com/Franklin%27s_DemiseYour perk suggestion would basically be a weaker version.
Growing Hunger is a nice idea, kinda like a Bloodlust outside of a chase, but takes too long to activate, but is also OP at the same time? 7% permanently after two minutes of no hooks is kinda crazy. How about something like this:
Growing Hunger - You gain Bloodlust outside of a chase but not in one. For each 10 seconds you aren't in chase, gain one tier of Bloodlust.
Deceiver also kinda exists in the game already. See:
https://deadbydaylight.gamepedia.com/Dark_DevotionYour suggestion is massively OP in comparison to Dark Devotion, as scoring a hit is fairly easy if you can hit everyone to gain the effect.
I don't think the disguise mechanic would work well at all. Survivors would not only get a massive warning from the glowing red eyes, but survivors can already tell who's on the hook and would know that you're wearing a disguise. SWFs (survive with friends / players on comms) would know and tell each other that you're disguised as well.
Lastly, I believe the devs have (unfortunately) said they wouldn't release a disguise killer, presumably since it'd be too easy to see through the disguise.
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I like the idea of this perk, but I can see it being abused hard.
I'd instead make it only activate once per match and increase the speed boost time to 5 seconds.
Also, make sure to leave perk suggestions in Share Your Work section next time.
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Obviously you're supposed to run to the opposite corner of the map, spin around three times, cut off your toes with the chainsaw, and then slowly walk back, duh!
(insert me laughing at trashcan)
Players just get bitter. Try ignoring them OP. Even I have been guilty of such on bad days and I'd ignore me too lol.
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@BigBrainMegMain said:
They're going to, along with keys. Nothing official though.
Moris should be on second hook and keys well...you know.
Not sure why everyone says Moris should activate on second hook, making them practically useless.
I think it'd be much better suited as activating once everyone is hooked at least once and then you can kill one/two.
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With the upcoming breakable walls and the break down of strong loops, I think combining some of the maps as well as making them a bit smaller and removing the RNG would make for some good changes!
Here are the maps I'd personally like to see combined.
- Coal Tower and MOOOAAANNNING Storehouse
- Shelter Woods and Ironworks of Misery
- Azarov's Resting Place, Wrecker's Yard, and Blood Lodge
- ROTTENNNN Fields and Rancid Abattoir
- The Thompson House and Fractured Cowshed
- All Badham Preschools, because it's all basically the same map and I'm tired of feeling like it see it like 5x more than the others
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I prefer blue cheese dip though.
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@Onyx_Blue said:
@thefallenloser yeah, misphrased it. Slowdown as in Hinderance.
I'd say no, the majority of Clown players don't play him well at all. They waste bottles by spamming them in one chase, as opposed to how you should play it, use a bottle when you want to deter a specific pathing route and gain a necessary advantage in the loop. I typically use 1 bottle per chase, 2 at max in a safe zone. They also aim at the survivor instead of the route, as well as gassing a survivor when close enough to just get a normal hit regardless. Wasted Bottles hurt the Clown more than anything else.
You're right, that is a Bubba tech I overlooked. -- A Clown tech I use is manipulating his audio cues when chasing a survivor in a LOS blocked loop, as to fall them into thinking a vault just happened. Unique to Clown and an invaluable technique that can remove the need for tolerating an aggrevating/unnecessarily long chase.
Clown can end chases very quickly, as well as juggle highly efficiently too. Not only can he end chases quickly via forcing unsafe movement and gaining free hits/downs, but he can turn safe areas into a deadzone quickly too. Not many killer's can do that. So, played well, Clown has all the capabilities for the necessary pressure in a 4v1 game.
Perhaps an agreement to disagree? I just seriously don't think The Clown is good at chasing or map pressure in my experience as well as the experiences I've observed from other people. I don't even think I've died to The Clown, only gone down because of Redhead's.
In my opinion, The Clown lacks the tools to compete with good survivors.
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Maybe something like double Bloodpoints or double Iridescent Shards instead.
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Autohaven is actually fairly balanced. MacMillian is mostly balanced. Coldwind is just ugly and impossible for killers to see on.
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@Onyx_Blue said:
@thefallenloser His bottles are designed to be slow down tools, and route deterrence. Bottles are supposed to be saved and used in areas that a survivor cannot do much to out maneuver in as well as shutting down the stronger peel away routes. To say Clown has terrible chase pressure just tells me you don't how to play him.
Being able to use bottles to regress gens shouldn't be a thing, no killer should have that ability.
Having a function that relies on you hitting someone directly with a bottle twice in order to mess up their movement isn't needed either; a) trying to hit direct tosses is a waste of time b) err, there isn't a 'b' because the 'a' was so great.
Clown isn't the weakest killer in dbd, he has very strong chase capability, and has tools at his disposal to be able to pull off some very neat techs. I'd say Bubba is the weakest, so far - since no one has discovered techs with his power yet. It limits his playstyle and skill-cap.
His bottles are designed to be slow down tools, and route deterrence. Bottles are supposed to be saved and used in areas that a survivor cannot do much to out maneuver in as well as shutting down the stronger peel away routes. To say Clown has terrible chase pressure just tells me you don't how to play him.
Slow down tools would refer to slowing down the game/generators, in which The Clown doesn't do.
So really his power is route-deterrence. Unless you mean slowing down movement, which Freddy does better anyways since he doesn't slow down in the process, places them way faster, and doesn't have to reload lol?
Assuming I don't know how to play Clown because I said he has terrible chase potential, which is backed up by the stats? Does that mean most red ranks don't know how to play him either or...? Because he's getting the least amount of kills. He's an extremely simple killer and his power is simple to understand when and how to use it, but it's just a boring, weak power.
Being able to use bottles to regress gens shouldn't be a thing, no killer should have that ability.
Having a function that relies on you hitting someone directly with a bottle twice in order to mess up their movement isn't needed either; a) trying to hit direct tosses is a waste of time b) err, there isn't a 'b' because the 'a' was so great.
Quoting from my reply to another player: "Agreeable. This version of The Clown would already be pretty strong without the addition of Afterpiece regression." Forgot to strikethrough that part of the post.
That's the thing though, you don't have to do it, but you're rewarded for doing so, giving the player more agency/choice. "Do you want to take a bit longer to aim for what could be a powerful effect, or do you want to throw quickly for something more simple?"
Clown isn't the weakest killer in dbd, he has very strong chase capability, and has tools at his disposal to be able to pull off some very neat techs. I'd say Bubba is the weakest, so far - since no one has discovered techs with his power yet. It limits his playstyle and skill-cap.
I don't recall hearing of any special techniques with The Clown, but I know of the aiming-down tech for Bubba that extends the chainsaw's length as well as the Pig-like Ambush he can do.
Still don't agree with strong chase capability. Haven't played against or seen any Clowns that down as quickly as Huntress, Billy, etc.
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@Onyx_Blue said:
@thefallenloser His bottles are designed to be slow down tools, and route deterrence. Bottles are supposed to be saved and used in areas that a survivor cannot do much to out maneuver in as well as shutting down the stronger peel away routes. To say Clown has terrible chase pressure just tells me you don't how to play him.
Being able to use bottles to regress gens shouldn't be a thing, no killer should have that ability.
Having a function that relies on you hitting someone directly with a bottle twice in order to mess up their movement isn't needed either; a) trying to hit direct tosses is a waste of time b) err, there isn't a 'b' because the 'a' was so great.
Clown isn't the weakest killer in dbd, he has very strong chase capability, and has tools at his disposal to be able to pull off some very neat techs. I'd say Bubba is the weakest, so far - since no one has discovered techs with his power yet. It limits his playstyle and skill-cap.
His bottles are designed to be slow down tools, and route deterrence. Bottles are supposed to be saved and used in areas that a survivor cannot do much to out maneuver in as well as shutting down the stronger peel away routes. To say Clown has terrible chase pressure just tells me you don't how to play him.
Slow down tools would refer to slowing down the game/generators, in which The Clown doesn't do.
So really his power is route-deterrence. Unless you mean slowing down movement, which Freddy does better anyways since he doesn't slow down in the process, places them way faster, and doesn't have to reload lol?
Assuming I don't know how to play Clown because I said he has terrible chase potential, which is backed up by the stats? Does that mean most red ranks don't know how to play him either or...? Because he's getting the least amount of kills. He's an extremely simple killer and his power is simple to understand when and how to use it, but it's just a boring, weak power.
Being able to use bottles to regress gens shouldn't be a thing, no killer should have that ability.
Having a function that relies on you hitting someone directly with a bottle twice in order to mess up their movement isn't needed either; a) trying to hit direct tosses is a waste of time b) err, there isn't a 'b' because the 'a' was so great.
Quoting from my reply to another player: "Agreeable. This version of The Clown would already be pretty strong without the addition of Afterpiece regression." Forgot to strikethrough that part of the post.
That's the thing though, you don't have to do it, but you're rewarded for doing so, giving the player more agency/choice. "Do you want to take a bit longer to aim for what could be a powerful effect, or do you want to throw quickly for something more simple?"
Clown isn't the weakest killer in dbd, he has very strong chase capability, and has tools at his disposal to be able to pull off some very neat techs. I'd say Bubba is the weakest, so far - since no one has discovered techs with his power yet. It limits his playstyle and skill-cap.
I don't recall hearing of any special techniques with The Clown, but I know of the aiming-down tech for Bubba that extends the chainsaw's length as well as the Pig-like Ambush he can do.
Still don't agree with strong chase capability. Haven't played against or seen any Clowns that down as quickly as Huntress, Billy, etc.
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@ThisGuuy83 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1141498#Comment_1141498
Not when there running iron will and it's a group of blendettes... And by that logic, then doing the mori thing isn't holding a person hostage, because they'll bleed out then. See how that works?
In that specific situation, yes that is holding the game hostage.
Mori thing is still confirmed griefing tho, GG lul.
Why are people so determined to not get banned for being salty enough to mori spam lol?
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@fleshbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1141436#Comment_1141436
Where and when did they say that? link it.
Can't find the exact link I saw them confirm it on (and in class lul), but just look it up. People have been banned for it already.
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@ThisGuuy83 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1137905#Comment_1137905
Yeah but 99'ing the gates and holding the game hostage is fine tho right?
99'ING ISN'T HOLDING THE GAME HOSTAGE LMAO
In what world is 99'ing holding the game hostage, as you can still catch survivors lol.
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@fleshbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1137943#Comment_1137943
If you are slugged and bleeding there is not much you can do is there? It is their job to kill you and as long as you are slugged and bleeding you have no grounds to complain.
It's griefing, and you can't crawl away, recover, or get healed by your teammate whilst in the Mori animation.
Very much bannable, devs already confirmed.
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@Onyx_Blue said:
I actually really dislike this idea. All you've done to make a killer whom you think is "boring to play as and against" have the exact same ability you find boring, but also made him insanely fast, as to have better map pressure. I am one of the people who finds it to be that Clown has a fine time already with map pressure.
Map pressure is more than just being able to be everywhere. Map pressure is the ability of the killer being played to be able to have an impact on multiple survivors at once. Clown can achieve this very easily. He has great chase mechanics, thus allowing him to get hooks quickly as well as hits in strong loop areas. Making it so he can get rid of time wasting areas early and rotate his gen patrols and chases to fit in with these dead zones. Forcing survivors off gens and into areas they are vulnerable in. Survivors who think they can hang with Clown will attempt to play the remaining safe areas but most likely won't last too long if the Clown knows what he's doing.
If you do insist on a secondary function, how about making it something skilled Clowns won't be able to dominate even more with, but instead, make it something every Clown player can have just as strategy/defensive measure:
Interlude Tonic:
When near a generator, use your Active Ability button to place your special tonic inside a cylinder of the generator. Once a survivor repairs this gen to 50% the Interlude Tonic stashed inside it will explode, releasing a poisonous yellow cloud instantly into the environment. The gas cloud lingers for 12 seconds. Any survivor repairing the gen, and within the clouds radius, at the time of the explosion will suffer heavy vision blur and have their auras revealed for 8 seconds. Any survivor attempting to continue to repair the generator will have skill-checks occuring every 2 seconds of repair while the cloud remains in the environment.
Up to 3 bottles may be held, but can never be reloaded. Start with 2, but an add-on can be changed to give you 1 more of the Interlude Tonic.
All you've done to make a killer whom you think is "boring to play as and against" have the exact same ability you find boring, but also made him insanely fast, as to have better map pressure.
I wouldn't say that he has the "exact same ability", more like "it's the same general idea, but now much more reliable, with a new mechanic to give more of an edge to skilled or patient players." By slightly increasing the effectiveness of the Afterpiece, while also adding in the ability to confuse survivors with accurate throws, and give the ability to reload individual bottles (like literally every Clown player has asked for), Clown players will be encouraged to either get in close, or make well-timed shots, while not being punished as harshly if survivors manage to evade all of your bottles.
I also think that Clown has literally the worst pressure in the game. he can't really end chases fast as he slows down too much when aiming a bottle, and once it's thrown, survivors will just leave to the next loop until the Clown has to reload. Clown's power can be completely ignored by skilled survivors, so increasing it's base effectiveness is the first part in making him better.
I added The Interlude to not only raise the skill ceiling of The Clown, but also make him more effective at what he does while adding in some fresh gameplay options. With The Interlude, The Clown should be able to find survivors much more quickly, and with the choice to throw his last bottle during his 30 second buff, players have more of a decision to make and have to use the bottles more skillfully. 15% less cooldown on attacks with higher speed and one bottle rewards those who can skillfully end chases, and gives the Clown a high snowballing potential.
This is not the exact same ability, but he's faster. This is giving The Clown more options in a chase that add unique gameplay elements.
Map pressure is more than just being able to be everywhere. Map pressure is the ability of the killer being played to be able to have an impact on multiple survivors at once. Clown can achieve this very easily. He has great chase mechanics, thus allowing him to get hooks quickly as well as hits in strong loop areas. Making it so he can get rid of time wasting areas early and rotate his gen patrols and chases to fit in with these dead zones. Forcing survivors off gens and into areas they are vulnerable in. Survivors who think they can hang with Clown will attempt to play the remaining safe areas but most likely won't last too long if the Clown knows what he's doing.
Big disagree on Clown having good chase mechanics. As soon as The Clown slows down to throw a bottle, survivors will just leave the loop if they're fairly competent, giving them enough time to get to the next one. The big issue is that The Clown slows down too often in order to shut down a loop. This was the same issue with Old Doctor. His power's effectiveness also isn't all that strong, seeing as it wears off fairly quickly, and then survivors can go back to the strong loop you just threw a bottle at, forcing to to throw another one, rinse and repeat, until you're out of bottle, have to reload, survivor gets away, you wasted your time. Even the most skilled Clowns can struggle on larger maps as well without a fair amount of slow down effects. There's a reason why on red ranks, Clown is the weakest.
Interlude Tonic:
When near a generator, use your Active Ability button to place your special tonic inside a cylinder of the generator. Once a survivor repairs this gen to 50% the Interlude Tonic stashed inside it will explode, releasing a poisonous yellow cloud instantly into the environment. The gas cloud lingers for 12 seconds. Any survivor repairing the gen, and within the clouds radius, at the time of the explosion will suffer heavy vision blur and have their auras revealed for 8 seconds. Any survivor attempting to continue to repair the generator will have skill-checks occuring every 2 seconds of repair while the cloud remains in the environment.
Up to 3 bottles may be held, but can never be reloaded. Start with 2, but an add-on can be changed to give you 1 more of the Interlude Tonic.
I mean, I guess it's more information? Which is nice, but it's not even that good, as one, it's completely nullified as long as survivors already repaired the generator to 50%, two, it's only 3 generators, two, only lasts 12 seconds and doesn't slow anything down, and three can only be used three times during a match. Would basically make The Clown Doctor, but he can only Hinder you and only Static Blasts in an short radius (which isn't guaranteed to be near you, and probably won't be). It's just not that effective.
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@Blazelski said:
My experience with Bamboozle is that it has gotten me a decent amount of much easier downs or hits than I would have gotten without it. Mostly just because of the faster vaulting, which catches survivors off guard. The blocking off of windows is kind of an extra benefit. But I'm not exactly an authority on it's overall effectiveness.
Coulrophobia isn't exactly an inspiring perk name for creative effects... Just throwing an idea at the wall here:
Coulrophobia - Survivors in your terror radius for more than 5 seconds cannot be healed from the injured state in any way other than being healed by other survivors until they leave your terror radius.
This would counter last second self-caring to no longer be injured during a chase while a killer breaks pallets or using medkits in the same way, and would serve as a partial counter to the quite powerful Inner Strength. It would also serve as a counter to the Anti-Haemorrhagic Syringe, if you were afraid of a toxic SWF with a bunch of medkits, kinda like Lightborn works for Flashlight groups. It'd also make Autodidact a potential counter to it, which I think would be nice. Haven't thought it all the way through, though.
I think I actually have something that can tie in with the perk name as well as slow down healing.
Coulrophobia - Healing survivors within your Terror Radius breathe louder the longer they are in the radius, up to a max of 25% over 10 seconds, in which they then scream and reveal their location. Survivors who scream regress current healing progress by 50%.
Big con is that players would probably just not heal in your Terror Radius. Counter to this may be for the time not to reset until the survivor screams even if they stop healing/leave the radius.
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@ausanimal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1137905#Comment_1137905
So what's the difference from standing over a player and watching them bleed out and doing the mori spam where they still bleed out in the end? how is it holding the player hostage as both have the same out come the survivor will die, holding a player hostage would be body blocking them in a corner with no way to get out if they were the last survivor alive with no EGC, can't get to hatch or gate so the game can't move on because the killer is holding the player hostage.
But please explain how letting a survivor bleed out is holding the player hostage, yes it will suck to be in that situation but there is a end.
Survivor team can't do anything to help their teammate since they're locked in an animation with the killer. If a killer just stood over them, survivors can still come heal and body block.
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@toxcitynacl said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1134427#Comment_1134427
So hyperbole is an alien concept to you. I was being facetious to the extreme. Keys in fact have counters...you can first off simply dodge the lobby where one appears (just as you can sorta do so with Moris) or tunnel any person who has a key to death. And simply they aren't nearly as big of a problem as whiny killers make them out to be and yes Moris are annoying as hell but the times I have died by Moris are a tiny percentage of the times I have been killed.
So you don't like keys? Great. Get rid of keys but at the same time get rid of the killer closing the hatch and EGC so we can have 1 hour games of people hiding in corners and hatch standoffs again. I like that idea much better than a few people escaping with a key 5% of the time...sure you will agree 100% with me as well--that's sarcasm btw just in case you didn't notice.
This comment makes even less sense then the last lol.
Dodging lobbies to avoid Keys and Moris is not a valid option. Also survivors can just hide the key by placing it in a corner or something until the hatch spawns. This is why Franklin's isn't a counter to keys either.
Survivors can also do next to nothing to prevent a Mori other than not getting hooked.
Your first comment implied that you thought Myers add-ons, insta-down powers etc. ruined games. Even if you were being sarcastic you always have to be aware that sarcasm doesn't translate well through text, which is why none of you comments made sense, and this was an absolute waste of time, smooth-brain.
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Interesting idea, though it is inherently killer sided. Killers cannot be interupted from opening the cache and the item can't be taken away from them. It's also much shorter to open. If the killer finds it, it's theirs guaranteed.
Also people would just search for the cache the entire game instead of doing the objective.
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@Andy111777 said:
Something tells me the survivor mains got a nerve struck. 😂 If you behave toxic toward me and I get you in another game I will bring a mori, spam it 10 times and kill you.
If you Mori spam because a survivor outplayed you then you're probably the one who got a nerve struck. The survivor is just laughing at you because you needed a Mori to take them down.
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@Nurgling7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1137905#Comment_1137905
How is letting the Survivor bleed out holding the game hostage?
Holding a PLAYER hostage.
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@toxcitynacl said:
Yeah and you'd have people on PCs crushing people on console...oh the joy. I'd much rather wait for 10 minutes and not have to face some sweaty guy on a PC. Puppers said it best I think on this...not only no, but HELL NO.
And seeing how buggy the game is now on both sides and knowing the current skill set of the developers how well do you think a cross-over game between platforms would work? In case you weren't aware, the dedicated servers on Xbox for example had to be taken down. The current problems with the game would seem like a well oiled machine compared to the FUBAR a crossover would be.
Survivor with controller is actually easier to control than survivor on keyboard, so no, that's false.
Killers will be better which means I finally get to go up against competent Nurses and Huntresses. Oni will also be a bit better.
Otherwise, nope. We'll all be fine.
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@Andy111777 said:
Lol reportable? Either the survivor keeps the killer's attention for the gens or he bleeds out eventually.
I like how everything toxic a survivor does is replied with, it's just a game, if you get upset just play something else or git gud but the moment a killer does something, sound the alarm, it needs to be reported. Hypocrites so amusing
It's called actively holding a player hostage.
It is bannable as it should be.
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@underlord99 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1137877#Comment_1137877
what if I'm right next to the survivor and he isnt making noise. ? that's not on me. like I said this would just be a bandaid fix since the devs have already stated that they have no clue how to fix it or why it happens.
Ah, if the devs don't know how to fix it, that's my mistake, sorry.
This would then indeed be a fine substitute.
I think that perhaps a more appropriate substitute however may be Ghostie's reveal lines / Killer Instinct?
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@underlord99 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1137659#Comment_1137659
not really true, if I'm right next to a slugger survivor and he isnt making noise thats on the game. not me . that's like saying "if you use DS on doc and it doesnt do anything that's on you" both are bugs that the player cannot control.
And before you say u can control the noise bug by not slugging , well you could control the DS bug by not using it when it was broken.
I'm talking about slugging in general. Since you can't hear survivors because of the bug, this suggestion is useless, as you could just ask the devs to fix the bug instead.
In a general sense, however, if you can't find a survivor you slugged, that's on you.
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If you can't find survivors you slugged, that's honestly on you. There should be a trade off to slugging.
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@Blazelski said:
"generators hit directly by a bottle will begin to regress" No to base kit. Yes to add-on with possible other minor effects.
"survivors hit directly by 2 bottles will become Confused and their movements will be inverted" Dunno if you're on keyboard or controller, but this would just be a nightmare on keyboard. I genuinely doubt I could ever get used to this. It makes sense logically, but it totally violates comfort more than any other mechanic in the game. Maybe this could still be done with the high cost of 2 direct hits in fairly rapid succession, but this mechanic would require a lot of care to implement fairly, if it's possible. Other possibilities may be better.
This Bamboozle is too strong for all the loops it shuts down without the killer doing anything. I don't think Bamboozle needs adjustment, honestly.
Coulrophobia does need a change in my opinion. I don't love this one, but I don't hate it either. I think I do hate the idea of it being on a Doctor with a max terror radius build and on the Game map.
I gotta say I do love the general idea of the two power options for Clown, one to buff himself and another to debuff survivors. It fits his lore better than his 1 power at the moment. Choosing between travel mode and chase mode is a unique fix for his lack of map pressure, and you deserve credit for that creativity. The most necessary change to accompany this idea is a change to his terror radius music. A slow, half-broken record of carnival music for Afterpiece mode, and a sped up, creepily clean version of the carnival music for Interlude mode.
No to base kit. Yes to add-on with possible other minor effects.
Agreeable. This version of The Clown would already be pretty strong without the addition of Afterpiece regression.
Dunno if you're on keyboard or controller, but this would just be a nightmare on keyboard. I genuinely doubt I could ever get used to this. It makes sense logically, but it totally violates comfort more than any other mechanic in the game. Maybe this could still be done with the high cost of 2 direct hits in fairly rapid succession, but this mechanic would require a lot of care to implement fairly, if it's possible. Other possibilities may be better.
I'm on controller. This is a fair point. My aim with this addition was to give skilled Clown players more of a reward for precise bottle throws. You are right that other effects may be better but I wanted to make the Tonic a bit more unique than say... Freddy's Dream Snare. If it was ever considered, maybe it'd have to be two direct hits within 3-5ish seconds?
This Bamboozle is too strong for all the loops it shuts down without the killer doing anything. I don't think Bamboozle needs adjustment, honestly.
I personally think Bamboozle could use some changes. I think more skilled players can avoid it's effects fairly easily. I also think that's fairly uninteresting in terms of interactivity. Maybe this isn't the right way to go about changing it, but I would like to see it changed.
Coulrophobia does need a change in my opinion. I don't love this one, but I don't hate it either. I think I do hate the idea of it being on a Doctor with a max terror radius build and on the Game map.
I did actually consider this exact scenario while typing the idea out. I had another idea of making it more than a simple slowdown perk but opted to keep it fairly similar but also a bit more powerful. Maybe to avoid that scenario I'll think of something else lol. Any ideas?
I gotta say I do love the general idea of the two power options for Clown, one to buff himself and another to debuff survivors. It fits his lore better than his 1 power at the moment. Choosing between travel mode and chase mode is a unique fix for his lack of map pressure, and you deserve credit for that creativity.
I wouldn't attribute all the credit to myself, but thank you. Admittedly, I did hear the idea of The Clown being able to consume his Tonics from somewhere, though I can't recall from who. I just tried to build upon that idea with some weird idea like Bloodlust occurring outside a chase and limiting bottles while in "The Interlude" so he isn't omega faster than the survivors lol.
The most necessary change to accompany this idea is a change to his terror radius music. A slow, half-broken record of carnival music for Afterpiece mode, and a sped up, creepily clean version of the carnival music for Interlude mode.
Yes! Exactly! This would make chases with The Clown just feel a bit more intense and dynamic!
Thanks for stopping in @Blazelski and for your feedback! (sorry if these quotes look a bit weird, just discovered this feature)
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@Dwinchester said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1136430#Comment_1136430
I think you underestimate how devastating that ruin nerf was. Its the equivalent of adding 25 seconds of gen time. The entire game was balanced around ruin gen times. When you take that away, but don't significantly nerf survivors, you get this cluster #########.
Add in those patch notes that basically told killers to go screw themselves, you lose killers.
There were killers who performed perfectly fine without Ruin, so that statement is a bit false. Were a good portion of killers reliant on Ruin? Yes. But that's more of poor killer design.
And even then we're making good progress so far with the significant toolbox changes. I'm confident that gen times are going to be more consistent and fair starting after this PTB, though I do think more work can be done.