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@CompetitifDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/452768/is-new-clown-a-tier
I would say hes a mid B tier killer up from high C. Being faster is good, but its not really a power other than being slightly faster (this is a seperate problem, as his power is really boring and quite literally takes no skill now). Kaneki is way faster, has a secondary method of damaging survivors and built in slowdown, for just a measly cooldown. Thats way better than clowns 12% haste for only 6 seconds.
Typically B tier killers are the most balanced in the game, but this power is just boring to play against now, while not making him much stronger and only making him unfun to play against. If they wanna fix him while keeping him at this strength, they should revert the haste buff and even nerf it to maybe 8% while keeping the yellow activation time at only a second and add a new effect of making the cloud disappear faster (so survivors can't get your haste as easily. Make Tonic bottle clouds much bigger to compensate for the nerfs. Increase the overall bottle capacity to 8 bottles. All changes are to incentivise the use of both bottles, while not having either one too powerful
U can’t outplay him in loop at all now. He is just broken. Why B tier?
I don't think He should be assigned to a specific tier now. Like the original SM, its design is now simply unhealthy and allows for abuse of the game mechanics. For SM it is a dependence on 3 gens, for the clown it is haste -
As I remember, this bug existed even before (but usually survivors had animation to go out of lockers) on specific lockers on different map. Had same issue on Yamaoka and Macmillan
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They are fun in total, but many people pretending to be able to spam with them is fine.
Yesterday I found only one survivor, who made a specific build around fog vial and he was literally uncatchable. Lighfooted, iron will, lightweight, quick and quiet. And yeah, that was first time I wasn't able to track survivor.
The new mechanic is fine. But u shouldn't be able to spam it every minute. And yes, it’s indeed kills any engagement and encourage avoiding chases. Just a weird move, especially after they changed afk crow system and claimed themselves that game now is more about chases than hide and seek. But if people like it, that's a reason to save this mechanic and only adjust it
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@Wrecked said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3974874#Comment_3974874
In regards to the proxy camping, from my own experience, I’m referring to specific maps. Let’s say the killer is stood just enough away from the hook so that the anti-camp doesn’t trigger but so that they can come straight back when the unhook happens, a lot of maps have blind spots depending on where the hook is, such as near the killer shack or near big trees and other structures. I would drop the fog vial as I unhook and then the unhooked survivor would run away from the hook in the opposite direction to where the killer is currently waiting. So when they come back to the hook they either have to walk through the fog or try to go around it, but by this point the unhooked survivor could have made a ton of distance due to Babysitter and because they were also engulfed in a cloud of smoke, the killer couldn’t keep an eye on what direction they ran into. So at that point, it becomes a guessing game and the more time the killer wastes trying to work out which way to go, the more distance the unhooked survivor has made. I have done this in plenty of my games and seen great success. This only doesn’t seem to work if the survivor accidentally runs into the direction the killer is coming from, but that would happen with or without the fog viles being in play.
If you haven’t been experiencing hard tunnelling in your games prior to the recent patch, then I’m genuinely happy for you. But unfortunately that hasn’t been the case for many people, including myself. Tunnelling somebody at 5 gens to create pressure has been incredibly meta for a long time now and I haven’t seen an increase since the new update. I was actually thinking that it hasn’t been too bad since TWD chapter dropped, but I just love my Babysitter build for when it does happen. Tunnelling definitely hasn’t increased due to fog viles, it might just be that you’re going against more killers now that choose to use that play style. You’ll more likely be in the minority as you only have to look on these forums, social media and look at videos from content creators to see that being hard tunnelled and focused out of the game early on has been prevalent for a while now, so I really don’t know what else to say to you in regards to this.
If it's killer shack, it’s usually on the corner of the map. Or in the middle, but with a basement or a hook slightly away from shack itself. No way to get enough distance from the area, if the killer knows and standing on good spot. Mistake or skill issue from the killer then. The point of proxy camping is standing on a specific spot where u can track ALL directions when someone gets in or out of the place. If it’s simple camp,It then yes, it may help. The babysitter here brings 99% of the actual value. Whatever.
I didn't tell that I wasn't never been hard tunneled before. I didn't tell it didn't exist as meta before. I would like to ask to stop reverting my words, please, in a way that it wasn't said before. I told simple: “now my every game is about killer tunneling someone” . Means it's more frequent then before. You can't deny it because it's personal experience. I watch enough social media and other people's experiences to know the proportion of this that used to happen. If you don't believe me, there were a few posts on this forum yesterday that also said they were now encountering the tunnel like never before. It's not "hardtunnels didn't exist before" or "they weren't meta." It's saying that games are ONLY played with it now, and that's concerning. A lot. If somehow your games were 100% 5 gen tunnel before the update, I don't know what to say. You'd have to be very unlucky or playing on weird lobbies.Community manager asked about survivor POV in comments, I decided to share about survivor POV from such perspective. Instead of simple accept that some survivors don’t like their teammates with fog vials I was accused like “it’s because u can't tunnel that easy that before as killer huh”. I told it's not a big deal and provided further arguments, all of them was cancelled because “well it's not valid, because for ME it’s different” . What’s the whole point of people having different opinion then. Can we simply accept that actually half of the community don’t like fog vials in current state, and that's not only killers? Looking on votes up on OP about survivor POV about fog vials is enough
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@Wrecked said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3974837#Comment_3974837
They work together. Babysitter hides the unhooked survivors scratch marks and blood, but a lot of killers proxy camp and can see which direction the survivor went in and if they don’t have Iron Will or Off the Record they can be tracked from their grunts of pain. The fog vile makes it harder for the killer to know what direction they took off in, it also works for the unhooker as it hides their own scratch marks which can lead to situations where the killer comes back to the hook and can’t see the recently unhooked survivor OR the unhooker. I also combine this with We’ll Make It and I am often able to follow the unhooked survivor to quickly heal them. So now we have two fully healed survivors which the killer can’t locate. It’s a massive time waster which is exactly what you need to be doing as survivor. Hopefully during this time the rest of your team are cranking out the gens. I’ve been running Babysitter, We’ll Make It and fog viles pretty much none stop since the update dropped and I’ve got a ton of value out of it.
Maybe you aren’t seeing value in your own games, but that isn’t the universal experience. However, to say tunnelling has increased because of the fog viles just isn’t true. Tunnelling has been extreme long before the fog viles came out. If somebody carrying a fog vile gets tunnelled, I seriously doubt it’s because of the item they’re carrying. I see plenty of teammates being tunnelled and a lot of them aren’t carrying any items. It’s just baseless claims at this point.
How exactly does fog help in the case of proxy camping, if the killer can just stand behind the fog (where he was before) and simply wait until he sees someone running out of that fog radius? I get its value only for running risky 50/50, but you told u running two teamwork anti-tunnel meta perks, and fog barely do any contribution.
Few guys in my games followed your logic, and the injured survivor either ran right into my hands (I also did it a few times when playing against undetectable killers) or, simply, I tracked them down. U can counter it as a killer, if not, you need time to adjust
Predrop fog vials work well only on prerunning to specific construction when killer is on the way to you, not standing on specific spot for comfort tracking as proxy campers doing. Or maybe, okay, I get your point against ranged killers, but the whole issue of fog vials that we have bunch of killer that simply deprived of any power if u mess with their sound and LOS. And idk is it fair balance or not.
Because fog isn’t dropped for prerunning or something, u either take huge risk and heal in the fog (and it’ll work only if the guy who unhooked u run builds like this), or the injured person have to run out of fog where proxy camper, who is already standing on good spot, may notice u from any direction. It can work only when u already have something for antitunnel, so, it turns out it doesn't really help. Just risky way to play 50/50.
I also don't get how u can prove “tunneling frequency didn't change”. Before I hardly saw tunneling in my lobbies or it was postponed until 3-2 gens left. Only after that. Now, idk, maybe it's not fog vials but the whole terrible state of the game after this update. That's my experience. As you told yourself, it cannot be universal and u may miss it or didn't notice. For me I clearly see change and I’m not happy. Now I see more and more killers focused on only one person until they dead, and maybe it happens cause devs actually doing something wrong with balance updates. When 99% games is consist of cheese gameplay from specific side, something absolutely wrong. When queues from killers load up for few sec, maybe, it basically means only few people want to play this side, and who left is unbearable or playing really unfun strategies. So, if it's not fog vials, because it's literally the only mechanic that they added + ton of bugs that somehow affects only one side and also caused by vials, explain please what exactly is wrong.
Again, I’m against deleting vials. Finally something “new”. But their charges need to be reworked. People now usually use it mindlessly, bunch of killers unplayable + in bad hands this is simply a tool for sandbagging. Maybe if it was limited use, it will be less annoying. From both sides. -
@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3974834#Comment_3974834
No one is suddenly going to start tunnelling because of fog vials. Anyone who says they are were going to tunnel anyway especially since, as you said, the vials do very little to deter it. As killer, there's no way I'm stopping chase with another survivor to run back to hook because they have a vial lol makes no sense
Very often tunnelling happens because the killer is not currently in a chase with anyone. Vials make it very easy to delay the start of a chase, because if you understand that the killer will return to your generator, you can throw a vial and pre-run to a good loop. Many killers simply do not want to start a chase if there is a skilled survivor in a good construction against them. Waste of time, they probably will lose both chase and gens.
This also blocks BBQ or nowhere to hide/friends till the end. This is a good effect, but on the downside, many killers prefer to just hang out near the hook and proxy camp area, because they have no information on the other part of the map/they are not involved in the chase.
Of course, some play purely for chases, and thanks to fog vials, they started to lose more often. But if the killer is a sweaty player playing to win, give him at least one feeling that he does not have enough information on the map or control in chase and he lost track - he will go to the tunnel. And these guys tunnel very well and mercilessly. They will counter your ds or otr efficiently, and only good teamwork can save you.
I would just like my teammates on the survivors to have a little more responsibility and awareness that sometimes they should distract the attention of such killers, and not play stealth. Take a chase so I have time to heal please. Sorry of course, but this is no different from crouching Claudete on the edge of the map usually. And when they are in chase they also just drop this item, making it completely useless, because if the killer closes in range he can see everything. But me? Played against a ghoul on Hawkins with the headphones addon. Someone dropped fog. I was injured and just ran directly to the killer, because he had no terror radius and sound. But my healthy teammate with zero hooks had fun using this item ofc.
I am not saying to remove fog vials from the game. But this item should have a limit on use so that survivors use it less thoughtlessly and in really critical situations. As killer - I annoyed only because I waste time sometimes having no chases. It's better than 4 tool boxes anyway. But as survivor, I find teammate with fog vial a whole burden in team usually. Again. I’m not asking “delete this bs”. Just make them limited use so my team can sandbag me less frequently. In solo this item rarely in good hands.
If u looked on my previous comments on other discussion, I commented that this item is mid. From the killer perspective it is annoying only when constantly spamming for pre run and on ranged killers. Because of ranged killer this item just make playing by your m2 impossible. But again, ton of bugs, people pretending “this item so skill required” and how teammates simply avoiding any interaction when they supposed to do this just makes me dislike this item a lot.
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@Wrecked said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3974825#Comment_3974825
Don’t try to make out like tunnelling has suddenly appeared because of the fog viles as we all know that is a lie. It’s been rampant for months and months now. If anything, the fog viles help against tunnelling as you’re able to hide your recently unhooked teammate. I’ve been using Babysitter + fog viles and it’s been allowing both myself and the recently hooked teammate to vanish from the hook.
Are you sure you’re just not annoyed that it’s making tunnelling harder for you to do? 🤭Babysitter contributed much more here than fog, believe me.
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@Wrecked said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3974825#Comment_3974825
Don’t try to make out like tunnelling has suddenly appeared because of the fog viles as we all know that is a lie. It’s been rampant for months and months now. If anything, the fog viles help against tunnelling as you’re able to hide your recently unhooked teammate. I’ve been using Babysitter + fog viles and it’s been allowing both myself and the recently hooked teammate to vanish from the hook.
Are you sure you’re just not annoyed that it’s making tunnelling harder for you to do? 🤭Tunnelling has always existed, but now when I’m playing Survivors it's the only style killers pursue. It's MUCH frequent than before. I had 15 games in 2 days on survivor, was tunnelled myself 4 times, and my other teammates suffered in 90% of cases.
I’m talking about this from a survivor perspective. Fog vials do nothing against tunnelling, at least when I played killer it was such a useless waste of source instead of teammate bodyblock or sth else. Moreover, more killers now are genuinely frustrated and when my teammates are constantly spamming this bs killers are more likely “well it seems they want to play hide and seek, so I’ll prefer to return to hook and chase injured survivor with pools of blood trace I can easily track in fog even”
Even when I played killer myself, I haven’t faced with any issues with tunneling someone if needed because of vials. What are u trying to point at? If u want we can just sit in Discord where u can prove that vials are “a great tool to make tunneling harder” and not some ragebait unhealthy item that instead of engaging killer in chase just screaming “drop everything, here is grunting Meg I hooked few seconds before”. I’ll show u my records of play as well. Both from survivor and killer perspective
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I suppose it will change… nothing? Or survivors in total need to waste even more time for doing boring m1 interaction. Boring.
To some extent, I liked the concept of blood gens from blood moon event. If the generator repair, for example, was divided into three parts, where in the first you need to use motor oil or gasoline to fill like in blood gens, in the second you insert a part into the generator you found in chest before, and in the third you actually do gen charges, then it would be interesting to deal with generators on a survivor side. At least for me…
Maps or new offerings with automatic tracking of chests or keys would become popular. This also kills the potential for genrush because you need to spend time on map scout.
As for killers, this is possibly the potential for new perks and less desire to concentrate on a full regression build. But I doubt that the game will ever allow to rework the mechanics of generators in principle, we are forever stuck with them in this state…
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They made one change and it crashed whole game. The only fun people experience when they use fog vial themselves or when u on killer and survivor simply so oblivious that runs right into you.
Maybe if we didn’t receive such lazy made chapter both in balance and technical terms people ranted less. I mean, if even someone like hens or other dbd high skilled influencers complains sth is off
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@ThatRyanB said:
I've already acknowledged this on more Killer-focused threads, so I wanted to pop in here to say that I appreciate you sharing your perspective on Fog Vials from a Survivor POV. We've been collecting feedback since the update's release, so I wanted to make it clear that we're also taking Survivor feedback into account here.
For that reason, please don't hesitate to share your Survivor perspectives here, as I'll be keeping my eyes open for feedback!
As soon as killer see fog vial it’s a high chance he will extra hard tunnel someone in team. I never faced with such frequent tunneling before, and it lasts for 2 days already. It’s simply not fun and annoying play both solo surv or killer
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This silly fog vials idk frustrate everyone so much that’s my every game on survivor is simple fighting for life to not get tunnelled myself or help a teammate.
I fought with a ghoul for 4 gens. Died anyway gg. Because the gen efficiency after this patch is sth with bugged streetwise and fog vials that helps with prerunning a lot. Killers simply lost every interest in playing normally because everything they see now is one guy with an infinite toolbox, another with heal meta, third juicer with infinite free finesse thanks to last stand and 4th is scene partner, dramaturgy, vigil and fog vial/flashlight.
A lot of killers are buggy mess now as well. I feel pain because I realise I need relearn myself how to play on phead.
U have fun until your opponent is baby killer or cheeky surv who does a lot of mistakes
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I'm not sure I could take such a concept seriously. Most licenses here have had a period of time to establish themselves as franchises. The game's reputation is also too controversial.
Btw I'm pretty sure it will also attract a younger audience to the game, and honestly I wouldn't recommend them playing something like this. The community is too toxic.
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I’m just gonna assume that’s code issue for auto blood web update? It always prioritises iri addons + items itself, but maybe devs forgot to put priority on fog vials for auto update
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@YamamuraVideoRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3972329#Comment_3972329
idk. Win a mind game? In any case, a protracted debate about a different killer on a map filled with god pallets derails this topic completely.
Oh. I also forgot that even with nerfed franklins, this isn't an issue. How is a survivor going to use their syringe when their medkit is on the floor two rooms back???????? 🤣
So, u mad about frankly demise only cause they steal your item without any conditions to counter specific gameplay ? Like, press F for 4 toolboxes from sabo or genrush team, idc are u finding toxic it or not.
Killer waste the whole slot, in what god sake it considers toxic if you yourself said syringes and septics aren’t big deal to counter. Killer just don’t waste his time, but sacrifice slot instead of using something more useful just because many items can cost the whole game.Yk how u can counter it? Don’t be greedy and forget about item u lost, actually play game. Show gen efficiency this killer and make him regret he didn’t bring 4 genregress perks . Ez. When I played as survivor against guy with fd I never lost because I simply don’t rely on items
Such builds aren’t toxic?
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@PigWithTvs said:
so the flicks are broken?
i legit thought i was just messing it up
glad to getr confirmation and honestly every bug made it from the ptb along with more lol
I thought I also messed up until noticed how it miss aligned in half of cases
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3973984#Comment_3973984
I play killer regularly. About three hours yesterday. I'm guessing it's because, like I said, the vials aren't throwing me off. I'm not losing pace with people so if it's happening I'm hitting them too quickly after to even notice.
It’s not about vials, it’s about game bugs that everyone already noticed and even bloggers complained about
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@Jspect said:
I can vouch for the first one, his flicks are very broken. (please fix)
Also, can you clarify the last point?They added input buffering, so your power feels “more consistent”, but I’m pretty sure that’s the actual reason why flicks are misaligned and power get constantly cancelled.
More likely this input buffering is too sensitive to dpi and fps settings people usually use for playing through flicks. Like this happens with oni, when u tried to flick like it was before his turn ration challenge.
I called it braindead, because u can play in “normal” way and this won’t bother u. On low dpi and without flicks this issue doesn’t exist. U also can use one of his iri addon (doesn’t matter is it for snipeshots or for breaking pallets), put black strap addon, and play him in the most casual way. For me this change killed every skill expression on him…
And the funniest thing, cause I’m maining him usually I get high mmr lobby. 5k, 7k, 2k, 100 prestige or more likely (against my 600 hours, just because I’m playing few killers only). People on this level usually knows that without flicks he is mid killer with poor map pressure and that his power easy to dodge. I still get matches with 4k despite broken flicks, but now I more inclined to tunnel or play through boring m1. I… don’t like it. That why I called him braindead now.Btw seems if u play with green tape addon and somehow finds golden middle in your dpi, misaligned flicks will bothering u less
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@R2k said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/452565/survivor-feels-so-bad-r-n
First of all, game has nothing to do with players connection or ping. If you have player with VPN or playing with you from different part of the world or with bad connection, there's nothing people can do about it.
Cold wind… Man, loopers can destroy killers life looping around shack, tree or house.
Only moment I can agree is clown became overtuned. It's like racing car holding W
Even being killer main I’m agree farm is trash, as well as borgo and should be reworked. If u don't have something to connect tiles, farm is terrible generally
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@n2njauwu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3973984#Comment_3973984
is not seeing aura intented ? i mean should an item counter many aura perks, thats kinda annoying
Yes, so if u have bbq or nowhere to hide they can pop it. I mean, that’s fine, but then why for triggering aura perk u need to do at least sth while they simply can spam it
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@Thesctsystemttv said:
Scarlet Egg (Rework): Now causes Survivors inflicted by Torment to spawn Rites of Judgement trails when they sprint. These trails last 5 seconds. You no longer see the auras of Rites of Judgement trails.
THIS IS AN ABSOLUTELY CHEEP AND UTTER BROKEN ADDON AND NEEDS TO BE REREMOVED! no other killer has anything ######### like this. it creates an instant win for this killer. 100%. i do not know what the hell this is even in there for? but i am telling you now i hav NEVER dced because of a kioller i will if i see this ######### add on being brought. is bs. its assholery! and if it stays? it needs a way you can remove it LIKE WITH EVERY OTHER KILLER that is not a ######### stupid uncaging because the killer isnt going to want to cage anyone free ######### 4k mori right here.
IF surviors do not get basekit unbreakable and ds? ( which i dont think they should)
WHY are we adding more broken ######### to surviors. killers instead of FIXING THE TUNNELING AND SLUGGING ISSUES ALREADY HERE! THE DC SITUATION ALREADTY HERE. ( i think people should be able to leave the gME IF THEY are not having fun ill discus this in another post)
But this addon will create even MORE dc issues du to its brokenness and bullshit I DO NOT want to be being killed because i HAVE TO WALK THE WHOLE MAP OR RISK MY TEAM MATES OR EVEN MY ######### SELF and still die becaues he caught me! this is absoulte bsThis trails lasts for few seconds. Maybe don’t sprint to teammate to give him free torment? U even have base kit endurance after the cage lol
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@cogsturning said:
I haven't had any issues on either the killer or survivor end. The fog vials have done nothing to deter me away from who I'm chasing so if they're bugging my matches then I haven't even noticed. If they're the only issue, why not just leave lobbies where someone has one?
If u haven’t noticed chase issue with no blood lust, infinite windows and disappearing scratch marks even without using fog vials that’s really weird. How often u play killer? That's literally in every match now
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I’m not playing huntress, what exactly wrong with her?
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That’s how desperation and misery sound. Like the scream of the soul.
But that's what everyone who plays killer consistently and is trying to show some more than a pathetic chase feels. -
@Skeleton23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3973916#Comment_3973916
This chapter wasn't ready for release. The state of the PTB i knew it wasn't ready. Im just not risking my Stats or Grade on a Buggy Mess and issues like fog Vials being completely OP. My game crashed 5 times today because my switch couldn't handle the Mist Effect from the Fog Vials.
Springtrap wasn’t ready for release. Ghoul wasn’t ready. Both of them still buggy mess.
Houndmaster still exists….
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Indeed. I’m extremely disappointed that they screwed up with release of actually such a good license.
They now don’t even try to make something playable
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Used it against camping booba. He tried to use chainsaw on me but because of fog didn’t notice texture and stuck. That’s silly bomb saved my life
U are not supposed to pop it in front of killer face and use them to run to opposite direction out of fog where killer will catch up. U literally don’t need any skill requirements for using this items but somehow few people still mess up with it while that’s actually fine item to use in critical situation. A lot of killers suffer because of this item and being dependent of having LOS or sounds
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In video here(idk is it accepted by rules to refer on records by using google disk) u can see that usually this item kinda… useless:
But you know when it’s extremely annoying? When it has iri addon or stacks with each other allowing to escape chase with having NO skill. So, u are in chase, and your teammate simply clap this everywhere while u have enough time to go to the god pallet or shack.
Some genius used vials for hiding they doing sabo of the hook, so you can chase one dude for straight 2 minutes and lose it anyway. GGI’m pretty sure subtle cheaters also will abuse it for hiding their sudden disappearance
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@Marc_go_solo said:
The Ghoul: His power where he snares and bites the survivor does not feel good at all. It feels janky and not solid. Just feels terrible. Alongside the hitboxes, pallet hits and so on, he's just not designed very well.
The Twins: A killer whose main power uses one of the most frustrating elements in the trials: slugging. Their design was aimed at the wrong area, and it's gonna take some work to change them. The Outlast Trials just showed how a twin-type killer could work, although Otto and Arora Kress may need slight changes to their story if they ever were to join DBD in future - it's not pleasant.
The Cenobite: He's not a badly-designed killer, but I hate the chain power. This is more a personal issue, but I do not like the effect.
As a side: @tes I was reading those Ghost Face tips and it's helped a bit as to why I unwittingly reveal him when trying to keep hidden. Thanks.
I was really just trying to help, despite the potential harm to my gameplay, I don't know why it caused so much disapproval and controversy. Thanks for finding my comment useful :₽
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I had bug that for some reason Meg had a scream of Michone. That was genuinely terrifying and both me and my friend in discord shuddered in horror. It's really impossible to play when someone sounds that… unappealing
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Some people silently dislike someone‘s post only because they are saying something so evident like 4 vs 1 impossible to fairly balance… nuh
Before BHVR created DeathGarden, and despite having more variety for the survival mechanic and being a cool game, it faced the same problem: new or uncoordinated players died too easily and quickly, while more experienced players simply bullied the “killer”. Same in HSH: survive btw, it is just extremely unpleasant to play one side, while in DBD despite solo being misery majority playing survivors most of their time.
The problem with games like this will always be inevitable in this regard. And it's not like huge streaks on killers are now as easy as before. I'm currently watching the all perks streak from otz and another similar streak from a Russian blogger. Even using an aggressive tunnel and the most boring strategies, the same otz made at least 5-6 resets, unable to secure a victory on 50% of all killers still. And this person has over 14k hours in the game. The balance will always be on the side of those who bring the strongest items in this game, and for survivors this is only possible in sfw, not solo. If u’ll try to balance game around solo, it turns out killer will never be able to kill sfw in current state and will rely heavily on being able to beat solo harshly in 50% So, “mathematically speculating”, it will lead to being so unfun playing killer everyone will suffer in survivor queue time :₽ And that not almost, but every game will inevitably lead to hardtunneling and slugging from killer who stayed for poor 1k
For experiment month before I was doing “no tunnel challenge” myself, condition was never try to chase unhealed survivor who was rescued under any circumstances. I either have to find and hook other person, or let them fully healed. My max streak was 8 games . And I was sweating as hell on my favourite main. It's already impossible to consistently win without unfun methods. Maybe we should balance game not around kill rate, but making unfun gameplay unattractive and encourage more fair gameplay -
@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3972652#Comment_3972652
I don't see the point in speculating on mathematics when everyone has the opportunity to track their personal statistics, and there killrate clearly considers due to how many kills you have. Hatch no matter. Maybe for mmr system, but not for av stats people actually care and thinking of.If you don't see the point in speculating, that's fine, but I don't know why you got in a math discussion via the post I responded to.
Lots of people care extremely deeply about the MMR system and base their entire presumptions of win/loss around it. If you don't, great, but there's not a consensus on how to view the game, which is likely just how BHVR wants it.
Everything else in the post feels like a non-sequitur that's about other game issues.
Because math speculations aren’t needed when even official personal stats circulate around people having personal escape rate (not team one) and killrate only .
I also care about MMR, but clearly not in sense of “win condition definer”. Because… I simply can’t see it? U just can use simple math for counting av rate and don’t try to consider hatch or other factors, because stats considering them only for MMR they told always be hidden and not revealed.MMR is completely another world we can’t mathematically speculate because we don’t even have half of conditions there , and it doesn’t correlate with conditions for win that considers in your escape/killrate u actually can see.
Devs provide only part of actual picture of MMR system, and trying to mathematically speculate about this is actually concerning and more likely to create fantasy rather then depicting reality
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3972132#Comment_3972132
There's a few issues here.
That’s 60%, but if considering “win condition” defined by bloggers and majority, because we like to refer how many killers able to do huge win streaksBut that's not how BHVR tracks the game. It's a whole different discussion on whether they should. BHVR in game metrics of MMR are pretty clear, from the killer perspective, kill = win, escape = loss, hatch = no contest/draw.
In terms of game philosophy, BHVR is again pretty clear via not being clear 'you can consider a win whatever you want to'.
I'd also disagree that there is a clear majority. Back during the slugging vs non-slugging experiment those who participated considered only a 4k a win, anything else a loss, and in terms of streaks for survivors that I'd say is far more associated with SWFs then individual players.
Finally if killers weren't so frequently able to do huge win streaks I don't see how that would be a problem.
So… win rate like 40%????But they also have draws. In the scenario you created the killer has only 40%, but they only lost 20%, while, if we take the assumption of survivors basing their wins only on individual performance, they lost 60% of the time.
What the 3k+ rate to a 60% rate is is uncertain, our best source of data is Nightlight though it has many problems, but based off them a 60% KR likely results in a 3k+ rate of 52 to 55% depending on the killer.
I don't see the point in speculating on mathematics when everyone has the opportunity to track their personal statistics, and there killrate clearly considers due to how many kills you have. Hatch no matter. Maybe for mmr system, but not for av stats people actually care and thinking of.Because the principle of game design of dbd where it’s 4 vs 1 basically means u can provide the best result only with enough info and being in sfw.
U can try to “balance” this game around solo, but that’s being frankly impossible. After huge period of time A LOT meta perks from killers was nerfed,; anti tunnel, anti camp, anti gen was added, a lot of killers without mobility are extremely weak now. For last few years the only nerfed survivor perk is like completely broken made for this or dh and few others. Less anyway, and the game doesn’t provide any “anti-mechanics” for doing objectives.
It still doesn’t help to killrate however. Moreover, continue focusing “we need to do this against x group” just encourage this group to use extremely unfun methods to win. Because against even mid team, games doesn’t provide ability to use fun way to win. If your opponent plays fine, u knows what he is capable of. A lot of players on killer will unlike to give survivors breath by such reason. Because of anxiety of giving them too much, and later u’ll be punished by complete lose, again and again.
The only who doesn’t care on killer simply doesn’t main killer. Same with killers who don’t care of being tunneled 10 times in a row while playing survivors.I’m pretty sure majority of players don’t like tunneling/slug, but anyway they’ll continue to use it because falsy attempt of improving balance by nerfing “op” side literally provides u no options. And u can’t remove this tactic. Because for devs it means the need to nerf survivors twice at least for making killer be able kill at least one guy. U can try to nerf it, but u’ll always have unbalanced nurse or ghoul that don’t actually care about otr or whatever u have.
And even if u’ll try, u are never able to balance this nurse. As well as winrate for both sides.
When u play as survivor, u blame killer in tunneling or teammate in sandbagging. When u play as killer, u usually blame yourself if u aren’t salty of course. Because everyone telling “your role is so ez”. It’s so ez, but u lost. Such a shame, huh. But explains why killers more concerned and focused on sweaty playstyle and trying to abuse everything for being sure they won’t blame themselves of being unable to carry easy role
People claiming about need to decrease killrate instead of trying to buff solos by info and focus in survivors itself, thats phenomenal. These keeps for years and clearly, doesn’t help. I just wish people for focusing on killers winning less and trying actually to think how balance survivor so they can feel fine without affecting other side. Otherwise, it’s just another rotation in dbd history where first suffered killers, than survs, than killers again and it’ll be endless cycle full of toxicity to each other
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@R2k said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3972144#Comment_3972144
I'm not asking voice call. It would be terrible idea to add in as a lot of people are either too toxic or way unstable with their emotional health. Just by checking after game chat in every game now and then there are people who wish killer all bad things to happen.
My idea is to minimize difference to reveal actual game picture as currently it's like roller coaster, in some games you are mentally prepared to face swf and get baby survivors who beg mercy at 5 gens, and in some games you come to chill out and face 5 gens in 3 minutes…Yes, I’m agree with that. So after I started to do win streak on killer I’m now facing actually good lobbies, even if they are solo.
But on survivor it’s still so random, I feel half of my loses on survivor defined by one teammate who simply haven’t faced experienced killer before and don’t contribute to the team
Like… it was three people in game yesterday under fresh hook and instead of healing person they unhooked they healed feng min with 0 hooks while her teammate that actually needed protection was hooked twice in a matter of seconds:₽ Or I’m trying to bodyblock dracula so he is forced to use power and not free m1, but my teammate is so oblivious he is running straight without any attempt to dodge it -
@R2k said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3972132#Comment_3972132
It is possible to balance things out. Major misunderstanding between killers and survivors comes from SWF existence. If you cut away Discord or any other voice option away, even best players in the world play less efficient as they lack information voice call gives.
To properly balance it, we need to equalize SoloQ and SWF so gap between them were low as possible. As it is impossible to ban Voice call, survivors need aura perks like Kindred as basekit. But without revealing killers aura. It will lower gap between survivors and then adjust killers as their winrate will become bit lower. But with a thought it's playing 4v1 not 1-1-1-1-1.
I’m agree with need to make solo buffed by info, but
- voice chat will never be added to game. While no sfw will get rid of discord
- Killer can’t define duo or 3 and one or whole squad. Until first hook at least, so no one prefer to lose pressure at early game and at all on killers.
- It's impossible to balance both win conditions and win rate in game with 4 vs 1. Because teamwork will always be the greatest advantage in such way, especially in dbd where info rules. Comp dbd proves it by nerfing half of the perks on survs and allows killers to hard tunnel for the chance of 2k. I don’t want compare pubs with comp, that’s just actuallly shows how unbalanced game can be if u use info by 100% and rng on your side.
This game never will be balanced as 50/50 for survivors. It either will be purely survivor sided as it was at beginning, or it will be more inclined to killers (at least we are past of unhealthy gen kicks meta) That's why 60% killrate was proved as valid by devs themselves. And no, they barely buff killers. Usually they just milking them as cows and nerfing after, until they create monster with high mobility which core power is being able to counter any info advantage by high mobility.
I still up to buff solo with free information tools without perks, because it has potential to show actual picture. But most important is explain messy MMR where somehow sweaty players get along with chill ones
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3971394#Comment_3971394
The problem with this is that it's not equal currently, at 60%. That's basically what the 60% means: survivors are dying more often than not. It's not "the killer is balanced compared to 4 survivors", it's "the killer is designed to be more powerful than 4 survivors". They want it that way, but it's not "because it's balanced", it's because they choose an arbitrary number.
Arguably, going by game health, 55% is a better target.
I like to think of it like the game trying to manufacture a 'final girl' scenario like how in alien the xenomorph kills the majority of the cast but there's always a survivor.
I always find it interesting that people use this kind of "it happens in horror movies, so it's a good idea in game" to justify killers being the power role. But clearly haven't thought through the implications of applying this logic to a game instead
Do you remember what happens in that scenario? It's not just that the "final girl" survives, but she also kills the killer. And that's a pretty common horror trope, especially with some of the killers you can even play.
And that's why we shouldn't just blindly apply "it works in the movie" to the game.
Just to contribute to discussion…
Everyone I think knows, that escape/kill rate considers different
For survivor “win” considerate as escape. No matter how many teammates left with you. This rule is always applied for streaks and widely considerate as it is. Exclusion, maybe, when u play in full stack sfw (and everyone knows it is rare)
For killer win condition for considering as streak is 3 or 4.
But what for killrate and escape rate? Well, it is slightly different, cause for escape rate counts only personal escape, for kill rate 1 of 4 “points” for each survivor.
If we are taking “ideal” escape rate as 50% it basically means u won 5 games out of 10.
As killer? Well… here is example of 60% (that according to night light only few killers consistently achieved on both mmr level) :
1 out of 4
3 out of 4
2 out of 4
2 out of 4
3 out of 4
2 out of 4
4 out of 4
4 out of 4
1 out of 4
2 out of 4
That’s 60%, but if considering “win condition” defined by bloggers and majority, because we like to refer how many killers able to do huge win streaks it is only 4 wins out of 10. So… win rate like 40%????
Of course, assymetrycal games doesn't mean to one side being overpowered. But the issue of this game is literally 1 vs 4. It’s simply impossible to balance it out. In this game usually either 4 escapes or 4 dying. Win conditions also kind of obscure. Is it really possible to balance escape rate and kill rate for 50/50 if they have completely different conditions for counting by official stats?
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@UnemployedMargarij said:
Once again, players are complaining that developers are fixing bugs. I'd like to see how you'd do flips on a gamepad. Oh, you can't do it? Well, yeah, because it's not fair. This game isn't about killers having some kind of “little tricks.” This game was created so that ordinary players like me, who come home tired from work, can relax with their console and have fun. I don't want my mood to be ruined by some sweaty Oni player who never leaves his house and never touches the grass😐️
That's so funny. Oh no, poor unemployed oni ruined your chill day :₽
Bad oni. Nerfv him rn!
I also play it after work and sweaty matches only thing that keeps me wanting to play it. Cause I don't want to play boring button clicker and engineer simulator
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@calem said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3972094#Comment_3972094
I understand there are certain strategies to "properly" reveal him, but why does this even exist in the first place? Especially since this is not explicitly stated anywhere in his power description, but was only found through trial and error by the playerbase. It's janky if you can only reveal him with the top-middle of your screen. It's also buggy because, as I've said before which you seemingly ignore, I've tried to reveal him countless times out in the open, full model on display, and it does nothing. Buggy, janky, whatever you wanna call it, the reveal function does not work properly a large portion of the time.
If u don't know how to counter a specific killer and call him buggy because u didn't know about the proper reveal method, it is hardly the killer's fault. Every killer has such detail which when u get it u like “ohhhh, wow”.
I just tried to help person how to get better against him and feel less frustrated, because u can actually deal with it. But u said it doesn't work, and now it turns out u also did it wrong. I’m confused about what we trying to discuss now….
“I won’t use proper strategy, so he’ll stay junky and buggy mess” . Well, okay, as ghostie main I’ll just be happy for another 4k :₽
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@calem said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3972082#Comment_3972082
Um, no, there's no defending his reveal mechanic when a large portion of reveal attempts happen when he is right out in the open and I'm staring at him in the middle of my screen and nothing is happening. It's a buggy and janky mess and should be addressed at some point, but he's a weak killer so not getting revealed a lot of the time doesn't really bother me.
U shouldn't put him in middle so… more likely to be in the upper part of your screen.
U have the opportunity to reveal him by using your 3rd face camera while hiding behind walls/textures, nothing problematic to deal with revealing from the survivor side :/ Again, doing is in of where he can crouch to put himself down and cover part OF with LOS the model is a mistake
Another advice: try to reveal him while u crouching or sitting on the ground. Usually, it is easier to realise a right angle from revealing while doing this.
I played against Ghostface on Survivor as well and never had issues with so-called bugs except for two cases in my whole life. So… am I lucky or just understand how it works because I’m maining him and spend at least 100 hours with this messy ability?
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@calem said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3972077#Comment_3972077
Nah his reveal is buggy and janky. I literally played a game today against Ghostface who was crouching in stealth following my teammate. He was out in the open, full model, and I was staring at him and not a single second of it started to reveal him. He kept walking in stealth like nothing was happening.
He was crouching, it also making an impact. A lot of players don’t put ghostie model in the right part of the screen (yes, u need to do this), and don't realise the % issue. If he is crouching, his model reduces up to 50-60% and it takes more time to reveal him
If u are doing everything right, he will be revealed in the second one and 3 if u choose the right angle while he was leaning /crouching.
An actual bug of his reveal is accompanied by either an annoying long sound both killer and survivor can hear, or u can realise it by the killer's behaviour of attempting to hide under some texture. If he wasn't doing this, it means he wasn’t notified by your attempt to reveal, so u just did it completely wrong. Or killer catched timing and decided to hide in right moment to reset timer.
I’m up to change his stalk mechanic, but not because it’s so hard to counter lol. Being able to punish a killer by simply looking at him just sounds ridiculous and outdated after the stealth changes in the game. He has bugs, but usually it doesn't affect the survivor except case of being exposed after ms of revealing him.
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As Ghostface's main, a lot of people still don’t understand his mechanics. It depends of %of his model u can see (%needed varies if he is leaning towards to object or not ) and where exactly u put him on screen.
Don’t reveal him in open fields. Especially if he is far distance. I faced so many goofy situations where people just stared at me like they were stalkers, not me, and they still got exposed. Ofc they can complain and whatever, but killer main also tends to get messy with it and being exposed from angles where it shouldn't happen.
Just as hint: the principle of revealing close to principle of using flashlight. U need right angle and yes, reveal mechanic has the timer
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@jamally093 said:
Nurse: Her power loves to mess with hit validation so trying to counter her is difficult since she can basically appear and hit within a millisecond. I know it's because the server has to do a lot of stuff to see who's screen is valid and so on but if I get it before she appears...it means that her power needs a tweak nothing major mostly just a tweak so the server can register hits a little easier with her
Spirit: Also her power but not hit validation just...play style. My earbuds broke so I have no way of really countering her since directional hearing is not really a thing I find when facing Spirit. Also play style of those who basically have two stereo speakers right next to their hears in full volume I'm sorry you would rather go deaf then just accept the fact you might not get a 4k? Here's the thing I know stridor is a thing but even playing with it on Spirit hearing a survivor breathing isn't really loud or maybe I'm just really terrible at hearing.
Ghoul: ...do I really have to say? Hit detection on his power is really favorable to him so you basically have no reaction time to facing him and he seemingly can just hit through walls because a single pixel of you was showing.
Knight (I love the character, just don’t really enjoy the sandwich playstyle and how many bugs he has)
Dredge because of annoying nightfall
Maybe clown, but I’m fine with his play style, more feel discouraged by character
But nuh, I’m usually fine with every character I’m facing against. It would be dull if I only played against killers I liked. If u don't behave toxic and that's not my 5th Wesker for today, I’m okay with you -
@jamally093 said:
So what am I supposed to do? I had a match against a plague went well never got injured because I used the pools while my teammates ran her fully infected and most got downed because of it now here's the kicker I did some gens and got the exit gates to 99 a teammate gets hooked so I go request he at hook one. But what happens I ran trying to get the exit gate and go down. He opens the door and leaves the other survivor same opens door and leaves. But if I left while he was on hook then I'm the bad guy. There is no winning if you save someone and go down they'll abandon you but if you go down after saving them you'll be abandoned so there's no winning in soloQ. Seriously should I just be a jerk to them and leave or basically have them abandon me because your a soloQ and we're a SWF.
…. Poor teammates. I think the problem of solo is that it is always that person who simply doesn't know how to dodge killer ability. It's ghoul, so I’ll try to run dead zone. It's doctor, so ofc I’ll be fine with greeding pallets lol.
If only u are cleansing against her, probably u are the reason why your teammates got downs. Her power impossible to dodge. A lot of people out of frustration prefer to leave their teammates
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@R2k said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3971916#Comment_3971916
I bet most Ghouls can't play Nurse or Blight. If you remember Spirit nerf or any other used to be S tier killer, only those who truly want to main it, kept playing it. Abusers moved to next "abuse". If anything, I would say they will move on Wesker. 2nd brain-dead killer after Ghoul
Wesker with ton of bugs and having messy hitbox is a braindead killer that people can abuse? Woah
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@conradoo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3971649#Comment_3971649
No one is talking about countering "Undetectable Status" with "Aura Reading". I suggest you read my thread more carefully.
You suggest changing this only against stealth killers, while ignoring stealth perks. That’s weird… especially considering main part of stealth killers are already weak.
This perk was initially created with the thought of high rng dependence and having high reward with high risk or even lose situations. It was created alongside with Myers. I’m pretty sure, that downside of ooo always had sence….
If u want something less random, u can run troubleshooter, alert, scene partner. I find troubleshooter and scene partner even more viable.
If you want a more frequent aura read, you need to accept that you either share it with the killer himself, or sometimes (rarely) suffer from downside effect to always know the enemy's position. It's part of stealth killer mechanic not allow you to know where he is, so every perk that reveals survivor works double for their disadvantage.
This perk also does not require any conditions from you, while giving a good effect, so it will logically be compensated by the unpleasant side of the coin
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3971733#Comment_3971733
I will say it again. The game should not be balanced around high mmr, if there is not a rank mode. There are 40 killers and over 500 perks and knowledge that requires quite some dedication.
It’s impossible to forbid people where it’s one group (or person) against another with winning condition not to compete. It’s mindless to expect people not trying their best for win. Especially when ages before this game had ranking system that actually meant something
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/452154/dead-mans-switch-needs-changes
Big agree. Vigil and Dead man's Switch are insanely unhealthy.
DMS change - upon hooking timer of 50s goes. If any surivivor stops repairing generator for at least 3s, the gen is blocked for reminder of the duration.
Vigil - no longer stacks, no longer reduces exposed duration, no longer gives 40 % but rather 30 % value.
It won’t help for great balancing dms.
You're just suggesting that using this perk is more difficult for weak killers without mobility, while some nurse can simply blink to the gen she needs and it will still be blocked... maybe not for 50, but for 45 seconds
This is the only perk that really saved the meta (along with grim embrace), because call of brine, eruption, scourge, dead lock, overcharge were changed one way or another and will no longer be an unhealthy strong meta, and they do nothing against genrush (they only slow down the game where survivors are either doomed to failure, or, on the contrary, are confident in victory). Apparently, the developers decided to remove 4 unhealthy perks and give 1, which for some reason shows the best results already on very strong killers.
Maybe it is simply worth trying to balance all the perks to slow down gens so that the developers have no reason to leave one that will be used by 80% of players because it is the only stable one.
Person who mentioned other perks before just haven’t seen actual unhealthy meta. Complaining on scourge with only 4 tokens and huge random spawn is wild. The solo problem of doing gens is not existence of this perk, but bad positioning and lack of info. U won’t solve it by nerfing another perk -
If being honest, if u are unfairly getting tunneled, even ds or this perk can’t help u. Killer can be persistent nowadays
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
No it shouldn't deactivate when healed. If you barely get healed in time but the killer is still going back to hook for you that is still tunneling.
If your issue with OTR is using it aggressively to bodyblock for other survivors, I agree that's annoying and something that could be addressed, but having it deactivate when healed wouldn't be the best solution for that. You don't need to get healed to make that strategy effective.
Don’t heal under the hook? That’s such a mistake usually
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They can be vocal, but many perks works against a specific killers power anyway. Like made for this still exist alongside Legion and Deathslinger.
If an undetectable status can be countered by aura read what’s the point of having such status? It's not about specific killer powers, that’s a huge mechanic that also includes perks, that exist primarily for hiding your positioning