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@AbsoluteMeghead said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3976677#Comment_3976677
Simple, counter it by not using oni's power. Easy solved.
U are just rage baiting. Try something better
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Damn. I was fine with people using them, just wish not to spam… That’s sad
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@BrightWolf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3977678#Comment_3977678
The hits through walls are legitimately a lag/ping/latency issue, in that the survivor's hitbox is a mile behind them by the time the Ghoul hits them with his Kagune, but gives the illusion that they were hit through a wall. It's the same logic behind Huntress's mini-fridge Hatchets, or Slinger's harpoon going through walls and objects. It just looks like it's hitting through an object when it's technically the pillbox behind the survivor model.
That’s 100% true. They need to adjust his auto aim so player have more flexibility with his leaps. And get less unfair free hits.
At the ptb stage, i was hoping the game would allow him to move vertically, but they didn't implement that part of the ability, instead giving him a bugged hit while you're standing on the saloon in main and the ghoul is running below.
Probably that's because whole hitbox history on maps is a mess, like invisible fence on haddenfield that doesn't let use demo power
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@ImWinston said:
- The problem with survivor perks is that as soon as DEVS does something useful (Conviction), everyone cries foul. (Last Stand is simply bugged, so I wouldn't even consider it. Once fixed, it will be one of the dozens of useless perks). Working this way must be just awful. If we complain about EVERYTHING, we will only get mediocre perks. Devs make mistakes, but the community is never satisfied either. when DEVS created "duty of care", there was literally a revolt... today literally nobody uses this perk
What about killers? People should shut down their mouths and happily play with ghoul/clown?
Or that’s ”different”?
That's sad that someone trying to embarrass majority by not liking something in this game.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3976657#Comment_3976657
I dont see him worthy now to be buyed because not only he is buggy where some bugs punish killer for good leaps and survivors too with token recharge bug or some hits where survivor is behind wall already but he will get some nerfs and his perks are meh so only reason to buy him is because of his unique gameplay.
I don’t understand why they compare him to nurse, because god no… they haven’t see true nurse mariner yet. Or Blight. Yes he easily stomps solo, but as soon as it turns out survivor can loop his bugs are working against him, maybe kidnap tech only is something player can extract value from.
The only thing for me that actually makes him powerful damn bugs. Because I genuinely don’t understand when player is aiming at you with his auto aim, and when he is just doing leap. Animations are a big mess and making counter him just not intuitive. He has accessibility issues for sure.
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Pyramidhead.
Love his snipes. He is not too broken or op, he is not too weak. Not too hard, not too simple. Golden middle and good skill ceiling that gives u motivation to improve. He has some stability here, even in term of bugs.
I love when my m2 is predicted and played right, that’s always so satisfying :D And yes, I’ll genuinely love my flicks even when I missed 10 times before. Probably he’ll be my first p100 with Rebecca Chambers. Still need to improve on him with my poor 600 hours of experience.
https://youtu.be/ynwqLdoZ5q4?si=2wiSv155K9ZEzFwpI also Ghostface main who loves sniping people on gens with license addon. That's so funny playing him not in a goofy way, but actually scaring survivors.
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@Anti051 said:
Is it a stretch of the imagination or does it feel like they've broken the killswitch system with the new engine update and haven't got the fortitude to admit it?
Kill switch is working. Gideon game was killswitched in ASAP
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Bad teammates can ruin a lot. But u still can improve your skill anyway.
Personal, I prefer running more team oriented + info perks in solo.
Currently I running lithe, troubleshooter, hyperfocus and we’ll make it/off the record/windows of opportunity/vigil/dejavu/resilience/resurgence (+ medkit)
hyperfocus great but hard, yet encourage some skill and rewards u. Usually it helps me to commit to gen when it’s really neededTroubleshooter underrated perk, really. It helps win u 50/50 in construction without LOS and keep distance for a while, because u see killer aura after dropping palette. So, u know the best moment how to trigger lithe. U can variate rotation of this two perks, so u can prolong chase. Because u also see the most progressed gen, u can run there after killer leaving u to commit to gen (especially when killer left u to go there and distract your teammate on gen), or being healed if u were injured.
4 chase perk or 4 genrush perk isn’t that good in solo, because solo requires u being more multi tasking oriented. Just personal opinion
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goblin build are hella funny until it’s not on your teammate who need to commit to 99 gen or rescue other person before they hit another hook stage
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Yesterday had kinda chill game. Until three gen was done at the same time in minute. Being on 0 progress before
It was the only game there I decided I won’t tunnel people at all and spread max hooks.
4 people escaped with 3 people being on death hook. Only Dwight had decent chase and gifted me some pleasant emotions from that game. Others…
Guess what perk they had?
At least they had fun teabaggin me I assume. I just laughed from absurdity tbh. Just because I’m usually not kind player on killer, and as soon I decide being chill I usually get such teams :D
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3977357#Comment_3977357
Friday the 13th was remembered for having massive queue time problems, server instability, ragequitters that instantly ended the game for everyone else, and trolls that would sabotage their own team.
@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3976904#Comment_3976904
Quit as in stop queuing up entirely. The only thing that has made Survivor do that in the last 3 years is the go next prevention, ironically. Unless you disagree that Killers were queuing much less in year 6, to the point devs had to intervene with the meta shakeup.
Dead Hard wasn't exactly free either, though. It was probably the most unfair against Trapper and it could've been tuned down to make pallets more of a toss-up. But that also would've required changes to how Killer works with pallets too. Instead, they just heavily nerfed it twice. The only reason we still see it, in my opinion, is because it's one of the very few skill expression perks for Survivor and players really take to that element of it. MFT I don't even wanna get into.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3976922#Comment_3976922
VHS is a bad example to be honest. The Teens were basically the exact same as DBD, just with more offensive capability, and the most popular Monster used an AOE that often undid the boring workbench system. Whoever was more determined made quick work of matches. A lot of hit and run on both sides as well, so not much interaction overall. That game didn't live or die on comms.
Other games in the genre implement comms so that the Killer role can either hear them or communicate with them as well. Friday The 13th is remembered fondly as one of the more entertaining of the bunch and it did that. I don't see why DBD couldn't do the same.
The alternative would be a voice wheel similar to what Resident Evil Outbreak or Left 4 Dead uses, which would take a ridiculous amount of time and resources to maintain.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3976957#Comment_3976957
See above. It's not a personal remark, it's just the truth. Killer has to be handled a specific way or else the queue falls apart. It's true across all asymmetrical horror games.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3977032#Comment_3977032
Maybe if you came at it with this attitude from the start, nobody would've assumed otherwise.
Killer stop queuing up entirely because their queues are longer and they can't afford “go next” abuse. That's clear point everyone knew, yet you trying to extract some value for attempting to to belittle a whole section of players. If u don't know WHY survivors go next, while killers quit completely or switch to survivors, maybe u are really not in charge of discussing killer role in not sentimental way
That's not very nice, man. Your very words like “it wasn't that bad”, “it's not unfair, x group just fragile” just shows that you even don’t main that group. That somehow u just feel in the theft of superiority of being nice while they aren't, and sincerely believe it. Let me remind you that your teammates on survivors can also be killer mains, and at the same time they sincerely want to help a person like you (because they are playing by teamwork) not knowing that in another role you call them weak and asking special treatment. This is rude and unsportsmanlike, after all,
About dh. Players played bad, lost distance and didn't have enough time to go to the palette, but they can press “e” and win chase anyway. Sure, that was bad only for trapper, yeah. And it wasn't lethal while in 4 vs 1 everyone had it. Especially in the old exhaustion system. Killers were about to be left without old Mori offering and soon was about to be deprived of from hook grabs, killers was consistently getting nerfed alonged that time as well. So, it was reasonable to rework hatch system or old dh, adrenaline. It wasn't sudden unfair decision, it was part of big game rework
See above. It's not a personal remark, it's just the truth. Killer has to be handled a specific way or else the queue falls apart. It's true across all asymmetrical horror games.
Calling people “fragile” while clearly not playing same as them consistently just builds “us vs them” behaviour. Nothing rational or “it works how it is” in your words, pure toxicity and that’s all
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I’m going to agree with @Pulsar . U can’t mess up or play silly when facing decent killer and actually trying to win. Same with killers. They don’t act goofy until feel high superiority against team they are facing.
If people are doing this. That doesn't mean that’s “fine”. I know u are a good killer, and I’m pretty sure u punished severe such cocky survivors many times yourself.
That’s simply how this game works.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3976897#Comment_3976897
Comms are a standard for symmetrical PvP games, where both sides of the game can get equal benefits from them.
Comms in asymmetrical PvP games, help create an environment that is so unfun for killers, that the survivor queue times get so long that the game dies.
Remember that VHS wanted to fix all of the survivor “unfairness”. And they did! But it turns out that if you make one side of the game “completely fair”, it’s so unfun for the other side of the game, that incredibly massive queue time problems happen. And whenever killers complained the game was unfun, the devs told them to “deal with it”, because survivor fairness was more important.
I can get such BHVR reasoning in a such weird way, but what about players
@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3976413#Comment_3976413
It doesn't matter how much you level a Survivor. If you're more invested in Killer, then that's where your bias will lie. The only way to get through that is to look at the game objectively.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3976415#Comment_3976415
I don't think it would. We've convinced ourselves that comms would somehow be terrible for DBD, but it's the standard for any PVP game like this. It's an important part of teamwork that's missing and that's why players do it externally.
To be totally fair too, Killers are more fragile than Survivors. I don't mean that in a snotty way, but if I've noticed anything in the last 3 years, it's that Survivors will continue to queue up for the worst experiences while Killer won't. I'm not really sure how to make the game more balanced while avoiding that loss in the process.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3976417#Comment_3976417
And even with Dead Hard, they just pulled a 180. Survivors could use it to win a palette race, so they nerf it and make it so Killers can win the palette race instead with a lunge. It's like they're allergic to a 50/50 chance when it comes to changes.
I still play both Killer and Survivor, despite kinda bad state for killers after this patch. Yet I won’t say my friend is fragile because he quit DBD after this patch. I can “brag”, I never dced myself despite one case facing a blatant cheater on killer.
But I don’t even dare to call someone fragile, because, damn, they dced. Trying to blame sounds like a big attempt to feel superior somewhere
If a whole group commit to stop playing, while other not…. Maybe… just maybe, it’s not about sentiment or being weak, but that’s a direct message that survivors have fun despite having nerf on dh while killers don’t have fun. And nuh, not less killer played after SM nerf, or recent gen cick meta. Killers not quitting after being nerfed, they quitting when facing with something they can’t deal: survivor perk or bugs.
And if being honest… survivors in SM era, and while ghoul was released, massively DCed as soon as they see big problem against them. Or were giving up. Maybe both sides actually committing to being “fragile”? I don’t even want to call them like that. It’s a game, what’s a point trying to embarrass people when they clearly show moments when this game isn’t fun for them? On both sides -
@TxQ said:
i see killers running 3 slowdown perks and sometimes 4, and it's boring, but do i blame them?, No, i don't.
because they know the gens are FLYING when the killer doesn't have slowdown perks.
i don't mind seeing the gens slowdown perks getting nerf, but at least make the gens take longer to get done + more % on the gen kicking, like 8%.
if they did this, killers would start using other perks.
I don’t want to stick to gen when playing survivor tbh. Maybe, just maybe, it was nice idea making gen interaction not only as boring m1, required some map scout for gathering details or like it was on blood moon event. Still, some gen charges have to be done, but it would be finishing stage or sth like it.
But I’m afraid it’ll be too confusing for new players and hard to implement on such stage…
Hope they will try to evolve idea with blood gens for other events at least :( -
@Zagato said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3976888#Comment_3976888
So the criteria to killswitch something is only if it happens too much, and not just because it’s gamebreaking by itself? Good to know. I hope things stay this consistent going forward, because if a killer has a gamebreaking bug, they shouldn’t be killswitched since not every match will be against them and it supposedly won’t affect games enough.
Sure, they had different opinion with the case of memesis and pwyf incident:D
Even there, I assume, maybe it took too long because first reports was more about “sentiment”. Idk, I love how they explained why many thing aren’d eligible for kill switch because of sentiment. Genuinely have to start to use the same word, when someone would be discouraged by my actions in this game
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@Legendary_deedee said:
Congrats you got to keep wesker’s hug techs as well. Unlike hug techs this bug is recent and not survivor players fault it exist. Nobody told them to rework streetwise. This bug would have also had to exist on ptb so the fact nothing was said before live now y’all wanna try to take action against a bug that ptb players knew about first and didn’t report it. Atp they should stop opening ptb because it’s not being used as intended.
Sure, weskers hug tech much easier to accomplish that switching items in games, and that give killer autowin
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I enjoy playing killer anyway. But it’s much stressful than playing survivor for me. So I never stuck in specific role, otherwise I would just go insane. Playing survivor being killer main is healthy as in opposite way. At least u learn yourself not to build toxicity to other side just because they’re your opponents
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3976703#Comment_3976703
How killer can turn off conviction?Without soul guard, you could just hit him again. With soul guard, you can wait it out.
The absolute worst case with something like NOED for the killer is that the survivors spend time cleansing it. If the survivors spending time to counter NOED is effective counterplay, the killer having to spend time to counter the effects of conviction is also counterplay.
This is what I've been saying about fair comparisons.
Better bring something else to pretend conviction isn’t gream breakingIt's funny you bring up something else because I was thinking about that.
If the survivor was injured a single DH, survivor escapes this situation. A 99ed sprint burst, survivor escapes this situation. The gates are open, the survivor is close, the chance that the survivor should be able to escape right here should be high and other possibilities don't require dedicating your entire build to them.
8 seconds of endurance basically letting survivor to prerun in majority of loop, or, how it happens on OP video, simply leave and win the game.
Attempts to finding excuses “everything is fine” doesn’t stop amusing me. Dead hard can be countered by waiting less than broken 8 seconds and it requires SKILL from survivor, 99 sprint burst requires some SKILL of timing.
Literally 99 reason stop comparing this broken thing with something that was old enough in game and despite being meta having actually some counterplay or having conditions more complicated rather simple teammate healing
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3976689#Comment_3976689
U can’t turn off conviction or soul guard.Of course you can.
NOED isn't just an on off switch. Survivors have to find it and, even if it spawns right in front of them, spend time to disable it. Likewise, killers can wait out soul guard.
All I'm looking for is equality in comparisons. If you want to talk about the time that survivors can use to disable NOED as part of their counterplay, you have to give the same amount of time on the other side for counterplay (killer waiting out soulguard).
How many conditionals have to gather up together so survivor will be in situation “I can’t do anything “?A lot less than 'open doors, against a killer dropping out of power, with my power ready to go, and close enough that I can run to the gates.'
U try to compare hex ruin that rely havily on random generation with build with strict conditions and zero counterplay from other side. Nothing about time frames, u just want to to portray fantasy as reality.I have no idea what this is about.
Edit: You edited your post, mine is based off the original.
How killer can turn off conviction?
Again. Even devs against comparing hexes with other perks. That’s pointless. If u turn off hex, u turn off it forever. U can’t turn off conviction forever being killer.To be honest, I don’t want to discuss it anymore, because comparing RGN hex with non RGN convictions just pointless. Better bring something else to pretend conviction isn’t gream breaking
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@xGodSendDeath said:
Killer has never been easier, you can close your eyes and move around randomly and 4k
Would be nice if people claiming this had some records, so others can see what opponents they are facing, what killers are they playing and what strategy they are using so they build such opinion
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They said it’ll be fixed in next hotfix
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3976683#Comment_3976683
In the video with the OP we're starting at the point they are downing the survivor, a similar time frame would be comparing NOED as they swing on the survivor.
The killer for example might have been able to down the survivor in a different position (or many other possibilities listed in prior posts). The obvious reaction to a conviction getting up is to down them again, potentially waiting out the soul guard. In this scenario, given the proximity of the gates, that's impossible, but a similar comparison would be NOED downing a death hook survivor right below the hook and the survivor saying 'what was I supposed to do in this situation?'. Without knowing what led up to the situation its impossible to answer.
Again.
Can NOED be broken? Can some potential situation happens so NOED will be useless? How often u see situations where person down right to the NOED so rescue is impossible? How many conditionals have to gather up together so survivor will be in situation “I can’t do anything “?
Let’s count:- Person should be dead on hook
- Downed before someone cleansed NOED
- Lose chase
- Killer have to be nearby both of the survivor and NOED
What tools for counterplay game provides?
1. U don’t even need to search NOED that hard as before, cause u litteraly have free aura read in specific range2. As soon as one survivor was affected by NOED, everyone knows about hex. While killer can’t be sure how many people have what kind of build around conviction untill they’ll lose survivor.
4. Everyone knows when NOED is inactive. Killer can’t be sure is conviction active or not.
I play survivor myself. NOED is a huge luck/unlucky perk. The main answer, counter-play exist. U can turn off NOED. U can’t turn off conviction build, because counterplay doesn’t depends on you.
U try to compare hex that rely havily on random generation with build with strict conditions and zero counterplay from other side . It depends on survivor only will this perk work or not. Nothing about time frames, u just want to portray fantasy as reality. -
@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3976677#Comment_3976677
NOED can be broken before killer down someone, or u can break it before someone hooked.
It’s hugely depends by random generation, but u CAN counter it.The video on OP? No counter available.You're giving two entirely different time frames. for comparisons.
What exactly do you mean by different time frames? Current NOED isn’t that broken and no sense in comparing it to new perk
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@AbsoluteMeghead said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3975595#Comment_3975595
I think it's more due to nonsense perks and powers on both sides. Hooking someone at endgame near NOED just means that survivor automatically loses and there's nothing that can really be done. Likewise in this situation there's not much the oni could have done.
NOED can be broken before killer down someone, or u can break it before someone hooked.
It’s hugely depends by random generation, but u CAN counter it.
The video on OP? No counter available.
Unlike NOED, luck and circumstances won't help you deprive a person of an entire conviction build, while the only condition they need is to heal someone for one health state. The only thing to counter conviction it’s on survivors burden, if he didn’t heal someone. Other side don’t have any tools to counter it.NOED now is the most situational bs that helps limited amount of time, consist high risk high reward. Literally no reason to somehow compare it to new perk
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@francesinhalover said:
Fair when killers bring pain rés + dead man overpowered switch every single game
Post: this thing is broken
You: doesn’t matter because other broken thing exist. Also “broken” pain res + dms :
- have only 4 tokens from pain res
- U can counter pain res by not touching gen when killer is hooking surv
- U can tap cold gen before commiting to hot gen so killer can’t trigger dms himself.
Counterplay for conviction:
- Somehow force animation to finish faster, that’s impossible
- Never down survivor when he vaulting (cool being punished by someone’s mistake)
- Never down survivor under pallet (even when he is camping and don’t want to move, forcing u to either leave, or waste time for searching savers so u can use perk, or let teammate easy save
- Don’t u even dare to play in endgame.
- When person is up again, wait 8 sec so he had enough time to prerun to shack/main/safe loop thanks to soul guard
- Waste time finding where he is plottwisting or chilling in exponential range
- Just accept your fate if survivor has some sense of skill and don’t complain about pen res+dms when convenient
Sure. Conditionals seems pretty “fair”
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@francesinhalover said:
Otz? The killer main with a killer bias? Doesnt like a good survivor perk? No way!
Says a lot when he spends the day streaming and barely had good conviction content for the vid.
That being Said 25% is a bit low.
He is the most nice guy on killer main u can imagine, but somehow people still shut down’s someone opinion only because they play opposite style.
Hilarious
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@Skitten56 said:
In their defense, maps are probably the hardest thing for them to balance in the entire game. A lot of thought and effort I'm sure has to go into tile spawns and how strong certain loops / main building will be in respect to those possible spawns given the map size. Not to mention how various aspects of map design all affect the killer roster in different ways.
That being said, they do seem to be especially bad at it. Just looking at the most recent Haddonfield rework is eye opening. That map did neeed changes but BHVR went over the top and did too many things at once. They made it smaller, while also nerfing the houses, as well as removing houses among other things. Now it is probably the most killer sided map in the game. I guess it is no longer survivor sided anymore though so mission accomplished for them.
If looking in truth’s eyes, before they didn't plan to do map at all. It supposed to be extension with main building. Idk why they changed their plans.
This map doesn't have soul at all. Problematic balance - that’s freddy’s map or borgo/farm. But they have concept, idea, and FULL map follows it. This one? Nuh…
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For me personally, I hated him only because it was TOO MUCH of him after release. Same reason why I don't enjoy springtrap either. + bugs.
Now I’m… fine? Sure, if majority claiming he is problematic, maybe he is, for me I don't feel personal disgust anymore. But he is so buggy damn. The only reason I still didn't buy him myself
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@Abbzy said:
Sadly it looks it will be another chucky the devs dont care, they cant fix his biggest bug that made him s-tier in first place and thats kidnap tech so intead they would admit they cant fix it they will call it intended feature not a bug and nerf his kit. What do you expect from them he came as realy strong a fun killer to play as, they made some skins and one is must for someone who wants to play him offten (Ryze) because she doesnt sream all the time and now its time they give survivors they want and thats to nerf him to the killer grounds so he is just different legion. First thing is money as all devs they need that and want that second is what survivors want because they must be majority of the game and then comes killers and everything else. I know its hard to believe it but thats just reality.
I doubt his kidnap tech is actual reason people can’t properly dodge him in solo. I rarely see players on him using it
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I’m fine with not bunning people. Yes, they abuse, ext. But.
How many bug killers do we have? Houndmaster, ghoul, Wesker? I’m pretty sure the majority play Wesker not because of his bugs, they genuinely like his ability and personality.
How many other survivors bugged perks do we have, like Tori’s burden on the shoulder? Last stand?
I feel people shouldn't be punished for using this, I feel devs should take more responsibility and kill switch all of it until issues will be solved. But unfortunately, it means half of the game will be killswitched rn, hah…. And no, I'm not saying this because I play with streetwise myself. Having learned about the bug, I don't touch this perk on principle, and from genrush I maybe can equip hyperfocus only, which is not so easy to abuse in reality withoue tapp’s perk. And playing on killer, I don't report on people despite the fact that they obviously used last stand or streetwise to exploit.
It’s dev’s responsibility, first of all. U can’t force people not to use such opportunity. As well u wasn't able to force people not playing ghoul and judge them by playing “unfair killer”. I hate clown rn, but honestly, none players fault he is braindead now. We know who is in charge of it.
Another question, why they promoted reporting people who played pig when chase bug existed, but on other side prefer to be less persuasive? And why doesn't the hotfix prioritize the issue over working on the three already broken survivor perks that give an unfair advantage? This all looks like a conscious attempt to appease a part of the audience that has long been frustrated after the release of the ghoul and the annoying bugs on the animatronics...
“Here is your time to abuse this broken game lol”
If every patch will be about “who’ll suffer this time”, I’ll be genuinely disappointed… I am already
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3976217#Comment_3976217
My honest opinion is we haven't yet figured out both their optimal usage and their optimal counterplay and we aren't going to do that if they're super limited right out the gate. For a shiny new item, people are barely using them as is. If they adjust them—and I'm sure they will--then cool, but they should figure out what that adjustment should be instead of some rash decision based on a messy week or endless bugs like infinite-refill Streetwise, head-popping Pig, and the addition of zoomzoom Clown. Tensions are high and opinions are spicy right now.
I'm not interested in easy kills. I'm not sweaty. Don't care about stats. I give mercy hatch and screw around with survivors regualrly. I also play survivor. My view as survivor is that I love vials as a concept because they're silly and I can finally take off my sweaty gen build and put on Scene Partner and be stupid again because this game had become miserable as surv. I desperately needed this game to lighten up and, as survivor, these are doing that for me.
Before, I’m sorry, u proposed your opinion in other way. Fine then
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3976210#Comment_3976210
Much light flashlights, some people are terrible with them and get themselves downed trying to blind, and some people are pros and keep the killer perpetually blinded. These will be the same, except I don't think they'll get that popular. I don't know how good you can really get with a smoke cloud. The best use I can figure out for them is to drop one after an unhook if you hear the killer coming back. In that way, they could be good tool to combat tunneling in a very small and still not good enough way.
It's also possible they're making them less limited for awhile for people to get used to them and they'll adjust it later. If they limit them to charges, then Built to Last should affect them. I imagine we'll see the fog version of Lightborn on a future killer too.
And yeah, I do find chaos fun. The game has gotten a little stale. A new toy is a nice change.
But the difference with flashlights u can’t click spamming with them anymore. That’s the point!
Just for example, why I find this item being spammable unhealthy…
In this match where I was killer both Sable and Nea had vials. Sable used them poorly and unfortunately gave me free hooks.
But nea? Oh, she did pretty good job, I wasn’t able to find her. So it was 2 people on death hook before I killed Sable (so some people can’t assume I tunneled her). And because it was basically 3 people in match instead of 4, 2 of them died to quickly.
This Nea was literally sandbagging her teammates by refusing to take appropriate chase herself. Well, her right, but after this her last teammate happily sold her out and showed me her location. I did my job and gifted Feng hatch.
And I had many games like this. Where it’s 3 vs 1 vs 1.That shouldn’t exist at all. Even when it works well for me while I’m playing as killer. BHVR removed stealth mechanic by adding gamma adjust and afk crows, claiming the primary reason is for encouraging teamwork and taking chases that requires some skill.
Now we returned to sandbagging and no skill involving hide and seek era, but they evolved. Don’t find it fun at all. If u simply making them limited use, people will start trying to use them as a way to extract max value. Nothing bad for players who use this item in bad situations. Nothing bad for extra way to prolong time when survivor faces tunneling. Nothing extremely broken for killer so they have valid reasons to whine about it.But damn, it will literally will solve many issues. Less people with accessibility issues having hard time, Spirit, huntress, deathslinger being more playable again, no abuse from good players, less sandbagging from bad players.
Genuinely, just be honest. Do u enjoy it because people are terrible against u using them, and u like this chaos when it’s only bringing some advantage to you, ignoring massive downsides that many people on this forum already encountered? Sorry if that sounded rude. I just want to know the reason why you emphasis that people are generally bad at using the item in your matches and encouraging that by spamming the item is okay.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3976192#Comment_3976192
Because the margin for error is massive, yes, and because the item isn't even in the top half tier for useful items. Four people can bring flashlights and chain blind the killer endlessly every time they make a move. They can also bring Built to Last, which would make the flashlight almost endless in the right hands. What's the difference? It's that the flashlight is way better.
So far they've helped me more as killer than hurt. People think they have a security blanket when they release them so they don't think, and they go in the most obvious direction, usually running straight or taking a right. I've lost a total of one chase because of them, and that's because the other three people ran in to cause chaos. It was a good play, but it won't be the common one. Vials are such a none issue that I'm amazed how much people are upset about them (in a normal context, not an accessibilty one.) I barely even see them being used, and it seems p100s are getting basically none in their bloodwebs.
Imagine if the medkit was a newly introduced item. "No fair! You should bring a self-heal perk for that." Any little change and people flip out. These haven't even had time to find their place in the game yet.
If error issue is massive, maybe encourage people using this item more wisely by making it limited? Or oh no, if u are good in using fog vials, this is mean u can’t abuse them anymore…
Why mechanic that accept people making repeatedly mistakes should exist even? Because someone find chaos instead of normal play “fun”?
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@cogsturning said:
I think the spammable nature is fine and so is the refill because the thing about fog vials is that they're the only survivor item that can hurt as well as help. If used poorly they do either nothing or make things worse, as they can confuse survivors too. People also use them stupidly. I had someone hiding from me the other day. As soon as I got nearby they released the fog, essentially telling me where they were. There's no way to harm yourself like this with a toolbox. They also block aura reading for other survivors as well as the killer. I use Emapthy for map awareness and injured people suddenly disappearing is messing up my ability to keep track of things.
I've also yet to see a whole team of fog vial users. Flashlights are still better for more skilled usage. A team of vial users will probably be in it for the clowning (if this is your vibe please let me join your team).
So spam is fine, cause some people mess up with properly missing such concept?
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schrodinger’s survivor
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@cburton311 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3975145#Comment_3975145
I call BS, its only available on the new characters and not everyone has bought them. Additionally, a few hundred ms of advantage on a vault does not break the game. It might mean that occassionally yes, there's a miss instead of a hit. Big whoop, you lose a few seconds on one chase. It will get fixed but exaggerating wildly about it won't make that happen any faster.
The deathslinger bug on the other hand, if true, would demand it get fixed with morefocus. That is borderline game breaking.
That’s the biggest lie that few ms doesn’t matter. Especially with this perk, that not only make it faster but completely moves your hitbox like in time where vacuum vault was possible.
If few ms never matter in this game, then high ping, finesse, resilience, flicks from killer or “short lunge” instead of the long one to hit through pallets never worked
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It makes you immune to pyramidhead m2 in some cases. Killer has to shoot power in advance of vaulting only to be able to hit at the end.
So lol, they either fake it and u lose or they vault and u lose. Killer knowing timing doesn’t matter anymore
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3972513#Comment_3972513
The 2.5 meter radius is large enough for you to get stunned even if they are vaulting away from you. But you need to be right against the window vault location (does not work at pallets, only works at window vaults).
The problem I got people aware of it and avoiding at all. One person prefer to take a hook stage instead of vaulting in front of shack’s window lol.
So they can break any timing in chase with 50/50 pallets later
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@oecrophy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3976072#Comment_3976072
Tbh, I don’t think it’s that bad or unfair. I actually like feeling gen pressure as killer — knowing that if I mess up too much, gens will pop and I’ll lose. Sure, hard tunneling often flips the pressure onto the survivor team, but that’s also where intense and fun interactions come from: good teamplay, solid cover, smart plays.
Sure, if you define “unfair” as one specific, “chosen” person not making it out, then yup — maybe it’s "unfair" to that person.
(as soon as fairness is measured only based on individual players instead of the whole team.) But that’s just part of the game. Someone has to die each match. As a survivor, I think you should always evaluate the team result at the end. (I know, that’s really hard and frustrating in solo queue sometimes.) Just my opinion, idk
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/446940/antigenrush-system
Something like a "weaker basekit Deadlock" (or basekit Grim Embrace or whatever) would probably need to be heavily limited to certain killers.
Just imagine playing Nurse and getting a free Deadlock on top — most groups already can't keep up, especially if I'm not even running gen regression but things like Agitation + Franklin's, etc.
That kind of basekit effect would be way too strong on certain killers, especially against casual players who don't instantly jump on the next gen 20 meters away but instead just sit near the blocked one waiting it out.
You'd probably need to exclude specific killers from that entirely.
People will keep considering it as unfair, so I refer to both terms in such sense. U can counter both tunneling and genrush if u can, but it’s genuinely hard. And that’s the point. Put other side in biggest disadvantage and force mistake due to stress
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Sometimes it makes game easier. Sometimes not. But I just don’t like chasing bots or completely ignore 4th member that still can do gens.
More annoying when survivor disconnect because of every even the most small inconvenience in the game -
I use maps for windows of opportunity, but only if I randomly got them from chests.
But yeah, these changes with charges are unnecessary and overcomplicated everything. Probably the only reason why they nerfed fd as well
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Until tunnelling still the main way for killer to put pressure gen rush has to exist. Both groups should have tools for win in a such way, even if it doesn’t seem fair
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Despite pyramidhead being broken with his flicks, his reworked addons like a fresh breath of air
U can choose full aura (lethal pursuer, nowhere to hide, zanshin tactic, I’m all ears + aura addon that reveals survivors for 8 seconds)
or gen kick, like trail of torment, nowhere to hide, eruption + call of brine/corrupt intervention. For addons I genuinely love his tape addon -
@oecrophy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3976021#Comment_3976021
Most “ties” don’t come from clean, balanced gameplay — they come from chaos, mistakes on both sides, and lucky timing that just happen to cancel each other out.
You rarely create a tie through intentional, smart decisions. The game isn’t designed that way. It’s binary at its core: you kill or escape, you hook or rescue, you finish a gen or you don’t. There’s no real neutral ground.
Sure, you can force a tie — like letting two go as killer — but that’s meta behavior, not a natural PvP outcome.
A tie usually just means both sides played inefficiently. If you play efficiently, you either win or lose. normally: You don’t tie.
Killer can get pretty easy and pathetic tie by tunneling one guy whole game and then catching other in endgame and hooking him in place where it’s impossible to rescue. Not gonna lie, such situations happened with me when I was killer. In 50% of such cases I felt so bad as player that let person go or just didn’t respond anything, because I admit my play was extremely poor. Or in contrary, it was sfw that used unfair play themselves and I don’t regret about same treatment.
Survivors also can get pretty easy 2 escapes just because killer played “fair”. No skill encouragement, pure gen efficiency and killer decision to not being sweaty and unbearable. I also feel bad when escape such trials, because don’t feel I deserved it.
So, ties purely evolves around killer being too bad/too nice.
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@oecrophy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3976014#Comment_3976014
He s probably about how a lot of survivor perks can be countered through base killer kit alone—and, I have to agree. With the right decisions, you can completely shut down entire perk builds. (full sabo squads with slug etc) DS can be avoided by slugging too. Tons of perks only activate after an unhook—Dead Hard, Deliverance, whatever—can all be denied through full slugs.
So ye: the base killer kit can hard-counter a lot of survivor perks. Whole builds, even.
But it’s wild roulette.
(Tes is describing the experience accurately here. (And ye, the new perk is just aother fun-fun toy stuff for survivors again.)
.. survivors also have tons of counter-perks for every scenario, and the killer never knows what’s coming. It’s a dice game.
Always.
You slug because you expect DS? No DS—but they have Unbreakable.
As killer, you’re constantly stuck in a second-chance roulette, where you just have to hope your current move is betting on the right color.And then you run into a strong SWF that has everything stacked for every situation.
So yes: the killer kit can counter a lot.
And honestly? I think it’s still not enough.There are so many situations where you’re just completely powerless—just like tes I quoted here lready pointed out.
That’s what I’m trying to say.
Yes. I’m playing myself the killer who counter A LOT of builds. Pyramidhead has potential to shut down many “funny perks”.
But still, survivors have option not being tormented and it would require skill from me to force such situation. I also sacrifice being to able to use 50% of meta perks from killers. Dead man’s switch, surge, pop goes the whisle, sbfl, bbq aren’t good option. I really rarely bring scourge + dms combo on him and usually have only eruption as regress perk. And using eruption isn’t that easy, because requires high pressure or 3gen strategy play.
People still can win if I’ll do mistake, or decide to get easy on them and put less pressure/don’t tunnel in actually good game for survivors. Simply, they can simply be better than me in chase ( I personally struggle on rpd a lot). So, yes, it seems kinda…. Fair? I also sacrifice something choosing killer that can counter many builds. Phead is an old killed and was balanced in such term. I’m just unhappy with what they did with his flicks and how his 4.2 nerf was released along with “pre shift W” meta thanks to fog vials. But anyway, I just can adapt and punish survivors for avoiding chases to secure one kill by unfunny strategy.
But I don’t find it fair when oni can’t even insta pick up survivor he put down. Or when huntress with poor mobility just suffer because of fog vials. That’s simply unhealthy
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I doubt fair “ties” possible in game as high frequent cases. So many bugs, RG dependencies, unclear MMR system just makes it impossible
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@crogers271 said:
I'm going to say what I said last time this came up.
I love that our community is comprised of some people who think BHVR is so bad at coding that they are incapable of addressing simple bugs, and others who believe they are such masters of coding that they can put in a more complex, intricate system that has avoided the notice of hackers and 10k+ hour players for many years.
as I know, the current MMR system likely to match opinion of first group of people. I just highly doubt they simply have enough time to “manipulate” mmr system
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@AbsoluteMeghead said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3975620#Comment_3975620
Do you feel the same when a killers powers negate entire survivor builds or is this a one way situation?
I can’t imagine how any killer power can negotiate survivors ability to win.
If killers power can negotiate squads with headon, sabo, power struggle, dh, or ect., well, it’s few killers, they aren’t extremely popular, and again, u still can win.
From killers perspective, if survivor has soul guard, unbreakable and new michone perk, oni can’t even pickup because cool-down lasts longer than 25% recovery progress. Same with fool stack sfw with flashlights and power struggle, why survivor always trying to be get down under pallete. Same with fog vials and range killer, myers, ghostface, and spirit.
In what cases killer power can negotiate skill from survivor and make them simply waste time ? I’m curious -
Just imagine
- Lightfooted, iron will, lightweight, quick and quiet.
- Dance with me, quick and quite, iron will, lithe.
- Sabo with buffed breakout, fog vial, tool boxes, and again, iron will xd.
Full sfw with 4 fog vials with infinite charges applied to this…
I already see that people saying “they are useless” changing their mind. I’m genuinely happy that for some reason I haven’t met such SFWs yet. Of course it doesn't mean that u have to ban the item because some people can abuse it, but calling this item useless or worthless and max “annoying” in current state is like saying that old flashlight spam clicks was healthy and nice mechanic. Underestimating is bad usually, especially in terms of balance in asymmetrical game.
Maybe I’m just a person with “poor tracking” or with accessibility issues. But for some reason, the only argument that people who consider this item harmless use is circles around people using them incorrectly
Pls, just return to items having limited charges. Both for maps, keys, and fog vials
- Lightfooted, iron will, lightweight, quick and quiet.
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@CompetitifDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3975412#Comment_3975412
Ofc u can still outplay him, its not like hes blight or smth, someone whos way faster. You can still play most loops the same since hindering isn't common or much of a threat to stop you from making tiles. Him being faster is different than survivors being slower
If player on clown has at least some skill, u simply never be able to stay in 90% of every loop against him. He can be 5.6 with three pwyf stacks, batteries and rapid brutality. It's simply unhealthy.
His changes on slow down bottles was half reverted. If he uses both of them, u are helpless.
Clowns still actively use purple bottles. If not, well, they miss half of his potential being unbearable