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If survivor catched my attention, I really wants them and only them. Even if it means I will lose by tunneling person with 9 k hours. I will only chase and try to learn how to outplay his to improve later. Especially when they continue to ask for chase after unhook. Sometimes I even catch them and let go in endgame, if I had good mood.
If I made 2 kills, I firstly kill other survivor and in 100% let good player a hatch.
I have soft spot for Claudette, Yoichi, Felix, Kate and Rebecca. If they asking me something, I barely can reject
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3982375#Comment_3982375
Tunneling existed since the start of DBD. I’m pretty sure the reason of mass frustration rn is poor technical release of TWD.
Except the problems didn't start here, and DBD has had a survivor shortage for longer.
Not to mention the knock-on effect it has on general balance, which is also causing frustrations on the killer side.
And since when we have survivors shortage, when majority of players playing this role? Even looking at night light, proportion of survivors x4 higher than of killers.
No stats proving survivors unpopular role at all. Killers queue more likely having struggles cause of MMR issues or server dependency because they are still mainly hosting lobby (at least searching completely depends from them)
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3982375#Comment_3982375
Tunneling existed since the start of DBD. I’m pretty sure the reason of mass frustration rn is poor technical release of TWD.
Except the problems didn't start here, and DBD has had a survivor shortage for longer.
Not to mention the knock-on effect it has on general balance, which is also causing frustrations on the killer side.
What exactly are you hinting at?
I don't see a direct answer to my position, only "it's still bad anyway".
I'm really curious to hear actual argument why one game that is often called the most blatant copy of DBD has much less tunneling problems, despite faster survival deaths and the lack of any kind of protection from tunneling in the base kit.
In DBD, people rely too much on base kit of the role. Both sides. That’s the actual problem for me. They expect game itself dealing with their issues
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Many people try to argument with “tryhards will be in casual anyway” but then I just want to ask why in other games rank modes exist and that's fine.
Because game designer completely reworked their rank and it is actually hard to be on top.
We already have mmr. And if looking at reality, majority of people on high MMR is still pretty casual players. I also consider myself pretty casual, even playing only on two killers and doing “hard” challenges (e.g one perk, no perks, no tunnel, win streaks, not dodging sfw gen rushers or bully sfws) and constantly see people with over 3k hours experience while having less then 1k myself. And that’s why u can get hard sfw being on absolutely weak killer or ultra hard try nurse with 100+ streak being in solo.
And that’s why when killer face with comp team in pubs, 95% of them would likely to lose. Despite probably having same MMR system.We need to increase mmr pull to make comfort zone in ranking. So someone like otzdarva, having 14k hours never face with 400 hours survivor who even didn't play a lot against killer he played in lobby. Even me was getting common accusation of cheats, because players doesn't know pyramidhead can flick. So it will be actually comfort zone, that less motivates for “mid try hards” to switch to casual mods.
We simply can make rank mode and casual mode completely different. Like for casual people can vote to ban certain perks/killers/items, so S tier killers or full sfw genrush physically can not use their max potential in casual mode. While in rank mode the way to count your MMR will depend on rules close to comp ones, e.g. limited perks depends on killer tier, being spawned on specific maps against specific killers, no anticamp system, limited aura perks and moreover.
And for actually motivating players to stay on rank mode, game should encourage for this. More bp modifiers, charms, leader boards. Actual reputation.
But this will require so much rework. And BHVR barely can normally release chapter without turning it to cheater DDoSing guest for advertising DLC. What we expect? They won’t do this. It will upset many casual players as well, or pseudo try hards, because they can not cheese anymore or blaming “unfair tunneling or sfws” to their constant loses. No one wants to admit skill issue. Majority of “high MMR” players even can’t admit they more likely casual ones. And while it’s hidden, they pretend they are soooo good actually and that’s why their opinion only valid one.
And few want to give a voice to really experienced and strong players. Because neither BHVR nor the majority will like their opinion about the game.
The only way to realise u are on top of MMR cap - when u see TTVs with more than 5k hours in this game,
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3982362#Comment_3982362
Tunnelling will kill the game in the long run.
Tunneling existed since the start of DBD. I’m pretty sure the reason of mass frustration rn is poor technical release of TWD.
In every asymmetrical game with same genre tunneling is so common thing no one complain on.
Identity V (had peak of 80 000 people), so probably the second popular game on same genre, has the same system. No anticamp, no antitunnel, yet survivors can win even after hard tunneling. Because they have clear MMR and ranking system, and they never will face with killer they can't potentially dodge by skill.
DBD is only game, where people toxic towards probably the most evident way of gameplay for a win, e.g. genrush or else. Against good coordinated team tunnelling is something so casual, so doesn't impose threat even. For solo, that’s another story. Because as much as I’m getting tunneled myself, teammates instead of giving me free anticamp going around and freely pause this timer for killer. And no one doing gens. So nice.
9 years of the game, constant buff for anti slug- anti tunnel, and majority still can't dodge the simplest (because everyone knows tunneling for noobs, isn’t?) strategy in this game. Because they loop for 10 sec already and their only hope is ds. Not your every game against ghoul or nurse with blight to justify it yk
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Maybe not spending on their game will made them actually think. At least I didn't buy anything since recent anniversary and not planning to, even if it mean I have to unlock more than 10 characters yet
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probably another nerf to pig, while nurse or ghoul will don’t care about this changes at all.
More A/S tier killers in lobbies then
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I’m pretty sure no one needs apology.
I can ‘t play the game cause 3rd day my ping is above 200.
BHVR. Deal with your performance and safety of the game, pls :(
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@TheSingleQuentinMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/453650/why-the-silence-on-franklins-demise
If med kits, toolboxes, or whatever have you are overpowered, a perk should not be the solution to that. Otherwise perks and items exist to counter other perks and items, and that absolutely sucks. At that point the game is a rock paper scissors match that started in the loadout menu instead of the actual match.
I doubt devs will ever nerf builds around items because it will kill build for last for instance and other perks along with items
It’s completely fine to provide people perks and strategies to counterplay. Game always was about How lucky your RGN is
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@MDRSan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3982034#Comment_3982034
dropping the item makes its lose charge?
Sure doesn't. That's why I said HALF the effect for free. HALF.
the whole reason franklin's was hated was not the item dropping but the fact it made it lose charge ???????
Was that the whole reason Franklins was hated? Did you take a poll? How many Survivors responded?
yea made me drop my item, woopty doo, im just gonna pick it back up, the whole franklin's thing was the charge lol
No matter how many killer players say 'oh, dropping your item in some random freaking location is perfectly fine - it doesn't inconvenience you or otherwise prevent you from using the item in any way!' it's simply not going to be true.
No one tells it should be simple. People asking why they should picking perk for a slot while this isn’t making stuff complicated for opposite side lol.
This “killer players” usually play survivor even more often than u think lol.
And then people complain while killer bring full aura or slowdown build. I wonder why
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No servers for dbd exist on Russia. They all connected to Frankfurt.
And half of the “russian” are players from Ukraine, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan and many other countries where Russian second popular language.That's funny I received both slurs and racist offence from both sides. Like “typical Russian player” or “lame western”. Being Asian at that time… that's just funny.
No one better. And looking at your post, u kinda worthy to get type of people u receive in lobby.
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Ignore such people. Not worthy. I just hide chat if I feel I don’t want to deal with any salt
Higher MMR, less toxic people. Just my observation
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@ShanoaLegendaryPlz said:
Anyone notice they nerfed all 3 of leatherface's perks? Barbeque used to have the extra bp incentive, knockout used to help killers avoid hooking the entire game, and now franklins cant empty the one guy's brown medkit he couldve used to heal himself later
they nerfed insidious long time ago …
(Probably the true 4th perk for old bubba’s mainers)
The unloved child in the family, it turns out xd
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@MDRSan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3981916#Comment_3981916
So what's the counterplay to Franklins?
Don’t rely on items, because as well as lightborn this perk doesn't deny your ability to do main objectives?
Survivors meta is a way to deprive killer pressure. Killers meta is a way to deprive survivors resources. That’s a constant switching top role competition between two roles and denying optional counterplay is ridiculous.
U can’t prevent gen regression as well as killer can’t prevent healing. But u can make it harder to deal with. That's the point of gen rush perks or anti heal meta. And god damn, literally no one cares on opposite side struggling because it's competitive game! Your opponent never cares because u playing solo or when u faced with 4 sfw. And they shouldn’t . Because they didn't forced u to play with them.
Stop imposing imaginary rule set to justify personal struggling until another perk/killer power/item doesn't break core mechanic and can be abused. FD isn't equality of old eruption, or other broken perks.
Actual unhealthy example is the current clown changes because it's deny any skill on him, while it’s so hard to counterplay in comparassion. Or current conviction who in stack of 2-3 other perks can work not as anti slug how it supposed to be, but denial of hooks after survivor lost chase if killer accidentally stuck in animation or were forced to be distracted. Because it takes cheap 7 seconds.
U want to hear counterplay of FD? Personally, after I noticed killer have it and if I were able to rescue my item I put it on specific side of the map. So after hit I can return to the left item safely and heal myself. If it was toolbox I use it instantly to not lose charges. I do it for my teammates in solo even. It makes harder to use items, but not impossible. And that's the main point of perks on opposite side. Isn't? But current FD provide this “counterplay” for free. So, maybe it’s time to stop behave like FD after triggering don’t let u heal for the rest of the trial? Like it was unhealthy game breaking bs that can define how game will finish? -
On other post people told me that FD is toxic and items on survivors never should have counterplay, because if people bring them to the trial, it meant to be used. Same with current conviction btw. They just don’t want counterplay to exist, because how dare u simplifying match while they doing completely the same.
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I feel sad, but I hope this moment was embarrassing enough for devs to reconsidering their safety.
Like, without joke. People can DDoS servers that easily. What’s next? Massive fraud of accounts for further reselling for more cheaters?
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3981621#Comment_3981621
he can vault as the only potential of some kind of anti loop power.
Why should have have it, when he has free injury? He shouldn't have any antiloop power.
Such a killer should have difficulty of downing survivors as Legion. Ghoul's kit simply doesn't make sense imo.
Just free injury and high mobility would make him a good killer.So, we have Legion. He is one of the weakiest killer. Not a lot of people playing him on usual basic. If Ghoul struggles as well as him, no one will buy him.
New killers will never be equivalent of having “hard time” as old ones. Someone call it power creep, I call it marketing.
He will get SM treatment later if hate train will continue, don’t worry
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3981586#Comment_3981586
It's not like I asked for nerf for his vault. I have bigger issue with his full mid dash cancel.
Another thing is you are comparing vault actions itself, which may seem same/similar, but you ignore how quickly killer can prepare their power and how quickly they reach pallet.Kaneki definetly is better than Wesker at those, he pulls his power faster and he actually hold survivor in place during the leap for a moment. Wesker doesn't have that.
Wesker have an issue of vaulting pallet when survivor is dropping the pallet. Often bounce from pallet and needs to use another dash to vault → even slower. Also survivor is free to run away immediately after dropping pallet against Wesker/Legion, which is not true for Kaneki.
I mean, but overall with his kit I don't really understand why he has vault in first place. He can bite over objects/pallets/windows, so unlike Legion he doesn't really need to get on other side.
I would love to see stats about how often survivor is downed within 8 +/- seconds after Legion, Chucky, Wesker, Kaneki performs their special vault. I would expect Kaneki to win by a lot.he can vault as the only potential of some kind of anti loop power. That’s simple
All of his other power with that silly auto aim and leaps are entirely meant as way of mobility around the map.
Actually, I’m thinking BHVR attempted some vertical gameplay on him. That’s why his auto aim so busted. I’m pretty sure it was created for climbing and sliding, not free first hit scan. And enraged mod probably was for the same reason here. He was supposed to be another S tier probably, but with extreme high skill ceiling. Or maybe it's my simple phantasy.
But then they realised they need to completely rework many hitboxes on every map and introduce completely different game mechanic. While they simply don’t have resources. And then they just “well, just let him have this free hit and vaults so he’ll stay S tier as we planned”
For me he is completely same as SM. Great attempt for introducing something new for designing new mechanic /strategy, but it turns out to be just miserable experience. I’m not a big fun of Tokyo Ghoul franchise, but it was my first anime. And I was so disappointed they missed such potential so just refused to buy him. And maybe that's why I feel so frustrated when people complain on something least important as his cheap anti loop. Like… we clearly have something even worse here
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I don’t quit, but I play much less. After engine changes my ping constantly at 150-300 ms for no reason, and probably it caused by performance deterioration. Pretty sure all people who live far away from servers placement struggle as well.
So I have to wait until I’ll return to other country (I spend half of the year in other region) to have some resemblance of normal gameplay
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3981535#Comment_3981535
Pure skill issue from survivors
Well, issue is you want from survivors something you don't want from ghoul. I would say difficulty of playing against and playing as should be equal, but that's not the case.
Right now ghoul can counter windows, safe pallets, hold W, protection hits. Also has free hit, one of best mobility on top of it and is very easy to play, because he simply doesn't need to know where to target his power.
So either there should be easier and better counterplay for survivors, or ghoul should become more difficult to play as.
I want to remove his ability to cancel dash, because that actually gives a counterplay for survivors (double back) and ghoul will have to know, where to target his leap to end near survivor.
I think it would be hilarious to see ghoul zoom past me, because he dashed too close.Same with windows. They all stuck in same position after vault.
But how fast they start vault is different for each of them (Ghoul is fastest), Wesker also often gets blocked in front of pallet instead when survivors drops it.
Legion has by far weakest vault, you can't be serious trying to say they are same…No info on Wiki about difference in vaulting pallets/windows on both of them. It considered as obstacles and have same duration
They have an equal modifier of leap/bound speed (14 m/s)
If u really want to see all numbers… One person already did it here on forum
U also can block prompt for vault and force Kaneki to bite u instead of letting him vaulting, as it was in video I linked. In Wesker case, u cannot prevent his vaulting.
Again. I’m up to changing him. But his vaults is the least thing u should worry about definetely
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@DarkStrife said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3981525#Comment_3981525
Problem is that hes not fun to play on both sides, brain dead easy on killer side, not fun on survivor side. Both sides are suffering here. On killer there is no challenge using him and hes so over powered hes not fun to play as survivor. This isn't just a survivor sided issue here.
That’s where I’m agree with and that's why I’m waiting for his rework. I’m against boring braindead killers. But people who complaining on his anti loop for me just have a such a weird point, because after few months it ‘s not that hard to understand that the only weakness he has is force him to play as m1 after he injured u.
And devs probably will listen such people and nerf him by removing of more tokens or something like that. Fine then, personally I don’t care because I don’t playing him. But this won't stop Kaneki from being annoying at all, because the real problem with its mechanics remains. His “antiloop” is the least problematic to go against and the least easiest to play on him, yet people focus on it so much it seems they try to justify their shift w against him as only valid strategy. And that ‘s why person above got so much hate by explaining probably the only available advice how to deal with frustration against this killer. And that person even wasn’t that harsh with argument as me.
We’ll just get another Clown then. The way of his terrible rework was caused by multiple complaints about his slow down bottles and that people can’t counter it, while on killer player side “it'sso easy to spam with them”. They changed it thinking it will work, but he started to be even more unbearable. Do we really wants to repeat such changes again and again to create more SM or Clown parody? Ghoul should be definitely changed, but not in terms of his anti- loop. It's like focusing on small plastic bag laying on the ground while few metered from u there's a whole overturned bucket littering the street.
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3981525#Comment_3981525
On this video u clearly can see that their models finishes vault animation at the same place
I said window, have you ever trying to window tech Legion? It's so easy and he can't down you.
Also as I said, Kaneki has by far best window vault out of all of them. They just don't work same.On this video u can find some tips about how countering it, maybe u’ll struggle less in loops after this
Not sure if it was under your comment, but tip 2 simply doesn't work. He is able to pull his power back against and will down you at least on god pallets anyway unless you have something else nearby.
I disagree with tip 1 unless you have perk for healing, it's simply not worth it. Thing is Kaneki is going to bite you anyway, even if you are injured to keep him enraged.
Tip 3 works to some extent, but that doesn't change the fact those are limited and can often be just mind gamed. Kaneki is not 110% killer, so he doesn't really struggle with those like Huntress for example.
I provide here is countered by “but that's hard”.
Well, I am fine with his counterplay being hard, if he would be equally hard to play. But he is not, he is very easy killer.
I think counterplay against all top tier killers is hard, because all of them are unique compare to classic M1 killers, but those killers also need some practice (Nurse, Blight, Billy, Wesker). I just can't say same about Kaneki.
To be fair last video is actually good. Especially the way you can prevent kindap tech and force him to bite instead of vault. I would say this supports the idea of staying injured imo, because you can force him to bite you.Same with windows. They all stuck in same position after vault.
Ghoul in loop playing as wesker, but without dashes. Same bodyblicks, same cooldowns, same counterplay.
Taking free first hit? Yes, that’s his actual problem along with kidnap tech. Antillop? Pure skill issue from survivors
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3981365#Comment_3981365
U can vault the same pallet after his vault, so basically it works same as against wesker/legion
It harder than Wesker and Legion is not even possible comparison. Legion vaults way further from window and can't down you with it, it's very easy to vault back.
Kaneki can down/injure you and it's harder to time it than against Wesker. While Kaneki is on top of it pallet, if you are anywhere close to it at that moment, it doesn't matter how far you run it will down you, so you need to actually run away and then turn around to vault back.
That's basically last resort if you know you will get downed anyway, but not really something you can do everytime.
And many, really many survivors just used to shift w. Because it was always the wisest counterplay for killers
Well, sometimes you have to reach another loop. Especially when Kaneki blocks your window with Bamboozle…
And because how easy kaneki is with his full cancel, you can't even double back against it.Idk why u sincerely believe, that he can auto put you down. If he use his power
because he can, you will be downed on majority of safe loops… Wesker doesn't hold you in place with his vault, it takes longer to prepare and slower to reach the pallet. Those two are not even close to be the same.
His cooldown after vaulting shortens only when u have LOS while he is in enranged mode. Not all of the time.
Oh right, because it's so difficult to be in enraged mode as Kaneki and definetly not something you can keep whole game….
Remove kidnap tech and he is the weakiest antiloop killer that was presented since last chapters
He wouldn't be anywhere close to be weakest antiloop killer in general, but he should be considering free injury and high mobility. That's the whole premise for it.
My main issue is his full cancel, because it makes him so easy to play. Get rid of that and I am fine with him, but I am not going to be bothered to play against him now. I will gladly take all Blights/Weskers/Nurses in the game over game against Kaneki.On this video u clearly can see that their models finishes vault animation at the same place
On this video u can find some tips about how countering it, maybe u’ll struggle less in loops after this
Another tips
I don't really wanna discuss it anymore because any counterplay of this killer I provide here is countered by “but that's hard”.
How I supposed to answer on this. “Learn how to counterplay?”
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It harder than Wesker and Legion is not even possible comparison. Legion vaults way further from window and can't down you with it, it's very easy to vault back.
I did it myself multiple times… nothing crazy -
I feel BHVR can’t allow really original mechanic on killers anymore, until they add vertical gameplay and completely rework stealth for killers. We just stuck here with same recycled powers.
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@Royval said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3981479#Comment_3981479
yeah definitely. I’m getting RPD and Autohaven (favorite maps) every 20 or so games and it’s frustrating with map offerings being gone. The same maps in rotation it seems.
I personally love Hawkins and find with Midwich on both sides. But Autoheaven…
I was spawned on survivor on Wretched Shop yesterday, killer had extremely good 3 gen and close to them only 3 pallets were spawned.
It basically was such a stupid dead zone without any chances for win. I really hate RGN in this game sometimes. Despite finding racoon problematic map still they at least have some logic in pallets generation from which both sides can be sure
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Actually I noticed after map offering changes somehow the generation of map realms changed.
One day I can see red forest and swamp only
Another I’m stuck on Hawkins and Midwich
Or other maps, and they repeat every 2nd- 3rd game, doesn't depend are u on survivor or killer
Tbh I already forgot how to play on haddonfield, greenveele, old Ormond or Saloon with RPD. They have rarest chance personally for me and I can be sure I’m about to loose there on Killer, just because I almost forgot how to play any tiles there
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@francesinhalover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3981234#Comment_3981234
it's almost like they are friends and hens was kinda forced to do those things, because by the end otz just says bye hens thanks and they barely did anything usefull for the video.
Yeah the perk can get you up, but you need tenacy, boon heal , soulguard + the perk.
Yeah obviously if you are in a pallet stun situation and the killer cant pick you up you have time to get up, but it still requires healing someone else or yourself. But i asume "yourself" isn't intented here.Being, “forced” to say it…. “Barely did anything useful”
I’m just interested, are u his mod or Hens told u himself that he was forced?
Or u just have some kind of “bias” in which you like to blame others?
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3981074#Comment_3981074
Slight issue is it simply doesn't work… Basically none of it.
Ghoul has no chase power besides fast vaults.
Yeah, that's just not true, he can use his power on larger loops to get down with how low his fatigue is and it's kinda easy when he can just cancel his power next to survivor.
Smaller loops you can simply mind game, because he is normal movement speed. People are acting like he is Huntress and actually struggle with rock loops… No, he doesn't
If he does fast vault, dont be out of position.
What does that even mean? If survivor drops a pallet when he has LoS, he can just vault targeting survivor and survivor is just dead unless pallet is unsafe. Nothing to do about it. If it is safe loop and he is nearby, then you usually can't even greed it.
Funny is I can tell by animation when he cancels his power (how tentacles move), so I try to wait under pallet for cancel and then drop it, but he does it so fast he is actually able to cancel and pull out the power again to vault anyway…
U can vault the same pallet after his vault, so basically it works same as against wesker/legion. If he is not in enraged mode he always plays as m1 in every possible loop, so his core powerf is eating distance between loops or in open field. And many, really many survivors just used to shift w. Because it was always the wisest counterplay for killers. But he is just created different and requires some positioning knowledge. Or good map rgn…
Both him and Wesker vaulting for 1.5 seconds and has same cooldown after. After infection Wesker also applies permanent hindered, Ghoul also applies hindered after biting but for 0.5 sec. He is not special in terms of vaulting. Idk why u sincerely believe, that he can auto put you down. If he use his power
His cooldown after vaulting shortens only when u have LOS while he is in enranged mode. Not all of the time. And this LOS for targetting is 3-4 metres, not really a lot until u directly stay on. And the trickiest thing u can abuse it but standing in right position after his vault to immediately go beside him and vault on opposite side.
I don’t play ghoul myself and still against buying him because I’m greatly disappointed about how buggy he is, but I encountered ghoul many times as survivor. Not some baby killers, a lot of had p20- p50. If u have good loop and u are injured he have to play as m1 killer. Without bamboozle and his centipede addon he has pretty pathetic anti loop, and the only reason why he is so op in solo is his mobility and free first hit scan. His anti loop isn’t problematic a lot and provides counterplay. He literally the first killer who lose tokens of his power after breaking the pallet.
I lost against him by many reasons, but definetely not because of his vaulting. And I’m not extremely experienced survivor even. U just need to follow simple
- Keep distance in loop even
- Never mindless shift w against him, because he has free mobility
I’m not telling here ghoul is extremely easy to go against and that he shouldn't be reworked (for me they need completely rework his autoaim) . But people claiming he is unloopable and providing his vaulting as arguement to this…. just, how u play against wesker then? While Wesker has even greater potential for outplaying in loop, and only one thing that makes him weakier is poor mobility and actual skill involved requirements…
Remove kidnap tech and he is the weakiest antiloop killer that was presented since last chapters. Many people trying to point on his vault as the main problem, devs listening them, punishes him by losing tokens and etc. But I bet it won’t fix the actual ghoul issue. He should be addressed and reworked in completely different way
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Along with it I would like to ask for petition to rename the game as Bugs By Daylight on the 1st April
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I decided to play 100 games only with one perk on my favourite killer.
Don’t feel any guilt losing anymore. And improve my skill at the same time. People may consider such move as extremely anxious and hard, but it learns to accept loses, at the same time improving yourself. And u don't feel bad at all about tunneling someone, surprisingly. And u don’t hard tunnel /focus on aggressive gameplay. Trying to more wisely put pressure on the map.
I also can play using DBD Randomizer to makes game funnier, or ask my friend to sit with me in Discord and just yapping about the game
Finally, switching to survivors also a great way to relax. If u feel frustrated, it is fine leaving this game at all until they figure out many bugs
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being recovered from dying state until being able to insta picked up takes 30.4 seconds
With conviction it will take 7.6 sec (25%)
To fully recovery from unbreakable u need to spend 24 sec
With conviction + unbreakable u can pick yourself up with 6 seconds
Conviction + exponential - 4 seconds
So, 7 (if we take only one perk) sec is enough to pick yourself up.
— If u were down in open field and killer knows someone in the lobby has flashlight
— If u were down under the pallet
— If u crawled to the window and killer accidentally vaulted because of broken button (recovery time after hit + double vault)
— Wesker used his power and throwed u to the some kind of texture (5 seconds of recovery time + few sec to go to you)
— Oni in dash right before finishing of his power
– Any down made by Victor and not Charlotte
— When survivor was catched by trap from trapper
— Any down from Artist, Huntress, Trickster,Springtrap, PyramidHead on distance.
— If Deathslinger decided to reload.
And much more situations where killer didn’t slug, but wasn’t able simply instantly pick u up.
Why even in potential we need to allow such extreme silly scenarios? Because u wish so? Even if it happens 1 out of 10 games, such situations simply shouldn't exist. It's not about slug. Sluggers live u more than for 15 seconds or wait for bleed out. In such cases this is absolutely fair perk.
In cases I mentioned above it’s simply punishing killer playing the game.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3981100#Comment_3981100
Despite unbreakable and ds being meta, they directly exist how they supposed to - counterplay of slugging and tunnelling. And after some nerfs this perks are good and balanced around pub games. While conviction can bring broken events.
This is my entire point: What, exactly are these broken events you talk about?
So far, you've only objected to the idea that "but survivors can stand back up and can't be slugged", which is why I push back and say that unbreakable did/does that. In order for conviction to be a problem, then, you need to have a situation where picking yourself up in 8 seconds and then having to go back down again 30 seconds later is substantially more valuable than just getting back up 24 seconds later (with unbreakable). And you have yet to show that.
With a lurking flashlight, you get at least 24 seconds because the killer is already chasing someone else. The extra time doesn't come into play.
On otz video it was a moment when killer just broke a pallete and person already up. Just stop claiming it’s hard to accomplish. Finish healing (not healing for a whole health state even) isn’t that hard, nothing hard about abusing this perk, and people here provide nerf that will counter only specific scenario when killer can’t pick up because he stuck in animation.
Never once have I said this is hard to accomplish, or that it takes skill. It takes an insane amount of investment by the survivor. In fact, it takes basically an entire 4 perk loadout to do that once. And, as I've said before, the tradeoff is that you don't get any anti-tunnel protection (since you aren't guaranteed to heal), you don't get any gen rush ability (so if you aren't chased/chosen by the killer this doesn't do anything), you don't have any chase perks.
The survivor is on the other side of a thrown pallet and the killer has a few seconds extra chase in one very specific case. This is, effectively, a 4 perk version of Smash Hit and you're losing your mind over it.
Is it that hard make conviction takes 15-20 sec instead of 8 so it won’t punish killers when they obviously didn’t slug???
You're ignoring the gigantic drawbacks on this perk. Why would anyone ever use a perk that has an activation requirement, and automatically downs you 30 seconds after using it (which is basically unavoidable), to save 4 or 6 extra seconds over unbreakable by itself?
This would literally make Conviction into "Unbreakable with extra steps" and it would be yet another dead on arrival perk.
or u simply don’t understand in what cases it’s absolutely game balance breaking
Well, so far every example you've given has been exactly the same with unbreakable, or with a chase perk instead of conviction. In fact, you could replace the stack of all 4 perks that are pretty much required for Conviction to work like this with exactly one of Unbreakable, Sprint Burst, Lithe, Head On, or Smash Hit, and the result is not only much more consistent, it's an easier build to deal with situations where Conviction simply isn't going to work out (like, for example, the killer hard tunneling one survivor out and you never get to heal to activate it).
Someone already posted a video on this forum when person picked himself up for free and escaped, while killer was stuck in oni’s animation and basically wasn’t able to do anything.
Good, you saw that. That was the extremely niche situation I was referring to. Here's everything that needed to happen for that to be possible. (If any of these had gone differently, it wouldn't have worked for the survivor):
- Every perk of the 4 they brought was necessary for that outcome:
- Conviction for a fast pickup (there was no one else around, or even in the map)
- Unbreakable (For the even faster 5s pickup)
- Tenacity (otherwise the killer could simply have picked them up at their feet)
- Soul Guard (activated when the survivor stood up, saved them from going back down again)
- The killer (Oni) was at the very end of their power meter. If they had had even just a bit more in their bar, they could have walked forward and picked up the survivor still in their power. (they walk faster than tenacity, and pickup drops them out. He would've had to manually cancelled his power - an error - if it didn't actually run out on its own).
- Be in the end game (because in any other situation, the survivor downs themselves for free in 30 seconds, the killer can do literally anything else in that time)
- Have the exit doors 99'd or fully opened. (opening a door wouldn't been a grab/hit and they would've died)
- Know exactly where the door/hatch is.
- Be lucky enough that their chase ends close enough to the door to actually get out (again, with enough time to open it if it isn't already open).
So, again, if any one of those had gone wrong, that video wouldn't have worked. And it took a survivor getting lucky enough to manage it that people are losing their minds over it. I'm also going to reiterate that the killer being Oni, and them running out of power during the down here was a matter of sheer luck. The survivor would've been picked up if the "ending power" animation hadn't been forced to play out. So if it was nay other killer, or the Oni had just a bit more charge, the survivor would've been picked up , even with everything else going for them in that scenario.
Even in your example, it takes more than the 2.7s blade wipe animation to make this work. And, just to be clear, it takes 5.6 seconds with Unbreakable and Conviction together. They have to somehow manage to force a second action after the blade wipe (pallet break, vault, or ending power) or it won't work at all.
So, after you used “what’s the point of the perk if u can not almost get up instantly” (like yes, 25% and 50% is such a big deal, because u can’t abuse animation lock from the killer) I realized how exactly u are using it
U don't consider it as anti slug. U consider it as 3rd chance perk after u lost the chase. That's why u so against making this perk against actual anti-slug and completely remove scenarios. U don't rely on game balancing and skill, u rely on lucky coincidences where killer will accidentally stuck in some animation to use this perk. Otherwise no reason to be against doubling timer. U still can use it multiple times to prevent constant slug, u still can use it with soul guard/plot twist/whatever, but suddenly making it’s unable to exploit by RGN makes u upset. Interesting.
U know what’s the difference between unbreakable, decisive strike and conviction? At least because it can’t be used multiple times. And at least because u can’t use “lucky moment” related to animation or else.
U ignore bunch of others videos already uploaded everywhere, where killer didn't pick up to kick gen/ tried to prevent sabo team/ just vaulted window/ checked potential savers in open field. They didn't slug. When survivor making a mistake and bring to hot gen and other survivors before getting down it is a base strategy to punish whole team for mistake. And now it doesn't matter, because survivor can try again just by healing someone else before, yeah.
Whatever, I really doubt they will keep conviction on its current state unchanged. They will either nerf it to the ground, either will add an alternative as lightborn. We know how BHVRs works. Instead of finding actual balance they first creates busted perk, keep it until people buy enough dlc and then completely make it useless to prevent further complaints.
Bet u were mft enjoyer as well and found it completely fair, cause “u need to survive until endgame to combine it with hope”
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Despite movie being “kid horror”, I genuinely love the idea. Moreover, I would love to see new realm with elements of this movie :)
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@PigWithTvs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3981116#Comment_3981116
oh……
indoor map with 60 chained window, what could possibly go wrong lol
thanks for the info
I also found it…. Mehhhhhh….
Anyway, let’s wait to see
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@PigWithTvs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3981113#Comment_3981113
im talking about 2 v 8 xd
they aren't adding lerry's to 2 v 8 are they…..?
they announced lerry, grinwill and borgo
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@PigWithTvs said:
any buffs to ghost face?
lerry map is actually great option for him
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3981089#Comment_3981089
can run conviction, soul guard, unbreakable and decisive strike
I hate to break it to you, but you can run this combination without conviction at all. It's been around for a very long time (even going back to pre-6.1 DS, when it worked in end game). So this is very, very far from an unwinnable scenario, in fact, killers have been winning against this for years now. DS and unbreakable were both meta, and killers weren't running into "unwinnable matches" like you seem to see here.
I already provided example of build from killer side. Do u like to see build with perk that also robs opposite side time
You made up a scenario that completely ignores the downsides that A) conviction has to have a charge you earn before it can be used, and B) all benefit of the perk is completely undone in 30 seconds by downing yourself again.
Even though your DMS scenario requires a hook, you're deliberately ignoring that the "benefit" isn't being undone automatically. DMS, even in your wildest dreams, isn't giving free gen progress or something for no reason (like getting a free down by picking yourself up by conviction absolutely does).
30 seconds later it's as though the perk didn't even exist, and that's a core and key component your fantasy that's missing entirely. You aren't "losing 30s to chase" by conviction. If you see them pick themselves up, you can leave them alone and they not only won't do anything productive for about the next minute, they actually can't.
But HOW it counters my argument that still with specific set up the build is basically uncounterable?
It's not uncounterable because you angrily claim that it is. It doesn't even activate unless you heal someone else, so right off the bat if you get hard tunneled out of the game the perk is a dead slot. I'm pretty sure anyone with a pulse can figure out tunneling, since I've been told repeatedly that it's "rEqUiReD".
And again, your arguments have nothing to do with conviction, since simply using DS and unbreakable together can create these scenarios. That combo was meta before 6.1 when DS was far stronger, and it's also far from "uncounterable". Especially since both of those perks have exactly and only one use per match (and you still have to have unbreakable to really use conviction mid match, otherwise you're just "still slugged in a different location")
Conviction? 3 perks and being down while vaulting or in open space when someone has flashlight around. That’s enough for killer simply accepting he has to let u go.
Yes. You would have to if they just had unbreakable also, and literally nothing else. You also have the benefit of having two survivors occupied and not on gens, you're likely to get a hook off of the one parking for a flashlight, and the person with conviction not only spent a charge, but you can probably finish your chase and go find them as a free slug somewhere.
Again, that conviction survivor is committed to not doing anything useful for about 60 seconds (30s knowing they be downed and can't heal, and extra the recovering to use unbreakable or wait for help). Conviction adds nothing except free pressure for the killer to this scenario that simply having unbreakable didn't already provide. You're losing your mind over a perk that makes this scenario better for the killer in that case.
Idk why all of you claiming this build requires specific and hard set up
Because you're freaking out over nothing.
With unbreakable I can get myself it of the dying state once, it takes about 30 seconds.
The only benefit if conviction is that it picks you up faster, at the cost of delaying your down by 30 seconds. So the only time you aren't just wasting extra time here (that could be the on gens), even with a friend lurking with a flashlight and DS equipped, is in end game, where you're relying on getting it the exit gate or hatch in those 30 seconds.
You're also pretty much forced to bring at least unbreakable and tenacity in end game because otherwise any killer can finish wiping their blade and pick you up at their feet before you get to the 5s mark to stand up even with conviction. This also requires you to have an open exit gate, that you know where it is and can get to it in under 30 seconds without the killer getting you first. And you might still need soul guard to keep from getting downed again instantly. That's all 4 perk slots for one very specific edge case scenario that may only happen incredibly rarely.
In any other case, especially before the gates are powered, every scenario you bring up is true with unbreakable or, shoot, even no mither. But those aren't, and haven't been issues in years. So, where exactly is the problem with conviction in reality, and not just in your head?
I don’t feel any point if arguing evolves around “it can be breakable, but u have to do sth before” .
Despite unbreakable and ds being meta, they directly exist how they supposed to - counterplay of slugging and tunnelling. And after some nerfs this perks are good and balanced around pub games. While conviction can bring broken events.
Is it that hard make conviction takes 15-20 sec instead of 8 so it won’t punish killers when they obviously didn’t slug??? Because my whole point is that now the max value from this perk is basically when u break the game by bringing build, when killer didn’t even slug, and just decided to prevent easy pallete save or put some pressure. On otz video it was a moment when killer just broke a pallete and person already up. Just stop claiming it’s hard to accomplish. Finish healing (not healing for a whole health state even) isn’t that hard, nothing hard about abusing this perk, and people here provide nerf that will counter only specific scenario when killer can’t pick up because he stuck in animation.
U repeat same every time and avoid direct discuss of moments when it’s clearly unfair and uncountarable. So u either that guy who abuse this perk in exactly same way and try to find an excuse of this perk being fair in such cases, or u simply don’t understand in what cases it’s absolutely game balance breaking. No one here talking about completely removing this perk. Just give more time to avoid situations when people picked them up before animation finished. That’s it. Don’t let to exploit this, that’s all.Someone already posted a video on this forum when person picked himself up for free and escaped, while killer was stuck in oni’s animation and basically wasn’t able to do anything. And people who were saying “just don’t play oni or don’t down in endgame” were the same who complained about ghoul or fog vial nerfs on different posts. And same people here complaining about some bloggers having bias here, that I find ridiculous.
The arrow does not turn, how people say on my native language :/
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3981085#Comment_3981085
Again, someone is bringing this, with heavy investment, instead of: anti tunneling perks, chase perks, or "gen rush". But the mindset is "let's nerf it and go back to complaining about those other 3 instead".
This is also pretty easily telegraphed that it's in play since it's the only self-pickup.
And yes, if there was a killer build that completely undid itself after 30 seconds and meant that killers had to bring an entire build that wasn't slowdown, or information, and only functioned in incredibly specific scenarios that relied on your opponent to play into them? Let's go. Let's see how meta that would be (spoiler: it wouldn't).
This is just the flavor of the month for people to complain about (and in this case, have a CC give them their opinion on so they don't have to think for themselves), before we go right back to "gens too fast".
I'm not arguing with otz, or hens. I'm arguing with you. The ideas stand or fall on their own, and right now your argument is flat on it's face (just like conviction after 30 seconds, coincidentally).
The main point of antitumneling or chase perks is making chase longer. Conviction does absolutely same thing.
And u can run conviction, soul guard, unbreakable and decisive strike. Again, this perk provides enough combination excluding genrush only. This “investment” doesn't have counterplay, and here is a problem.
I already provided example of build from killer side. Do u like to see build with perk that also robs opposite side time (like insta DMS that u can’t counter at all on the most progressed gen)? So your waste time will be equal to 1 min of chase + 30 sec in average (or less or more).
Your only argument that it have to be set up in some way. But HOW it counters my argument that still with specific set up the build is basically uncounterable? I don’t know. Nothing should be uncounterable. That's why u have decisive strike or genrush perks. That’s why u can hide in the locker to counter BBQ. That's why u have heal meta to counter anti heal perks.
Conviction? 3 perks and being down while vaulting or in open space when someone has flashlight around. That’s enough for killer simply accepting he has to let u go. Because with 3 perks u can pick u up for 4 seconds.
Sure, it is my argument flat and not your with direct “who cares it’s no skill involved and uncounterable until it takes 3 slot to run to break some game mechanic”
U don't need skill to equip 3 perks, heal teammate and then force down in vaulting animation/close to the locker/ under pallet. U don't need skill to drop yourself in corner and plot twist with no sound. Idk why all of you claiming this build requires specific and hard set up
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3981079#Comment_3981079
This feels like people who misunderstand how StB works.
You realize that the survivor is broken and is automatically downed again after 30 seconds, right? That's just how the perk works.
I think people are hyper fixated by the quick pickup and completely ignoring the "free down" part of the perk here. Which, really only comes in clutch in the end game when the door is already open.
If you're stretching for analogies: It'd be like if pain res took at least 3 perk slots to run, and then the gen gained back all of its lost progress after 30 seconds and stopped regressing. That sounds pretty bad, or at least very scenario-specific, for the level of investment TBH.
Does it matter, when people abuse it with plot twist/exponential?
good luck to waste your time when survivor got himself up after conviction, used sole guard and u need either waste 30 seconds tracking him or getting down before this 30 sec, so his teammates can finish gen? Good waste of time, as well as dropping this survivor and let him be picked up and healed by teammate.
OP already showed by otz video how exactly u can abuse it, so what’s the point trying to deny it? Henz, how someone already posted here who has much less bias of killer side than otz himself described this perk problematic, they exactly showed why it is and u can find many of such videos.
I’m asking again - do u really wish see same kind of build from the killer? Even if he had some kind of penalty that works as equivalent of being down from survivor?
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Same. It also double your post sometimes, so u post 2 same comments and even can not delete it :/
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Even if it requires 3 or 4 slots, how it cancel the fact of 0 counterplay?
Do u really wish having same build from killer with DMS + Scourge Hook, but with other third perk that trigger DMS every time on the most progressed gen?
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Even if it requires 3 or 4 slots, how it cancel the fact of 0 counterplay?
Do u really wish having same build from killer with DMS + Scourge Hook, but with other third perk that trigger DMS every time on the most progressed gen?
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3980862#Comment_3980862
Problem with conviction is all you need is convicton+ soul guard and one friend with flashlight that will harras the killer and go under palett or near window and now killer is in hard situation where only counter to this is fast pick up and by vault option or palett you limit his options with your friend with flashlight he is risking save and after like 10 seconds downed survivor gets up ( his conviction resets because its buged) and has 10 seconds of endurence and 30 sconds more in chase not to mention you can use it with dead hard to have 4 healt states even the fact conviction gives you only 30 seconds with bug it has you get another use of it and theres no cooldown so its abuseable in duos and more in swf not to mention other perks that can give you more chases like otr or ds if killer decides to tunnel reminfs me of prenerfed metle of man where you got with dead hard 4 health states and if your team was agressive on gens than you could almost get chased for 5 gens which is strong effect and weaker killers cant afford to chase that long.
I think they can keep soul guard + conviction synergy, but timer should be higher for sure. Not 8 sec or even 4 if u bring unbreakable/expo
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@isha said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/453523/kaneki-is-unfun-to-play-against
dont hold w. in 99% of my playtime against ghoul I only went down cuz I held w. Ghoul has no chase power besides fast vaults. If he does fast vault, dont be out of position. If your in position and loop around to vault again he wont catch you
The fact people downvoted you when u clearly provided actual counterplay is so sad :(
Do they expect killer having counterplay they wish to see?
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I prefer to care about balancing/technical state of the game more. Toxicity in this fandom is partially a consequence of how people are trying to deal with balancing in this game. People tunnelling not because they are toxic and hate you personally. Same with survivors who probably survived first time after 10 streak losses.After my first discussion here I kinda stopped caring about fairness of this game. I’m playing this game for my personal enjoyment. Nothing matter about other side comfort. I’m not toxic person who insulting people or taunt them. And that's should be enough. For everyone. Game provide you tools to win for both sides. Commit to sweaty gameplay in sfw / meta killer is enough to deal with winrate% issue. So, for me nothing about community, but pure balance and technical state of the game.
I can’t fix toxic people by kindness. No one can. Unfortunately.
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@not_Queef said:
I tend to ignore anyone that uses the term "spaghetti code", since this is usually bandied about by people who have absolutely no clue what they are talking about. I remember McLean talking about it (as well as the myth that the game uses Blueprints for everything)…
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/698649539
(really wish he didn't have a music event for every follow)
Okay, so….
Thanks for providing some info apart of position that they use blueprint only. That’s actually good to know, but hearing his statement and having coding background myself …
Well. I’m not gonna tell here “look, I’m so professional here, so my opinion is more valid here.” Just gonna say I’m studying game design degree know, worked on c#, learning js, js node and express now for back end programming, working a lot on 3D graphics, so despite I didn’t work in unreal engine yet, I’m pretty acknowledged with how it supposed to work in terms of blueprint and I simply can’t agree with him in many terms. I say this so that the argument that I don't even know what I'm talking about won't be used against me.
- “Spaghetti code”. I can agree, this statement is simplifyingcode terms. But simplifying stuff to explain complicated terms in programming is a base knowledge. Nothing wrong to present it like this.
- “Code just look as a mess, but it’s not a problem”. Well…. That’s the biggest lie I heard from such experienced coder (if he is). Code can have complicated composition, but it should never look like a mess. Clear readability from the first glance is the most crucial component of programming hard skill, so when even inexperienced person look at the code and unable to find some logic of structuring while your code is done not on a machine code or some kind of assembling, your code is basically… not that good . Especially in live services, where u need quickly responce and commit changes ASAP. Overcomplicated chains make it unnecessary hard for tracking and handling with chain of errors
- He didn’t say they don’t use Blueprint at all. And yes, he addmited sometimes they stick to C++ for better performance. Here I see some kind of partial true. But that’s a huge reason why you have to avoid using blueprint as much as possible for online services…. Blueprint is way for faster prototyping. Large scale projects can be created by Blueprint, but when this large scale project dependent on network connection and that’s basically a multiplayer game, performance should be your priority 1. Not “We used C++ for some better performance” . Ping issues where killers were hosting servers and basically their ping decided how game should go, and that’s now, still, we have lug switches who can bring advantage from this really makes me doubt in his words, that they deal with performance well.
The most important thing is that the video shows at what time he said this statement. The Blueprint/C++ ratio in the project right now is still unknown, and we don’t have direct access to their project. After the terrible technical release of TWD, which is comparable in quality to their first transition to unreal or the release of the chapter with Twins, I would say that I simply do not trust them. The person in the video is very disingenuous and for me is trying to manipulate the fact that “you are not programmers, so you do not understand that everything is fine in BluePrint”. Well, I’m learning programming now and had internship. And I’m person with eyes who playing this game regularly. The technical state of the game… is disaster. And we have explanation either that it’s Blueprint issue, or I don’t want to claim this, big incompetence from devs then.
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Despite loving phead power, don’t really feel they adapted him that well. In dbd he dosn’t bring that feeling “came out of nowhere to pursue”, his animations are pretty basic, his mori good in sense of being unemotional execution, but nothing about him being manifestation of guilt.
James should be whole character and not just some cosmetic in such sence as well :(
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@igotskiz said:
I've only ever seen the first season of Tokyo Ghoul several years ago, but from what I remember Kaneki never did hunt innocent people down. He was just trying to make his way in the world. How is his portrayal in Dead by Daylight accurate, unless he changes completely in later seasons? Not calling out the tier, legitimately curious.
he still isn’t that bad. Boy is just in constant hunger
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The reasons because they can’t deal with cheaters at all.
Code is open and vulnerableble, so now it's easy to DDoS whole server not even being in match yourself