sulaiman
sulaiman
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2124225#Comment_2124225
See, that's the thing when you're new, is that stealth seems like fun. It seems like the most enjoyable part of DBD, the hiding and the finding, but after like 1k hours it's pretty boring. 2k hours it's just frustrating when you can't find someone, and so even if it is fun to do still, it's awful and frustrating to face imho.
But its also boring to just run in circles to catch up to someone. There should be different strategies for different players, and even for facing different killers.
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@WiiFitTrainer said:
It's just unacceptable.
Bhvr, please fix this. Disable it until it gets straightened around or something. I find it hard to believe the amount of pallets is intentional.
IF you mean that they should reduce the pallets on the map while restoring the stealth option on this map and reducing the dead ends, then yes plz. Only reducing the pallets would turn it into a very killersided map.
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@DeadByDedicated said:
The objective for this experiment was to see how long it would take for a single survivor to prevent NOED from coming into play by doing all five totems.
For this experiment, I chose Mother's Dwelling, Ormond, and Coal Tower to be the maps, due to their varying sizes.
I'm only having one survivor doing the bones since your teammates are unlikely to touch dull totems unless they have Inner Strength or an archive.
I cleansed totems on each map two different times, to have some sort of comparison.
I cleansed with the knowledge of where every totem was.
The images are just to see where the totems had spawned each individual time.
Coal Tower (Variation A) Time spent: 2 minutes
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/C296SXRTRBVT/coaltower-1.png
Coal Tower (Variation B) Time spent: 2 minutes, 5 seconds
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/73IMVK0N3ZSO/coaltower-2.png
Ormond (Variation A) Time spent: 1 minute, 55 seconds
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/ILWV7I5NJYEQ/mountormondresort.png
Ormond (Variation B) Time spent: 1 minute, 51 seconds
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/AF3WGU3RI91J/mountormondresort-2.png
Mother's Dwelling (Variation A) Time Spent: 2 minutes, 13 seconds
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/0IKZHN2WZMET/mothersdwelling-1.png
Mother's Dwelling (Variation B) Time Spent: 2 minutes, 6 seconds
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/VE3J8Y1597ME/mothersdwelling-2.png
The average time between all of the maps was about two minutes.
These times however are extremely unlikely to even be close to attainable in an actual trial because:
1) These times assume that you are not chased or interrupted at any point
2) They assume there are no perks to slow down or speed up the cleansing
And
3) They require the survivor to know exactly where all five totems are and to not waste time searching for them.
In the end, even if someone somehow managed to cleanse all five totems by themselves in two minutes, it could be completely meaningless since the killer could very well just not have NOED. The time it would take for a solo survivor to deal with all five totems would likely lead to their team's demise.
Feel free to use this meaningless information however you please.
P.S. These totem spawns
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/AN27VLCXOUK1/totems.jpg
And how much time is it if every survivor that finishes a gen and go to the next gen just checks the common totem spots on that map and cleases a totem he finds?
you dont even have to go out and search for them most of the time, you just have to do the one you come along. Unless it is a swamp map, totems are rarely on the edge of the map with no gens nearby.
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@Triforcer said:
You see this over and over and over here, on the killer side (and I am very much a killer main) it is practically an indisputable article of faith. But here are the facts:
- If you get really, really good with ANY killer (even garbage tier ones), that killer can easily handle (or least have a relatively even game with) (i) all non-red ranks, and (ii) 98% of red ranks, including rank 1s, SWFs, and rank 1 SWFs.
- If you are a rank 1 killer up against literally the .1% of the survivor population that is a rank 1, tournament-skill level, all optimized meta perk 5000 hour 4 man SWF Korean sweat squad, you'll struggle with anyone except spirit.
- 98% or 99% of the killer population will never reach the rank where they actually have a chance of playing that sweat squad.
- Ergo, "Spirit" is only mandatory for a non-stomping by 1-2% of the population, in maybe 1 out of every 20 or 30 games that 1-2% plays.
Is any of this wrong?
Its not wrong, but what about the players that are not really really good with any killer? That still have to face swf survivors above their skill level. Which killer do you think they have the best chances of getting a decent match with?
Yes, not all survivors are Rank 1 deathsquads, but not all killers have 5k hours either, but they often face survivors with far more experience. Dont killers facing those deserve fair matches?
Unless there is a good working matchmaking, the powerlevel of the killers are not easily to determine.
Also, as a red rank survivor with 5k hours: 98% of spirits can be outplayed, if you just try not to loop them around.
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@NoOneKnowsNova said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2051614#Comment_2051614
Well to be fair, the forum is killer biased from my experience. Most likely because as the game is survivor sided in some cases, more killers come onto the forums to complain about such or just to see others opinions on it.
That's not to say everyone is biased, nor that there aren't survivors who are biased on the forums.
I actually dont belive that. I am a solo survivor , but i used to play killer about 30% of the time. With the mori changed, i got back to solo survivor only, and only recently play the odd game as killer.
But in a lot of discussions i "side with the killers" because of my experiences. Because i see the disadvantages killers have and the advantages survivors (especially swf) have.
The problem is that balance can´t be achived as long as you try to balance around solo and swf survivors at the same time. That does not work out, but devs and swf players don´t even like discussions about it.
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They showed such stats some time ago. Basicly, solo survivors were short of 50% of played matches, meaning that swf was slightly over 50%.
The escape rate werent given, but it was mentioned that the survival rate of swf was about 10% higher than solo.
For me, thats about true, my survival rate as solo is about 75% (in red rank matches, not after rank reset), and when i played swf, it was 10-15% highter. But i only kept stats of my solo games, so i dont have hard numbers on that. But i mostly got out, or most of the team did.
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@Dragonshensi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2120415#Comment_2120415
You ever thought maybe they put those add ons in after they spotted the key? Most killers instantly go hard cause a key can end a match quickly. When I spot a key in my lobby I change up my perks and add ons. I didn’t this time cause they found a key in chest. Look where that got me.
in my experience, most killers play this way anyway, no matter if you bring a key or not. Iri heads is a think in 50% of games against huntress, keys are usually not.
Also, a key does not end the game quickly. for 4 men to escape with a key, you need 5 gens done. Thats quick for you? The quickest hatch escape i can think of is one survivor escaping with no gens done after you killed the other 3, but then i would argue the killer got carried by bad matchmaking anyway if he outskills the survivors that highly.
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@Dragonshensi said:
Just had a match where the survivors were losing badly. One was gone and they had three genned themselves and all the gens were close by. Of course hatch spawned close by them. So I was playing great right? Well too bad, time to be punished for it. One of them found a key in a chest, all three got together, and left. I went from an easy 4k to a 1k in a blink of an eye. How is that any tiny shred of fair? Killers should not be punished like this. Hatch is the cowards way out and Killers should at least get extra BP for survivors taking the easy way out of the game. Instead, it’s a win for them and a loss for me, even though there was literally nothing I could do to stop them. I couldn’t even close the hatch cause one of them was bodyblocking allowing the others to use it.
I dont know if you were playing great. Tunneling and camping vs solo survivors really dosnt need much skill, and i dont know what happened or didnt happen in your game. Also, with this matchmaking, it could still be that you are a rank1 5k hours killer vs 4 rank 18 2h noobs. Happens time and again, sadly. So no, your conclusion that you played great dosnt have to be right.
With all the tunneling and camping that is going on, hatch escape is one way to counter that even in solo queue, and depending on how the game went, surly no "cowards way out".
However, taking the hatch is (moraly, even though not by gameplay mechanics) and should be a loss for the survivors team, and a clear win for the killer, unless all gens were done anyway.
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@GannTM said:
Look, I get it, it can be frustrating going against a team that has an advantage as big as being able to communicate. Trust me, I’ve had my fair share of frustrating moments as killer. However, that doesn’t mean it’s the right move to gut SWF.
I would assume that the majority of people that are for a SWF nerf enjoy killer. Well, if you take away the feature of playing with friends, then it will eventually reach a point where there will be no more killer gameplay to enjoy. Why? Because part of the reason of DBD’s success is being able to play with friends. If you take that away, a lot of survivors will just quit the game, killer que times will be super long, and DBD’s death will come sooner rather than later.
A much better solution to fixing the issues SWF has would be to buff solo q and to buff all the killers that need one. Maybe even give every killer something they can do to traverse the map faster and more precisely. There’s a lot that needs to be done to balance everything out but butchering SWF is not the answer to it.
Well, i am a solo survivor that wants swf nerfed. No, actually i want it seperated from solo queue. Why? Because its really hard to balance the game around solo survivors and swf on comms at the same time. If the killer is too weak, he get stomped by swf, if he is stronger, he stomps solos (unless they can work as a team anyway, but with this matchmaking, unlikly). If SWF was seperated form solo, they could just balance both modes seperat.
This being said, tunneling and camping is so common at the moment, that i consider stopping playing only solo and go back to swf. SWF is not so thrilling, because you have all that information (and thats why i am against just buffing solo experience to swf level) and it takes away athmosphere and tension in this game. But at the moment, its needed to handle those campers and tunnelers, because while they can be countered, solo queue is less potent in doing that.
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I want to add another thing: Camping and tunneling is incredible frequent at the moment, much more frequent than keys found in chests. So its kind of nice it balances that a bit, and that a killer doesnt get a free win just because he faces solo players instead of swf.
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I usually play plunderers if i play solo.
But some days ago i had a daily for a survivor without plunderers. I had 2 matches with them, and i found a key in both matches...
Usually, i dont see keys as a problem, because even with plunderers, which is rarley used, you get a key ever 3-4 matches, and even then you dont need them all the time you found one.
In addition, a key escape - at least to me - is an escape, but still a defeat. Killer won, i just got out.
I even find keys important for solo queues, because of how common it is in matches for one survivor to dc or hook suicide, turning the match into the killers favor before a single gen is done, just because you had a ######### teammate.
But the frequency in which keys appear in chests at the moment, yeah, i think that makes them kind of broken. (like with moris, i never had a problem with them because they werent common in my matches. When they start to be, then it turns into a problem)
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@TTV_WAWAbyWibWib said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2119080#Comment_2119080
What you misunderstand is that i'm not making an argument, i'm voicing an attitude. If they bring keys just beat them anyway. It's fun to prevent keys from being used. When I get keys I like to slug all 4 people or at most tunnel one before waiting for slugs to bleed and hooking the last when they are on death hook for being last in challenge. Hatch never spawns, gens never get done. At least that's how it goes for me.
Are you really going against survivors where the key matters? If so, let me in on that action!
Well, i stopped playing killer and play only survivor anyway. And yes, i belive that keys are not that bad, because unlike moris, they dont change the outcome. One or even two survivors might escape, but they still lost the game. Its like setteling for second winner instead of loser in a 2-party-game.
But i am not a native speaker, so maybe i just misunderstood your intention. But the fact that something is in the games doesnt mean it belongs there, or it stays forever.
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@Zozzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2119314#Comment_2119314
That's the point. Like it or now swf is part of the game and solo needs to be boosted to that level. Once you do that then they can buff killers to compete.
No, it doesnt. I for one like the game with a lack of information, as it keeps the tension up.
Also, buffing information doesnt help with people not caring about you, which is one of the things that make swf strong.
They need to seperate swf from solo and need to balance both modes seperatly.
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I can understand fixing the pallet bug first, because i expect that to happen nearly every game, while breakdown is not a much used perk.
However, it is a gamebreaking bug for killer, so disableing the perk should be the go-to mode.
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wait what? Hooks dont repair themself after breakdown?
Yeah, thats a bug i would expect them to fix as fast as possible '*slotting breakdown into my survivorbuild*
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@TTV_WAWAbyWibWib said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2118981#Comment_2118981
Key users and SWFs are part of dead by daylight.
So was old mori. And it got changed anyway.
So was old nurse. And it got changed anyway.
So was old hillbilly. And it got changed anyway.
Your argument means nothing, really.
SWF IS the most unbalanced part in the whole game. And the reason i stopped playing killer after the mori change, because i am just a mediocre killer (and i am ok with that), but matchmaking set me time and again against red rank swf. And even if they are not that common (as people claim), i got them often enough. Might be a regional thing, but still happend.
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@Killerdonut80 said:
I love DBD, I discovered it like a year ago and have hundreds of hours of gameplay in it. I play Survivor and Killer equally. I remember when I started off playing as Killer, Noed was the best thing ever, down those annoying survivors with one smack, it was beautiful. But the truth is, it’s such a crap perk which obviously skews balance data making kills per game look much more balanced when it simply wasn’t deserved.
I can’t count how many games have ended with atleast two kills because of Noed when the killer was doing so badly doing regular time.
It’s honestly a joke of a perk for killers that don’t have skill, honestly when I see someone is using it I roll my eyes thinking I knew this is the kind of player that would be running it. It does surprise me when better killers use it from time to time.
I will admit though the only thing which makes it a little exciting is running around the map at the end looking for the totem to break it and knowing you could get spotted, never ever fun finding out you’re the first one downed by it though.
So NOED is no issue then, right?`If only the skillless use it, then they are outskilled anyway (matchmaking is to blame here), so it seems like the perfekt perk to bring at least some balance, right?
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@Kira4Evr said:
I struggle against key more as a survivor than killer. I'm usually one of the 3-2 last survivors, and I can't found how many times my teammate/teammates have left me to die because they have a key. I probably have just as much hate against keys as killers. They're disgusting xd
When i bring a killer, i usually try to get out every one. But a lot of survivors decide to not follow me to the hatch because they think they know better, so if i get out then, they can blame theirself.
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@nursewannabe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2114773#Comment_2114773
On what world do you live in to believe that this game is balanced around soloqueue?
Going against soloqueuers is a faceroll, and I'm not even carried around by gen regression perks
You are right. because swf and solo is not seperated, the balance of killers is somewhere in between both modes, leaving killer at an advantage vs solo survivors (but good survivors can handle it, but with this matchmaking, its just a diceroll), and swf stomp you if they want to.
Thats why it needs to be sepereated from each other, so you can balance both modes seperatly. But swf don´t want that, using the argument killers wouldnt play vs swf, ignoring the fact that there would be no reason doing this if the balance was aknowledging their advantage and balance accordingly. They just dont want to lose said advantage. Also, there is killer that like the challange, i was assured.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/243312/dodging-swf
Also...My advice to you is learn to bait flashlights. Enjoy all the free hits you'll get from them and slug them all. I will GLADLY run vs 4 flashies
Or you can do what i did: stop playing killer.
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Well, maybe if devs would fix the matchmaking, such reminders wouldnt be nessecary, what do you think?
I take it that none of the people that support this thread do belive they will make a fair matchmaking happening, thus an appeal to the players is needed, am i right?
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@Spooky13 said:
#GiveUsBackOldFreddy
I miss when Freddy didn't have 4 powers and wasn't a literal snoozefest for both sides. He was unique and a fun challenge, both playing as and against him.
The fun challange was not to laugh too hard while you toyed with him, right?
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I used to run it, because i am a teamplayer at heart. But with this game, i stopped playing that way. Too often i was left behind after i saved 2 people, even against non-camping killers. You take a hit for someone already injured, then they bodyblock you, and leave you on your first hook.
More and more, i played to save myself. Kindred doesn´t help me with this.
I hope that if we ever get a good matchmaking, things might change again, and its worth being a teamplayer again.
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Well, i think i would stay in the lower red ranks as survivor, because i have several rare survivor skills and can do things most other survivors cannot, and some even think impossible. I know that many survivors lack that skills (i only play solo)
- I know math. Thats important for some of the other things
- i run Self Care (because i play solo survivor with russians. you need it), but i know when to self care and when not to.
- i can do bones, all alone if nessecary, and i dont even need a perk slot for it.
- i dont have to run around the map to search for totems, i can just check the spots on the tiles from one gen to another, so not much time is lost.
- i am not allergic to gens, and i know when to stay at one.
- i know how to play different vs different killers, for example i dont have to rush in to make that unhook while the others just crouch in, just because its a hag.
- I can lose spirit in a chase (sure, not every spirit, but enough to deal with most i encounter)
- i know how to lose nurse in a chase (again, not every nurse, but 80% of them)
- i can do save unhooks, and am even able to tank a hit if the killer camps or suddenly comes back
- i also know when to just lead the killer away from the hook without unhooking the survivor so someone else can do a save unhook
- i know where not to run the killer to in a chase, like that hooked survivor, or the gen i know 2 people have nearly finished.
- I can hit skill checks, even while in madness, most of the time.
- I know when to finish a gen first, and heal or do totems later
- i know why to do central gens first
- i can juke killers, and make them lose me in a chase, a lot of the time (i know some peopel think a chase that doesnt end with a hook is bad for some reason, so maybe thats a point against me)
- i know how to hide from a killer while he searches around that gen that stops regressing the moment he turns.
- i can distract the killer without teabagging.
- i know when to use a pallet, and when dont
- i know when to use a toolbox, and when to save it.
- i know when to tank a hit for a teammate.
- I know to heal while on the ground
- i know how to pallet save.
- i know how to block the killer if needed.
So yeah, i think i am above average as a survivor, and therefor would still belong in red ranks
As killer, i dont belong in red ranks, and i wouldnt get there if it was skill based. (although a lot of players on the forums claim killer need no skill anyway, would red ranks be empty for killers?)
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@ShamelessPigMain said:
SWF has a reputation that it doesn't deserve. Good coordination won't help if you're playing a very good killer. No amount of discord nitro will help you out-loop a good nurse.
As for adding a casual queue, the queue times wouldn't change much, but the issue is competitive players going into casual queues to 1) troll 2) grind. If we make it so that casual games don't reward points, then you prevent them from unlocking new perks and getting better at the game. If you do, it pretty much becomes Manor Farm.
If you play very good survivor and you are an swf, you will beat very good killers. Tournaments have shown that.
IF you are just average survivors, you will still beat average killers. Because yes, it doesnt help you outloop, but it helps that your teammates know
who is in a chase, and who is save
where is a gen nearly finished, or were are the others working on a gen
what perks does the killer have without testing them all out yourself
how many dull totems have been cleansed, and where
where are all the pallets wasted during the first chases, aka where to go in a chase
is the killer camping or not?
Knowing when to work on a gen without interruption, where to go to the next then someone was chased off, or where the others are so you finish the last gen faster, or who can stay on a gen because someone else is going for the unhook? Compared to solo, even knowing that others do gens and not just hide somewhere because the killer is in their outer terror radius helps.
And you say that is not an advantage, or that it doesnt help? Hell yes it does, because you finish those gens way faster than solo can, and way faster than most killers can keep up.
So either you have no clue about the game, or you are just lying because you are afraid defs realize one day there have to be changes.
IF this game ever wants to achive some kind of balance, it needs to seperate swf from solo survivors.
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@Babawizwiz said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2100235#Comment_2100235
survivors shouldn't hv to do 5 totems just to get rid of one perk
They also shouldn´t cry about things they have absolute control over and just choose to ignore.
I do totems in most of my games, and you really need no perks for it, because the number of totem spawns are usually very limited. There are one or two maps that are the exception, but mostly, its easy to do, even in solo (which i play 100% of my time)
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@WARW0LF said:
typical killer main spam post 😴
While this is true, it doesn´t make him wrong.
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@RenTheCat said:
I spent an entire match setting traps around 3 gens only for the three survivors remaining to just escape through the hatch with a key. They didn't even touch a single one of those gens even though they still had to repair 1 more to open the gates.
Why is it even a thing that 75% of a team is able to escape without having to complete the objective, open the gates and go through them? All you have to do is find a key in the 9999 chests that appear all over the map or bring it yourself and that's it, you won.
It's hilarious how if the killer camps and secures a kill he will still derank, but a survivor who did nothing and used the hatch will never get a -1 because just surviving makes your score fine.
At the very least make it so you have to hold the hatch for 20 seconds like in the gates. If the survivor with the key finds the hatch first there is literally no way to stop them, you can't grab them, you can't close it if they are standing on it, you're just completly powerless.
There are perks against camping, perks against tunneling, perks against slugging, but not a single perk against the hatch.
And don't say "kill 'em before the hatch shows up" because the killer is punished if he doesn't make the match last long. If you immediatly kill everyone in the first few minutes you derank, you barely get any bloodpoints, you spent 1 hour searching for match and loading the map only for the game to last 2 minutes, etc.
The fact that a killer has to be afraid of a key is so pathetic. Just give survivors a gun and let them kill the killer too.
Well, killers can kill one survivor without even hitting a second one. They are using a shortcut to create pressure. And the hatch gives another option, so the game does not just revolve the first kill.
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@MrDardon said:
If you have time to heal, you are NOT being tunneled.
Should I say anything else? Or is it clear enough?
For some, a killer that breaks of a chase and ignore all other survivors to go for an injured survivor trying to hide and heal himself might very well be tunneling. But since your definition seems to be different, can you give me yours?
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I am not sure what you are talking about. We both agree that the use you discripe was an abuse of the perk and thats why it needed a nerf.
However, the situation i used as an example was also not rare, and is a valid use, at least in my opinion.
YOU, however claimed, that the perk wasnt nerfed, just its abusability. And thats where we disagree, thats why i used a valid situation that is still nerfed as an example.
It was nerfed, and to me, a little over the top. Healing yourself should in my opinion not deactivate the perk. Unhooks, gens, totems, yes, they should. Also, i belive it should be usable after every unhook, not just once.
Not make stupid claims and people might not disagree with you, when they basicly share your opinion.
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@SpaghettiYOLO said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2108084#Comment_2108084
Please don't pretend this was the only way DS was used.
I dont. And i agree with the nerf (i never used ds anyway). But those things happened, and claiming only its abusability was nerfed is simply wrong. The perk itself was nerfed, because this (in my opinion legit) situations were nerfed too.
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@Freki said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2107937#Comment_2107937
lol ds wasn't nerfed. it's functionality is the same as the pre change. they just nerfed the ABUSIBILITY of it. lol though they did buff a few killer things but nothing as big as they buffed survivors.... though i disagree with the change of small game to no longer ping killer traps!
So, if someone gets unhooked, runs away and then tries to heal themself, just to get downed and uses ds, that was abusing it? I think this is a far stretch.
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But they can and should sepereate swf from solo queue, and balance them both seperatly.
Killers might choose if they want to go against swf, where their killer is stronger compared to solo queue. If both modes are balanced, there is no reason for killers to opt out of playing against swf. They just don´t want to face them as long as they have such uncompensated advantages.
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Map reworks nerf survivors stealth options.
But since most people, killers and survivors alike, like the game best for running in circles, they simply ignore that fact. Only those of us who like the game better as a hide-and-seek game are impacted by that nerf. That doesnt mean it doesnt exist.
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@Superyoshiegg said:
You're most likely not going to get them back.
I lost 25,200 Iridescent Shards during last year's Halloween Event.
They released the event outfits for 21,600 Shards each, and I immediately bought two of them.
Less than two days later, they discounted them to 9,000 each due to fan outcry over the event. They never said they planned on doing this, so it seems like it was a hasty change to get some good PR (as the event was basically universally disliked by the community.
No, they didn't refund the difference to people who bought the outfits before the discount, despite many people such as myself asking.
How many companys do you know that do that? Refund you price differences because they drop the price on an item you bought sometime before that? I dont know any.
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So, can i complain when i play solo with only one metaperk (iron will) and normal resolution? And can i expect you to run no brightness filters?
And how do you know beforehand when to turn those on and off?
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@[Deleted User] said:
SWF escapes rates are only like 4% higher than non SWF matches statistically.
Don't confuse those super sweat comp groups and coordinated build SWFs with the majority of them. Most are just people playing together and just saying "I am going for save" or such and that is about the only coordination really lol.
The actual unfair SWF matches are rarer than people would have you believe.
Do you have a source for that? Last time i saw stats by the devs about it, swf survival rate was a little over 10% higher than solo queue, so i would like to know if there are updated data.
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@Profezia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2104632#Comment_2104632
It didn't happen with mories though because they got a stealth change.
Although I'm 100% sure this isn't happening with keys, so next midchapter is going to be a 4 keys every match.
From the day they announced they were "looking into keys and moris" i havnt played a single killer game without an ebony mori, until the nerf came. And others did as well. On the same note, i have used up nearly all keys i have.
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Are you aware, that a lot of other people (players, youtubers, streamers) suggested the exact iri head nerf they are going for?
So even if they took the route you suggested, the exact same statement could be made.
Same with freddys snares, a lot of people suggested the slowdown.
Also, a lot of people were asking about coldwind rework, because that map need one too.
Stop acting like all players were in one mind about all those things, because they never were.
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Where can i see those changes?
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The recent map reworks really hurt the ability of stealth survivors, so i like another option to do it even on those maps.
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@PsyQuil77 said:
Spine Chill should only work if the killer has an active Terror Radius. Other than that, those 2 perks are fine. (Scratched Mirror Myers anyone?)
What would you need it for, then?
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@gilgamer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2098673#Comment_2098673
I see a lot of people who say it should've stayed, nobody who knows what they're talking about thinks it was fine the way it was.
Well, i agree that it needed to change, because it was abused.
but its nerf lead to a rise in tunneling, and i doubt that is more healthy than before.
And this affectes me, even though i never run ds before or now.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2099080#Comment_2099080
I don't think I'm the exception. I just work very hard to look at things pragmatically and without bias. I also record every game and statistically track what I and other people do. I know it is extremely nerdy and competitive. I can't figure out how to get better if I don't understand where "I" am going wrong. I don't believe it profits anyone to worry to much about what OTHER people are doing or how the game mechanics work. I don't have power over those things. I track them so I know what issues I need to be prepared for and how to tackle them.
I can't control how other people play, so I don't spend any time worrying about how asinine it might be to Tunnel, nor spend any time complaining about it over here. I don't have any power over whether or not a Killer chooses to Camp, Proxy Camp, Slug, Herd, 3-Gen the Survivors or Mori. The only thing I can do is be mentally prepared with my own tactics to do the best counter play I can. I find that approach far more productive.
So when I say that I haven't noticed any increase in Tunneling, it is based on the statistics I track myself. There hasn't been a significant, sustained increase. There was a slight bump right after the update because (and I'm making an educated guess here):
- Many people threw a hissy, stopped running DS in protest and thus there was no Obsession and the Killer knew.
- Many people couldn't break themselves of OLD habits and immediately tackled Objectives rather seeking safety.
- Killers like Wraith (Stealth) and Blight got a bump. Stealth do ambush/tunnel more, and Blight can be everywhere.
That statistical bump was not large, nor did it last more than a couple of days. I double checked my math and things are right about where they were before. The difference isn't in Killers Tunneling more, but that people keep saying it and creates a confirmation bias. People are paying attention more and calling everything Tunneling, even things they wouldn't have done just a few weeks ago. I've not been "lucky" as you put it. I play a lot of matches, and statistically I'm running into the same things everyone else is running into.
The truth is DS is not a dedicated anti-Tunnel Perk. There is no such thing. DS was created for the color and Theme of the original Halloween Chapter. It wasn't created with any tactical purpose in mind beyond exactly what it does. The tactical use (and abuse sometimes) was created and implemented by Players. BEhavior is glacially slow to change anything, and only do it when their long term numbers show an issue. They have been watching DS for a long time and it was clear to them (and us a long time before) that the Perk was not being used in a way they intended, nor in a way healthy for the game. They took away the ability to work objectives in the Killer's face. That's it. In so far as Tunneling goes, it works exactly as it did before. That is highlighting an issue, and it isn't one with DS.
So what happened? Survivors are, as almost always, the root cause of the issue. I play both Killer and Survivor. When I first started I played more Killer, but now I'm split about 50/50 and have been or sometime. There has been a cultural change (and I blame SWF largely) in the way Survivors interact and play the game. By in large, they don't take protection hits, do safe rescues, steal a chase, or trade hooks when strategic. When I first started, I was always seeing (regularly) other Survivors jump in and take hits DURING a chase which prevented me from getting a down. This would let the other person get away. They were particularly adept at doing this when someone had been recently hooked, or if someone was on death hook. The Survivors accepted that their own chances were better to get out if they did their best to keep everyone in the game.
It was never the job of the Killer to keep people around. It has always been the job of the Survivors to work together for this purpose, and not just doing Generators and healing one another. They should be intercepting chases, taking protection hits, and mixing it up in a way that prolongs the lifespan of all involved. And they USED to do that regularly. They don't anymore, at least not most. I feel it as a Killer and I experience it firsthand as a Survivor. The reason you feel like you are being Tunneled more is because you are on your own buddy. Your teammates are not going to be there to take that protection hit after unhooking you. They aren't sticking around to make sure that when the Killer returns to the hook they follow the fresh person. Do you see where I'm going with this? This is the result of a META change, not the Perk. You are only noticing it more because everyone wants to scapegoat the Perk.
To some degree (a large degree actually) this is the result of the damn SWF. A certain percentage of the older, more skilled Players have slipped away into SWF leaving Solo much weaker for the loss. What is more the 3-Person SWF tend to treat their "Red Shirt" Solo as a disposable asset. Not all Solos are aware they are in with a SWF. All they know is they are often left high and dry. The more that happens, the more Solo (even when not with a SWF) becomes an every guy/gal for him/herself situation. That is the change. It is a negative feedback loop and will only continue to get worse as Solo and Team continue in the same Que. I'm just being realistic, and I'm following the numbers. Solos can work together with amazing ability. It takes skilled veterans and trust to make that work. Both have been diluted.
In summary, the Tunneling is the same, you are just experiencing it different and more aware of it because of OTHER factors. And increased Tunneling is going to become a self fulfilling prophecy if everyone keeps accusing Killers of doing something that they aren't really doing. At some point, more and more of them are going to:
- Say, "If I'm going to do the time (everyone assumes I do it), I might as well do the crime.
- Start to believe the nonsense here that Tunneling is everywhere and the norm, and figure they might as well.
The thing is, i keep stats myself, and my experience is different than yours. But thanks for explaining to me why my perception of my statistics is wrong.
Here is a link to a thread i made a year ago so you know i dont make this up.
@sulaiman said:
So, with the last patch i started keeping statistics for my survivor games. Now i played 222 of them, and here are my statistics. My survival rate was arount 72% before the rank reset, and took a 10% hit when rank reset happened, mostly because i matched up with bad survivors (in several games i did all gens alone that went of), survivors meming, and of course, survivors not playing because they have a challenge to do. It was better again once i hit red ranks, but only just.
In the beginning, i just recorded the killer, and if i escaped, soon after i started recording the number of kills overall, whatever the killer camped/tunneled/moried/noeded, map name, and even later i took datas for gens done and ranks, for comparision.
I tend to play stealthy, but i do gens, i unhook, but if the killer finds me i try to juke him, which works often enough, but i suck at looping. But due to this, i tend to be not found until only 1 or 2 gens are left to do. But because i am often the last survivor, i run left behind and plunderers instinct. But plz note that i never left the game with the key while leaving other survivors behind. Either i would find them and we all escape, and still try to save them even if i had a key and knew where the hatch was. All that leads to a high number of hatch escapes. Hatch means i took the hatch "naturally", key means i either escaped with others, or the killer had closed the hatch but i had a key. Out of the 50 hatchescapes, i escaped 33 times.
Now some data:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/XTQC700S1D8L/image.png
There were 5 games with survior dcs (i only counted "early" dcs, dcs after a down was just considered a kill), as well as 6 games with first hook suicide.(started to record that only after about 60 games).
From the 4k games, only 20 didnt involve either camping/tunneling/moris, or a combination of those. Some of the 20 game have notes about survivors not doing anythink, hookfarming and so on. thats true for 24 of the 3k games as well.
10 Times Moris were used "alone", 6 times in conjunktion with noed, 1 with tunneling, 1 with camping (and iri heads), 2 times with camping and tunneling, and 2 times with noed/camping/tunneling.
Overall, Camping and Tunneling was used together in 23 games (including the 2 with the moris).
Out of the 30 Huntresses, only 2 used Iri Heads.
There were several 3 and 4k games with all 5 gens done, where the killer had noed/mori or bloodwarden, or the team was overaltruistic.
I know that those statistics aren´t representative.
I feel a lot of times there are 3 and 4ks its the survivors fault. I think if i would play swf instead those outcomes would change in a big way.
Also, while i see the need to improve yourself, the stats are important to find unbalanced mechanics and to adress them, or see if it works out when they are adressed.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/241689/tunneling-is-out-of-control-since-the-ds-nerf
Happy Trails. For my part, I haven't noticed any increase in Tunneling whatsoever, just an increase in people using it as an excuse.
I agree it needed a nerf because it was abused, and i never run it anyway because tunneling wasn´t that common, at least in the game i encountered. But since the nerf, tunneling is involved in more thatn 80% of games i play. So what now? Is one of us right and the other wrong, or is maybe the data sample for one player too small to make valid claims about anything?
But then a lot of surivovrs complain about a rise in tunneling, so maybe you are the exception, rather than the rule.
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@Dragonshensi said:
Love how high ranking SWF act like they are so amazing. Tbagging, flashlight clicking etc. Most aren’t good at the game and if you weren’t constantly on comms feeding your team info, which btw is going outside the game to gain an advantage, more than likely your whole team would be dead before you even 3 gen. So sick of SWF. Every SWF I encounter acts so high and mighty like they are godS of the game.
Well, while i agree that swf and solo mode should be seperated, thats something every player has. Right now, 80% + of killers i encounter tunnel like there is no tomorrow, and then they act like they won through playing better, while in reallity, they abused their 1v1 advantage to gain an advantage. That is legit, but surly no sign of skill.
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I never used ds, because i saw tunneling killers very rarely.
But since the nerf, they are quite common, and thats what makes the game imbalanced.
I agree that ds was too abusable, but now killers abuse the absence of it.
And yes, it is too resticted now. It should keep you save from tunneling, so either it should work after every unhook, or it should allow you to heal yourself (and deactivate when you are fully healed), or maybe even both.
And if you say "just run it", then it becomes a requirement to play survivor, and i belive that is a bad thing (and yes, ruin has the same problem, i agree)
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@helix43 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2095097#Comment_2095097
Run ds for tunneling. It still prevents tunneling, you just can't sit on a gen with 60 seconds of invincibility anymore.
Or i bring a key and avoid the killer after he first tunneled another survivor and get out that way.
The thing is not how good ds is now or not. It is the change in killer behavior it let to.
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Oh oh, i know the answer to that one: "No!"
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@D3spair said:
I just wanna say I've been playing Spirit and Nurse a lot for an upcoming local tournament. I 100% guarantee that Spirit is a better Killer than Nurse is because Spirit is much easier to use and doesn't get cucked by the Game itself.
Playing Nurse is one of the most frustrating things I had experience as some Blinks will always feel short because some obstacle cant be Blinks across, Nurse is a buggy mess in some maps like in Midwich where you can't look up thus not performing a max distance blink because she will Blink Upstairs! Sometimes in shacks you'll randomly teleport down the basement without intending! Nurse is really unfun if you're going against survivor who knows how to juke like can you feel how frustrating it is to miss a Hit by Pixels? Then she gets fatigue and you feel like its unfair.
Spirit on the other hand is super fun Killer to play as, you just listen and make the correct mindgame. If the Survivor escapes you then it was super well played on their part. At least its not the game itself that cucks her from the hit. and the add ons, with Spirit Add Ons you can really 4K a good squad of Survivors while Nurse Best add ons just make her a shadow of her former self(cd add ons).
Any other opinions on our two femme fetal? Forgot to mention when I play as Nurse, It's already stressing enough to play as Killer then coupled that the frustration, Hate to play as her even if I play well as her. While playing Spirit on the other hand, I really feel like a chad and the power role. You just really had to guess on what the survivor is doing with all your information provided by the game.
TL;DR: Nurse feels unfair to play as while Spirit is a chad.
You are completely wrong. And alien was send by god to tell me you are wrong, and thats a fact.
Also, that you might want to look up what a fact is.