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You played as sadako, losing against anyone with a clue about dbd is already guranteed, if you want to go toe to toe with good players, play a good killer, if you don't: just understand the implications of not doing so.
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Use tinkerer for effectiveness or unnerving precense for skillchecks, merciless is a joke against non AI players.
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Spirit
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
Not every SWF is a 4man, nor are all 4man SWF's even that good
As much as im against any nerf to swf or a penakty added why is this an argument?, Like people said slinger had no counterplay if he missed, so everyone assumed perfect slingers were basically all slinger players, complained he had objectively no counterplay and he got gutted like a trout, same with nurse, thr argument that nurse has no counterplay contemplates the nurse player as making as few mistakes as posible, and it is widely accepted, then why is evaluating swf as people who are good at the game wrong but making assumptions of killers saying the player is good correct, I actually don't understand the difference here.
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Agreed I have no idea how someone with more than 40 hours can get even affected by the perk.
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As much as I agree that most people in dbd are oblivious to their own mistakes I think its false to say that most mechanics cancel out between survivors and killers, if you are the best trapper in the planet and you play against not a perfect comp team but a decent team, in no way shape or form they should let you get more than a 1k, but in regards to the actual good killers I think thats completely correct the holy trinity can go toe to toe with survivors and the most skilled one often wins.
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2877339#Comment_2877339
Oh whatever, killer-players once again screw survivors over. Congratulate yourselves on destroying the only meta perk survivors have gotten in the last 4 years. Glad the developers cater to you all like lapdogs.
All those perks you mentioned are crap and you know it.
I actually want to know how merciless storm is any good, anyone whos not a bot will practically ignore it.
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I think pentimento is perfect as it is.
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Yeah it could be interesting to see some changes to those perks as second wind for example is just better resurgeance, It would be cool if resurgeance was a second wind but instead of a full heal it needed two killer stuns, since jill is a fighter.
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@MissBehavingX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2877574#Comment_2877574
Genuine question, isnt there a hook in the main lobby right outside the library? I also remember seeing hooks around the corner of the library, same level opposite the stairs
Altho yes there is a hook, the distance to it is a guaranteed escape if the survivor goes down on second floor so only way to get there is iron grasp and or with agitation, idk maybe they should put a hook on the library's first floor so killers can hook but can't bodyblock the entrance to it like it happened with the hook upstairs.
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@Lochnload_exe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2875779#Comment_2875779
Oh yeah I totally agree with the fact that her kit is weak and isn't great. My whole mindset though is her power isn't a chase based power so that is why it makes chases take longer, because you shouldn't be using it as a chase tool. That was my argument for Sadako. Again tho, she is still weak fr lol
Yeah I think thats very reasonable, you wouldn't try to use pigs hats for chasing.
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It killed any hit and run, you just got to live with it honestly, as a nerf seems nowhere near.
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@herbaljellyfish said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2874321#Comment_2874321
The cool down is based on how many crows were used. Looks like YOU are the one who doesn't know how the killer works lol. Also ruin is really good on Artist, because she can monitor it with a bird or even camp it while putting pressure elsewhere, especially on gens giving her even more ruin value. Why do I have to explain this to a Killer main?
The cooldown is based on the number of crows used thats correct, making it so that basekit artist has a very small window to hit the second crow after swarming with the first one, time which a survivor can use to run away or just juke the second crow and force another cooldown.
In regards to an artist camping ruin, the only way she could pressure gens with ruin like that is if she didn't had set cooldown, as even if a crow gets you off a gen it will keep you at bay less than 6 seconds which is lets ruin regress almost nothing, and if she is throwing birds at ruin you can actually use her cooldown to cleanse the hex since swarming doesn't interrupt the cleansing action.
And if you get sniped by an artist that tells more about your movement and predictability than about artist strenght.
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How fast can they end the match/ kill someone?
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Consider yourself lucky, grab validation normally just denys the grab and makes you swing after the survivor already is out of sight.
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@Lochnload_exe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2875667#Comment_2875667
Then clearly you must just be having the worst time ever as artist lmao idk how you can be doing so bad with her, it sounds like you had some awful games and thought, "boy the forums gotta hear about this one". Her being 115 alone makes her higher than deathslinger, trickster, and huntress and it means you are limited by maps or bad rng and can still resort to being a m1 killer when needed.
It isn't just knowledge she gets either, she can most certainly be a threat as well from anywhere on the map, and again, if you are doing that bad in chase as a killer who has that strong of a chase power, it is a skill issue from your part. If you are walking up to loops and trying to set all 3 crows up, then you are playing her wrong. Her kit is based around putting survivors into lose/lose situations and if you aren't reading those situations then it is on you. There isn't a single tile or set up she can't at least make survivors leave instantly lol
Do you not think it is weird you think she is somehow worse than TRICKSTER while others put her close to S tier? Nah she is just bad and you are the best at this game, you could never make mistakes.
As much as I think that artist opinion is an L take, sadako imo is a joke, I have never feel threathened by her in any way, her tp can be rendered useless by picking the tape and I only have to return it last second, I am willing to say freddys passive sleep is more of a slowdown than condemned, also she has incredibly obvious audio when she tps so unless you playing without sound she should not get any tp hits.
Regarding her being m1, well those killers are easily dunked on by any half decent player, I actually cannot believe it possible for a good team to let her get more than a 1k and that is if shes like the best sadako player in the world.
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I think its not about making killers be nurse tier, but making killer skill matter against good survivors, you can be the best most skilled legion on the planet but a good team should never let you get more than a 1k no matter your plays/choices as killer.
And I think that is what some people take issue with, they want a killer in which skill expression matters against oponents that know how to play the game.
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@Percival_nxs said:
Im currently in a win streak and my build is:
Ruin + Undying + Haunted ground + Pentimento.
What i do is pressure the gens at the early game thanks to the Ruin, hitting survivors, not necessary downing them (with this killer you cant commit to chases).
They will waste a lot of time by looking for the totems and with pentimento this is even Better.
Good build if COH didn't exist, getting exposed (for lets be generous and asume 120 seconds with two procs thx to undying), but gaining COH and a dull totem to apply it all match is a no brainer, also shes not like slinger/spirit/nurse in which exposed is actually threathening, shes m1, you can waste all of the exposed time on a good loop and dunk on her.
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@herbaljellyfish said:
You can't reason on a killer main biased forum. You are completely right. She's not even a skill-based killer, but a knowledge based killer(knowledge of loops and tiles). Her zoning is through the roof. People LOVE to point out her coooldown on birds, but SHE DOESN'T HAVE TO USE ALL 3 IN A CHASE!!!! That argument is not only tiring, but completely illogical. The only way to counter Artist is a bad Artist. Her base speed makes "shift + w" go out the window. You either eat the bird AND take an M1, or you take an M1 trying to move to another tile, which by the way is completely dictated on the placement of birds(zoning). She has no 1v1 counterplay. She can completely zone and deny direction altogether. There is NO REASON as an Artist that your chases should last more than 20 seconds. I would NOT say she is braindead, but easily the most oppressive killer in chase WHILE having incredible map/gen pressure. Can't tell you how many times I've been hit by birds while she is chasing someone else because of their infinite range. It's insane.
She's easily S tier, but not played often because she is incredibly boring. Hell, I see more Legion's than Artists. Her gameplay as a killer is boring and going against her is just unfun. There is no mindgame and no outplaying her. Artists get easy 4ks but nobody plays her because she's extremely busted. Killer mains just LOVE to cry that other people are crying when something is incredibly busted. Throw on Ruin/Undying/Pain Resonance and she is God in solo Q. She's not even allowed in tournaments because she is busted.
When you make a crow take flight a cooldown activates right after, man doesn't even know how the killer works and here dissing everyone who plays her, and since when is ruin still good? With the recent meta if survs let ruin active more than 30 seconds my guess is even an addonless trapper can clap that team.
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Most hexes are useless so unless you have a 5 stack devour no other hex is worth defending as most of them are really bad.
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@OpenX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2870508#Comment_2870508
It's surveillance + ruin in one perk. I think it's the best gen defense perk that has come out in ages. And it's consistent and not RNG based like PR. This site is pretty accurate with the ranking most of the time. It's only going to be good on killers who can play a gen defense game, not the killers who need to tunnel.
Dead by Daylight Killer perks | What perks are the best killer perks in the game? (dennisreep.nl)
They even came out with the addons and those are pretty accurate too, although only a handful of people have done them so far.
We can fully agree that call of brine is a perk that benefits some killers more than others, but on a killer that has no map pressure DMS+PR is infinetly more valuable, altho I personally think that como is bs is undeniably better for the meme killers, I enjoy call of brine and think its a healthy perk since it makes kicking gens not useless but as I said before you can use your perk slots on much better things, now if you are playing a good killer and perks don't matter that much, call of brine is a nice tool to slow the game without taking much time from you.
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@OpenX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2870412#Comment_2870412
No he only plays while streaming.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2868532#Comment_2868532
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/P79BTIHTYJ2R/yeah.png
I mean what else can I say? Literally hundreds of people agree with me on a polling website. Literally #3 best killer perk. Just because you can't see the value in it doesn't mean other people don't.
Tons of people said wraith was OP and hundreds review bombed the game claiming OG freddy was incredibly strong, Im still thinking if they were right, call of brine is good in fact I use it, but its not the best thing since shredded cheese.
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@jesterkind said:
Well, that's not quite true, is it?
Boons don't always give you the value. If you leave the 24m radius, it stops giving you literally any value at all; there's no spot on the map you could stand where your Hex would be disabled.
Since we're talking about Boons and not CoH specifically, let's also take a look at the strength tradeoffs in exchange for being able to set it back up again- an act that eats away at time you could be spending on generators, for the record.
Now, we do have some weak hexes, there's no denying that, but the idea is for a big impact that survivors are compelled to try and turn off, whereas boons are supposed to provide more minor buffs in a limited area in exchange for being able to be relit. We're going to discard CoH here since we're looking at all boons and CoH is clearly its own problem, and so... yeah, they actually do seem fair. Shadow Step is clearly the strongest one, and even that only gives you an edge. It's nowhere near as impactful as Devour Hope or Ruin, and that's the strongest of the three. The other two provide their own benefits, they're not useless, but they're nowhere near as strong as the average hex.
I swear, there should be a banner at the top of the forum that says "Before you post about Boons, stop and consider if you actually just mean CoH".
I completely agree with this, COH might be way better than any hex, but it is the exception not the rule, you want to stand here and explain to me how dark theory is better than devour?
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Watch them make legion even weaker
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@OpenX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2868129#Comment_2868129
Well that's NA east. That's what you get out there. I don't need to convince you lmao. You think it's a surprise weaker killers are going to lose to good players regardless of the perk setup?
If you have that mindset, go spam 4x slowdown Nurse. Everything else is a waste of your time.
I really don't think that, and I enjoy some of the weaker killers/perks too in fact hysteria is one of my favourite perks, but I don't try to say they are strong because they aren't.
I have no problem with people enjoying something in dbd just don't make it seem better than it really is because most of the time it isn't.
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@OpenX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2867851#Comment_2867851
That's the CoB plague run, id have to find the Bubba ones. He tried it on a bunch of weaker killers and was still getting 10-15 before SWFs eventually broke the streak.
He's can be pretty toxic but if you want to learn how to win there's not too too many better people to look at. The guy got to an 800+ winstreak before MMR
So on weaker killers he won until he versed acually good people?, Doesnt really convince me, if I judge a perk I think ill judge it against people who are good at the game or overcharge and merciless storm would be incredible by those standars.
Also up to at least 2 hours of footage I have seen people deadhard to dodge hits and not get distance, no team forcing a fountain reset and even survivors getting mindgamed on cowshed, I literally could make a case on how thana is OP based on the same video.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I really dislike the current killer meta. Not the direction the game should be going IMO. I get that the skill gap between the top and mid to low end is a problem, but a strong auto-pilot/training wheels meta is A: not fun to face and B: completely busted in the hands of a skilled killer. I had two games in a row tonight that I 4k'd at 5 gens with Agitation/Pain Resonance.
The synergy between Pain Res/DMS is problematic because the only counterplay is to not do a gen for a brief period. That can't be the intended design. I get off a gen for 10 seconds, watch it blow up (which the killer sees), and then get chased off to proc DMS. This is braindead gameplay.
I agree this combo shouldn't waste so much time as the killer imput on it is really minimal and it gets massive value, so im all for a DMS nerf as I personally think PR is in a good spot atm.
However this applies to both sides imo deadhard can buy time freely without any significant input, as both dms and dh feel equally bad to play as you lose time not because of a misplay but because someone just decided to press a button so ill want to see them both changed imo.
Altho I have more ideas on how to nerf DMS than dh as I have no idea how to change it without making it useless.
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@Emeal said:
There is a part of the Community that refuses to engage with RPD, they try to say its about the map being bad. But having talked to a load of them, I think its just about them refusing to learn the layouts. They have put in their heads that RPD should not be learned and they never will.
Sad. because its one of my fav maps and I win so often on here.
I know the layout by memory and I do not give up nor dc on the map, yet I hold the opinion is the worst map on the game, pallets are either useless or god pallets, mindgames on that map are boring, fun killers like billy or blight have the fun part of the power destroyed.
Furthermore exit gate placement is bad, the map has exelent boon placement so COH will be usable in multiple floors while many structures limit the killers access to the boon, windows are useless as only one of them is safe and it leads to an incredibly safe loop.
The critisism of RPD isn't just made by people who don't know the layout, the map is a horrible designed map for a match of dbd.
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Idk its very funny how bad legion is, there is something special about a killer with no power.
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She has a lullaby so you can be alert when shes nearby and not get surprised, as well as she not being invisible so you can see easily were she is coming from.
When she tps there is a global audio and if she tps near you you can tell from where by a directional audio, she has to wait 100 seconds to tp to the same tv again so tp is innofensive if you have headphones.
Now if thats not your style you can take the tape from the tv and prevent her from tping there and since condemed is useless you can just put the tape last second before getting fully condemed.
Finally, concerning chase, shes an m1 killer so you as survivor are the one who dictates the chase, equip deadhard since sadako can't do anything about it.
Hope you can dunk on some sadakos with these tips.
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@Tr1nity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2865284#Comment_2865284
No way out be like:
Id argue no way out is better than starstruck.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2865324#Comment_2865324
There’s no literally purely objective way to tell precisely that one side play x% better than the other obviously, but generally speaking I think it’s reasonable to talk in broad terms that if all the players in a match have roughly the same experience and practice in the game and appear to not be making disproportionate numbers of unforced errors then they are likely playing roughly equally well. And statistically the balance goals are set so that hopefully if all the players are on the same skill level then the results will tend to be 1-3 kills most games versus being wild swings between 0 kills and 4 kills.
So really there’s two main metrics they’re looking at: average kills per match and the variance or swinginess of kills per match. They want the average to be about 2, since that is roughly where most people would expect close games to average, and they also don’t want the variance to be too high in that 0 and 4 kills are the exceptions and most games are in the 1-3 ballpark.
I agree with that and its pretty obvious thats their balancing goal, so we can agree on that, however a 2k is still a lose for killer as I said before if you let 2 people escape you played badly.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2864789#Comment_2864789
You literally are saying above that “the side that plays better determines if the exits open” but that immediately implies you think if both sides play equally well it should be a 50/50 chance the gates open. Which conflicts with the design goal that most games be in the 1-3 kill range.
On the contrary, I think its completely imposible both sides play equally well, one will undoubtely best the other, so yes I do believe the 50/50 is imposible because both sides being equally skilled is imposible.
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God if I could apply corrupt at will each 40 seconds now that would be chaos.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2864635#Comment_2864635
The game is designed around 1-3 survivors escaping being the most common outcome. The gens are supposed to be completed most games when both sides play equally well. This notion that there's supposed to be a 50/50 chance of the gens being done is mistaken.
I never said its a 50/50 chance, the role who plays better determines the outcome, if the survivors manage to not only repair all gens but to escape no matter how many survs, you as a killer are objectively a failure.
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If you let 2 survivors escape as killer you got dunked on, not only did you fail to stop them repairing all gens but you also let two of them out the exit gates, you failed as a killer, thats a w for survivors.
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Thats not how furin works fam, they can still hear the directional audio.
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@APoipleTurtle said:
Just to mix it up, I'm going to say either a weaker form of Call of Brine (faster base regression speed from specifically kicking gens).
and Overcharge (to more effectively challenge survivors who gen-tap to stop regression).
Does any sentient being actually fail the overcharge skillcheck?
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I am coming back to playing her as uni had me busy, im not doing as good as before but iron will never affected me that much, as I started playing spirit while blasting music, mostly relying on reads.
Now that being said the directional audio is a bouble edged sword since you can use it as sort of a red stain to mindgame survivors and then just use the extended lunge to hit them, altho a good survivor will never get fooled by that, unless you have MDR cuz of the speed, and cherry blossom is something I hate, just give me back my extended passive phasing.
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I Main yoichi because that raincoat is sick af.
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I personally agree, altho I play for the 4k most of the time, I am aware that games will get harder and thats ok, in fact me not being able to win hard games means even after 1.5k hours im still ######### at the game because im pretty sure I could have played that better 99% of the times and maybe gotten more than 2k or 1k.
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I expect the legion and ghostface changes are gonna make them worse. Probably some new gamebreaking bugs like lithe crashing everyones game, some pointless perk changes, a lot of addon nerfs, and some bad perks that were buffed so bad they straight up repeat the boil over fiasco.
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@PeaceNGrease said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2860751#Comment_2860751
That's probably because most people playing Sadako (from my experience) aren't used to trying to use stealth in chase, because for most killers outside of Spirit, cloaking and uncloaking in chase loses you too much time.
Also, it's not supposed to just win every pallet interaction. That's the whole reason so.eone like spirit got nerfed, their invis power was too in their favor. Sadako can be just as difficult to predict at some loops, and TL walls are usually a piece of cake that survivors never can feel to safe at.
Unless you 4K with nurse every single game, I don't get why you would think a killer not having 100% 0 counterplay would be good. Hell, even the best nurses face counterplay, they don't win every pub match, let alone Tournament level.
Tl walls can be played as any m1 killer effectively tho, so no need to even use demanifestation unless you wanna do some tricky stuff.
I heavily disagree on sadakos unpredictability, she is an m1 killer, can't dash can't rush, she is limited to normal speed, so in a loop she is as predictable as a wraith, imo both shimmer and demanifestation are as easily identifiable, even if she tps mid chase to confuse you, you can still position yourself in a safe spot ready to loop again, and if she is not going for you just hop on a gen, there is not that much technique to dunk on her.
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@PeaceNGrease said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2860677#Comment_2860677
You always have Demanifest, it isn't anti-loop but to say it isn't a good chase tool for her is short-sighted.
Maybe against people who dont know what they are doing, I personally haven't been mindgamed by demanifestation once, I have mindgame some survs with it but they were nowhere near decent at the game.
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@IronKnight55 said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/7X2G9F2EUGWP/dbd-281-29.png
Yeah, I can usually get a lot of points with her. She is awesome 😄
Im actually boggled at how this team managed to lose, like were they memeaing, cuz they had all the tools to destroy a sadako yet somehow they got 4ked, like how is that even posible.
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@Kuinzu said:
I've had a lot of trouble with Sadako, I find looping her so difficult. She's quite a small killer, so you have to pay such close attention to where she's going. To me, it also looks like she doesn't have to manifest to hit you, not sure if this is true, but it looks like she does this while 'invisible' and then becomes visible when hitting you.
How is it hard to loop a m1 killer, they cant do anything at any loop, as a survivor you have full control of the chase and if you are distracted or misjudge a distance you can just dh, I dont get really how looping a m1 killer has any depth.
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@lauraa said:
I was convinced that Merciless Storm was a terrible perk and that the scourge hook would be beast mode but I've seen more value so far from merciless storm...crazy.
That being said, I dont think itll be nerfed. If Nurse hasn't got Starstruck and lethal pursuer nerfed yet then I dont see any hope of Nurse getting this nerfed
How can people get value from mercyless? Survivors have to have under 50 hours or be throwing intentionally for the perk to get value.
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@Emeal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2847062#Comment_2847062
It does not verify your assumption that its its a high sample size or your assumption that concurrent average/peak are worthy metrics to determine that.
On the contrary, if you take random samples out of those charts with the months as a categoric value and make a t student test for each one the accuracy of the parameter can be pretty good, so as far as you are saying yes you might be right about fallacies but stayistically that data is more than enough to understand if the last months show a significant decrease on dbd players, specially because they are averages which is a very good test statiscic for things like a t test or even an ANOVA test if the distributions are normal, check if I said something false because im pretty sure this an actual good proposition for multiple statistical analysis with the steamcharts data as a sample of the dbd population.
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@RakimSockem said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/313740/sadako-vs-coh-is-just-impossible
You've told yourself that she has to be hit an run. No killer has to play hit and run besides Legion. With how fast you can teleport around the map, I'd argue that hit and run is the dumbest playstyle on her because once you get your BBQ info after a hook, you can get just about anywhere on the map faster than most killers
Good argument saddly she is an m1 killer so even if she could be anywhere anytime any decent player can loop her for days, when she teleports to me I feel as treatened as when I see a trapper which is to say not treatened at all, although her animations are cool tho.
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I have never dced on rpd, I have played re2 remake countless times and know the layout, the map is still bad, because even if you know where to go, that doesn't take away that loops on that map are horribly designed, they are either unmindgameable pallets or straight up m1 guaranteed for killer, most fun killer powers don't work in the map and since it has double floors its a huge map, all of that makes it bad without even taking into account the "just learn the layout" argument.