sinkra
sinkra
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@squbax said:
Very true, killers that can injure a ton of survivors really fast are very strong. Legion has been a force to be reckoned with for such a long time.
Also I did play a lot of twins for like a year after they released, and I am genuinly curious what is interesting about using charlotte? She is just an m1 killer with tbf boring animations, she has no unique aspect. The whole point of the twins is victor, charlotte is just there to keep the standar killer gameplay.
It's not just about being strong or kill rate, it's about fun. I believe these changes are going to make Viktor both less fun to play and play against. Since many survivors don't have much experience playing against Twins they have no clue what's coming if Viktor can double tap them.
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@Green_Sliche said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3689390#Comment_3689390
That's what I mean, everyone will be wounded at best but when it comes to downing you can now down only one person as Victor no matter what as opposed to old one where you could down only wounded people, but that could be entire survivor team.
The only question is will this 10% speed buff be enough to get there in time to have the downed target hooked afterwards.
I don't see how this solves the slugging issue if that's what they wanted to solve, it just flips it around. Before Viktor could down multiple people while injured, but he could only injure 1. Now he can injure the whole team with no downtime, and then Charlotte goes around slugging the rest with a 10% haste buff.
If they wanted to solve the chain slugging all they had to do was make it so Viktor stays attached after both injuring and slugging, that's it.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3689397#Comment_3689397
can’t Victor leap over pallets? I haven’t played twins in a few weeks but I believe he can actually jump over them.
Yes, Viktor can jumpe over pallets and hit a survivor at the same time.
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If the problem was they wanted to fix the slugging playstyle all they had to do was make Viktor also attach when downing a survivor, and then give Charlotte a small speed buff when a survivor is downed to compensate. Instead they're taking a sledgehammer to the whole playstyle and turning Twins into something completely different.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3689374#Comment_3689374
So the counter is just don’t get hit bro?
Well, at least they’re giving Victor a terror radius. That’s something.
I'm extremely unhappy about that too. Part of the whole fun of Viktor was sneaking up on survivors and then latching on to them out of nowhere while screaming. It's extremely funny. It's just going to be generic now like Legion 2.0.
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@Predated said:
I mean, survivors are just not going to heal if you keep playing as Victor. They are going to heal if you play as Charlotte.
This is not overpowered at all. Victor cant use perks to find people. And while true, its annoying for him to constantly search the map. Survivors will hide if Victor is out, tap on gens, hide in lockers if Victor is about to hit them so he latches on.
I agree that on paper she sounds stronger, but she is significantly weaker. The fact that Victor no longer gives killer instinct is already a huge reduction in powerViktor does not need perks or scratch marks to find people. He's so fast that he covers the whole map in seconds. When I play Twins I'm not using Charlotte to find people, I'm using Viktor zooming around the map.
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@Green_Sliche said:
Theoretical counter is being near wounded survivor. From my understanding Victor can injure multiple survivors now, but once he tries to down someone he will end up latching which means your control is restored to Charlotte afterwards and you get 10% haste unless you hit someone. The problem here is if there's another survivor, then Victor can be crushed while being latched on downed player and that player can be healed before Charlotte gets there.
I believe you can't just injure everyone with Victor and then switch to Charlotte without having Victor crushed afterwards, right? So basically you can have everyone injured like Legion, but when it comes to getting downs and hooks Twins are now weaker unless survivors are spread and don't try to help to each other, which can work in SoloQ match but probably do nothing against SWFs.
Being near a wounded survivor with Viktor around is just going to get the other survivor injured as well. Then Viktor downs one of them and Charlotte comes running with a haste buff for the hook. Mark my words if this change goes live Twins will be the most overpowered killer this game has ever seen, even more so than SM rework. Then if they have to nerf Viktor's speed to compensate it will turn him into Legion 2.0 and ruin the fun playstyle of why us Twins mains play it in the first place.
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Ok I found the devs addressed this on Twitter. They're answer for how to counter Viktor after the update is simply to dodge his attack. However any good Twins player almost never misses with Viktor.
https://twitter.com/DeadbyDaylight/status/1773353911954329994 -
@Yharwick said:
I get they were trying to solve the Victor hostage crisis and the slugging issue with this change and to give BHVR credit they're very close to doing that they just need to do one thing with these current changes.
- Make Victor latch on every hit down or injure
There now it'll be harder for Twins to snowball and slug and survivors are playing a very dangerous game taking Victor hostage because Charlotte will be zooming around the map if the don't get rid of him.
Exactly if they wanted to change the slugging playstyle all they had to do was make Viktor also attach when both injuring and downing a survivor, and give Charlotte a little speed boost when a survivor is downed. Instead they took a sledgehammer to the problem and completely changed the playstyle into some kind Legion 2.0.
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@OneGoodBoyDemo said:
Let's put the theory to the test first shall we? before getting into a conclusion.
I worry the devs will try to balance it by making Viktor slower and giving him a terror radius, but that would ruin the uniqueness and fun of the playstyle and make him just like any other killer.
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@_Onyx_ said:
I can see where you're coming from. But from a different perspective, even if these changes are quite right, this is the direction Twins need to be taken in.
Twins atm are punished for both missing and succeeding with their power. This change makes it so they're only punished for missing. On top of that, these changes also pull the control of the power back to the Twins. Atm Survivors control the Twins power.
I am very excited to see these changes play out, personally.
Viktor staying attached when injuring a survivor was the counter for him being unloopable because of his very high speed. It creates a flow where I'm constantly switching between Viktor and Charlotte and their synergy. I don't see how survivors are going to have any counterplay if Viktor can injure them AND then immediately down them with no downtime in between. So now the strat is going to be just stay as Viktor 90% of the time and only use Charlotte for hooking? This feels very weird.
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@Ayodam said:
If the game feels unplayable with out then you should really work on learning tiles and pathing. Also situational awareness helps with knowing which pallets remain and which have been used.
I don't have the mental capability to memorize all the vault locations on every map and then remember which have been used per match. If Windows gets nerfed I will feel blind.
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@Starrseed said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/409662/why-is-no-one-talking-about-the-bot-nerf
I'm pretty sure this only applies to custom games not the dc bots
If a dev could clarify it would be good, but they made no distinction between bots in custom matches and regular games.
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I'll admit that for many players including myself this perk is a huge crutch, and the game practically feels unplayable without it.
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It seems like these devs just don't want survivors to have any good perks at all. Mark my words Windows of Opportunity and LIthe are probably next on the chopping block.
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@Beatricks said:
Different people in charge of development.
Does anyone disagree that at the very least the main game should have social features like mobile? In that game you can post in LFG and send messages to anyone. I'm on console and it's not even possible to see or use post-game chat. It's not even possible to send messages to friends in game. Console literally has zero social accessibility.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3684499#Comment_3684499
This attitude of "it is a killer perk" is completely misguided.
Let me ask you, do you TRULY believe, that the perk designers at behavior, sat around and said: "######### survivor players, let's make a survivor perk that is so bad that it actually is a killer perk, that'll show those losers"
Or is it more reasonable that because this is a brand new mechanic to the game, that they are being super conservative with it because they aren't fully sure how it is all going to work out?
The perk is likely going to get buffed at some point, and pretending its not, or pretending that BHVR is in some way intentionally doing this is disingenuous.
There's no way I can believe that the devs play-tested this perk and then decided it's viable. The only conclusion is that they made it bad on purpose, probably so they don't have to worry about it being overpowered. Even if a perk is bad, at the very least a survivor perk should be a net benefit for the survivor and not a net benefit for the killer.
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@arcaneGospel said:
That's not what the kill-switch is for. The kill-switch is exclusively to be used to shut down something that is currently bugged in such a way it makes the match completely or practically unplayable for one side, somehow. It is not something used on things that are perceived as bad.
Think Weaving Spiders is bad all you want, but it won't be kill-switched, because it is functional.
It practically does make the game unplayable when someone on your team uses it though. Try using it yourself and see if you can escape.
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One of my strats as Trapper is using NOED and setting up traps near the exit gates, then finding the survivors and pretending to be their friend so they let me stay in close proximity. Then as soon as the last gen pops I immediately start slugging. It's surprisingly effective.
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If a killer can go on a 1700 game win streak it means the game is broken
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Furthermore if someone doesn't want to see chat they could just add an option to disable it in the settings. This would all take like 5 minutes of coding, there's no reason we should be waiting years for this.
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@daddroid1 said:
You asked for a way for console players to communicate. I offered one I thought could be easy for the developers to implement, thus improving the chances of actually being implemented. I'd expect the range of responses, written by the devs, would cover the large majority of cases and exclude toxic responses. I thought that last point would be a feature, not a bug. Are you suggesting you want the option to be (and other console players) as toxic in this game as you've seen elsewhere?
Why do you think pc players should have access to chat but console players shouldn't? I can't think of any reason for the disparity. If you're saying that chat leads to toxicity then pc players shouldn't have chat either, right?
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I played SM a lot and I think the biggest problem is being undetectable. There's no cd on drones so it feels insane that I can just run around the map constantly undetectable and walk right up to survivors on gens.
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@Raptoraurz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3683973#Comment_3683973
2290 posts here but you didn't even read the "January 2024" stats reveal by the developers themselves.
Alright, here is the link. https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/433
Basically half the killers are above 58-60% killrate. And developers don't even hide they want killers to be at 60% killrate (like why, why not 50%).
Alright, let's forget about killers. What about 40-41% winrate of surviving? That's way below 50%. It's only fine with 48% at very high MMR where people are basically acting like tournament mode, but that's like in every other game. Only top 1-2-5% of the whole community achieve high MMR stats. What about the medium MMR? I am not talking about low MMR, what about an average gameplay MMR experience? It's still around 40-41% and it's not even close to 45%. Why?
I agree, killrates are different than winrates. But if developers spread messages like "50% killrate is fine for getting 2 kills" so that means like a tie/draw. Above 50% means:
1) Personal player is skilled enough to win matches by killing more survivors.
2) Flaws in balance.
Since the killrate here represents ALL MMR combined, not personal gaming experience or certain MMR bracket, do you really believe that suddenly killer players are all so good and full of skills and survivors are suddenly dropping in skills? I wonder why, after all the nerfs survivors got and all the perks that require literally nothing to do, just a simple action, like "let me open a locker to become a mini-Doctor".
I think the reason is because they want the game balanced at the highest level. High MMR 4-man SWF has an escape rate nearly 10% higher than the rest of survivors, so a 50% kr would mean the elite players are escaping 60% of the time.
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@Friendly_Blendette said:
The problem with balancing around kills is that at least 1 kill is basically guaranteeed if the killer just camps and tunnels on person. On the otherhand 1 escape is basically left up to RNG if you dont slug for 4k. The game shifts so much as soon as a survivor is killed so something like a 2 out is very hard to balance around. Since for a 2,3,4 out the same number of gens needs to be done its really quite a fine line. Once all gens are done unless the killer is running a ton of endgame perks its really coming down to just how long does the final chase last and how alturistic the survivors are. I think the most "fair" scenario is that there are 2 survivors left by the time gates are powered and the killer hooks and kills the 3rd survivor right as the last gen pops. Then its 1 survivor loops the killer, the other opens and gate and hopefully they both get out but then certain killers are extremely good at holding the gate and should have to deal with 3 survivors in the endgame but thats really hard to account for and balance around.
TLDR: Due to the progression of a match the game the killrate isn't really something you can balance for,
This is one of the easiest games to balance ever because the win conditions are clear, and there are only 2 roles and 1 game mode. For example I played WoW and that game is a nightmare to balance in comparison. There are 13 classes, 36 specializations, both PVE and PVP game modes, many different abilities and talents, new gear coming out constantly with a bunch of stats and secondary powers.
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The vast majority of the playerbase would prefer a 50% kr instead of the current 60%.
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I don't think this game has MMR based matchmaking, meaning a system that tried to pair roughly equally skilled players. Instead it has EOMM (engagement-optimized matchmaking). The difference is that EOMM places you with and against players way above or below your MMR, which is why games are often a total stomp or you get stomped.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3682317#Comment_3682317
Just because its 50% doesn't mean its balanced when the game is asymm. At least if you mean win rate. See above post for more details.
2K's count but not as a win. So as far as "winrate" goes they are not a win. You can't win half your matches if that half is all draws.
If killer was extremely likely to either lose or get a draw, no one would want to play it. They need wins too.
it's not like most other PvP games where the only outcomes are win/lose where 50% works. Having win/draw/lose throws off the 50% a bit. 2 out of 3 outcomes are not wins for the killer.
There are many games where draws are possible. In those games the average win rate is below 50% of course.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3682295#Comment_3682295
what about for: 1,2,2,3? That's a 50% kill rate. But only a 25% win rate. Also more likely than the bouncing between getting 0 or 3 every match completely skipping the middle of 1 and 2. Those are not realistic results in your example.
In a theoretical on paper yeah 50% kill rate could work if we could guarantee extremes one way or the other. But extremes being the most common occurrence aren't how things work, that's why they're extremes. The killer is not bouncing between 0K and 4K all the time, most of it is in-between.
It's not going to be 0,4,0,4,0,4,0,4,0,4. It's going to be more like 0,2,4,3,1,3,2,3,4,2. Which is still a 50% win rate with a 60% kill rate. Add 1 kill and you have the 62.5 you were given.
To be 50% kill rate it'd be more like 0,2,3,3,2,1,2,3,2,2 which is only a 30% win rate.
As far as I have put together at least. Having a 50% kill and win rate hasn't worked out in any reasonable model of how the game and matches would actually go which include 1 and 2K's not just 0 or 4 and 0 or 3.
Matches with DCs and players just giving up early obviously shouldn't be factored in. That's a separate issue and not normal intended gameplay.
3 of 5 outcomes are not wins for the killer (0,1,2). So it should be favored towards them a bit imo.
@RpTheHotrod idk if this is similar to what you were trying to express.
A 60% kill rate is a 60% win rate. It's a 1v1 x4 confirmed by a dev.
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@Blueberry said:
As you get to high mmr on killer your opinion will change a lot.
Here's proof this game is massively unbalanced. Otz is a top-tier player who can go on massive win streaks as killer, yet can't escape more than 40% of the time after hundreds of matches. The devs have ruined this game for survivors.
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3682279#Comment_3682279
Facts are a real bummer. Must really hate math, eh? A 75+% kill rate in a match is a win with a 3k+. A 50% kill rate in a match is not a win with only a 2k. 75% is the minimum for a win. At 62.5%, it's the halfway point between on average always winning and on average not winning. Essentially, it's a 50% win rate. Going down just a few percent to 60% generally still means they are expected to win roughly half their matches, but with an occasional extra loss when averaging several matches. I know you spout that kills have nothing to do with winning, but come on, it literally does. 3k+ is how a killer wins a match. We don't want to killers to have an average of a 75% kill rate because on average they'd always win. We don't want them to have a 50% kill rate because on average they'd never win. That's why they go with 60%, on average over a period of matches, that grey area between those two numbers gives them room to both win and not win on average. 62.5% is the true middle point, but they opted to drop it down to 60%. With that bring said, we have several killers in low to mid 50% which means they are a lot closer to only getting a 2k every match than if they were at the intended 60%.
50% kr is balanced. Anything else isn't. You can't just say "draws" don't count when it's 2k.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
I don't know but it's getting exhausting, there is little to much you can do now with killers slugging on purpose to draw the match out in solo queue, the maps are way too small now so pressure is easier than ever and 3 genning is easier than ever, the 3 gen fix doesnt do enough (it should have been focused on 3 genning not what they implemented).
Skull Merchant still hasn't been dealt with, she is the most unfun thing to interact with.
Most of the new killers are easy enough to play but very hard for survivors to survive against.
Hooks are too easy to win the game by, camping them with scourge hooks and hyper mobility for free pressure. I really feel hook durations need extended still to compensate for the increased gen times.
The devs knew SM was busted for a year because they have the data, and they did nothing. How is any killer with a 70% kill rate not being hotfixed asap. This game can no longer be taken seriously as a competitive game.
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@WolfyWood said:
Why would they want the less popular role to be difficult to play?
There's no shortage of killers. On EU there's a survivor bonus 90% of the time. The question is why would they want to put 80% of their players at an unfair and unfun disadvantage to appease killer mains.
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@Shirtless_Myers said:
The developers want an unbalanced, biased game that favors killers. You can see this through almost all aspects of this PvP game that is forgotten that this is a PvP game. Playing Killer is a W in almost every single game currently, yet there are still no plans to alter the game flow with various aspects that are poorly designed. Poor solo queue is sitting around a 35% win rate if we want to include DCs and suicides that happen frequently, yet Huntress gets a buff instead.
It makes no sense to me why they want the game to be EZ mode for killers and miserable for survivors when survivors are 80% of their playerbase.
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They want the game to be EZ mode for killers.
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Nearly 10 matches today and zero escapes. The game feels unplayable.
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@Bafugaboo said:
I have similar issues when playing. I try to stay fun as the killer. By that I mean I will spread hooks and allow them all to play the game. I give them the sense that I am going for them to hype their loop or hide senses. Then after a few matches of gens flying by I play for real a few matches which is painful as I know they have less fun when I do this. How do I know? I also play survivor and realized it’s the whole experience of uncertainty that you will survive but knowing you have a chance that makes it fun. If the killer goes full try hard it’s often not enjoyable. This is due to the case as you mentioned that not every other player is skilled.
My best guess to fix this is change how the requirement to get the 1 mil bp to games played instead of the current format. They do need a measuring stick for some to brag about tho so having something to show off like your rank can be there. It just should be separated so that some do not need to try hard to get the extra reward.
The fact that so many killers even feel like they should "go easy" to make it fair shows there's a major problem with balance.
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You should post this on the subreddit too.
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Keep in mind most of the big streamers are killer mains. The devs try to keep them happy.
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My question is why haven't devs done anything yet about SM or other op killers? They had the stats long before they released them and SM has had a 70% kill rate for nearly a year. They keep buffing killers lower than 60% but do nothing about the killers that are op by their own standards.
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This perk is so bad that it's basically a perk for the killer. There's no way the devs don't realize this. They're making new survivor perks terrible on purpose. Only killers get to have good things these days.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3669494#Comment_3669494
Us vs. them... nice. I play killer more than survivor and want a balanced game.
The game is balanced around a 60% kill rate according to the devs. This is not something your local "killa main - monsters" decided.
I for my part, have to say that DBD pre 6.1.0 felt horrible. The worst was the period with hit validation on DH - dash. It literally made killer players quit or move over to survivor period.
Im glad this changed for the better.
Ok 60% kill rate, surely you agree then that all the killers with a kill rate above 60% should be nerfed then right? If 60% is the standard then that should be the absolute max, because anything more becomes too oppressive.
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@daddroid1 said:
Instead of a thumbs up that goes nowhere, could have that open a drop down with pre-written appropriate comments to select from. I’d expect 5-10 would cover pretty much all the bases, be quick to use, and avoid toxicity
That could help as well, but if the argument that console players shouldn't have chat to reduce toxicity then you may as well remove the chat function from pc players as well. Heck you may as well remove chat from every online game that exists because it can result in toxicity.
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The devs keep buffing killers for no reason when they already win most games. It's like they want survivors to just quit.
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It's probably going to used more to troll than actual benefit.
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I was playing as SM for a while but I don't want to even do it anymore because it's too oppressive in so many ways. It doesn't feel fair so it doesn't even feel good when I win. I mean who thought it was a good idea to give her undetectable 96% of the time when moving around the map?
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@JPLongstreet said:
Are any of our PC cousins really going to wait around for 14 minutes while I painfully type out a single sentence with my controller? Cause that's all I gotz! 🎮🎮
I'm not planning to write paragraphs of text, just being able to say a simiple gg would make the game feel less lonely on console.
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@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3669494#Comment_3669494
Arguing that 53% was balanced is both completely ignoring the nuance of the amount of killers/each killer's skill ceiling AND the fact that the developers themselves consider 60% balanced for an asym.
I started the game before that patch and it was hell for M1 killers. We also forget that was the time killers could down off hook if the survivors didn't run BT themselves. I also remember being trash at loops and still surviving by holding W and prethrowing pallets because most M1 killers couldn't keep up if gens were plowed through with kitted toolboxes. The game's more balanced these days and everyone has their rose-tinted glasses on too tight.
So your definition of hell pre-6.1 is survivors didn't go down in 10 seconds and killers couldn't win most games while barely trying?
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@Raconteurminator said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3669494#Comment_3669494
53% is still lower than the intended 60%. 60% kill rate = 2k on average. This tells me you don't understand what fair or balanced means, at least in this context.
According to the dictionary definition of the word balanced it's 50/50, not 60/40.