sinkra
sinkra
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It won't shorten queues and here is why. The actual number of people who want to play killer in 2v8 is higher than the amount playing it, because the long queues are motivating them to queue as survivor instead. If you reduce the amount of survivors per game so killer queues are shorter, it will just increase the number of people trying to queue as killer until it reaches the threshold equilibrium of queue time again.
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Because it's a casual fun party mode. It's not supposed to be hardcore sweaty frustration like 1v4.
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I would even say 2v8 is the superior version of the game and much more fun as survivor. 1v4 feels like an oudated alpha version in comparison.
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@GentlemanFridge said:
It was never intended to stay forever. They were quite clear about this in just about all their communication regarding the mode.
Seeing how popular this mode is, it would be one of the dumbest business decisions of all time to not make this mode permanent. The game is breaking records on steam.
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@jesterkind said:
Didn't BHVR already tell us how they're going to do this?
It'll go away at the end of the time, then they'll work on it to improve things + presumably add more killers, and it'll come back at a later date. They said they're going to iterate on it and that this is just the first version, iirc.
I'd be very upset if they take it away in 2 weeks. There's no reason to disable it at all, just leave it permanently. If they want to update it they can do that while leaving it active in the meantime.
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@HaunterofShadows said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3769422#Comment_3769422
Well to rebalance and add more characters, they're going to shut down the game mode. And that's a good thing because if they keep the game mode, the que times of the normal mode are going to suffer.
Yes it will increase killer queues, that means playing killer is really fun in this mode. It would be insane for them to not make this mode permanent because it's too popular.
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@Inosennatoki said:
Increase gen from 8 to 10 and this mode is perfect.
Why do you want the game to be easy mode for killers?
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Most fun I've ever had in the game. I can't go back to 1v4 after this. If 2v8 doesn't stay I'll just quit.
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6 gens left for 2 killers means you each patrol 3 on last one, which is the same as 1v4.
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Lol my escape rate in 2v8 is 41% and killers are still complaining the kill rate isn't high enough. You really want survivors to be just fodder for your entertainment don't you? Fine nerf survivor more but don't be surprised if killer queue goes up to 1 hour.
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@Vorahk08 said:
It seems like a good idea, but it would probably run into the problem Halloulle mentioned above. People would load into a game as survivor, die quickly, and essentially throw the game.
This happened when Overwatch tried to implement a priority pass system to get more people to play Tank and Support. People would arguably throw the game just to get their priority pass and queue up for the Damage role, which had long queue times like killer does now.
They could make it so that you only get a priority pass if you manage to escape as survivor, to prevent people from afking.
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@yogi42 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3768846#Comment_3768846
Bro did you even read what i posted?
I didnt mention anything about winning
The post is about games lasting long so the wait time is worth it
Idc if i dont kill anyone if ive had a fun game chasing someone that lasted 10mins+ i would be happy
I get its a new mode and its to be expected just surely some little changes would make it better for now
You asked for slower gen speeds which would be a direct nerf to survivors, and would make the game easier for killers. If your only concern was game length you should have also added to your post that you want survivors buffed or killers nerfed in other ways, in order to maintain the same balance we have now but with longer games.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
The only way to fix the queue discrepancy would be to make survivor appealling to play in 2v8, which is just not possible without restructuring the fundamentals of how chases work. Being chased from two directions leaves you with little to no options, because DbD was never designed with that in mind. I just can't see this ever working to be honest.
That's the radical solution I was talking about. Many people were saying the exact same thing in World of Warcraft regarding the healer shortage, "just make healer more fun to play". It never happened because the devs didn't want to change the fundamentals of the game.
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@yogi42 said:
Ive wanted 2v8 ever since my best mate started dbd
But this isnt fun
The que times being 20minutes i could look past
However games lasting 5 minutes cause gens are just popping constantly is not worth the que wait
Instead of running around with my killer friend doing fun things i feel like we have to rush everything otherwise the games over right as it started,right after waiting 20 minutes
Maybe lower gen speeds or add more? Surely people arnt enjoying quick games after a 20 to 30 minute wait time
"Instead of running around with my killer friend doing fun things i feel like we have to rush everything otherwise the games over right as it started,right after waiting 20 minutes"
The sense of killer entitlement is real. You're saying you want to relax and just goof around with your friend as killers, and STILL expect to win. Killer mains got way too used to devs catering to them for years, now the tables are turning.
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@ays12151 said:
They should bring back generators time to 90 (or 80 seconds).
70 seconds Generators are kinda fast… but the mode is very fun, so I don't care 😅
If you increase gen time or do anything to make survivor more frustrating then don't be surprised if killer queues go up to 1 hour.
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@GrimReaperJr1232 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3768685#Comment_3768685
There is no "again." The stated goal was always around 60%.
Furthermore, you're using killrates/goals of a 1v4 mode vs a 2v8 mode with a completely different ruleset. Everything is different there.
If you don't want the game to be more fun for survivors, then the queues won't improve. Actually the killers queues are about to get much, much longer when they release more killers in the 2v8 mode.
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Many killers got too used to getting a 4k nearly half the time in 1v4. 2v8 feels more balanced because survivors stand more of a chance, and it's gonna take some getting used to.
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
They would never make this permanent, it separates too many players from the queues for the main game mode
Thank goodness too, though if you enjoy it that is good for you but I am done with it personally and look forward to it ending so the regular queues go back to normal.
This is a weird point. You're basically saying 2v8 is TOO fun and therefore shouldn't be added, because players should be forced to play a more boring version of the game?
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@Tyler3 said:
Everyone wants this but the current iteration of 2v8 is more like a test run. Once it's over and BHVR have gotten enough player feedback, hopefully the mode will become permanent and with every killer.
If it's a test run it should definitely include more killers than to see how they perform in synergy with each other, why should we have to wait? It should take no more than an hour or two of coding for them to release another 5 killers. If it requires some adjustments to their abilities fine do it but don't make us wait, facing huntress every game is getting really stale.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
You likely won't see much change until a hard meta emerges or they get rid of the survivor BP bonus.
An instant queue, 400% BP gain, and only a 1 in 8 chance you'll be tunneled out first instead of 1 in 4, means you get to actually play longer and you'll actually get rewards for playing a 'balanced' game instead of throwing for touching a totem.
This is why I prefer 2v8, normal mode feels like way too much pressure as survivor. One mistake can cost you the match. 2v8 is more chill and I don't feel like I need to constantly sweat.
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@Green_Sliche said:
Don't worry, people will soon get tired of this 2v8 mode because of poor balance and limited selection of killers with only 3 of them being somewhat viable.
This mode will probably return back at some point, hopefully with more killers and better balance. For now, enjoy it while you can since you won't be getting that many games as killer anyway and those that you get will be over in 4 or 5 minutes.
If killer queues are this long with only 5 OG killers available, just imagine what will happen if they re-release the mode with all killers available.
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If the game is reaching these numbers with only 5 OG killers available in the mode, just imagine what happen if they release 2v8 with all killers available along with more perks for survivors.
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Survivor main here. Never going back to 1v4 if 2v8 becomes permanent. Most fun I've had in years.
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@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3768685#Comment_3768685
lowering kill rates does not reduce the will of people who want to play unique experience that is only active for two weeks
objectively speaking survivors got far more stronger aspects than killers compared to 1v4, only real "advantage" killers got here is literally JUST second teammates, all the powers are barely substituting perks and addons
Meanwhile survivors getting innate tunneling immunity, sprintburst with radius and extremely short cooldown, actually LESS generators to do for each survivors, countless amount of pallets, selfcare and unbreakable on death hook, basically a wallhack that can persist for like 80% of the game, the amount of ridiculous stuff survivors got is insane
Yes you agree with my point that 2v8 is more fun for survivors as well than regular 1v4. This means 2v8 will siphon survivors from 1v4, making the killer queues worse in 1v4. 1v4 now has to compete with 2v8 for survivor players, and the only way to make 1v4 more appealing for survivors is to lower the kill rate in that mode. I'm not saying the kill rate should be lowered in 2v8, I'm talking about 1v4.
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@ElodieSimp said:
There is no chance that 2v8 becomes permanent. There isn't enough survivors that are willing/wanting to queue into 2v8, and would damage 1v4 normal game mode.
There are the most people playing now in years because of this new game mode, it would be insane from a business perspective if they don't add 2v8 as a permanent mode after this.
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@GrimReaperJr1232 said:
"The main reason the kill rate was ever increased to 60% from 50% is to help reduce queue times for survivors."
This is... wrong. You are factually incorrect. What logic even is that?
My point is that if 2v8 becomes permanent the days of catering to killers are over. BHVR will want to make survivor as appealing as possible to alleviate the long killer queue, and that means lowering the kill rate back to 50%.
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@Inosennatoki said:
At least the generators should be increased from 8 to 10.
Gen was finished so fast in this mode.
If this happens then killer q time will go from 20 min to 1 hour+.
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Killer mains mad because the kill rate is close to 50% in a game mode, which is the definition of balanced.
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@Peanits said:
As others have mentioned, the purpose of the incentive is to encourage people to play Survivor in 2v8 to help balance out the queues. Survivors are needed most in the 2v8 mode right now and by a pretty large margin, so that's where the incentive goes.
We aren't able to support different bonuses for each mode at the moment, so the incentives for the regular mode are currently disabled. We're looking to separate this so we can support the appropriate incentives for both modes in the future, but to manage expectations, I would not expect the regular mode to have an incentive as big as the limited time mode (or anywhere near 400% for that matter).
If you want more survivors to play the regular mode you should aim for a 50% kill rate again, not this unbalanced 60-70% nonsense.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
Have you considered not running Third Seal and slugging all 4 of them?
That's the thing, I shouldn't have to handicap myself to give the other side a chance. I want to be able to go all out with max effort trying to win each game and it still be challenging, just like every other pvp game.
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@miniwengsel said:
I understand how you can think killers are op, if you have a 80% death rate. Do you know who has an eascape rate that low? Beginners. For Beginners the Killer always is overpowert and not becoming better at the game doesnt make you better. So stop complaining and start work on yourself to get better. I play both sides like 40 Survivor /60 Killer Its true, that I have indeed an higher kill rate than 60% Im at 76,61% at the moment, but guess what my escape rate is also on 61,96%. Now comes the funny part as killer I use the meta perks with good addons, but nothing higer than green. As survivor I use perks that give me somthing but are far from Meta. (Aftercare, Any Means, Leader and Alert) and no Items. If I would play the strongest every game I think I would deffenitly reach mutch higher escape/kill rates. If you invest more time you will get better.
Also most of the survivors, that dc and give up dont do it, because they dont think they can beat the killer most of them are just salty kids, that cant think about there own mistakes that they made.
"I play both sides like 40 Survivor /60 Killer Its true, that I have indeed an higher kill rate than 60% Im at 76,61% at the moment"
Anyone who thinks a 76% kill rate (which is common for killer mains) is fine should be never be in charge of balance in any game.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3757398#Comment_3757398
You got a source for that?
Also I'd like to know what math says for example: I always get a 2K, so I have a 50% kill rate, I draw all my games, yet I have a 50% win rate because kill rate is win rate.
Last I checked draw =/= win.
1K would be a 25% kill rate, so that would be a 25% win rate if you get a 1K every game. That doesn't seem right when a 1K is considered a loss.
Except that's not what happens. 50% kill rate does not mean all games end in a 2k. And even if every game ended as a 2k that would still be a 50% win rate because in sports statistics a draw counts as half a win.
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@Smoe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3757387#Comment_3757387
Except Survivor win rate applies to all Survivors individually, meaning for Survivor escape rate to be 50% would mean each Survivor would be on equal level as the Killer like they were back in the day.
60% kill rate isn't balanced, because like i said, it's the entire point of an asymmetrical game. It's meant to be unbalanced and uneven.
If they want killers to have a slight edge then they should aim for a 55% kill rate. 60% is just a number they pulled out of thin air without realizing the effect on the game. 60% is WILDLY imbalanced in a pvp game, like in other competitive games it would be considered game-breaking.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3757364#Comment_3757364
When you say terrible to play all I can assume is that you're saying killers don't want an equal challenge and want to win with ease.
When you say kill rate should be 50% all I can assume is that you're saying survivors don't want any challenge and want to win with ease.
you are talking about BEFORE the BP role bonus was introduced right? Because after 6.1 killer queue times went up to 10 minutes but the BP bonus already solved that problem, so it's no issue.
Yes, basically time before healing nerfs. Average kill rate was something like 53% if I remember correctly and survivor queues time were between 5-10 minutes. I refused to play waiting simulator.
I am quite happy with current queue times on both sides. Don't really care about BP bonus, even when playing with 0% queue times never get really that high for me.
Because after 6.1 killer queue times went up to 10 minutes but the BP bonus already solved that problem, so it's no issue.
Huge aspect about decreasing queue times was definitely healing nerf patch. BP is nice but it's not going to make you play something you really don't want to do.
About current balance possible questions.
Should all killers get nerfed? Hell no
Should there be specific killer changes buff/nerfs? Yes
Should all survivors get buffed? No
Should gen time decrease for higher escape rate? Hell no
Should soloQ get QoL features mostly focused on information? Definitely
At least from my experience balance SWF vs killers is quite good now.
Even when I play soloQ, killer is not the issue, teammates are.
There's a reason why every other pvp game aims for 50%, because it creates an equal challenge for BOTH SIDES. How on earth did you conclude that a 50% kill rate means the game would be too easy for survivors, when killers currently win with ease with the 60% kill rate target? Many experienced killers even have kill rates in the 70-80% range. One thing is for sure, if the game was balanced around a 50% kill rate then you wouldn't see these killer main streamers going on 1k win streaks. They would have to face the fact they aren't as skilled as they think they are in a balanced game.
Also bringing up queue times is a moot point since BP bonus was introduced. Your idea that that a 50% kr would mean long survivor queues is a moot point, because the past showed that the BP bonus solved the survivor shortage which happened after 6.1 was released.
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@Smoe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3757374#Comment_3757374
Except it does, asymmetrical applies in literally all aspects of the game itself.
Both teams are meant to vary in strength because they differ in their role numbers, Survivors are meant to be less powerful than the killer because they outnumber the killer role by 4 and vice versa.
If you want a game where both sides are equally balanced, then what you're are looking for are symmetrical games.
A 50% kill rate would mathematically mean the killer's power is equal to 4 survivors. A 60% kill rate means that 1 killer is mathematically 50% stronger than the combined power of 4 survivors, which is vastly imbalanced.
You can be in favor of a 60% kill rate, just don't try to pretend it's in any way shape or form balanced.
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@Smoe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3757356#Comment_3757356
Except you're playing an asymmetrical game, which by nature and design is not supposed to be 50% equally balanced as the killer is meant to be the power role.
"Asymetry" in DBD has always referred to the team count ratio of 1 killer to 4 survivors. It has never referred to the game balance in terms of kill-rate (i.e. 57-60% kill-rate overall). Asymetry simply means 1vs4. I repeat, "asymetrical" does NOT REFER TO THE KILL RATE.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3757356#Comment_3757356
If the devs wanted a balanced game they would aim for a 50% kill rate, not 60%.
Well, we had kill rates like this and it showed on queue times.... So clearly not best approach.
Fact is lack of killers is more noticable than lack of survivors, or at least way faster.
Killers should definitely be a power role, so equal kill rate doesn't really make sense for this game.
If you would aim for average 50% then most killers are going to be terrible to play.
When you say terrible to play all I can assume is that you're saying killers don't want an equal challenge and want to win with ease.
On the queue time topic, you are talking about BEFORE the BP role bonus was introduced right? Because after 6.1 killer queue times went up to 10 minutes but the BP bonus already solved that problem, so it's no issue.
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@Kjøttkaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3757348#Comment_3757348
1. This game isn't competitive.
2. The stats are too early to determine Vecna's power.
3. Vecna did get some nerfs.
4. Skull Merchant isn't who she was before the reworks she's now a chase orientated killer. People are still in this weird mindset from the past, just like the people who hate Germans because of WWII or the Dutch VoC enslaved black people. They are not the same anymore, they have changed.
I have a simple question for you. Do you think survivors would enjoy the game more with the current 60% kill rate target or a 50% kill rate? (the enjoyment of 80% of the playerbase)
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@Kjøttkaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3757348#Comment_3757348
1. This game isn't competitive.
2. The stats are too early to determine Vecna's power.
3. Vecna did get some nerfs.
4. Skull Merchant isn't who she was before the reworks she's now a chase orientated killer. People are still in this weird mindset from the past, just like the people who hate Germans because of WWII or the Dutch VoC enslaved black people. They are not the same anymore, they have changed.
This is the exact kind of post hoc reasoning from killer mains I was talking about in my post. If you completely ignore stats by rationalizing them to support your view then all that's left is forming an opinion based on feelings.
If the devs wanted a balanced game they would aim for a 50% kill rate, not 60%.
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@Neaxolotl said:
Those who can't stay in a match doesn't deserves to be represented in statistics, the game might as well not exist
How often do you see killers rage quit? The discrepancy between both sides says a lot, unless you're one of the killer mains who think killers win most games because they're more skilled than survivors on average and not because the game is massively unbalanced.
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@Kjøttkaker said:
I love us vs them posts. It amuses me. Keep it going!
Do you really think it's possible to deny at this point? Case in point: Lich. This new killer is sitting at a 70% kill rate, and even if you support the 60% kill rate target you must agree that 70% is MASSIVELY unbalanced. Yet the devs do nothing.
In other live pvp games if something is so unbalanced it gets hotfixed within a week, sometimes even 24 hours. It's not normal for something to stay overpowered for years like Skull Merchant for example to the point it ruins the game for one side. Anyone who cares about balance should realize the devs have give up on it, because the goal now is to sell overpowered killers in the shop. This game can not be taken seriously as a competitive game anymore. I believe this business model will eventually end up being what kills the game, because survivors are 80% of the playerbase.
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No point playing against overpowered killers with 60%+ kill rate. This is what killer mains wanted, no challenge and ez mode, so enjoy.
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Can't have any inconvenience for killers. It's a killer sided game now.
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The only way BHVR will care is if survivors start quitting en masse and killer queues go up to 10 minutes. They've made it very clear they want the game to be ez mode for killers.
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@BlightedDolphin said:
They are bugged right now. Victor isn’t meant to be able to be recalled after 10 seconds of latching on to someone, only when he is idle. Also the glow effect that tells you when you can kick him is bugged and doesn’t work all the time, making it look like you can’t kick him when actually you can.
Once that bug is fixed Twins will pretty much play the same as they did before but be less clunky. None of the counter play to them was removed, it’s just some bugs making them stronger then they actually are.
How long does it take to fix a game breaking bug, why is it still in the game weeks after release? If survivors had a bug that made them escape 70% of the time it would be hotfixed in 24 hours.
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Survivor isn't fun anymore.
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@SoGo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3710112#Comment_3710112
The game is the most balanced it's ever been, yes.
But it's so stale and repetitive that it's insane.
You mean the game is more unbalanced than it's ever been. 50% kill rate is balanced, which means the game was far, far more balanced pre-6.1.
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/412691/who-cant-stand-the-game-anymore
This is literally the most balanced the game has ever been objectively and that can’t be argued. That’s probably why you don’t like it anymore, because all the ridiculously overpowered stuff is gone. This game used to be a survivors paradise back in the day lol.
What do killer mains mean when they say the game is more balanced than ever? The definition of balanced would be a 50% kr, which means the game is more killer sided than ever.
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The game has gotten so killer sided that many survivors don't see the point. When escape through the gates doesn't seem like a realistic goal most games survivors will give up.
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@Feetusgod9 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3706248#Comment_3706248
They aren't trying to "buff" twins. the point of the update was to address their issues and things that felt boring or slow. I personally am happy with the changes that came out yesterday. they made twins stronger and smoother without removing the counter play.
Do you realize the things that made Twins feel "boring and slow" are what gave survivors a chance for counterplay. Nightlight confirms it's a buff, the kill rate on there went from 56 to 62%. Since Nightlight is consistently 3% lower than BHVR's official stats it means Twins kr is around 65% right now.