sinkra
sinkra
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@SidneysBane1996 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3840454#Comment_3840454
Not my experience in 1v4 as Killer at all, I get good Survivors.
Have you tracked your kill rate in 1v4?
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3839207#Comment_3839207
That's not exactly what we've said. We have confirmed that there's more iterations, adding in more killers each time etc. As that takes a lot of balancing and resources…we've not confirmed at all that this will be made permanent at any time.
I really hope the devs consider making 2v8 permanent because it's much more fun than 1v4.
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@SidneysBane1996 said:
I feel the opposite. It feels too easy for Survivor and like I barely have to try, it's not very much fun when I know the outcome is I'll probably escape if people do gens and there are enough Guides. Games are over for us in about 8 minutes. Boring as sin.
Would genuinely rather play 1v4, but there's a tome and also I can't get into a game as Surv in 1v4. Just not fun.
What you said is exactly how 1v4 feels for killers. Too easy and they barely have to try to win. If the kill rate in 2v8 is above 50% just like last time, it's by definition not survivor sided. It means it's more balanced than 1v4 so survivors stand a chance and killers can't win most games effortlessly like in 1v4.
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Doesn't seem survivor sided to me, the kill rate is still higher than 50%. It's just much closer to 50% than 1v4 so killer mains aren't used to playing a fair game since devs have catered to making the main game ez mode for killers for so long. It's much more balanced than 1v4 which feels good for survivors.
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@kit_mason said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/432531/we-want-2v8-to-be-permanent
No we do not. The mode makes killer queue insufferably long, even for 1v4.
Longer queues mean many people want to play duo killer because it's fun. Killer mains in 1v4 are 20% of the playerbase. Of those, let's say half like 2v8 and the other half don't like 2v8 because of longer queues. So you're saying we shouldn't have a game mode that 90% of players want to appease 10% of the playerbase.
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Killers just can't handle a mode that doesn't handhold them and make it effortless to win, now that the playing field is more even.
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I should also mention there was at least one game where a survivor dc'ed, so since devs completely ignore those games in the stat my escape rate would appear to be close to 40%, when actually it was just 12.5% in games where killers were trying to win. Now the problem with believing that 40% escape rate becomes clear.
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I don't know how anyone believes the real escape rate is 40% in solo q when you take all factors into account.
Here are my stats since yesterday.
9 games, 2 escapes
However one of those escapes the killer was afk so it doesn't count. Also there was one game I died where the killer carried me to hatch and I didn't take it because mercy escapes don't count either. So if I had taken the hatch my escape rate would be 33% and devs think everything is fine based on that stat. However my actual escape rate in games where killers are were to win was actually 12.5%. It's abysmal and not worth playing this game anymore as survivor.
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Now include games with a dc, exclude hatch escapes, exclude games where killer is afk, and solo q escape rate is probably around 20%.
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It's because the devs are balancing the game for high MMR swfs only.
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@drsoontm said:
The word you are looking for is "balance".
30% escape rate in solo q. What balance are you speaking of?
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3833027#Comment_3833027
Sorry, but I have a hard time believing this. Even professional streamers who play the game 12+ hours a day do not consistently 4K. So either you are one of the top players in the world (I mean, I guess it's possible?) or what you're claiming is not true.
It's perfectly fine for you and others to believe the game is "absurdly killer-sided" - it's a matter of opinion and clearly nobody is going to change you mind. What actually matters is the overall player count and killer-to-survivor ratio. Those are what is going to determine how the devs balance the game. No matter what the kill rate is, there will always be people coming to the forums to complain that they're not having enough fun and that the game favors the other side that they don't play.
There are streamers with 1k+ win streaks on killer. Something like that shouldn't be possible in a pvp game with MMR.
Otz is a pro who has done 30 game win streaks on every killer, yet even trying his hardest wasn't able to get a higher than 40% escape rate in solo q. Average solo q player is supposed to be happy losing 7/10 games they play, and then escaping vs an afk killer so the mmr system thinks their win rate is fine?
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This is what the devs and killer mains wanted, a game where killer is so easy. Giving one side a major advantage in a pvp game is toxic, especially when that side is a small minority of the playerbase.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3832905#Comment_3832905
Just curious - do you play killer yourself? I do, and I sure don't consider it to be "baby mode easy". Am I just bad at the game? I'd love to see some of your killer gameplay so I can learn how to play better.
I've been playing Twins with a slugging build the past few days and almost every game is a 4k. The game is absurdly killer sided right now and the devs should be ashamed of what they've done to a once great game.
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@Toystory3Monkey said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3832911#Comment_3832911
that is only true if you assume that BP incentive system works around 50/50 balance instead of 80/20.
and it would be utterly foolish to design a system that is meant to encourage players to fill up queue slots in a game requiring 4/1 player split to work around 50/50 split.
to put it simply - it only makes sense if the system gives incentive for survivors ANY TIME there's less than 80% of the current players in queue as a survivor and that is the case at almost any time in the day except evening/late night when most people are free and can play with their friends.
in reality the player split between roles is most definitely more or less equal and that's not what the game needs to fill up survivor slots at the same pace as killer's.
Survivors are 80% of the playerbase. What do you think is more enjoyable for them, a 55% kill rate or 60%?
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I seriously wonder if devs play their own game or if they're all killer mains. Like how can they play just a few games of solo Q and think it's fine? Killers don't even have to try to win unless it's against some elite swf. It's practically unplayable for solo q right now.
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@polishcow said:
I'd rather have killers have 60% killrate. Why?
I remember the worst days when I was playing survivor and had to wait 15-30 minutes for a lobby and that's not accounting for the lobby dodging and offering loading screen dodging that could increase up to an hour or more. Noone wanted to play killer for obvious reasons. I think that was the time that dbd could have died if they didn't made changes soon.
This is a false argument because those long waits were before they added a bp bonus. Right now killer has a much longer wait most of the day, in EU survivor is at 150% bp bonus most of the day. Solo Q is practically unplayable with how killer sided the game has become.
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My kill rate on Twins the past few days is like 90% using a slugging build. As a killer main I'll admit the devs need to balance the game.
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I would actually enjoy killer more if I didn't feel like I have to "go easy" most games because winning is too easy as killer. I wish the devs would stop making the game so killer sided.
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The devs wanted to make the game EZ mode for killer at the expense of 80% of the playerbase, which is mind-boggling to me from a business point of view.
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@Neaxolotl said:
Yeah, game is actually much better and fairer in comparison to past, the amount of improvement is really insane if we look at it
Is this a joke? For some reason many killer mains think 65% average kill rate is "more fair" than when it was closer to 50%, which is the definition of fair and balanced.
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@Orionbash said:
Saame. On the verge of quitting entirely until 2v8 comes back. Killers are overperforming and BHVRs response is to buff killers and nerf survivors even more. Its strange.
The devs have stated that they think the game is more fun for survivors when they die most of the time because it's a horror game, while most players instead view it like a competitive pvp game.
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@Orionbash said:
I second this. I played a 1v4 game today thinking maybe it wont be that bad. Huntress with Lethal Pursuer and proceeded to just slug. Im out till 2v8.
I agree I can't go back to 1v4 after 2v8, not only does it feel empty and slow but it also feels way too killer sided.
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@VantablackPharaoh91 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3781009#Comment_3781009
It's not. Maybe you just get very strong KIller players because you are very good, or they get very weak Survivors for some reason, or they are in the upper echelons of players. You cannot judge the game being "sided" or not by the best of the best. You need to judge by the average… and the average player both sides is pretty mediocre.
Now there's nothing wrong with BEING mediocre, being up too high or too low in skill generally feels bad anyway. It's bad to be in high MMR too much because now you might have to always hardcore sweat, whereas it's bad to be in low MMR too much because now you're literally stomping babies. You want to be in the right range for you.
And as it turns out, the game is pretty balanced at 60/40 when you're at the right range for you. If you're better than this, you're pretty damn good. But very few people outside of the babiest baby pool MMR are worse than this, and that's a good thing, because that is where all Killers and all Survivor perks work best. That IS peak DBD operating at its very best, anything other than that is an outlier we shouldn't be balancing around, and I'm confused why you seem to think BHVR doesn't wanna balance around the normal average player who is mediocre.
The average kill rate is around 65% if they also included games with a single dc. That 65% number also includes a lot killer who "go easy" on the team or let the last one escape as mercy. Even as an average player I still feel the need to often go easy when playing killer because the survivors stand no chance. So it's not inconceivable that the real average kill rate for good killers who are TRYING to win at all costs is above 70% when games with a dc are also included. The fact that so many streamers can go on these massive win streaks as killer is proof of this. Ever killer streamer has an average kill rate above 70%, and they're not prodigies or gods at gaming.
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@ad19970 said:
But killers have kind of the equivalent to hatch, which is securing a kill during end game. Often enough matches end in a 3 man escape instead of a 4 man escape because the killer can still secure a kill during end game. Which in my eyes would even out the hatch escape rates.
If a killer gets a 4k in endgame from NOED or some other perk it still feels like a victory for the killer and loss for survivors, it doesn't feel like a draw the same way hatch does. If hatch is going to be factored into the escape rate they balance around I think it should be counted as half an escape, not equivalent to completing 5 gens and escaping through the gate.
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As a survivor I'm taking a break until 2v8 comes back. 1v4 just feels too frustrating and boring in comparison.
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@Caiman said:
I was under the impression the hatch does not count towards escape rates and other statistics.
It does count in the official stats released by devs and they are balancing by including hatch escapes in the escape rate.
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It's a major flaw in game design when most of the time if there are 2 survivors left their best chance of escape is trying to out-hide the other survivor and get hatch. On the other hand 2 survivors left should not mean a free 4k for the killer.
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@Peanits said:
Lucky for you were lurk here often!
2v8 will return in the future after some iteration. We'd like to do some fine tuning and polishing before we consider the possibility making it permanent.
This is really good news. Please make it permanent with a lot more variety for both killers and survivors because even with the limited selection now it's still so much more fun than 1v4. As a survivor I can't go back to 1v4 after 2v8.
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@Paternalpark said:
I was hoping I wouldn't have to post this myself.
77% killrate is ridiculous.
Why play survivor role and win 2/10 times when u could win 8/10 times as killer?
I've spoken to killer mains who post their kill rate stats around 75% and they still claim the game isn't ridiculously killer sided.
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Good killers all have a roughly 75% kill rate and they still complain about swf.
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If there are a few gens left and 2 survivors left there's no point touching the gens because it's futile and will result in losing. Even 3 survivors with 3-4 gens left is hopeless most of the time. It's a flaw in game design and probably a big reason why most survivors are choosing to play 2v8 instead.
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It's interesting that the only people I've seen who don't want 2v8 expanded and made permanent are killer mains. Keep in mind you're a minority of the playerbase, and as a company BHVR has a duty to make the most players satisfied.
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@Seraphor said:
Why wouldn't the majority of players be playing the time limited game mode that's about to be removed?
Lights out was time limited as well, didn't make it popular.
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Another incredible factor is that this number is with the extremely limited killer selection. If they make more killers and survivor loadouts available the number of players in 2v8 would probably climb much higher.
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The situation is waaaay different now than during the free weekend. Back then my escape rate was about 50% in 2v8, now it's more like 25%.
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@danielmaster87 said:
There's a survivor shortage because people want to play killer. Maybe what you said as well, but that's the main reason. And others would rather not deal with 7 potentially bad teammates when they're already sick of dealing with 3. It's really not hard to win as survivor, they see that, and so rightfully get frustrated when they never escape.
My escape rate after 60 games in 2v8 is 35%.
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@CountOfTheFog said:
Today, I did my fitst SoloQ Killer match. The Huntress teamed up with a Sable who lead her to everyone. I knocked the Sable down but The Huntress refused to let me cage her. I was almost happy that my game crashed with dedicated server not responding, which it did.
Then, I went into SoloQ Survivor where The Huntress played alone as The Wraith just rang his bell and allowed everyone to do the generators. I can't imagine how angry that Huntress had to be after waiting so long for a match for that to happen.
Those are just my experiences today. I've seen more this week.
Have you all noticed an uptick in bad player behavior in this mode?
How does a killer stop another from caging?
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@HaunterofShadows said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3772843#Comment_3772843
And how long would it be before people had the same complaints about the new game mode, which would be arguably more stale with a tiny number of killers/classes and all players being silo-ed into one role by the killer or class that they choose?
If they added perks and all killers to 2v8 then it would become the most popular game mode by far. Many players has prefers 2v8, their fun shouldn't be sacrificed so that killer mains in 1v4 (a small minority of the playerbase) can have shorter queues.
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Killer mains got too used to the devs catering to them for years and making the game extremely killer sided. Now that 2v8 is probably going to come permanent those days are over.
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@Laluzi said:
While I'd like 2v8 to become permanent, I think it's a fantastic add to DBD and I also think it wouldn't drown out 1v4 (while there are people who prefer 2v8, plenty of people are just playing it now because it's new and time-limited, it won't have this effect on 1v4 queues forever…) I think it should go away for a bit just so devs can cogitate on whatever data they gathered and make some adjustments to the roles, killer powers, map design and mechanics, etc. This is a very successful test drive, but it's still the test drive.
If 2v8 becomes permanent the only survivors left playing 1v4 will be 4-man swfs.
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As a survivor main when 2v8 ends I'm quitting the game entirely until they bring it back again.
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Think about how selfish this take is. Tons of people are loving 2v8 and even prefer it over 1v4, but you don't want them to have that game mode because of how it affects your queue time.
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@Yggleif said:
Sabotaging is when you don't like waiting in 20 minute queues.
If you refuse to queue as survivor then you're part of the problem because you're contributing to long queues.
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@danielmaster87 said:
6-8 man swf is pretty unbeatable in this mode. But the amount of bad solos you see usually balances things out.
Maybe against nooby killers who just installed the game yesterday, so that's not a fair comparison. Have you seen any games of an 8-man SWF vs 2 high MMR elite killers on comms to make such a brazen statement?
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Because many people played survivor just because it was the only way to play with friends. Now survivor mains can kwf for the first time ever, so they're no longer queueing in 1v4.
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@Tyler3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3768805#Comment_3768805
Yeah I guess you're right, but maybe the survivors are just a little too strong. Like I said, me and my teammate struggle to get 1 sacrifice on most rounds.
You're either trolling or this is a skill issue. You struggle to get a single kill in most matches? That doesn't match up with anyone else's experience here at all. The average kill rate seems to be between 50-60%.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3769500#Comment_3769500
something similar happened with Lights Out—survivors stopped queuing for it so killer queues became long.
Except this situation is very different, because Lights Out was unpopular with survivors while 2v8 is extremely popular for both survivors and killers. There are tons of survivors queueing, it's just the ratio of killer/survivor went out of balance since so many survivor mains want to play killer with their friend now.
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2v8 is way more fun for me as survivor, because there's so much going on and you do more of everything. 1v4 feels like a boring slog in comparison and also frustrating with how much upper hand killers have. 70s gens also feels sooooo much better, I can't go back to sitting 90s on a gen.
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@Smoe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3769453#Comment_3769453
They also made it clear that there is no definitive answer right now as to whether or not it will become a permanent, as this version of 2v8 is just the first iteration, where they will continue to refine and work on it the mode based on the feedback from previous iterations for when they bring it back next time.
It's only once the mode has been iterated on enough that the big discussion on whether or not the mode will become permanent or semi-permanent will begins for them.
And how long will that take to make the decision? A few weeks, months, a year? Me and many many other players don't want to wait that long. The mode is a massive success and very popular. It shouldn't be taken away from us for no reason in 2 weeks.