ratcoffee
ratcoffee
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990690#Comment_3990690
They are 100% pushing all of this crap to live, regardless if it works or not.
God I hope so
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I have a hard time imagining that the bonus from having someone die early will be greater than the benefit of having a 4th person on the team
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
Nothing about being able to get back up guarantees you stay up. If the killer has you on the ground for 4 minutes in a match your game is over anyway.
I can see almost no benefit to removing this timer and a huge problem of this being abusable for griefing.
How could it possibly be used for griefing?
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@RepossessedTV said:
handholding for killers?
damn bro didn't know bhvr was holding my hand by the fact they literally been adding more restriction to my role for the past year
but i guess that is holding my hand and stopping me from playing the game
Removing the unhook notification is an excellent change. This is has been a simplistic basekit method that allows killers to tunnel without requiring much game sense, instead the game just tells them 'go here now'
just say u like to heal under hook and tbh im still gonna see it on the hud and come back i don't need a notification lmao
im still gonna see it on the hud and come back
are you now
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@XDgamer018 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3989697#Comment_3989697
So what are we supposed to do against sabo saves and flashlight spam without lightborn (for example on coldwind realm)
I think you fail to appreciate just how long 90 seconds is
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remembered an old tweet. not sure why
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shouldn’t be the killers fault for hooking you so fast
one of the major changes of this update was to combat killers choosing to not hook people?
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every change that benefits killers is a common sense should-have-always-been-basekit feature, but every change that benefits survivors is handholding and it is every survivor player's personal fault for it being introduced (do i even need to say /s)
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Phenomenal changes all around. Good job BHVR
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/454802/dbd-ranked
While I am not against a ranked mode per se, DbD has approximately 60k active users in the last month. 1k people is 1.6%. There are more people playing twins than there are playing on that ranked server. I don't think that necessarily indicates "high interest."
On the one hand, it's actually an average of 60k concurrent users over the last month. Since not everyone is playing 24/7, the total number of people playing the game is probably much higher, easily 10 times that number at least. And, that number's only for Steam, which is only a fraction of the total player base. I would be unsurprised if the total number of active monthly players would be over a million.
On the other hand, "only" 1k people out of that theoretical 1 million joining a ranked server doesn't mean that the other 99.9% don't want that feature. Not everyone knows about this server - until reading this post, DBDLeague was the only ranked system I knew about. Especially since that server was probably promoted only in English-speaking communities, they'd be missing out on much of the Asian and South American communities. And, there's plenty of people who probably want a ranked system but wouldn't go out of their way to join such a server. So, although 1000 people is a tiny fraction of the actual playerbase, that doesn't necessarily mean that such a number is insignificant
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People who say that the flickering door panel when Springtrap teleports makes him bad make it hard for me to take killer complaints seriously, I'm sorry.
I don't think his TP is overpowered; there are more things than just bad and OP. IMO it's strong but fair, and the flickering panel is part of what makes it fair.
Let's make some comparisons. Freddy, Demogorgon, Onryo, Dredge, and Xenomorph all have abilities that let them teleport to discrete props. Freddy has big blood fountains when he teleports, Dredge has a subtle dark mist effect (the only comparably discreet teleport effect IMO), Xeno turrets make audio effects when she's tunneling, and the other two have global audio queues by default. Only Demo has undetectable after leaving a tunnel, and that's for 5 seconds compared to Springtrap's 20.
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Definitely some very interesting opinions here, some I agree with and some I'm surprised by. Thanks for sharing, it's always so cool to see new player perspectives!
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@Crowman said:
I agree with the sentiment, but I see no reasonable way to actually enforce this since people can always edit the chatGPT or other LLM output to remove the obvious tells.
There's never been a rule or law that's been enforced with 100% accuracy. IMO "we can't guarantee we'll catch everyone" is a bad argument against a rule. Like, sometimes murderers get away with it, but murder is still illegal obviously.
Also, judging by what my teacher friends say, there are loads of students who will just copy-paste without removing the obvious signs of AI, and there the stakes of getting caught are much greater.
I have my own worries about banning GenAI. For example, I like using em-dashes more than the average person, and I like using numbered lists. Although I generally use them differently than GPT does (GPT uses them for section headers, I generally do them to enumerate a set of 1-line ideas) I'm aware my normal writing style is closer to "the GenAI style" than most. There's definitely reasons to not ban GenAI, but "it's hard to enforce" imo isn't one of them
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@Mandy said:
The expected wait time is only for 2v8 - so for the killer side specifically in this case.
Ah, thanks for the information <3
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I'm not generally one to accuse others of using AI to write posts, but I'm pretty sure the forum doesn't format em-dashes like that
I'd rather we stick to discussing opinions as we humans write them; I can't trust a large language model to accurately describe the problems with a perk
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@UnicornMedal said:
Not to be a jerk, but welcome to the Internet. None of these things are new. We shouldn't tolerate them and for the most part we don't. It's almost always unstable and/or very young people sending those sorts of messages out.
But… and even the police will tell you this… you have to know the difference between actionable threats and hollow threats. These people are just talking smack and trying to upset you. You have to learn how to be an adult and not let it affect you.
For some context, people were emailing Spooknjukes with pictures of dead, mutilated bodies saying they were planning on finding where his daughter went to school, and there were people on public forums discussing where his parents might live in order to SWAT them. There were absolutely people straying into the realm of "showing motive, capability, and premeditation"
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3985260#Comment_3985260
I wish BHVR could help but it's just an unfortunate product of how the whole thing works
If they can remove someone's twitch shirt because of something someone did outside of the game, they can permaban people who did much more heinous ######### outside of the game.
They removed Dowsey's shirts because they knew it was him, specifically, who made a video they disagreed with. They knew which account was his because they needed to in order to give him the shirts in the first place. I think it was a very poorly thought out decision to remove his shirts, but that's another story.
The people sending Spooks death threats are doing that with anonymous youtube and email accounts. They have no evidence that connects those random accounts to anyone's BHVR account.
Look, I get it. I wish we lived in a world where people who did terrible things got punished for them. But unfortunately, we don't. If the technology existed to allow BHVR to connect those youtube accounts to specific DBD players and permanently ban them, I would absolutely support them being banned. I'm telling you, as someone who works with technology and also want these sickos banned, that there's unfortunately no reliable way of doing it.
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Death threats in game are already grounds for perma-bans, but also, unfortunately there's not much the devs can do, since the people doing the threats to Spooknjukes were using other websites.
If it was in game they could, but almost everyone does Not have DBD accounts that are easily traced to youtube accounts, and the ones that do are not leaving these comments.
I wish BHVR could help but it's just an unfortunate product of how the whole thing works
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They do lose all the points. There's just a visual bug with the bots where any actions that would give BP, appear to give the bot the same amount of points.
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Oh did they reenable DC penalty? Good. Last I heard it was disabled (I had to leave a couple matches because of an unprecedented number of family members phoning me with requests and got no penalty, but that was a couple days ago)
Next time that happens, you can run to an exit gate and open it and then go AFK for a couple minutes. It's not a great solution but it forces the game to end in 2 minutes so it's better than nothing
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The duality of the DBD forums
(Sorry that happened to you mate, they really gotta stop trying to punish people from trying to go next because although it is annoying and sucks, they're not gonna be able to make a system that doesn't punish innocents)
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I'm watching a Dota 2 content creator called Zquixotix and he's said that a 55% win rate while climbing ranks is phenomenal and unrealistic, and something closer to 52% winrate is far more feasible and sustainable. Given, in Dota a lot depends on your teammates, but the point is a 78% winrate in any multiplayer game is wild and would normally indicate a top player's smurf account
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@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3983788#Comment_3983788
But do this incentives work as intended? I remember many people complaint on this forum that it was no incentives when it was needed and we actually had underbalance on one side. Or it’s too low.
I remember for some reason we had incentives for killers when ghoul chapter was released, even when their queues were under extremely high load out.
Or twd chapter. Majority played survivors, yet they didn't have anything for killers when it was needed. Few people wanted to play during chase bug and last stand/streetwise/blood rush epidemia.
They don’t remove incentives when everything is fine either
I mean, that might be true, but all the evidence points towards it not being the case. I'm willing to be wrong, but sadly it's hard to engage in good faith when it feels like you're not, and are just throwing out increasingly dubious and unevidencible claims
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@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3983772#Comment_3983772
I find both nightlight and dead by queue really subjective sources. Because data limited from both sides and sources are partially covered. Dead by Queue is monitored by one person and I didn’t find any explanation on his social media why exactly his project should be considered reliable. Even how he did this.
If we want to get to know actual numbers of survs population, we have to ask devs about it. Because queue time have different reasons to be higher.
My personal theory is that cause of higher killrate we have more killers with higher MMR than survivors. And that MMR considers killer vs one person relationship only. So it's genuinely harder to find 4 people match all requirements. English isn’t my native language to present point properly, I can just ask silly gpt to help:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/QPBCZVKVJJYN/img-0070.jpeg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/N5P4V6IMVQGV/img-0068.jpeg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/2ZKXJ8SQ7KZD/img-0069.jpeg
This just looks like DBD matches. This explanation just fit so perfectly I can’t stop thinking about it.
So survivors have wider pull for choices, while killers on top of their MMR faces with issues of high queue times and facing same teams even (one person, oecrophy, showed me this and she has really high killrate) . And being on top even not that hard for killer now.Why I’m thinking like that? When I played in sfw team where we had really wide spread of MMR once, we waited probably longest survivor queues in my life. And when I’m usually playing killer and face with unexpectedly long waiting, after matching I can be sure - my opponents won’t match my cap overall. Either too good for me, or too bad. When matches fast, It’s either night when few people play killer, or they perfectly match my skill level and we have balanced game that usually leads to tie/3k.
So, how to fix this…?
I don't know how exactly to revise the balance of the game and MMR because I’m just a player first of all, but for me decisions are to buff solo teams by info as much as possible + review the MMR criteria. Killers definitely need to have different rating , more strict and harder to achieve, while for survivors it needs to be made visible so they can see that adequate teamwork is rewarded by the game. Not hidden swf mark. Changing the meta in the form of perks and killers should happen after changing the core system.
Like since what actual my first post started, tunneling not the issue of people quitting, nor the reason of survivor shortage specifically. That's speculations and “I see this first, so it may be that main reason of every problem” mindset.
Killers tunnel because it's assymetrycal genre and we can’t change it. We can try to remove tunnelling at all, but other games faced with detrimental consequences of such move:
And that’s definitely not the reason of messed up queue times. I’m pretty sure even BHVR understand this.
The devs have said that a disproportionate number of people wanting to play role a leads to long queue times for role a and that's why they put queue incentives on role b - to get people yo switch.
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@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3983476#Comment_3983476
Many post above here from me was about that since killers still hosts lobbies in terms of MMR system, they always tends to have searches higher time.
Especially when as soon u open website u use as reliable sourse it looks like this most of the time
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/GMX9UJL9UU34/img-0110.png
And when u go to their social media, their last post doesn’t even hint on this problem
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/GQHJHCQCTVH1/img-0111.png
And survivors also can get higher queue time. And this website as unreliable as nightlight, because they also unofficial and has limited data :/
U can’t just slap queue time of completely other role in the game, ignore matchmaking system and server population to out loud point on survivors shortage. So again, provide either direct numbers or just accept that that’s u can't simply prove it
You misunderstand - unofficial data can be useful to support ideas. I just didn't understand how the data was cropped
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@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3983476#Comment_3983476
I’m just curious why u were extremely sceptical about nightllight and their “bias”, but your source is completely fine and sincerely believe it always shows a true picture of the situation
I thought it would be obvious from reading my posts but I guess I wasn't clear enough. Sure, I'll explain
I misread the post about Nightlight and thought you were saying that was a nearly exact 1:4 ratio of killers to survivors. I assumed this was the case because I know Nightlight takes information from all 5 players in their stats, and so I assumed those stats reflected every player in every game in their database. Obviously in every game, there are 4 survivors and 1 killer. If those stats were from every player in every game, it would be useless as a measure of anything because the data would be artificially cropped - the sample would intentionally be cut down in a way so that the number of players queueing from either side would be hidden and we'd only get the total number of end-game results.
Once you pointed out that the proportion of each role was not in that ratio, I changed my mind. By the time I wrote this post:
@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3982448#Comment_3982448
I had a look at the Nightlight documentation and it seems the people who upload screenshots are Not included in the stats. A disproportionate number of survivor stats would therefore mean a disproportionate of killers uploading stats from their games. Looks like Nightlight supports the idea that there are more dedicated killer players than survivors right now
… I was willing to consider Nightlight as a potentially useful source. Let me repeat that: I am willing to consider Nightlight a useful source in the discussion on player-count balance, and I was willing to consider the idea it might have proved my initial assertion wrong (I just think it doesn't prove it wrong)
Maybe they had information that other sources didn't? I did some investigating to be sure. That's when I discovered the information about how Nightlight excludes killer-uploaded games in its killer-pick-rate stats that you pulled from in your argument. Once I learned that, it started to fit with what I was saying. Whenever a killer uploads a game, the number of survivors counted increases, but the number of killers doesn't, so it actually changes the sampling to increase the proportion towards survivor. When a survivor uploads a game, it does count the killer.
I did some math, and depending on if the uploader is counted for survivor games, it looks like 30% (if they are) or 40% (if they're not) of games are uploaded by killer - much higher than the 20% you would expect if upload rates matched with the required player rates per role.
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@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3982691#Comment_3982691
So, actually we don’t have even indirect stats that can define that some side suffers from “shortage”?
Personally I always believed that we have enough people for both roles. For some really specific period of time just people prefer to stick to specific role. Like evening for survivors cause of sfws and early day for killers when it’s not sweatyThe only time when we actually don’t have enough people it’s when we have big events or something weird happens in fandom, like killer side masquarede with poor balance and farming teammates or old MFT/post TWD update
So I'm wondering what you think could possibly be causing this to happen if it's not far too many people wanting to play killer (and far too few wanting to play survivor)
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3983297#Comment_3983297
you have a lot of games that start with D
I have like 2300 total games in my library so a decent number are bound to start with a D lol
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my feedback on this change:
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@kit_mason said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/453742/ranked-mode-balrainstorm
Dead on arrival since one side mains wont want to play the role they dislike and SWF players can't play the mode at all.
I'm gonna keep it real with you, this was like 90% me a way of venting frustration at people who refuse to play both sides precisely for the reason you said here :(
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@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3982425#Comment_3982425
Can u provide exact proof that killers queue only depends on survivor numbers? And not something else?
It’s just an assumption. So better provide direct prove of survivors shortage and not indirect through killers. Survivors shortage is when ratio < 1:3
We don’t have this numbers. We don’t have direct statistic.
When players tries to upload numbers themselves, we see that ration is > 1:4
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/AL9DSFV84RT9/img-0052.jpeg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/HS0J4KZQBED7/img-0053.jpeg
No direct numbers, false assumption. Saying that we have specific side shortage requires actual stats and numbers and less subjective topic than discussion of tunneling
Killer queues can be longer by the most primitive reason: 1 person’s mmr need somehow match every of 4 / total mmr sum. And because survivors pull higher, it requires more time to sort it out
This works in every asymmetrical game, not dbd only
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/DQTPZW3NV4N9/img-0055.png
The myth about the lack of survivors comes from a false cause-and-effect relationship of long queues of killers.So again- please, provide direct numbers. Killer queues is about killer queues. It’s 4 vs 1. Matchmaking for one person will run longer because it needs match 4 people and not 1.
I had a look at the Nightlight documentation and it seems the people who upload screenshots are Not included in the stats. A disproportionate number of survivor stats would therefore mean a disproportionate of killers uploading stats from their games. Looks like Nightlight supports the idea that there are more dedicated killer players than survivors right now
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/453742/ranked-mode-balrainstorm
Just imagine the queue times for this, with around half of all survs just gone.
It shouldn't matter since people would be queuing up for the mode as a whole, not for one role or the other. You don't need 1 killer and 4 survivors at the same skill level, you just need 5 players at roughly the same skill level.
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@Astel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3982425#Comment_3982425
Can I ask where did you get it?
Dead By Queue Dot Com
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@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3982425#Comment_3982425
Can u provide exact proof that killers queue only depends on survivor numbers? And not something else?
It’s just an assumption. So better provide direct prove of survivors shortage and not indirect through killers. Survivors shortage is when ratio < 1:3
We don’t have this numbers. We don’t have direct statistic.
When players tries to upload numbers themselves, we see that ration is > 1:4
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/AL9DSFV84RT9/img-0052.jpeg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/HS0J4KZQBED7/img-0053.jpeg
No direct numbers, false assumption. Saying that we have specific side shortage requires actual stats and numbers and less subjective topic than discussion of tunneling
Killer queues can be longer by the most primitive reason: 1 person’s mmr need somehow match every of 4 / total mmr sum. And because survivors pull higher, it requires more time to sort it out
This works in every asymmetrical game, not dbd only
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/DQTPZW3NV4N9/img-0055.png
The myth about the lack of survivors comes from a false cause-and-effect relationship of long queues of killers.So again- please, provide direct numbers. Killer queues is about killer queues. It’s 4 vs 1. Matchmaking for one person will run longer because it needs match 4 people and not 1.
?????? The nightlight stats are only from complete uploaded games, of course the ratio is going to be 4:1 in those stats.
Anecdotally, the high queue time side on that website corresponds with the queue bonus being on the short-queue side, which BHVR have explicitly said goes to the role with not-enough people queueing.
Nightlight is a decent source for stats but what you're using it for is just blatantly a misuse of stats
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@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3982394#Comment_3982394
And since when we have survivors shortage, when majority of players playing this role? Even looking at night light, proportion of survivors x4 higher than of killers.
No stats proving survivors unpopular role at all. Killers queue more likely having struggles cause of MMR issues or server dependency because they are still mainly hosting lobby (at least searching completely depends from them)
the longer a queue time, the more over-demanded the role is. killer has longer queue times by far because it is a role a disproportionate number of people play
this does fluctuate throughout the day depending on the region, but queues tend to be quicker for survivor most of the day for every region
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I watch a bunch of variety streamers and they only ever play DBD in a 4 person SWF. They're at the "only have p1 on all their survivors because they didn't bother buying half the DLC, main survivor in the low teens prestige, doesn't know what the words Loop and Tile mean" level of play. I also watch streamers who have several thousand hours but SWF with viewers who only have a couple dozen hours and have to ask in chat what the current killer's power is.
These groups would never be able to get matches again if killers could dodge 4-man SWFs (despite the fact that most people would not have a hard time against them) and many of those groups couldn't play at all because they might be forced to use random, bad perk builds they're unfamiliar with to avoid perk restrictions
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yeah they really ought to fix the animation so it actually matches the hitbox through windows
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3981182#Comment_3981182
Huh, you're right.
I've been using 11m basically since it launched and you're the first person to correct me on that.
11 meters is the threshold for a survivor to be able to self-unhook before hitting second stage, assuming the killer stays at the same distance - so you're not wrong about it being an important number for the anti-facecamp system, just not quite the one you thought it was
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@oecrophy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3980938#Comment_3980938
Y he was talkin about "Not the top" .. so y. he talked about "the normal matches.." and idk, that was just 1 for me. (we were sooo super slow and chll @ surv side) but y.. Missplays on the killer side vs missplays on the survivor side + a super slow game… I mean, he has 500 hours, I have 10,000+. It’s hard for me to imagine what kind of lobbies he’s thinking of when he always talks about excluding the “top percent.” What lobbys else is he talkin about? I already told him about rounds where both sides make few to no mistakes. I don’t know.
(But I’m just trying to put myself in his shoes when he talks about it.) The best thing would be if he shared his POVs from his matches, but he doesn’t want to do that. so y. idk.
edit: And I always find it hard to buy into this whole “top percent” argument he makes. For me, that “top percent” doesn’t really exist… (its not hard to reach this point if you want to) Also “Team Eternal” he keeps bringing up (I’m EU, I’ve had people from that group in my lobbies before multiple times, i mean… idk.. ). But DBD isn’t rocket science. At some point, you’ve seen it all. Then it just becomes an arms race on both sides — who brings the strongest stuff and who puts the most pressure.
But I’m trying to get into his head and see things from his erspective. Like, I’m really trying.
I mean, once he talks about “average teammates,” it should be allowed for the killer to mess up things too… not just survivors: yes, killers: nah.
Normal smart play in this situation: deny the reset immediately and get the quick down — that’s the pressure you need right there. Not running all over the map checkinglgens or chasing a fresh hook first while still having all 4 people up, because of Firellius "dont tunnel" rule.
Misplays on the killer side vs misplays on the survivor side
The point is that the killer was making far more, and far bigger misplays than the survivor team in this video.
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@oecrophy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3980925#Comment_3980925
y..
I tried to find a typical average evening lobby experience—basically what most matches look like for the majority.
Nemi made mistakes. So did we. He asked about the "average hours" and wanted to exclude the "top percent" (which he always starts by leaving out). So I tried to find something I’d call "super average" (super slow gens + average mistakes on both sides) — no idea, most of my rounds are usually a sweaty mess on both sid.es anyway. But i tried to find 1 that’s basically how I picture a normal average round, since he suddenly wants to exclude the others.
I’ve already shared other POVs where I showed clearly: you can’t win without tunneling. But he just kind of brushed them off like they don’t matter.
The’s talking about average lobbies and average experience. Okay, fine. Here’s a super average match for you.
And I'm saying it's not average, it's clear that there's a skill imbalance and the Nemesis was outclassed
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@oecrophy said:
You're not paying attention.
It's the logical conclusion from you claiming that healing is inefficient.
In both cases, the reward is the same: The chased survivor gets extra distance. Except in the case of a heal, it doesn't require the involvement of a second survivor for an extended period of time, and it gives the on-hit sprint, which adds a lot more distance.
Given the same competence and resources, the healthy survivor will give you a longer chase than an injured survivor getting a bodyblock from a teammate. And if said bodyblock is indeed a DS/UB one, the bodyblock costs the survivors far more time, since the bodyblocker has to get into the chase and then pick themselves back up once they go down. AND it costs two perk slots, while healing costs zero.
If healing is inefficient, the DS/UB bodyblock is even more so.
In a situation where one person is hooked and the killer goes for the unhook, that unhooked survivor is usually pretty close to where the chase is happening. If they’re running Dead Hard + Unbreakable, or Conviction + Plot Twist (which is currently a better choice), and they know which way the chase is going, they can aggressively bodyblock if it makes sense.
What happens next? The killer has a few options: try to go around to avoid hitting the bodyblocking survivor, hit and down the unhooker (which is harder), or just accept the block.
If the blocker goes down, the survivor still in the chase gains a lot of distance and saves their health state. Now the killer has to decide whether to pick up the bodyblocker—who just effectively saved the chase—or slug them. It’s a lose-lose situation.
If the killer picks up the bodyblocker, Dead Hard triggers. If they slug and keep chasing the survivor far away, that survivor can trigger Unbreakable—or even get a fast rescue from a teammate. And all this happens simply because the killer didn’t tunnel immediately.
Then you will not prove that the game is unwinnable without these tactics.
Take your pick.
Except you were insistent that your arguments are NOT based on the perfect teams, or even the team Eternals! This is a full-on return to your motte-and-bailey: Make the outrageous claim that the average match is unwinnable without tunnelling, and then when asked to support that claim, you swap out the average team for an impossibly immaculate survivor team!
Need I remind you that the entire baseline argument you came up with is that we can't have anti-tunnel, anti-camp and anti-slug because it would make matches against
averageteams unwinnable?So what is this 'calculation' doing here, when it cannot brook even the slightest bit of inefficiency, to the point where there's not a single heal, not a single step out of place, not a moment of hesitation?
This level of 'efficiency' doesn't exist. You've admitted as much yourself. So why is this 'calculation' here?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOghIm7R4Mo
(Picked this match because we played super, super inefficiently and badly — plus the biggest mistake this guy made was letting the recovery heal happen and NOT tunneling right away.)
No Team Eternal. Just duo queue with my friend and me. Normal chill evenin lobby. Totally not warmed up and really trying (2-3 short rounds before he has to go to work)... from his POV, where the recording starts, my mate already been tunneled once. At that moment, he’s just getting a Shoulder of Burden unhook from the cute random fengedi.
The killer made the mistake of patrolling too long and didn’t deny the heal after the unhook—didn’t tunnel right away. So he let a heal go through... watch the HUD. We were super inefficient on the gens, our Claudette barely did anything this round (hello bold totems sometimes). I was busy with cover now and then, also not really efficient. We played really badly and really slowly. Max too. He went down once totally unnecessarily. Just removed. You know, those “short rounds before work.”
y sorry nemi, let this unhook happen with a free reset was to costy for u.
Sure, this Nemesis made mistakes—as we all do. No one played perfectly. And y, we were super, super slow. Just W-shift and drop early if it’s getting hot. I’m the main, he got confused by me once near the end, which was costly. But then maybe he could’ve gotten a kill (I would have been there to block, with my Flashbang ready if needed). So what else could Nemesis really have done?
Or, alternatively, you could
not tunnel, and avoid all the countermeasures!This complaint is basically 'anti-tunnel makes tunnelling slower'. Which is the exact point of anti-tunnel measures.
You do realize people use those perks aggressively against you, even in the moments when you’re not tunneling, right?
I ask you again: Is there anything I could've said that would've changed your mind on this?
idk.
Buddy, I've seen complaints about No Mither and Invocation: Weaving Spiders. Whether you can deal with it or not is not a requirement for something to be complained about. The reality is that most forum killers just aren't focused on these armed-to-the-teeth 4-man swiffers with rampant unhook denial, they just want to stomp lowbies harder. Which is why the focus is always on gen speeds, rather than the things that set these high skill teams apart from the rest
Those kinda accusations just put me straight into “whatever - i dont care” mode real quick. That whole “us vs. them” vibe is stuck way too deep. What’s even the point in trying if .. whatever i say.. or do.. i´m the bad killer that only wants to stomp on scrubs? Like, y, guess I’m always the bad guy who just wants to crush noobs…
on on this way:
No Mither and Invocation: Weaving Spiders are my final boss
Is there anything I could've said that would've put your conclusion out of your head?
Nah, doubt it. It is what it is
This video does not show the game is unwinnable for killer without tunneling, in general. It shows that this one particular Nemesis player is not very good in chase, judging by the fact that he took 2 minutes to down you even after you gave a free health state at the window within a few seconds of chase starting, and I counted several places where he very easily could have gotten a tentacle hit if he didn't blatantly misplay.
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@KatsuhxP said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/453453/fog-vials-block-projectile-attacks
That has to be from the last small patch now, before you could hit with hatchets for sure. I only played huntress xD
How does something like this even happen? It shouldn't even have a hitbox at all xD
If you're in the fog it's supposed to disable certain effects, maybe they use a hitbox to detect if you're in the fog and they forgot to disable projectile collisions lmao
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Wraith
- Make his Pallet Shredder add-ons partially base-kit (nerf the add-ons to compensate)
- Change an add-on so it makes an uncloak hit force survivors to drop their item
- More perk reworks with unique effects (do we really need 3 cloaked move speed add-ons and 2 cloaking speed ones?
- Bring back lightburn
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Extremely disappointing that once again the tiny but vocal minority of "I'm ok with the other side having options, as long as those options don't actually do anything" won out.
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Killer queues are long enough as it is without 75% of killers backing out when they see anything other than 4 solos.
Also i think this would make the game harder for killers in the long run as this would kill the 90% of the playerbase that's in the "play once a month with 1-3 friends that have a combined 150 hours" category.
I agree with showing it in the end game screen but showing it in the pregame causes more problems than it solves.
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Good to know, gonna bring some chase builds and then spam drop and pick up an item near a chest (without streetwise) to try to get some fun chases in
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Yeah I've previously said I thought they were too strong, but after having played against them a couple times I think they're not as oppressive as I initially thought. I think they could do with increasing the cooldown a little bit, or maybe making the cooldown not progress/progress slower while in chase or something, but not to the 2-3 minute range I initially said.
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@RoyalMeowveon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3977098#Comment_3977098
10 swaps at a chest gives a Commodious item 11000~ charges. This is not "5 minutes" unless your controller lost a fight to a grenade, and you're missing both of your hands.
And yes - the literal % increase that an Engineer Toolbox will increase your repair speed is 100%. Aka, twice the speed. You can check the wiki, you can check in game, you are outright delusional if you just decide to not believe this.
Even the WORST toolboxes for repairing will increase speed by 50% - and if you don't think permanently doing every generator 50% faster isn't completely broken, you are utterly clueless about anything to do with this game's balance.
I agree that the bug abusers are jerks and they really should be prioritizing fixing the bug so it isn't abusable, but 50% is not twice the speed, it's 1.5x the speed. Not that it matters - even getting 1.5x speed is ridiculous enough. Just think it's important to be accurate when describing things
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@Daniel_Silva04 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3976807#Comment_3976807
You just forgot the fact that killers need to play well to use their meta perks and down the survivors. Now for survivors, they don't need to do anything to use their meta perks, they just play wrong, go to the hook and can use them for free. They don't need any effort, they are being recompensated for playing badly. All survivors meta perks are like this: DS, OTR, DH, Lithe, etc.
Ridiculousness of your examples nonwithstanding, the game is balanced around the idea that it's impossible for survivors to avoid going down forever. A key part of survivor gameplay is knowing when it's OK to use map resources to prolong a chase and when it makes sense to take a down
Yet another reason why your take is poorly thought out; the idea that tunneling is an effective killer strategy so there should be nothing survivors can do to reduce its effectiveness would lead to killers not having to make any meaningful macro decisions about how to play most effectively, they'd just tunnel to win. In what way is it fair to force one side to make all sorts of macro gameplay decisions and completely eliminate them for the other side?
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@BOFH said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3976553#Comment_3976553
That's literally false, though.
According to the real stats (not the collective hallucination you are engaging with) 70% of games had at bare minimum a duo, with only 30% being completely made of 4 solo queue players.
Screenshot from an old dev stream if you don't believe me:
As you said, that's from an old dev stream, specifically it's 8 year old data from 2017 though. There's no reason to believe this would be accurate in 2025.