ratcoffee

@BorisDDAA said:
What subtle change do you propose then?

instead of giving haste it should instantly down the survivor xD

in No Lithe changes huh? Comment by ratcoffee October 27, 2025

Killers are 15% faster than survivors by default and can gain an extra 15% haste, base kit, since shortly after the game's release (bloodlust). If moving at 110% speed is handholding, what's moving at 130% speed?
Exposed, as well as killer powers that insta-down, enable deep wounds, or bypass the first health state by giving a free injure or enable broken status effect.
Undetectable
…Ok I have nothing for this one, but also who cares? it's like 10 seconds of anti-tunnel
Killers have been able to see the aura of gens since day 1, allowing them to both strategize which gens they're going to defend and to know which areas to patrol.
This is just the same as your first point (which I already disproved) but even worse
…and this is a worse version of your second point.
Killers could (and were actively trying to) win by actively avoiding progressing their win condition
The gall to complain about anti face camp in a patch where it got nerfed from its already near-useless state, lmao. Anyway AFC is designed to try to get people to actually play the game, it's as much a mechanic for handholding killers and gently guiding them to the actual gameplay as it is "handholding" survivors
IMO if you think this is handholding you've lost the plot. This is information that self-evidently should be on the shared survivor HUD to bridge the gap between solo and SWF. It's as much handholding as any of the information on the Killer HUD.
…yeah some of the pallet changes are pretty bad

you've got like one, maybe one and a half valid points out of the 11 things you've mentioned by name. many of them have analogues for the killer side that have been in the game for far longer.

what's particularly frustrating about this is that in principal I agree with you on the specific issue of those hook-spreading bonuses. i think they were fine and i'm disappointed that BHVR removed them. what's galling here is the insinuation that survivors having access to mechanics in general, many of which mirror mechanics available to killers (often mechanics that have been in the game for years prior to the introduction of the survivor analogue). it feels incredibly out of touch and one-sided - when killers have always had a mechanic, that's all well and good, but give survivors something remotely similar, and that's hand-holding? give me a break.

in Handholding comments, from the community stream Comment by ratcoffee October 27, 2025

I listen to podcasts while gaming, or if I'm playing with a streamer I have their audio open so I can hear their call outs (usually podcasts though)

in Do any of y’all have a specific band you listen to while playing Dbd? Comment by ratcoffee October 22, 2025

He already has it base kit, both when he's in and out of chase. The add-on just buffs it from the 7.5% haste base kit, to 12.5% haste total (7.5% base kit + 5% from add on)

in Coffee grounds Comment by ratcoffee October 22, 2025

@Firellius said:
Wait, so the official stats are going to exclude a ton of survivor losses? This is going to massively deflate the stats on kill rates.

Ahaha, about that…

in Any game where a survivor presses the abandon button, doesn’t count for MMR Comment by ratcoffee October 20, 2025

Can not understand this community's obsession with the idea that if a perk can be used to punish tunnel attempts, it necessarily can't have any other use case. Like what, are we gonna nerf Thrilling Tremors because it's slowdown, but also if you don't get slowdown value it still gives info? Of course not, that would be silly. Why do we rightfully see the fairness in allowing killer perks to have utility in multiple situations but we cannot allow survivor perks to have that same type of utility?

in Off The Record still nerfed Comment by ratcoffee October 7, 2025

@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010243#Comment_4010243
I am not objectively wrong. There is a reason that in comp level play they put up MASSIVE restrictions for survivors and put all the killers on the best maps for them. And why tournaments have to keep putting up all these point systems and stuff to make winning or losing less about kills/escapes. Because at its core, the game is not balanced at the highest levels.
But either way. Answer my question, do you balance around high skill players, or average skill players?

I reject the premise of your question, you do not need to choose between one or the other when both can be considered

in Pixel Bush is right. Comment by ratcoffee October 3, 2025

@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4008963#Comment_4008963
How did they removed it, you will still get 10% haste and endurence effect for 10 seconds.
Do they want to remove it in the future?

i think it was fairly obvious they were talking about the anti-tunnel ideas that were play-tested in the 9.2.0 PTB that didn't make it into live

in Im tired Comment by ratcoffee October 1, 2025

I thought it was a funny joke

in Suggestion for new Abandon condition Comment by ratcoffee October 1, 2025

At this point I play DBD once a week on Fridays in a small streamer's SWF (no voice comms, other players range from less than 100 hours to 4.5k) and this week I could only stand like 3, maybe 4 games even with a group, things are grim

in I can’t believe survivors are ok with being treated like this Comment by ratcoffee September 27, 2025

Just bring anti-tunnel to make sure you don't get chased and hit again immediately after unhook. I heard Off the Record is great.

I also just woke up from a month long nap. Now let me just take a sip of coffee and read the newest DBD patch notes.

in I would love to hear the counterplay... Comment by ratcoffee September 24, 2025

@oecrophy said:
I'd like to see you try and stop a hard tunneller from doing exactly that. Let's see how good you are at making a killer that is intent on tunnelling, stop tunnelling.
I'd like to see you try and stop a hard tunneller from doing exactly that. Let's see how good you are at making a killer that is intent on tunnelling, stop tunnelling.
nah. when I pick someone and decide to tunnel, I full commit — but survivors gotta give me that window first. why would I proxy in a (for me) dead zone with nothing there (no important gens), with no clue on unhook timing, no gen info, and zero side pressure while i proxy?? especially if they’re milking the hook timer. once I’ve rotated across the map into the zone I wanna hold, it’s not worth the efficiency to run back just to force a tunnel. so yipp : if I tunnel, I tunnel — that person ain’t getting out. do I want to tunnel every time? hell no. if they go down in smart zones and actually play macro, tunneling nukes my tempo. why would I grief my own pressure?
Let me just pull the pin here and make your whole entire argument collapse: Nothing you've talked about so far puts any distance between tunnelling and regular play. Nothing you've talked about makes tunnelling less advantageous than chasing a fresh target.
ALL of this is simply you complaining about bad survivor plays and then acting like it is that, and only that, that makes tunnelling profitable.
Not the early 1v3 and the default much shorter chase given the survivor starts with one evaporated health state, but just… 'Hookbombing bad'.
Take this, for example:
nah. tunneling puts a totally different kind of pressure on the team. said it a bunch already. as long as people still have hook states and don’t feel tunnel pressure, they laser-focus gens. it’s not about “one less health state” — plenty of survivors stay injured and keep pushing gens anyway. the real pressure is you pushing someone toward dead hook.
and when the killer isn’t tunneling and folks still have hook stages, there’s way less reason to play safe: no need to reset, no avoiding dead-zone gens — “i’ve still got a hook stage.” that’s the difference. this difference is huuge.
You know how this differs from non-tunnelling?
The 're-spot' and finding a survivor actually exist and cost time here. They don't, with tunnelling. That's all basekit and free.
you act like only cuz re-spot just vanishes when you tunnel. it doesn’t cost— you pay it in a different currency: while you hover, 2–3 survivors are doing gens, resetting, or setting up cover/bodyblocks.
choosing to tunnel (especially early, not on dead hook) is a macro loss — it drags you off your gen cluster. that’s why tunnel often isn’t worth it once survivors play smart: they go down in good zones (nothing for you there) and actually play macro.
once you’ve rotated over, running back to keep the tunnel is inefficient. a fresh chase at a hot gen usually protects more progress than hook babysitting at this moment.
You get 10 seconds of extra gen progress, but in exchange, you go down to a 1v3 in one full chase and two half-chases.
No one is taking that trade.
Again, all you are talking about are things that are even between tunnelling and non-tunnelling, failing to construe any meaningful difference between the two.
You can get as verbiose as you like, you can say 'macro' as often as you like, your argument still falls flat because the game simply doesn't work the way you have conjured it into your head.
None of what you have mentioned makes tunnelling work less than non-tunnelling.
i already explained verything.. you can tell you haven’t even put 100 hours in since 2021. can’t help you there — go get your own experience. I’ve already laid out the differences; if you don’t see them, that’s a game sense gap. i cannot help u there to get more gamsense.
and yup, tunneling gets way less attractive when people go down in bad zones for the killer — places with nothing to proxy, no hot gens to guard, no easy side pressure. if they milk the full hook timer (those extra 10s are huuuge), pull last-second (trade if needed), and layer in the right perks, you lose tempo a lot by choosing to tunnel there. that’s the difference. you lose the game.
tunnel is a tool, not an auto-win. pick it in the wrong spot and you grief your own pressure.
Tunnelling doesn't teach anyone anything. Normal play teaches them significantly more.
it does, just not the lesson you prefer. survivors learn hook-timer discipline, trade calls, bodyblock timing, off-hook routes, when to reset vs. better slam this damn , and how to play smart and not to aggressive because its a threat to get found. and how important it is to use ur time during this match.
Everything you have spoken about has been presented without a single shred of supporting evidence, it's all just been whatever you feel like.
not even about how I feel ehw?— this changes.. it’s about how survivors feel. this is a change that isn’t technically needed for balance; it’s there to reduce newbie frustration from players who don’t want to learn the game and get overwhelmed by a tunnel. (better info + better MMR would be the real fix.)
Then give better stats. Give better numbers.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/SS5WTQ9L8ES5/image.png
i don’t put much stock in these rates, but here are the latest numbers. like I said, imo they’d skew harder against survivors if people actually played macro. but this is what BHVR has published — and it’s the target they balance toward. idk.. my pov:this stats dowsnt say much and do not show what happens ingame.

You've posted a bunch of times complaining about how the forum is survivor sided and showing your downvote numbers as evidence.

I need you to understand that the reason you get downvoted is not survivor sided bias, it is because you frequently will make arguments like this - you will say kill rate is a bad metric of balance, but then use escape rate (which is directly a function of kill rate and literally no other confounding factors) as a "better" alternative. You want people to agree with you, argue better.

in Does DBD favor killers? Comment by ratcoffee September 18, 2025

@oecrophy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000001#Comment_4000001
i’m still of the opinion that the killer role—no matter the killer—should have a real chance to win vs any group if played well, independent of kill rates and without relying on major survivor mistakes. by “win” i mean a 4K. balance should let skill → 4K even vs stacked comps. if the killer role needs throw-level survivor mistakes to win, that’s not agency.
right now the game’s basically balanced so coordinated survivor groups (esp. SWF) get a big safety buffer, and killer has no realistic 4K path without major survivor mistakes. the global kill rates hide it, since soloQ inflates killer numbers while strong premades only lose when they hard-throw— which, yipp, they often do. net effect: killer agency feels optional, not systemic.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3999998#Comment_3999998
cool, but does that 60% include DCs, hook suicides, intentional throwing/memeing/playing badly, over-aggressive saves that feed the killer, and groups that refuse to accept a death and overcommit (lots of strong SWFs do this)?
is it split by solo vs SWF and this by MMR? (i mean, most a lot of swfs are not good , a lot swfs have 1-2 "not so good" player in it) if not, it’s just an average that can hide where a role lacks (or has too much) agency.
even if BHVR aim for 60/40, that aggregate doesn’t prove fairness—soloQ can prop it up while coordinated SWFs are nearly unpunishable. depending on how DCs / “let’s have our fun with this killer” moments / suicides / inefficiency are counted, the metric is noisy anyway. what matters is agency: can a well-played killer threaten a 4K vs any comp without praying for throw-tier survivor mistakes, and can solid survivors consistently convert smart macro into escapes? publish segmented stats (MMR brackets, SWF vs solo, map, region) and design to those—not a single headline number.

It doesn't include DCs (which incidentally eliminates games where someone DCs because the game is already lost)

It does include those other things you mentioned, but it also includes the games where killers are farming. Also, many of the things you mentioned were just "survivors made mistakes" and it feels wrong to say that games where players made mistakes shouldn't be included in stats.

in Does DBD favor killers? Comment by ratcoffee September 11, 2025

@oecrophy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3999933#Comment_3999933
got an official source for that?
as for asymmetry: in a 1v4, the four survivors scale with coordination and shared resources, while the killer is a single point of pressure. If both sides play clean, gens finish unless the killer has extra agency (mobility/info/slowdown) to force downs—so balance must lean killer enough to prevent stalemates. “killer-sided” here means sufficient threat to punish mistakes and actually resolve matches, not “killer should auto-win.”

I don't want to spend my lunch break tracking down the specific post it came from but BHVR have said they balance for a 60% kill rate / 40% escape rate.

in Does DBD favor killers? Comment by ratcoffee September 10, 2025

@jesterkind said:
I kind of agree, actually.
What I think this stems from is that people conflate "party game" with "casual game", when there is a difference between those two things. Party games are as described above, casual games are ones with more depth and complexity that still rewards investing time and effort but that aren't geared towards a particularly intensely competitive expereince.
DBD has, historically, always been the latter. It's never been an e-sports, ranked-mode type competitive game like Overwatch or League or CSGO, but it's also not exactly Mario Kart.

You're not wrong, but also there are plenty of terms people use "incorrectly" as colloquialism.

People will say things sarcastically and then claim they were saying it "ironically," for instance.

So although "party game" is an inaccurate descriptor, I won't fault anyone for using the term to point out that DBD is not an export ready game

in How many people have actually played a party game? Comment by ratcoffee September 10, 2025

https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/categories/spanish mi amigo

in ¿Chucky (el niño bueno), ya no puede saltar ventanas o pasar por debajo de los palés?? Comment by ratcoffee September 10, 2025

@oecrophy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/456172/the-dbd-community-has-a-win-at-all-cost-problem
Sarcasm aside, how what can we as a community to do to make Tunnelling, and by extension other unfun strategies, less of a issue? Simple really, take a load off and relax. Killers don't have to tunnel, Survivors don't have to rush generators, both sides can take in a match to goof off, chase each other, maybe get some funny clips. Matches don't need to end in 5 minutes nor do does someone have to be taken out in 2 minutes, this is a casual game with a lot of RNG and balancing so comically bad its almost intentional. Nobody has to play like this is a competitive tournament with money on the line.
maybe it’s just my mentality, but peak DBD is when both sides play for the W.
Tunneling’s a legit fun part of that. First chase? I’ve got the whole map and every resource to work with — that’s real interaction. After the tunnel’s done, the next person in line has way less to play around; map’s trimmed, pallets gone — way spicier, way more pressure. If the killer keeps target-swapping and no real chase happens, it’s mid. its not fun the moment the Kiler only tries to get people at dead zone gens with constant target switching.
I like the tunnel, I like breaking a hard tunnel, I like clean body blocks and team play. ‘Let’s not try’ matches are gray and boring.
Love when both sides sweat for the win.
but.. i dk, I’m into 1v1s too. Kinda the same as a tunnel — you just try to hold it forever and burn every resource on the map.
I don’t mind when both sides play for the win. Anything else is boring,.. no? :/

Hard disagree. I used to run chest gremlin builds years ago, and some of my most memorable games I've had were games where I got value from multiple items I found in chests in the same game. As killer i had plenty of games where I just didn't worry about hooks or kills and let survivors get as much time doing locker blinds as possible (back when that was a thing)

The game is at its best when you feel you have the liberty to be goofy, to enjoy all the mechanics the game has to offer. Current DBD feels like you have to be hypersweating the objective and fun is only something you're allowed to have if your opponent is weak enough to allow you to have fun in between rushing objectives

in The DBD Community has a "Win at all cost" problem. Comment by ratcoffee September 7, 2025

@CompetitifDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/456090/once-again-killer-wins
Calm down buddy your preferred role is still stronger.

Lol

in Once again killer wins Comment by ratcoffee September 6, 2025

@Shinkiro said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997063#Comment_3997063
I really dont get why this is so hard for people to understand honestly.

It's not that people find it "hard to understand" so much that they think strictly facecamping was not ever The Whole Problem and that proxy camping was (is) also problematic, or that Bubba standing at the top of basement stairs instead of at the bottom makes no practical difference and should still be punished. They know the changes address what they're supposed to address, the argument is that what they address isn't enough

I personally don't care because I'm at a point where I'm done with this game for a while, but that's the reasoning for the supposed gap in logic there

in 🚨 Anti-Tunneling and Anti-Slugging features got delayed 🚨 Comment by ratcoffee September 6, 2025

You're exactly right. I have about 300 hours in killer total and I demand I get to keep a strategy that lets me get winstreaks as long as the longest survivor win streak done by a SWF of 4 pro players

in We don't want your Changes PERIOD Comment by ratcoffee September 5, 2025

@Coffee2Go said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/456077/killers-crying-about-changes-once-again
You do realize the community as a whole and content creators that spend time playing survivors and been playing them for so many years have stated that the current values are not ready for live servers yet.
If this hit live servers it would be chaotic.
Let them polish it, the changes will be negligible for lower end players either way they will still feel like they wont be tunneled out and the polished changes will feel much more impact for better at higher mmr

I think OP is arguing that they could have nerfed the numbers and shipped it in the upcoming patch with those number changes

I disagree, I think more testing is required, but I don't think "ship it exactly as is" and "take an extra 1.5 months minimum to rework it" are necessarily the only options

in Killers Crying about changes once AGAIN! Comment by ratcoffee September 5, 2025

Close enough where I feel like "called it" isn't inaccurate

in Theory about slugging/tunneling changes Comment by ratcoffee September 5, 2025

@BOFH said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3996419#Comment_3996419
It's 10 additional seconds of gen time per survivor on a gen.
Since the biggest issue usually occurs with the first chase and hook, it works out to:
3 survivors on gens x 10 seconds of additional time-on-gen per survivor = 30 seconds total additional progress
This does compound over the course of the match, of course, since there are two exploitable hook stages per survivor and multiple survivors to get hooked.
This leads to the common use of tunneling to make it a 3v1 ASAP, as well as highlights the problem with "eye for an eye" types of balance patches. Specifically, it means that one side lost an eye ages ago leading to an eye being taken from both sides now.
Apparently people don't understand what "balance" means and complain about a "one-sided" change without realizing that the change is one-sided at this particular point in time precisely because it was already out-of-balance in the other direction already.

@Firellius also pointed out loud that it's in survivor's best interests to unhook ASAP most of the time because 3 survivors on gens is more progress than 2 on gens and 1 on hook, so the "30 seconds per survivor per hook states" only really applies if the killer is proxy camping and refusing to let survivors unhook, in which case good those killers should get punished

in Are people really that upset about the anti-tunnel? Comment by ratcoffee September 5, 2025

@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3996208#Comment_3996208
One other note about the hook stage vs gen time changes, if I'm remembering my patch history correctly, the hook stages were changed at the exact same time the gen repair extension happened, or within a week or two after at the worst.
You are misremembering very badly. Gens got their charge increase in 6.1, hook timers got updated in 8.2, two whole -years- later, not weeks.
As it turns out, 10 seconds extra of hook time on the first hook of the game translates into around 30 seconds of gen time, which completely negates (and then some!) any benefit the killer received from extending the generator repair time.
Except A) It's only thirty seconds if the killer puts literally zero pressure on anyone else, B) It's still in the survivors' best interests to unhook as soon as possible, as an incapacitated survivor reduces gen efficiency. and C) It was 50 seconds of extra gen time total, so even a total misplay wouldn't fully offset the gen increase, at least in one hook.
It's kind of what @ratcoffee mentioned: Any value, even if perceived in such a myopic perspective that it disregards all drawbacks, is labelled as 'unfair'.

Just adding onto your point about hook timers, it's only 20 seconds because even in the worst case, the survivor only spends 2 of their 3 hook states waiting to be unhooked as the third one causes them to be sacrificed instantly.

in Are people really that upset about the anti-tunnel? Comment by ratcoffee September 5, 2025

@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3995021#Comment_3995021
He doesn't have to "let the person finish the gen", there are options: he can slug if it's really that critical, or just hook. There's one gen left, so up until maybe a week ago when this was announced this was everyone telling us "you have to secure a kill because the game is over".
Given that he went with the hooking option and then won the game, this isn't really making your case that it's a problem. You seem upset that he didn't "win harder" here.

I think a lot of people (i mostly see killer mains doing it, but survivors might, too, I just haven't seen it) play with the mindset that "my opponent gets any value from their things, or even anything remotely adjacent to value, is a lose condition"

When anti-facecamp was first introduced, people were complaining that survivors were "getting value" from AFC in the 4-5 seconds it took to kick a nearby gen and walk away. They were only getting 10% of a bar of anti-facecamp, but they pressured BHVR into giving a delay before the meter starts filling. Now, I'm not complaining because that feature changes nothing about how functional the anticamp system is, but people genuinely seemed to think they were being punished & forgot that the system does nothing if the bar is less than 100%. I've seen people say "it's unfair the survivors got this nasty setup" while sharing their video of a 4k4 on Legion.

Nobody's going to see whether or not your opponents got the anti tunnel bonus in a game that ended in a 3k+

in Are people really that upset about the anti-tunnel? Comment by ratcoffee September 4, 2025

@SpitefulHateful said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3994613#Comment_3994613
Stroking one's ego is the only goal of multiplayer games.

Name checks out lol

Most people i know play multiplayer games to enjoy the game's gameplay, and often to enjoy the company of the people they play with and against. There are games that are set up to be egofests, but DBD is really not one of them when you compare it to Valorant, Apex, League, or whatever FOTM fighting game people are playing

in Are people really that upset about the anti-tunnel? Comment by ratcoffee September 3, 2025

@KingOfGhost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3994260#Comment_3994260
If they wanted to have better foundations, they would add concessions so that survivors would not abuse the system. Instead, they force the killer to play in a way they see fit for them.
Tell me what you can do to a survivor with 2-hook stage to stop them from repairing a gen in front of their face?

People forget the anti-slug takes 90 seconds to activate in the first place and then takes 30 seconds each subsequent time. That's a lot of time to spend on the ground doing nothing until you get one (1) more hook

in The new patch is good for the DBD and here why Comment by ratcoffee September 3, 2025

@CrossTheSholf said:
Pop basekit isn't enough. And nerfing gen control is hilarious because slower gens make it easier to not tunnel because you have more chances spread hooks

That was the logical in the changes for 6.1 and tunneling ended up increasing in that patch

in Why they nerf all gen regression perks? Comment by ratcoffee September 3, 2025

@Coffeecrashing said:
Everyone needs to remember that if there isn't enough complaints about the PTB, that it won't get changed.

IMO if people complain about the changes before we get numbers it kind of diminishes any actual legitimate complaints. If the bonus gen speed is too much but a bunch of people were complaining before they even knew the numbers it becomes easy to falsely dismiss any legitimate complaints as "these are the same people complaining before we released the numbers, clearly they're the people this change was meant to nerf and we can ignore them"

in Y'all need to remember that this is a PTB Comment by ratcoffee September 3, 2025

@OmegaXII said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993863#Comment_3993863
It doesn't necessary have to offset a dead survivor. It's the mere concept of punishing Killers for Survivor's own mistake makes it quite hard to bear with. It just doesn't feel good and justified.

Punishing a killer would be like, reducing their emblem score or their BP gain or giving them a queue penalty. Giving survivors a modest repair bonus so they're only clapped and not giga-clapped is not a punishment for the killer

in So erm.. in next patch, if Killer lose 3 Gens for just one down, the match's basically over? Comment by ratcoffee September 3, 2025

@CleanseThis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993916#Comment_3993916
Can I get an example of where the survivors are held to a point they literally cant do anything to turn it around? I can give you a killer example.

When two people are already dead, one is on hook and the last one just got knocked down, for starters. That's one of the most common use cases of the survivor surrender feature

in Killer bots coming when? Comment by ratcoffee September 3, 2025

@Foggyguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993708#Comment_3993708
Mini pain res literally defeats the purpose of it, which is to get killer away from hook.

I was gonna say many killers don't have the mobility to take full advantage of thr on-kick, but then I realized, that's what the haste is for. Good point, we'll have to see what the numbers are