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ratcoffee
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@Ohyakno said:
It would have to scale with the number of generators remaining. Sure give a +100% repair speed or whatever if someone is dead at 5 gens. Why not. But if there's 1-2 gens left and someone is dead that's not indicative of tunneling. Just the killer doing their objective.
Not necessarily. If the killer gets a kill at 3 total hook states, that's tunneling, whether it happens at 5 gens or 1 gen left. That's why I suggested tying it to number of hook states the other survivors have.
That said, i think if there's only 1 gen left when the killer gets their first kill, the survivors probably don't need the speed boost regardless, so I agree it might be smart to add a "gens left" component that decreases the bonus for every complete gen.
edit: Starts the game with 6/8/10 charges. Loses 2 charges each time a generator is completed, and 1 charge whenever another survivor is hooked. If the survivor with this perk has died by any means, all other survivors are given a bonus 10% repair speed for every remaining charge.
@Daniel_Silva04 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3976752#Comment_3976752
Tunneling is a strategy to kill survivors efficiently. So tunneling, whether you want it or not, is a killer doing his objective. And the game has no incentive for the killer not to use this strategy. This is the only game I have ever seen who punishes a player for playing well and recompensate players that plays badly.
"This is the most powerful strategy for one side. It would be unfair to give the other side tools to deal with that most powerful strategy" is a ridiculous take. That would be like arguing that killers shouldn't have any perks that punish sticking gens or make it harder, because the most powerful survivor strategy is sticking to gens. Obviously killers should have anti-gen perks, so naturally survivors should also get anti-tunnel perks.
"The game has no incentive for killers not to tunnel, and this is the only game that punishes people for [playing efficiently; i.e. tunneling]" is a blatant self contradiction.
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@Daniel_Silva04 said:
Your idea makes no sense, you are basically punishing the killer for doing his objective. And this game don't need more perks to punish tunneling, there are too many already.
the role is called killer, not tunneler. "punishing tunneling is punishing people for doing their objective" is a silly talking point. the point is to give survivors an option to make one strategy for killers that is low-risk, high-reward, and turn it into a slightly higher-risk and lower-reward strategy.
@taktak1 said:
This makes the endgame where only 1 gen is left way harder for the killer. Very often it comes to the situation like 5-7 hook stages 1 survivor dead, 1 gen remaining. This would make this situation and 3gen way easier for the survivor. Your perk not only punishes the killer for tunneling he also punishes him for killing at all.
1 Surv with your buff= 62sec for a gen (now 90sec)
2 Surv with your buff= 36sec for a gen (now 53sec)
3 Surv with your buff =29 sec for a gen (now 42sec)And thats basekit without any other perks or items.
I think its too overtuned for a perk, but i like the Idea in general. Would be an interesting gameplay mechanic.
For example 1Gen= 100%
When somebody dies the remaining teammates gen permanent bonus to repairspeed up to 25%. The Percentage is based on how far the 5 Highest Generators are.
Repairspeed= 5*(1-Percentage of the highest Gen)+5*(1-Percentage of the 2nd highest Gen)+5*(1-Percentage of the 3rd highest Gen)+5*(1-Percentage of the 4nd highest Gen)+5*(1-Percentage of the 5rd highest Gen)
So if 4 Generators are done the remaining are not started 5% bonus repairspeed.
if 4 Generators are done and one of the remaining is at 50%: 2,5% bonus repairspeed.This would make 3vs1 more winable for survivor. Especally if one dies at the very start. The important question is: Do we even want that? Or do we rather que new if one dies at 5gen left?
yeah, i'm not 100% on what the exact effect should be, but thematically it makes sense for the perk to give some help to the remaining survivors if the person who has it dies (due to the The Sacrifice level in L4D where one person has to die for the rest to progress)
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It's absolutely going to be nerfed to deal with that one specific scenario. That one use case was clearly overlooked imo - if they decided FTP Buckle Up was too strong, the perk combo in the video (which requires one less person to activate) is absolutely too strong.
Sometimes bugs slip by, so hopefully they fix the self-heal activating it soon (i assume that's a bug since i'm pretty sure it says you need to heal someone else for it to activate)
The "25% recovery progress" requirement was too low, I feel like that should have been obvious from the PTB and I'm shocked it made it to live. There's two ways I could see of fixing it (either or both would work):
- Increase the required recovery to something like 50%
- Change it to "after recovering for x seconds" so it's unaffected by recovery speed modifiers
I feel like the second one is preferable because it guarantees no other perks will affect its balance. also, since this is supposed to be anti-slug, it avoids scenarios where you're able to stand up quicker because a nearby survivor is standing by to altruistically heal you above the threshold. on the other hand, it might be harder to code a "seconds spent recovering" requirement"
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I remember I got incredibly lucky and got it like my third try - first try the last survivor was camping hatch and second try they knew to hop locker, but third try there was two clueless players and two absolute homies who let me get the achievement. IMO people should be more willing to give up the last couple kills for that achievement if it's clear they won't win
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I'd rather a dead space chapter tbh
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@Coffee2Go said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3973600#Comment_3973600
Im just saying againts a really cordinated squad if this is not viable to do and removed there is no way to get rid of their best player that takes hits and trades.
Againts those teams the only viable thing is to make it 1 v 3.
That is my scenario
That's a much better description of your scenario than the first try, and also a much better argument against OP's idea than some of the previous ones. Although there are workarounds to some of the pain points on the killer side, 4-man SWFS can absolutely abuse this theoretical system. Good stuff, we're finally on the same page about something :)
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@Coffee2Go said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3973453#Comment_3973453
I dont plan to edit anything because i wrote a scenario properly plus i have autism so stop with your insults, i dont know whats with you and always arguing and trying to win arguments.
I made my point and people saw my point and somehow you dont?
I'm not trying to win an argument, I was trying to explain why your original post doesn't really address OP's point, and then I was trying to explain why your other points continued to not address OP's point. Just like how right now, I'm trying to explain the whole point of everything I said in the thread
I brought up my own opinion not to "play that card" (whatever that means) but to let you know that I agree with you that OP's idea isn't that great, but still want to address the problems in your arguments.
I only said anything remotely adversarial once you had already started treating this as an argument and not a discussion - that is, once I thought you were "trying to win [an argument]."
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@Coffee2Go said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3973405#Comment_3973405
My state still stands, because there are matches where a survivor player is being chased then injured but then the other teammate decided to take over in being chased to distract the killer, if that said player finally gets hooked and unhooked its clearly obvious the killer wants to kill "the monster dangerous player" on team first to make the match easier for them selves which is fine by me because if i go there to do that sort of thing i know i will be mained entire match with a passion because of the waisted amount of time the killer needs to feel rewarded for my mistake that i caused my self to be hooked once or twice.
The OP basically wants to fully remove this as an optional strategy for M1 killers and or some M2 killers.
Also lets please not victimize yourself or anyone else and draw that card when you know you lost the argument and point because you did defend the OP since start so dont play that card please and be respectful because i was not saying "HEY casuals go play comp dbd like tournament players do" there is so much more to the tournament players than just punishing killer for maining one singular survivor by letting them get to almost 2nd hook state by repairing gens and then go for a gen.
What i said still stands and its not even tournament level its literally common sense and logical way of playing, why would you go unhook a survivor so fast after being hooked its screaming of wanting the killer to come back way faster and could open up possibilities of killer staying nearby planning this.
Thats just way players need to play and understand to only go for calculated saves and unhooking.
I myself know its already gg if i see players swarm around my hook and waiting for killer to leave when infact they could have repaired gens while i was hooked.
Every survivor match i play when its usually not 2 swfs or 3 swfs in my lobby i get are players that instantly swarm the hooked person and letting me do all the gens alone when they could be doing at least half a gen scattered around maps for easier repairs to be done.
your first paragraph is genuinely so poorly written it is impossible to understand what hypothetical scenario you're trying to describe, you're going to have to make extensive edits to it in order to make it at all understandable
moreover, this is a pattern with your posts here. you claim I "lost the argument" when there wasn't even an argument going on in the first place, I was explaining why your specific objections might not hold water for someone defending OP's idea. you try to address my objections to saying people need to use "the comp playstyle" without realizing that mentioning "comp playstyle" was only a way of introducing my real point - that the game has thrived for years as a mostly casual experience and that many people want to ensure that new players and more experienced casual players alike can enjoy the game without being forced to engage with optimizing strategy every game (which should apply in equal measure to killers as well, to be clear)
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@Coffee2Go said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3973146#Comment_3973146
Listen, the main issue isnt that its slugging but then again there wouldnt be an issue with slugging if majority of players who play survivor dont end up going for bad saves when they can easily fall for traps (could be many traps not just a trap from trapper).
People on my team when i play survivor dont even try to repair gens and let one person to try and go for a save on unhook when the person is nearing 2nd stage, like hell even 2 survivor can go for a outplay even when they have punished the survivor for camping the proximity area where face camp detection wont work.
This literally is not needed what the OP and you have been defending and posted
Why should ALL killers get punished for only a handful of killers taking it to extremes where they hold a grudge againts only one survivor.
Like lets be serious about this, if that person is being tunnelled why not just punish killer by letting the survivor be chased and tunnelled and then doing gens, i myself with deja vu can single handendly do 2 gens tops if the killer is tunneling a poor singular survivor.
In tournaments this is exactly how survivors play they let one person get all the attention and they do spread out gens.
The main root cause of the tunneling is there is always going to be one experienced survivor that pisses off a killer by either flash saves, looping, stunning.
Then there is other forms of tunneling which is rare and yeah that cant be stopped and that is when someone just simply dislikes the character from a survivor or their name.
Why should killers in general be punished for what is a root cause of survivors mainly, them there should be consiquences of what you seek
OP's proposal is that this system ONLY kicks in for a killer who hooked the same survivor twice in a row, without hooking anyone else, and is trying to hook them a third time, still without hooking anyone else. That isn't "ALL killers," that's just killers who engage in the thing OP wants to punish.
I disagree with OP's idea for my own reasons, and more broadly I personally think tunneling isn't the massive problem OP is claiming it to be, but saying this proposal affects all killers when it clearly doesn't feels misled at best and misleading at worst, and proposing "just play like a comp player" is so self-evidently disrespectful to the game's history as a casual experience.
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EEdit: thought this was a different thread lmao, sorry
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Edit: i was so wrong, I thought these were OP but after actually facing them they were fine, and that was before they got gutted :(
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@Zuiphrode said:
You do realize that killers are supposed to have a chance to win the game, right?
Do you genuinely believe that it's impossible to win without putting three hooks in a row on the same person
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
Idk about everyone else but I did have Doomposting on my Update Bingo Card.
That's just the "free space" spot mate
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3972475#Comment_3972475
What? Springtrap was absolutely busted on release, too, with actual invisibility.
I just find it funny that everything gets released buggy af, and all those bugs are positive lol
ah fair enough
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@TimberGoingDown said:
Of course the new survivor perk is bugged, and of course that bug makes it absolutely OP.
Of course, there would never be a bug on a killer that makes that killer OP. You as a Spirit main would know that.
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@Coffee2Go said:
You are kidding right, 90 seconds until a killer can finally mori or kill the survivor?
You do realize in 90 seconds players can do 2 gens and even if you ditch that survivor and let them be on their own they can finish a gen all on their own.
the point is to come up with a mechanic that heavily punishes tunneling someone out of the game. if your only complaint is that it does exactly what it's being designed to do that's kind of pointless
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3972259#Comment_3972259
Why would you need to purposely manipulate the matchmaking against flashlights as Wraith or maps as Trapper?
i assume because maps used to give aura reading on trapper traps and flashlights used to lightburn wraith
imo lightburn was good because both sides were perfectly capable of playing around it, so I think it's a bit ridiculous to claim wraith players needed to dodge lobbies with flashlights.
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@adam1233467 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3972261#Comment_3972261
Just like killers have to use slowdown perks to no get gen rushed, unfortunately thats how dbd works my friend.
"you can lose really quickly if you don't use any one of a huge mix of perks, many of which are available for free" is bad, but it's nowhere near as bad as "you get told you're so bad that you might get banned for trolling, for the game for not using a perk locked behind a character you need to pay real money for." comparing the two just feels massively out of touch
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"why haven't there been any attempts to rework her after the first attempt to rework her" is wild
it's also wrong, since they announced a second attempt to rework her that killer players objected strongly to, and they've already announced they plan on eventually trying to rework her in the future.
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@StudiousTome said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3941346#Comment_3941346
Yep. They still act like they weren't just hit. Like a pallet vault with you downed at the end. Just a pet peeve.
i mean if you get hit vaulting a pallet you still get to the other side
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(This is kind of a joke but also I think it would be a fun nod to the community's desire for those two killer concepts so also kind of serious)
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am i crazy for thinking the change from +50% to 1.5x was to distract us from how mediocre the reward was? make us think 1.5x was +150% or something?
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Yeah I uninstalled the moment the event was over, knew the game was gonna stop feeling fun
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@supersonic853 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3969910#Comment_3969910
Can we get any context on how you guys come to these conclusions on characters like clown or knight when they arent even near the top. Vs someone like vecna who already had a high killrate or pyramid head who was semi decent getting mostly buffs? Or characters like blight or kankei which still kinda rule the game in their current forms. Shouldnt flat buffs be the best approach for lower killers? Thanks!
I can't pretend to speak for the developers, but I can give my theories based on conversations with friends who are game devs
It's widely agreed that Pyramid Head's add-ons were almost all garbage, with the exception of a small handful that were basically required. For a killer like that, it makes the most sense to make the required add-ons partially base kit, and replace the garbage add-ons with good ones.
BHVR have said they have data showing Clown players very infrequently use their yellow bottles. They wanted to buff clown's power overall, while making the yellow bottles a more attractive option (this I'm pretty sure BHVR has confirmed). However, simply buffing the thing that they want to encourage hasn't always historically worked (for instance in 6.1, BHVR buffed a bunch of things that didn't work with tunneling, and tunneling still increased in that patch). Because of that, it seems they wanted to not only buff the yellow bottles, but nerf the pink bottles to push people away from them. Obviously, the numbers they went with were too low.
I don't know enough about the knight situation to comment on it, but I assume it's something similar to Clown.
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I went from p52 to p76 on one of my characters and got around 500 scream pies (1400 bloodweb levels, or only a little better than 1 pie every 3 webs), and I thought That was low. Dang, you got hit with a double whammy of bad luck and bad drop rates. Condolences :(
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@Deadman7600 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968474#Comment_3968474
I personally don't think its something I like. I probably didn't communicate well enough that I was purely saying banning it would be pointless because it's not something they can enforce. I like complication and memorisation in games, a lot of my favourite games are in the grand strategy genre for this exact reason. Having to memorise hook states is part of the fun of killer imo.
Oh yeah I agree banning it would be pointless for that reason
I think we were making two different points - you were talking about the practical aspects of whether or not to ban it, I was talking more about if it fits in with the spirit of the game - but it looks like we mostly agree on each of those points I think
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@SpringMyTrap said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968848#Comment_3968848
the person in question is simultaneously advocating for removal of the reward of said skill expression.
I know who I am talking to. They are being a unreasonable. If they weren't, they'd either say they have nothing against hook counter when tunnelling is getting fixed and thus it would contribute to more healthy gameplay or they wouldn't be advocating for massive tunnelling nerfs (defending upcoming anti systems and gloating about people asking for alternatives/compensations).
I would imagine that the argument is that in 99% of games tunneling is a free win that requires little-to-no game sense to execute effectively.
An anti-tunnel system would thus require killers to use game sense to know when to go for spread pressure and when to tunnel in order to maximize their potential.
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@SpringMyTrap said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968518#Comment_3968518
why would you be against trivializing game sense when you're already planning to remove main reward for this part of its application?
exactly, that's the point i'm making. it wouldn't make sense for someone to oppose trivializing game sense (or, put another way, for them to promote rewarding game sense) and also to promote removing rewards for game sense.
i would hope that by the time you start accusing people of doing that, you would start reflecting and saying "hey, maybe I'm accidentally doing a goomba fallacy here. maybe the person I'm responding to here who says they want to keep skill expression is not part of the group of people that want to remove skill expression. maybe there are two distinct groups of people here"
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968510#Comment_3968510
So, here are just some of the things you can do simply by reading pixels, exactly as OP is doing:
- Read the name of the map on load-in, and overlay a static minimap image in the corner of the layout with clock numbers (or really any map-specific image you like).
- Read every buff or debuff in the corner of your screen, as well as read every hex or notification popup on the side. Between these two alone, it could also overlay a real-time killer build so you can track exactly what the killer is running.
- Read and maintain a record of every gen's last known progress on the map, even if you don't know the location.
- Read every perk and item on your character and give exact cooldowns/charges remaining. This could trivially track which survivors still have Pain Res charges to use and just show you that info.
- Give an exact timer for the EGC.
- Give a countdown for opening the gate based on the progress bar.
- Read every BP event and give a real-time estimate for the match.
You also have the added problem that, presumably, this also tracks StB, since it would have to follow the hook and understand that hook stage was transferred to another survivor. The only way to do that is by also tracking the audio, and knowing not only that a survivor screamed, but which one by hearing their voice. If you add audio to the mix, you can also easily:
- Track killer cooldowns as survivor by listening for the M2.
- Not only track cooldowns, but identify the add-ons used in a pretty big number of cases. (You could, for example, have an overlay that starts counting down the instant you reveal Ghostie that tells you when his shroud is back up).
- With both audio and pixels, the system can narrow down the exact killer and just show you their picture within the first 30 or so seconds of the match.
- Get a much wider range of confirmed perks and addons to display. No guessing "was that brutal?" The "mod" can just detect that the animation was exactly fast enough for that addon.
I'm also going to point out that, while you seem to be basing your argument on the technical functionality here, I'm objecting from a principle standpoint. Especially if someone were to spend the time to train an LLM on the limited number of things in this game, there's almost nothing you can't do with just "reading pixels".
I'm opposed to it on principle: these are all things you as the player can do, and should be expected to do. Can you keep track of the hook stages on a piece of paper? Absolutely, and it comes at the cost of turning away from the keyboard to mark it down. Can you track these cooldowns roughly in your head? Absolutely, this is called game sense. We shouldn't be pushing to offload things like game sense and game knowledge onto a 3rd party program to keep track of for us.
This game is already not as complicated as people make it out to be sometimes, but rather than stepping up and learning, growing, or improving, we shouldn't be encouraging people to just give up and install software that does it for us. If the game is going to boil down to "who has the better 3rd party software installed", well… the same thing can be said of literal cheats or hacks.
I've just realized, if you listen to the stereo audio it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility to create a plugin that gives the angle towards a particular audio queue such as footsteps, and the approximate distance. There's no end to the clearly-cheating people can do with this capability. Absolutely, needs to be considered a fair play violation
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@SpringMyTrap said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968495#Comment_3968495
what's this, you want killers to use game sense for optimizing stages? arent we removing game sense skill expression there? why should killers be forced to keep track of stages if optimal play regarding that is going to be patched out anyways? what's this hypocrisy lol
thou shall get good at the game but thou shall not be rewarded for it
what a circus
Why would asking people to use game sense to optimize gameplay reduce the ways in which players can use game sense to optimize gameplay? I'd love to hear an explanation for that one
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
I know, I can't wait! I have my post already typed up for the instant they post anything.
I get to hit all the forums highlights:
- You can't possibly do this!
- How can you tell us how to play?
- This will kill the game!
- Good luck with your 40 minute queue times when we all quit!
- Where's my compensation buffs?
Man I'm so excited. Just waiting to hit "post" when they announce anything at all.
You forgot "BHVR are all [side A] mains and hate people who play [side B]"
Other than that good job you've distilled this forum down to its purest sodium and potassium salts
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@Deadman7600 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968453#Comment_3968453
Since it doesn't interact with code apparently, there's nothing illegal about it i don't think. Technically a killer could just do this themselves with a post it note if they really wanted so ig its not something enforceable. Itd be the same if I enlisted a friend to memorise the hook states.
My guess is its not something in the game its something watching the game and displaying what it sees on screen over the game, so it can't really be against the rules and bhvr can't really do much about it. BHVR can't control what people have on their monitor as long as it's an overlay and not in the game.
Yeah, and my point is the killer would still need to reach over and mark the post it note in order to use it to keep track of hooks. It's specifically the fact that the computer automatically does the marking for you, without any additional input, that is a problem. I believe it goes against the spirit of the rules. What you're talking about is more, "the letter of the rules as BHVR can realistically enforce them." I don't disagree that BHVR won't ban for something like that, but I still think it goes against the spirit of the game (as it works rn)
Anyway, if it worked by waiting for a keyboard input, that would be different and IMO acceptable (although I'd prefer if BHVR just gave killers the ability to see hook states by default)
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@Coffee2Go said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968453#Comment_3968453
Just saying most modern monitors such as gigabyte, aorus, msi, asus have OSD settings to make custom crosshair for you.
Its not detectable at all and monitor companies dont care if it promotes unfair advantage.
Same goes for stuff like XIM, cronus zen and such
Oh yeah I was saying I understand & agree with why crosshair apps should be allowed. You can also put some tape on your monitor to simulate a crosshair.
I was meaning to contrast crosshairs with the automated hook timer
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I'm gonna go against the grain here and say that this should probably not be allowed. It likely won't get you banned, because they don't really have any way of detecting it, but I think it goes against the spirit of the game as it is now. (I also think killers should see hook states by default so this program would become unnecessary anyway, but that's a different matter)
Reticles for ranged killers just overlay an image on the screen, they write to the screen but don't read from it. IMO that's fine - putting a generic overlay to make manually aiming ever so slightly easier can already be accomplished by using a built-in feature on many monitors, or even a piece of tape with a dot painted on it.
By contrast, reading from the screen and using that screen information to automate something that you're supposed to do with your own brain power feels like a fair play violation, as the software is far more involved in the process. If you were to use physical hardware to keep track of hook states, you would need to have a piece of paper to count hook states or a bunch of stopwatches set to 60 seconds to keep track of DS timers, but you would need to manually reach over and tick off a hook state or start a timer in order to use that hardware. This program presses that button for you, and I think that's where the big problem with this is.
How is having the computer keep track of who you hooked to avoid tunneling, or having it count to 10 or to 60 for you to facilitate it, any different from having a program that automatically hits great skill checks for you? Obviously the skill check program shouldn't be allowed, why would the hook counter/timer be different?
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I think they have a larger set of survey questions and everyone only gets some of them at random? The last time I did one of the surveys I saw people mentioning sections I never got
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It can enable slugging but IMO not to a problematic degree. I only ever see it used for slugging in contexts where slugging would normally be OK anyway, like trying to snowball with a limited time power (oni/plague/myers)
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They decided player ability shouldn't be hardware capped I guess which is pretty cool (or at least should be less hardware capped)
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@Volcz said:
I haven't noticed a difference. Really just depends on the caliber of your teammates.
If teammates are smart, they'll split up and hit gens with a priority. While also not being completely awful in chase. But usually, 1 of these 2 takes a hit. If you notice gens getting done faster, it might be because you aren't really paying attention to gens/defending them. If you are so focused on a chase and getting a down on someone, that could usually be the reason why.
Its very easy to tunnel vision a survivor out of spite w/o realizing how much time has actually gone by. You can't allow people to just sit on gens and rotate.
Yeah people tend to vastly overestimate how long they run a killer for and vastly underestimate how long a survivor runs them for. A 40 second chase will happen, the killer will say it was 20 and the survivor will say it was nearly enough time for 3 gens to pop
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@SpringMyTrap said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3966265#Comment_3966265
only if it goes both ways.
judging by the seething in this thread in response to my comments, you and a bunch of other people don't seem to think this way.
I'm confused here, friend. When I initially explained my position, I explained a scenario where killers have a counter to a "legitimate strategy" of survivors - that is, killers and status effects that make healing either impossible or entirely irrelevant.
I'm wondering, how is it you read my posts thoroughly enough to determine I'm apparently "seething," but you entirely missed the fact that yes, I do indeed believe it goes both ways?
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Since you only disagreed with my assessment on Conviction's power level, I presume you agree with me that it's actually fine to have counters to "legitimate tactics" then?
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@SpringMyTrap said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3966141#Comment_3966141
intentionally op because it's for the greater good of combating an "issue" (legitimate strategy).
look at conviction for example.
op
conviction
in any case, I for one do not think things should be uncounterable just because they are so-called "legitimate strategies."
for example, I don't think that they should remove the broken effect from Plague's infection, or the insta-down from Bubba and Billy's chainsaws, or the exposed status effect from Myers and Ghost Face and the various perks that grant exposed, just because it counters the legitimate strategy of healing in order to have two health states. even though using time to stay healthy is a legitimate strategy for survivors, that doesn't mean there should be zero ways for killers to deal with survivors choosing to stay healthy.
each side having tools to deal with the strategies the other side might use is good game design, and a perk that only activates if you get slugged and still requires someone else to pick you off the ground is IMO an extremely tame way of giving survivors a tool to deal with a particular killer strategy
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@SpringMyTrap said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3965937#Comment_3965937
and im making fun of how general survivor perk design is justified, im sorry if that hits the nerve, apparently we're only allowed to complain about bad survivor perks :)
still not quite sure what you mean here. "making fun of how general survivor perk design is justified" what exactly does that mean?
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@SpringMyTrap said:
if franklin was written like a survivor perk, it would passively make survivors lose charges on the item if they brought more than two of the same item because that's item abuse and unhealthy strategy.
What on earth is the point you're trying to make here? With OP they're clearly making fun of how some of the more recent perks have have had arbitrary and overly specific activation conditions and caveats, such as the fragile pallet perk requiring 2 completed chest actions.
I *want to engage with your complaint in good faith but I can't quite figure out what it is
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3965478#Comment_3965478
Claiming something is easy because you’re actually able to do it and claiming something is easy because you see other people do it are two totally different things.
no they're not. this is "you say global warming is real but have you personally done the experiments? checkmate" type argumentation.
if someone can point to a bunch of other people consistently winning as killer, that should prove that it's possible to consistently win as killer. requiring that everyone who makes that claim individually demonstrate their skill is silly
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3965049#Comment_3965049
It would be great have this as an official forum rule (applies to both sides). The “us vs them” stuff like this makes up a vast majority of the toxicity on the forum. All it does is make people feel like they’re doing something wrong simply because they prefer one role or the other. Keeping that stuff off the forum would make this a far more welcoming and productive place to have real discussions.
While I agree in theory (and admit i probably should tone it back a bit, as some of my recent jokes have been a little more mean-spirited than i usually try to be), in practice this becomes extremely hard to enforce. Where is the line between "us-vs-them complaining" and "rightfully pointing out an issue that benefits one side to the detriment of fun overall"? Will people feel afraid to express their legitimate opinions for fear of running afoul of the rules?
If we do look at banning us-vs-them, we should tread lightly with how we do it
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3964561#Comment_3964561
It's easy. Survivors don't respect killers as being other players.
that's a very interesting point you make. i'm sure your attitudes towards survivor complaints, which you express on these forums, would not render you a hypocrite, were they to surface.
…oh my. that's awkward.
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i approve of this only if we get a mortal kombat style "babality" animation to go along with it
edit: ok, that was a joke, but all sarcasm aside I DO think this would be perfectly fine (so long as all survivors left in the trial are given all their BP and an escape), but i think this is the exact opposite of what BHVR is aiming for with the game
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3956374#Comment_3956374
I have never, not once, in my time playing DBD, had a random survivor come flying in out of nowhere to take a hit for me unless I was on death hook getting tunneled.
I think this is maybe the context we needed. You're used to getting extremely subpar survivor teammates, so when you go against halfway decent survivors in your killer games it feels like they're superpowered, because your randoms are trash by comaprison
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They're role-playing
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That's the kind of thing that's extremely funny when you do it with friends and extremely rude bordering on should-be-reportable when done with strangers. Sorry that happened to you