ratcoffee
ratcoffee
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IMO the fact that exhaustion perks that help with looping have been nerfed (DH) or were never really viable (Smash Hit) has been a major contributing factor to people using exhaustion perks that help with prerunning or playing distance. I've started favoring Balanced, or SB for hit avoidance (rather than distance) recently and never really used DH, but undeniably the DH changes have made the prerun playstyle more prevalent.
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I know there's a profile badge for BHVR employees. someone on twitter posted a screenshot of a game where someone with that profile badge tunneled them out at the beginning of the game. Take that anecdote as you will.
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@woundcowboy said:
Killers are trying to win in a pvp game. Shocking!
There's a classic saying, "it's not the destination, it's the journey."
I'd like you to imagine why I'm bringing this up, and I'll give you a few context clues to help you figure it out:
-The OP was complaining that the experience of playing DBD has been miserable due to killer playstyles they encountered recently
-You brought up the goal those killer players had in playing that way
I don't really need a response, I just want you to think about why it is I brought that quote up, how it relates to those two things I pointed out, and maybe, why it is someone might find your response unhelpful or even actively antagonistic
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@tubalcane said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3683244#Comment_3683244
But tunneling win is not guaranteed anymore. Not unless you are an absolutely awful survivor because of all the easy mode advantages that survivors have (and more every day everytime BHVR worries about their bottom line). 2 gens finished within a one minute chase is totally unacceptable. It's time to make the game hard for survivors again.
Every time I see someone complaining about "2 gens done first chase" I get confused. I sometimes also see 2 gens get done first chase, but I find generally after my first hook the survivors are only ever able to get one, maybe two additional gens done, even when I spread hooks - I tend to get 11 hool 3ks with 1 or 2 gens left even after losing 2 fast gens. I don't really see how people can complain about the length of first chase as that's generally an outlier. What's that about?
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I could make a joke about how "you aren't prevented from queueing as survivor so the game is playable as survivor" but I don't think that's the question you're asking. Moreover, if I made a joke like that I'd be worried people might interpret it as an attempt to dismiss any complaints you have about the state of the game (balance, matchmaking, what have you).
Wow, that was a weird tangent.
...To answer the question you were actually asking, between the survivors who give up at a moment's notice, the ones that refuse to do anything, the killers who seemingly play DBD out of a love for getting a "you won" message rather than love for the mechanics of the game, or players on either side who believe the win condition is to make their opponent as miserable as possible, it certainly sometimes feels like solo queueing for a survivor game is more like pushing the button on a slot machine and your gameplay will have little impact on the outcome of the match, no matter how well you play. I've had two people give up 1st hook after getting 3 gens done, had teammates who refuse to heal or exit the gates while letting teammates die on hook despite the rescue being free if she stayed, and teammates who fail to so much as touch a gen until I'd managed to prove 2 gens with another random, get two hook rescues and heals, and was midway through what should have been a chase that lasted the remaining 3 gens. Additionally, there was a killer that downed an AFK player at 5 gens, proxy camped them and tunneled them off hook, then went around W-S teching the slugs of the remaining 3 survivors as they bled them out. All that happened in the last 5 games I played as survivor. There is certainly a lot to complain about in solo survivor queue.
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@notyarbllewe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3683771#Comment_3683771
Do you consider 5 gens done in 7 minutes as a normal game? "Genrushing" is somewhat opinionated, but when people straight up bring strong toolboxes are perks, that is clearly trying to genrush. I believe the average DbD game for killer should be ~10-15 minutes, and it generally was like that. All gens shouldn't be done in, like, 7 minutes.
I mean, this is exactly what I'm talking about. Defining gen rushing by "amount of time it takes to complete all the gens" feels super arbitrary. Why is 7 minutes to finish all gens the cutoff point (is it, or is that just an example?)
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@LeFennecFox said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3684487#Comment_3684487
Before you could realistically deny most flashlight saves with good camera placement. Now that flashlight saves are insanely easy + background player exists there is basically nothing you can do. Unless a survivor goes down right next to a wall & isn't on a pallet it's out of your hands if they get saved with that perk existing.
For sure man, I'm not sure what your post has to do with mine (maybe you meant to reply to someone else), I was just observing the wide range of complaints people have about the game and commenting on how cool it is that such a wide range exists
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It's always so interesting seeing the vast range of complaints people have about the game. Some survivors complain about being tunneled, others complain about not getting chased often enough. I've recently seen people complaining about survivors sticking on gens; by contrast this thread expresses frustration with survivors who would rather spend time off gens trying to deny hooks.
All of those complaints are super valid, btw. You're not obligated to change your opinion just because someone who's not you has a different opinion. It's also just super fascinating to see the ways in which those complaints manifest
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I made a thread about this recently as well- apparently for the reasons you said, a lot of people prefer playing him indoors. it is a popular opinion
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I've been told many times on this forum that in ideal balance, killers will never get less than 2 kills a game. I'd love to see other people's feedback on that.
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imo "gen rushing" is so much harder to define and measure than "tunneling"
tunneling is when a killer focuses on one survivor to the exclusion of other survivors. I defy anyone to come up with a definition of "gen rushing" that isn't either subjective or asking survivors to throw - for example, if you say "survivors get gens done too fast" - too fast according to who?
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@Emeal said:
The amount of times I have lost track of a survivor due to blood zones is large, Thank you for helping us Killers.
I've never had trouble tracking survivors using blood pools and scratch marks, especially since I know survivors have to be hiding in a specific area and my lunge attacks are stronger in that area. Maybe my eyes are just weird. Are people really struggling with it?
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3682426#Comment_3682426
He’s part of the reason for the state of this things. I’ve noticed Otzdarva doesn’t really talk about survivor or solo queue anymore and generally avoids playing these roles unless he’s low on content.
He just got done with a 250+ game solo queue experiment where he concluded it's basically impossible to carry solo queue games and at least half of games have serious problems caused by lack of communication; that by and large the game is absolutely miserable for solo survivors in particular. i feel of the most popular killer main content creators he's been pretty good (particularly recently) at advocating survivor QOL changes.
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disregarding the fact that there's literally a mechanic to force survivors to stop teabagging in exit gate whereas there isn't a basekit mechanic to force a killer to stop bleeding you out, what if I dislike being slugged for the bleed out and always leave as soon as I can (so long as my teammates are safe)?
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Increased queue times because people dodge you more often
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@Feneroe said:
Consider it the killer equivalent to hatch. Against the majority of the cast who are incapable of instadowning, there's still a chance at a save and four out if the rest of the survivors swarm.
I personally think camping in endgame is fine but imo it's weird to say survivors "may" still be able to rescue a survivor *if* they have all 4 alive and then compare it to hatch, which also favors killers
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I mostly get people saying gg, sometimes I get people thanking me for a fun game. sometimes I get people giving that kind of "life feedback" to their teammates. Very rarely do I get feedback like that directed at me. When I do, I will often get other survivors defending me.
Sorry to hear you so consistently get negative feedback about how survivors perceive your gameplay style
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on the flipside i've had plenty of games where i knocked down a survivor while getting stunned, pallet stuns can be Real inconsistent
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Honestly the 50% is fine, just rework it so it's 50% at all levels and lets you hold 1/2/3 charges (can still only hold or craft 1 flashbang at a time)
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@xltechno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3682896#Comment_3682896
So you're just supporting my point that the average survivor isn't very decent.
Yeah no I think you have a fundamentally incorrect definition of "decent" as it relates to skill at the game
Enjoying the game is not a fundamental requirement for being good at it. I've seen videos of people 4 outing against the old, exposed-based 3 gen Merchant and talking about how much they hated the match as they did it, even though they got the 4 out.
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@xltechno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3682893#Comment_3682893
No? You and non decent just doesn't know how to have fun with her.
Yes that's what I said just phrased different, people do not find playing against her fun; they're not capable of finding fun in playing against her
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@xltechno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3682886#Comment_3682886
By my standards, or rather by the standards of a ``really decent survivor,'' a survivor who abandons a match in the face of SM is definitely lacking in skill. Because she's a killer that's very very far from impossible to beat.
The reason they abandon the trial when they see the killer is SM is Not because they are not able to beat SM
It's because they do not enjoy playing against her, even if she's totally beatable
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@MrDardon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3681652#Comment_3681652
Quite decent. Kindred is a no brainer and the best information Perk for Survivors, Deja Vu in it's current state is also good and We'll make it makes tunneling quite hard if the KIller is semi far way as it reduces healing time by half. Streetwise is a weird one, but you surely use a good Item as well, but personally.. I'd not use it in my main build. 7.5/10
My current most used:
- Better Together (allows me to get information while doing a gen)
- Background Player (If I see no one is near the downed and picked up Survivor, I sprint towards them with immense speed.)
- We'll make it (Rushing the unhook fast and also allows me to heal the person quickly.)
- Plot Twist (Plot twisting myself denies Surge/Stbf and such and if I plot twist before getting downed anyway forces the Killer to pick me up, even in senarios where slugging might be good, otherwise I heal myself up.)
Escape rate solo: Don't really pay to much attention, but Perks don't really make you escape more often anyways.. efficient teammates do, but if I had to tell a number, it'd be around 25 %. I die more often than I escape.
Solid set of perks. Personally I would have gone with Lithe/SB instead of Background Player for that build since they have more overall utility, but if it works for you i can't criticize too hard, and my build uses BGP too.
Been going into games a lot with this build lately:
-Empathy to track injured friends
-Background player, to run into position to use...
-Saboteur, to prevent the killer from hooking the survivor
-Break Out, to run alongside and help the survivor wiggle off before the killer finds a new hook
Been working for me even in solos and I feel I'm getting better at predicting killer and teammate decisions. This has me at around 50% escape rate compared to the average of 40%. preventing hook states is strong
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I try to get 8 hook states before any sacrifices. I only win about half my games but it's a fun challenge, guarantees everyone gets a decent amount of BP, and I basically never get BM because people can tell I'm not sweating
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@ShyPirate said:
"Hit 10 survivor(s) within 30 seconds of them being revealed by an aura reading ability."
For anyone who hasn't completed this one yet, you can get two hits off the same survivor if you can catch them fast enough.
I would suggest Nowhere to Hide, Furtive Chase, and Lightborn. These give aura reading with survivors close by as opposed to something like BBQ or Territorial which require distance.
I like bringing some of the killer aura addons. Amanda's letter (the one where she gets aura reading while crouched), the purple All-Seeing wraith addon, etc. Wraith is nice because if someone brought distortion they won't recharge it while you're cloaked
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3680087#Comment_3680087
The 4 win streaks of 171 is my opinion. In my first response I pointed out I didn't agree with it but this was the rationale the people claiming it was 684 were using. The person I responded to didn't seem interested in learning their line of reasoning though and ignored the part where I said I didn't agree with it so I dropped it. If somebody doesn't understand the line of reasoning of another person you can't have a productive conversation but, as I mentioned, the person I responded to wasn't interested in learning about that.
The 1784 v 684 does have a basis for argument (albeit one I already said I don't agree with) but the fact they have a basis shows how weird (my opinion) the MMR system is. It should be measured as a 4v1 and not 4 individual 1v1s in my opinion to be more accurate. Right now, a completely mismatched survivor can carry a team to victory over a new Killer and I don't think that's fun for many survivors or the Killer. I consider myself mediocre at survivor and I even had one match similar to that. It wasn't a fun or engaging experience and I don't imagine it was any more fun for the baby Huntress. However, if you're altruistic you can help get a 3E and that means the system thinks you're a worse player? That's pretty counter intuitive.
Nobody is unironically claiming that you need to quadruple-count the survivor wins, at least as far as I've seen. It's only the "survivors are worse players" that people have said unironically. That's why I said I didn't care about the reasoning, because I don't think anyone is seriously making that point.
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@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3679494#Comment_3679494
Just testing myself, the animation aside, you do NOT get them back. Entered a match with 15 Bloody Party Streamers, someone brought an eye, I had 14 Bloody Party Streamers remaining.
oh my god that's terrible lmao hope they fix it
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3679669#Comment_3679669
I'm not arguing with you; I'm explaining to you how the MMR system works and how the people who count it as 4 individual wins have a basis to make that claim.
For Killer win streaks, 3 and 4E is a loss, 2E is a draw and 1E is a loss. That's how the system measures it and why your edited argument is wrong in the context of my post. As it's an asymmetrical game the win conditions are different for each side. From the survivor perspective for MMR there are 4 individual 1v1s and, from the Killer's perspective, there is a singular 1v4.
If you don't understand that you can't talk about the context of the MMR system until you do.
So, the Blight streak was treated as 1,947 contests but the Survivor streak was treated as 684 individual contests. That's how the MMR system works and why the people claiming it was 4 individual wins per escape have a basis to say that.
If you don't like that then you should argue for changes to how MMR works and not argue with a factual explanation of how MMR works.
i don't particularly care how the mmr system works in the context of self-imposed challenges, when the result that the "self" is counting is "games with 3+ escapes" and not "individual player escapes."
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@Hexling said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3679743#Comment_3679743
Okay so you are comparing it to a comp setting in a comp setting both people know they are in a comp game.. Its okay to admit that killer has every advantage in this game. Literally only a 2k against a cheating swf.
I think people are seeing your use of the word "cheating" and assuming you're trying to imply that the survivors who broke the streak are the only villain in this situation and nothing else can be learned. They're missing how you essentially said "the fact a 4 stack had to do something that basically qualifies as cheating in order to just tie against him says a lot about the imbalance of the game"
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3679586#Comment_3679586
I'm not saying I agree with the system but that is how BHVR's MMR system measures it. It's not a 4 vs 1 it's 4 separate 1v1s with the Killer just being the one the other 4v are against at the same time.
To be consistent with the system it would be recognized as 684 wins (171 times 4) and, unless the final match was a 4K, any survivor that escaped would still be on their win streak.
The SWF can set whatever conditions they want of course to calling it a win streak but, assuming it wasn't a 4K, a survivor who escaped through the hatch had a draw but if they escaped through the exit gate they won even if the rest of their team died.
If you see a problem with that then you understand why I say a 'Kill Escape' basis for MMR is too simplistic for actual game play. It's also why really good altruistic solos end up with low MMR Killers; they carry their teammates but die at the end after ensuring a 3 out. Their MMR should go up but BHVR's MMR system doesn't recognize that.
The win con was a 3 escape, and I was laughing about the "survivors are just worse players" bit
Also, practically speaking nobody treats killer games as a set of individual 1v1's for killer win streaks, why should they do the same for survivor team streaks? Unless you wanna argue the Blight streak in question was actually a 7788 win streak
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@sulaiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3678973#Comment_3678973
Dude, you are biased. Since there are 4 survivors that won, you have to multiply their wins by 4. Also, survivors are just bad players, so of course they dont win as much.
you joke but I've seen people say this unironically
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@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/408438/yui-with-a-deep-thought
3 escapes? Rather 4 outs since killer winstreaks like the Nurse one was also 4 kill and not 3.
Nurse streak only had to be a 4k if all the gens got done. Survivors were allowed to exit via hatch or gate (after hatch closed) if there was at least 1 gen left to complete (or rather, nurse player allowed himself the leniency to not prevent that happening)
Not sure about the Blight streak
Honestly the fact that even a 3 escape streak of that length seems infeasible, let alone the 4 escape streak you mentioned, is a massive statement. what exactly is being said in that statement is up to you to decide.
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@Caiman said:
Good thing I heard of this after wasting only one Escape Cake.
Good job BHVR, completely destroying BP offerings during the BP event.
They seem to get refunded, like how a "survivors spawn in pairs" offering gets refunded if one of your teammates brings a "all survivors spawn together" offering. At least, when I saw someone bring one into a streamer's game it played the "refunding offering" animation. Still stinks that you don't get the bonus, but you didn't lose the offering.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3679004#Comment_3679004
MMR used to be super strict, and I don’t remember any large win streaks happening at that time. In fact, the Nurse win streak streamer couldn’t get large win streaks either, and I think that person pretty much stopped streaming.
In fact, a lot of the killer streamers stopped streaming killers, and either switched to survivor, or just stopped streaming DBD. It didn’t help that some of these streamers had massive queue times, which wasn’t good for streaming content, as they risked losing streamers out of boredom.
Then BHVR purposely made MMR less strict, and purposely made the queue times less. And then the win streaks came back, and the Nurse streamer came back too.
But a lot of killers streamers never came back, or they’re still streaming a lot of survivor content. Many people made it clear, that if they can’t win most of their killer games, that they’d just rather not stream.
This is a super interesting point. I wonder how much of it is the streamers themselves saying "I'm not having fun if I'm not winning" and how much of it is the viewer base for killer content wanting to only ever see winning games - I would assume it varies greatly based on the community but the breakdown would be interesting
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@Nazzzak said:
I know the Blight winstreak was ended by a 4man who came prepared. I believe they were stream sniping and readying up at the same time as the killer until they finally got in the lobby. I know the content creator isn't happy about that. I didn't know the Nurse streak had ended though.
Yeah the nurse player announced it today and said he's gonna do a video analysis on what went wrong and the mistakes he made
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Just commenting on the perks
Unbound is a cool idea for an effect, but it's quite underwhelming. Killer vaults are 1.2 seconds longer than a fast vault. The distance covered by a survivor in that time is 4.8 meters. The extra distance given by a 10 second, 5% speed boost is 2 meters. You're still losing distance simply by choosing to vault; the only way in which this is at all useful is if you're making a build around vaulting (in which case you're losing out on a lot of other stuff) or you're in a situation where you're forced to vault regardless (incredibly situational, bordering on useless in some maps). Basically the speed boost ends up running out once you get to the next loop. I'd look at either increasing the bonus or extending the duration so you lose less distance on the vault.
Unforseen is pretty good, no notes
Undone is another cool idea for an effect, but tying it to missed skill checks makes it very weak. Against survivors who are gonna miss skill checks regularly slowdown ends up being unnecessary, and in games where you need slowdown the survivors aren't gonna be missing skill checks. The perk should get charges for all types of skill checks (maybe 2 for good ones and 1 for great ones? that way it still gets value while giving counterplay to surviors)
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I'm gonna be honest I got Mr. X confused with Oddjob from the James Bond series solely because of the hat being mentioned, and got thinking what a JB chapter would be like.
They should totally make a Mr. X skin though you're right
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you're allowed to say "killer" you don't need to censor it
as far as your feedback goes, i'm torn. on the one hand, it's very boring to play when a killer tunnels a weaker player in solo queue for an easy win. on the other hand, i love getting tunneled and recently had a game where a noed huntress chased me for 5 gens. my teammates took multiple downs to try to save me and she refused to pick them up (i guess you could call that slugging), i got 5 gens of chase time in, it was so much fun. camping, not as much fun, however.
overall, i'm not sure if i want to give up those fun banger 5 gen chases to get rid of weaker players getting tunneled out. Maybe it is the best decision, idk, i'd hate to be guaranteed killers that drop chase after 20 seconds
@RpTheHotrod said:
Out of curiosity, what's your feedback\suggestion on how to address it?
the feedback is that they feel like camping, tunneling, and slugging leads to boring unskilled play and they want the devs to do something to cut down on how prevalent it is. i felt that was pretty clear from the OP. there really isn't any reason to expect them to come up with a specific solution to that problem - the devs have even said they listen to the feedback ("this feels bad to go against" and "this feels too strong," things like that) more than they do the specific numerical/mechanical suggestions ("change this thing to give a different effect," or "nerf this strong thing by decreasing the haste effect," etc)
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we're barely halfway into march and already we have a strong contender for forum post of the year
@HamsterEnjoyer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3677535#Comment_3677535
Im glad at least one person got it
honestly i think there's a big issue on this forum of people not fully reading posts before they respond to them. otherwise i think a lot more people would understand how... hard... it truly is for you to go against the unknown
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I've had it used against me about 6 times and all of those ended in a 3-4k except the one where I was running the injure-only billy addon and intentionally going for 8 hooks 0 kills
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Nightlight has him as the 6th most played, above blight. I know their stats aren't always 100% accurate but it's hard to imagine the actual number would be too ridiculously different
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@NomiNomad said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3675567#Comment_3675567
The bug only happens with the perk Mad Grit, yeah. When he isn't using it, normal carrying survivor lunge. At least i didn't notice anything when I played him yesterday.
i think it works both with and without mad grit, the difference is that when he has mad grit he has no cooldown on his lunge attacks so he's essentially running at lunge speed (6 m/s)
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My condolences to Mandy, whose inbox must be absolutely destroyed on account of having to break the news about just how absolutely horrible this one perk is on every front.
Yes, the perk is bad, the fact it can be blocked after 2 minutes of time investment is worse, and they Need to fix it ASAP, but she doesn't deserve to be flooded in notifications over it.
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we could definitely do with more non-liscensed, asian male characters, but there is Jake
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This was a reply to a comment that I believe got deleted. They came in here with negativity, so I basically tried to spread positivity.
Since I don't want to promote negativity, I'll be deleting the original comment, which contained a quote of the negative stuff that was said, and replacing it with this disclaimer. Promote understanding and community, yall!
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Seconded. Wraith is one of my go-to killers and I have a lot of respect for survivors who could pull off lightburn, particularly with flashbangs. Nurse could absolutely do with a little additional counterplay as a top-2 killer. Having some counterplay to Artist's crows that didn't involve eating them would also be nice.
The only one I would argue against reintroducing is hag traps, but that's because you can now wipe them so there's no need to have 2 options
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Maybe your mouse is glitching and it is registering both right and left clicks when you only right click.
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@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3675790#Comment_3675790
That is not correct. At least in EU, it is pretty equal. I did some notes about the incentive, and on average it was pretty even.
i believe the hard evidence of my own eyes and the fact I was able to grab this screenshot, over you saying "no ur lying" to be perfectly honest.
not that it matters, I've already said that we shouldn't draw conclusions about whether or not survivor is unenjoyable based on the number of people currently playing the role, be it twitch stats or in-game players.
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@Depressedlegion said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3675790#Comment_3675790
I would disagree this means anything, as to be equal the game needs the currently playing player base at 80% while killer's at a low 20%. It could easily be at 70 survivor/30 killer and the bp would be on survivor at that time.
Absolutely - I even said "Now I personally wouldn't argue that this proves that the survivor experience is miserable" - by which I meant to imply "I don't think that we can use things like the number of people playing either role as an indicator of peoples' experience playing the game." I just think that twitch is worse at calculating who is playing which role, as it's a VERY limited selection of players.