ratcoffee
ratcoffee
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I'm willing to concede that the built-in totem protection with decreased cleansing/healing speed is maybe a bit much, but you're missing out on the decreased gate opening speed
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I volunteer to take the blame for any Distortion nerf because I posted my thread before Otz made his video:
@ratcoffee said:
The way it currently is, the perk encourages just flat-out hiding, and it recharges fast enough and terror radii are big enough where you can just constantly have charges against most killers in most situations. If the perk recharges in chase, it rewards strategically balancing when you take the killer's attention and when you avoid it.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3743062#Comment_3743062
I wasnt the one who made it up. A killer actually brought that into win rate argument..
i really gotta finish this video i've been working on it for like a year
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3742037#Comment_3742037
That is the single most ignorant thing I ever heard lmao. Then I guess we’ll discount the 383 escape streak a group of survivors got because that doesn’t match the stats lolololol😂
I've seen you cite the "383 survivor win streak" stat a number of times. Funny story, there's a couple reasons why that's not a good argument for the current balance of the game being fair. Let me list them. Heck, I'll even start with the one that seems to make your point stronger.
First, the guy who did that escape streak ended up doing another escape streak that got over 500+ wins. Why not use that number instead of the smaller number? I only bring this up to point out that you need to do your research better.
And I point out you need to do your research better because Second, the rules for that escape streak were actually quite interesting: the streamer would queue up in a Survive with Friends, and the win condition was him escaping. Unlike other streaks like Hens et al. requiring a 3 escape, or Tony and his SWF requiring a 4 out, the only condition for that streak to continue was him escaping. His entire team could get wiped at 4 gens left and if he got the hatch he would still keep the streak. IMO having a team goal of getting a VIP out as your win con is like a killer streak where the goal is to make sure the obsession dies - you're not playing DBD at that point, you're playing Protect the President.
To be fair to him, the scenario of a team wipe with a hatch escape rarely if ever happened, he was a quite strong player and so were his teammates, but there were a fair few 2k games, and 500+, or even 383, are not numbers indicative of the level of balance survivors have as a team against killer, because those weren't team wins.
Third, those streaks were played on a version of the game from over 4 years ago. Gens took 80 seconds, DH for Distance was a thing, DS was active in endgame, Hatch spawned midway through the game and multiple people could escape using a key. Also, MMR simply wasn't a thing. Even if you could use that number as a barometer for game balance (you can't for reason #2 above) it would at absolute best be an indicator of the game balance and matchmaking from before 2020. The game has changed so much since then it's just inaccurate to compare them IMO.
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For sure; I made a thread saying Distortion should be nerfed/reworked, but with the frequency that people run Lethal it absolutely still needs to start with at least one token to counter beginning-of-game aura reading.
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IMO nobody should expect the other player to come for them if the game's in an unwinnable 2v1 with multiple gens left, and if I'm in such a situation I will do whatever is necessary to expedite endgame and let my teammate escape
but also I will rescue any teammate that is hanging on, even if the game is unwinnable
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@UndeddJester said:
You have the same idea as me throwing this up in here xD
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3739816#Comment_3739816
I'll post a link to what I added to @ratcoffees thread, which I think is already a good Distortion change.
i'm totally gonna pretend i inspired him to make this video with my thread, despite the fact his suggestion was nothing like my own, even if the ideas work well together 😅
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It's a decent build on most killers. NtH is good, especially on teleporting killers because the aura reading stays around you. Coup is phenomenal on basically any killer that wants to do normal M1s at least sometimes. Oppression can be underwhelming because of the long cooldown, but pairing it with Surveillance (imo quite underrated) is a a smart strat
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Myers if you have him, since he's the superior exposed killer. Ghost face if not.
Also, if you have Devour Hope unlocked that's a good one to try out
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@Mr_K said:
You legit get survivors unhooking themselves based off the anti-face camping system? Is that even possible unintentionally?
There was that one guy who mind-gamed himself so hard he looped his own imagination around a hooked survivor for long enough to activate AFC. This was right after the system hit live
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It's intended. You're no longer in the game, the perks that you brought in are no longer in the game either. Everything you brought in to the game leaves when you leave (either by escape or by death) with the exception of items you leave behind (again, either by dropping them or by death)
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Hex: Haunted Ground affects 2 totems
Edit: although if one gets cleansed, the other deactivates too
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@KA149108 said:
You know you can just look for the distortion user, just because a survivor runs distortion doesn't make them invisible and untraceable in the map 😂
Yeah, tell that to the killers I go against who are too scared to chase me and can only ever find one other person because the distortion users on my solo q team keep crouching edge map whenever they hear a TR or stop seeing chase indicators on the HUD
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@codebibi said:
stop asking for a distortion nerf the perk is fine as it is. killers have a dozen aura reading perks plus add-ons that they can combine together to see the survivors aura most of the game and distortion is the only perk survivors have to protect themselves from it.
- Shadow Step
- Off the Record
- Residual Manifest
- Lockers
Also, good. People should not feel empowered to hide all game from the killer to the detriment of their teammates. Aura blocking should be highly situational and should never allow that kind of playstyle
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@Marioneo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3738253#Comment_3738253
Obviously we aint talking about that were talking about how fast 1-2 gens pop in first chase and how hopeless it is to comeback from it Devs just need to give killers a way to circumvent the dc penalty like survivors do if i can't have fun i want out same as go next survivors can
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Mikey is not c tier, he outclasses Freddy, Legion, and Nemmy at the very least, arguably the other C+ and B tiers too. if we're feeling spicy i think he's better in pubs than Doc and Clown with his best builds even if he's worse using an average build
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Can't understand the philosophy of "oh no, 4 gens got done before I got my 4k, how terrible!"
Some of my favorite, most memorable games where I had the most fun, were games where I got a 4k by faking a walk-past the gen the last injures survivor was about to complete while carrying someone, or where I transformed an 8 hook 0k into an 11 hook 3k with blood warden, or it was otherwise incredibly close around the endgame.
I for one would much rather have a lot of games where I manage the win at 4-5 gens done. A win with 1 gen complete is generally a snoozefest stomp in my experience
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The last time they did that for a survivor perk was MFT and you know how that turned out, they probably don't want a repeat
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Mmr losses are adjusted to match length and short matches lose you less MMR than long matches, presumably in part to minimize the effectiveness of exactly what you're theorizing about
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@muesliNmilk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3734517#Comment_3734517
Cus they know its a strong perk and they know how to use it in the most disgusting way possible? Body block after unhook whilst not even tunneling? i remember survivors use it to escape end game trials with it completely unfazed it was utterly ridiculous
isn't that circular reasoning though? it's stronger because survivors abuse it, and survivors abuse it because it's strong, and it's strong because survivors abuse it, etc…
also that seems like the argument is at least in part "abuse is when a perk is good" which, uh what?
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@muesliNmilk said:
Oh right i remember now survivors abuse the living ######### out if it
why is it abuse when survivors try to take advantage of the perk they chose to bring?
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@Barbarossa2020 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3733720#Comment_3733720
You can play as much as you like in kill your friends though. Oh you don't earn bp? Isn't the point to play with your friends and not farm bp? Or are you actually using a swf to farm bp?
Just because you want to play with your friends, doesn't mean i want to.
IMO any killer player that complains about survivor players "farming BP" in a SWF loses their right to complain about any survivor tactics whatsoever.
the two SWF tactics I can see as being "toxic" are distinctly antithetical to getting BP - either they're gen rushing, in which case they forgo alturism and chase BP, or they're bully squads, in which case they are only aiming to get chase BP. if someone can't understand this i genuinely think they have such little understanding of the survivor gameplay loop that they cannot accurately comment on anything to do with mechanics and balance on the survivor side; either that or they are upset at survivors getting to progress their characters in any capacity which betrays a ridiculous level of bias.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3734282#Comment_3734282
The others I could see even if I disagree, but how on earth is Deadline detrimental?
Surely the downside to that perk is that it's just not reliable?
it causes skill checks to appear in random places instead of in the center of the screen. not sure if i agree that it's strictly worse than an empty perk slot, but that is a distinct downside
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@drsoontm said:
Just in case this isn't bait …
I play survivor mostly on the PS5 and sometimes on Steam. I get the exact same speeds on both platforms.
i'm fairly certain it is NOT bait and it's just someone in the process of discovering they need a new controller because their old one is not working at intended capacity
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@PreorderBonus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3714723#Comment_3714723
Before: Getting a survivor downed at a pallet, BP user can stand in a circle around 60m of it and get the save.
After: Getting a survivor downed at a pallet, BP user can stand in a circle around 40m of it and get the save.
Ah, yes, quite significant. Now I will only have to check half of the map to find the BP user instead of three-quarters of it!Where are you getting those numbers from? By my calculations:
3 second pick up animation, 1 second blind timing
4 m/sec run speed base
12 m run distance for pallet save, 8 m for flashlight timing
12 * 150% = 18 m, 12 * 200% = 24 m distance for pallet saves when considering 150% or 200% BGP
Flashlight range: 10 m
8 * 150% + 10 = 22 m, 8 * 200% + 10 = 26 m distance for flashlights (+ needs an angle), again while considering both versions of BGP
It's wild because until seeing this I was more on the side that the perk needed changing, but by debunking your wild exaggeration I'm actually no longer all that sure.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3721312#Comment_3721312
Yes! Don't balance around low level! It's so obvious! But what the devs try to do is exactly that, and people support them with bad takes like, "Wow, you want to cater to the top 1% of players?" Yes! It's called balancing the game! Every other game does it that way!
No other multiplayer game balances exclusively for high level play. Many games consider high level play in their balance decisions, but only while also looking at other skill brackets, including making the game inviting to new players
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Singularity. He's actually ridiculous with an endgame build
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If they know where the last survivor is, fair enough.
If they have an adept or a challenge, I get it but personally I'd much rather bring a hatch offering and "risk" "having to play" another game (I say that sarcastically because if I didn't enjoy the game I wouldn't play it and if I did enjoy the game I wouldn't mind playing another round)
If neither of those things are true I just find it extremely distasteful and embarassingly thirsty. Again, I play because I love the mechanics of the game, not hecause I need to see a 4k to feel happy
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@justadreampallet said:
the reason is it’s a free second chance. The killer won chase and now you get one more chance to escape. It would be like if a survivor got a gen done but the killer was able to regress it back to 50 with one tap
I wouldn't call something that requires you to have already been hooked, requires you to get picked up again within 60 seconds of being unhooked, and requires you to avoid doing anything that advances your win condition "free". It has several restrictions and a strategic tradeoff you need to make. It only feels free because killers don't see those choices being made, only the end result
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I think people calling it a meta shake up believe that killer players will intelligently interpret these changes as a reason to try out other types of perks.
I agree with you, i think killer players are by and large going to double down on regression, even though it's been nerfed, instead of picking chase perks that more directly help the killer's actual win con.
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It's hard for me to see complaints about Deja Vu and think they're anything other than people being upset survivors have perks at all. Most of the time it doesn't even save enough time to make up for the time it takes to get to a revealed gen, it is quite simply not the op gen rush tool a select few people claim it to be. People use deja vu because it makes planning out the early game easier and to a certain extent because it makes the bar green so it feels fast, but practically it makes little difference
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@Flanders said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3715304#Comment_3715304
Hence why I main Ghostface who really needs pop and pain ress in order to not lose 4 gens instantly.
But I guess SM will be the one from now on.
I think you meant to reply to something else?
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3715207#Comment_3715207
I'm not familiar enough with those games to really comment, but based on what I do know of other games, I'm willing to bet they absolutely make changes aimed at lower skill levels too.
They absolutely do. Some of my favorite heroes in Dota have been tweaked to remove things that were too powerful in lower level play, and I'm certain I've seen balance posts from Riot talking about champion balance across different skill levels.
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Every single patch I've seen, there's been at least one person *insisting* that slugging would increase in reaction to [killer nerf or survivor buff]. That trend of slugging has always failed to materialize.
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@JeanGreyarea said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3714988#Comment_3714988
how is Scott jund biased toward survivor players?
Scott Jund tends to be a really good litmus test for the side people tend to argue in favor of.
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3714825#Comment_3714825
Sprint burst for back up when you don’t have DH like before being hooked. Or after if you miss it and the killer loses you. Since you only get it twice. I will say I’m not great at survivor lol but it’s what I figure has the best survivability
Edit: never mind, I see you already realized what I said. My bad, sorry for repeating what you already figured out
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You only get 50 seconds of value from it (2 gens stay uncompleted) and you get perma broken from it so I have to hard disagree
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If they made it 150% and 60/50/40 on the exhaustion, that would make it just a strictly worse version of sprint burst, and people would just use SB to greater effect. The 200% was far too strong, clearly, so they needed to give it something to conpensate, in order to ensure perk diversity.
For that same reasoning I wish they'd given more buffs to other perks (particularly killer chase perks) to promote perk diversity, but there's only so much a dev team can do at once so I understand why that's not what happened
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it's not impossible, I've managed it once before
that said, it's very difficult. i've only managed it once out of dozens of times seeing it
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@Starrseed said:
do you have any valid way to proof that or is that just an empty statement mend to start an us vs them
anecdotally, i scanned the first couple pages of these forums and there were:
- 3 threads complaining about survivors ragequitting, from a killer perspective
- 1 thread complaining about it, from a survivor perspective
- 1 thread complaining about it, from a more neutral perspective
- 1 thread that mentions rage quits, but only in passing in order to complain about something else
moreover, the 3 threads from the killer perspective had more posts in them and were in the front page, whereas the ones from other perspectives were on the second page, implying non-killer perspectives got less engagement. whether that engagement was agreement or disagreement is undetermined, however, I couldn't be bothered to spend more than ~5 minutes on this
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@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3710467#Comment_3710467
I'd accept this if it's activation conditions wasn't to be unhooked.
Jill's perk Resurgence and Steve's perk Second Wind activate on unhook and I'd argue they're pretty well not anti-tunnel since they won't get a chance to activate if there's any tunneling happening
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3710467#Comment_3710467
Ok then, it is too strong, and the stun should be shorter. Probably around 3 seconds….
It was literally nerfed BECAUSE of these problems, then they buffed it right back to where it was. And big surprise, it is overpowered again. What needs to be done is that anti-tunnel needs to be made some kind of basekit mechanic that the game is balanced around, and then DS reworked into an entirely different perk.
It was nerfed because it was overused, and it was overused because it was one of the precious few survivor perks that was fun to use while providing tangible benefits.
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You know what, I'm gonna say it.
DS isn't an "anti-tunnel" perk. It's an aggressive killer delaying perk that happens to also have anti-tunnel qualities. And that's a good thing.
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@squbax said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3709622#Comment_3709622
Because on some killers thats the case, for example if you get curved by a blight/oni or flicked by a wesker that is the killers skill making them have the advantage you are correct in that assumption.
But if you lose to a trapper or get outplayed at a loop by a sadako thats 100% on the survivor making a mistake. Yes I overexagerated not only nurse and blight let killers show skill, many other killers do, but if you show me someone going down to an m1 killer and not wasting at least 1 minute of their time I will say that that survivors is new/not good at the game.
Making occasional mistakes is inevitable for everyone and doesn't mean the survivors are terrible at the game. It's one thing to correctly observe that a m1 killer has a hard time getting the first down, it's another thing entirely to extrapolate about 80% of the player base being doodoo at the game when some players consistently still perform well
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@squbax said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3708766#Comment_3708766
So you are not playing nurse nor blight, that leaves the other suggestion open, survivors are throwing or merely really bad at the game. First down and no gens means someone messed up horribly, as the map still has all resources and strong loops are avaliable.
why is it that whenever anyone does well as killer, no matter how consistently, someone pops up to say "ah well i guess that means that every single survivor player is categorically terrible at the game"
instead of recognizing that the player in question or maybe killers in general have more tools at their disposal than they initially thought
like I would think that occam's razor would dictate that the most sensible reason someone is able to consistently win as killer is because they are good at killer
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Learn to look around as you run from place to place, not just at where you are running
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@Shroompy said:
ngl chief, i dont get it
menus: the game loop is mostly flowchart and planned decision making
parkour: the game loop is mostly twitchy action and adaptation to changing surroundings
Or, menus = macro and parkour = micro, I guess I'm asking which is more important in your opinion
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I've played plenty of games where I lost 2 or 3 gens by the time I got my first hook and ended up winning, often without No Way Out ever activating, so I think gen speeds are fine tbh
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I can't at all agree with that because the game doesn't reward being good, at least to the degree that other games do.
In League, there's LP that determine ranked ladder placement, per-character mastery points you can show off in game, cosmetic rewards for particularly strong performances, and a feature that tracks specific per-character actions.Those rewards don't exist in DBD - that doesn't make DBD better or worse than League, just a different game with a different design philosophy.
Because the game doesn't really reward skill in that way, a lot of players will simply say "why bother playing the game, if I have to sweat and practice a lot in order to even get a chance to play, and I don't even get all that much of a reward. I'll either play a different casual game, or a competetive game with more rewards instead"
Also, your argument seems to be predicated on the idea that people get tunneled because they are bad at chase. The logical conclusion therefore would be that getting good at chase would mean you wouldn't get tunneled, but that means that you would spend a bunch of time learning to play the game in order to make sure you don't get to use the skills that you developed - in fact punishing players for taking the time to get good by not letting them express the skills they learned.
IMO tunneling is a net neutral for the game - I enjoy getting tunneled but I know some people don't. There are people who claim it's some massive problem and I disagree with that too. Claiming that tunneling is "good" for the game imo just feels incorrect. It feels like you're trying to justify your playstyle by framing yourself as a hero for playing like that, rather than just recognizing it's a game and you can play how you want.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3706650#Comment_3706650
They aren't going to stop regardless, they are going to bully the killer until they ultimately quit the game.
Let me ask you a question
Should DBD be balanced around average level players, or high level players?
I've said this before to you and I'll say it again, you don't need to choose one or the other, balance decisions can be made with both groups in mind