radiantHero23
radiantHero23
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/436-developer-update-all-things-wicked-ptb
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/UY4A818841E1/image.png
@radiantHero23 @Nun_So_Vile @AbsolutGrndZer0 @Vanishlord @Atsuka_Anarchy
Well... that was not expected...
So we still lose the Jigsaw box auras... but we haven't got the extra 30s on the timer...
It is curious that screams have been left unchecked, I was really expecting that to get nerf batted... I suppose your average Pig can't really get head pops just by patrolling jigsaw boxes, though nothing to stop a Pig following someone off hook and doing it (though that is throwing the game), but the more viable strategy of using screams to do it remains unchecked.... I guess BHVR want screams to remain a thing I suppose.
I feel like there is gonna be backlash for this, so I suppose we all should stick to our same rhetoric really... but overall, I'll accept this line up of changes.
EDIT: Just for interest... I have added your names as part of an edit as I forgot originally... do you guys get a notification when I do this? Or not?
I didnt get a notification, but my Pig senses tickled.
I appreciate that they went back on one of the nerfs. But i stand by my point, that they should have taken their time to erase the screaming-playstyle instead of punishing all Pig players.
"pushing her over the top" just made me chuckle. They agreed, that a survivor literally cant do anything against a Nurse that is on point, but little ol piggy with her smol dash is where they draw the line?
Overall, im disappointed, that they didnt do their work to make a healthy change, but im glad that they didnt just push it live.
How do you guys feel about it?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3668194#Comment_3668194
During the loading screen.
So you would enable the option to change the build during the loading screen?
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666976#Comment_3666976
How could solos even tell others their builds in the lobby? Most of the playerbase cannot even see or use the chat box.
We really need the ability to view survs perks & loadouts somewhere.
Absolutely agree! However, if the lobby where to be removed, where would survivors be able to see the build?
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666976#Comment_3666976
What if removing lobbies is the best way of solidifying the matchmaking system, and mitigating the backfilling problem?
One problem solved, another takes its place.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3667580#Comment_3667580
Except the proper response to SM is to functionally delete her.
Her power is a jumbled mess of ideas that needs to be scrapped and re-approached. They keep trying to make stationary status effect zones work and they just DO NOT.
Back to the drawing board to think up a power that is both strong (because SM is just like Old Legion, strong but weak) and decent to play against. I'm not asking for a Demogorgon or Billy level of fun to play against; I'd take Wesker or Artist.
So what would you suggest on how to change her?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666976#Comment_3666976
Just for the love of everything holy add a screen showing the Survivors each other's builds.
Agree!
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666982#Comment_3666982
I literally didn't say anything about not being able to play Killers.
You did not. This was about the general mindset of "I don't like x killer, I don't want them in my dbd. Killer has to go and until then, I will give up against them."
Instead of fueling the hate train, we should give constructive feedback.
"I don't want to play against this like anyone else" or "just delete her" is not constructive feedback.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666512#Comment_3666512
You can't dodge SM lobbies???
You can't see the Killer prior to the game. If you know of a way to do that though....nah, I couldn't back fill some poor random into that
sheeesh....
EVERYONE HAS THE RIGHT TO PLAY WHAT THEY WANT. IF YOU LOAD INTO A LOBBY OF DBD, YOU DO TAKE THE RISK OF DACING EVERY KILLER. IF YOU DONT LIKE OVER 70% OF THE KILLER CAST, MAYBE THIS GAME OVERALL IS NOT FOR YOU.
Im gonna copy this now and every time someone says: "i dont like x killer, they ruin my experience"
The killer is part of DBD.
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@Pulsar said:
I am still in favor or just removing the lobby and names during a match.
Removing lobby is not a good idea.
I like to tell people what i run. Soloq is bad. Why nerf it even more?
Names during match? Those can go.
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Its fine.
Good times to be a Pig main....
Hopefully...
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@JeanGreyarea said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666670#Comment_3666670
Adrenaline windows and distortion. Perks that dont need nerfs
Adrenaline needs one nerf.
- It should not wake you up against Freddy
Otherwise, im fine with it. But we will see how BHVR will change it down the line.
Windows is a weird perk in that it helps to bridge the gap between soloq and swf, but also encourages a really boring and unhealthy playstyle. Would love to see it changed, without it losing its actual power.
Distortion is fine, but also supports unhealthy gameplay.
All 3 should be changed in some way if you ask me.
But thats just 3 perks. There are also a lot of killer perks that should change. Deadlock is way too strong for literally 0 input from the killer. Grim embrace is healthy on its own, but should not stack with dms.
Both sides have problematic perks. Thats how it has always been, thats how it will propably ever be.
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@JeanGreyarea said:
I wish people would stop asking for survivor perks to be nerfed
Which ones are it this time?
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Survivor is alright right now.
Sure, there are some things that are straight up too strong on killer (Grim Embrace, dms, Deadlock) but that's not every game by far and will very likely change in the future.
SoloQ can be pain, but that's literally a player problem most of the time. You can't fix players.
The role has strong options for items, maps, addons and playstyles available.
Overall, survivor is in a pretty decent spot right now.
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@sinkra said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666145#Comment_3666145
The anti-camp mechanic is a joke because the bar fills so slowly and the radius is small. It actually trains killers into more effective campers because now they proxy camp. The devs just can't bring themselves to nerf killers in any way because streamers will complain if they can't win almost every game. It's a killer sided game now and devs expect survivors to just be fodder for killers' entertainment.
So either you just want to he the victim or this is a prime example of us VS them.
Both sides are cared about equally. This is new since it hasn't been like that in the past. It's so sad that this mindset still prevails instead of people just taking their time to see both sides of inform themselves.
We should be better.
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@mecca said:
It's not fun losing against something overpowered in a video game.
Billy is not overpowered.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3665218#Comment_3665218
It's more the fact that he's new Killer.
So it will be 2-3 weeks until we are back to normal.
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@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3665094#Comment_3665094
Those are very good questions and both not easy to answer.
Billy is an almost perfect killer in my opinion. Skill expresson on both sides - and all he needs are two things. A little nerf on the missed cooldown (basekit) and an even smaller nerf on overdrive speed. It is so fast that even mediocre ping on either side is enough to no be able to juke it.
Blight is even harder to answer, but the zoning potential is in my opinion a little bit to good. Rush token recharg should be a tiny bit slower, on all charges maybe 0,5 seconds. A few addons are still questionable. Hug tec is a hot take, and one reason i like skill expresson on blight a lot, but it is probably to powerful. On the other hand, i would actually miss it.
Wesker is close to perfect in terms of power level, but some techs are simply to good and realisticly nothing you can do in certaint spots, especially when you are unaware how good this Wesker actually is. So to answer this question aswell: Optimal power level for me personally is A and B tier killer like Demogorgon, Huntress and Wesker with small changes on his techs.
On the other Hand, what means power level in terms of fun? I would rather face a cracked Blight 10 times in a row then one single bad Skull Merchant.
I think only one killer in the game is truly too strong. Against every other killer, you can use pallets and windows to some regard.
You literally can do absolutely nothing against a Nurse that is on point.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3664838#Comment_3664838
Eh, I'm not super sure on the curve window buff yet. Makes him a little too strong, imo.
It's just an overabundance of Billy atm. I think everyone is kinda sick of him. It'll get better eventually once people stop playing him (when Unlnown comes out)
Unknown is that popular already?
Did I miss something? Sadly, my expectation is that it's going to be like with Artist, Singularity and Xenomorph. Pretty rare after 2-3 weeks.
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@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3665029#Comment_3665029
And yet, they are beloved by the commuity the most. Just because a killer is strong does not mean survivors cant have fun with the them. Thats the point.
I believe also that Blight is to strong, objectivly speak he simply is without a doubt. But i still love him. Same with Billy. Even Wesker might be a tiny big to powerful, yet he is great fun and intense to play against. And also fair.
The argument survivors like easy wins, is objectivly and subjectivly completly wrong. Look at Freddy or Trapper. Super weak, but not many like playing against them.
Why are they too strong? What is the optimal power level in your opinion? I'm curious.
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@apathyinc said:
Maybe they DC'd because they are tired of being found right away with Lethal and saw spammed, then having to do 6 gens due to Pain Res, and and then be locked out of doing gens due to Grim Embrace. Just a theory.
The only Billy specific thing you mentioned was the saw spamming.
Everything else can be applies to any killer.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3662077#Comment_3662077
But the pallets/loops on Greenville don’t offer play for both sides. They not very mind gameable; they all but guarantee a hit for killers, especially killers with ranged attacks. So yeah it’s a killer-sided map. Not sure why I should pretend otherwise. It’s normal that a map favors one side or the other, and this isn’t the first or only killer-sided map in the game.
I personally like a mixture of strong and weak tiles. I don’t like maps with weak filler pallets or dead zones. I think Greenville offers good hiding spots (kinda) but I know that isn’t a playstyle anyone really likes here.
Greenville not only has loops with guaranteed hits. Not even for ranged killers. In my 10+ games that i played on the ptb, i have seen various pallets and loops on the map. There are many rock loops that offer mindgames without being guaranteed hits, 3 pallets at the statue that are pretty strong and can be chained, a shack that again is by no means a guaranteed hit and yes some weak pallets. Additionally, the map is pretty big, this helps the survivor-team. Not the killer. All around, this seems pretty balanced to me.
To conclude, i have two questions for you:
- What do you consider a fair map / a fair tile?
- Do you think a killer- or a survivor favoured map is more healthy for the game?
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3662158#Comment_3662158
She does. Why would you blind or mangle or exhaust or any of that over the years a surv with a party hat on if the intention is not to go after them. Fundamentally built to encourage tunneling.
I dont think she needs a major addon pass. Many addons are fine and even creative. But i do agree, that some addons are questionable at best.
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@Zeidoktor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3662211#Comment_3662211
It reminds me of a video I saw during Sadako's first rework when they tested her new power with Iri Tape, which basically gave Sadako her old power...
Some people do a lot to get their view-counts in. Id just love to see them stick to facts and not just ride the hype - train. Especially, when the hype - train isnt even there to begin with.
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@Zeidoktor said:
Here's a couple of PTB Pig videos to help from (respectively) RedGamingGears, TwoKnee, SpookyLoopz, and Bazazell:
https://youtu.be/KQgRnNqf9EY?si=oEQW1Qtk3n7v30sa
https://youtu.be/9XHtoOJvVbM?si=NmAxAsXpA7fd7X_R
https://youtu.be/YM4X9fDx5Ro?si=6HbTFSW5222n6oc0
https://youtu.be/ezwA-8p1ZeE?si=QxDSZc4vr7McJNHN
My only gripe is the videos seem to use the Pig's Ambush related addons, which kind of defeats the purpose in my opinion (I haven't watched TwoKnee's vid so could be wrong there)
Most of the videos I've seen, the players use the addons. What I find hilarious is, that most of this was possible before the buff as well.
Placebo effect in full force.
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I played a ton of pig on Ptb and recorded my matches. If you want to, i can share the links.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3661822#Comment_3661822
Subpar. The tiles can’t be chained efficiently because they’re impeded by obstacles. But even so they’re very short so chaining isn’t really worth while. I think this map is meant to encourage hiding or a more reserved playstyle, it seems better for that. It has a shack similar to GoJ’s though, I think it always spawns in like a remote corner.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3661824#Comment_3661824
You’re right, it’s large. But the tiles are weak; the pallets are unsafe. And while I like the pallet in main (in the theater, you mean?) it’s also weak. You can’t even escape the room if the killer breaks it and you’re closest to the screen before the killer catches up with you. Gods forbid you face a projectile killer because it’s over. I agree about shack but I think all but 2 maps have a shack. The ones that don’t (Lery’s and Gideon) compensate in other ways. Greenville has a lot of good hiding spots and decent LoS blockers in the woods that could help throw a killer off. But this isn’t a balanced map, it’s killer-sided and that’s OK.
I think a pallet should offer gameplay from both sides. Many safe pallets become a break simulator. The killer has to force the pallet to break it. No hit, just the pallet.
I'm not a fan of that. Jungle gyms are safe but fine because they (for the most part) allow mindgames and therefore a chance of getting a hit.
What type of pallet would you want? I see that the map offers a good amount of gameplay. If this is the standart of calling a map killer sided, then I do think we might have a problem.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3661585#Comment_3661585
Nostromo and Greenville Square are full of weak loops and unsafe pallets. What makes those good spots? I’m just curious.
Both are pretty big with lots of loops and gens on the outskirts. That delays most killers a lot and helps survivors a lot that spread out. Also, i saw a lot of good pallets on Greenville square. The main building can rotate, offering a really strong pallet that can lean to the building. Otherwise, there is a shack. Thats what i consider not only a strong tile, but a completely unfair one for every m1 oriented killer.
Most of the tiles are pretty fair to play as m1, which is what i like to see. Seems like a good map to me. Sorry, if you disagree, but that has been my experience on the ptb.
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Some are good, some are bad. I think nostromo wreckage and the new map that is coming seem to be in a good spot to me. Garden of Joy is still an outlier.
The most problematic map in the game for me, is still the Gideon meat plant. Either unfairly great for killer or unfairly good for survivor. The loop design on this map together with its layout don't leave anything in between. This map needs serious attention and im suprised that it's not a usual but rather rare topic of discussion.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3659875#Comment_3659875
Yeah, but playing against 4xDH, 4x MFT, 4x UB is much much more "not nice to play against", so I don't mind this kind of builds. Heck, I tried such a 55% unhooking build myself, and my buddy laughed at me the whole night how I slipped into 2nd stage tome and time again.
But my SWF and me have a fun lil ritual: when we come to the unhook, we will point and nod at the hook one and dare them to kobe. They get one try, then we unhook each other. Its playfully toxic for onlookers, but totally fun for ourselves.
That sounds like fun.
I'm not against the removal of the kobe. But it could see some fine tuning.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
Because there is no issue with this mechanic. Just because you hate it, it does not make it bad.
If devs see problem with it, they will change it. But they don't.
I think, the only time, it beccomes problematic is when 4 luck offerings and more then 3 slippery meat and up the ante are in play. Almost a 70 - 80% rate for a free unhook is not "nice" to play against. There is a reason of why deliverance has a huge requirement.
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@Vanishlord said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3659668#Comment_3659668
Great job keeping calm I might of lost it at the last comment I am many things but I am not a scummy pig main and I know what I am talking about when it comes to her kit. They definitely are not a pig main.
On a seperate more positive note
@UndeddJester @Nun_So_Vile @AbsolutGrndZer0 @radiantHero23 We have taken a major step now that we have gotten Mandy's attention and she has passed it on to the devs. Lets hope she keeps us updated and the devs approve it.
We really made a break through. I cant remember the last time, a dev / community manager stepped in to confirm that the feedback was taken into consideration. We all did a great job there.
Big thanks especially to @UndeddJester and @Nun_So_Vile for their summary - post. You both deserve a big BOOP from our lady herself. 🐽
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Pig and Sadako. You love to play against, what you love to play.
Also Huntress, Xeno, Billy, Bubba, Wesker, Twins, Myers, Singularity and a ton of others.
Last but not least: Knight! I just adore to find out what bug I can use to counter him next.
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Why does the killer have to bring at least one slowdown perk?
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@CountOfTheFog said:
People are more or less over that. At this point, people are burning out. SoloQ is awful and people need a break. The game is addictive so it's hard to take one, especially if there's an event or a rift.
I'm playing souls-games....
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@MechWarrior3 said:
If anyone says playing killer is easy - they need to join my MMR. Gens get done in 4 and a half minutes, (lost 4 gens) happened last night on Prenn. (As pig) They had resilience and Dejavú.
I love killer and this is not a complaint, but is not easy. I rarely tunnel and almost never proxy camp, but it’s frustrating when gens fly. I try not to use a ton of regression because I know it’s annoying to survivors.
I had lethal, sloppy, surge and brutal. I’m sure some of it is a skill issue but I was getting hits in left and right, my chases weren’t too long either. I never over commit.
@radiantHero23 I need help with my pig game. Oink oink.
I WAS SUMMONED 🐽
Killer can be as easy as the payers involved allow it.
The stronger the killer in play and their load out is, the simpler their road to success will be (most of the time)
Same can be said for survivor. Load out can change the world in dbd.
Of course, personal skill also has to be looked at. Game sense and experience is very important for both survivor and killer performance. On killer, specific understanding for mechanics is also important.
Pig for example has stealth, the ambush and the traps. At a low level, the traps and the stealth alone are extremely oppressive. Many survivors have huge problems dealing with these mechanics alone. However, the better the survivors get, the more the killer has to pull their weight.
At a higher level, stealth is not as viable anymore because the Pig will loose a ton of time moving around the map at a speed that is slower than a survivor running. She can't keep up with gens that way. The ambush will also become a lot less viable due to survivors knowing that it can be shut down by pre dropping and shift w as soon as the pig starts to crouch.
At this point, the killer has to improve as well. In terms of Pig, this means: mastering the moondash, playing around boxes and using a build with addon, that's suits a specific playstyle.
This is how I played with Pig for a long time. Almost every game is an uphill battle, but most of the time, I come put on top because of all the things I mentioned.
Dbd at a normal public level is pretty balanced. It's heavily killer favored at lower levels and rather survivor favored at the highest level.
(sorry, I got lost... Where do you need help friend?)
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3658244#Comment_3658244
If we're happy, maybe wait for @radiantHero23 to sign off, then we just post I suppose...
I was tempted to comission C3 Tooth to draw a frustrated/sad Amanda gesturing to a broken RBT on a table while looking up at the Entity with the caption:
Entity : "I have tried to help you, Amanda."
Amanda : "Then help me! Fix me! Fix me m-----f-----! I'm standing right here!"
However they're based in Vietnam apparently and I can't find what comission service they're using in a timely manner ^^
Im so sorry guys, I'm delaying this important matter...
@Nun_So_Vile said:
Edit below.
Her Chase
First of all, BHVR, we are a humble group of Pig players who want to thank you for turning attention to our Killer. We would like to go on the record as saying we believe your intent for the Pig is coming from the correct place. Improving her chase is a welcome improvement many of us have been eagerly waiting for, and we certainly approve of these changes to her crouch speed, crouch movement speed, and ambush changes. These changes have made noticeable improvements in her performance at a variety of loops, like the car loop tile on the Garden of Joy map, going around shorter loops around tiles, going around rubble & objects into straightaways, and expanding on the number of tiles she can catch survivors on in general.
However, largely what this buff does not address is that she is plagued by the same issues as before, where using any pre-dropping, any semi-decent pallet, and holding W to run away as she attempts to ambush, will still beat her. These same tiles and strategies lead to her buffs becoming negligible in action because crouching makes her lose distance since the survivor simply drops the pallet and runs away to gain more distance, ergo she is forced out of her killer ability. This makes her ambush and crouch buffs minimized and unreliable to use across a variety of similar situations. This is apparent on even her strongest maps for stealth/ambushing like Midwich. We do not think these changes will bring about the intended outcome they provide a solution for in their current state.
We would appreciate more buffs in this department. We know you cannot make her unreasonably strong, so we reasonably encourage you to take into close consideration the slowdown brought on by her Reverse Bear Traps (RBTs). Promoting unfun playstyles is the last thing we ask for, but it is apparent that these initial number buffs are just not enough to bring Pig past how she performs currently overall.
Why RBTs need toning down
We acknowledge that buffs to her chase will require a tradeoff, as the strength of her RBTs should absolutely correlate to the strength of her chase. Throughout a number of updates, there has been a rise in the number of strong scream perks, which has facilitated a less engaging and unfun playstyle for the Pig. Chasing off Pig boxes and forcing pops was always possible, however, the time efficiency of doing so was quite bad due to the need to force a survivor to let go, and the timer is halted while in a chase. With the addition of perks like Hex: Face the Darkness and Ultimate Weapon, interrupting boxes has become both easier and more viable to force head pops, with little counterplay for survivors outside of Calm Spirit. We do understand that something needs to be done about this playstyle.
Why the current nerfs aren't the solution
The current nerfs are:
- The Pig can no longer see the auras of Jigsaw Boxes
- Reverse Bear Traps now have a base timer of 3 minutes (was 2.5 minutes)
These nerfs do not solve the problems players are having with Pig.
The extra 30s make forcing a head pop kill longer, more tedious, and less profitable, but ultimately it doesn't prevent a Pig from doing it. It is just as much throwing the game as before; it just means the obnoxious Jigsaw box playstyles require a more direct commitment to do. It does not prevent killer from tunneling the first surv they see with a trap on their head. There have been massive discussions about how this hurts regular Pig play, which have typically gotten quite heated so we won't be dredging that up again, but these nerfs affect every Pig regardless of play style, even if the overall time denied survivors from searching boxes is the same. Survivors have counterplay if they work as a team and delay gen pops in line with when survivors get trapped; just allowing 15 seconds for the survivor to get a head start on boxes is enough to prevent a head pop. This +30s change undeniably hurts the overall pressure provided by her Jigsaw boxes, and working around and accounting for that pressure was always what drew people to the Pig, similar to how setting up as Trapper and having it pay off down the road was immensely satisfying, even if the Killer isn't especially strong.
The denial of auras is more an annoyance than anything, it means that the highest level of Pig play will result in a need to memorize Pig box spawns, which is just an unnecessary irritation and makes Pig less accessible to newer players because of the random spawning algorithm. On indoor maps, because they are small maps you can run into surv doing the box cause of how they spawn, and tunnel them that way just playing the game...It doesn't address the problematic play style at all, as the Pig's who want to tunnel or force head pops will run Hex: Face the Darkness, Ultimate weapon, and maybe even aura perks to simply chase down survivors they want to pop anyway. Again this is hurting the regular Pig play style more than the problem Pig play style.
Our Proposed Solution
Instead of the nerfs proposed, we aim to target the issues Survivors are facing directly: -
- An active Bear Trap can no longer trigger while the survivor is still searching Jigsaw Boxes.
- And either: -
- Screams do not interrupt survivors working on Jigsaw boxes. <- (Direct scream nerf for all scenarios)
- Letting go of a Jigsaw box will regress progress at a rate of 1 c/s <- (Better future-proofing for other types of interrupt, but screams still can cause a pop if on the last box and the timer is spent... maybe rare enough to not matter?)
These changes maintain the threat of a head trap and keeps the macro game of the Pig intact, where interrupting a survivor at select moments ensures sub-optimal choices from the survivors overall and buys pressure and time.
In the same breath, these changes eliminate the 2 most hated parts of the Pig's traps.
- That hopeless situation where it's impossible to get a head trap off even if you find the final box.
- Being constantly reset on progress by a Pig forcing you to scream.
We want people to enjoy playing against the Pig, and our hope is that these changes keep the tenseness of the head trap, while also eliminating the nastier play styles. A Pig trying to head pop you, can't just use a scream to interrupt your progress. The Pig now has to actively push you off a box, which will activate the chase timer pause. We envision moments where people who don't know about the head trap being unable to pop while searching will be holding their breath hoping they can get their trap off in time, while those players who are aware will be holding their breath, hoping the Pig doesn't find them in that moment (similar to how being the last survivor committing to open the gate is a rush hoping the Killer doesn't happen to find you at that moment).
With this, we feel the Pig will be nicer to play, maintain her fear factor for survivors without being obnoxious, and be more engaging and fun for everyone.
Thanks for taking the time to read!
Signed the Society of Swine
Well done friends!!! I have nothing to add.
The only thing I would specify is with our proposed changes.
The bear trap to trigger could also be understood as activating the trap. Maybe you could specify the "triggering" of the trap. Something along the line of : the timer will be paused at 99.99%, leaving enough time to search the final box. If the box is not the final one or a skill check I'd missed, the trap will immediately kill that survivor.
I'm also not really a fan of the idea of preserving progress, but I can get behind it.
Great work all around!!!
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3658028#Comment_3658028
Suppose a summary thread signed from all us Pig mains that covers: -
- Acknowledgement of the problems to solve.
- The buffs are very nice QOL changes, but ultimately the scenarios it actually makes a difference are not that prevelant.
- The changes don't solve what they want to solve (screams and being box camped).
- The nerfs hurts all types of Pig players, not just the trolling ones.
- radiantHero's changes we propose instead to actually solve the problem.
- Signed the Society of Swine. Plz sign with us 😁
Don't think we need to linger on points long, we already have a few essays through the forum. Quick Points are gonna be the way I think. I can mock something up at lunch time and throw up for review in a group PM unless someone beats me to it.
Thank you so much for your effort friend!
You deserve a special BOOP for that🐽
The council of Pig mains has spoken!
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@UndeddJester said:
Far be it from me to misrepresent the collective will of the Glorious Snoot Society:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3657275#Comment_3657275
What do we reckon to this suggestion?
I always liked @radiantHero23s suggestion:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3654229#Comment_3654229
Mechanically no arguments at all and nothing but support, the only thing that irks me about it is purely that it betrays a little of the idea of the theme of what's going on.
Mostly why would the timer stop mid search? Why does a scream not interrupt? (I don't like how we have screams that interrupt and screams that don't... the mechanic feels inconsistent to me).
How do we collectively feel about this alternative? If the search box degrades, screams doesn't cause a problem, survivors getting downed or chase stops progress on the timer, so having to commit to get a survivor to let go seems reasonable to me.
It seems almost as good, without the theme taking a hit. Thoughts? Anything I'm overlooking?
I know that its not ccompletely lore acccurate, but i do believe that it is the fairest nerf that can be done.
@Vanishlord said:
@radiantHero23 @Nun_So_Vile @JPLongstreet @UndeddJester @AbsolutGrndZer0
Since we are disscussing solutions and alternitives to this nerf, we need to agree on one and all try promote it we also need to incorporate survivors into it.
So far Jester and Hero's ideas removing the screams sounds like the way to go as from my disscussion the screams is one of the big problem survivors have.
The only thing I would add on is if we do end up with the extra 30 seconds the last bit of this post would help a bit.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/2V4L6EJXS3P9/image.png
(ignore my bad highlighting)
This for me is kind of a worst case scenerio as it still isn't ideal but it is better then the PTB state.
I do think just nerfing scream builds for pig is enough. Lets keep brainstorming people!🐷
Is this not completely unnecessary? If the time on the Box is increased, this could (at base) completely negate the nerf they want to implement. On top of that, a buff to the search time would also buff the addons that are already strong (gears and timer). This is not a good idea, if you ask me...
@Nun_So_Vile said:
Posting here just for another perspective on PTB buffs in action. First chase ~24 seconds in... man oh man.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZ2fwHgJLXA
Just absolutely shocking...
Yeah.... BTW.... can we get this man in on our cause? He seems very insightful and a great BOOP - enthusiast.
@Vanishlord said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3657830#Comment_3657830
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3657833#Comment_3657833
So we are agreed. I guess unless anyone else joins this disscussion due to the limited time frame for feedback I think so far everyone disscusing the two ideas the majority of us have agreed on @radiantHero23 you're idea seems to be the way to go at the moment. As Nun_So_Vile said this buff needs to be done right it could be ages before there is another. So my fellow Pig council members how do we proceed?
Oh guys, you make me blush 🐽
Jokes aside, i hope they will do whats the logically best solution and not force their nerf upon us like they did with Sadako.
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The only reason of why i dont want map offerings to go is scratched mirror Myers.
Otherwise, the offerings can absolutely go in my opinion. They hold immense power and are most of the time completely unfair.
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One of my favourite tiles in DBD. Full of mindgame potential for both sides. A really good survivor and a really good m1 killer playing this tile against each other is a trait to see and i often love to see a survivor go to one of these tiles. Sadly, the players that play this good are a rare sight to see. Many just walk away from them.
I hope this tile never changes.
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@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3655376#Comment_3655376
I don't follow you (but will for sure soon as you give me your YouTube name!) so can we get a link?
It's in the feedback section. The pinned comment on killer changes.
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@Nun_So_Vile said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3655019#Comment_3655019
Outstanding field reporting. I'll follow-up when I have some free time.
Post is online. A total 8 Pig matches with some outstanding ambushes. Please give me your opinions on the changes for all of you that cant test her right now!!!
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@Nun_So_Vile said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/K1CFHQLYK33C/emergency-meeting-jpg.jpg
@radiantHero23 @AbsolutGrndZer0 @UndeddJester @JPLongstreet @Majin151 @Vanishlord @Blueberry
Pardon the urgency my fine fellow pigs, but I think we can all agree when I say the recent proposed changes to her RBTS is how you say...bullshit. Some might say even too heavy-handed in response to the problem it intends to solve.
Not to undercut the importance of the actual buffs she's receiving, but the changes to RBT go too far against her whole shtick and we can see right through it all no matter how they might try and confuse and muddle the issue. Any of you with access to the PTB that plan on playing, please report on your experiences with these changes and their impact overall for those us without PTB access. Thank you for your time.
Im already very active friend, recorded a ton of matches. Currently uploading. My feedback will be lenghty. I would gladly see you all having a look and commenting on it when its ready.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3654241#Comment_3654241
contradiction. you told you do not need add-on to mori and have provided evidence with a video showcasing pig mori survivors without add-on's. This showcases that mori is simple to pull off with minimum effort.
I have had ideas for how to rework Pig and Myer's mori's however BVHR has taken a stance to eradicate them from the game.
I do not contradict myself. Your just searching for any opportunity.
In the match i showed, i played around the traps. The survivors didnt. If survivors do not go into lockers against Myers with green stalk and purple tombstone, then their game wwill be short. If survivors let themselves be stalked by a Myers with green stalk and puple tombstone then their game will be bad. If survivors play bad, then the power will do something. Is this not how it should work?
I did the best i could by standing still. That was my play.
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@AssortedSorting said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3654486#Comment_3654486
I agree that with too much time it can become a non-threat, potentially allowing Survivors to consolidate when they all start searching reducing the time pig has a constant 1v3.
If they know they have two searches or lower it's still relatively irrelevant with the current time.
And if they have up to four searches, the more they get interrupted by Pig when they could have been searching, the more likely they spend more time having to navigate from hook/chase escape to their next box, and Pig also knows their next relative location. At least I'm pretty sure Survivors cannot interact with the same box again. (Brain is flatlining atm).
No, one search per box.
My argument is, that the traps are in a great spot right now with the exception of scearming interrupting the action. Pig is bad in chase. Therefore, that should be buffed. Thats good. If the chase is buffed, her traps should be nerfed. Absolutely agree.
Right now, Pig is already on the lower end . The buffs will not make her chase improve her chase as much. The nerfs are too severe. How do i know that? Im using medical file and combat straps every game. A weaker effect of these addons will be made basekit. Is the combo strong right now? Not by a long shot. Why should it be strong then. Her weakest part is getting buffed to be now maybe passable. Her strong part is becoming really bad though.
Nerfing it is fine. However, the nerf has to be in line with the buffs. This is not in line and does not even target the part that people are complaining about (screaming Pig).
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@AssortedSorting said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3654480#Comment_3654480
What don't you like about the timer increase?
Giving the survivor more time leads to the kill becoming a non threat. Right now, Pig can force survivors into making hard decisions. With these changes, i see these decisions gone, because the survivor will simply have enough time to do anything they need to do. Heck, they could maybe even work on gens if the trap they have is 2 searches or lower.
I dont think i have to go into why 10 seconds more or less are such a huge difference, when the tempered timer exists, do i?
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@AssortedSorting said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3654461#Comment_3654461
I'm fine with the extra time, I don't think interruptions should cause the RBT to straight up kill a survivor with little investment.
I just don't like the Jigsaw Box Aura removal for Pig.
At least for my playstyle its a QoL nerf for when I've hooked someone else and see the RBT'ed Survivor still hasn't taken off their active trap, I'd patrol Boxes if I thought they might be nearby for another down. Now I don't have the Box Auras as a guide like I do with Generators. I can still do it, but it's going to require more map memorization.
It's not like removing the Jigsaw Box Aura is going to stop a Pig player from hardcore following a survivor off of hook. Nor address that her RBT's aren't the cause for tunneling in the first place: it's a universally good strategy at the moment, it just so happens that Pig quite literally can put the first RBT on the prime tunneling candidate - the first down.
I agree! I dont like the changes to her aura one bit. Both the timer increase and the removal of the auras are the wrong nerfs.
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@Zeidoktor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3654457#Comment_3654457
Correction: It's one-third of her power, and the other two thirds are getting buffed.
Head pops are a bonus, not a goal. It's why I don't view the RBT timer change as that big an issue. Especially in light of my original point that it's possibly intended to compensate for exactly the issue you described of getting stuck on a 4 box search.
But its a part of her kit nonetheless. If the sole purpose of the traps where slowdown, then why is their effect not this: a survivor wearing a reverse bear trap cannot interact with a generator. It can kill. It should stay able to kill. If even the most troublesome rng of the searches is not threatening, then this part of the power is overall not a threat.
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@AssortedSorting said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3654160#Comment_3654160
Given Perks are not supposed to interact with Killer Powers, yes, using things like Perks that cause a Survivor to Scream, interrupting and resetting a Jigsaw Box search is technically a bug, an exploit. Not sure why this hasn't been addressed yet.
RBT's are designed to provide slowdown, with the threat of lethality as a reason to do the Boxes, with Pig leveraging that slowdown to allow time for her stealth to allow early hits and to brute force tough loops to get downs.
Bypassing the need for chases and stealth through forcing a headpop by simply interrupting that survivor once or twice is smart, but not engaging for the Survivor who now skips hooks and chases that would have otherwise been engaging.
That's not good design.
I do want to point out though that I'm not against Pig players interrupting Survivors searching Jigsaw boxes, so long as it leads to chases that can also be engaging, an unease of not knowing if the Pig will pop out of nowhere. And it is fun using the knowledge of the Jigsaw Box locations to modify your patrol routes based on current RBT status (I'm against the Aura suppression). However simple harassment with no commitment should not be most effective.
I agree, but then are not these interruptions targeted?
The best nerfs in my opinion are these:
- survivors cannot die to the timer running out while searching a jigsaw box
- survivors are not interrupted by screaming while searching a jigsaw box
This adresses the short interrupting. The Pig has to commit. Screaming also would not work. The 30 seconds more are not necessary and just give the survivors more room for mistakes. These mistakes, by the way, only come into play when the box takes 4 searches. Even 3 are usually not a threat.
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@Zeidoktor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3654411#Comment_3654411
At the same time, how likely are you to get a head pop on a small map with the current timer, unless you're actively going out of your way to do so?
Depends on the rng and how you play around it. If you have 2 traps with 4 searches, you can very much get head pops on every map right now.
You should go out of your way to get the traps to work. Its your power. You just need to play smart to not waste too much time doing it. Pinhead should also play around his box. Same does Sadako. Pig should be able to do so as well.