radiantHero23
radiantHero23
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- radiantHero23
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650080#Comment_3650080
Deleting SM? My dreams are a reality
No character can simply be deleted. You know that as well as I do.
Best we could do, is provide constructive feedback on how to change her. Same as some dedicated people did with Sadako.
Maybe we should all overcome our bias and go to the feedback section and create a lengthy post on how to change this killer to be in a more healthy spot, rather than constantly fueling the hate train.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650021#Comment_3650021
I think a lot of Killers do give up and write matches off at the slightest hint of them having to really struggle.
Seems pretty obvious that Solo Q is just getting rolled and Duo and Trio isn't much better; so it wouldn't be unreasonable for a Killer to assume (and we know they do) that anything that causes them difficulty is due to 4-man SWF
Wasn't 40% what BHVR wanted? Isn't 60% KR the intended ratio?
Am I missing something or why are you all so upset about the stats?
From what I see, all is going as planned.
I honestly wasn't surprised by anything, not even selfcare being in top 10 survivor perks.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3648665#Comment_3648665
Except the game's asymmetrical, and gens and survivors aren't properly comparable.
If they are supposed to be, can survivors also get hookstate regression?
Well... If we want to go that route, there are 12 hook stages and 5 generators. If we compare each of these 12 chases to generator progress, the killer has a huge time problem. Especially because a killer can only target one survivor to hit and down, while the 3 other survivors can spread, work on and finish multiple generator at the same time. This is why the early game is so important to go well for a killer. They can lose 3 gens very fast, if they cant down someone quickly.
If hook stages could regress, the killer would be faced with an even worse time problem, dont you think?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3648096#Comment_3648096
You can't really play with silly builds either, because you will be ID'd immediately and killed off.
My build is:
Empathic connection, botany knowledge, second wind and well make it. Works like a charm. Not been tunneled out so far. Been using it for months now.
Im sorry that your experience is so different.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3647953#Comment_3647953
There are times when it's unwarranted, but there are times when it is. If someone is named something like "AllKillersSuck69" they probably aren't gonna have reasonable takes.
Really? Show me some proof. Any Kill Rates? Perhaps some escape rates?
As for hand-holding, they literally just fixed gen tapping. They continue to buff gen perks whilst nerfing gen speeds for Survivors. They adjusted pallet logic, continue to push out more deadzones in maps that don't need them.
It's extremely obvious that you have a pretty bad bias here. You should try to play Solo Q some time, I can't really recommend it as a fun mode, but it will be eye-opening.
SoloQ can very much be fun. You just need to change your mindset.
Winnig seems to be entirely how you have fun in dbd, so I don't think I can change your opinion there.
If I play soloq, I try to look at my own performance and try to play well. If I had fun while playing, the match is a win regardless of escape or sacrifice. That's just me though and I very much understand the struggle of soloq.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3647795#Comment_3647795
Give SWF repair/heal speed penalties.
"Punish all swiffers, clearly too stronk, too OP, nerf!"
Meanwhile, my team and I sharing approximately 2 braincells between us:
We all know how a really good swf looks like. Sadly people like to remember bad games way more than good games. People get stomped by a comp squad once after 3 months and their day is ruined.
A majority of games does not consist of these types of swf, just as you stated.
People that call upon general nerfs for people that just play with friends are either too invested into the game and take it way too seriously or simply don't understand how games are marketed.
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@th3syst3m said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3647945#Comment_3647945
Wait, you're saying survivors should be solo in ranked?
I suppose it's tied to the "friends just play casual all the time" - sort of mindset.
Everyone should be allowed to play anything. Swf is undeniably one of the biggest imbalances in the game, but it's a problem that can't really be solved.
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@Vorahk08 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3647789#Comment_3647789
Give SWF repair/heal speed penalties.
I'm being serious. If they want to play together, then the can be forced to do everything together.
No...
Punishing people for playing with their friends is how you NOT sell a game.
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@BlightedDolphin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3648021#Comment_3648021
Depends on the killer. M1 killers like Ghostface and Sadako it's still pretty good but killers who used to get good value from it like Deathslinger and Demo now are better off without it.
And honestly the perk could be F tier and I would still run it on Freddy just for the satisfying finger wiggles.
Im a Pig-, Sadako main. I will never drop Stbfl. The effect just isnt replacable by any other perk in the game. I still play Stbfl only Piggy. The perk is still very solid, just lost a lot of synergy. A bad nerf in my opinion.
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@BlightedDolphin said:
They’ve always been the meta.
I don’t like running 4 slowdown because I think it’s boring but I can understand why everyone else does, especially since there isn’t really any other alternative.
Chase perks aren’t that great and with the STBFL nerf the only one really worth running is now gone.
Aura perks are hard countered by Distortion. Why bother running a perk that has the potential to be useless when slowdown perks always give value?
End game perks are fine, but why plan for the end game when you can prevent it entirely?
There isn’t really any chance for variety. Slowdown is so consistent and useful and every other type of perk is often not worth running or completely outshined by slowdown so I can see why it’s so popular.
And unfortunately this is probably going to be the meta for a while. They need to nerf all slowdown across the board and then buff the other perks so that slowdown isn’t the best anymore. Maybe give a base kit slowdown buff as well.
Stbfl is still stable in my builds. Perk can't be replaced.
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I still run one chase-, two info- and one regression - perk(s).
I dont think 4 slowdown / regression perks are the best way to go, but that's debatable.
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@CammyChameleon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3647484#Comment_3647484
What build did you use against Knightlight might I ask?
I played Pig against Knightlight.
I used Stbfl, Surge, Lethal and bbq. But i could have had no perks to be honest. I won just because of Pig alone.
On Sadako, i would still very much use my main build.
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@JackieShana said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3647509#Comment_3647509
Good points overall. I'll be moving Onryo and Pig up. Thanks!
Very much appreciated 🐽
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3647151#Comment_3647151
I never said she was perfect, I only meant, that her concept of threatening tapes and local condemned was the best back then. They had only to buff her not rework her. If it wouldn‘t have been that difficult to condemned people, then people would have played healthier. I‘m also happy with the buffs she got over time (cooldowns, anti stun etc), but I want the first version to get those buffs and not this version. The addons also weren‘t the problem, it was that most people had to play slugging to get someone condemned, because it was the easiest way. I think my idea would have solved the issue and the buffs she got. For example with lock in most people would have hooked people and the proximity based condemned with 24m 0,5stack, 16m 1stack and 8m 2stacks would have made condemning someone far easier. All in all these things could have made condemned better and keep a good teleport gameplay.
I‘m not saying this rework is bad. In my opinion her first concept was just the best and could have been buffed easily to make her healthier. Most sadakos I played against back then, also didn‘t play like you say. Most of them played like me and shure they went for the condemned guy, when the killer instinct appeared, but getting condemned was really rare back then.
Overall I‘m fine with the rework, when they remove the TV auras and make grabbing tapes not a free win (passive condemned). Addons could be done, but if that is all I can complain about, so be it.
No. Giving the current buffs to old Sadako would not have been fine. Some of her addons where not healthy at all. The best contender was ring drawing. This addon alone was strong enough to encourage slugging. The removal of healing of the ground was the best decision in terms of addon changes, she ever got.
I very much know how she played back then. I was 4th on public steam leaderboards. Onepumpwillie also played against very high tier comp swfs, showcasing how effective and ineffective condemned was.
Sadako was a really interesting killer. Otherwise I would have never pushed for a revision of her rework. This is why I started my account on this forum. My first post was a 15 min read on the feedback of the Ptb back then.
I loved old Sadako due to her being a challenge and the high strategically skill cieling but would have to lie if I said that she was without flaws or even in a good spot. Condemned slugging was the main thing people complained about. Sure, nobody did have to play her that way. I tried to find strategies to get people condemned without ring drawing, iri tape and slugging. Thats where my build comes from. Slugging was not the easiest, it was the only way to get condemned be a real threat. My games back then had me sweating and concentrating for 10-20 min straight to maybe get one or two moris. It was extremely hard but rewarding. Slugging with ring drawing and iri tape made all this way more oppressive and yes, also easier but mostly elevated her power level by a considerable amount.
If she had old ring drawing right now, people would still slug. Hooking takes a lot of time. Sadako has really good mobility. Slugging is just the logical solution if you have an addon, that rewards it with free pressure. I use ring drawing right now almost all the time. Why? Because it rewards me for hooking. That's healthy gameplay.
The version we have now is pretty decent and worlds better and healthier than the two versions we had before. This is not an opinion. This is a fact. She needs further tweaks, but not another entire rework, just as you said.
I think we can all be pretty grateful that this patch even happened in the first place, although it was not necessary to change her that much in the first place.
That we, as a community, had such influence on a character that is played around the world by thousands of people is insane to me. BHVR does not owe us anything. We are only players.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3647420#Comment_3647420
Do people really think Nurse is easy to play, but the vast majority of the players just don't want to spend a small amount of time to learn her? Really? So people see tier lists, say "I'm going to play Nurse because she's S tier"..... but then just immediately give up because they lost a few games in a row?
Really? The only thing keeping the game from turning into a mass invasion of Nurse players, is a small learning curve that the majority of players are too collectively lazy to learn?
I have to partially agree. Nure is easy... To perform extremely well with. It's far easier to get kills with Nurse than with any other killer in the game. This is due to her power having no counterplay if the player playing her is on point.
Getting the hang of nurse takes roughly 10 matches at most. The first ones will probably result in low amount of hooks, if any at all. After these matches, the player should be able to stomp a majority of public matches. Especially with some builds. Mastering Nurse is definitely harder though. She has a lot of tricks that can be pulled of, that require a decent amount of gamesense and skill. Sadly those skills are not needed by a long shot for the majority of public matches.
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@JackieShana said:
Hi everyone! I have roughly 4500h in the game and came up with this tierlist for the most recent patch (7.5.0). I'd like for some feedback (if possible with arguments), especially for Trickster, Twins and Onryo placements, since I don't play these killers at all.
What do you guys think? Thanks!
*Criteria: Consistency, basekit, common addons, maps and nowadays meta for both sides.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/8VWE5BR9UQTX/my-image-2842-29.png
Sadako and Pig are at least better than Clown and Ghostface. Both are around Doc, who is also upper C tier. Bubba is higher up in mid B around Demo. Wraith is in C tier.
Rest I can agree with. Just some placement switches.
Edit: sorry, I forgot arguments. I have a ton of experience in Sadako, both OG and new Sadako. On Pig, I have 2200+ hours alone.
Pig: her problems are the early game. If Piggy gets the traps out, her game delay is unrivaled by any killer and with the right Rng and the correct strategic input from the killer, can provide kills even without any addons or specific perks. In terms of chase, with 2 addons (combat straps and medical file) stealth can be relatively decent and can result in free first hits. Ambush and especially moondash are situational. Sometimes completely useless, sometimes the best anti loop ever. All depends on knowledge and sadly the two addons I mentioned.
Onryo: 70% or addons are terrible, but arelatively consistent basekit. Strong map mobility with mori potential if played strategically correct. Chase is not very strong but similar to pig, she had build in game delay that can't be ignored. Sadako has a strong early game while Pig has the stronger slowdown. Amanda has better chase while Sadako has better mobility. Who is better now?
They are pretty close. Both are mid c tier. If played at their best (addons, player, map) , both go up to bottom B. Sadako outperforms Pig by a small amount in that regard.
Both are solid and way better than some give them credit for. I stand by that opinion based in my experience in dbd.
Bubba is only good with bamboozle and addons. Without both, his anti loop potential is really bad. With both equipped, some flick bubbas can make almost every loop a death trap. That deserves a spot near, if not one spot above demo.
Wraith struggles alot against coordinated teams and his ambush anti loop is extremely lack luster without certain addons.
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@WolfyWood said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3647216#Comment_3647216
This is a downside?
Yes it is.
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@CammyChameleon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3646703#Comment_3646703
I've been testing out a bunch of different builds.
Not sure why you think pwyf is bad though, I have been using it based off one of the Best Onryo's In The World from Team Creed, who has played a lot of Onryo against some of the best players, even team Eternal, and they say often times PWYF is banned in Comp because of how strong it is giving free hits and downs with that extra speed.
Pwyf helps against perfect loopers that you couldn't hit otherwise.
I just still need to learn how/when to farm the stacks to be most powerful.
Everyone is catchable. It's just a matter of time. From my experience, Sadako is more about condemn spreading than about chasing. It's up to the player to decide when and where to chase survivors.
My build is entirely focused around that playstyle.
Sadako doesn't have enough time to build up pwyf stacks. It's a secondary objective for the killer. I dislike having more work on my desk. That's why I use surge. No kicking. Less time wasted.
I focus all my time on strategic condemning. Stbfl is there for the important chase that I do commit to.
The other perks (Discordance and face the darkness) have amazing synergy with condemned.
You can of course play how you want. Just a suggestion from me (4th highest in steam leaderboards back with OG Sadako / have played against many comp players including knightlight.)
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@MechWarrior3 said:
How do you feel about this everyone?
@radiantHero23 @aprilghost_yt @jasonq500 @TheArbiter @OnryosTapeRentals @jonifire @ChaosWam and anyone else I forgot to mention
It's awful.
(what addon pass?)
I'm deeply disappointed in both she had. The only addons that changed are the ones that where problematic because of their strength. Iri tape and ring drawing where too strong. They are in a much healthier spot now, that is good. For all people that deeply dislike my takes: I think the iri tape is too weak right now and deserves buffs. Ring Drawing is weaker but much healthier because it encourages hooking over slugging.
All the awful addons haven't changed since she released despite the amount of feedback that got collected over time.
If you ask me about the 3ish addons that changed, Id say : I love it, great job!
From what I've experienced in addon passes in the past, many addons get changed. Around 70% of Sadakos addons have not changed at all over 2 passes. I can't call that a good job or even okay.
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3646990#Comment_3646990
You are not listening and you don‘t want someone else to play like they want. You can‘t compare killers with only one ability and pig, who‘s second ability is useless. It‘s like saying you don‘t use half of her ability, because you don’t crouch. Before the first rework her main power was the tp, that only shifted with the rework. It was more of a side quest before, that you could force.
I think condemned was only intended to be a small threat to make her stronger, that survivors don’t turn of TVs and to fit the lore more.
Iri tape won‘t do anything. It makes things only worse! The iri has to make her like the first version with unlimited tps to be somewhat good. With Tv auras, no strong passive condemned and no condemned ability it removes all slowdown and rewards survivors for removing everything this addon is supposed to do (it does not serve its own purpose).
Condemned is unhealthy, because it is always the number one complain about her. Also old iri tape allowed good mobility and you argue against it because of condemned, which shows the double standards!
Im listening to other people. I'm not telling people how to play. I'm suggesting strategies that work based on literal thousands of hours of experience. Same as any other main of a specific killer. If someone want to get her to work, I offer support. If they don't want, they don't have to follow my suggestions. Everyone can play how they want. Im also open to new strategies. I would just love to see gameplay of it working to understand it's effectiveness.
If you wanna talk about piggy, I'm very knowledgeable. Which ability of pig is supposed to be useless? If you say the traps, you are wrong. Downright wrong. Her stealth can work. Ambush as well. Pig works. She's just undertuned in terms of chase.
Now to Sadako. No mechanic is unhealthy because people complain. People complain about anything. That doesn't make it unhealthy. Slugging people for 2 minutes and ignoring hooks is unhealthy gameplay. The undeniably strongest part of og sadako was iri tape + ring drawing and slugging for condemned kills. Tp was not the main strength of her. Never has been. A killer with the best map mobility in the world is bad when the chase is lacking. Condemned has always been her biggest strength. It's a mori that is not related to hook stages.
IRI tape allowed one thing for the most part. Fast spread of condemned because cooldowns where non existent. It was the strongest addon for condemned slugging. That's why I'm against the old effect. It encourages slugging over hooking. Same with old ring drawing. The new effects are overall more healthy. Just introducing old iri tape right now would make her incredibly unbalanced against most pub gamers if that addon is used. I'm very certain of that. My idea for the tape would be: no survivor can interact with TVs. Only Sadako can and the TVs don't turn off in case she uses projection. That's extremely strong map mobility at the cost of condemned.
At the end of the day, we both dont and can't know what was supposed to be Sadakos main aspect. But I do think it has always been condemned. Sadako is an onryo. She curses people and kills them. If her curse is not the main part of her power, that would be anything but lore accurate. My main argument is, that her strength has always been condemned. If you wanted to make og Sadako work against good teams, you had to play into condemn. Her chase was awful and her stealth very mediocre. A killer could be on each survivor all game, but if they get no hit or down because there just isn't anything but m1 gameplay on very strong maps filled with structures and pallets that lack counterplay, all that map mobility serves no purpose at all.
Old Sadako had huge cooldowns. This is a change I feel most people just ignore. Her cooldowns have switched and got reduced. Both cooldowns are way lower. Og Sadako did not have unlimited teleports. She got hindered by 90s cooldowns if I'm not mistaken. This has changed drastically. The cooldown of a survivor turning it off is now 70s right? That's lower than before if Sadako turned it off. Back then, turning TVs off was bad for Survivor because it took longer for the tv to turn back on if Sadako projected to it. That has changed. Something that we suggested back then. A buff based on constructive feedback.
Constructive feedback. That's what I'm here for. I want Sadako to be in a healthy spot. She has always been troublesome due to her complex power. Right now she's in the best spot she had ever been. Definitely not the strongest. But the healthiest.
All killers have a power. Condemned is the power of Sadako. If you want to play her without it, you can absolutely do that, but she will never be strong by any means. Pig will hopefully receive buffs to her stealth and ambush. Then stealthing around as Pig will finally be worth it without combat straps and medical file.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3646982#Comment_3646982
I'm glad that you don't lack a sic understanding of Pig's rbt. 1-3-4-4 is indeed extremely oppressive. You dont even need addons to get head pops. Having survivors do anything else other than searching boxes can result in a head pop if they have 4 searches. This is the true power of pig. Survivors have to make difficult decisions. That how I beat knightlight and viewers. They made the wrong decisions. You dont need any screaming related perks to accomplish this result. You dont need addons to accomplish this result. All you need is the correct Rng. Ultimate weapon is not as good on her as people say. My simple explanation: when your in 32 meters around the survivor, interrupt them yourself. Easy as that. Your there. Why are you not doing it yourself? A good pig always knows where people are. At least I do. I memorize pathing throughout the match.
let me break down your statement.
1) Statistically, you do not have enough time to head-op someone without those add-on's if a player immediately begins searching the boxes, so yes you do need them vs good players.
2) "Ultimate weapon is not as good as people say". It is as good as people say it is in regard head-pop pig. Your explanation doesn't work because one of tips for playing vs pig is even if you hear TR, you should keep searching the box. Another tip vs Pig is to not waste pallets near Jigsaw boxes because it is vital that the player who searches jigsaw has a pallet nearby because it allows player to feel safe searching jigsaw such that survivor can calculate distance to get to the pallet. Now that I have covered the basics, the reason why Ultimate weapon is good is because you can predicting survivor pathing with jigsaw boxes and mathematically time the jigsaw search to reset 1-2 second sooner before search completes. In essence, using a scream perk forces survivor to 5 jigsaw boxes instead of 4 jigsaw boxes. If you know anything about Pig's history in regard jigsaw, you might remember that Pig used to have add-on to increase total number of Jigsaw boxes. The add-on was called Jigsaw's Sketch. This add-on was nerfed and no longer grants +1 jigsaw boxes on the map. Instead it gives +1 reverse bear traps. This was major because her traps were random so having 5 jigsaw boxes meant that you could get a 5 box search reverse bear trap and this was especially strong with Tamper Timer as it reduces bear trap timer by -30 seconds which is now -20 second. This add-on was also nerfed in deathslinger/spirit update.
To further talk about add-on Crate of Gears and Bag of Gears, these add-on only add 2.2 second and 1.65 second on paper which does not sound a lot however when you have search 4 jigsaw boxes. The cumulated time added from these add-on's amounts to a 5th jigsaw search because 3.85 x4 = 15 seconds.
Still watching inexperienced players such as Conconuts video on head-pop pig is funny because a lot of people will try to force the mori on pig by chasing after survivors in reckless fashion in desperation for Mori's when Pig's power for Mori is more like indirect mori that happens over-time.
But I have to say, that I think that new Sadako is here to remain for a while and will not see major reworks anytime soon. She got reworked twice in 9 months. That's a lot of time investment from a dev team that is known for having little time for major changes between big releases.
I agree. I do not see any reworks any time soon. She might get pig treatment where dev randomly fix her mori like how pig received the 12 box rule though i do not see this happening for at least 3-4 months. So for now, she is likely to stay underwhelming.
Underwhelming for you.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3646957#Comment_3646957
“I am saying that if you have enough bloodpoint and main killer to p100, you can use the said add-on every single game because you own 1000 add-on of the same copy. As such, the add-on is base-kit because you’re equipping the add-on every single game.”
Yeah, hold on. No…The word “Basekit” and “Add-on” dont go together. Period. It doesn’t matter if you have 578 of those addons. It’s NOT Basekit.
“Sadako is not game-delay. this is another propaganda non-sense.”
This is also completely incorrect. If you’re playing her correctly and condemning people, they should be wasting more times putting tapes away…What does that mean? Gens are not getting done nearly as fast…That’s called a Game Delay. Gen Slow Down.
I won’t comment on pig 🐽 since I have limited knowledge.
Im so grateful to you...
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3646937#Comment_3646937
For you yes, not for everyone and condemned shouldn‘t be the focus of her power. Condemned is also extremely unhealthy if you ask me.
People should be able to decide themself, how they want to play and not be forced to play one particular way. That was why I dislike her first rework and it repeats again.
Her biggest problem of her first version was; that she was weak, which made people play in an unhealthy effective way to compensate. I did not play that way and I had a lot of fun, which games should be: fun not a struggle on both sides.
Condemned her thing. It's not unhealthy for the game, just difficult to balance.
What other killer has this problem? If you play nurse, you can't do anything else but blink. If you play blight, you are supposed to use the lethal rush. Pig? Use bear traps. Wraith? Cloak and ambush. Slinger? Shot survivors. Spirit? Phase and hit survivors.
This is the power of the killer and condemned is Sadakos power. Not playing around condemned means that you ignore half her kit. If you ignore half of her kit, she will always be bad for you. Same as when you don't put bear traps on survivors as pig because you dislike the mechanic.
I'm rooting for a buff to iri tape. This would actually open up a playstyle that would be right up your alley. No condemned but unlimited map mobility.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3646900#Comment_3646900
I would agree with this and I hope behavior sees this too. If we are going to Rework a killer not once but 3 times let’s just make sure we get all the kinks and crinkles out while we are already focused on that character and it’s still fresh.
Tapes absolutely should passively condemn after a certain amount of time of holding onto them 💯 agree. Hoarding my tapes for 80% of the game is unhealthy gameplay. Spending exorbitants amount of time trying to get tapes back from multiple survivors that are hoarding them is also unhealthy and now I am wasting my time while 2 people are popping gens out left and right.
Behavior did well recently, really well at making Sadako much better. There are still just a few small adjustments that need to be addressed then she will be complete.
I just don’t want to see a quick Hotfix of “Hey we fixed the main issue….kinda…well 70% of it but hey that’s better than what she was, let’s move on.”
The job needs to be finished respectfully. 🙏🏼
Thank you friend. Now I don't feel so alone on in this court room.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3646888#Comment_3646888
once again, your taking my post very literal creating misunderstanding.
I am saying that if you have enough bloodpoint and main killer to p100, you can use the said add-on every single game because you own 1000 add-on of the same copy. As such, the add-on is base-kit because your equipping the add-on every single game.
Sadako is a game delay killer just like Pig. Both killers have a secondary objective that delay generator progress. Pig can also kill survivors with traps. I get head pops every third match. I even got a head pop against knightlight. All on twitch if you wanna see that. Pig has stronger delay on specific survivors. Sadako forces survivors to cross the map multiple times in order to insert tapes.
Sadako is not game-delay. this is another propaganda non-sense. She doesn't force survivor to anything beyond pick-up a tape because it is free counter-play with no drawback. Cammy explains this a little bit in his video between 10:00:11:00 but I will draw this on paint to explain it. You can go to a gen, pick-up a tape, do the gen, then go to a television drop the tape in, do the gen. If everyone on the team does this, you disable her condemn mechanic because TV is off for whole 70 seconds and no condemn stacks are ever build-up because survivor immediately removes any condemn build-up. Your doing a gens while simultaneously having no game-delay because locations your dropping the tape off are locations that you would be walking too because that is where generator is located.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/4QL84FBBCH7N/image.png
5 second game-delay with 1 second insert timer is laughable game-delay. It is not game-delay. it is a joke. Pig has capacity to mori survivors because Crate of Gear + Bag of Gear is over-tuned game-delay that has been produced from the buff that pig received few months ago after her nerf on deathslinger/Spirit chapter where they added 5th box to her base-kit but changed the Jigsaw box logic to include 12 jigsaw searches which has resulted in pig having rng like 1/4/4/3 where a majority of her revear bear traps are amounted to 3/4 searches. 4 boxes searches with 20+ second jigsaw is amounting to mori's in her power. Nobody complaining about this because Pig considered to be unpopular weak killer.
The complaints that have started with Pig have been recent where I made a joke build revolving around using Infectious fright, Thwack! & Face the darkness that revolved around causing survivor to scream during their jigsaw search in attempt to mori player with pig. This was not consider serious build but recently new perk was added. This perk is called ultimate weapon. It causes survivors to scream on command upon opening a locker and many players such as Otz have said that this synergy is "unhealthy". So now you can make mori-based pig builds due to added perk synergy. Player are only raising awareness to this perk synergy because Ultimate weapon is valid strong perk unlike previous iteration which included a hex totem, Thwack! which might as well be some D-tier joke perk and Infectious fright.
Despite Pig having a free mori-build, Pig is still not considered good because her chase and stealth is poor. In any case, Pig is scheduled in March to receive some changes so I guess we shall see what kind of changes are given to pig. This is huge tangent in regard to Pig which has absolutely nothing to do with Sadako's current state.
On the Ptb she had some issues, mainly:
-2 second insertion had to stay because tapes where no threat.
-auras shown to survivors where too much info.
-addons are horrible with the exception of 5 to 6
-gideon meat plant is just dumb
These where the main points of frustration.
Does address game 1 problems with Sadako. her problems are kit design related.
Im making propaganda? OK man...
No. Having the same addon every match does not make it basekit. That is absurd. Agree to disagree.
Sadako's slowdown is considerably lower than Pig's, but it is still there.
I'm glad that you don't lack a sic understanding of Pig's rbt. 1-3-4-4 is indeed extremely oppressive. You dont even need addons to get head pops. Having survivors do anything else other than searching boxes can result in a head pop if they have 4 searches. This is the true power of pig. Survivors have to make difficult decisions. That how I beat knightlight and viewers. They made the wrong decisions. You dont need any screaming related perks to accomplish this result. You dont need addons to accomplish this result. All you need is the correct Rng. Ultimate weapon is not as good on her as people say. My simple explanation: when your in 32 meters around the survivor, interrupt them yourself. Easy as that. Your there. Why are you not doing it yourself? A good pig always knows where people are. At least I do. I memorize pathing throughout the match.
Please don't bring popular content creators in this. They are also just players. I only brought in Knightlight, because you seem to give a lot of credit to these types of players. I don't. They are at the end of they day just like us. People playing this game. In my match with knightlight, he could have been any random pubs Kate. He didn't play any different way.
In terms of Sadako, I helped making her the way she is now. At least I think I did. If you want to crucify me for that, do it. I gladly take that blame on me.
If you think her base kit overall is flawed and should be completely removed, I have to say that we can stop discussing her at this point because we will never come to any agreement. I support her kit and think she's in propably the best/healthiest spot she has ever been in. Please keep in mind, that I don't think that best and healthy = strong. Nurse is not healthy for the game. 2.0 Sadako and OG Sadako where not healthy for the game. Og Sadako was a sweat fest without busted addons and 2.0 Sadako was a mindless spam fest with counterplay that was way above the input that Sadako had to do.
My proposed changes to her kit (no the ones I brought up where not problems of OG Sadako)
- 2 sec insertion of tapes
- no aura shown to survivors
- passive condemned sets in after one minute of holding a tape OR taking another tape out of a TV
- addon pass
- changes to Gideon meat plant
2 second insertion was not a problem of og Sadako. She had that base kit. Auras of TVs are a new problem since the Ptb. Her addon situation was bad back then and is bad right now. At least she doesn't have very problematic ones anymore. Just a lot of bad ones. The Gideon meat plant was problematic back then as well and passive condemned was something that was also a mechanic back then. That much is true.
I give the ball to you know because I'm tired to repeat myself. What would you propose that changes about her? You just stomped on and talked down my ideas for as long as I remember and made them look bad. What do you think should be added, since my ideas seem to be so bad from your point of view?
Last but not least, if you do not like Sadako, that is fine. I don't like Wesker. There are a ton of characters in dbd. Not everyone is to everyone's liking. I like Sadako. I fought for her. I continue to fight for her. I'm dedicated since she came out.
But I have to say, that I think that new Sadako is here to remain for a while and will not see major reworks anytime soon. She got reworked twice in 9 months. That's a lot of time investment from a dev team that is known for having little time for major changes between big releases.
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3646900#Comment_3646900
But saying that she needs more help than og Sadako is just downright wrong.
I‘ve said, that we don‘t needed those reworks, buffs would have solved the issues and that I want her old mechanics back.
I don‘t like to be forced to play for condemned, but at the same time you have to, because her mobility suffers a lot since the last two reworks (1. rework cooldowns; 2.rework Tv auras and no tape downside). Everyone turns off TVs and there is no downside. Often survivors just run around and disable my power entirely when I‘m in chase.
I never had any issues with her being weak and I never wanted her to be only strong when people don‘t know or ignore the counterplay, which is the case right now.
You will see her getting weaker with every week that passes, because she will be weak as soon as people adjust.
Actually I don‘t ask for her to be op, when I want her old version back like you said she was weaker, but at the same time you had more options and you weren‘t that limited by survivors skill. My idea would have made her condemned better and would still allow me to play like I want to.
I adored her old version, but I would lie if I said that she was fine. She was extremely unhealthy if played well.
I honestly dislike it when people differentiate in her power. Sadakos power is to condemn people. That's what she does. Playing around condemn = playing Sadako. Everything else is just Wraith and or Dredge.
Condemn is her power. Her mobility is the second ability if you ask me. TVs are like aoe bombs. You use them to blast survivors. Using them to get around the map is just the added functionality for me personally.
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3646723#Comment_3646723
She wasn‘t perfect for shure, but buffs would have brought her in a good spot and reworks weren‘t needed.
I think my idea with proximity based condemned would have made her a lot stronger and that way she would have been able to stay how she was. I‘m not against the buffs she got and others she could get in the future, but the key element how she worked, was the best back then.
Now she is mostly only a noob stomper, who his hardly dependent on the survivors being bad and playing against good survivors makes you feel powerless. Back then I didn’t feel that way, I could use her in chase, how I wanted with no real problems. Now survivors can make themself almost immune to condemned and her tps with no downside, which makes her powerless most of the match.
I don‘t think reducing a killer to being a noob stomper is good design and making her almost useless against good players at the same time.
She was fair back then, yes a lot of problems, but they could have been buffed easily to take them away.
I disagree that she is entirely a noob stomper. She can very much perform well against better survivor teams and also coordinated swf. She will not compete with your 4man comp squad. But let's be honest, 90% of the killer roster does not compete at that level. That's a balancing problem that is not Sadako specific but has to be dealt with in a game overhaul.
I dont know how you play her, but I feel anything but powerless. It's stressful for sure, but she is a lot stronger base kit than back then. I have enough experience to say that and I think most other Onryo mains can agree. Sure, she does not have addons like iridescent tape or ring drawing anymore, but that's a good thing. Both addons encouraged a very unhealthy playstyle and elevated her way above the power level she was supposed to have. She was a complete sweat fest back then if you wanted to perform well against better teams without these addons. Most of my matches had me at max stress level, because her power was lacking. Now her power level is higher. She's still a sweat fest but not as bad as before.
I have no problem being concentrated for 12 minuted. I like it. I play Amanda and Sadako for that reason. It's strategic over mechanical skill with the exception of the ambush. I like to be challenged and use strategy while playing. Both killers give me exactly that.
I completely understand that being at 100% focus for the entirety of the match is not something all people want to play and that's why I'm all for buffs. But we can't make a mori mechanic so strong, that it competes with tombstone piece Myers. That's unhealthy. The way the devs have made it, is buffing her mostly in chase. I very much appreciate that because it opens up new ways to play her and strategize around that.
She still needs tweaks. That being:
-2 second insertion
-TV auras removed
-Addon pass (for real this time)
-Changes to Gideon meat plant
(-passive condemned after a minute of holding)
Is she unplayably D-tier dumpster fire? No. Not by a long shot. Dedicated players find and found ways to make her work. We always do. She's a decent killer that needs a bit of help. Help that hopefully comes sooner than later.
But saying that she needs more help than og Sadako is just downright wrong.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3646714#Comment_3646714
Myer's power is at base-kit when he uses both add-on's. This is his default power.
FOR THE LAST TIME. SHE WAS NOT GOOD WHEN SHE GOT RELEASED LAST PATCH. I think I said that loud enough. Many players did. She's now undeniably better but still needs tweaks.
She hasn't changed between patches in significant way to alter her state. She has same problems as PTB.
If this is completely ignored, we have a killer with an alright secondary ability, good map mobility, awful chase and no slowdown. That's Pig in way worse.
The killer is suppose excel at
-> Skip hooking states(Mori)
-> Map mobility
-> Anti-loop flickering
Pig is suppose to excel at
-> Game-delay
-> Stealth
-> Ambush dash anti-loop.
She is not worse. She has different strengths. Her current none of kit is functional because condemn is ineffective vs good players showcased by Cammy game 1 vod, Her map mobility is non-existent vs good players due to Cammy's explanation 10:00-11:00 and her flickering remains ineffective since her debut to the game.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3646681#Comment_3646681
I have two types of games: Survivors struggle against condemned and I kill everyone at 5 gens or I don‘t get kills (without tunneling) and no one is near to getting condemned.
That leads me to believe that the killer is unlikely to change because killing everyone at 5 gens shows the killer is effective.
The Problem why tapes need a downside is; survivors take away two powers from her, condemned and mobility (basically everything).
My thoughts on old iteration is that tape mechanic of gaining passive condemn promoted exploit old legion-deep wound type gameplay. I do not care to elaborate what released "old legion-deep wound type gameplay" means but the player that were able to play that version will understand what i mean by that.
I know you will disagree with the last part, because you liked her second version.
I liked her second version because it allowed her to be overpowered while simultaneously being under-powered when the survivor was competent at chase/looping. I would be less concerned about the killer if the killer was a monster at the chase but current iteration excels at nothing.
You just hear what you want to hear, do I see that right?
You just pick the points that fit your argument and ignore the other points.
Myers is not at base power, when he uses addons. No killer is. Base power is base kit killer without any addons. Myers can NOT mori a survivor base kit. He needs either the purple tombstone piece (the strongest addon in dbd) or the iridescent tombstone.
Sadako is a game delay killer just like Pig. Both killers have a secondary objective that delay generator progress. Pig can also kill survivors with traps. I get head pops every third match. I even got a head pop against knightlight. All on twitch if you wanna see that. Pig has stronger delay on specific survivors. Sadako forces survivors to cross the map multiple times in order to insert tapes.
Both killers have a mori mechanic if the survivor ignores it. Pig is better in chase while Sadako is better in mobility. They work pretty similarly.
I have ~2200h on Amanda. I know what I'm talking about.
The "flickering" works alright. It's just situational, just like the ambush.
You have to know when to play m1 and when to go for your ability. The buffs to chase are really good. Especially with fingernails. I even got to outplay a shack with it. It's not bad. Not the best, but not bad.
On the Ptb she had some issues, mainly:
-2 second insertion had to stay because tapes where no threat.
-auras shown to survivors where too much info.
-addons are horrible with the exception of 5 to 6
-gideon meat plant is just dumb
These where the main points of frustration.
For some reason, they decided to nerf her from the Ptb. Many, including me, where very disappointed with these nerfs, which is why she got buffed now. The buffs are very welcome and especially the removal of the cooldown helps a lot.
I hate to repeat myself, but: she's undeniably better than what we got after the Ptb. Is she perfect now? No, there are still things that have to change.
I encourage you to read everything I read and not just pick the sentences that fit your argument.
Last but not least, do you want to see some matches? (I repeat myself because you didn't respond to me asking the first time.)
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Was it? Nobody took tapes. The only situation where passive condemned came into play is when Sadako successfully predicted the target TV and camped it. Then the survivor that was not able to insert their tape got passively condemned. Leaving them with no real counterplay. Ignoring tapes all together sure had upsides in giving Sadako full control over tvs, but it also had a huge downside. Gen speed increasing drastically. Sadako is based around survivors walking around the map, inserting tapes. If this is completely ignored, we have a killer with an alright secondary ability, good map mobility, awful chase and no slowdown. That's Pig in way worse.
She was better than good old Piggy in some regards (addons / maps) but other than that, and for the majority of players, Sadako was worse than Amanda.
The only upside to passive condemned back then (that was not unhealthy) was, that survivors didn't pick up tapes. With how fast TVs can apply condemned right now, the same interaction would be WAY too strong. If survivors completely ignore her power right now, they get condemned in a matter of 1-2 minutes max. Therefore having flat out passive condemned is bad.
Having it set in after a minute of the survivor not doing anything with their tape OR taking another tape out of a different TV sounds a lot more balanced to me.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3646504#Comment_3646504
While we are at the *sigh* part: nothing you wanted to say to my reply in regards to Myers and his addons? It's not ok to mori a survivor in less than 5 minutes if they don't make massive blunders. If you want a killer that just destroys while being rather simple, I strongly recommend Nurse. I feel like I told you that before.
if your talking about in regard to that myer's game, they did do massive blunders. that is why they lost so quickly. You said 7 minutes for first condemn mori is too fast so I showed how Myer's can do a mori in 2 minutes which is more then 3x the speed.
The game you showed me on Lery was way too far from my usual killer experience in this game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaAI6WHdyhw
You seem to just disagree with me for the sake of disagreeing. If you don't want to play Sadako, that's fine. There are a bunch of other killers you can play, that might be a lot stronger for less effort. I like how she is and will defend her and her unique and special playstyle.
I will use Cammy's footage because this first game is excellent showcase of what high MMR Sadako looks like. you cannot look at game 1 and say that the killer is good. You can continue to disagree that current sadako is good design but I will point out the flaws the killer. Cammy's explanation 10:00-11:00 for how you counter Sadako is exact explanation that I saw in the PTB for why I immediately saw this killer as dead on rival. His explanation is why Sadako cannot be a good killer in current iteration.
Myers does NOT have this power in his base kit. Truetalent uses the strongest addon combination in the entire game to do this. Combined with a build that makes it even stronger.
You compare that with Sadako? Really?
Sadako has no sich addon. No killer really does. Even Blight doesn't have any addon, that is on this level of ridiculousness.
Sadako's best addons to spread condemned are ring drawing, videotape copy, tape editing deck and remote control. That's it. The iridescent tape is not as strong as it used to be and doesn't give any quick condemned anymore.
Did you read the messages I wrote you after the Lery's match I showed you?
I told you that this match was not played well on part of the survivors and that I played really nice. A match, that showcased how strong she CAN FEEL if survivors mess up drastically. I also told you that I have way more matches against better survivors to show you. I even asked, which one you would prefer to see. Please go back to that thread to look up these matches. I posted 2 more there. If you can't find it, I will try to find the links again.
FOR THE LAST TIME. SHE WAS NOT GOOD WHEN SHE GOT RELEASED LAST PATCH. I think I said that loud enough. Many players did. She's now undeniably better but still needs tweaks.
2 second tape insertion
No auras shown to survivors
Addon pass (for real this time)
I DID SAY THAT SHE IS IN A GOOD SPOT, NOT THAT SHE IS PERRFECT BY ANY MEANS. Cammy also uses a sub optimally build. Playing Sadako = playing around condemned. Pwyf is bad. Sloppy is not good, survivors will simply ignore to heal because Sadakos chase is bad. Stbfl is way better. Surge is great because you don't want to kick gens. You have to manage your time. What he needs is more info to spread condemned more effective.
DO YOU WANT TO SEE MORE OF KY MATCHES?
If you don't trust me that I'm also going against better survivors, I played against Knightlight 2 days ago. I won. All recorded. If this players is not in the upper bracket, I don't know what to tell you.
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@CammyChameleon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3646572#Comment_3646572
Oh hey its me. Yeah I think the first game is a good showcase.
I wasn't going to leave the explanation part in between the 2 matches, but it was just everything that I've been saying summed up, so I figured it would get a point across. I am glad someone saw it <3.
I don't want to be that guy, but do you want to try a build that is completely focused on spreading condemned the most efficient way?
Your build is... not good.
Try Discordance, Stbfl, surge and hex face the darkness.
This build is amazing for people learning her and people that are already great with her.
The Perk you could change is Stbfl for corrupt if you want, but I like faster chases.
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@Skitten56 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3645726#Comment_3645726
I would be 100% fine with the 1s tape inserts if BHVR did anything to address the TV auras. Simply just making it so survivors can't see the TV auras in chase or when holding a tape would be enough for me. Without a change like this, good survivors can have so much info and control over your power.
That's is true!
One of the things has to change. Both give too much safety. But she is undeniably better now than some days ago.
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3646190#Comment_3646190
Do you know what the old numbers for passive condemned were?
It was not that good. Took a long time for one stack.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3646173#Comment_3646173
sigh.
your taking my post literal. what i am trying to say is that survivor has to purposely ignore the condemn to get mori'd before death hook. the killer reduces the effectiveness of the tapes at the very end when the survivor in death hook but this is also the point where the survivor does not care to get condemned.
Yes. I'm sorry that I took you by your word.
Survivors can be condemned before getting hooked at all. This has nothing to do with the survivor ignoring and playing badly but also the Sadako player being nice.
While we are at the *sigh* part: nothing you wanted to say to my reply in regards to Myers and his addons? It's not ok to mori a survivor in less than 5 minutes if they don't make massive blunders. If you want a killer that just destroys while being rather simple, I strongly recommend Nurse. I feel like I told you that before.
You seem to just disagree with me for the sake of disagreeing. If you don't want to play Sadako, that's fine. There are a bunch of other killers you can play, that might be a lot stronger for less effort. I like how she is and will defend her and her unique and special playstyle.
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3646176#Comment_3646176
Yes it doesn‘t have to be much, but something.
Sadako being able to interrupt people from inserting tapes is huge. This makes the tape delivery very risky. If she finds you, your team and you have a big problem.
I‘m not denying that, but the tape it self has no downside, that was what I meant.
As i said, there could be a middle ground in passive condemned after holding for over a minute.
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3646091#Comment_3646091
Disagree that would not make tapes a threat, it would only make the deliveries more difficult.
She needs something to disengage people for carrying one tape the whole round and the tv auras have to be removed for her chase.
Sadako being able to interrupt people from inserting tapes is huge. This makes the tape delivery very risky. If she finds you, your team and you have a big problem.
Maybe, to find a middle ground, a change could be: if tapes are held for longer than one minute, passive condemned sets in?
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3646091#Comment_3646091
i think your misunderstanding her current design. the mechanic behind sadako is that they do not want killer to interact with survivor's counter object. that is why they removed ability to break tapes with her m1.
the only interaction that killer has in countering tape is lock-in condemn mechanic. you need hook survivors 2 times to lock in 6 condemn stacks. This means that you can only mori survivors on death hook. that is intended game design. It is terrible and ineffective. that is why games are lasting 10-15 minutes for sadako because it physically takes 10 minutes to condemn 1 survivor. 10 minutes for 1 kill is absurd and far too long for the killer to win.
Survivors are able to win in 7-8 minutes under proper coordination and proper play. 10 minutes vs 7 minute for objectives is balance mismatch. the only way for current iteration to work is to make lock-in mechanic more aggressive because it defeats purpose of using tapes to erase condemn. in conclusion tape insert time does not need change because it is technically working as intended. it makes her condemn power ineffective which was #1 goal in this rework.
WHAT?
You can only mori survivors on death hook? You sure that I AM the one that doesnt understand her current design? I can mori survivors without having hooked them once.
Shall i record more games for you to prove you wrong? At this point, you just seem to disagree with me at every point i make just for the sake of it. If you play really well, you can get people condemned ever almost every game. Feel free to disagree with me.
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3645785#Comment_3645785
The TV auras are very important for me, because I want to tp in chase and they deny it. Not a fan of it. Same argument goes for passive condemned and they should at least test it.
I have no opinion about the 2s insert, but I think 1,5s would be fine.
Overall she is great, but after some time I believe when people adjust, she will only be a noob stomper and nothing more. I‘m still believing her OG version was better, because nobody touched her tapes, which gave her very good condemned (skill needed) and very good mobility + she had better addons. I really don‘t want condemned to be easy to archive, more limited by the skill of Sadako and not limited by the skill of survivors/too easy counterplay. I really loved her first version with one Tv condemned even when it was weak.
The 2 sec insertion enables interuption of inserting a tape with enough stbfl stacks. This si huge for predicting taget TVs and spreading condemned in clutch situations. This is the only thing needed to make tapes more of a threat, because there would actually be a risk to them.
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@KazRen said:
The only issues I have with current sadako is that survivors can put tapes in way to quickly and that all the survivor has to do is take the tape near their gen and they essentially become immune to condemned. It feels way to easy to avoid condemned.
Absolutely agree. The 2 second insertion has to come back.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3645950#Comment_3645950
i am asking for 6-7 minute mori's.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1GiwTOekmk&t=26s
you have Michael here doing mori's in 2 minutes and finishing games in less than 5 minutes but 6-7 minutes to get 1 mori. Too imbalanced. give me a break.
Thats tombstone piece, memorial Myers. Thats THE most overpowered addon combination in the game, that is widely agreed upon that it should be erased form the game. What point do you try to prove here?
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3645726#Comment_3645726
I’m happy with that too, but it needs to be 1 or the other.
True!
But the most important thing: she feels pretty decent and fun now. I'm never going to deequip fingernails now.
Zoomdako.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3645725#Comment_3645725
distortion is not a killer perk. It takes more 9-11 minute condemn survivors. holding up pressure is exaggeration to how ineffective the condemn mechanic is. I watched two games today. One from Onepumpwillies, he played match today on Eyrie of crows and it took him 11 minutes to get 2 condemn red dots. Negoose posted video today of his game on Azeroth resting place, he took around 10 minutes and his condemn kill was also on death hook. The condemn mechanic is way too slow. it needs buffs to be around 6-7 minutes for first condemn.
What!??!!
That's way too fast. What type of killer do you want? A win button? Sadako is a slowdown killer. If survivors coordinate, and interact with her tapes, games are gonna take longer. That's normal. I had a match against the "best" dbd player as piggy yesterday. They destroyed my gens and I got tbagged the entire match. Then I had 1-3-4-4 and they made 3 misplays. Instant loss for them. That also took a little bit.
Matches against killers like Sadako and Pig take their time because not everybody sits on gens the whole match.
She's pretty good now. Not perfect but good. If you don't like her, you know you can always play one of the 30+ other killers, right? If you want to get someone out in 5-7 min max, I recommend nurse. 0 counterplay if played correctly.
Sadako could use one more buff and an addon pass. Then she's in a great spot.
The one buff is : 2 second insertion
Condemned is pretty balanced now. It rewards you for holding up pressure and planing while also rewarding survivors for doing the same.
I don't even know how you want condemned to be. Like a tunneling Pyramid head?
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@Haddix said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3645728#Comment_3645728
I really did not need a one-word reply. That added nothing to the conversation, what was even the point of that? Happy to read why you disagree, but thanks for nothing.
Here's the longer version then:
Her stealth is good enough to get close. You HAVE to hide your approach if possible of course. You can't expect to just run at them and get value. Her lethality is pretty high. Playing against a good sadako is like a teamwork check. If someone misses their part, it's mostly gg for that person. If you can hold up condemned pressure, she's pretty good. I'm using a build that is entirely built around doing that. It works like a charm.
Sadako is is a pretty good spot from what I've seen in the 8 games I played yesterday. Not perfect but a good spot. She's far better than before this patch. I even outplayed the shack using a TV with fingernails.
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@TieBreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3645762#Comment_3645762
My best solo queue match tonight has been against a farming Trapper. And I still died on my way to the gate because I'm an idiot lmao
Fun times. Soloq is always a mixed bag for sure.
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@Dreigonix said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3645784#Comment_3645784
That would be boring as hell. You might as well just play Wraith or Dredge then.
Why would that be boring? Combine it with fingernails for optimal zooming.
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@jonifire said:
She feels good, but it depends a lot on the survivors. They still should remove the tv auras and make them like before. Passive condemned should be tested and the addons should be made better, some old should return.
She's pretty decent now. The only thing I would propose is 2 second insertion animation.
Everything else is acceptable. She has a lot going for her now.
We can be proud, that we got her this far.
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@CammyChameleon said:
I would just like Old Iri Tape back as the least, it was much more fun than the current one. The current on they just turn off all my TVS DDD:
It was unhealthy and encouraged slugging. Its better now. A bit too weak but better.
I'd prefer it to be : nothing can shut down tvs but no condemned happens the entire match.
This would give her unmatched map mobility at the extend of all slowdown. A fair price.
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@OrangeBear said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3645755#Comment_3645755
I would like to watch how you play Sadako.
Will do!
Just give me some time to record.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3645765#Comment_3645765
Can also play Myers and Ghostface for their stalking. Stalk in random directions and see if you get anything. You don't actually have to see ppl to get stalk. Can play twins and run around with Victor, or plant him somewhere to detect ppl near him.
Great ideas. I tried myers but failed miserably. I wanted to be a bit spooky. Normally you need a map offering to play spooky myers so I wanted to try that. Sadly I ran into a 4man (asked them) and lost my gens in record time. Meanwhile I was completely blind I feel like. The tried to get hit at windows, so that they could make the most amoind of distance possible. I lost them in seconds. Couldn't track them.
That and Sadakos miserable state (she's better now that the patch has dropped) made me switch over to Elden ring really fast.
Gonna give your ideas a try though. I heard hag should also be pretty decent.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3645723#Comment_3645723
That's why I like using a killer who's power can be utilized for at least SOME tracking. Played Artist and just shot crows at gens. Didn't even try using em for chases really.
Thats also a good idea. Thx!