CammyChameleon
CammyChameleon
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@ThatRyanB said:
One thing I'd love to dig into more here is the discussion around The Trickster's movement speed, as I think the "why" is an important piece of this.
Is there anything specific you've encountered while playing The Trickster that makes the 4.4 m/s speed feel frustrating?
I think this clip I found on Twitter Perfectly shows very clearly the problem with 4.4 Trickster. And I know some people will say it's just the map, but there are PLENTY of other maps that trickster has this exact same gameplay loop so it's not just the map I promise.
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@dbd900bach said:
Yes, it sucks that survivors hold w and yes it sucks to be at a massive disadvantage on certain loops, but Trickster is far better than most people are giving him credit for.
Patience and pacing is the key. I think the thing most people don't get is that Tricksters movement speed is directly tied to his lethality. At 4.4, he's justified in having a 6 blade injure with amazing lethality up close and at range. At 4.6, he has to be compensation nerfed back to 8 blades or even worse slowdown. Then we're back to square one and just tickling survivors.
I'll take 4.4 hold w and 6 knives to injure over 4.6 tickling everyday, any day, always.
Wacek is a a very popular Trickster main I found out about through Hens, and they're proof that Trickster was not nerfed. He's demonstrated its possible to obliterate even comp survivors in chase extremely quick. In fact, one can legitimately argue that they're stronger, more fun and more skill based than before. Previous iterations were kind of brain dead, clunky and uninteresting. This version is the most fluid and most fun to me.
I know a lot of people are going to say I'm wrong, but I hope there's genuine discussion to be had because I think people are hyperfixating on hold w and the 4.4, and ignoring everything else. Please understand what you're really asking for when suggesting Trickster needs to be 4.6. I truly believe he doesn't need to be.
I get the point you are making here however it does have 1 major issue with it. The point you are making isn't more so a point but a personal preference of yours.
Let me explain. So you don't want 4.6 trickster because you really hate the 8 knife health state. While I on the other hand really hate the survivors holding W and pre running with sprint burst and having to play catch up/walking simulator because trickster is so slow at 4.4m/s.
So then the issue becomes which one do people hate more?
Walking Hold W Simulator 4.4 6 knife health state trickster or
Fast 4.6 8 Knife Health state trickster who takes slightly more knives and can feel like tickling the survivors.
They both sound like they have their downsides yes but they are at the end of the day both preferences and I think the only way to make a decision on something like this is to gather a Poll or Community Vote on what they prefer more since it isn't much so balance wise, it's just an argument on what people prefer.
I personally think because of trickster's new movement speed being really slowed down while throwing multiple knives they could even justify 4.6m/s 6 knife health states given he gets slowed down so much while throwing or perhaps a slower throw rate.
Or the big new thing to try would be the first ever 4.5m/s 112.5% move speed killer which has never been explored before and I think Trickster would be the perfect character for. Deathslinger could also be a contender for this.
For far to long has the move speed of killers been limited to the ONLY 4.4 or 4.6 when there are no reasons it needs to only be those two speeds, there are many other options in between a whole 5% move speed -
Overall Trickster feels more fun, but he feels much weaker mainly because he is 110 now and the new map is pre run hold W central, especially with exhaustion perks.
There are 2 ways I'd buff/tweak trickster to fix this.
1.
Increase the Laceration Decay Delay as it is still incredibly fast.
Remove the speed penalty entirely when throwing consecutive knifes or heavily reduce it at least. (Alternate option is give a bit more knives base kit maybe like 40)
Remove the 44 Meter terror radius in main event, it HEAVILY nerfs his big power up mode that he has to work hard to get and just makes the info and strength you get from S tier even weaker because survivors just pre run you from even earlier as they hear you terror radius and basically makes it a MUST to have undetectable perks to play around S tier which doesn't feel great having to rely on a perk to cancel out an unnecessary downside. Esp when even killers like Blight Billy and Wesker all have a smaller terror radius than 44 meters and they are 115 movement speed killers.
2.
My second option if you don't want to have to keep fine tuning all of these values and making changes, is make Trickster 4.6m/s again. Because of the movement speed reduction introduced in this update for trickster's move speed while throwing knives you don't really need to keep him as a 110/4.4m/s killer. If he is still moving slower than the survivor while throwing knifes, it shouldn't matter how fast he moves when he is just walking after a survivor trying to catch up to get LOS on them. Cause then he is just 110 and has to spend forever doing the catch up/ walking simulator gameplay which is incredibly boring for both sides imo.
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@ThatRyanB said:
One thing I'd love to dig into more here is the discussion around The Trickster's movement speed, as I think the "why" is an important piece of this.
Is there anything specific you've encountered while playing The Trickster that makes the 4.4 m/s speed feel frustrating?
It's mainly pre-running on the survivor end. Instead of playing around loops we play around catching survivors off guard so we can actually be close range enough to chase them, but a good survivor will never let that happen, so instead it just always is Pre running at high mmr. This isn't always bad if you look at Artist for example, if she places a crow at the pallet or window you have to pre-run to the next tile, but that is okay because Artist is 115 and can help balance out all that pre running.
I think if Trickster was 115 he would be fine because he can just catch up while not using his knives to actually start/initiate a chase and then he gets properly slowed down while actually using his knives with the new movement speed reduction system he has for spamming the knives.
If he has to be reverted to 8 knife health states for him to be 115 I think that is also okay considering we have Increased Throw speed, increased reload, information on main event, better addons, and the whole style system added onto it to the point where it wouldn't even be reverting him to what he was, just that it was expanded on. That is as long as we keep the style system which we definitely should.
Just 4.4m/s never feels good for killers who don't have dash abilities. Spirit/Chucky as least have mobility like that, and ST Vecna for example can afford being 110 because he has more range that can go through walls and can injure in 1 hit, where has trickster has to abide by walls being in his way and takes 6 hits to do a health state while also being slowed down further if you keep missing. I think both Hag and Trickster should be 115 simply with how their powers work because they don't have any crazy injure through walls or dash abilities, and one could even argue death slinger.
But perhaps something that should be explored that hasn't been explored yet ever is the idea of a 4.5m/s killer or 112.5% move speed. I think a few killers could have that as a sweet spot but that's a discussion for another time. -
Overall Trickster feels more fun, but he feels much weaker mainly because he is 110 now and the new map is pre run hold W central, especially with exhaustion perks.
There are 2 ways I'd buff/tweak trickster to fix this.
1.
Increase the Laceration Decay Delay as it is still incredibly fast.
Remove the speed penalty entirely when throwing consecutive knifes or heavily reduce it at least. (Alternate option is give a bit more knives base kit maybe like 40)
Remove the 44 Meter terror radius in main event, it HEAVILY nerfs his big power up mode that he has to work hard to get and just makes the info and strength you get from S tier even weaker because survivors just pre run you from even earlier as they hear you terror radius and basically makes it a MUST to have undetectable perks to play around S tier which doesn't feel great having to rely on a perk to cancel out an unnecessary downside. Esp when even killers like Blight Billy and Wesker all have a smaller terror radius than 44 meters and they are 115 movement speed killers.
2.
My second option if you don't want to have to keep fine tuning all of these values and making changes, is make Trickster 4.6m/s again. Because of the movement speed reduction introduced in this update for trickster's move speed while throwing knives you don't really need to keep him as a 110/4.4m/s killer. If he is still moving slower than the survivor while throwing knifes, it shouldn't matter how fast he moves when he is just walking after a survivor trying to catch up to get LOS on them. Cause then he is just 110 and has to spend forever doing the catch up/ walking simulator gameplay which is incredibly boring for both sides imo. -
Make survivors with Endurance have no collision so killers can walk right through them and bring back Endurance. I'd much prefer a change like that rather than the excessive anti-tunnel changes that were planned
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@Langweilig said:
I can agree with everything except dead man switch with 50 seconds is too much and synergieses too well with pain res, but I wouldn‘t be against giving it two activations of 30 seconds after each hook, with a max stack count of 6.
I don't think it working on multiple gens would be fair, I think 40-45 s on one gen is sweet spot so you can still counter it. And that is more fair because 2 30s would be the equivalent of 60s of gen progress which would be stronger than the 50s on one.
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The changes to Off The Record and Dead Mans Switch Should Be Reverted Entirely.
Unknowns Vanishing Box was already really bad at 80% now it's unusable.
Nerfed to Dracula's Brown Add ons for No Reason as they weren't made base-kit and the ones that were were in compensation for the movement speed nerf to reduce zoning.
Still have base-kit unbreakable?
Kept the increase in filler pallets on every map spawning like 5-6 Extra pallets right next to each other so they can all be chained together making it miserable for all the weak killers and not affecting strong killers like nurse whatsoever.
Hope nerfed to 5%?
All of these changes listed above should be looked over. -
@Plu said:
Yeah he's not that good, although i don't have issues getting kills with him ( So far i have 2H on him and a 84% kill rate), i still definitely notice he has a bad time at some tiles, like you said some jungle gym completely destroy him and at times you are forced to chase as a 115 M1 killer.
He's really good at punishing mistakes, but if survivors do very little of them he can feel pretty useless (Which honestly isn't a Springtrap issue but an issue with the game itself and half the killer roster in general)
You can kinda "zone" them at Shack if they get caught at the vault + pallets to either get an easy M1 or an axe hit if they panic and anim lock themselves at the window or pallet, but good survivors usually avoid getting themselves in this situation to begin with, which means that it's usually just better to leave Shack and chase someone else.
I definetly wouldn't mind some buffs, i'm really curious to see how he would work as a full on 115 killers even with the axe on.
Yeah considering we have ranged killers like Nemesis, Dracula Hellfire, Trickster all be 115, I don't understand why Springtrap can't be considering he only has 1 shot with a longer cooldown then nemi whip and considering it's his only chase power I think it's fine with him being 115, especially if dracula can be and he has 3 different chase powers
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@Marc_123 said:
The new players get stomped if the survs have some experience.
I got some good Springtraps and they were pretty strong - if you have the axe he has a wallhack that makes mindgames impossible.
That you can claim back your axe to throw again in chase is very strong. He is for some reason (some say there are bugs) very often undetectable and fast.
Didn´t play many games but we had a dc one as he was looped until we were already at the last gen. Or all dead at 4-5 gens.
The wall hacks on the axe are only if you aren't actively trying to get rid of it. It works like Artists crows were it's visible while not repelling, but invisible while they are
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@typervader said:
that is the single worst idea ever, it would make slugging even worse because you pyscially couldnt even pick up a survivor
Just make it so he can't tp to survivors healing while downed…
Also we aren't asking a killer to get giga buffed, Freddy in his current state is still at the bottom of the list in C tier, next to piggy and clown (Piggy even better cause she has slow down with traps). While he was in D tier before with Skull Merchant Trapper Myers.
I firmly believe every killer should AT LEAST be in the B tier category if not even low A, because top tier swfs are always in the high A tier even in S with 4 instas and the right map offerings and copy paste meta builds of Shoulder The Burden.
Saying you want Freddy to remain in his still relatively weak state, is just saying you want easy mode for free lunch matches. Just admit you don't want to learn how to actually counterplay a killer power, and instead complain to get it nerfed. -
@TheSableSimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877777#Comment_3877777
Just make it so that he can't TP to them if they're being healed from the dying state.
Very obvious fix. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to think of that one.
Survivors waking up after getting downed is stupid because: 1. If they wiggle out, get flashlight saved, DS you, etc, you now have to waste time putting them back to sleep. And 2. Black Box (his Iridescent add-on) is literally unusable right now because of it.
Yeah when they get downed they just wake up and crawl out the gate xD, the add on is a literal joke
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I think a fix to my comment, to prevent slugging is simple.
After the survivor is picked up/wiggles free from flash save/sabo, they instantly get put back to sleep. That way freddy can still use his power and it's not being punished for a game mechanic outside of his control.
While they are on the ground however, they remain awake. -
@Emeal said:
Good point, but this would make the perk 1/3 more powerful, the devs would have to look into the balance of it.
I think Rapid Brutality is already strong enough, even if its a glass half full/ half empty situation.This is true. I think however it's in a state that's already kind of weak, so it turning into something more powerful than the majority of meta perks is highly unlikely.
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I think it should honestly be a brown offering and PLEASE make it so it doesn't not work if their are four of the same offering, it just makes the SWF that wants to abuse it even stronger.
Plus also, I watch a streamer getting stream sniped, and they got 3 eyrie crow offerings. They lost the match as killer cause eyrie of crow.
Then the next match it was the SAME team, and someone in chat said to bring a sac ward. Well they were in his stream still and just brought for eyrie crow offerings so it couldn't be cancelled.
Map design is DBD's biggest issue right now and THIS is a change we would like to have until a potentail rework. -
@RootsofDredge said:
Completely agree.
People constantly complain about hellfire saying it's impossible to dodge. I've had survivors dodge it no problem. And on top of being easy to dodge, it can't go through walls like Pyramid Head's punishment.
Bat form is still worse spirit with a garbage teleport.
Literally no point in using wolf form without hug tech.
If one genuinely thinks Dracula is OP I suggest they stop playing for mental health reasons. They're going to have a heart attack when they face Nurse, Spirit, or Blight.
Exactly I asked a few Comp player streamers what they thought, and the response was basically
"There are so many other killers that are just… way better. They should leave Dracula alone, he's fine as is, no need to bring him back to B tier" -
@Rokku_Rorru said:
That's really not true at all, this change massively buffs his 4v1 which it's ignorant to say it doesn't, the 2.5second cd also allows him to use his powers in the 1v1 more often too.
The wolf form losing hug tech makes sense but it doesnt when they wont remove it off other killers like wesker and billy LMAO, seems they just want it to be used for tracking especially now with the shapeshift being fasterWhat I am saying is his powers being able to be used more often isn't due to the fact that he has a shorter shapeshift cooldown, it's the fact that the specific cooldowns on the actual forms are inherently short.
The 1v1 remains unchanged in this aspect same as before, if you did fly over the pallet, smart survivors would just stay and the pallet and force you to break it, you would just be stuck flying their for an extra 3 seconds or so waiting to swap forms before you can actually do any sort of health state damage.
With only 2 forms being able to do any sort of attack that does damage, and 1 of them (the wolf) is massively underpowered, having a shorter shapeshift cooldown is almost required to not feel like a waiting simulator.
I'd argue more that the 4v1 isn't buffed because of the cooldown changed, it's buffed because of the now very fast bat form, and very fast base kit teleport speed that lets him get across the map quickly after hooking someone. Although that is deserved to be the trade off for a form that can do now physical damage.
I think the shapeshift cooldown is perfect as is, however I wish they gave some compensation to the wolf form instead of bat form since it was already pretty ok. (Maybe add the ability to see blood, and the fast TP speed was good change). -
@NotJared said:
After a few days of playing with and against the buffed Shapeshift cooldown, I think I can safely say that I feel Bat is waaaaaaay overtuned now. The cooldown was honestly pretty fine and balanced before the buff.
Shapeshift NEEDS a cooldown, thanks to Bat's speed and ability to completely ignore vaults and pallets. With the new buffs, Dracula can shapeshift, hop over a pallet or window, and turn back before Survivors get a chance to run anywhere.
It's as if Spirit's cooldown was completely removed AND she could walk through vault points - there's just nothing Survivors can do to get between loops, he is instantly on top of Survivors in seconds.
I think either Shapeshift needs its original cooldown back, or leaving Bat form needs a bigger slowdown to allow for more counterplay.
Thing you are missing here, is that the Shapeshift cooldown wont change a part of that at all, it's a fundamental part of the bat's power. The whole difference for him being able to do that extra stuff compared to spirit is the fact that survivors CAN see him entirely and get a 48 meter notice when he is coming. It's not like spirit where it's a 50/50 guessing game.
As someone who has played A LOT as him, and against him, he does perfectly fine as a Low-mid A tier killer in high elo.
The situations you are talking about where "turn back before survivors get a chance to run anywhere" is simply just the survivor playing really really poorly. If he does just that, you DONT want to run away from the pallet/loop because yeah he will catch up to you.
In testing no matter the addon if you hug the pallet when he tries to do this, he can't body block you when he switches, and you have enough time to vault the pallet to the otherside while he transforms. This works both with and without resilience. If you play it correctly he has to end up breaking the pallet just like every other killer does (besides nurse ofc).
You can also play this same way with windows which is a bit harder since it's thinner, but you just have to vault when he transforms and can even do it early by predicting him.
Trying to get a killer nerfed because you don't know the counterplay + haven't actually gone into customs to test this stuff out is bad for game suggestions.
PLUS MY OTHER POINT
He could do this with the 5 second shapeshift cooldown AND before the bat buffs, because I was already doing this on Dracula. If you shape shift to fly over, it's not going to change the outcome cause of 2 small seconds, survivors will still not have enough time to get to another loop, and if they go to far from the pallet you can body block them as they double back, so the safest play was to just stay at the loop.
Generally going in the open against many killers with speed, like blight, nurse, spirit, chucky, huntress, trickster, bubba, billy. Results in them/or their projectiles to catch up down you.
It's just how some killers work, doesn't make them OP (except nurse)."A chance to run anywhere" as if they had the chance to run anywhere when the bat followed you and you still didn't double back.
Whether 2.5 seconds or 4.5 with add on, or 5 seconds, the bat will always catch up to you and switch if you just don't play well and actually play around the loop like you are supposed to with this killer. -
@ChaosWam said:
We're also forgetting it doesn't fix what people hated about it, being in combination with Pain Res and Grim Embrace.
And even with those combos it's still not that good xD
I also think the new speed perk not deactivating on an injury is insane, cause it will have almost no counterplay for killers -
@mizark3 said:
Singularity was amazing before, and he arguably is oppressive now. The only counter is people slowing themselves down to pre-pickup EMPs, which is fine since it takes a mere 3s to apply another tag on them. If EMP range gets nerfed, then they might as well revert the 95% boxes to autocomplete again.
If a Singularity consistently is losing because people are hopping off gens, then the Singularity never had the skill to win in the first place. They are literally getting 2 people off gens for the price of one, and the re-tag is so easy that it is only a benefit.
I mean if that were the case though, of it being beneficial having 2 people of gens, then people taking body blocks wouldn't be so strong to prevent a teammate going down early. It just doesn't work like that though, 2 people can still be on gens and one is helping and that is plenty of pressure. The issue now is it's to easy to swap who goes out to EMP the friend and who goes back on the gen because they barely have to get close.
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I agree with all of this, His Wolf form just feels to punishing and could use some love
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I think it's more like Vecna, where the skeletons come up almost instantly, if you watch in his hand, he has a ball of fire and I use that to dodge. Honestly, I haven't been hit by it once yet except for taking hits (or trying to) for a teammate.
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My Personal Suggestions for Unknown As A P100 Unknown Player
Weakened State Duration Increased From 10 seconds, to 12.5, or possibly even 15. (Right now he suffers the same issue that trickster did after his initial rework where the 10 second laceration was just to few for indoor maps. Unknown is the same, however it's outdoor maps that effect him more, which is much more prominent since most maps are outdoors)
When UVX Travels through a survivor it should weaken them, however it should not cause a health state. (This will reward a direct shot that is most likely harder to hit, but also allow it to feel more impactful.
Other than that I think he is pretty cool, some of his green addons are a bit repetitive like multiple exhaustion add ons and the foot print add on just does what the 50% cooldown reduction on pallet break add on does, but better. I think one of these could be reworked into giving him one extra clone on the map as a green add on. That would be much more interesting. Or rework the purple exhaustion add on to that because honestly that one is really bad.
#Please stop making blindness and exhaustion addons purple rarity/or at all because they just aren't very useful and if you do need them there are a lot of perks that help with it now. -
@gatkins121 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3680858#Comment_3680858
just had a game.... guys dropped clones by both exit gates as im looking for hatch and then closed it. ok tell me more about how these clone placements aren't OP. leave them by hooked survivors. instant tele. it's bull
First off, clones can't be within 16 meters of a hooked survivor, you are fine. Secondly being able to patrol exit gates isn't OP XD, you can literally remove them in a 3 second animation. You can't even do that verse Singularity and he's not OP. he can replace them instantly and have multiple there near hooks and near gens and near gates.
Honestly not to be that guy but I've had no issues looping him, weakened goes away really quickly and the projectile is easy to dodge. Just remove his clones while he's carrying someone, it's pretty easy.
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After playing well over 150 Matches as this killer....
I am very frustrated.
The amount of effort I have put into learning him with over 5k hours just isn't working. Which is shocking since even singularity felt better than this.
His power is just SUPER unrewarding and easy to get rid of, but only specifically against good survivors.
Nearly every chase I play goes like this. I get them weakened, try to align the next shot, they dodge, I wait out the dodge, then I shoot and their weakened goes away right before I hit them. There just simply isn't enough time, and the fact that they keep removing the weakened around walls after looking away, and the fact that it goes away in just 10 seconds is insane.
It's suffering the same fate as release rework trickster with the 10 second laceration timer. There just simply isn't enough time to follow up another shot.
I think the best fix without making him overpowered would be to make it take 15 seconds to remove weakened. Just like how trickster had the laceration increase to 15 seconds from 10, and it really helped a lot!
Other than this, he is really fun to play as the trick shots are nice! Survivors are just mostly not hugging walls anymore though so those are becoming pretty rare. He may suffer the same fate as pig where they think he will be too strong and not get the buffs he deserves.
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Ok after playing him a lot more, so far, he is EXTREMELY Frustrating Vs. Good Survivors.
Let me break down the math.
This is all assuming you are in the open, and the survivor is looking right at you the second you weaken them.
10 Seconds to Remove Weakened
6 second power cooldown
2 Second to pull out the UVX once cooldown is done
1 second travel + detonation delay.
This means that you have 1 Second to try and line it up, which is why so many of the shots miss because it's like huntress. YOU NEED TO WAIT OUT THE DODGE. But you simply can't, there just isn't enough time.
Plus the fact that after the survivor looks away, it CONTINUES to regress the weakened effect even after looking away for like 2-3 seconds, it's just dumb.
My suggestions: Increase the Weakened removal to 15 seconds default
That's it. Just this tiny buff would give people time to actually line up. So far survivors aren't even worried about getting weakened because they can do it from WAY further than 16 meters now (Which I am not sure if that's a bug or not cause it was not the case in the PTB and I didn't see any notes).
Once they remove weakened they don't even look back at me because they know they are safe. We should be rewarded for using the power, not punished.
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Yeah it's overkill literally just using one perk out of the 16 possible on a fully Team (Botany) will counter the killers one sloppy perk AND still heal 25% faster afterwards.
This change is just not it.
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I actually think she doesn't need more Hatchets, I think 5 is fine.
The movement speed is what is needed for it to really help with her map dependency cause indoor maps they round corners left and right and this will help her keep up.
The 10% faster basekit is nice as well for this.
Extra ammo though is too much.
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@idefinitelyloveDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3652440#Comment_3652440
i disagree with this, what if people want to run a blast mine / flashbang squad or something similar, or there's a tome that requires a certain perk to be used? so people should just disband their party if they want to use these duplicate perks for these reasons? i feel this is unreasonable. i know a multi-adren squad sucks to go against. believe me, i've faced my fair share. but restricting duplicate perks if you're in a party feels like the wrong way to go about it, imo. there are so many reasons a swf would run duplicate perks, having fun with friends is one of them. i do not want to disencourage people having fun in groups both as survivor (it would mean i would be punished the same way when i play with friends) and as killer (i do not mind flashbang save squads, they throw the game for me and make my life easier) :)
I fear without this change adrenaline will just have no speed boost, or no health state
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
I’m sorry but didn’t they also buff some weaker Killers in the same update?
I don’t think we should keep Sloppy the way it is, instead Killers should be buffed to be less dependent on it.
It only added 4 seconds to the heal timer though it makes no sense to nerf it this way.
Like even nerfing it half adding 2 seconds would still be bad.
This perk was just nice for time, not keeping everyone injured. Now it has neither.
Plus Trapper/Freddy/Myers didn't get buffed so just because they buffed killers doesn't mean this change is good for everyone.
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@fussy said:
I completely agree with this. The only way Adren could stay as it is – if SWF won't be able bring same perks.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3640517#Comment_3640517
My suggestion for this was if you are in a Party, you can't have any duplicate perks, as we see that works in Comp dbd for balancing.
However to make it not miserable for Solo Q, they are not limited to their perks since they loaded in individually.
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Honestly Survivors Ask for A Secondary Objective to do other then Gens. Then Behavior adds them with Killers like SM, Singularity, Alien, Dredge, Wesker. Then the survivors continue to ignore the objectives given and treat them like they are optional and choose to rush gens. Then they mostly lose because they ignored the objective of the killers power.
Aka Survivors ask for it, don't use it, lose. Then don't even try to learn it AT ALL. I lose a lot of my Duo Queue games because my two other teammates don't think the killers power is needed to interact with. Then they all come here asking for nerfs instead of trying to learn.
Perhaps more info on killers could be given, but it is given in the patch notes that nobody reads I guess.
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Yeah I made several videos and we've had people leave over 300 messages of Feedback for her, but nothing mattered, they just didn't listen.
As much as I am excited for this new killer coming up, I just know Onryo will be left forgotten and Unrefined just like they did with Trickster.
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@SOULWARRIOR71K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3648009#Comment_3648009
The majority of games that take place are not 4 man swfs. An “average team” is not representative of the average game.
This is not a reason to Buff SWFs by nerfing a killer down to solo q level. That's not how to balance a game. The issue is not with the killer.
SWFs will always rule this games meta, it's 4 players vs 1.
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@Princesse_nico said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3649082#Comment_3649082
Also the iri video tape that removes condem, it so useless! She needs add ons adjustment too
I dont understand how they arent thinking of it
Praying on a patch tomorrow with the new Valentine Skins, if there isn't one, then we prob aren't getting anything for years. Cause a HUGE ptb is coming the following Tuesday.
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Maybe if they make it so patch notes pop up readily available so players actually have to read it. A lot of people don't even know SM was changed from release it's actually insane how out of tune some players are.
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What's the point of Tape Editing Deck spawning everyone with a tape when they don't build passive Condemn anymore? Even her add on designs require passive condemn to be useful!
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@HerInfernalMajesty said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3648361#Comment_3648361
Yeah that’s very true! It just feels broken that once the Killer gets two kills then that’s pretty much the match. Not always, but often.
If the killer is getting two kills though they've earned that, it's not broken, just the survivors didn't play well enough.
Punishing either side for doing the objective is bad imo.
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She's B Tier at best Imo, just turn off her drones in chase for you friends. It's just like Knight where your healthy friend takes the guard aggro for you in chase.
Plus the new Visual Effects that turn white so you know you can't be scanned has been so much nicer to play against her.
No need to change another killer who isn't Problematic anymore and is in the the lower tiers, sure she's annoying but so is legion. Doesn't mean they both need to be nerfed...
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@appleas said:
After looking at two content creators play Sadako without focusing heavily on Condemned and taking the rework of Iri tape into account, I am beginning to think devs are trying to push players to play Sadako as a high map mobility hit and run Killer especially with Iri Video Tape and Bloody Fingernails together.
With the basekit buff to the Post Projection movement speed, Sadako can cover a lot of distance in a very short period of time after teleporting. For Sadako players who know which direction to path after coming out of the television, Survivors don't have a lot of time to make it to a pallet or vault before getting hit if they are near a television. Keep up enough of such hits and they eventually transition into downs.
This strategy of course has an rng aspect of being map dependant. For maps with lots of clutter/multiple floors, the televisions may spawn very far away from the gens/spawn below a gen on the 2nd floor.
I might try this playstyle for a bit instead of making Condemned the main focus of the build
Iri tape is bad because they can turn off all your TVs for way longer and you can't punish them cause no way to build condemn, so they can turn off 6 of them and be safe forever.
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Asking for too much I think, we don't need nerfs to more killers/perks, we need more changes to maps preferably. Survivors are at a perfect strength arguably more so with Insta Heals and BNPs still being 22.5 second time saver.
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There is literally no way this isn't satire right? This is probably the worst list of changes I have ever seen.
Background player already one of the strongest survivor perks rn, making Flashbangs saves and pallet saves nearly free.
Never bring back Old MFT it was way to Overpowered and made it harder to balance maps. Plus it was infinite.
Pain res is the most balanced perk in the game rewarding not tunneling.
Pop is only 30% of current progress, so kicking a 50% gen is ALREADY 15% regression since 30% of 50% is 15. So Pop def doesn't need any changes.
Base kit unbreakable is a horrible idea that never made it past PTB because of how much it ruined the overall experience for both sides and encouraged slugging everyone.
Being able to remake a pallet 3 times.... that has to be a joke....
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Please Behavior, with 5 killer tweaks coming up and a whole new Chapter on top of that, please give Onryo some final touches. I don't want her to get forgotten and this week is probably the last chance we will get to fix her up since the PTB is next week.
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@ChaosWam said:
Here's my thoughts post-patch:
She still has very little condemned pressure if survivors know how to touch and hoard tapes.
Her lullaby removes her stealth still.
TVs having an aura is a problem, or at least the size of the auras is a big contributor.
Add-ons still need a lot of love, Iridescent Tape needing a complete rework and the current effect put in a brown addon for meme builds.
Everything else does feel good, don't get me wrong, but Sadako's biggest weakness will always be the M1 curse. If she doesn't get a chase power (which I doubt we'll get a balanced one) then consider removing the lullaby. She's loud when she manifests and gives enough of a tell with that sound (which could be shown as a lullaby instead of the constant one) and her visual effects on approach so at the very least she has a stealth edge.
Yesss Iri tape should be the meme add on. Perhaps make Mothers Mirror Base kit, and then make Iri tapes effect take that place, and then completely rework Iri Tape.
Also Reikos What to 50% Please!
- 2 Second Tape Insertion
- No TV Aruas
- Passive Condemn (This is really needed since all 4 survivors grab a tape at the start to just work on their gen with no pressure at all. Removes mobility, and any sort of slow down pressure that she has cause no condemn for 70 seconds. )
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@SOULWARRIOR71K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3647948#Comment_3647948
B tier based on what? Getting more than 1 or 2 out against her is extremely rare from what I’ve seen. And that’s whether or not people give up. The drop drone get free injure or force them to leave loop and get free injure, is very effective and easy to win with.
Bruh free Inure means nothing in DBD.
Legion and Plague do it WAY better and WAY faster. Legion is the weaker variant, and plague is the stronger variant with actual anti loop.
Also the only reason it's rare to have 1 or 2 out is because survivors rage quit so often against her for no reason now.
When I have a full team and nobody DC's we get out every time. She is B Tier based on how she plays against the average team who doesn't DC. We aren't some sweatlords.
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PLEASE BEHAVIOR DO NOT DO THIS.
If anything remove the vault speed from Resilience because then you can balance each window a lot more consistently.
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@WeaverReaver42 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3647849#Comment_3647849
The second to last part is so important to emphasize to me. imagine more changes like what we just got for hillbilly (Thank you behavior), but for other killers. Imagine a pyramid head with good addons, a freddy that's fun to play(I know it's a problem with licensing, but let a poor guy dream), or heck even a myers that doesn't run out of their power for the rest of the match and can't instakill you.
Exactly, if a killer isn't Problematic or Weak, don't change them. No need to be nerfing Skull Merchant when she's a B Tier Killer at best...
Only reason she has a high kill rate is because EVERYONE dcs against her, my teammates never stay, she's not even that bad anymore.
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@Skitten56 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3647848#Comment_3647848
The way it is now with TV auras visible, easy to shut off, and easy to return tapes, this is no good. It's easy to just disable her power, and with the current iri addon that means when a survivor shuts off a TV it's gone for 84 seconds. 84 seconds!
If you don't plan on fixing this issue where survivors can counter Sadako's power too easily, then this addon at least needs a change in the other direction. Make the TVs that are shutoff come back 20% sooner.
Completely agree with you. BHVR should absolutely fix this by hiding TV auras with the add-on. There is no threat of condemn so they really don't need the TV auras. But if BHVR doesn't want to fix this in a smart way, they 100% need to have the TVs come back 100% sooner rather than it be a debuff as you suggested.
Iri-tape is actually a great add-on for the most part which provides a fun way to augment her power. A lot of Onryo mains just seem to be sleeping on it since it removes any condemn threat and they are less interested in the mobility aspect of her kit. The only issue is that a smart and skilled team can easily abuse you running this add-on to completely deny your power as mentioned.
I think it's a great fun add on! But it should be the meme tier add on and be brown. I want a powerful pink add on that's worth farming.
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Oh also her is a match as Survivor this time showing why she is so easy to counter now. https://youtu.be/UCm3c5d2tL8