radiantHero23
radiantHero23
About
- Username
- radiantHero23
- Joined
- Visits
- 4,891
- Last Active
Comments
-
@Hexling said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/409396/the-state-of-shift-w-in-dead-by-daylight
Its because a lot of the new maps have really unsafe loops and you can waste more time by holding w then by trying to play around a unsafe loop and going down even faster. Nostromo, Toba, Greenville, and a lot of the new map reworks are just have really bad gyms or bad rng so its usually just safer to shift w to a window or just forward especially with the design of killers now being anti loop most of the time. That on top of the game having a huge uptick in tunneling is also a problem.
But its also done on:
- Badham
- All McMillan
- All Autohaven wreckers
- All Coldwind
- Chapel
- Asylum
These maps have very strong structures and set ups. Despite this, shift w is really popular on these maps as well.
-
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3684329#Comment_3684329
It really comes down to Remnant mindgames, which do have SOME counterplay. You can fake and bait a TP, which you can't really do with SM. However, it still promotes holding W.
Nightfall is really the thing I have the most issue with.
Remnant can be countered by teammates running into it, shift w or mindgames. Thats counterplay.
"Promoting shift w" is sadly just a joke to me at this point. Its done against every killer if possible. It does not depend on the power "leaving no other choice" or not. I play Pig = shift w. I play Sadako = shift w. I play Legion = shift w. I play Xeno = shift w.
Its done mainly because its simple and incredibly effective.
Nightfall as survivor is annoying to deal with for sure. As killer though, its super nice to play around with. When looking at characters and perks, both sides have to be taken into consideration.
DH was super fun to use back then. Playing against it was one of the most infuriating things this game has ever created.
-
@ferx said:
As a someone who plays both side and top MMR on both I genuinely think this game is not playable as a survivor anymore (at least If you don't play as squad). The killers I'm facing with something beyond sweaty&toxic it's far beyond definable.
The doctor I played against today face camped 2 people (a.k.a shocking the hook continually without increasing the camping bar) until survivor dies after that he slugged other two to death going back and forth as he got over them for no reason... This is only one game, my all survivor games are like this, extremely tryhard tunneling with p100 nurses/blights like there is money prize on the game or face camp with killers who still have ability to do it.
Playing as a survivor is nothing but depressing and sad especially if you play solo or duo. I don't know if it's about my region but DBD I play is literally something different than from the DBD played by popular DBD content creators. It feels like the killers I'm playing against are in the competition of making the match as miserable as possible for the survivors for no reason.
I love DBD but it's so sad I can't even play one proper enjoyable match with my friend without getting left on the ground for 5 minutes or getting tunneled by P100 nurse. Additionally they insult survivors in end game chat after all things they did and reports literally do nothing... These all things I wrote happen almost every match even though I don't do the slightest disrespectful thing towards to killer.
How do you know your "high mmr"?
Im curious.
-
@Atsuka_Anarchy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3684233#Comment_3684233
The Aura build, yeah. It’s become my favorite build for awhile now. NC is the one thing that is often spoken about by survivors post-game “why NC?” It helps more than people think, I like to apply constant pressure and injuring survivors and keeping them injured so I can pick them off one by one is a productive way of sealing the game.
Pig is the only stealth killer they has no costs to being stealth at will and the most common thing is see with NC is that survivors like to heal under hook or in a DZ where I can injure healing survivor(s) to keep on the pressure and keep them injured. It has literally helped me deal so many games because everyone is injured and the injured voices let’s me catch someone off-guard.
I think I’ve been jump scaring a lot more than I thought I would tonight lol
Good to hear!
-
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3683685#Comment_3683685
I do not DC against them, actually. I said I'd RATHER go next and that I don't blame people for doing so.
And yes, I have complained about Dredge, especially as an accessibility monster, since he came out. He really hurts my eyes when I play against him. His power is rather boring and promotes poor gameplay.
The difference is the degrees of magnitude.
Why is Dredge boring and promotes poor gameplay? If this is only about forcing people into the remnant on small loops, then i dont know what to tell you.
You of course can have your opinion, but I think and experienced, that Dredge has a lot of deph. Both for a survivor and killer perspective.
-
@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3684262#Comment_3684262
Singularity is not easy to play against, lol.
I dont know why people think that EMPs being easily available makes the whole Killer easy to play against. Singularity is a really strong Killer, the only issue is that the effort you put into playing him does not come close to the outcome. If you dont REALLY REALLY like him and play him because he is the most fun Killer for you, there is 0 point in playing him because every Killer who is better than SIngularity requires less effort.
Sure, there are some tweaks which can be done (IMO the biggest issue is that you dont have a power if 5% of the Survivor are hidden by an object), but I would be really careful to change EMPs. Because if there is no EMP available or nobody next to you has one, Singularity is really oppressive in chase while constantly teleporting on you.
I have more success sluggin people 24/7 than hooking them.
Hooking destroys Hux´s momentum in many ways:
- Destroys slipstream.
- Have to pick up.
- have to carry to hook.
- hook animation.
- have to walk away to use my power again. Otherwise I suffer from a massive penalty on movement and any action.
- Next chase is worse because one slipstream got destroyed when hooking.
All of this makes slugging with perks like third seal, knock out, sloppy and / or nurses way more efficient for the Singularity - player.
It also makes the gameplay for survivors extremely unfun and unhealthy overall.
I think this needs to be adressed. Hooking should not punish you harder than the reward of slugging. This only leads to Sadakos original problem with Ring drawing.
-
@ImWinston said:
after 100 games with camping, slugging and tunneler killers.... it's their way of letting off steam (I guess)
in recent times toxic/bullying behavior on the part of killers is more common than survivors (my experience)
Cant say the same from my experience.
The worse your killer / build, the worse the attitude of people gets. Some will get downright nasty if they see you dont run meta.
-
@SoGo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3684261#Comment_3684261
Its the same with the devs, too.
They put out a good killer perk:
KILLER TOO OP NERF ASAP!!!
They put out a good survivor perk:
SURVIVOR OP I CANT KILL ANYONE!!!!
But yeah, It feels rough.
I played as a jumscare Myers multiple times, sometimes the survivors are bad, and sometimes they shame me fro being bad.
Like, you can be grateful I didn't bring Infinite Tombstone.
Some people are just built this way. They see everything as negative. They cant have nice things.
Its truly a shame. Games are supposed to be a form of relieve from the stressful world outside. Why do so many people want the outside to be the norm in something that is supposed to make one happy?
-
@TheycallmeLix said:
I’ve been playing a lot of Bubba lately with the BP build and trying to hook everyone 2x but why do most survivors just tbag me so much at the exit gate like tf is your problem man? I’m not camping/slugging or BMing or using 4x slowdown perks, I’m just here having fun and grinding the bloodpoints. And it doesn’t help that most of them say ez in endgame chat 😂 btw if you see a handsome Bubba with his purple suit and letting you escape, you are totally welcome ❤️
I feel bad for you. The feedback in dbd on both ends can be very discouraging. Especially when you out of your way to be nice.
As a seasoned Pig main, i definitely understand your struggle.
Im currently experimenting with weird and unusual builds because I feel super burned out. The only feedback I get is either:
- im bad at the game for trying to win
- I should use strong stuff
At the end of the day, you cant please anybody. You should try to find your own fun, whatever that may look like.
Some people will dislike you for literally looking at them, some for you bringing strong sutff, some for you not bringing strong stuff and some just out of spite because they had a bad day and want to let it out on an anonymous person online.
I mostly respond to these people:
"If you have to let off some steam, do it. I can take it. If it help you out, thats fine with me."
Just dont go too far.
-
@OneGoodBoyDemo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3683992#Comment_3683992
Apart from the matches where the survivors committed suicide the rest were good survivors, I don't need to lie about that.
You are also free to try matches with her if you want and see the results.
" Do you feel 6 games is a good pool to draw your conclusion from?"
I've been playing this game for 5 years now so I believe I have some idea of what I'm talking about and I'm sure with conviction that SM is a terrible killer design.
I agree, that her design needs improvements.
Im just sick of all the hate train with no solution.
All I see are people that complain endlessly without actually providint constructive feedback on how she could be imporved.
Maybe we should all go to the feedback section and make a post to collect ideas on how to change her in a healthy way. With all the negativity and almost non - existing ideas for changes, im not suprised that the reworks she had are still flawed. The devs dont know how to fix her because they dont get constructive input on how to do so.
I hope im wrong.
-
@not_Queef said:
Just because a whole bunch of noobs are keeping his killrate down, doesn't mean he's weak.
A good Singularity is one of the most oppressive things in the game.
And how many of these do you see?
The Singularity in DBD is a product that is sold to customers. If the product doesnt sell well, there need to be adjustments to make the product more interesting in comparison to other products.
Right now, as others have pointed out already, the Singularity feels horrible to play as for a majority of players. This results in a low kill rate and an even lower pick rate. This definitely justifies changes.
Its not as with Nurse, where the killer is hard for like 4-5 matches and then becomes a literal win - machine for a majority of public matches. Singularity gets destroyed by a variety of aspects in the game that can be completely out of its control. Every match bringing a new problem to the table.
- Maps. Especially indoor ones.
- Coordination with EMPs from survivors, completely negating the power for a majority of the match.
- Cameras not locking on survivors that are clearly visible.
- A sucessive tp mostly only granting a faster pallet instead of a hit due to no speed (soma family photo)
- Console controls are awful.
- Trying to tp AWAY fom a hooked survivor providing a massive movement- and action cooldown.
Its not the 3rd or 4th game that will fix this. Its not even the 50th game.
Singulariy is way too demanding and punishing for a huge majority of the playerbase.
Im not saying that Hux should get the Sadako 2.0 treatment, where the killer becomes waaaaay too easy to play as and waaaay too hard to play against, but some qualtiy of life adjustments for the above mentioned problems would really help out to fix the gap.
Its not healthy in my opinion, that a killer is more successful slugging survivors, because their power (slipstream) then remains more available to them rather than hooking.
-
@Atsuka_Anarchy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3683661#Comment_3683661
I’m using the all-seeing build since it fits my play style of being all over the map applying constant pressure.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/3BOW5GDHE3I2/img-8688.jpeg
The other build I’ve been experimenting with is the 0 TR and exposed build during chases. Dark Devotion + Furtive Chase + Nemesis + Hubris = Massive confusion.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/RX76UQMR4ZUN/img-8689.jpeg
Sir Gideo Ofnir approves the first build.
-
@Marc_go_solo said:
Looking at this list, I have a vastly different experience. Not saying I'm right or wrong, but it's all subjective in the end.
What does happen as time goes on is - because of the finite possibilities - killers will start becoming variants of existing killers, and some even start adapting a few powers at once. The Unknown is a classic example of that. Repetition can become rather dreary.
However, if I were to make a list of Killers I like facing, based upon the way you have done, this would be mine:
The Nurse👍
The Shape👍
The Hag👎
The Doctor👍
The Huntress👍
The Cannibal👍
The Nightmare👍
The Pig👎
The Clown👎
The Spirit👎
The Legion👎
The Plague👎
The Ghost Face👎
The Demogorgon👍
The Oni👍
The Deathslinger👍
The Executioner👍
The Blight👍
The Twins👎
The Trickster👎
The Nemesis👍
The Cenobite👎
The Artist👍
The Onryō👍
The Dredge👍
The Mastermind👍
The Knight👍
The Skull Merchant👎
The Singularity👍
The Xenomorph👍
The Good Guy👍
The Unknown👍
Basically, whether somebody enjoys a killer or not is much more down to personal experience than anything to do with quality. Some may think similar to myself and other may be more inclined to agree with you. That's absolutely fine, but it's not a reflection on objective quality.
@Unusedkillername said:
Before anyone says anything I am a killer main and I have played this game for years and witnessed the changes made to it in real time.
I feel the need to clarify that because some players can get so defensive if you suggest even something on one side of this game needs any form of change but I honestly believe the new killers added to the game are making the survivor experience worse. Some people may instead point to the broken things that have been available on the survivor role throughout the years and the loss of them is why some people are complaining. (the big things I'm thinking about are very old DS, Circle of Healing and Dead Hard) but I don't think that's it i think its just coincided with a decline in killer quality.
So I took a snippet of all the chapters on the wiki and on instinct ticked all the chapters with killers I don't mind playing against and crossed the ones I don't like.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/DFS05PXZWENP/image.png
There are one or two I would change upon further reflection but these were all on instinct and based on their current state.
I made a post not too long ago on this same topic but because I did not clarify enough for some people I AM A KILLER PLAYER WITH THE -REPS PRE CROSSPLAY ON A STEAM PROFILE TO PROVE IT. I saw people assuming what my takes were saying that I only wanted the game to be easier for suv ect.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/SCEXXWQNVNJ1/comments-png.png
Don't take this as an attack on your role. I play it I have since 2017.
The new killers are not as fun to run as the older ones its nothing about them being strong or weak. Hillbilly is incredibly fun to run, he is also very powerful. Some killers (and it goes to survivors as well but it is mostly killers right now from my experience) on these forums need to grow out of the habit of assuming every player who dares ask for something to be changed to make survivor better is just trying to sabotage the killer role altogether.
Sorry if this post is written in a confrontational and ranty manner but I don't want to have to explain some of these things to comments that are so keen on assuming anything typed on the forums must be written from the "other" side if it doesn't immediately conform to their ideas about the game.
As stated, this comes down to personal taste. My list would propably also look very different.
It is really hard to say that something is objectively bad, because there are no standards to compare it to. The only standards are very subjective, making a discussion very difficult.
I love playing against Sadako and Pig as well as Xenomorph.
I dont like playing Wesker.
Each their own taste. The best that can be done is to look at the specific stats in terms of how much a chaper has been sold as well as the pick rate of the killer in question. If a chaper has low sales AND the killer is played extremely rare, one could say that this killer might not be a huge success.
-
@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3683615#Comment_3683615
You were pure chase Pig, that's awesome 😁😁😁
I did also experiment with replacing Pop in build one with Unforseen (I think it's unforseen... the new Trail of Torment perk). That's also quite fun if you want to have something a little less meta, Amanda is naturally quite small, so being able to run upright at full click caught a few people off guard 😁
Hope you have fun! I enjoy trying weird and quirky stuff in this game... I'm still trying to get Hysteria to work on someone... xD
I try hysteria on Xeno. Seemed fitting.
-
@UndeddJester said:
Hi Dalies and Mentlegen of Swine!
I'm coming up with new builds all tne time, and am having a blast not having to rely on on JMF and Combat straps to not get smoked at every pallet.
Just for giggles I wanted to share my current builds I'm having fun with on Pig.
1) Just for kicks
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/2W0O4HLB7DUZ/18e6b55522755-screenshoturl.jpg
All about them kicks. The idea is to try and ensure we're finding people around gens with NTH and try and get our traps out fast. Tampered Timer and Ruleset No.2 to ensure survivors can't take their time and we're keeping as many survivors off gens as possible to allow Oppression to regress generators.
2) I see your pallet...
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/3RMADN0RNEPX/18e6b55645d38-screenshoturl.jpg
The goal here is to chew through pallets as much as possible. If we get good Ambush chances we take them, but if not Nemesis and Game Afoot combined with Brutal Strength allows us to break pallets and keep in hot pursuit, while Deadlock ensures we can stagger our traps well.
3) I see you!
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/GS7U09EFKUJX/18e6b5590c362-screenshoturl.jpg
This builds attempts to get a commanding lead early using our traps as a tracking mechanism to secure a good number of hooks while still at 5 gens. Jigsaws Sketch let's us know who is working gens and gauge if you want to let it go for pops or interrupt for Ruin, and gives us another trap for whoever gets theirs off early. Lethal is there for extending our aura reads, and if noone touches a gen, we can still find people fast and get the ball rolling. The hope is anyone wanting to crank gens we can interrupt for Ruin, and Undying preserves our hexes. We take Face the Darkness to fake out a scream builds and give us auras to keep hounding those boxes if people insist on doing head traps first without popping a gen.
What builds are my fellow Pig mains playing with? 😁
You are a saint.
Literally.
I feel like a lot of my burnout with dbd comes from no variety. Ive been stuck with surge + bbq + lethal + stbfl for literally years now because it works so well. However, this got extremely monotonous over time. Im gonna try new stuff now. Thx for this revelation friend!
♥️🐽♥️
-
@Nun_So_Vile said:
The cosmetics are cool. I already got Elodie's outfit and FINALLY I'll have a new outfit for Oni.
@Atsuka_Anarchy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3680247#Comment_3680247
That Elodie and Oni outfit go hard for me, but that's probably me biased as I main her and Sheva when I play Survivor. Elodie's outfit looks like a warlord pirate from the PotC movies.
Nice!
It looks really good!
-
@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3680110#Comment_3680110
Having basekit Coup on killer after using a blood fountain is pretty gnarly... so that's fun.
Survivors kinda got shafted though, only got hide bonuses... and it raises a question of why you would ever give the Killer a Coup lunge by activating your mountain in exchange for basekit Iron Will...
Bloodpoints don't seem to be rolling in like they said... msybe when the bonuses cone in, but not sure the community is gonna hit the targets, cause it looks pretty slow going thus far.
Thx for letting me know. I´ll wait for the bp to work then. I still have to grind the rift. I want that Clown and Billy outfit.
-
@Nun_So_Vile said:
I feel like my killer games either go
A) We all getting BP and some of you may die depending on my mood
or
B) No one escapes death
Guys, ive been enjoying Elden Ring a bit too much the last couple of weeks. How is the event? Is it good?
-
@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3671448#Comment_3671448
From what many other experienced Pig mains, including myself have tested, the ambush still gets shut down by shift w and pre dropping without certain addons.The buffs where to the basekit. I do not count addons if I talk about a killer basekit and basekit, the ambush still doesnt cut it.
Yea it remains to be seen, I will be making plenty of footage on it when it gets changed as I completely disagree and think a lot of it is just dogpiling and blindly believing something, like many things in DbD I see. I spent a few matches on the PTB but again, its the PTB. I have seen plenty others walk back their original statements on pigs changes even before the 150s revert announcement.
Will just be reserved/disagreement side until it hits live.
In regards to the first trap being a one search: As I said, its risky. Risky for both parties. It can win you the game or lose you the game. Depends on how fast you can get the next downs.
This is why she needs these changes. Getting the next person is the problem. Traps still function the same as they do on live, but for the less experienced, the update is an issue since they cant see the station auras anymore.
Her main issue with anything outside of trap play/camp was getting to targets and then the next target against competent survivors. You dont even get to play the trap side of things if you cant catch anyone reliably and M1 just doesnt cut it you need more from ambush as it currently is.
There are 3 types of the Pigs ambush:
Even without the update there are ambushes to close out loops and gain distance/corral/zoning but without the update this requires the add-ons syringe/grease. This is a bit more advanced play though.
Another type of ambush is missing intentionally to force strong pallets. Another bit of advanced play and situational if you are running something like enduring/spirit fury, which a lot of pigs do.
Another type of ambush is something all pigs are familiar with, roar faking.
So there are more than 3 types of using ambush. Just need to be a bit more creative and have some more experience is all.
The comment got deleted
Ill let the mods explain how and why comments get deleted if they want to. The point was to not bother continuing it as it was removed already.
I mentioned the types of ambush, that can give you a hit with the ambush.
-
@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3671297#Comment_3671297
I am unsure why the addon requirement is something that is up for contention. All play styles with killers really do rely on addons. Killers dont succeed that well going in blank at higher levels of play. It remains to be seen just how required the grease is for ambush to be worth using or not. A quick look and my testing of it, in my opinion, is no. Others think yes. Its not really anything solid though. Many have taken back their original "nerf to pig" stances/tweets as well, this was before the devs came out saying they are keeping traps at 150s.
The atmosphere for playing in PTB isnt the best for testing out what is viable as there is no MMR matchmaking and people aren't familiar as much with the new map. Coupled with people not really playing the way they would on normal live matches.
Losing the first trap early with her current chase though is the problem. You wont get the other 3-4-4 due to games, like the one's that were listed previously, will result in one trap and thats it. Regardless of how many tries it takes to get off that's just not good enough. You should beable to get on to the next target quickly and another trap, and have ways to close down distance. Hence the buff to ambush.
I would rather keep the critique off the forums as it seems the mods wanted to remove that so asking about it will not get an answer. The short answer is my testing showed otherwise in the addon requirement for ambush, as well as analyzing said PTB published videos showing a similar pattern to what was already said of the two others.
TLDR: Would wait til this hits live to really come to any conclusions.
From what many other experienced Pig mains, including myself have tested, the ambush still gets shut down by shift w and pre dropping without certain addons.
I do not take my stance back when i say, that if these changes would have went live as they where, the Pig would have been nerfed overall.
The buffs where to the basekit. I do not count addons if I talk about a killer basekit and basekit, the ambush still doesnt cut it.
I agree, that many people on the PTB dont really play serious, which is why I got a lot of crap form the people I played against. However, there where some survivor players that did play serious and from the chases against them, it shows.
In regards to the first trap being a one search: As I said, its risky. Risky for both parties. It can win you the game or lose you the game. Depends on how fast you can get the next downs.
The comment got deleted because you ignored what I said and called my gameplay and me as a player bad because of 2 games in which my performance was not up to your personal standarts. Games that should not focus on winning but one specific aspects alone. The moondash is extremely viable at higher level and can grant hits at loops, where other killers would wish to be able to get a hit.
There are 3 types of the Pigs ambush:
- Normal straight ambush
- Doubleback ambush at loops (fake one side, go the other)
- Moondash (hug objects without invisible ambush hitboxes to go backwards in order to catch survivors off guard and to get maximum distance around the loop)
The third being the most difficult to pull off because of the before mentioned invisible hitboxes one can run into and the rarity of the loops at which it is even possible to pull off.
Im gonna look forward to the changes. I played Pig for over 2000h+ at this point. The only thing stopping me from playing Pig is either her changing too much (i leave dbd) or the game shutting down.
-
@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3669558#Comment_3669558
Its callled Tbag Trauma 😄
Dont forget the insta blinds and clicking.
-
@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3670553#Comment_3670553
Why would 50% killrate less then 2k on average? You just explained "average" and then the next sentence, 2k is not average? I am confused.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/SXGQEGREAAV8/grafik.png
Slinger has almost exactly 50% on NL. Look, its all there, we dont even need to calculate to see that 50% is 2K average.
Nightlight is not very accurate. Sorry.
-
@sinkra said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3670563#Comment_3670563
Ok 60% kill rate, surely you agree then that all the killers with a kill rate above 60% should be nerfed then right? If 60% is the standard then that should be the absolute max, because anything more becomes too oppressive.
A 60% kill rate is the average. Its fine for some to be above and some to be below if the average balances out.
If the game would be balanced around this mindset, Nurse would be the next in line to recieve buffs.
-
@Gabe_Soma said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3670700#Comment_3670700
Of the people the comment was referring to of course, in this case the Pig's players.
Im a Pig player. Have you seen me complain about the removal of auras?
Do I like the change? No? Is it super bad? Not by a long shot. You can memorize the locations. I memorized all sports, where the ambush gets stuck mid air. This will not be a problem for me.
Please dont antagonize a whole crowd of people just because of some bad apples.
-
@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3670589#Comment_3670589
Oh no I was just pointing out the flaws in trying to balance anything off of the videos that were posted. These don't really highlight anything but a player that is struggling in the killer role in general due to expression of the way they play.
But thats not to say the player is not free to their opinion with what to change for the pig in general. I am not trying to take their style or that away from them or insult anyone. I hope this is clear now.
For her chase though it needs buffing, I think we can all agree her ambush was in massive need of changes. You literally could only use it on trash pallets that you would have to be on the side of. And then if the survivor was smart, they would just hold W to get away from you to the next one. It was extremely niche in its use.
Her main problem is securing a target and the buff to chase is whats needed to change that. You cant get traps on without you know... chase and down plays. Its very difficult, to go from pallet to pallet to TL to end up on 2 1/2 gens done before you get a trap on against a competent team. You need a way to get the traps on to... actually get the slowdown that they are intended to give but you also need to be able to apply sufficient pressure on the next target.
You also need to pray that traps dont just get immediately removed with RNG as well. Scream interrupt should probably be put on the shelf, its really not a fair way to punish survivors trying to do their traps. Its sort of reminiscent of huntress lullaby effecting them, it's probably not intended.
Traps shouldn't be only slow down on the last generator or last 2 generators, it should have some slow down capability earlier in the match. And not require survivors to make mistakes to make it happen. This is where her chase should be balanced and why it needs to happen. You cant get traps on reliably quick enough, against competent survivors, to have it even begin to do what they are intended to do (slowdown).
Her ambush changes now behaves a bit like billy, obviously with less distance and not a one shot but it covers enough distance so even if the person held W they would struggle to get to another loop in time. You can deny TL's the moment you get sight now instead of having to rely on the survivor making a mistake around them. Granted unlike billy, this actually will take way more input from the player and not so much the killer. Running something like superior anatomy around shack wont be required and you can just run bamboozle and catch with M2 or force the pallet.
You would obviously have to build around this as it would be difficult without workshop grease. You probably could do it, but not as effectively but its a yellow add-on, its sustainable.. And you would just run syringe to make it even better at area denial, or just run combat straps.
Hope this is clear.
Again, the player is me. Thx.
The games, which are more than 2, highlight specific problems of the Pig, as I said multiple times before. I do not struggle with the killer role. This is just an assumption you make after watching two games.
I absolutely agree with the ambush related part. The ambush is a super situational power, that can be very effective in certain scenarios but absolutely useless in others. Sadly, the loops at which the ambush truly shines are way below the amount of loops at which it does nothing.
I also agree with the next part. I do think we can agree on something after all.
Losing the first trap extremely fast, however, can still result in a win, due to 1-3-4-4 being extremely lethal in terms of head pops. The game just gets a lot riskier.
Screaming should go. Thats what I and all the other Pig mains are shouting.
As you said, the buffs are completely addon dependent to do their part. The Pigs ambush remains extremely situational in most situations if not certain addons are in play. Again, something i have been saying since the PTB Feedback.
Nothing you said was new to me. This is stuff Pig mains, including me, have been saying on the PTB. Some of my videos showcase the struggle of Pig if the survivor plays smart and shift w or pre drops. They also show the difference of having the addons and not having the addons.
Again, I know this killer.
Last but not least, because you ignored it, what is wrong with how I use the ambush?
-
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3670559#Comment_3670559
major bias towards said killer.
Sure
-
@Gabe_Soma said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3670043#Comment_3670043
This comment is pure gold.
The entitlement of these people is hilarious.
Of which people?
-
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3670379#Comment_3670379
On Gideon or GoJ, sure.
On pretty much any other map? No. You'll find yourself dead AND out of pallets very fast
Depends on map, team, killer and perks.
-
@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3670563#Comment_3670563
Sorry but i can not resist myself and repeat this once again:
Because BHVR wants 60% does not mean anything. Its actually a good indicator that it is a very bad idea.
BHVR proofed 3 things in the past. That they are able to get amazing licenses, that their sound design is god tier and that the ballancing department is run by one summer intern.
I can get behind that. I didnt say, that I think that 60% is good. Just that its the balance they intend to achieve. If someone says, that 53% was good, when 60% was the intended balance, it is downright wrong. The intended kill rate was too low.
In terms of balancing at BHVR, I always tried to excuse some of the stuff that is happening, but with the recent decisions made to the Pig and Sadako, I find it harder and harder to defend aynthing happening.
Feedback that takes too long to be implemented, changes that nobody asks for and sometimes blatant misunderstanding of a characters / perks power level are not easily swallowed.
-
I always try to be, but this was not a proper discussion.
-
@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3670558#Comment_3670558
It's not insulting anything there was no strategy in this video. The person behind this pig gave up and then faked it. They did it again on a slugged survivor at the end. This is the same behavior this person did in the other video and its fine if this is how they want to play, its a video game they want to have fun on after all. They massively lost the McMillan one so... there's not much to prove consistency wise.
The poster plays a gamble of hoping the survivors throw the match for them. But dont try to point others to these matches as if it proves anything wrong with the killer. The person is goofing around and then the survivors try to goof around and then the killer takes the game seriously all the sudden.
I would watch other videos but its becoming a pattern and tiresome with these matches of just goofing around and then abusing the survivors trust. If there is any more I guess I can watch, the one that was linked was unlisted so it would need to be linked as they are all unlisted.
These arent normal matches my friend. Nodding and waiting around/staring others down is not showing anyone or convincing any developer that anything is wrong with the killer. Just the person playing the killer.
I am happy the person is having fun but none of these matches will help anyone figure out what to balance or what to change for the pig. And there is not much to change looking at these videos, there seems to be a very large misunderstanding on how to even use ambush in these videos as well. But I would rather keep the critique to the videos and off the forums as it seems to upset the owner.
The person is me, thanks. You can address me.
I did think about giving up when the David was on the car park early in the match. I thought: "the game is over anyways, lets just get one kill and call it a day." This changed, when I realized, what rng is was given. I planned around it. If you dont want to acknowledge this, i cant force you. It did happen though.
I didnt massively loose the McMillan one. I got 9 hook stages and one kill. Thats pretty good in my book. Did I loose? Yes, absolutely. I didnt get 2 or more kills. But calling it a massive L is not right. Massive losses are one or two hooks with 4man out.
I have my matches private. Only people I give links to can see them. I dont goof around in my matches. In the garden of Joy one, I got a bit annoyed by all the bm that was happening. These are supposed to be the best of the best DBD has to offer and the only thing they do is bm everything they run into. I find this type of gameplay distateful and reacted accordingly in game.
You are ignoring my statement from before. These matches are supposed to give insight into specific aspects of the Pig.
What was wrong with my ambush? Using the moondash to get hits is wrong now?
-
@Akumakaji said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3669688#Comment_3669688
No, this is a good change. The aua of the boxes was alway the problem, in that Pig could just decide to hunt for a trapped survivor and catch them between a rock and a hard place and tunnel them out without so much as a chance to get rid of their trap.
This would have been a suitable change to her head traps together with her buffed ambush, but the increased timer took away too much pressure. Before, a trapped survivor was hard pressed, if they had a 4 box search before them they could not effort to waste time and were on a tight timer, essentially taking them out of the game until they got rid of their party hat. The +30s gave them too much leeway, though. A survivor with an active trap could comfortably finish the gen they were at, heal or help a fellow survivor and still take care of their own trap.
With this change we will hopefully hit the sweetspot of Pigs traps providing natural and good slowdown and pressure, while her chase power is finally useful enough.
I have to disappoint in the chase department. Pre dropping and shift w still shuts her down completely. Shift w is only barely countered if two specific addons are used. This is why we pushed so hard for different nerfs. The buffs did not compensate for nerfs this heavy.
-
@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3670565#Comment_3670565
You said if they were just supposed to be slowdown they wouldn't kill.
I'm saying in order to be effective slowdown they need the threat of death.
You don't solve the Lament Configuration because it makes you quicker, you solve it because if you don't, you will most likely die.
You don't set up Flame Turrets because it helps you repair gens, but because they help you survive.
Good slowdown requires incentive to survive.
Absolutely! However, where there is an option for a kill, people will try to get it and they have any right to do so.
@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3670568#Comment_3670568
Because it technically was meant to be a slowdown feature, not a novel way to tunnel survivors out of the game. This is evident by the changes the devs have made to Amanda’s ability to locate the RBT boxes & initially the increased timer duration (that was reversed but she still can no longer see the box aura without an add-on). And as I’d mentioned to Xernotron earlier it is indeed a fair game playstyle. For once you and I agree on something.
Until i dont see an official statement, that the main purpose of the traps is slowdown and that the mori should only happen to the worst of the worst the survivor playerbase has to offer, I defend my position on the bear traps being able to offer moris if played around them correctly.
What the devs did, was make them less lethal without proper compensation. They saw their mistake after our group pointed it out and reverted it. Shifting her power does not say that the traps are not supposed to be able to kill. Only that they try to make her more viable to get kills without reying on them (which did not happen). If something exists in the game, its absolutely valid to play around it. In case of Pig, its the traps, in case of Sadako its condemned.
I understand that a power that is not solely focussed on chase and more on strategic planning is not for everyone. People have any right to be annoyed about certain playstyles. Its a multiplayer game afterall.
I do think however, that a Pig player that plays a risky game while strategically harassing survivors (if they are given the correct rng), to have a chance at a head pop is better than people stopping survivors from removing their trap cross map to get cheap kills just because they use perks like face the darkness.
We can offer suggestions.
In terms of aura, this will not hinder more experienced Pig players. We memorized the box locations. All this does is make her less accessible.
I personally hope the suggestions of our group will be taken into consideration down the line. They where discussed a lot by people that play this killer for literally thousands of hours and are very well though out.
Glad we can agree on something.
-
@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3670266#Comment_3670266
I understand your perspective but nevertheless it is an extremely common playstyle for this killer—because it works. Tunneling a vulnerable survivor out who is unable to participate in the objective is more efficient than spreading pressure. It’s just like the Sadako condemned strategy, really: while it’s not the way the character is meant to be played it catapults her kill rates because it offers no real counter play. Maybe it doesn’t work so well with high level players but low to mid where most players fall, Pig’s ability to harass survivors with RBTs cleans house. I’ve done it myself a few times. It’s cheap, easy, and virtually guarantees a 4K. In my experience players will prioritize trying to remove the head trap over anything else. And if you keep pushing them off the boxes or even slug them, they become desperate and essentially throw the game or simply die to the trap.
I do not support people that just crouch behind a survivor for 150 seconds straight to get a kill by any means, but how can you say how this character or any character is supposed to be played?
Its in the game. Playing this way is valid. Not nice nor healthy but valid.
-
@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3670145#Comment_3670145
The threat of death is what makes traps slowdown. You cannot escape a trial with an active trap, you have to remove it. It is essential that every trapped survivor removes their trap.
Traps that simply prevent repairs would be useless. The trapped survivor just needs to do anything else while their team mates repair gens. One more more trapped survivors can get away with ignoring it completely.
The trapped survivor is the survivor the killer doesn't want to harrass, but then the trapped survivor becomes the survivor who wants to harrass the killer.
And I said, that I support that?
-
@sinkra said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3669488#Comment_3669488
The kill rate pre-6.1 was 53%. If killers think the game was unfair pre-6.1 when they already had a higher than 50% kill rate, it tells me they don't want a fair and balanced game.
Us vs. them... nice. I play killer more than survivor and want a balanced game.
The game is balanced around a 60% kill rate according to the devs. This is not something your local "killa main - monsters" decided.
I for my part, have to say that DBD pre 6.1.0 felt horrible. The worst was the period with hit validation on DH - dash. It literally made killer players quit or move over to survivor period.
Im glad this changed for the better.
-
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3670512#Comment_3670512
The problem with making her entirely about traps is the Sadako problem we had last patch. Where it was just a condemn slugfest.
Since pig mori got reverted, when will Sadako negative changes be reverted?
Negative for you.
-
@ChuckingWong said:
Just to preface, I am not trying to insult you or demean you. I am only responding to these because you are saying these are struggles with the pig but the videos you posted aren't struggles with the pig its struggles with you playing killer in the way you do, that McMillan match was... what even was that? The other videos I could only find were the PTB ones which aren't that helpful right? People trying the basement perks... goofing around yada yada.
Another thing to mention. There is no question she struggles to get a target down, particularly quickly. This can be frustrating at the start of the match. But also just getting to your next target. I am not trying to diminish pigs problems currently. Just the way you play it is ... over inflating or not even representing the issues she has.
You shouldnt use these videos to post "look how hard it is to play pig" when it turns into matches like this. Its not helpful for the developers to balance the game and its very dishonest to the community.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3670538#Comment_3670538
Thank you for looking at one of my videos, which showcases the struggle of Pig.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z06a3UullRk
I would go further but honestly after seeing what you did at the start.... you "faked" giving up @4:00 and that gave you your first down on the David in the corner. Not really the most genius big brain play of the century alright...abusing your opponents trust I guess?
You did it again on a slug and nodding hoping silly atruism play mistakes ... this is not a normal game. Or proof of anything so this is very much a dishonest thing to say:
I forced survivors into hard decisions
It seems to me, this is the way you play I guess from the 2 videos I have watched. You kind of just wait around and make silly plays from nothing. Noding, waiting around, getting your opponents trust to then hit them down. This sort of reminds me of like... toxic killers who show the survivor the hatch, and then close it in their face.
You do this like weird "trust me bro" thing and then hope they "trust you bro" and down them.
My problem with your feedback and this is just my personal opinion, is you point everyone to these videos saying "heres a perfect example of why pig is..." when the example you gave is just a person goofing off on killer and not doing anything normal players would do in their match.
So you watched only two of my matches right?
Btw... Your again making assumptions.
What i did in the Garden of Joy match was first, using Davids trap to get him downed. This is a power that only the Pig has access to. You can force people to act.
I did not make a "trust me bro" - move. I played into my strenghts
The last play i did at shack was me saying to the Kate, that she should not be greedy for the pallet safe and go for the unhook of David. This was what she was supposed to do in that situation. But she didnt. She just hovered around a bush. This brought Thalita into a really bad position, which was what i played around. I knew she had a 4 search and had to make a choice. Either remove the trap in time or go for David. She chose David and died. Was this inevitable? No. Kate should have realized this. This team wasnt playing around the rng or / and just didnt pay attention.
You are insulting my skill and experience with Pig based on two matches. I recently started to upload some of the matches because some people here dont believe until you do something like that.
Im sorry, that not every match in this game looks like .... what exactly? Its a game afterall. I dont know what you expect. Did i do mistakes in both matches? Absolutely! We all make misakes.
What these games are supposed to be, are examples for specific aspects. Aspects i want to focus on in my arguments. The Mc Millan match showcased how strong of a camper the Pig is and how her ambush can be completely shut down by survivors playing smart. Its not showcasing the "struggle of Pig" in general, it demonstrates the struggle of Pig in chase at specificc moments. This si not about the perks i use, not about the addons, not about survivor items or gen speed. Its only about the apsect that i wasnt able to use my ambush at all to get a hit as perfectly illustrated by the Nea in the end. She was dead on hook and getting her out fast would have changed the match. However, she played really well, giving me no chance to get a hit. This was the apsect this match should have highlighted.
If people are still on the mindset, that 2-3 matches are enough to call someone bad, i will not be uploading any examples of my matches ever again.
These videos serve as examples for specific aspects.
The PTB - videos are exactly the same. I tried to demonstrate the improvements to her ambush in chase. It was not about winning at all. Only about how good the ambush is. I even made that disclaimer.
-
@Vanishlord said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3670457#Comment_3670457
Ah thanks for telling me. Very good sign Mandy took the effort of informing of this.
I really hope that they realize how important it is to give us some feedback. Nothing is worse than to get invested and work out solutions over hours of testing just for it to seemingly be ignored alltogether. Makes one feel useless and unappreciated.
-
@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3670453#Comment_3670453
Higher level Pig gameplay revolves around traps.
I don't know about higher level pig play but that could be kept for someone appropriate to speak on it. I am unsure who to ask about it but, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdPrfrVX1zQ this right here is a mess. And I wouldn't consider this even ... close to understanding the killer role much less high pig play.
Maybe they rely on harassing with traps at the high level but I would really need someone whom has a better understanding on how to play killer, much less pig, to speak on it.
Harassing the survivor with 4 searches of boxes to get a kill is higher level pig gameplay. It is a risky move, because too much harassment and the gens fly. Not enough harassment and the trap won't kill. Please keep in mind, that all this is only possible with the correct Rng. 2-3-3-4 or 3-3-3-3 will not enable this type of gameplay if survivors play smart. The only Rng - variation that enable this type of gameplay are 2-2-4-4 and the infamous 1-3-4-4. To determine which type of Rng is in play adds to the skill cieling of both survivors and the killer. I have seen even great survivors crumble because they failed to strategyze around the rng given.
Yes pig RNG on box searching is annoying. You could have secured a really strong target but, oh look at that, one search and they have it off. It's pretty much a match loss when something like this happens but it happens. RNG is RNG. If you ask me 2 searches needs to be minimum.
All this can be pretty complicated, however, screaming makes it pretty easy against many survivors. Using a perk like face the darkness can interrupt survivors cross map in situations, where the pig would never be able to harass them. Aura only shows where they are. It doesn't interrupt them. The Pig is still 4.6 or slower. She has to invest a lot of time traversing the map. Screaming negates this time inefficiency. It also negates a lot of the strategic gameplay I talked about earlier, because the killer has literally nothing else to do other than opening a locker nearby or hitting someone to apply the hex. Removing this will lower the lethality of the Pig overall, because fewer people will be able to get consistent kills with the traps.
Yea you have screams that interrupt survivors as opposed to auras that only help you locate them. But if they are cross map and doing the trap on their head... you shouldn't beable to harass them, nor should you really care about them but you need stronger chase to beable to secure the next target, hence the update. Scream builds are broken for this type of play but at the same time you dont RELY on them.
I have never said, that the pigs traps are all around kills. I said, that they can and should be able to kill. A lot of Rng variations are just slowdown and nothing else. 3-3-3-3, 2-3-4-3 and all those where the only 4 - search - trap is the first one put down do not offer potential to get a head pop under normal circumstances. The slowdown is as much part of her kit as the kill is.
They can kill it just needs a bit of improvement on the RNG part, see above for at least 2 searches. But at the same time they shouldn't be this guaranteed kill because you want to harass players with traps on their heads. The problem with making her entirely about traps is the Sadako problem we had last patch. Where it was just a condemn slugfest. If everything was about traps, and you wouldn't be able to touch gens with one on like you suggested, then we will just have pigs slug trapped survivors and end the game there. They provide slowdown but going to the next target and getting one quickly can be a problem. Hence the update to her chase.
Why are you more entitled than me to say how the Pig is supposed to be played? I developed a playstyle that makes traps dangerous and that forces hard decisions from survivors if played correctly. You can play however you want. The killer was put in the game and it's up to us to develop strategies. Just because you don't like a playstyle doesn't mean that it's not intended. What we can do is suggest changes to make gameplay more healthy. Forcing decisions from survivors is very SAW - like so I feel strengthened in my playstyle fitting the game. Forcing people off their tests with weird cross map screaming, does not seem fitting to the character and gives way too much benefits for low effort. This sentiment is chared by many other Pig mains and survivors as well. I rarely have someone complain about my playstyle after the match. The complains I do get are the usually "bot killer" that I ignore on a daily basis.
Im not. But much like I mentioned above there are play styles that are unhealthy/broken for the game due to poor decisions balance wise, ie: Sadako 2.0, and current Billy overdrive.
Lore wise though (cringe alert): In SAW, the victims aren't interrupted by the tasks they need to perform by the old man. They have ample time to work out whats needed and dont interact with their captor at all.
Playing around traps adds a layer of strategy and tenseness to every trial. Making the timer long enough for a survivor to take a bathroom break mid match and still get the trap off just fine eliminates this aspect of the Pig. If you are fine with that, that's on you. You are as entitled to your opinion as I am. I personally like the tense gameplay the traps can provide if played correctly. It kept me playing Pig and Dbd for 2000+ hours and almost 4000 hours respectively.
If a survivor took a bathroom break mid match and you didn't catch up on the afk crows then I dont know what to say.
Gross hyperbole aside, traps are tense and can be built on still its not like that is being taken away. You can still use Rule Set No. 2 and build your perks around slowdown. Having aura's on the station is just unnecessary as you can just aura read build if you really want to harass people on boxes. And if you have played this enough already you know where the stations spawn already.
Thank you for looking at one of my videos, which showcases the struggle of Pig. I take it that you ar ethe one that commented on it?
I also just recently played against comp player Knightlighzt and won, so take from that what you want. If this player is higher level, i consider myself to be that too.
I have 2000h+ on Pig and mastered almost all aspects of her power. The video showcased was one of my worse matches. This game was not about me playing around stbfl or my perks. It was an example of showcasing the Pigs lack of chase power when survivors play well. I was not able to use my abmush in almost all situations and when it came down to get one player out (Nea) she played extremely well, denying me any chance of getting a hit.
If you just want to insult peoples abilities based on one match where I use my chill build, out of the thousands I played throughout my time in DBD, that isnt supposed to showcase my skill at winning with Pig but how ineffective the power is against pre dropping, then i have to tell you that this discussion ends here. You severely missed the mark.
I am proud of my gameplay and consider myself to one of the best BOOP - enthusiasts out there. I do know a ton about Pig. And I do know what im talking about.
Pigs rng is fine. Its a matter of skill to determine the rng mid match and adapt strategies. If its just slowdown, play around slowdown and spread pressure. If its 2-2-4-4 or even better 1-3-4-4, then i have to be more mindful on how to use my time given to have a chance on a head pop. A kill can shift a match, so a bit of time investment is fine. It just has to be planned and executed correctly. Failing is really punishing. As it should be.
As you said, i dont think a survivor cross map should be interrupted by screaming. Only the Pig herself should be able to interrupt a survivor by harassing them. Screaming should go, as all of us Pig mains agreed upon.
The only time, a kill is guaranteed, is when the Pig crouches after a survivor, leaving them no chance to escape at 4 or 5 gens remaining. This will likely result in one kill. Feels bad for the survivor, but is not a win for the killer. Almost all other scenarios are avoidable.
This match, that I mentioned earlier is a perfect example of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z06a3UullRk . I forced survivors into hard decisions and they didnt play around it well.
Pig playing around traps is not unhealthy, just hard to balance.
In terms of lore (lore is not cringe, its what dbd is. DBD is a game that revolves around major horror ip´s. If they dont resemble the ip, its not good.), Amanda is one of the best designes. You are correct, that the old man (John Kramer / Jigsaw) doesnt interfere with the traps. However, Amanda is a different cookie. She sabotages traps and kills people. Thats exactly what she can do in DBD. Very lore acccurate.
What I wanted to say is, that a survivor should be on edge while searching the boxes, not knowing of whether they have enough time to finish searching. If the timer is too generous, this tensness ceases to exist.
I do know where the boxes spawn. What are you on about. The loss of box auras doesnt hinder me. I played so much Pig, that i know all the invisible ambush-hitboxes on almost all maps. As I said, I know this killer inside out.
I have to repeat myself, if you just want to insult people, think about before you push that "Post comment" - button.
Thanks
-
@Vanishlord said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3669859#Comment_3669859
Hooray! This is very good I can live without the auras it was the 30 seconds that really bothered me. And given our post does not exist at the moment with the only copy being here where lets face it most people probably don't look in here if they are not a Pig main. Great job everyone this is a big achievement. As @radiantHero23 said the toxic scream builds still exist and we lost our aura boxes.
In regards to the scream build they either din't want to change it as they get money off people buying Xeno for UW etc or they did not have time to do it because there is a new killer and survivor and a map which will likely take priority.
Either way we achieved something which is what is important good job team!
I had Mandy reach out to me in regards to the changes. To boil it down, they understand that the screaming stuff if stupid and should go. They (for some reason) didn't have the time to change this before going live. Therefore the changes made are this "small". Bigger changes like this need more time to implement.
We did definitely change something which is a huge achievement. I just hope that this is not the end of the story.
-
@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3670145#Comment_3670145
Scream removal wont really change this at all. Just run aura read if you want. Floods or NWTH and you have the same silly way of playing, more often than not stations are close to generators anyways. There's a few maps like swamp where they are in the corners but this is so rare.
Seeing the aura's of the boxes is one of the laziest and most non-interactive way of playing pig. If you are hour heavy enough with her and a bit more observant you can still get the jump on survivors trying to remove their traps but pigs entire gameplay shouldn't revolve around it. 180 seconds or 150 seconds wont effect players like this as they are tunneling them and harassing them before the timer even runs out. Nothing changed here. Glad they reverted the timer but it really had no effect changing it in the first place.
Traps are slowdown though. This is especially true when its activated. =someone not on a gen. This is slowdown literally defined. AND they also can kill. So I dont know why there's a question on why they aren't slowdown. You dont need to disable survivors interacting from a generator they already cant if the thing is active. It would be completely broken if they couldn't touch generators just because they have a trap on their head. Why the hell would I ever hook anyone then?
Her chase has been relatively weak but that's because of her ambush. Her ambush has always been this very, very, VERY niche ability to use at SPECIFIC trash loops and possibly TL's, it needed a buff. There really is no question about it. I am very happy with what they have done to it.
Ok...
Lot to unpack here.
Higher level Pig gameplay revolves around traps. Her chase just isn't there. These buffs change nothing in that regard. Pre dropping and shift w still negate all the power a Pig could have in chase.
I use Bbq in my chill build to locate survivors that try to remove their traps. It's a chill build. I can see their pathing and can plan accordingly based on that and the rng given.
If I play really serious, I drop every aura perk and start to focus on every piece of information, creating a mental map of all survivor locations and pathing in my head.
Harassing the survivor with 4 searches of boxes to get a kill is higher level pig gameplay. It is a risky move, because too much harassment and the gens fly. Not enough harassment and the trap won't kill. Please keep in mind, that all this is only possible with the correct Rng. 2-3-3-4 or 3-3-3-3 will not enable this type of gameplay if survivors play smart. The only Rng - variation that enable this type of gameplay are 2-2-4-4 and the infamous 1-3-4-4. To determine which type of Rng is in play adds to the skill cieling of both survivors and the killer. I have seen even great survivors crumble because they failed to strategyze around the rng given.
All this can be pretty complicated, however, screaming makes it pretty easy against many survivors. Using a perk like face the darkness can interrupt survivors cross map in situations, where the pig would never be able to harass them. Aura only shows where they are. It doesn't interrupt them. The Pig is still 4.6 or slower. She has to invest a lot of time traversing the map. Screaming negates this time inefficiency. It also negates a lot of the strategic gameplay I talked about earlier, because the killer has literally nothing else to do other than opening a locker nearby or hitting someone to apply the hex. Removing this will lower the lethality of the Pig overall, because fewer people will be able to get consistent kills with the traps.
I have never said, that the pigs traps are all around kills. I said, that they can and should be able to kill. A lot of Rng variations are just slowdown and nothing else. 3-3-3-3, 2-3-4-3 and all those where the only 4 - search - trap is the first one put down do not offer potential to get a head pop under normal circumstances. The slowdown is as much part of her kit as the kill is.
Why are you more entitled than me to say how the Pig is supposed to be played? I developed a playstyle that makes traps dangerous and that forces hard decisions from survivors if played correctly. You can play however you want. The killer was put in the game and it's up to us to develop strategies. Just because you don't like a playstyle doesn't mean that it's not intended. What we can do is suggest changes to make gameplay more healthy. Forcing decisions from survivors is very SAW - like so I feel strengthened in my playstyle fitting the game. Forcing people off their tests with weird cross map screaming, does not seem fitting to the character and gives way too much benefits for low effort. This sentiment is chared by many other Pig mains and survivors as well. I rarely have someone complain about my playstyle after the match. The complains I do get are the usually "bot killer" that I ignore on a daily basis.
Playing around traps adds a layer of strategy and tenseness to every trial. Making the timer long enough for a survivor to take a bathroom break mid match and still get the trap off just fine eliminates this aspect of the Pig. If you are fine with that, that's on you. You are as entitled to your opinion as I am. I personally like the tense gameplay the traps can provide if played correctly. It kept me playing Pig and Dbd for 2000+ hours and almost 4000 hours respectively.
-
@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3670006#Comment_3670006
Yes, but I have to admit, that this version is better than her first rework, but nowhere close to what she has been.
Let‘s hope for Freddy‘s and sadako’s return. Maybe Freddy gets a rework like hillbilly.
I dont think Sadako will get any changes soon. Its clear, that condemned is now in a good spot. Its as muc part of her kit as the traps are of the pigs.
Sorry to disappoint.
But i have to be honest, im kinda tired of getting too invested into DBD. It only results in disappointment most of the time. Sometimes its just best to suggest but accept how things are.
Best we can offer here is logical suggestions. Implementing them is NOT up to us and thats sometimes a good thing and sometimes a bad thing.
We all have that character that we just want to see succeed. May that be Sadako and Amanda for me or Freddy for @GeneralV. We have no right to force changes in any way or form.
BUT we can try.
-
@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3669986#Comment_3669986
And yet you are happy about a thing about the unhealthy part of her kit. I dont care if the timer is 3 minutes or 2,5 minutes, it does not affect me either way.
But it is very clear that the Devs intend the Traps to see as Slowdown and not as Kill-Methods (in general, IMO abilities which can kill are terrible, because they are a pain to design). They changed it that they are not active after all Gens are done long ago. They changed that you dont see the Aura of Jigsaw Boxes anymore. And they attempted to change the timer.
I would have rather seen further Buffs to the rest of her Kit and not revert a Nerf to the most boring part of her Kit. Like, making her a bit faster while crouched (4,0 m/s instead of 3,8 m/s). Or reduce her Terror Radius back to 28 meters, which would make Whispers being really good to use while not having to use M&A.
Would have been way better changes, but people really wanted to make the RBTs LeThAl again.
You are either ignorant to listen or just didnt inform yourself.
We suggested to make her healthier by deleting the scream builds.
We want to make unhealthy gameplay disappear. Playing around traps is the pigs normal gameplay. Shes not a chaser. Never has been. It just has to be balanced properly.
If the traps are just supposed top be slowdown, then the only effect they should have is " au survivor with an active trap cannot interact with a generator". This however is not the case. It can kill. This should remain that way.
@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3670012#Comment_3670012
there are no plans to do that, as we've always said the boxes are part of the slowdown of her kit, her ambush attack is more of her power than the boxes. They get survivors off gens to remove them, that works as a slowdown.
Howver, they can also kill survivors. So they are not only supposed to be sloowdown. They can result in kills. The pigs chase is not good. Never has been. In the feedback, we provided video material and lots of examples of why these buffs will NOT make her chase improve much against halfway decent survivors.
The Pig can kill survivors with traps. Otherwise, just make the traps that survivors cannot interact with gens. Then its truly only slowdown. As long as they can kill however, people will play around it and have every right to do so.
-
@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3669962#Comment_3669962
I mean, if you have to rely on cheap RNG-Kills, thats fine.
If you just want to make me leave for another week or two, go ahead.
Im just trying to be constructive and suggest healthy changes for my favourite character in this video game. Im so glad that I found people that do the same and share my sentiment.
If you have nothing positive to say or just want to make people feel bad, think about posting for two seconds before pushing that button.
You might hurt people more than you think.
-
@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3669946#Comment_3669946
just to give you some hope here, your voice was heard - we heard it. Just because it's not in this update doesn't mean it's not on our radars. The killer changes made in this update are all small tweaks that do not require a huge amount of programming time, other changes do require that time. If we're seeing a problem develop further with the scream builds, I'm sure we will tackle it.
Thanks! This actually made my day.
Small acknowledgements like this can change a lot.
I hope that Amanda´s more unhealthy playstyles will be looked at sooner than later, so that we BOOP - enthusiasts wont be punished for the sins of a small amount of people.
I just want to stress one thing: Pig is not a strong killer, despite what kill rates say. Every match is an uphill battle if anyone wants to play her at a higher level. The changes in chase do a lot in lower level gameplay, but can be completely shut down by shift w and pre dropping. The screaming builds will definitely show their nasty heads again, now that the auras are gone. I sincerely hope that you guys will do the right thing and look deper into the matter than what statistics say.
Our lady deserves this.
-
@Aven_Fallen said:
Would have been nice to keep it at 3 minutes to show all those people complaining that the increase in the timer would not have changed her Slowdown at all.
But well, at least one of the unasked Buffs for Huntress was removed as well.
We didnt complain about sowdown. We complained about kill pressure.
Thanks for the comment...
-
@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/407346/oink
Yea, lets hope that a nerf to screaming Pig builds is actually on the horizon. As one of the Pig mains in the Society of Swine with @radiantHero23 none of us like how viable this toxic playstyle is.
Im so sadened, that this wasnt tackled.
I feel like a broken record at this point but: WHY ASK FOR FEEDBACK, IF YOU DONT WANT IT?
Doesnt matter... Getting upset or depressed over this isnt worth it.
...
Im sad already...
-
@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3669919#Comment_3669919
Straight up, I'll hit you up on drinkfinder.com when they actually push it live. We better not get Sadako'd in the 11th hour xD
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3669925#Comment_3669925
I am pretty happy given what could have happened...
The loss of Pig box auras is a nuisance, but it is still something you can account for with good guesstimation, or taking aura perks if really needed... overall its a trade I'd accept the chase buffs for.
Only concern now is the inevitable crack from survivors when she can still force head pops... but if we keep the same party line, hopefully will be fine?
P.S. I apologise... I've totally stolen your Pig nose signiature... it's a lot of fun to craft faces around... and I now can't help myself...
^🐽~
Pig is for all of us! Feel free to embrace your inner Pig - emote - master. 🔥🐽🔥
@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3669925#Comment_3669925
Pretty much what you said hits the nail on the head. The most toxic screaming Pig build is going to remain viable, and I don't like that.
Is it just me or does it also make you guys depressed, how oblivious they seem to be to her power level?
Nerfs that dont fix anything are implemented with buffs that do little if survivors play correctly.
It just makes me want to increase my hour count in Elden Ring even more.
-
@supersonic853 said:
- [REVERTED] Decreased Reverse Bear Traps base time to 150 seconds (was 180 during PTB)
Dev note: We wanted to shift some power away from The Pig’s Reverse Bear Traps and into her stealth & Ambush abilities to make her more fun and interactive to play. Many felt that this change was too significant during the PTB, so we have reverted it for the update’s release. We’ll be keeping a close eye on her performance once this update goes live and re-evaluate if this change is needed at a later date.
Thank you! Wish shed get some more chase buffs. But glad shes not getting nerfed on something that wasnt really the problem. Also no changes to scream interactions. But that probably takes more work.
@radiantHero23 guess you get a chance to stay again. Lol.
I WAS SUMMONED!
I have to be brutally honest here. This is not the best change that could have happened. The unhealthy screaming-stuff wasnt tackled and will still be a problem. Normal Pig players got punished and people using these builds are still able to do it just fine.
That they reverted the nerf is good and I very much appreciate that.
Im sadened, that they didnt even mention, that the Pigs problem of shift w and pre dropping is still there full force.
Overall, I am glad that this is not another Sadako situation, im nnot sure however, if this will get me away from Elden Ring right now.
Amanda holds a very special place in my heart and im sure she will get me back into my addiction, but right now, dealing with nerfs that dont feel right and buffs that do little just make me feel depressed.
"push her over the top" is ridiculous though. This cannot come from someone that understands her. They even acknowledged that a Nurse that is on point has no counter whatsoever, but little ol piggy is where they draw the line?
I cant understand this mindset. The only explanation is : kill rates (something they said, is not dictating their decisionmaking)