Comments

• @Caiman said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3978345#Comment_3978345

  I think you take this video game far too seriously.

  Got me. I do. But I really like DBD — it’s a big part of my free time. That’s why I do everything I feel like I have to do, even if it’s just a small thing I can control. And hatch denial is pretty high on that list for me.

  I know those 2v1 situations far too well. I hate it as a survivor when I’m in one of those games where the gens are super far apart, and I still try to fight. I hate it when I get chased, and even manage to hold it together long enough that maybe, please, random teammate, a gen could’ve been done? maybe, pls? Just please? But then the killer finally leaves me because they’re starting to worry about the last gen — only to find absolutely no progress anywhere. And I realize I’m once again the only person who actually tried, while my teammate was off at the edge of the map or maybe chilling in a locker — according to the HUD.

  And honestly, those are the less frustrating scenarios. There are so many games where with 3 people alive, one suddenly decides their personal escape is more important than the match. Not because they’re scared or weak, or the game is going badly — just because something small happened that annoyed them. And without proper communication, stupid things just happen sometimes — accidental bodyblocks, someone messing up on an important gen, or chasing to the injured guy in the wrong spot… it happens.

  And as killer? I don’t care either. I get flamed often enough when I do allow hatch. But that really doesn’t bother me — I know it’s just a free escape at that point. Still, if I can take the 4K, why not go for it? Especially when I actively want hatch to become less relevant and less of a thing in players’ minds.

  If I were to suddenly start playing differently—letting my 4K slide for the sake of statistics (not that I even believe it really works that way)—then the consequences on the flip side would be way too high for me.

  We already see what happens when killers don’t care in that moment: too many survivors do still have the experience or expectation that “it’ll probably work out” if they start playing for hatch past a certain point in the match.

  To me, that extra 1–2 minutes is totally worth it. I want this 4k.

  in Why killers allways should (not) give hatch! Comment by oecrophy August 6, 2025

• @Caiman said:

  I think DbD is more enjoyable when I don't think about statistics like winrates and killrates. I usually don't give hatch because it's time-consuming and I like earning bloodpoints and emblem scores for the kill. That's all that matters to me.

  Bloodpoints don’t matter to me. I’m not thinking about stats or kill rates the moment I choose not to give hatch.

  Emblems? I don’t care about those either—they’re outdated, just a few extra points at the end of the season. Emblems don’t really mean anything anymore, and after the reset, you’re usually back to rank 1 within a week or so.

  For me, it’s simply a matter of principle. I think hatch is super outdated and a really unhealthy design choice. That’s why I’m always willing to invest that little extra time it takes to deny the hatch.

  Idk.

  I really dislike the hatch mechanic. That’s why in my games, survivors often have to wait and bleed. (Maybe for situations like “2 left, one down,” they should finally add an abandon feature for the slugged survivor?) But the other survivor can also speed things up by simply showing themselves — then you can send them to the next round quicker.

  And yes, I would really love a hatch rework that makes these situations faster, cleaner, and simpler.

  in Why killers allways should (not) give hatch! Comment by oecrophy August 6, 2025

• @taktak1 said:

  Hello just wanted to start a thought that i have. I myself am killer main.

  So why killers should allways give hatch has 2 reasons.

  1.) It makes other player happy and enjoy the game more

  2.) It ######### up the statistics.

  BHVR is trying to balance the game on 60% killrate of killers.

  So for example you have 1000 games. In 600 of them the killer kills all 4 survivors. in 400 games all survivor escape. That means you have 2400kills from 4000 kills possible

  So BHVR sees that killer has a 60% winrate and says "this is very balanced and i want it like this". But if you allways give hatch on this 600 games where you basicly could kill em all you dont have a killrate of 60% anymore.

  Your killrate goes down to 1800kills of 4000kills possible this means that killer only have a killrate of 45%. BHVR thinks "Well this killrate is way to low" and buffs killer until the killrate of 60% is back. That means in the end killers are way stronger as the statistics show.

  What do you think about this? Should killer give the hatch? Or rather not to make the game more balanced?

  I always go for my 4K — no “3 kills is enough” mindset, no settling for less.

  That said, I play completely independent of stats or any idea of “manipulating” them to make things look better or worse.

  It’s the devs’ job to treat things like hatch — which already counts as a draw in MMR and is often just a free escape — as what they actually are.

  Whether or not it affects the stats isn’t my problem. I’m here to win matches, not to skew numbers.

  @AmpersandUnderscore said:

  I mean, while this is theoretically true, it would take incredibly large numbers of killers (like most of them across the player base) doing this consistently at every opportunity to have any noticeable impact.

  The are two major factors that directly clash with your points that prevent this from happening:

  1. The "I'm not responsible for your fun" mindset.
  2. Killers care more about winning, especially winning "harder", in the moment, than they do about some arbitrary statistic.

  I'll also add that, while this isn't all killer players, there are an awful lot of entitled players who simply expect buffs no matter what. That they deserve to 4k every game, and if they aren't able to, even once, that means the game *must be* survivor sided and killer needs buffs no matter what the statistics say.

  Those players think they are entitled to both, and "shouldn't have to make sacrifices for the buffs they clearly deserve already".

  Uw. But what you’re bringing up goes way too off-topic and dives into mindsets and situations that have nothing to do with the actual question — whether or not you decide to give hatch in a match you’ve already won.

  Or?

  in Why killers allways should (not) give hatch! Comment by oecrophy August 6, 2025

• @Firellius said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3977489#Comment_3977489

  With most killers, you’ll just be standing there watching this team win — nothing you can do about it.

  Precisely what I'm talking about.

  If you lose as survivor, there's three other survivors you can blame, before you have to resort to blaming the game, or yourself.

  As killer, if you lose, you can blame yourself, or do exactly this: Just insist there was nothing you could've done about it, and it's the game's fault.

  That's caused this particular argument to take shape where a bunch of forum killers are insistent it is physically impossible to win, with none of them having the skill to back such a claim up. And it's really tiresome to see this argument regurgitated over and over and just drilled in like dogma.

  It's Option B: Blame the game. And then demand it gets validated.

  That tactic just isn’t the most efficient.

  So why did it cop so many nerfs, then?

  But I was talking about good, efficient groups

  Yes, I know, that's the only thing you guys ever talk about. The 'literally unbeatables', the top 0.01%, the Team Eternals. Screw the rest of the game, let it all burn down, but If I, as a dead-average killer player, have to lose one match? That's awful, and survivors should lose more to compensate.

  survivor basekit used to be way stronger

  No it didn't! Yeah, they had faster gens, but they also lacked a lot of protection that they have now. Swivel hooks, +10 second hang time, basekit BT, gen kick limit. Survivor basekit didn't use to be 'way' stronger at all, they've sidegraded more than downgraded.

  Killers got way, way more powerful with a series of deliberate basekit buffs and nerfs to survivors.

  But all of that, the entirety of this text:

  Smaller maps are usually an advantage for survivors in the base kit — good teamwork can really hit hard there, good teamplay, nice blodyblocks.. which is also needed given the amount of pallets we have today.

  And y.., back then survivors in the base kit were way stronger if they were good and used everything on the map right. But you gotta remember how unbalanced that was...

  But killers also had strong basekits.. like the pre-nerf Spirit (or prayer beads (but we dont have to talk about the addons, basekit was much much MUCH stronger too), Huntress with multiple one-shot hatchets, insta-saw Billy, the old Nurse... even Trapper was way more favored on the old maps with the old grass.

  edit: but yes.

  survivor basekit used to be way stronger — so strong that the game felt more like a 1v1 in chase rather than a 4v1, where the killer actually needs strong advantages, downs, and hooks to create pressure on the whole team.

  I mean.. survivors were just super boosted in the old days. A lot of groups simply didn’t understand that, and instead enjoyed other aspects of the game — they played more stealthy and never fully used their potential or all the tools they had available.

  so idk.

  Should we really be using some of that wildly unbalanced stuff from th past as an argument for today’s issues in the game?

  The moment we are lookin in the past:

  I mean, back in 2016 I could literally see straight through shack — it was so full of holes that you always knew if and when the killer turned around. With some old builds I could fully heal before the killer even finished wiping their weapon. With the old Brand New Parts, we could pop 4 gens in 30 seconds and then all escape through hatch as a 4-man 1-2 minutes in match.

  A lot of stuff back then was super broken. Unfair. Totally unbalanced. And it got removed for exactly that reason.

  Then MMR came along, and they finally the devs realized how broken their game actually was. (the loops, the tiles, the maps) With update 6.1, the necessary balance changes finally began.

  but… beside this: DBD had a completely different pace back then i n most of the matches — different playstyles, different tactics. You really can’t compare it all that easily.

  It’s never that simple to look at things from just one side or to idealize one side over the other.

  Nostalgia is nice, I feel it often too.
  But idealizing the past is dangerous.

  Is all a distraction from how wrong you are to claim that killers got 'nothing'. You can't say 'Killers got nothing', and then when I point out a washing list of improvements made to killers, retort with 'remember when survivor was strong?'

  Also

  Nostalgia is nice, I feel it often too.But idealizing the past is dangerous.

  You were the one that tossed in CoBruption meta to claim that killers' gen regression hadn't improved.

  And since 6.1, survivors have seriously improved — because they had to after all the killer buffs.

  Did they, or did the fodder just quit?

  Because what I started to suspect after killers got buff after buff after buff, only to turn around and become MORE insistent that the game is unwinnable, is that the game didn't actually get harder…

  There's just fewer weak opponents left. The party petes were starting to quit. So killers go up against better opponents.

  And do the killers then adapt to better opponents by, themselves, improving their gameplay?

  Or…

  With most killers, you’ll just be standing there watching this team win — nothing you can do about it.

  Did they pick Option B?

  Precisely what I'm talking about.

  If you lose as survivor, there's three other survivors you can blame, before you have to resort to blaming the game, or yourself.

  As killer, if you lose, you can blame yourself, or do exactly this: Just insist there was nothing you could've done about it, and it's the game's fault.

  .. just wanna say first: as a survivor, I always look at myself first before blaming teammates. And at the overall situation.
  Yup, it’s easy to just blame the team or the killer, but I know that a lot of it often comes down to me — like overextending loops, being greedy, the classic “one more loop” or “I can definitely make that pallet” stuff. So yea, lots of sloppy plays on my end sometimes.

  That's caused this particular argument to take shape where a bunch of forum killers are insistent it is physically impossible to win, with none of them having the skill to back such a claim up. And it's really tiresome to see this argument regurgitated over and over and just drilled in like dogma.

  It's Option B: Blame the game. And then demand it gets validated.

  hh— uhm... big um,
  Why does it always turn into a “you just suck, just get good” thing the second you lose as killer and say there was nothing you could do?

  Like, ye— as killer I’m apparently supposed to play at 100% perfection at all times.
  Never miss a shot, hit validation always flawless, can’t lose a single 50/50, gotta win every mindgame...

  Meanwhile… how many “I misplayed but got bailed out by X” mechanics do survivors have again on their side?

  Yeah, killers have strong tools too right now…
  And sure, some matches feel straight-up unwinnable — no denying that.
  But most of the time, you still have some chance — even if it’s just a tiny one.
  And still, you need survivors to make mistakes. That’s just reality.

  But if we’re really talking about 50/50 balance, and it’s always like
  “we need this, and we need that to make it fair,”
  and then you stack on anti-camp, anti-slug, anti-tunnel, anti-everything…

  Come on. Seriously?

  Are killers just supposed to stand there and watch every halfway decent group that understands the game escape… and just be okay with that?

  So why did it cop so many nerfs, then?

  I’m not on the dev team, obviously, but based on my experience, I can make a pretty strong guess as to why:

  It’s probably just in favor of healthier overall game balance.

  Against a stealth group, you always had way more time. Those matches were usually the easier ones.
  Because let’s be honest — if you're hiding, you're not doing generators.

  The most efficient thing in DBD is constant progress: gens, gens, gens.
  Stealth players are often the ones who are just kinda “doing nothing” while the killer applies pressure elsewhere.

  And as killer, I know where my pressure comes from — I’d rather get someone hooked and immediately start a tunnel than waste time checking bushes, lockers, and dark corners.
  That’s where the hook into the direct tunnel comes in.
  And if that’s happening, and the rest of the team is still deep in stealth mode with no gen pressure or proper support, that group basically dies because of stealth.

  That was always the case, even back then. You always had the option to just ignore overly stealthy teams and not get pulled into that pacing.
  The only difference was: there were just way more resources back then. Like, a lot more.
  Sometimes triple what we have now — I remember counting 32 pallets on one map once.

  So, the person getting chased for their life used to have way more tools to actually last in that situation.
  But with all the killer buffs, all the pallets slowly getting removed, the strong windows being permanently shut (or literally replaced by open doors),
  stealth kinda got nerfed indirectly too —
  Because with every patch leaning more and more toward killer-favoritism, it became more important than ever that every survivor contributes efficiently to the team’s objective.
  Everyone has to bring their 25%. And up, sometimes that also means sacrificing your own hook stage — because even hook states are a resource.

  And especially in solo queue, that became a huge problem.
  The more stealthy the match was, the more likely you'd have people doing the “super stealth for personal escape” playstyle…
  …while the rest of the team slowly dies.

  Yes, I know, that's the only thing you guys ever talk about. The 'literally unbeatables', the top 0.01%, the Team Eternals. Screw the rest of the game, let it all burn down, but If I, as a dead-average killer player, have to lose one match? That's awful, and survivors should lose more to compensate.

  But yup, I’ll say it too:
  It’s physically impossible to win if the survivor team plays perfectly.
  Zero mistakes.
  But… nobody does that. No one.
  Not even Team Eternal, since you brought them up as an example.
  Too much happens in a single match, and people are human. Humans make mistakes.

  And that’s exactly where killer have their chance — they have stronger tools to capitalize on mistakes.
  I’m totally fine admitting that if a survivor team plays 100%perfect, , I’ve got no shot.

  But that just… doesn’t happen.
  Everyone makes mistakes. I make them as killer — and so do survivors.

  So yipp I'm pressing Ready against Team Eternal on the current state. (Yep, I’m from EU too.)

  (cuz i knew, - mistakes can happen. and atm i can caitalize)
  

  But with all the stuff that’s being asked for lately —
  more 50/50 balance, more comeback mechanics, more of this, more of that…
  and then throw in anti-slug, anti-tunnel, and whatever else is coming…

  Like, how?

  And it’s not even about the top 4% .. (or like u said 1% .)
  if we change all this thinks like asked: It’s about your average groups — the ones who understand the game just enough and can run in a straight line for more than 3 seconds.
  Even those start becoming a problem under these kinds of proposed changes.
  Even when they misplay a lot. Even when they play badly.

  But hey, we keep that survivor-side escape rate stat alive by matching killers against super weak, insta-down lobbies…
  So the numbers still work.

  Yeah... "just play better."
  I know the line.
  I’m tired.

  No it didn't! Yeah, they had faster gens, but they also lacked a lot of protection that they have now. Swivel hooks, +10 second hang time, basekit BT, gen kick limit. Survivor basekit didn't use to be 'way' stronger at all, they've sidegraded more than downgraded.

  Killers got way, way more powerful with a series of deliberate basekit buffs and nerfs to survivors.

  But all of that, the entirety of this text:

  Uhh... but like— every map, every window, and every pallet was part of the survivor base too, right?
  And… what did we actually have back then?
  Sorry, but I had so much "stuff" that protected me as a survivor, I could literally hold the killer for 5 gens sometimes— if he actually tried.
  (Those days are just gone now… well, at least once the killer knows what they're doing.)

  Back then, survivors were way stronger in their basekit.
  There were massive nerfs over time — especially to pallets, windows, and the overall structure of tiles.
  That alone heavily nerfed the survivor base.

  And yeipps— killers were made weaker too, for a while.
  But then MMR hit and get involved… and it showed very clearly:
  The moment you get a few good and efficient people together in a match, those 5-gen games stop being a rare mixed-lobby fluke — and start becoming the norm.

  So … all these changes were honestly healthy balance decisions.
  They just made it more and more obvious how broken the game used to be in favor of survivors in old DBD.

  Is all a distraction from how wrong you are to claim that killers got 'nothing'. You can't say 'Killers got nothing', and then when I point out a washing list of improvements made to killers, retort with 'remember when survivor was strong?'

  Is all a distraction from how wrong you are to claim that killers got 'nothing'. You can't say 'Killers got nothing', and then when I point out a washing list of improvements made to killers, retort with 'remember when survivor was strong?'

  Huh? I never said killers got nothing. They’ve received plenty of buffs — and many of them were important to actually bring the game into a more balanced state.
  You're taking things out of context here.

  What I did say is that with things like anti-slug, anti-tunnel, etc. coming, killers are getting nothing to compensate.
  Not that they’ve never received anything in the past. (Same goes for survivors, by the way.)

  But what we got were necessary balance changes. That has nothing to do with the fact that what’s coming next is about to throw the whole thing back into a completely lopsided state — unless killers also get something in return.

  You were referring to that like:

  Killers have gotten so much in 6.1 and onwards. Hatch nerf, Medkit nerfs, toolbox nerfs, improved gen regression, shorter on-hit sprint, shorter on-hit cooldown, quicker actions, smaller maps, hiding nerfs, updates to weaker killers...

  But the second the devs turn their attention to survivors, 'killers get nothing!'.

  After almost a decade, the one biggest complaint from the survivor side might finally get addressed, and forum killers pull out the 'I am feel uncomfortable when we are not about me?' meme.

  I am feel uncomfortable when we are not about me?' meme

  And I responded that it’s not about feeling uncomfortable — it’s about the fact that even with all the balance changes that favored killers, we still can’t create a situation where upcoming changes or calls for “more 50/50 balance” don’t end up pushing the game back into a state where, as killer, you just can’t do anything again.

  You were the one that tossed in CoBruption meta to claim that killers' gen regression hadn't improved.

  Yup... so what do we even have today? Scourge Hook? You need hooks for that. Only top killers get those quickly and consistently. Good teams don’t give them to you that for free. (Sure, in weak lobbies you’ll get Scourge value after Scourge value while they keep feeding you...)

  Buthalf decent players? They hold first chase longer, don’t rush for instant unhooks, and keep the pressure going, denying you tons of perk value that only bad or casual groups hand over.
  Dead Man’s? Good players don’t just instantly drop every gen. They tap an “unimportant” gen somewhere to block some irrelevant one for 30 seconds, giving the team breathing room.
  Deadlock? Casuals just sit next to the blocked gen for 30 seconds... while efficient teams just rotate and push another gen 30 meters away.
  Pop? Got massively nerfed.

  etc..

  Did they, or did the fodder just quit?

  Because what I started to suspect after killers got buff after buff after buff, only to turn around and become MORE insistent that the game is unwinnable, is that the game didn't actually get harder…

  There's just fewer weak opponents left. The party petes were starting to quit. So killers go up against better opponents.

  And do the killers then adapt to better opponents by, themselves, improving their gameplay?

  Or…

  With most killers, you’ll just be standing there watching this team win — nothing you can do about it.

  Did they pick Option B?

  Y, on this journey, a lot of casuals have either quit or gotten way better. It’s a good thing because survivors now actually have to improve their gameplay—no more easy rounds. Makes it harder for killers, but the game’s more balanced and skill-based overall.

  Did they pick Option B?

  And … about Option B — how exactly are killers supposed to win when matches are already super close, and then all these changes people want (anti-camp, anti-slug, more comeback mechanics, 50/50 balance) get added? I’m genuinely curious.

  in My problem with the 60% kill rate target Comment by oecrophy August 5, 2025

• @Firellius said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3977442#Comment_3977442

  What do Killers get?
  

  Nothing.

  Killers have gotten so much in 6.1 and onwards. Hatch nerf, Medkit nerfs, toolbox nerfs, improved gen regression, shorter on-hit sprint, shorter on-hit cooldown, quicker actions, smaller maps, hiding nerfs, updates to weaker killers...

  But the second the devs turn their attention to survivors, 'killers get nothing!'.

  After almost a decade, the one biggest complaint from the survivor side might finally get addressed, and forum killers pull out the 'I am feel uncomfortable when we are not about me?' meme.

  And since 6.1, survivors have seriously improved — because they had to after all the killer buffs.

  Things that teams used to just “endure” are now actively being countered, even in solo queue.
  Tunneling gets much harder more often through good bodyblocking and smart covering.
  The reduced number of pallets gets compensated by better coordination and team plays.

  And with all those unsafe 50/50 filler pallets (which exist a lot, by the way), plus the smaller maps (which honestly aren’t just killer-sided),
  more and more survivors are watching chases closely, ready to jump in for a clutch "down in pallet" moment, a bodyblock or something else if needed.

  … all the killer buffs pushed survivors to level up hard.
  A lot of people got way better at the game — and it shows.

  Would be funny to see today’s “strong teams” try a short mode with old-school maps, with the old base stuff, and all of the other old things..
  

  in My problem with the 60% kill rate target Comment by oecrophy August 5, 2025

• Earlier you mentioned that it's a benefit to killers that they are 100% in control and don't split responsibility 4-ways with strangers.

  Huh, did you not get the math? If every survivor in a group puts in their 25%, they reach 100% together (even a bit more, which is fine) — while the killer gives their 100% solo. To me, that’s almost a balanced scale, maybe even slightly tipped in favor of survivors. Which is okay, so the balance in 3v1 situations doesn’t completely break in favor of the killer

  And no one likes option A. Which is why the developers can openly state that the game is balanced in favour of killers, why the stats constantly show killers coming out ahead, why we've got winstreaks in the hundreds (Sometimes thousands), and killers are STILL insisting they just can't win at all.

  I also have a really high kill rate. I’ve tried to explain why — because the 100% vs 100% between both sides… it’s like: many survivor groups don’t play at full strength. One person doing “whatever” is already a 75 vs 100 (from my side, the moment I go all in) for me. And yes, I can win. I win very often. I have a chance against super strong groups. But that’s only because I have lots of tools survivors want to take away. I have my 80+ kill rate because I don’t always get those 100 vs 100 situations, where both sides play at full strength, but instead 1-2 survivors drop off and it becomes like 50 vs 100 while I’m still going all in and give form me side the full 100 percent… and because of all the tools I can use — like slugging, tunneling — all the stuff that’s supposed to get taken away with the changes.

  But if that’s taken away, .. (anti slug, anti tunnel, more balance into a 50/50) then you have nothing left against strong teams... so basically, you’ve got really nothing.
  With most killers, you’ll just be standing there watching this team win — nothing you can do about it.

  The counterpoint for a tactic getting butchered is to point out that no one uses that tactic since its butchering anyway. Love that.

  Nah, that’s not what I meant. That tactic just isn’t the most efficient. Back then stealth was easier because two people could carry the round while the rest did stealth stuff. But even then, pure efficiency and a more aggressive playstyle were the strongest way for survivor groups to win fast and clean. There were already super efficient teams .

  Today, most teams understand this — whether good or bad — pure efficiency wins the round, and sometimes it’s even necessary with the pallet count now. Back then you could still compensate stealth (because you had double or triple the resources, better tiles, better windows). That playstyle was never strong and always meme imho. (but more possible because of the unbalanced amout of reccources u had)

  But I was talking about good, efficient groups — not meme playstyles that waste so much time. (because of the strong loops, good tiles, and the abundance of strong pallets, you simply had time for everything back then — all kinds of things. Including a lot of stealth.)

  But we're not talking perks. We're talking -basekit-.

  Smaller maps are usually an advantage for survivors in the base kit — good teamwork can really hit hard there, good teamplay, nice blodyblocks.. which is also needed given the amount of pallets we have today.

  And y.., back then survivors in the base kit were way stronger if they were good and used everything on the map right. But you gotta remember how unbalanced that was...

  But killers also had strong basekits.. like the pre-nerf Spirit (or prayer beads (but we dont have to talk about the addons, basekit was much much MUCH stronger too), Huntress with multiple one-shot hatchets, insta-saw Billy, the old Nurse... even Trapper was way more favored on the old maps with the old grass.

  edit: but yes.

  survivor basekit used to be way stronger — so strong that the game felt more like a 1v1 in chase rather than a 4v1, where the killer actually needs strong advantages, downs, and hooks to create pressure on the whole team.

  I mean.. survivors were just super boosted in the old days. A lot of groups simply didn’t understand that, and instead enjoyed other aspects of the game — they played more stealthy and never fully used their potential or all the tools they had available.

  so idk.

  Should we really be using some of that wildly unbalanced stuff from th past as an argument for today’s issues in the game?

  The moment we are lookin in the past:

  I mean, back in 2016 I could literally see straight through shack — it was so full of holes that you always knew if and when the killer turned around. With some old builds I could fully heal before the killer even finished wiping their weapon. With the old Brand New Parts, we could pop 4 gens in 30 seconds and then all escape through hatch as a 4-man 1-2 minutes in match.

  A lot of stuff back then was super broken. Unfair. Totally unbalanced. And it got removed for exactly that reason.

  Then MMR came along, and they finally the devs realized how broken their game actually was. (the loops, the tiles, the maps) With update 6.1, the necessary balance changes finally began.

  but… beside this: DBD had a completely different pace back then i n most of the matches — different playstyles, different tactics. You really can’t compare it all that easily.

  It’s never that simple to look at things from just one side or to idealize one side over the other.

  Nostalgia is nice, I feel it often too.
  But idealizing the past is dangerous.

  in My problem with the 60% kill rate target Comment by oecrophy August 5, 2025

• @Firellius said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3977442#Comment_3977442

  What do Killers get?
  

  Nothing.

  Killers have gotten so much in 6.1 and onwards. Hatch nerf, Medkit nerfs, toolbox nerfs, improved gen regression, shorter on-hit sprint, shorter on-hit cooldown, quicker actions, smaller maps, hiding nerfs, updates to weaker killers...

  But the second the devs turn their attention to survivors, 'killers get nothing!'.

  After almost a decade, the one biggest complaint from the survivor side might finally get addressed, and forum killers pull out the 'I am feel uncomfortable when we are not about me?' meme.

  It’s not about me feeling “uncomfortable” when it’s not all about me.
  It’s about having basically no chance against some groups with the upcoming changes — and right now, it’s already a damn tough fight.

  I agree… some maps are just way over the top — not because they’re big, but because of the missing pallets and lack of filler tiles.
  But just because 2 or 3 maps are bad for Survivors, that’s no reason to call everything 50/50 or to sugarcoat all upcoming changes.

  
  And smaller maps? Survivors actually benefit from those sometimes just as much as killers do.

  (It’s always nice to have at least one teammate on a gen nearby — for a bit of cover, a fast bodyblock, a quick flashlight save, or just turning a situation into a "down into a palli moment. " That kind of support is something you really miss as a survivor squad on those still overly large maps)

  Hiding? What good group even does that in 2025 anymore?

  And gen regression?

  "Back in the day, gens took about 10 seconds difference

  But old slown perks were significantly stronger — like, way stronger

  
  You can definitely feel the negative impact on killers today.

  Survivors got a huge buff here too — let’s not pretend they didn’t.

  And the biggest difference: that all came with MMR or shortly after. MMR doesn’t work perfectly, has a lot of flaws and issues, but do you know how easy rounds were compared to now? Against many groups it was just “chase someone else.” That was the main advice back then.That strategy basically died around the time MMR was introduced.

  It can still work today, but it’s a huge gamble.
  Back then, average groups were way, way, WAY more mixed.

  in My problem with the 60% kill rate target Comment by oecrophy August 5, 2025

• @UnicornMedal said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3976904#Comment_3976904

  Quit as in stop queuing up entirely. The only thing that has made Survivor do that in the last 3 years is the go next prevention, ironically. Unless you disagree that Killers were queuing much less in year 6, to the point devs had to intervene with the meta shakeup.

  Dead Hard wasn't exactly free either, though. It was probably the most unfair against Trapper and it could've been tuned down to make pallets more of a toss-up. But that also would've required changes to how Killer works with pallets too. Instead, they just heavily nerfed it twice. The only reason we still see it, in my opinion, is because it's one of the very few skill expression perks for Survivor and players really take to that element of it. MFT I don't even wanna get into.

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3976922#Comment_3976922

  VHS is a bad example to be honest. The Teens were basically the exact same as DBD, just with more offensive capability, and the most popular Monster used an AOE that often undid the boring workbench system. Whoever was more determined made quick work of matches. A lot of hit and run on both sides as well, so not much interaction overall. That game didn't live or die on comms.

  Other games in the genre implement comms so that the Killer role can either hear them or communicate with them as well. Friday The 13th is remembered fondly as one of the more entertaining of the bunch and it did that. I don't see why DBD couldn't do the same.

  The alternative would be a voice wheel similar to what Resident Evil Outbreak or Left 4 Dead uses, which would take a ridiculous amount of time and resources to maintain.

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3976957#Comment_3976957

  See above. It's not a personal remark, it's just the truth. Killer has to be handled a specific way or else the queue falls apart. It's true across all asymmetrical horror games.

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3977032#Comment_3977032

  Maybe if you came at it with this attitude from the start, nobody would've assumed otherwise.

  Maybe if you came at it with this attitude from the start, nobody would've assumed otherwise.

  Nah, I... I can’t anymore. I’ve read too many things I probably shouldn't have.
  Maybe I’m just tired. Maybe I’m mad. I don’t even like “fighting” —but i have the feeling I have to fight.

  And I don’t feel the need to speak for Survivors.
  I feel like I constantly have to fight for the Killer side.

  What are Survivors about to get?
  Better MMR.. all the other upcoming stuff

  Anti-slug.

  Anti-tunnel.

  More “basekit protections”… more restrictions.

  What do Killers get?
  

  Nothing. Or worse — the same restrictions, but turned against them.

  It feels like everything is slowly turning into anti-Killer.

  And I know exactly what many of my matches will look like once I'm not "allowed" to slug or tunnel anymore.

  (I assume tunnel will still be the most efficient option in many cases — so people will continue doing it anyway, just while being punished harder by design.)

  But what I do know is:
  Against strong, well-coordinated groups?
  A 4K will be impossible, unless they mess up badly.

  And yes — I go into my matches with one goal:
  I want my 4K. That’s what I fight for.

  Y.. I`m the evil Killer. I know ..

  but..

  Survivors fight too. They sweat. They don’t give you anything for free. And that’s fine. That’s how it should be.

  But when anti-slug, anti-tunnel, and eventually 50/50 balance people ask her for becomes the norm…
  

  Then it feels like Killers are being forced to accept:

  "If your opponents are really good — you’re not supposed to win."

  Meanwhile, those same top-tier SWFs?
  They always have a reliable win — as long as they play clean.
  4 out, 3 out, doesn’t matter. They control the game.

  And to make the stats look “balanced,” I’m supposed to enjoy stomping bad soloQ, casual SWFs, or random lobbies just to keep the average win rate in check?

  Just to make the 50/50 charts work?
  Even if that means I never have a real chance against the coordinated teams?

  That’s what this is heading toward, isn’t it?

  Anti-slug.
  Anti-tunnel.
  And on top of that, 50/50 balance?

  but.. BUT:

  I don’t want the satisfaction of dominating bad groups.
  I don’t care about those matches.

  I want a shot against the groups where every single player has thousands of hours and knows what they’re doing.

  That’s where I want to be challanged.
  That’s where I want a chance to fight — not a guarantee to lose.

  in My problem with the 60% kill rate target Comment by oecrophy August 5, 2025

• @cogsturning said:

  I'm excited to see how this post goes.

  just kinda sinking into silence, I guess? :D ‘cause it really doesn’t make sense…

  A filter in PvP?

  Nah, that’s pointless.

  You’re always gonna run into stuff you don’t like — that’s just how multiplayer games are. Everyone has different things that annoy them. If we start building filters here, where does it stop? Who gets to filter what and who doesn’t? What get a filter next? It’d just turn into a big mess and wreck matchmaking.

  I get it, it’s a legit wish if you keep running into stuff that sucks for you. But that’s just part of multiplayer. How would these filters even work? The matchmaking itself is already kinda like a filter (which definitely needs improvement, no doubt).

  Like, if matchmaking actually worked properly, I should only get matched against the strongest groups when I play Nurse… not lobbies that I can leave after two minutes without a gen even being done.

  Better MMR is the real filter the game needs. Letting players filter individual killers? Nah, what about the killers? What kind of filters does the killer side get?

  And where does it end if we start adding filters like that?

  Who gets to filter, who doesn’t?

  There are lots of people who don’t mind specific killers, but have issues with certain perks or items (like some folks with the smoke grenade — they apparently have real physical problems due to hearing/vision issues).

  Who truly deserves to have a filter at this point then?

  You’d need a completely new lobby system for that — something like “you create a lobby and directly ban or modify certain things for that lobby.”

  Players could then see an overview of all available lobbies and their restrictions, and decide which lobby they want to join.

  A lot of other games have this... but in DBD? Many killers wouldn’t find a game anymore if they play something “too strong” or “annoying for survivors.” And many SWFs wouldn’t find matches either, because no one wants to face them.

  I’d imagine both sides would just create lobbies with settings that suit them best, and no one from the other side would join — so everyone ends up stuck in their own little lobbies lol. xD could be a funny moment..

  and i mean. . other game modes basically act like fa little ilters already..

  And can I also filter out people by region if I suspect I’m about to get matched with someone with 200+ ping?
  That’s exactly the question: where do you draw the line once you start adding filters?

  in Killer filter for survivors (2 or 3 max) Comment by oecrophy August 5, 2025

• hh... yay. So do I get a filter too? Can I block 2-3 red syringes, double Shoulder of Burden, and the full "try it, but I’m gonna be back up in 3 seconds anyway" loadout? Or the full gen speed squad? and all the other good stuff?

  Can I filter out certain SWFs I keep getting over and over again — the ones I know will flame me in endgame chat whether I win or lose (doesn’t usually make a difference) ? xD Can I?

  in Killer filter for survivors (2 or 3 max) Comment by oecrophy August 4, 2025

• You often just can’t do anything. Your fate is already sealed in the lobby — often regardless of what you bring.

  As a survivor, you’re simply not alone. You can bring every tool to make yourself more stable in the match, but you have zero control over everything else that happens.

  The best thing you can really do is try to find a SWF to play with for a while, just so you’re not stuck in these “special lobbies” forever.

  in Fellow Survs, I need your help ! Comment by oecrophy August 4, 2025

• @UnicornMedal said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3976413#Comment_3976413

  It doesn't matter how much you level a Survivor. If you're more invested in Killer, then that's where your bias will lie. The only way to get through that is to look at the game objectively.

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3976415#Comment_3976415

  I don't think it would. We've convinced ourselves that comms would somehow be terrible for DBD, but it's the standard for any PVP game like this. It's an important part of teamwork that's missing and that's why players do it externally.

  To be totally fair too, Killers are more fragile than Survivors. I don't mean that in a snotty way, but if I've noticed anything in the last 3 years, it's that Survivors will continue to queue up for the worst experiences while Killer won't. I'm not really sure how to make the game more balanced while avoiding that loss in the process.

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3976417#Comment_3976417

  And even with Dead Hard, they just pulled a 180. Survivors could use it to win a palette race, so they nerf it and make it so Killers can win the palette race instead with a lunge. It's like they're allergic to a 50/50 chance when it comes to changes.

  I know where the survivor role struggles. I do.

  DBD has changed a lot. The devs are pushing it hard into a direction where it’s actually a true 4v1.
  No more 1v1s, no more “2 people carry and the rest do whatever.”
  Sure, you still get those matches – bad MMR, new killers, killers playing super soft – but once the killer actually understands their role and plays somewhat seriously, DBD turns into a proper 4 vs 1 against a lot of killers.

  It’s 25 + 25 + 25 + 25 vs 100.And BHVR keeps balancing the game more and more to make that scale work.

  and on the way to that goal, a lot of survivor groups fall apart.

  Why? Because the killer just has the more stable position at that point.
  Ye, it sucks being solo as killer sometimes – but at least you can fully control your own 100%.
  As survivor, you only ever control your own 25%. And that’s where the problem lies.

  I’ve played since release, both sides, and .. um.. honestly – for me (only for me, only my option, only my pov) : I know why groups break.
  I also know I’ve got a super high kill rate (way, way way above 60%, which ye, is kind of dumb),
  but that’s exactly why I don’t really care about stats.

  
  What matters is for me is what actually happens during the match.

  And most of the time, survivor teams don’t bring their full 100%.

  Most groups have at least one person who’s already a -25 from the start.
  Sometimes it’s two people, and the team is basically starting at -50%.
  Like that one Huntress match I had where two survivors went for some random sabo plays right at the start – and they weren’t even good at it.
  So I’m playing 100 vs 50 before I even get warmed up.

  And this happens a lot.
  You bring Lethal as Billy or play Blight → someone in the group doesn’t expect it, is out of position, gives you a free down.
  Suddenly it’s 75 vs 100, and yup – that sucks for the other survivors.

  But if that person recovers and still contributes from that point on, the match is still salvageable.

  
  But this is where most groups fail:
  They don’t have all four players consistently contributing while alive.
  Just being alive isn’t enough – you have to do your part the whole time.

  That’s why I think people need to stop obsessing over stats or end results, and instead look at what actually happens during the match.

  And..
  Yes, I still think survivors are the stronger role – and they should be.

  Because when I play killer and aim for a clean 3v1 (75%), the survivor team still needs to have a fighting chance.

  But that chance only exists if the team played the early game at full power.
  That’s where the lead or buffer comes from — the reserve the team can draw on later in a 3v1.

  If that didn’t happen?
  yipp,… it gets rough real fast

  And as a killer, once you start playing seriously, you face tons of groups who always bring around 100% each. Constantly.
  You have to be allowed a chance against those teams, right?

  And still, with most killers, you usually need survivors to make mistakes or misplays

  That’s why I think it’s super important—not just to look at kill rates—but to focus on matchmaking so that each individual survivor in the lobby is strong enough to handle the specific killer they’re up against and has a real chance to contribute their 25% in the match.

  And that’s usually not the case.

  And I know this from the survivor side myself. Then on top of that, you get gen reg hitting you…

  The team starts to break down, and you can feel the pressure easing off your own side. People start playing worse than they should, hanging around gens longer than they need to — because you’re thinking, “I have to try to make up for what we lost. Everyone on my team is under pressure right now, so I need to pressure this gen.”

  And slowly, the team falls apart. Because one person often can’t pull their 25%, the others start losing their “own strength” too, and suddenly everyone is just scraping by at like 10%.

  It’s really hard in those situations where things are falling apart to still play “clean” as a survivor team. People start doing random stuff. And then emotions kick in — maybe some get triggered, whatever. I know all that.

  Like… one player plays dumb because they think, “I gotta greed this gen, I’m the only one making progress right now… I have to keep pushing.”

  Another messes up because they’re triggered that things are already spiraling, so they rush the unhook too openly and recklessly.

  Then the next one’s like, “Yup, this round’s probably dead anyway, why bother trying? I’ll just do something random… no point stressing in the chase, let’s just try some funny play.

  And suddenly, every single player in that situation and group no longer has their full strength.

  That’s why I win so much as killer. Even with the ‘super weak killers.

  So um, yes , I think it’s super important that BHVR makes sure every single survivor is matched in a way that they can pull their 25% against the killer they get. - and I’m totally fine with some adjustments for SoloQ too.

  But overall, from my (trying to be objective) perspective, it’s currently not needed to give more "goodies".

  There are situations where even strong groups have little to no chance… but those are really specific edge cases where something needs to be changed, reworked, or fixed. Like some Coldwin maps for example — few or unsafe pallets, hardly any filler pallets to chain loops together, basically just a guaranteed death sentence for the team. Same goes for Haddonfield.

  Also, many new killers get “too much” for what they have to do, like Ghoul or the recent changes to The Clown.

  Nurse is still (despite her bugs) lethal on most maps… y, I know if I pick Nurse and I don’t want these guys to get out, usually it’s like: this team is dead, no matter what. Nurse "this one" killer you can equip and normally win —even if the group doesn’t make mistakes.

  On some maps, it’s way too easy for the killer to put survivors in situations where they just can’t do anything or recover. (Here, the survivor team really needs super solid macro gameplay.) But up… it is what it is. At that point, the killer is the stronger force.

  But.. ehw.., it’s hard for me to agree with some changes and survivor requests as long as I keep seeing so many avoidable mistakes, dumb plays, and in a lot of rounds, it’s just not a true 100 vs 100. I’m often playing with 100% on my side against like 50% from the survivor side… I don’t know.

  As long as this kind of discrepancy exists, it’s hard to “sign off” on stuff, because what about the groups that actually are at 100%? And there are so many of them…

  (I mean, I’m a survivor too, and I’m often not able to keep my performance consistent either — I tend to do some nonsense once the round starts falling apart anyway. - even though with a lot of effort from everyone involved the round could often still be saved and winnable… butwith randoms, you know from experience: that just won’t happen.)

  So even when I’m playing 100% as killer, as a survivor I often let my own performance drop below what I could bring — because you only ever really have control over your own quarter of the team.

  I know all the problems.

  But still, with a lot of the suggestions I see, I just don’t think it’s the right way. I can’t get behind a lot of things because I know no matter what you give a lot of groups, it won’t be enough—they’ll still die, while the strong groups will just keep squeezing out the maximum on the flipside.

  Maybe I’m biased in your eyes… I don’t know. I guess I have to accept that — it’s like all the things you hear when you really start taking killer play seriously. And… I’m used to being left with this feeling that I’m just the “bad person.” I mean, that’s not new to me.

  And yup… very often, I just think, I don’t care — especially when I read the changes some people want.

  
  I play harder than I need to.
  Do things I don’t have to.
  But um.., I’m only human.
  Some things just push you into a “whatever” mode.

  in My problem with the 60% kill rate target Comment by oecrophy August 4, 2025

• Nah… but..:

  um.. Psst… that’s just how it goes with PvP games that have been around for years.
  New killers go through a rough time — just like new survivors do (if not worse).
  Most new survivors get completely steamrolled without even knowing what went wrong.
  No basekit perk is gonna magically fix experience gaps overnight.

  Better MMR? Yes.
  Some kind of basekit training wheels for new players? No.

  in We need some major QoL for killers Comment by oecrophy August 4, 2025

• @jedimaster505 said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3976369#Comment_3976369

  It's not toxic, it's factually accurate. Most killer mains I've talked to or read their complaints on this forum but also on social media as a whole, hold the opinion that the inflated 60%+ kill rates are "fair" game balance and that the "weak" killers ought to be buffed since they're not as strong as the S tiers, despite already having kill rates well over 50%. Of course not every killer main believes this but the ones who don't are a minority which should be quite obvious with the constant influx of doomsday posts about how hard the game is for killers. A large proportion of killer mains even believe the strongest killers in the game deserve more buffs and that DBD in 2025 is still "survivor-sided".

  Make a post on just about any popular DBD discussion site arguing that the average kill rates should be 50% to be fair for both sides, no matter how politely stated, and you will be quickly inundated with mass downvotes and a choir of killer mains claiming that objectively fair balance is "unfair" for killers and would "ruin the game" and make killer role "unplayable". You yourself have previously claimed killer role would die if the game was fairly balanced.

  So I've been routinely gas lit by killer mains claiming that an imbalanced game is "fairly balanced" despite this being objectively false. There is definitely a strong sentiment of entitlement to killers being the power role (which in plain English, means having an unfair advantage in a PvP game), since this is what the devs have aimed for balance-wise for quite some time. Many survivors mains and hybrid players also hold this same opinion simply because a few popular content creators preach it. I will continue to counter this narrative so long as it remains popular, which is the case, especially since newer players often just assume this narrative is factually accurate and continue to repeat it ad nauseum.

  I’m one of those people too.

  Look, the game has to be unbalanced. The killer needs that “unfair” edge.
  It’s PvP, yipp — but asymmetric PvP.
  One killer vs. four survivors. That’s the core.
  If both sides were equally strong, the four survivors would just coordinate and crush the killer every time.
  No way around it. Survivors have numbers and task division on their side.
  So the killer gets tools that feel unfair. That’s how balance works here.
  Without those tools, the killer gets steamrolled — and we’ve seen that era before.

  Why should the killer be a threat?

  Because one survivor’s mistake means instant punishment.

  Survivor errors cost more because they weaken the whole team.

  For killers, a slip-up just means reposition and try again.

  But survivors? One wrong move, and they’re hooked, downed, or sometimes out early.

  The killerrole need this.

  Because mathematically, one killer alone can only handle so much pressure.
  If survivors didn’t make costlier mistakes, their 4-to-1 advantage would always overwhelm the killer.
  So the killer’s power has to be stronger to balance the equation — making sure one strong player can still contest four coordinated ones.

  ..but..

  That’s why so many survivor groups lose.
  It only takes one person not doing their “job” to throw everything off.
  Mathematically, losing one player in a four-man team cuts your overall effectiveness by at least 25%, while the killer still operates at full strength.
  That’s why so many teams fall apart — because even one weak link can break the whole balance.

  (You really shouldn’t balance this game around the “-25% team value” scenario — which happens way too often (especially in solo queue) when one survivor basically drops out or stops being useful.

  
  That’s why I also agree that many killers still need buffs

  And um, .. idk: the current kill rate is honestly a bad indicator for balance right now — because MMR is so unreliable that in many (if not most) matches you end up with that -25% or even -50% team value situation, where 1 or 2 survivors just drag the whole team down.
  That’s why, in my opinion, we desperately need a proper, functional MMR system first — before we even think about doing something like “Operation Health.”

  in Operation health? What about operation balance? Comment by oecrophy August 4, 2025
• https://www.twitch.tv/gammalunatic/clip/SpoopyBetterVultureKAPOW-WpZxMzvYBz2APXlI

  Lol… I’ve never seen such a clear and direct message aimed at Ghoul before. xD (Not my POV though, I don’t play this killer)

  (only a bit around release time, for the achievements and with every change they make, to get a feel for the updates)

  I honestly don't think he needs a nerf at all — the entire mechanic just needs a rework.
  I don't even consider him that strong in his current state, and slapping another nerf on top would just be Skull Merchant treatment all over again.
  What he really needs is a proper rework: make him harder to play, make it so he has to earn his hits — and most importantly, get rid of those unfair hits through/around walls and similar jank.

  in Kaneki hate Comment by oecrophy August 4, 2025

• @CompetitifDBD said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/452972/lampkin-lane

  It wasn't even too unhealthy in its revamped state before its size reduction. It still lacked pallets, it just had alot of windows is all, which they said was corrected (in which they fixed by shrinking the map and removing one of the houses

  And then this damn RNG on this map

  just.. those moments when RNG’s like: Nope, not a single damn pallet for you out here on this street.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqbL9CVnYQg&t=1s

  in Lampkin Lane Comment by oecrophy August 4, 2025

• y… pls.. i hope so. Every. damn. game.

  

  in Why has Streetwise not been killswitched yet? Comment by oecrophy August 4, 2025

• @Pulsar said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3976416#Comment_3976416

  I keep questioning you because you responded to me twice and I wanted to know why.

  Because it was super important to me to clearly separate that (rather off-topic) reply to one person from the main content of this post.

  @GeneralV said:

  Honestly, the only problem I have with the 60% kill rate is how the process was done.

  Because the idea was to make killers more lethal, if memory serves me right, but by the time it happened there wasn't much being stacked against the killer role. Immediately before patch 6.1.0 the only genuinely overpowered thing survivors had was Dead Hard. The absolute strongest things survivors used to have had already been removed, changed or altered in some way.

  They could have adjusted things differently, imho.

  yipp..

  Sure, sure — old Dead Hard was boosted, no doubt.
  But.., that’s nothing compared to what stacked groups can bring in today.
  There’s a lot of insanely strong stuff now.
  Why? Because they completely ruined a lot of the older maps and made them really rough for survivors.

  That said, the game is way more perk-dependent than it used to be.
  A lot of trash maps nowadays are basically compensated for by strong perks.
  I’m not sure if that’s a good thing — just because some . .idk for example.. Coldwind maps got gutted doesn’t mean we don’t still have a bunch of ridiculously sper super strong ones.

  so yes.. like u said:

  "They could have adjusted things differently, imho."

  in My problem with the 60% kill rate target Comment by oecrophy August 3, 2025

• xGodSendDeath said he never runs into people who give him “free kills.”
  And I simply replied that I am sometimes down for that — especially in those backfill lobbies where I know I’m probably not going up against a strong killer.

  So why are you twisting my reply to him and acting like I’m trying to use a fun meme video as some kind of balance proof?

  I’m honestly just sooo confused.

  I mean, I even wrote underneath that I would’ve been dead. .. I´m so confused. xD

  in My problem with the 60% kill rate target Comment by oecrophy August 3, 2025

• @Pulsar said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3976394#Comment_3976394

  You already responded to me?

  You didn't even do anything super crazy, the mistakes you did make didn't get punished.

  For example, that Myers popped Tier III from a mile away. Nobody does that when they are running basekit Myers.

  Where exactly did I say that the Myers played good — or that I wouldn’t have gone down against a good killer in that situation?
  I literally said the opposite, multiple times. I still don’t understand your point. I already wrote this straight under the video, - i respond later already to this again to you .. and..

  to quote myself again:

  Uhh, what’s your point?

  That one comment was just a reply to xGodSendDeath, saying that I’m always down for memes and “weird plays” as survivor — even though I play pretty sweaty when I’m killer.
  It wasn’t some kind of proof that I always get easy escapes against strong killers. I don’t. And that’s how it should be.

  You’re confusing me by constantly assuming I’m trying to use a fun meme video as some kind of balance proof — even though I’ve said multiple times that it was just a reply to that one person who said they never get survivors who “give them anything.”
  It was never about how well or badly anyone played.

  I’m still confused, honestly.

  in My problem with the 60% kill rate target Comment by oecrophy August 3, 2025

• @UnicornMedal said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3976371#Comment_3976371

  The obvious flaw there too is that if you're more biased in favor of one role, you will always assume the opposite is a cake walk without checking yourself. Balance discussions can't get anywhere if we're spending all of our time watching someone lick their wounds.

  

  But y, you got me. I’m a pure killer main and totally biased in favor of that role.
  I only know the “evil evil OP side” — and yep, I’m over here licking my wounds.

  in My problem with the 60% kill rate target Comment by oecrophy August 3, 2025

• @Pulsar said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3976346#Comment_3976346

  I don't think either of those Killers were any good.

  Against strong killers, you have to play like that — early run, always head for the furthest tiles you can still reach, early drop, and if things get tight, use the stronger structures at the right moment. (and pre-dropping is suuper boring too yawn)
  It’s always the same patterns. It’s not like, “let’s see what I can pull off with this super unsafe tile.”

  Good teamplay and good cover can be fun at that point, but the whole “efficiency core meta gameplay” is honestly kind of boring.

  And 4-man SWF makes it even worse — you just have so many tools to still recover things.
  But a strong SWF can take so much momentum away from the killer, deny so much.
  It’s still way too easy to mess things up as survivor and still win.

  in My problem with the 60% kill rate target Comment by oecrophy August 3, 2025

• @Pulsar said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3976366#Comment_3976366

  My point was that it entirely depends on whom you are facing. If you face new Killers, obviously, yes you can get away with messing around. Much like if you play against new Survivors as Killer, you can get away with a lot of stuff.

  You also know when it's safe to go for the goofy plays as Killer.

  I am really not sure what your point is. All it seems like is you are trying to use personal anecdotal evidence to prove that Survivor is easy?

  Uhh, what’s your point?

  That one comment was just a reply to xGodSendDeath, saying that I’m always down for memes and “weird plays” as survivor — even though I play pretty sweaty when I’m killer.
  It wasn’t some kind of proof that I always get easy escapes against strong killers. I don’t. And that’s how it should be.

  As survivor, the moment you play for the win (3 out), you have to "sweat" back. That’s just how it is.
  There’s no room for goofy stuff — one mistake can sometimes cost even a strong survivor team the entire match.
  And? It should be that way.

  Still, you often win even against strong killers —for me its not even "sweat." it is not hard to play the whole efficiency meta clean the moment you play surv. y still have a "chill and fun" time .. for me.

  in My problem with the 60% kill rate target Comment by oecrophy August 3, 2025

• @Pulsar said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3976346#Comment_3976346

  I don't think either of those Killers were any good.

  Sure, if I played like that against myself as killer, I’d be dead. But who cares?
  You can mess around and try dumb stuff — especially if you’re not up against a strong killer.
  You’ve got all the second chances in the world. And honestly, you usually know when it’s safe to go for the goofy plays.

  and.. When I leave my profile public, a bunch of killers dodge me. And if 2 or 3 killers DC or leave the lobby, you have this "backfill lobby" now and you pretty much know you’re gonna get "anything", and that’s the perfect time to go full meme mode.

  The “comp meta” as survivor is just insanely boring. Early calls, early leave, early shift to the furthest tile you can still reach — and if needed, early drop. That’s it. Super boring.

  in My problem with the 60% kill rate target Comment by oecrophy August 3, 2025

• @xGodSendDeath said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3976320#Comment_3976320

  I've never once ever felt like survivors cared about my fun in this game at all, but I'm supposed to care about everyone else's. I've had a whopping 1 survivor give me a free kill when I had a bad game and that was back when Oni came out and it was my very first game playing him. 1 time lol over 6k hours

  Oh, come to my lobby whenever I play survivor… I’m always down for some fun meme plays. :D

  I know how boosted the game is for survivors, so I often just don’t care — especially when I’m stuck with a weak killer.
  Like… Myeri is coming? Ye, sure, you can have your one shot. :D Let’s see what you can do with that super unsafe map edge pallet.
  And why not greedy every pallet? Just… why not?

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7bYMRIniYE

  I bet you’ll respect it anyway, because you’ve got your precious one-hit Shast and assume I’m gonna drop… xD
  (As soon as it hits, well, I’m dead.)

  but.. come on, who cares, i have 100 second chances.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kD_Rn0nbDAQ

  or why not be once into some roleplay and be the typical baby meghead? xD

  I seriously thought this random Twitcher dodged me... but he just types NO. That was so good.
  And then he even presses ready let it happen for me to do my baby Meg stuff that round xD

  As a survivor, you’ve got so much space to mess around

  :D

  in My problem with the 60% kill rate target Comment by oecrophy August 3, 2025

• @UnicornMedal said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3976013#Comment_3976013

  I think you misunderstood what I meant when I said it should have greater responsibility.

  DBD at its core relies way too much on mutual respect, which is why the concept of a rulebook exists on either side among other things. But I don't mean that. I mean that Killer is ideally the overseer of the trial. The Killer is essentially one means to an end, while escape is the other. As such, the Killer is actively working against the Survivor's escape as much as they're working toward it and teamwork is key.

  The issue right now is that BHVR has balanced the game so that Killer has to do that less. There is more autonomy given to them to handle incredibly coordinated Survivor groups, while the average group of Survivors struggles to even be on the same page about what their plan is. It takes what should be a game of equity and not equality and turns it into an unfair experience where the only way to handle 90% of Killers is to become 10% of Survivors. That is a baseline denial of that responsibility that I mentioned.

  The players follow the course of action that the game dictates. It's why Killers continue to camp/slug/tunnel excessively despite whatever patch comes along and why more and more Survivors excuse giving up entirely. They're natural decisions that make sense. The game doesn't know how to balance that and BHVR certainly struggles to do so as well, but regardless of that it isn't the players' faults for not doing it either. Just to clarify that I don't think it's a YOU problem personally for playing Killer.

  As Survivor, you just have so much more room to play differently — to mess around, try dumb stuff, go for funny plays or do random nonsense just for fun.
  As Killer, you don’t really get that luxury. Not at all.

  Honestly, I think Survivors are in a much better position to “take responsibility” and make the match feel fair — if they want to. Just my opinion.

  in My problem with the 60% kill rate target Comment by oecrophy August 3, 2025

• @UnicornMedal said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3976013#Comment_3976013

  I think you misunderstood what I meant when I said it should have greater responsibility.

  DBD at its core relies way too much on mutual respect, which is why the concept of a rulebook exists on either side among other things. But I don't mean that. I mean that Killer is ideally the overseer of the trial. The Killer is essentially one means to an end, while escape is the other. As such, the Killer is actively working against the Survivor's escape as much as they're working toward it and teamwork is key.

  The issue right now is that BHVR has balanced the game so that Killer has to do that less. There is more autonomy given to them to handle incredibly coordinated Survivor groups, while the average group of Survivors struggles to even be on the same page about what their plan is. It takes what should be a game of equity and not equality and turns it into an unfair experience where the only way to handle 90% of Killers is to become 10% of Survivors. That is a baseline denial of that responsibility that I mentioned.

  The players follow the course of action that the game dictates. It's why Killers continue to camp/slug/tunnel excessively despite whatever patch comes along and why more and more Survivors excuse giving up entirely. They're natural decisions that make sense. The game doesn't know how to balance that and BHVR certainly struggles to do so as well, but regardless of that it isn't the players' faults for not doing it either. Just to clarify that I don't think it's a YOU problem personally for playing Killer.

  I understood u. I get where you're coming from, I really do. But I have a really hard time agreeing with your point — and uum, that’s tough for me, because it’s just not my experience.

  Even an average Survivor team — or honestly, even a really bad one — the kind where you think, “Okay, this round’s gonna be chill,” can absolutely blow up in your face the second you give them an inch. Not because they’re good. Not because they have solid movement or any real sense of positioning.

  It’s just that even bad groups can punish you hard if you give them space.
  Survivors just have so much stuff they can stack on their side to completely strip you of momentum, regardless of how well they're actually playing.

  Like..

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6_b8Z-pz9k

  Super bad players. But what do they do?

  "I’ll just run upper main... ez. Killer can down me here, no problem — we’ve got sabo. Let’s deny his first hook and show him what kind of match this is gonna be."

  (I already expected the sabo play based on how they were moving, so I checked the downstairs hook just in case.)

  And the rest?

  Nope. Not with me.

  I went to hook anyway — and of course, Ace bodyblocked and took a hit just to use the speed boost to sprint trying to the next hook and trying break that one too. and again: Not with me.

  And you never know what people are running. The whole Survivor fun-perk roulette can hit you anytime — even if you go soft at first, it’ll smack you mid-game or near the end.
  (Go easy early, and by mid-game you're suddenly dealing with all kinds of nonsense.)

  In that match, they basically gave me the opportunity right at the start. And they clearly forgot a few things too — like, more Unbreakables? So, more sg, ftp, maybe a bu?

  This is a PvP game. And as long as even the “super bad groups” throw in everything they’ve got and bring every tool they can, I’ll do the same.

  And y — even those groups can win easily without being anywhere near the “top 10%” — if you give them space.
  Of course, people say the usual:
  “EZ just git gud, tutorial killer. Just don’t make mistakes. Just play better. Just land every shot.”
  Yup, I’ve heard it all.

  (I honestly missed a lot that game too — frustration over the sabo stuff really messed with my focus and aim.)

  But I’ll only take that kind of advice from people who actually show me solid movement — not from insta-down Survivors who only win because of the “skill, skill, skill” loadout they brought into the match.

  So y — I’ll keep camping, tunneling, slugging.
  Like you said: probably doesn’t matter what patches come out as long as the game stays the way it is.

  both sides are just power-creeping their strongest stuff. Killers and Survivors.
  Even the worst Survivor groups are doing it.

  You get that every single match.
  Doesn’t matter if they’re good or bad players — every single one.

  Why exactly should Killers be expected to take responsibility at that point?
  Responsibility for what, exactly?
  So Survivors can have their little fun time with u the second you give them the space to breathe?

  I really want to understand it.
  Like, actually understand it.

  in My problem with the 60% kill rate target Comment by oecrophy August 3, 2025

• @tes said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3976077#Comment_3976077

  People will keep considering it as unfair, so I refer to both terms in such sense. U can counter both tunneling and genrush if u can, but it’s genuinely hard. And that’s the point. Put other side in biggest disadvantage and force mistake due to stress

  That's just DBD.

  This game is often not fair – and that's just the truth.

  There are situations you simply can't counter.
  If I go in as Nurse and make it my goal to tunnel someone out hard right from the start – that person dies. Fast. And once they're out, the rest of the team usually collapses shortly after.

  Same the other way around:
  If I go in with my squad, we load into Springwood, full genrush builds, everyone knows how to loop… 2–3 Brand New Parts, Built to Last, toolboxes.
  GG. Unless the killer brings something very strong, they're just done.
  No time for pressure, no time to snowball – gens fly.

  That's just DBD. It’s inherently unfair at times.
  So what do people do when they start climbing MMR and run into stuff they can’t counter?
  They start playing the strongest stuff to reduce the impact of the unfair things on their side.

  Without realizing they themselves bring unfair stuff to the table in the process.

  And that’s the cycle.

  I go in as Nurse, take a full team out of the game with 5 gens still left. The team feels like they got unfairly stomped.
  Next game? Triple BNP, full denial, full genrush builds.
  This hits a normal M1 Killer. Killer has no time to play the game.

  Then that killer gets slammed, feels powerless, thinks "f this… next game I'm going Nurse. No mercy."

  And the loop repeats.

  Sometimes I catch myself in that cycle too. It’s hard to avoid when the game keeps pushing both sides into extremes just to survive.

  in AntiGenrush system Comment by oecrophy August 3, 2025

• @SS6 said:

  Specifically, I mean when you knock the last person and they all disconnect. It is VERY annoying when I knock the last two, and see (BOT) next to their names EVERY TIME.

  But why is it even annoying to you at that point? I mean, once the last survivor goes down, the match is decided — the loss is guaranteed for the survivor team.

  So what's the problem if they disconnect then?
  I’d understand if it happened during the match, sure — that’s frustrating. Bots aren’t exactly a challenge.
  But at the very end? Doesn’t really seem like a big deal to me.

  @tes said:

  Sometimes it makes game easier. Sometimes not. But I just don’t like chasing bots or completely ignore 4th member that still can do gens.
  
  More annoying when survivor disconnect because of every even the most small inconvenience in the game

  …that last point — I really hate it.
  People just DC, leave their teammates to certain death, and I’m the one left with the "leftovers" on the map, doing the dirty work as the killer.
  And I have to be the one who feels bad about it.

  especially when they don’t want to die and still try to fight their way out somehow — trying to finish some gens even though at that point I just want to end it quickly for them.
  But nope, they keep resisting.
  

  feels super bad to kill this lobbys.

  Honestly, I’m glad DCs get punished so hard now. :/

  in Killers, is it annoying when survivors disconnect? Comment by oecrophy August 3, 2025

• @tes said:

  Until tunnelling still the main way for killer to put pressure gen rush has to exist. Both groups should have tools for win in a such way, even if it doesn’t seem fair

  Tbh, I don’t think it’s that bad or unfair. I actually like feeling gen pressure as killer — knowing that if I mess up too much, gens will pop and I’ll lose. Sure, hard tunneling often flips the pressure onto the survivor team, but that’s also where intense and fun interactions come from: good teamplay, solid cover, smart plays.

  Sure, if you define “unfair” as one specific, “chosen” person not making it out, then yup — maybe it’s "unfair" to that person.

  (as soon as fairness is measured only based on individual players instead of the whole team.) But that’s just part of the game. Someone has to die each match. As a survivor, I think you should always evaluate the team result at the end. (I know, that’s really hard and frustrating in solo queue sometimes.) Just my opinion, idk

  @KnightBrave said:

  Is it fair when survivors repair 2 or even 3 generators almost at the same time, especially the last two?
  I think it's too strong, especially against killers who can’t apply enough map pressure. I was thinking about adding a weaker version of Deadlock — for example, blocking a generator for 5 seconds when its progress reaches over 95%.
  Would that be a fair mechanic? Curious to hear your thoughts.

  Something like a "weaker basekit Deadlock" (or basekit Grim Embrace or whatever) would probably need to be heavily limited to certain killers.

  Just imagine playing Nurse and getting a free Deadlock on top — most groups already can't keep up, especially if I'm not even running gen regression but things like Agitation + Franklin's, etc.

  That kind of basekit effect would be way too strong on certain killers, especially against casual players who don't instantly jump on the next gen 20 meters away but instead just sit near the blocked one waiting it out.

  You'd probably need to exclude specific killers from that entirely.

  in AntiGenrush system Comment by oecrophy August 3, 2025

• @Starfury said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3937104#Comment_3937104

  Last time I checked, that's a stealth killer being compared to a dash killer? Pig is all about catching people off-guard and getting as many traps placed on them as you can to force survivors to slow down and attempt to find a key for it or die. She's not rushing to the other side of the map like Blight does, obviously, two completely different types of map pressure.

  @XDgamer018 said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3937017#Comment_3937017

  ??? last time i checked i cant make my pig get the same speed as blight

  Yup… Pig creates map pressure in her own unique, cute, special, and (definitely) super efficient way.

  ".. uwh, Piggy’s now behind the shack, heading towards the main, coming from the window side."
  "Okay, I’m gonna leash this little piggy and take her for a stroll around the main."
  "Nah, she’s not feeling it, she’s heading over to the LT… not the shack side… alright, I’m gonna run ahead, there’s a nice sexy jungle gym back there, let’s see how the little pig likes that."

  "My gen’s about to pop, I’m gonna follow her for a bit and see if I can bait her back toward the shack."

  ..

  I’m on this Pig now… AHH, it’s a boopable pig! EVERYONE COME boop this damn snoot!

  Four survivors suddenly not on gens.

  Mission map pressure : done

  ( I guess.)

  So. Yey. Yes.

  Every killer has their own unique way to apply map pressure.

  in AntiGenrush system Comment by oecrophy August 3, 2025

• @HaliAndEx said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3975823#Comment_3975823

  I'm not saying every killer power needs to counter a survivors build. But it makes perfect sense that a killer's power can counter the survivor's perks.

  Yupp.. right.

  Killers should be able to counter survivor perks with their base kit, without relying on perks themselves. Otherwise, the survivor team gets too strong and the balance breaks. A killer can’t bring a counter perk for every situation. Flexibility and pressure need to be built into a killer’s core kit.

  in Fog vials completely kill the engagement and pacing of trials Comment by oecrophy August 3, 2025

• Not at all. I like it when they disconnect. Everything else just feels fishy to me. I gotta watch out that they don’t add another Unbreakable or some last-second thing that makes me have to stay alert in the game. When the players gone and only bots are left, I know the round is really over and no more “surprises” are coming.

  in Killers, is it annoying when survivors disconnect? Comment by oecrophy August 3, 2025

• @thrawn3054 said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3976018#Comment_3976018

  That is honestly one of the most ridiculous things I've seen on here. Why not tunnel every flashlight user. It would make as much sense.

  Starting the tunnel just because he bring a flashy? Does that really make sense?

  in Fog vials completely kill the engagement and pacing of trials Comment by oecrophy August 3, 2025

• @drsoontm said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3975394#Comment_3975394

  Oh, I know that name : hello ^_^. Are you « 281/282 DbD achievements » ? (Your name feels pretty unique so I'm guessing it's you.)

  I wonder what has made you finally create an account here after all these years.

  oh hey hey :D y, guess u are right. :D ? if that is me? (still need this damn gen @ the new map :/.. )

  

  and y.

  I felt like I had to. Like I had to fight. Somehow. There are so many changes coming that I’m not really happy to see. That’s probably why I had to sign up here (and maybe make myself a bit unpopular with some stuff, but.. ).

  @MDRSan said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3976011#Comment_3976011

  If you could see scratchmarks, auras, and hear all audio in a fog cloud - what exactly is the point? Mild vision obscuring? It would be a meme item at best.

  The biggest problem I see way more is that chases sometimes don’t even start or get interrupted mid-chase. You’re working your way through a loop — window should close right away, but bam: chase gone, nope, window blocker denied.

  new chase. Maybe totally fresh shack/main run.

  That buys the survivor team so damn much more time.

  Sure, you want to win those tiles before the window blocker becomes a thing, but y.. suck sometims

  in Fog vials completely kill the engagement and pacing of trials Comment by oecrophy August 3, 2025

• @tes said:

  I doubt fair “ties” possible in game as high frequent cases. So many bugs, RG dependencies, unclear MMR system just makes it impossible

  True. You’re right… most ties happen because either survivors or killers get “too bad” or “too nice” towards the end. It goes for both sides. In rounds where both killers and survivors play efficiently, the outcome is usually clearer. Ties do happen, but like I said before, not because there’s some system that provokes them — it’s because of chaos and mistakes.

  You can’t really design a system that “forces fair rounds” or “creates ties” naturally. Same goes for those situations where both sides are just being nice or not taking it seriously. Ties always come from chaos, not from some mechanic aimed at balancing rounds more evenly. Right? (Maybe I’m missing something here though)

  in My problem with the 60% kill rate target Comment by oecrophy August 3, 2025

• @tes said:

  I doubt fair “ties” possible in game as high frequent cases. So many bugs, RG dependencies, unclear MMR system just makes it impossible

  yipp .. and:

  Most “ties” don’t come from clean, balanced gameplay — they come from chaos, mistakes on both sides, and lucky timing that just happen to cancel each other out.

  You rarely create a tie through intentional, smart decisions. The game isn’t designed that way. It’s binary at its core: you kill or escape, you hook or rescue, you finish a gen or you don’t. There’s no real neutral ground.

  Sure, you can force a tie — like letting two go as killer — but that’s meta behavior, not a natural PvP outcome.

  A tie usually just means both sides played inefficiently. If you play efficiently, you either win or lose. normally: You don’t tie.

  in My problem with the 60% kill rate target Comment by oecrophy August 3, 2025

• @tes said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3975823#Comment_3975823

  I can’t imagine how any killer power can negotiate survivors ability to win.

  If killers power can negotiate squads with headon, sabo, power struggle, dh, or ect., well, it’s few killers, they aren’t extremely popular, and again, u still can win.

  From killers perspective, if survivor has soul guard, unbreakable and new michone perk, oni can’t even pickup because cool-down lasts longer than 25% recovery progress. Same with fool stack sfw with flashlights and power struggle, why survivor always trying to be get down under pallete. Same with fog vials and range killer, myers, ghostface, and spirit.
  
  In what cases killer power can negotiate skill from survivor and make them simply waste time ? I’m curious

  He s probably about how a lot of survivor perks can be countered through base killer kit alone—and, I have to agree. With the right decisions, you can completely shut down entire perk builds. (full sabo squads with slug etc) DS can be avoided by slugging too. Tons of perks only activate after an unhook—Dead Hard, Deliverance, whatever—can all be denied through full slugs.

  So ye: the base killer kit can hard-counter a lot of survivor perks. Whole builds, even.
  

  But it’s wild roulette.

  (Tes is describing the experience accurately here. (And ye, the new perk is just aother fun-fun toy stuff for survivors again.)

  .. survivors also have tons of counter-perks for every scenario, and the killer never knows what’s coming. It’s a dice game.

  Always.

  You slug because you expect DS? No DS—but they have Unbreakable.
  As killer, you’re constantly stuck in a second-chance roulette, where you just have to hope your current move is betting on the right color.

  And then you run into a "strong" SWF that has everything stacked for every situation.
  So yes: the killer kit can counter a lot.
  And honestly? I think it’s still not enough.

  There are so many situations where you’re just completely powerless—just like tes I quoted here lready pointed out.

  in Fog vials completely kill the engagement and pacing of trials Comment by oecrophy August 3, 2025

• @UnicornMedal said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3975729#Comment_3975729

  There's ways of doing that that don't ensure that the game is in the place it is now. At the end of the day, the game is still PVP and the power role shouldn't be as easy as it is. That power should come with a greater responsibility.

  My point, just to get that out of the way: the “power role” isn’t actually that easy by default. It only feels easy in a lot of matches because many survivor teams don’t understand the tools they have. They don’t use them. They don’t treat it like a PvP game. They play poorly—sometimes even recklessly.

  I get handed so much for free in so many games. Either because they underestimate the killer, rely too much on their build, their SWF, on the hope I miss or overlook something—or because a few players are just here for a casual horror experience with skill checks and friends. They don’t really want to learn. They’re not playing the same game.

  And the thing is: 1 or 2 survivors like that in a team? That’s all it takes to hand the match to the killer and make it feel “easy.”

  Is Killer really the “easy” role that’s supposed to “take responsibility” — just because the survivor team isn’t playing smart or well? I don’t know.

  Is that really the Killer’s responsibility—to make sure the match feels fair when the other side isn’t even trying to win? I’m not so sure.

  in My problem with the 60% kill rate target Comment by oecrophy August 3, 2025

• @UnicornMedal said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3976004#Comment_3976004

  Are you talking to me or a brick wall?

  You just quoted me. So guess who?
  But maybe it applies to both.

  You can reply or nah.

  That’s on you.

  in My problem with the 60% kill rate target Comment by oecrophy August 3, 2025

• @UnicornMedal said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3975729#Comment_3975729

  There's ways of doing that that don't ensure that the game is in the place it is now. At the end of the day, the game is still PVP and the power role shouldn't be as easy as it is. That power should come with a greater responsibility.

  Ever wonder why killer sometimes feels so easy — and other times insanely hard?
  Can u think about that? What’s really causing that difference?

  ez EZ EZ ez Ez tutorirla kilelr u just have to get gid Gud

  might be a simple answer.
  But is it really the right one?

  in My problem with the 60% kill rate target Comment by oecrophy August 3, 2025

• @MDRSan said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3975971#Comment_3975971

  So long as killers CAN kill as fast as they do now, gens need to be completable in that time frame or what's the point of queuing for survivor? (Especially in solo queue)

  Slower gen completion could be re-introduced to the game for the price of larger maps, nerfed killer aura perks, nerfed killer map traversal, or other balance changes to make sure killers aren't just steamrolling the now further enfeebled survivors.

  100%. Definitely not just solo queue, but most SWFs too. If the game gave you more time at the current pace, most teams wouldn’t stand a chance. That’s just how it is now. The problem is, if I’m supposed to allow more stealth gameplay and go along with it, I need more time. But with the speed most groups set, you lose if you try. So you don’t even try. But you’re right: if rounds got longer to favor stealth, killer sticking to efficient playstyles would just wipe everyone else out.

  It’s a classic balance trade-off.

  Anything you slow down in the game to favor stealth ends up making it too easy for players who stick to the efficiency meta

  in Fog vials completely kill the engagement and pacing of trials Comment by oecrophy August 3, 2025

• @ContentCreator said:

  The same mechanism as crafting flashbangs. The inverse of how repairing depletes toolboxes. It just makes more sense in the context of how other items and perks function.

  Good idea. It would also force more “unproductive” survivors who just want to play around with their item to actually think about doing the shared objective once in a while — and maybe stop spamming the item, using it more strategically instead. I like the concept.

  I’d also have a lot more respect for smart, well-timed use of the item from the killer’s perspective — compared to when it’s just mindlessly spammed. Right now, I treat players who overdo it with the fog the same way I treat full-on sabo squads.

  in Fog vials should get refilled by repairing generators Comment by oecrophy August 3, 2025

• @Volcz said:

  Stealth & deception were a staple of this game from the start. Just b/c they nerfed Distortion into the dirt does not mean the game 'evolved' and stealth should stay dead. A LOT of people like the stealth. It adds an avenue of fun versus bringing the same ol medkit, toolkit, or flashlight that we otherwise would have brought.

  Its like the old fog that used to be default in every map, it added to the atmosphere and now its just gone. Even though no one asked for it to be taken away and most people want it to be brought back.

  A lot of killers are just not fans of seeking out survivors & they disguise their opinions about perks/items as legitimate reasons when they aren't. At least you're being honest & I can respect that.

  and .. + something else I want to add: the problem is, as killer you simply don’t have the time to play hide-and-seek or engage in "stealth games—at least not against an efficient team. The game used to be slower overall, gens took longer, and survivors didn’t push the pace nearly as hard as they do now.

  Back then, killers still felt threatening. Today, most teams know your limits down to the pixel and will use that knowledge against you.

  And there wasn’t MMR back then either—you constantly had mixed lobbies where you, as killer, had all the time in the world. But y ..

  I feel your nostalgia. I kind of miss the old fog, the old grass, the old atmosphere too…

  ... but nowadays, if you lose someone against an efficient team, you’re just screwed. You can’t afford that anymore.

  but..

  The biggest and most significant difference compared to back then is this:
  Back then, way more people were new. Even the “good” players from back in the day would be considered pretty bad by today’s standards — and there simply was no MMR.

  (Back then, as killer, you had so much time—time for everything (well, as long as there weren’t any old brand-new parts in play, of course).

  in Fog vials completely kill the engagement and pacing of trials Comment by oecrophy August 3, 2025

• @oecrophy said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3975945#Comment_3975945

  I’ve got zero issues tracking people in chase through the fog —once the chase starts, you rarely lose anyone anyway. But early Shift-W is already meta, and when I’m playing something like Huntress and see someone badly positioned, running super early w-shift straight through the open with awful pathing—basically a free hit—and they get away just because of Fog Vials? Yea, no thanks. I’m not playing into that “I played bad but my item bailed me out” nonsense. I just switch up my playstyle.

  And with Spirit, chasing someone with M1 while my power’s ready just because Fog blocks audio and scratch marks? That’s not fun or interactive. I don’t think Fog is overpowered, and um.. yup, there are stronger items—but it’s still poor design when some killers are affected way more than others.

  For me, it’s not even about the tracking part—I just really dislike seeing someone with terrible movement get away purely because of an item. That’s the kind of play I just can’t really respect. Sure, I could find them again if I commit to it, and I don’t think stealth is even that viable on small, bright maps. It’s not like I’d get totally lost.

  But at that point, it’s just not the most efficient playstyle anymore, so I usually just go for what is efficient—because chances are, if I’m already seeing stuff like that, I’m not going to get good movement or interesting chases in that match anyway.

  in Fog vials completely kill the engagement and pacing of trials Comment by oecrophy August 3, 2025

• @MDRSan said:

  Based on some of the language used in this thread, I'm getting the impression that when a killer player says 'interaction' they really mean 'chase I win'. The problem some seem to have with Fog Vials is that it lets survivors win a chase and get away. This is kind of the whole point of the item - why would anyone bring it otherwise? Would killers rather survivors just try their best to hide rather than get in chases with them in the first place? That feel more interactive to anyone?

  I have honestly found more people in chase BECAUSE of them popping fog vials. They mostly either think they can just shift+w like I don't see them when i'm a couple meters away, max or they don't think I'm going to check the obvious locker because I didn't hear the usual sound. The only time someone has lost me is when they've already broken LOS and we're in an area where they could have potentially gone enough directions that I can't check them all before scratch marks exiting the cloud would have dimmed to nothing - the Slaughterhouse structure as one example I remember.

  I’ve got zero issues tracking people in chase through the fog —once the chase starts, you rarely lose anyone anyway. But early Shift-W is already meta, and when I’m playing something like Huntress and see someone badly positioned, running super early w-shift straight through the open with awful pathing—basically a free hit—and they get away just because of Fog Vials? Yea, no thanks. I’m not playing into that “I played bad but my item bailed me out” nonsense. I just switch up my playstyle.

  And with Spirit, chasing someone with M1 while my power’s ready just because Fog blocks audio and scratch marks? That’s not fun or interactive. I don’t think Fog is overpowered, and um.. yup, there are stronger items—but it’s still poor design when some killers are affected way more than others.

  in Fog vials completely kill the engagement and pacing of trials Comment by oecrophy August 3, 2025

• @Ryuhi said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3975870#Comment_3975870

  Ah yes, so I'm only unable to utilize any core tracking mechanics for 8-12 seconds at a time, roughly every 60-70 seconds.

  Per survivor that brings the item.

  Cyclically throughout the entire match.

  But hey, at least i wasted multiple perk slots on perks that only work when there isn't at least 1 survivor nearby with a charge ready

  true.

  and.. I also feel like Fog Vials just make the gap between console and PC players even worse. On PC you’ve got better visuals, sharper input, clearer audio—stuff like that hits way harder with an item like this. typicial Console players just get screwed more often,. i mean, the item is now ingame, we have to deal with it anyways. but y. idk.

  in Fog vials completely kill the engagement and pacing of trials Comment by oecrophy August 3, 2025

• @AbsoluteMeghead said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3975836#Comment_3975836

  Cool and the killer put all their eggs in one basket by not picking perks to deal with fog vials and picking a killer whose weak against them. Problem solved.
  
  Believe it or not I played this game before Billy and Wraith were added. I'm far too jaded to deal with this level of hypocrisy where it's okay if one side has something that negates the other side but it's not if the other side has something that's strong. Go and deal with it like everyone whose ran sabo against pyramid head, healing against plague, stealth builds against doctor, and so on and so forth.

  Oops, messed up the quote. The last post was meant for you.

  in Fog vials completely kill the engagement and pacing of trials Comment by oecrophy August 2, 2025

• @Ryuhi said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3975842#Comment_3975842

  Cool and the killer put all their eggs in one basket by not picking perks to deal with fog vials and picking a killer whose weak against them. Problem solved.

  What perks? Whispers? Bloodhound? Those are the two I came up with and have yet to hear more. Maybe Stridor? The effects of the vials block almost every single tool that would be used to compensate for the issues they create. Not only that, this is about something that introduces multiple accessibility issues centered around core mechanics that are already biased against people with disabilities, with an impact ranging anywhere from "barely an inconvenience" to "I would have a better idea of whats happening with my eyes shut and my headphones off."

  Imagine if there was a new killer who hit you with a poison that inverted your controls. Sounds absolutely horrible, right? Some players would be able to adapt to that without skipping a beat. Hell, people already know to run backwards toward hag traps to make her extremely unlikely to land a teleport hit. But lets say a bad idea like that gets pushed out anyway. This would introduce an accessibility nightmare, as it relies on a particular ability to compensate for perspective disorientation, something your average person needs to recalibrate to before even attempting to "translate" their inputs. For many, the game would become unplayable. And that would be just one killer, not a potential for up to 4 opponents.

  Thats why the fog vials are such an issue. You back yourself into a corner with design like that, it either has to be so weak that it doesn't ruin the experience for affected players, or it has to be so strong that its oppressive even against people who are less susceptible, and absolutely butcher affected players. THIS IS A COMPOUNDING ISSUE DUE TO MULTIPLE PURPOSEFUL DECISIONS ABOUT TRACKING, ESPECIALLY REGARDING CHASE MUSIC AND VOLUME NORMALIZATION. You know, assuming there aren't any major bugs currently affecting tracking elements at the time, and there always tends to be at least one.

  If you've been playing as long as you say you have, you've definitely seen a lot more loaded hypocrisy than what you're perceiving on this issue.

  Wdym? I really don’t have an issue with it. Everyone can bring whatever they want—perks, add-ons, items—it’s all part of the game. I never said otherwise.

  Also, I never claimed I feel completely countered by it. It’s just that in some situations, it messes a bit with how I personally like to play—like lining up satisfying Huntress longshots, or how Fog Vials can throw off Spirit’s power. That’s it.

  Not even complaining here, just pointing out that IMO it’s not the best design when something that’s not strong by itself ends up hard-countering specific powers in specific cases.
  That said—if I see four Fog Vials while queuing Spirit, I still hit ready. I just adjust how I play.

  Fog doesn’t affect close-range chases much, so it's not really a threat there. If needed, securing an early tunnel to establish pressure is just a logical adjustment.

  If I can already tell the match is gonna be boring, I just try to end it fast. Play it efficient and move on.

  Also eh… you probably misunderstood me. I never complained.

  in Fog vials completely kill the engagement and pacing of trials Comment by oecrophy August 2, 2025
• in Fog vials completely kill the engagement and pacing of trials Comment by oecrophy August 2, 2025