mizark3
mizark3
About
- Username
- mizark3
- Joined
- Visits
- 2,135
- Last Active
Comments
-
@Whoudini said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3206638#Comment_3206638
At least facecamping the game will end in 5 mins, if survs want to they could drag it out for 15 mins + no thanks.
Just as power-spam Legions and slowdown stacking Killers can currently. Also many facecamp matches have Survs actually want to play the game, so they go for the rescue at 55s if it isn't an instadown/exposed Killer, or even longer with Reassurance. Making that take ~8 mins minimum, to reach the 8 hooks before deaths start happening.
Overall though we should seek to minimize the bad experiences in all facets. I think early facecamping is a far more common experience than a theoretical Survivor corner camp bleedout suicide pact would ever be.
-
That's hilarious, they are both equally fair.
NWO rewards spreading hooks and basically guarantees a 4k when you close the Hatch. It also gives you a hard minute at endgame if it was a close match, giving you enough time to hook and defend or pursue before they can prep the gates. It does suck though when no one taps the gate ASAP after the last gen was popped in soloq.
Stakeout Hyperfocus is only synergistic when the Killer is nearby but not in chase. When you chase the Surv they don't get Stakeout, and when they are slugged/on hook they don't get it. It basically punishes Killer tunnel-vision in chase for not disrupting nearby gens. (Not tunneling, but tunnel-vision, as in not having awareness beyond the chase.) Alternatively as for when the Killer didn't run enough intel perks on people or gens, and lets them sit nearby.
-
What about endurance when dropping pallets instead? If the endurance procs then you get exausted, and lose out on the 4s speed boost for the endurance 1.8s speed boost. That is also cut short by the remainder of the drop animation. This could help in the case of those laggy hits through pallets, and also give some value against ranged attacks like hatchets and Nemmy whips.
-
@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3206826#Comment_3206826
No. They're doing it because they're entitled and they personally don't like how the match is going. They do it every time a killer buff happens or until the community sets its sights on the next killer to nerf. The devs notice all the DCs towards 1 particular killer or perk, and so they nerf it. It's rewarding temper tantrums.
People are quick to give survivors the benefit of the doubt. But killer? "They just camp and tunnel because they want easy wins." Not gonna explore the causes of that, are we now?
Which is why the reason needs to be addressed, and not the symptom.
As far as camp/tunnel I spend more time playing Killer than soloq Surv, and I have no need to camp/tunnel to regularly win. I only need to counter the cheese of 59s saves with the 45-59s proxy camp, or punish the BT bodyblock early game with a tunnel. I only need to use such uncouth tactics when their Survivor equivalent is used against me.
-
@EntitySpawn said:
Yes I know it's not even out yet, and that is what bugs me the most how BHVR just overlook and over complicate everything.
So first of all the whole point of this mori change is to make them more common to see (which is good I agree we should see them more, cant say I ever see them... although some definitely need updating, currently mobile DBD has better moris for wraith, trapper etc.) Encase you arent sure what the change is, whenever the final standing player is put into the dying state a mori will automatically trigger and end the game giving the killer the win with a nice mori animation.
However here is every issue with this:
- The mori only triggers when the last person is knocked down, this means any game that doesnt result in a 4k you wont see this happen. (This is because survivors dont tend to leave people until they're dead on hook, it's rare for everyone to leave while someone is still alive) since a 4k is supposed to be more rare than a 3,2 or 1k this means you wont really encounter this system.
- This means more killers will slug for the 4k, this is just a boring thing that happens in the game. Whether you're the slugged player or the last one standing it's just boring. Some killers will also feel the need to if they want to see the moris
- There are numerous challenges that require you to kill someone by your own hand, this now basically means get a 4k or hope for the very small chance everyone leaves before you down the remaining player and hope they dont get hatch. This is too rare to happen and challenges shouldn't keep forcing a 4k since that's not the balance point. You also cant use perks/offerings to do this as you changed them
- The actual mori offerings are now a gamble and promote bad and boring gameplay. As mentioned before you need to slug for the 4k or hope on the very small chance of everyone abandoning people (which let's be honest most survivors just wait at the gate) this mean killers will massively feel forced to slug for the 4k as the offering insists you do it or you will get 0BP from the offerings (which can cost 3k+).
- From point 4, the mori offerings are a gamble of you will get a 4k. Why wouldn't people just use set BP offerings and guarantee rewards no matter how the game goes. Remember a pudding is 100% BP, that's a 40k bonus meanwhile the best mori offering gives 20k and is a risky gamble. This makes mori offerings pointless. (Personally I'd rather a refund)
- Rancor, killed the perk. Having someone exposed at the end isnt worth it. Your obsession could be dead and all this does is down them, stuff like BT etc. Will protect them. It's too niche to have the obsession alive, fully healthy and next to you. Might as well just use NOED and guarantee an exposed on whoever is near and can give inst downs on multiple people (REMEMBER WE DONT WANT META PERKS, MAKING PERKS WEAK WILL JUST STOP THEM BEING USED AND FORCE LESS RANGE OF PERKS USED)
- Devour, the whole point of devour was the mori. The ability to instantly kill someone where they was even through DS. However the change now stops that, while you can still kill someone instantly on hook you have to worry about pallet saves, flashlights, sabo saves, DS etc. All of this is not including giving survivors extra time to cleanse your hex before you can get them on a hook. (REMEMBER WE DONT WANT META PERKS, MAKING PERKS WEAK WILL JUST STOP THEM BEING USED AND FORCE LESS RANGE OF PERKS USED)
- Giving survivors base unbreakable, while I dont have a problem with the 45seconds it raises issues. This 45seconds should be a set amount, no survivor should be able to pick themselves up faster alone. (Even if the recovery bar is full they must wait 45seconds) but still what about some core killer issues? Huge maps, survivors spawning separated on multiple gens straight away, spawning on hexs? (If anyone will use hexs, you're kinda killing them all)
- Unbreakable, why is unbreakable 100%? That makes it way better than a boon... you know a boon which you have to place and be within range. Make 0 sense and we can exactly buff boons to silly numbers or itd be impossible to even slug.
- With unbreakable being so fast this makes flip flop, powerstruggle even worse to verse. All it takes is one survivor to go down in a pallet with this and have a flashlight near or just someone near for the pallet save and it's a 100% escape as the killer is forced to get rid of that other survivors. This makes a lose lose situation and not a fair or fun thing to experience (even if this is more swf its dumb)
- Twins... just gonna say that, theres just so many opportunities to abuse everything getting added against this killer. By the time you have traveled over after downing with victor that player is like to have alot of recovery with unbreakable ready for powerstruggle, boil over etc. To get in unhookable spots.
All in all this causes alot of issues, some impacting gameplay other impacting usefulness of perks and offerings which will cause meta and less variation in things being used. THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS IS TO MAKE MORIS MORE COMMON, it doesnt even do that unless you 4k every game. It's an over complicated system causing more issues and not even achieving the main goal.
I could probably find more issues with it but i only read the patch once and going over obvious things the devs should know is about as boring as being slugged for the 4k will be every game.
Why wasnt ivory mori just made base kit but it cant be used through DS (the prompt does pop up) this makes it possible to see a mori every game if you get someone ready for death hook. This would be 100000% times easier to do and achieves what is wanted without forcing boring gamestyles like slugging for the 4k... also remember moris actually rob killers of certain hook perks anyway.
- They shouldn't remove it from the perks, but it isn't too uncommon to have partial kill groupings with a slug and people being forced out.
- I can see this being a concern for the Mori offerings themselves, since you only get the BP value with a Mori ending. I don't think this will make normal matches have it be more common, as slug for the 4k already happens too often (at least in my games as Surv). In those matches the Killer either bleeds out the 3rd Survivor or hooks at 3m59s. At least for Survivors you have the knowledge the Killer will plan on doing that from the offering ahead of time now.
- I agree, and as far as some of the more recent "win" challenges they have been better. One example is the Adept tomes only require the 3 perks to be equipped, and allow a 4th perk of your choosing. You also often don't need to play that specific Killer. As for the older ones allegedly someone from BHVR is going to go through those and adjust them, but it wouldn't hurt to have someone from the community compile relevant challenges.
- Hard agree, they not only provide very bad value (20k max for Iri compared to 40k max Pudding?), but they will incentivize the annoying slug for 4k. I did see another poster have a much better idea that rewarded X per kill when ending with a Mori instead. That wouldn't require the slug for 4k as much since you could force people out of the gates and Mori the remainder.
- Same as 4
- I wouldn't say it killed the perk, since you have a different Bitter Murmur proc on gen completions still, but it really should keep the personal Mori.
- Agreed, it also removes the choice from Killers to hook or Mori that they currently have. Sometimes I want to bait someone into rescuing instead of taking the kill.
- I don't agree. I would ask you review your past matches and count how many times you needed to slug in excess of 45s. Also the adjusted timer with perks is slower than the current UB/B:E speeds. The only difference here is unlimited 22.5s UB. That I don't know how it will play out, and think it would be best to physically test on PTB as opposed to think on paper.
- The math is changed to have roughly the same timer. The current ~30s/ UB ~22.22s would be compared to the new 45s/ UB 22.5s Also if you had the boon and UB the numbers are ~12.75s current and 15 post proposed change. This is technically a nerf to stacking from live.
- Since it still has the same ~22s pickup timer that works the same for both versions, this would be no different from live. Also losing a Survivor at the cost of a permanent pallet being gone is still valuable for macro.
- Honestly fudge Twins and their annoying gameplay, and Power Struggle is no different for Twins from Live. If you down with Victor you cannot switch back to Charlotte and pickup in time to avoid PS even if you are in melee range. As far as unhookable spots go there are only 2 I am aware of, RPD Library and Badham Preschool basement without basement hooks. They deleted the Library, so that only leaves Badham. A quick fix for that is to have a fixed hook where the basement stairs would be if basement doesn't spawn there. As far as corner hooks being destroyed that is a macro failure on the Killer's part. When I play Killer I need to pay attention to gens, hook locations, and what hooks will be removed when I death hook someone. If I death hook near a gate, that may prevent me from getting that kill at the end, so I avoid that.
Overall I think the best solution would be unlocking basekit Moris when you reach 8 hook actions and all Survivors are alive. Then add an extra bonus to the Sacrifice category for these Moris to be able to reach the new 10k cap. This also only gives you Moris when you don't kill people early, but isn't required to win. It just exists for the completionists to get the "100%" BP.
Edit: For clarity - granting basekit Moris -> unlocking basekit Moris.
-
@WipeIncGamingYT said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3206864#Comment_3206864
I am still polite and follow the recipe to happiness.
You also never even attempted to prove any of my claims wrong, or your claims right.
-
I think there are 2 main reasons and you hit on them. "FOMO last time I can do this" and "see this is the problem".
-
I just don't play in a manner that I wouldn't want to face when playing Survivor. If they play in a way that feels cheesy or annoys me they lost my desire to not do that back to them.
There is nothing I dislike more than when they betray my trust. For example taking back the gift item to me when I gave them Hatch/Gate. I have started to injure gate Survivors just be be able to down them should they try anything funny. That being said if I'm looking for Hatch and wiggle you off my shoulder because I gave up, feel free to pick your item back up. I've already alt-tabbed waiting for you to find it.
-
@WipeIncGamingYT said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3206796#Comment_3206796
Your "reason" was that every well thought argument was "doomsaying". You told all the reasons that are breaking the game for yourself, I could just repeat them, without trying to labeling them.
They were not well thought out because it took me seconds to dismantle each claim as false. That makes me believe them to be "Doomsaying", as something that is nothing is falsely claimed to be "doom". I have heard hyperbolic claims that this will remove all Killers from the game, and they utilize those false arguments as the basis.
I gave a counter for all of those examples that are easy to either utilize or work around. That means those complaints have no merit. The issue they are claiming "exists", simply does not. There are only two reasons I can think of. The first is they lack the desire to come up with those counters on their own. The second is they maliciously want to continue 4 minute bleedouts, and will create false arguments to force people like myself to address them, otherwise their lies be treated as the truth.
Since you did not counter my counters then they are either accurate, or you cannot disprove them. Maybe someone else will come along and prove me wrong, but you are basically saying "you wrong" and providing no evidence for your claim. Just as some people like to use the math meme of 1+1=3, based on faulty logic, maybe one of us is making that false claim. I believe myself to be the one saying 1+1=2 however.
-
@Gibberish said:
It's no different than a Survivor disconnecting from the match, only they dont get punished for it. It completely ruins matches.
Honestly probably the best solution would just be to removing the self-unhook attempt mechanic and struggle state mechanic. Unhooking yourself can be an exclusive trait to the Deliverance perk, Slippery Meat and Up The Ante can be reworked, Luck offerings can just be removed.
Addressing the symptoms and not the cause is always a bad idea. Find out why people hook suicide and fix those reasons. You might get lucky with an equivalent bloodletting or penicillin, but nothing beats specialized treatment.
-
@Dr_Emarald said:
Addon changes I want to huntress to make them more fun or rebalanced. These suggestions come from my experience and time spent on the killer, which is at least 1k hours.
Huntress does have one of the better addon collections in DBD, with almost every addon being worth running over the others. There are just a few exceptions to this that I would like changed.
Weighted Head: Increase the incapacitated status effect to 25 seconds, or removed/reworked entirely.
- The current 10 seconds isn't applicable even when you get multiple hits with hatchets in a row. If you land 2 hatchets back to back, and this is assuming you don't have oak haft or any distance for the hatchets, you land 2 hits in around 8-9 seconds. By the time the first survivor has a chance to do anything after the speed boost, the effect is long gone, making the addon dead in the water in terms of usefulness. Very small change, makes the addon worth it for a yellow.
Rusty Head: Change the Mangled effect to Obliviousness (60 or 90 seconds), or rework entirely.
- Right now the Rusty Head addon is 1/2 of another addon, Begrimed head. With the new grind changes, it doesn't take long for killers to start gaining better addons for their collection. This results in addons that do the same effect, getting overshadowed by the clearly better option.
-The reason I do not list the flight speed or haft addons under this same rule, is do to how the arch's of hatchets work. The flight speed addons change those arch's considerably no matter how you play her, and the hafts are the difference between m1'ing a window, and where to aim for your next throw. They result in the killer being different enough to not warrant a change, unlike status effect addons.
Glowing Concoction: Change the rarity from Very Rare to Iridescent
Soldiers Puttee: Change the rarity from Iridescent to Very Rare
-It is in my opinion that glowing concoction deserves to be an iridescent, this is impart to 5 seconds of aura reading letting you counter any mind-games for almost every loop in the game, and being able to reach 7 seconds with lethal. Soldiers Puttee, is worse in comparison. With you having to quite frankly fail at hatchets to get value. In an ideal chase, you have 5 hatchets to get an injure. If you miss all 5, I don't believe you should get any value for it. The only time I see people run soldiers puttee is with the current Iridescent Head variation in the game. Would love for the 2 rarities to be swapped to better represent the killer.
Iridescent Head: Add a distance requirement for insta-downing survivors around 28-32 meters. Remove the maximum carry limit.
Currently, iridescent head doesn't feel like huntress, and doesn't reward good gameplay. The best way to use this addon is down the first survivor, and face-camp the hook with a hatchet so no one can save. This can either be deemed toxic, or just boring to go against. With Deathslinger having a similar addon for rewarding long hits, and the fact there is an achievement resulting around long range downs with huntress, I believe the iridescent Head should represent this play-style of sniping. It rewards good players for taking time with their killer, and the occasional long shot from the more casual huntress player. 28-32 meters, I would make it 32 meters, is also easy to dodge unless the survivor is not paying attention or unaware the huntress knows where they are.
If there is a reason as to why these changes are not possible, or if you think they do not fit the game, I would love to hear why in hopes I can persuade you into adding them.
Weighted Head - Agreed, it needs more time.
Rusty Head - Disagree, I like Mangled for only Green as I don't always need Haemorrhage. Maybe the oblivious for 30/60 on the Flight speed add-ons instead? I don't know of anyone that cares for those to even exist.
Glowing - I would want longer duration if it were Iri personally, but I think Soldier's could be reworked in a different way.
Soldier's Puttee - I would make it give you a % of the speed increase the less ammo you have, based on your carry capacity. With the basekit 5 hatchets you have +.2m/s at 0, +.16 at 1, +.12 at 2, +.08 at 3, +.04 at 4, and .0 at 5. This way the weight for the speed is shifted based on the weight of your carry load. This would be percentage based so if you used capacity add-ons it would be 1/6th or 1/7th instead of 1/5th.
Iri Head - I think the game already has Sharpshooter coded at 24m for achievements, so I think that would be fine for the distance. I am always for re-using codeblocks. I do think it should still reduce total hatchets, maybe by 2 for a basekit 3.
-
@SuzuKR said:
The removal of the ability to suicide on hook is long overdue. It also is a loophole for bypassing the DC penalty despite quitting, which is insanely unhealthy.
There are 3 main aspects that genuinely need to be addressed soon:
- A rework to self-unhook mechanics, so people cannot force themselves to stage 2. For instance, only one attempt with adjusted percent chance, to prevent immediate self-forced stage 2. Or removal of Luck/basekit attempt mechanic and making Deliverance the only and reworking Slippery Meat. Or any other idea.
- The removal of the ability to ignore 2 consecutive Struggle skillchecks to die.
- The ability to intentionally fail 3 Struggle skillchecks to die. Almost no one is going to miss those skillchecks accidentally ever with how huge they are. Make them exclusively for Bloodpoints instead or something that doesn’t affect the remaining time.
I don't like band-aid fixes and symptomatic treatment. This would be treating the symptoms, not the cause. The why needs to be addressed.
Are people sick of the same Killer over and over? (Wow a Nurse after my 5 Blight games in a row, fun /s.) Killer bans can help.
Is the Killer excessively slugging, refusing to end the game? Maybe the slugged Survivor can get hatch if you die sooner. That is being addressed by the devs, and for the strangest reason there is push back against it when all the numbers disagree with the Doomsayers.
-
@danielmaster87 said:
It's the systematic toxification of all things killer. You are literally a second-class player when you step into the role.
Everything you do is toxic and is there to ruin survivors' days, while everything they do is tranquil and pacifist. Those tbags? They're just friendly tbags. That macro? It's just to draw aggro and make you misplay. That post-game chat: "Ez, baby killer"? All in good fun, right? But how dare you play with strategy, you disgusting person! How dare you not let everyone live til the 5th gen is done! How dare you run perks that slow the game down so you can go for more toxic chases! Moris? Those are yesterday's news. Nobody wants to see them, so now we're gonna be seeing them even less, because it's unlikely that you're ever gonna get that last person. Now those killers who spent their toxic bp on mori offerings will get no more unfair in-game advantages!
Killers were being toxic and leaving survivors on the ground, for upwards of 5+ seconds no less, instead of immediately picking them up after downing them, so the devs answered our prayers and gave us Unbreakable for freeeee! Please give us DS next, then Soul Guard, then Adrenaline, because the killers aren't gonna stop tunneling and we deserve a health state after all the work we put in completing the 300-second gens (calculated by all the toxic slowdown perks killers use, among other factors). Soon, no survivors won't be able to escape, and we will have ended the oppression of the cyber bully killers! And we will be the power role... FOREVEEEERRRRR! HAHAHAHAHAHahahahaha.......!
I have never seen a clearer case of a persecution complex than here.
-
@Bran said:
Punishing a bad unhook and then being punished for punishing a bad play doesn't seem okay to me.
While I don't agree with the OP's idea, the quality of the unhook is largely out of control of the Survivors. If a Killer camps then any rescue is unsafe, and a facecamping Bubba built for it guarantees 2k minimum, often 3 or 4k. There are serious design flaws in the hook/unhook system, and are abused by low skill Killers to pad their kill rates. Unfortunately we can't get the Killer basekit buffs we need until camping, tunneling, and early kills are no longer padding the kill rates. Once those abuse cases are removed we can have qualitative changes allowing for Killers to achieve the same results without utilizing cheese.
-
I am against cheesy methods of gaining value, be it camping, 59s unhooks/genb4fren, tunneling, BT bodyblocking, and slugging. Each of those other issues I mentioned have their direct counterparts, so they need to be dealt with in concert, but slugging does not have a counterpart. Typically it is only utilized by the worst cases of BM, like 4 minute slug Killers. Any counter to BM is a good change.
Normal Killers will not be affected by the 45s timer. Doomsayers like to say everyone will bring UB since they will basekit the feature, but I ask how many more or less BTs have you seen since that was made basekit? I personally only find value in BT for lategame saves when hooked far from the gate against a Killer that can't facecamp well. Since STBFL is more meta than ever, most Killers are better at facecamping. Not enough value imo to consistently run.
Another Doomsayer claim is it will be impossible to snowball as Oni or using Starstruck, but you have more than enough time to hook in sequence. In those cases if you knock all 4 Survivors down you hard win, so the best case scenario is 3 hooked or slugged, and 1 standing. With Oni the power lasts 45s basekit, and you lose 7s of power per down. That means if you got 3 downs it happened in the span of 24s, and you have that remaining 21s to pick up the first Survivor you downed. After that hooking the downed Survivors in sequence is quite easy.
Similarly with Starstruck you have a 30s timer that is typically started on hooking Surv 1. In the same best case scenario you down 2 Survivors so 1 can remain standing preventing an insta-win. The worst case scenario for slug timers is the 1st person being downed at 0s, and the 2nd person being downed at 29s. That still gives you 15s to pick up the 1st slug, and the 2nd slug has a fresh timer so no problems hooking there.
Yet another Doomsayer claim is Survivors will both genn b4 fren, and also be ready sitting for the clicky/pallet save. They can only be doing one thing at a time, so lets take the gen claim first. If they are genning b4 frenning then you bought yourself an extra 15s to dink around before picking up in most cases. They are still effectively incapacitated on the floor, and now it takes 45s instead of 30s to reach standable status. If they are attempting a save and you didn't know they were there, nothing has changed. If they are attempting a save and you did know they are there, if they were close enough to pallet save they typically were close enough to get a free injury. Then you can take a 50/50 on a pallet save risking 2 downs or 2 injuries. If they were using a flashlight you can just pick up looking at the wall, again nothing different from normal. This actually is a Killer buff since they need the 45s timer instead of a 30s timer to pallet drop into heal back up.
The last Doomsayer complaint I can think of to address is sabo squads/natural hook deadzones. The natural hook deadzones are either Killer created or a map flaw. The map flaw variety are like old RPD library. That was addressed quite quickly with the Boil Over buff and they also threw the baby Boil Over out with the bathwater. Killer created deadzones are like corner hooks, which I call a macro failing on the Killer's end. Part of the macro skill of Killer is utilizing future potentials, which includes hook states, gens, and the location of death hooks. I know to avoid death hooking near an exit gate in case I need it later, that may take me 5 more seconds to hook in the different spot, but it can save my bacon in the long run. I would say another map flaw would be on Badham Preschool, and if the basement doesn't spawn in main then there should be a guaranteed hook in that basement stairwell corner.
Now as far as sabo squads I can understand not wanting a longer match, but that is more of an inconvenience than a reason to gut the idea entirely. Many of the Killers face sabo squads too rarely and have never attempted it themselves to understand the counterplay. If someone sabos a hook on pickup then the Killer has more than enough time to reach a different hook, and that same saboteur can't beat the Killer to the new hook. That means the best time to sabo is right before the Killer reaches the hook, so they don't have time to reach a new hook. That means there is a very real risk if they drop before 12s of wiggling. The saboteur is usually in a not so great spot since they are that close to the Killer without a useful loop. If multiple people are sabo-ing that means 1 person doing gens, and their toolboxes will run out of juice sooner than later. I love saboteurs in my Killer games because I know when to drop, and when to go to a different hook. That means they are gifting me an easier win since they aren't sitting on gens. You can't buy 33% or even 66% gen slowdown with perks, that is solid gold.
My final reason is because I like the meme of making a lesser version of all of Bill's perks basekit, and we just need 12m Left Behind basekit next. That is a joke though, the rest of the reasons above are serious.
-
@Tony_ said:
It needs a solid nerf. It only awards you. My proposition is:
-Remove speed boost after uncloaking.
First off, there are 2 Iri add-ons, but I believe you are talking about the Silent Bell.
Secondly no, it is a fair reward for Iri rarity, and can easily be countered by paying attention on the Survivor side. It is a bit of a noob stomper since it needs a certain level of awareness that newer players lack.
-
Fair enough, it just seemed to only be off so to speak for my Blight matches, which I have overwhelmingly won within the past.
-
@Whoudini said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3206016#Comment_3206016
I do not want to play a match with 2 or more unbreakables with survs who stand in unbookable corners, it would drag for ages even if I eventually won. Even for optimal use they literally buffed one of the best surv perks in the entire game.
And I don't want to play any match against Killers who facecamp and hard tunnel the unhooked Survivor off of hook even when the other Survivors are willing to take chase. Sadly we can't always get what we want, and UB is an anti-BM perk. You will be unaffected by it if you simply pick up and go to hook. You still have the UB 22.5 seconds to scare people off. Its strength is entirely based around the playstyle of the Killer, and when the Killer hooks people the Survivors simply get 0 value from it. Many other perks have their strength based off of the user of the perk, as opposed to the opposition. The main perks that gain value from your opponents playstyle for Survivor are the anti-BM/anti-bully perks. They only provide the value the Killer decides to gift them.
-
@Pukenplag said:
The incentives seem to really screw up matchmaking. I've been constantly getting random matches. One is with baby killers, next is with 20k hours nurse players. One is against Korean survivors, next is against locker babies.
Like I said though in the previous weeks on the weekend with other Killers I haven't had this issue. It only is happening with Blight this weekend, so I don't know if this is a recent issue or a Blight issue.
-
@Percival_nxs said:
honestly, I have 3000 hours but never like in this period I feel weak and powerless to use this killer, stealth against capable people is almost useless, I literally can't keep up with surv during the game, which obviously in this meta, they use to genrush more than ever, and it is useless to use gen defence perks with him because with ghostface I can not make many hooks against capable people.
The only solution is to go with noed and hope to recover in endgame.
.
I love playing Ghostface and it is kinda hard to explain how to play him. For one, think of DBD as a real time strategy game. You aren't making units for an army, but you are strategically planning out maneuvers and executing them. A mindgame at a loop is one such execution of strategy, as well as which gens to defend, where to hook people, when to drop a chase, and more.
With Ghostface the 4d Chess levels of strategy are put on full blast, and that macro strategy of thinking multiple steps ahead are your main method of winning. Often times it helps to get partial stalks and move on to the next person, chipping away a stalk percentage bit by bit. You also have to be very emotionally stable. If you get flustered or annoyed easily you will lose track of your strategy. It doesn't matter 3 gens popped, it doesn't matter the clicky clicky tbag, it doesn't matter they popped the gen in your face. You must be stoic and unwavering. Honestly he is a difficult Killer to just play over and over again due to continually planning your moves and everyone else's at the same time. The mental fatigue can build up quite quickly. Be sure to play a brainless/autopilot Bubba or Blight game where you just run people down without much thought if in between Ghostie matches you want to still play and are feeling the fatigue.
Aura and intel perks are what make him shine. If you know where everyone is, you know their most likely moves, and can make your moves around them. This can also corral the opposition where they shouldn't be going. Sometimes you want to pop a mark on someone when you don't even plan on downing, just to send them away from a gen/hook and force someone else to respond. The oblivious when marked add-on can also help in getting 45-60s downs on the mark, as they don't expect you to come from a strange angle that late in the mark, and most weaker Ghosties go straight after those they mark, tunnel visioned on getting the down.
Also the only genrush perk, Stakeout, requires a terror radius, so you hard counter it unless you misplay. Prove Thyself is actually a Killer perk, since it convinces Survivors the worst thing they can do isn't that bad. When multiple people are on a gen that is a massive boon for most Killers, and even moreso for Ghostie. This gives you the chance to stalk multiple people at once, as he doesn't have Myers' same limitation of one fixed stalk rate.
Often times you have to take what, for other Killers, would be dumb moves, like approaching from the edge of the map instead of the center. Other Killers like to corral to corners, whereas Ghostie likes to sneak up and instadown from those corners. You also need to be very non-commital to chases. Just because you find someone you don't have to chase them, even if they are marked. Don't fall prey to the sunk cost fallacy when you Mark someone. Sometimes you have to let them go. It is best to take a pallet or injury and move on in some of those cases.
His main strength lies in having as short of chases as possible, preferably hitting people the second after you marked them. His main weakness lies in his time usage. Other Killers might have more time to dink around kicking gens, but since you need to approach from odd angles that is almost throwing to do so as Ghostie. You need pressure from hooks and disrupting rescues, not from slowing gens. You never want to camp them, since the remaining Survivors will pop those gens so quick you won't be able to respond.
One side note is he is one of the few Killers where you can pay to win. Some skins can obfuscate powers, like Plague's blighted skin, some Oni skins, short haired Spirit skins, Hunk, among others. Ghostface is purely about his own stealth, and the Classic skin removes those bothersome cloth strands. Some people claim the red mask is best for stealth, but I don't think it is significant enough compared to a proper lean.
You may notice I haven't explained many of the stalking or crouching intricacies. That is because... they don't really matter. Beyond leaning to stalk, those are style points that can only marginally improve your effectiveness, but not nearly as much as proper planning and strategy. You can also watch nearly any Ghostface Guide video to get those simplistic tips and tricks. The only one of value imo is how to crouch in a moonwalk properly. Sometimes you hard crouch moonwalk, and sometimes you fake a couple back and forths before committing. That is similar to the stand-still mindgame at LT walls that most other Killers can use, and when you force the Survivor to look left right left right that might give you the edge on the side that you approach from. Also sometimes you can use your Shroud to help your mindgames, since it hard blocks your red light. Some of those loops it is strictly better to approach from one angle. If the Survivors catch on, then you can start to approach from the bad angle to throw them off.
As far as perks go I have 2 favorite builds. One is the Shaman build, which is 4 hexes: Devour Hope, Undying, Haunted Ground, and Retribution. This is very feast or famine, and it requires people to fall prey to "it glows it goes". It can work when they don't fall to that also if you can reach 3 DH stacks, then you can ignore stalking entirely and approach with stealth alone. It is much easier though to snowball from an early HG into Undying HG. The best add-ons for this are 1 of the 3 recharge add-ons (time/pallet/down), and whatever else you like.
The second build is what I call the wallhacks build. There are variations but the core is Lethal Pursuer, and Scourge Floods of Rage. Scourge Pain Res can help slow things down a bit since you are already going for scourge hooks, and the last perk is something that feels good. I personally like Bamboozle for those especially troublesome main building windows, but Darkness Revealed, BBQ, or Thrilling Tremors are all also decent. My favorite add-ons are the yellow oblivious when marked, and the iri camera, which gives 7s of aura read on all Survs when you down a Marked Survivor.
Now with all that said the main weakness to Ghostie is SWF. If you think they are a SWF you have to make even stranger plays when you know they have eyes on you. They will call out you approaching X area, so to counter that you have to fake going one direction and sneak around their LOS to go in a different one. That is not possible on most maps, so there really is no working around that.
One final thing is Ghostie is very map reliant. The sweatlord maps of choice are basically the worst Ghostie maps. Most Macmillan and Autohaven maps are super bad when it comes to LOS blockers and methods of approach. Normal chases are fine there, but map traversal is a nightmare. If you want to experience Hell as Ghostface, play Blood Lodge. Even The Game is a better map since they often can't reach a pallet if you marked them correctly.
That is all I can think of. As I said, Ghostface requires an almost entirely different playstyle despite being dressed up as a normal M1 Killer. It requires far more skill, patience, and tactics to effectively pull off Ghostie plays than to do the same with Nurse or Blight. Where most Killers are designed to be good in different ways in chase, Ghostie is designed to be good when never in chase. Most other Killers have that transferable knowledge, and when that transfers over to Ghostie you are sabotaged with substandard results when trying to blindly play that way.
Another thought that just jumped in my mind is another secret strength of Ghostie. The power of memes is a tool for many Killers, but especially so for Ghostface. The tbag is a forbidden art utilized by those filthy Survivors, and you can pretend to join in on the fun. Many Survivors can fall prey to your tricks, and give you value when they think you are just goofing around. When a Survivor reveals you, just stand and look at them disappointed, maybe a shake of the head, and walk off. When they tbag at a pallet, tbag back before kicking it (if they weren't Marked in a position for you to chase). You have the unique position of better pretending to be their friend, and betraying them when they least expect it. Just make sure to give Hatch to the last Survivor so those memes can still work in future games. If you don't, you risk poisoning the well of Survivor trust, and removing memes from your playbook entirely. It is a long con, and will pay dividends if utilized appropriately.
-
@Alcuin said:
There's not a shooter game that this can be compared to. Either they don't allow for one-shot downs, including snipers, or they require enough skill to justify a one-shot down. With DBD, if a ranged attack requires skill, it receives complaints. Huntress can't have realistic hitboxes because too many would complain. She's gotta keep he beachballs. Same thing with Wesker. His hitbox is too difficult, it has to be fixed. Why doesn't this include a nerf to balance his now easy-to-use power, i.e. Why does he still have a one-shot ability?
"Use the spray". And get rid of his aura-reading, yes. If a killer has a one-shot ability, get rid of that killer's ability to read auras. This includes Bubba, Billy, Myers, Ghostface, etc.
If a Killer has a one-shot ability remove their ability to read auras? You honestly want to nerf the likes of Billy, Myers, Ghostface and not the likes of Artist, Blight, Nurse? I seriously question your design philosophy.
Also Wesker is very easy to deal with if you have played him for ~5 matches. You quickly learn that short loops are his weakness in chase, and trash on the floor can allow you to hold W against him. Short round loops prevent power usage, so he is a bog standard M1 Killer and you can simply drop the pallet at the right time. When you see him charging a dash put some walls in the wall between you two. Using the dash drops all Bloodlust, and one Dash is a massive net negative in terms of distance gained on a Survivor. If you force out the double dash near debris you can then make mad distance past him in the direction he came from.
-
@Whoudini said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202832#Comment_3202832
1 guy could hide away from them, a couple of those people could bring the new unbreakable and be up in 22 seconds. Yes the killer will eventually win but it would be a super boring experience. Unbreakable needs to be looked at 22 seconds for an infinite pickup for 1 perk is too much.
I doubt it will be the problem the doomsayers make it out to be, but I think we need to stress test it in the PTB before just outright claiming it will be impossible to deal with. Also if that 1 guy is hiding he isn't doing gens, and if he is doing gens then you can hook him near the gen, which isn't in the corner with no hook. The base problem is still a macro failure on the Killer's end, and they should strive to never death hook in corners or near exit gates. If the Survivor gave up on hook then that is an early kill given to the Killer for free, and the Survivors likely aren't going to win regardless. Failure to account for the potential future of the match is a failure in a player's skill.
-
@Zolfo16 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3205432#Comment_3205432
Again (i know, i probably will have to repeat it a lot):
1) It is not about already knowing what is wrong, it is about ASKING OURSELVES what can go wrong because to me it seem a situation where a lot of thing will go wrong. Another Boil over situation;
2) The issue in my opinion is not with the regular group of survivors, in that scenario the changes proposed probably will work. The issues are with a group that wants to abuse of this mechanic, maybe also lose a game but after 30-35 minutes of they hiding in corners of the map because you can't hook them, of them making impossible to hook because you are constantly harrassed by torches, pallet saves, breakdown, flip-flop, and with an infinite amount of pick up.
3) if you down 4 survivors you 99% win the game even now, the finishing mori only allows you to skip the boring part! But it is a nerf! Now the mori can help you against saves in the third hook scenario, very tiny help, but the finishing mori is not even that.
Prevents ub with 4 men down? Come on! How many times that kind of UB saves the day? Maximum it leads to the 4th guy taking the hatch but who cares?
Finishing mori is a nerf by itself and I do not understand why it is so difficult to aknowledge and why BHVR tried to sell it as a buff for killers.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3205360#Comment_3205360
Removing slugging will damage a lot killers that need to slug like twins, like oni for example. And will damage every killer when they need to slug, not often but in that situation you really need it.
When you have a survivor downed on a pallett and there is someone you have to chase away, when you downed a surv in open ground and there is someone with a torch you need to chase away, now you can't do anything because if you chase away the guy the downed will pick up himself, if you pick up they are going to save!
This will lead to a situation where lighborn and Franklin's will be the only available countermeasures, like with BO and Agi plus IG. The normal gameplay will be unaffected but the bully squad that only want to keep you in a 30 minutes match where they do not do gens but you can't do anything either will have another tool.
This will remove a negative element for survivor creating another more negativ for killers, this is easy to solve. Give everyone basekit UB. REAL BASEKIT UB! That works once! like UB!
Never put infinite stuff in a game! It will be abused!
Twins yes Oni no. If you use Oni's power and get 4 downs you win, so the most you can get is 3. With 3 power downs that takes 7s off of the max power duration each, for 21 fewer seconds of power. That means with Oni's basekit 45s reduced by 21s is 24s spent downing the 3 people. That means you have that 21s to pick up the first person you downed before they pick themselves up. After that you can hook them in the sequence you downed them. Oni is thereby unaffected for legitimate power usage, and only nerfed for excessive slugging. As far as the Twins go, honestly fudge Twins, they deserve it. Although you can still Victor pounce into Charlotte M1 and never risk people picking themselves up.
Are people genning b4 fren or are they threatening pallets/clickies? They can't do both simultaneously. If someone is threatening the pallet/clicky save you have 45s to ward them off and get the injury, which usually would be free if they were close enough to pallet save. Then you can pick the first one up no problem. If it takes you 45s to get an injury on someone close enough to pallet save, then honestly basekit self-pickups are the least of your worries. Also Clickies don't shine through walls, just face the wall before pickup. (Technically they can shine through windows, even closed ones like Dead Dawg, so be careful with those, but otherwise you are safe.)
Never put infinite stuff in the game? Should we remove healing Survs, injuring Survs, doing gens, kicking gens? There still is the 4 minute bleedout and 3 hook stages to kill them with. The limit should placed on hook stages, not the cheesy permanent incapacitation slugging gives.
Also to the first thing you were responding to the other person old Boil Over was never a problem, RPD Library was the problem. They fixed the Library and threw the baby Boil Over out with the bathwater. It was still very counterable even then. Just drop spam near the ledge and the stagger when falling off your shoulder would be so much that they couldn't run back up to their high ground on any map. That was an instance where you could hard prevent a perk from getting the intended value by slowing yourself down a tad bit.
-
@Adjatha said:
BHVR: "We noticed that kill rates are around 50/50, so we'll be rebalancing some core gameplay elements.
BHVR: gives survivors a massively superior version of Borrowed Time and killers 1/3rd of Brutal Strength + 1/4th of Save The Best For Last.
Survivors: pitch hissy fits, mass-disconnects, and throw games constantly.
BHVR: "Good News! Kill rates are now at around 60/40, right where we want them."
Survivors: continue to do what they've been doing.
BHVR: "So, we're going to give Survivors free, infinite Unbreakable. Also, Killer Moris are now one per game, and only on the last survivor, and only as a cherry on top, with zero actual gameplay ramifications."
Boy, I bet that 60/40 is going to stay consistent with sweeping, one-sided gameplay changes incoming!
Very disingenuous. BHVR also removed the 3 possible levels of anti-tunnel and nerfed it to 1 viable possibility. (BT and DS and DH is now BT or OTR or DH.) To be fair they raised the minimum from 0 to 1, but the max was hard nerfed. That was due to the foolish notion Endurance stacking was a real possibility in matches where people are trying to win, and not just meming on the PTB. BT was only anti-tunnel, OTR was only anti-tunnel, MoM was throwing the match to get 3 prot hits, DH was tied to exhaustion, and Styptics were 1/match. They also buffed camping indirectly through the basekit STBFL as you can hit rescuing Survivors before they have as easy of a chance to run away. So the 2 of the scummiest tactics Killers could use were being used and abused heavily.
I do agree that Rancor and H:DH should keep their Moris because I love playing Ghostie and filling my photo album, and as Surv photo-bombing or teabagging in process Mori-d friends is hilarious.
-
@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3204559#Comment_3204559
Nobody is asking for stretched res.
We are asking for sliders so that we don't get motion sickness from playing the game.
Almost EVERY modern game has an FoV slider or an FoV that isn't 60.
This game has 87 degrees FOV basekit, which is arguably 3 less than it should be, but within the safe range for most humans. (Extended screen time is not safe, and that is what most people, myself included, need to seek to fix.)
-
@almofan1001 said:
So let me get this straight...
Survivors get free unbreakable every 45 seconds because in 1 in 20 games a Nurse might slug 4 people to end the game early (happens mostly against 4-man overly altruistic SWF which is good). First off, how does that even happen? Secondly, if you got slugged as 4 men, you probably deserved to lose...
Meanwhile, killers literally have to run gen regression perks on every build to even to have a chance to win a game. That is irrespectively on how they play. It's so prelavant/needed for most of the killers that you might even call it base kit at this point.
So why is gen regression/gen slowdown not part of the killer's base kit considering that it's basically a must nowadays to have a chance to win the game?
The 45s is a killer buff the majority of the time for legitimate gameplay, because it would take 30s to recover before. That gives you a 50% buff to the slug duration before you need to pick up. If you get 4 man slugged now Survivors hard lose, it ends the match, and the Mori animation plays on the last downed Survivor.
I play intel and hard lethality and can win games little to no problem. To practice how to do that I would recommend OhTofu's old autopilot/brainless Bubba build, where you bring Enduring/Spirit Fury/Undying/Crowd Control. I prefer Bamboozle to Undying but to each their own. You just seek out chases and with oppressive energy you down people faster than they can rescue and pop gens. After that basic chicken dinner you can try the pepper of Bamboozle, and expand to different dishes like the Salmon of wallhacks Ghostie (Lethal Pursuer/Floods of Rage/Darkness Revealed/BBQ with the Iri add-on for revealing all when you down a fully stalked person, and the I'm All Ears add-on) to keep everyone stalked and instadownable.
Have to run regression? Gen regression perks are the equivalent of Survivor true 2nd chance perks like DH. Stacking them is smol gendered parts energy to use a colloquial term.
-
@Zolfo16 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202832#Comment_3202832
No you didn't got the point, it is not that this change is problematic for that reason. This change IS PROBLEMATIC but for other reasons!
And i do not want to play in a boring way to circumvent the issues in my opinion is going to create.
Also i didn't like the fact BHVR sold the ending mori as a buff for killers when insted it is a nerf. Killer got nerfed and at the same time survivor got a huge buff! Just simply say it!
Removing negative elements of gameplay have been a long time coming, and as someone who didn't rely on such crutches for my "wins" I will be 99% unaffected, and I listed how I can win the the remaining 1%. I don't believe the change is problematic because it fixes the thing that truly is problematic. Sorry to everyone who lacks the skill to win without abusing bad mechanics, but using your brain isn't that difficult and the majority of times it is fun!
They just did a big meta shakeup and hard buffed the basekit of killers. Now they are adjusting and preventing abuse cases that artificially inflate the kill counts. Once the kill counts are normalized without such abuse cases then more basekit buffs can follow. Behavior has stated they want 60% kill rates for their numbers. Killers massively won the balance pendulum of 6.1.0, and will in all probability still have greater than 50% kill rates (I estimate 58% from the current 61%, or even 64% total from snowballing [Alch Ring Blights and Nurses] with Infectious Fright with the Survivor team giving up early wanting to go next.). Once the dust settles they can adjust further. I highly doubt the majority of Killers slug in excess of 45s, so if you do that in your games then I am glad I play so rarely with the likes you.
-
@Friendly_Blendette said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3204297#Comment_3204297
4m Is like next to nothing. Thats pretty much seeing them on the other side of a wall if your right next to it and thats the only useful case of it.
Yes, but it is close enough for most times where you can hear them but can't see them due to tall grass or low walls.
-
A solid 15% I've seen have done that, which is surprising low compared to other Killer average of ~30%. Nearly half of the Weskers either camp or tunnel less than any other Killer I come across. To be fair I think this is because he is the new Killer and those rough stats will equalize when the only people playing him are mains instead of variety Killers enjoying the new ice cream flavor. Strangely enough the Killers that don't "need" to camp and tunnel are the ones who do it the most, with a personal estimate of 95% Blights and 99% Nurses engaging in either camping or tunneling. Bad players need their easy "wins" I guess. These are anecdotal estimates, but they tend to be true in my games as Survivor.
-
@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3203764#Comment_3203764
That relies on them fouling it up. A good duo will wait for the animation frame and do the save correctly, from 'behind' the locker doors. I've tried exactly this.
They aren't on gens, sure. But I'm not getting a hook, and two others are. This isn't an issue when it's being done by newbies, but solid groups are nearly unbeatable on DDS when they do this, as the double lockers are easily accessible from all but two gens.
There are 2 other survivors in the game, you can just hook them normally until only the clicky meisters remain. After that they will run out of batteries and just die without the risk of gens popping.
-
@Friendly_Blendette said:
Its not a hugely impactful perk and I feel it might be a lil bit of a compensation for it especially on certain killers where finding the guy you downed can be a pain coughcough twins cough. Then have tenacity buffed to also hide your aura on the ground. I mean in general its just a nice thingy to have and not hugely powerful and it can help a bit with losing an accidental slug. Thoughts?
4m would be nice, anymore should be the realm of the perk or another effect.
-
@Chiky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202882#Comment_3202882
and their friends with flashlight right next to them because you can't keep them slugged to go to chase them:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/WHFGFTX3UZSF/38iqvl.png
So are they on gens or waiting for the save? Every time I mention this I get both answers simultaneously. If they aren't on gens they aren't progressing the game, and are losing pallets and other map resources advancing the Killer's win condition more than their own.
-
@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3203541#Comment_3203541
You don't have to tunnel or camp unless you're garbage? I'm done.
Correct! You don't have to. You can choose to play on easy mode, don't worry when I only want to experience the story I pick the easy mode myself, but that doesn't mean you earned a victory by outskilling your opponents. It is just a cheesy way to pick up a "win". Similarly I rarely pick Nurse or Blight (outside of dailies or tomes) because there is no challenge in the victory. Getting a 4k/3k+Hatch as Trapper/Ghostie/Sadako(without basekit Mori cheese)/Dredge/Bubba(the non facecamping kind)/Billy/etc. is far more rewarding and proves my superiority over my opposition.
-
@Mr_K said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202874#Comment_3202874
Scenario
I chase and down a survivor. Before picking up the survivor I notice another survivor out of position. Maybe I downed the survivor near a gen being repaired.
So here we have two options.
Option1: I chase the survivor out of position leaving the slug. If the slug doesn't have the means to pick themselves up that means someone else has to. That third survivor has to come pick up their teammate or risk giving me two hooked survivors.
Option 2: You want me to ignore the other survivor and pick up the slug. The other survivor either hides nearby for the eventual save or gets on another gen. All the while two other survivors are on gens uninterupted.
So, you are telling me that option 1 and 2 have the same amount of pressure because a hooked survivor has as little as a minute to chill on a hook while three other survivors repair gens.
Yeah, ok
No, they are not the scenario I am describing. I am saying you have more than enough time to hook Surv 1 before the 45s timer runs out after chasing Surv 2 (down or injury), and if they are up in ~20s then you know they have UB and can play around it. This also gives you more pressure from the 31-44s mark, since that is the extra timeframe you have been gifted. You also had to sacrifice potential lategame pressure by not hooking them as well.
-
@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/347986/rip-to-all-killer-mains
I don't mind it as a whole, but if it goes live without changes to Twins, double locker flashlights and spots on maps where you can't pick survivors up it's going to be a Boil Over level disaster with people just trolling killers for weeks.
Double Locker Flashlights are easy to counter without slugging. Grab one locker repeatedly till the other Surv runs out of juice. BTL takes 12s so they can't reload the clicky in the time it takes to re-grab. Plus eventually they often screw up because that is a meme typically used by weaker Survivors who can't get normal Flashlight saves. Plus those 2 dinguses are foolish enough to not be on gens, so where is the complaint?
@MigrantTheGreat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202933#Comment_3202933
Your not seeing what killers see. Killers are mainly upset because this essentially is a nerf to killer tactics to gain momentum/snowball and of course risk/reward.
I only slug when the opportunity presents itself. Let's say I got lucky and downed someone at a strong loop with no way to avoid a flashlight. I have no choice but to chase the flashlight and the slug gets up for free with no risk/reward.
Let's keep in mind this will make perks like Knockout and Third Seal completely useless. This will also make killer more of a ######### sweat fest since killers are running out of 'fair' options to gain momentum.
In all reasonable momentum circumstances you can pick up the 1st person after you down the 2nd, hook them, and then hook the 2nd. In extreme examples like Oni if 3 people got downed from 1 power use they only have ~24s of total power time, due to losing 7s per Survivor downed. That 21s is more than enough to run back to the 1st Surv and hook each of them in the downed sequence. (Don't forget if you down all 4 you instawin.)
If the flashlight user distracted you from pickup for 45s without you being able to ward them off I'd say you have more pressing concerns than self-pickups. You are bound to lose that match regardless.
I don't disagree with Knockout (but honestly fudge Knockout users), but Third Seal is a soloq stomper and prevents hook rescues from lower skilled players more than assists slugging. Even then it still is a Hex and people bad enough to be affected by it would be scared enough to search for and cleanse it, similar to Huntress Lullaby. I know this is difficult for some killers to hear, but the "fair" option to gain momentum is using the hook. I know some people are allergic to the spacebar, but you can rebind it since you are on PC don't worry.
-
@TheWheelOfCheese said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202933#Comment_3202933
Survivors got basekit BT and good perks like OTR in 6.1.0 and yet survivors whined and threw a tantrum about the 10% killer action speed buff and reworked DH.
Meanwhile, killers pointing out that making one of the strongest meta perks basekit and buffing it to unlimited uses might cause problems are "crying like babies."
I'll take some of whatever you're smoking, it seems like pretty strong stuff.
Survivors got OTR at the cost of DS, losing the old at best potential 3 anti-tunnel effects (BT DS DH) into the new at best 1 (BT OR OTR OR DH). I think DH change was fine, but anti-tunnel endurance should never cause deep wound. Endurance stacking was a meme that didn't cause you to win, and typically required throwing the game getting MoM active to pull off as well. (BT only after hook, OTR only after hook, MoM 3 free hits for killer, DH exhaustion, Styptic 1/match.) Anyone legitimately complaining about endurance stacking never tried to pull it off in a real match AND win.
I don't disagree with UB potentially being excessive with unlimited use, but the majority of Killers are crying about 45s being too long to hook 3 Survs as Oni from a single power usage (since if they got all 4 they would instawin, so 3 is the most they can get). They also appear to have this strange cognitive dissonance, in believing Survivors will be able to simultaneously gen b4 fren and not pick up, but also be present for pallet saves. You can claim one or the other will happen, not both. (To be fair you can claim a different Survivor could do each, but that would realistically change nothing from the current paradigm.)
-
@usesPython said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202830#Comment_3202830
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/PWZ06JUG1XM7/image.png
In my past 145 survivor games I've only seen 2 Agitations and 2 Iron Grasps. No one in my games runs Iron Grasp outside of basement builds and no one runs Agitation outside of basement builds, Starstruck Wesker/Nurse, or when paired with scourge hooks. And some maps absolutely can get hook deadzones after a survivor dies (Midwitch) or runs Breakdown, it's just that it's a lot harder for survivors to find those deadzones since they don't see hook auras without Saboteur.
In other words, this is a major SWF buff since they can force the map with map offerings, plan ahead to bring perks like Breakdown (Creates hook deadzones), Boil Over (Makes hook deadzones even stronger), Flip Flop (Same as boil over), Saboteur (One person brings it to see hook auras and tells the rest of the team where to run to to make a hook deadzone), and Unbreakable (Doubles the amount of times you can pick yourself up before you bleed out).
Solo Queue on the other hand most of the time you aren't going to be slugged for more than 20 seconds unless your team seriously misplays or you're under a pallet/in the open with a teammate nearby that can try to save you, in which case it's actually a nerf if you're not running unbreakable since you have to recover for an extra 13 seconds and being able to unbreakable more than once per match probably isn't going to get used much in Solo Queue because you need good teammates to be able to force a slug
The only good thing about basekit unbreakable is that it stops toxic killers from 4 man bleeding out a team but the basekit mori changes already did this
TL;DR basekit unbreakable does nothing for Solo Queue and majorly buffs SWFs that want to abuse it
People adapt to changes. Do you have the numbers for when OTR was buffed and DS nerfed both before and after. I don't believe you need those numbers since you can reasonably infer the usage changes. Just as if corner hooks become this apocalyptic event these doomsayers claim it to be then Killers can just bring one of Agi/IG. Even then it would be similar to now how you bring Unbreakable if you think you will get slugged, but you only get value 1 out of say every 10 matches realistically. That value is typically immense and game shifting, but imo not worth the perk slot unless you are playing for money. Also Agi gets you great value when running Scourge Hooks, so it wouldn't even be a losing proposition to bring it.
-
Awesome, good to hear Epic Games Store users finally got removed from the game. (Half-Joking)
-
Legion can get more hits while running, but I feel map mobility is necessary for Hit and Run to be successful.
Wraith is semi-reliant on how strong the loops adjacent to gens are, but he is solid. Stealth 6.0m/s is nice for mobility, but can still suffer when needing to go to the opposite side of the map. His power also can be used at many short loops to deny the pallet, but usually can be outplayed by Survivors. By that I mean it usually is their play to lose, as opposed to your play to win.
Sadako has a teleport location near each gen, but no meaningful chase power and 100s basekit CD on TP locations. Not the best imo, but she can get great value with A Nurse's Calling since her 24m terror radius is smaller than the 28m aura distance. Just be on the lookout for OTR and Shadow-Step.
Dredge is my personal favorite, and lockers are a little more plentiful than gens. This comes with a massive drawback on say farm maps, Haddonfield, Mother's Dwelling as a realm, among others, as each of those maps are very limited to lockers in good places. He also has at least some form of anti-loop, which is basically a fair version of Artist's. Ultimately though in many cases you will be reliant on winning 50/50s, so you need that Psych degree to get true value.
I have used the stealth add-ons for Demo and honestly that feels like a strictly superior version of Sadako. You get massive stealth but you have to set up portals in good positions so Corrupt is almost a must. Also when combined with the wallhacks Iri add-on you get intel for days and don't have to run any intel perks. His playstyle is heavily add-on reliant as the highest tier undetectable is the only one of value imo (Green .5s, Purple 3s, Iri 8s and silent arrivals). Overall it is a toss-up between Dredge and Demo for the most enjoyable imo.
One flaw all these semi-normal stealth Killers have though is they have very loud tells, so often it is better to play a non-stealth Killer with stealth perks instead. It is darn near impossible to mindgame without LOS with Dredge since Dredge is so friggin' loud, the Surv can echo-locate his exact position through walls.
The 2 best hit and run non-stealth Killers imo are Blight and Wesker. Blight has an add-on to make him undetectable during rushing, and Wesker with Spray usage oblivious on one and undetectable on fully infected on another. Blight is just busted OP in general so you can afford meme builds and win without trying against the majority of matchups. Both of them also get decent value from Plaything to make everyone oblivious. This also can help to counter Stakeout Hyperfocus if you are worried about that. Wesker also gets value from repeatedly infecting and leaving Survivors due to the limited Sprays in the match and the permanent Hindered+Power Exposed.
Overall the best killer for Hit and Run is the killer you enjoy playing, since you will also know how to counter them the best when playing as Survivor as well.
-
@MrPenguin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202861#Comment_3202861
You can loop a killer for 70 seconds and still have an extra hit. You can go get healed come back and body block twice without going down. Killers can't afford to wait it out. Its just better than BT.
You're getting hit early because of OTR, killers can't wait it out, so they just hit you ASAP to get it over with. You're still benefitting from it.
That's like saying old DS is bad because the killer left you on the floor. Just because you didn't use the effect directly doesn't mean it's not really good.
Just because sometimes you get hit early doesn't mean much. That's like saying Unbreakable is bad because sometimes they don't slug.
If you were looping the killer for 70s the Survivors were winning that match with or without OTR. If you go get healed and come back for the double bodyblock you wasted 2 people in false chase for up to 79s, 16s from your ally healing you, and only have 2 people on gens. The circumstances where that is better than sitting on gens are little to none. Basically it is only better when 2 people are on the final gen with only 2 slots, You have 1 hook state and the chased Survivor has 2, and you know the Survivor doesn't have Adrenaline, and the killer doesn't have NOED.
That very much is NOT like old DS, because it forced a slug instead of a pickup. You still got value, and if you had UB you can pick yourself up without a teammate rescuing you. Old DS didn't get 0 value because another perk or feature got value, and it often allowed another perk to get value with it.
Sometimes you get hit early - Skilled enough Killers almost exclusively swing when they can't hear you when they plan on tunneling so often you never get OTR endurance value. That isn't sometimes, that is most of the time.
-
@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202903#Comment_3202903
We're not supposed to care about the other side's feelings when the goal is to win. This is fake virtue signaling that's been done to death. We don't have to be jerks for no reason, which is what you were attempting to argue, but you're drawing on examples of things that are toxic and you claim they're not, and things that aren't toxic that you're claiming are. It's crazy to me how you think the killer slugging, camping, and tunneling is meant for BM rather than strategic advantage, but you excuse tbagging and clicking, conveniently the survivors' BM, and admit that it's to make the killer angry so they misplay.
I'm comparing things you have to do in order to win with things you don't have to do to win. Survivors being toxic isn't a "mindgame". THAT would be being a bad sport, not all this other stuff you're saying. "Draw aggro." Please, as if you can't do that without clicking and tbagging. And like, are you still mindgameing in the endgame chat when you're being toxic, making the killer misplay in other games that you have no business being involved in? But it's the same with killer. Hit someone on hook once, they get the benefit of the doubt that they don't want to hear the scream over everything else. Hit them on hook multiple times, and that's clearly BM. You can let someone bleed out and it be toxic, but if they're the ones who crawled to a hook deadzone and refuse to leave, it's very much their fault, not the killer's.
Y'all talk a big talk, and smoke the Sherlock Holmes pipe as you're delivering your intellectual dribble, but at the end of the day you're just defending bullies, and calling people bullies who are just playing the game without any foul intentions.
I listed unique interactions for Killer and Survivor, and Killer has more unique interactions that can be used for BM. Killers and Survivors both can "taunt" in chase, so that isn't unique. I will say you seem to disagree with yourself when you say "We're not supposed to care about the other side's feelings..." then also claim in the same post claim clicky clicky tbag during chase is toxic.
Comparing things you have to do to win - You don't have to camp or tunnel to win unless you are garbage at the game fullstop. I regularly win my games going for the ole 2 hook tango (2 hooks each Survivor) before I go for kills. Anyone claiming otherwise clearly lacks the skills required to win without using the easy way out by hard camping and tunneling.
In the case of the 4 minute bleedout due to no hooks that is on the Survivor and it is their choice to distract the killer in the corner of the map instead of taking a hook. I was speaking to the intentional "average Nurse player gameplay" downing everyone and letting them bleed out when you know you can hook them. In the middle ground equation if it is the last Survivor who was slugged for some time now and Hatch is closed I can't quite blame either side. The Killer did the right thing in killing everyone else and once they closed Hatch the onus is on the Survivor to not wiggle if they want to not wait out the Bleedout. If the Survivor does wiggle and run back to the corner it is clear they chose their method of death.
Also I never defended endgame chat being a sore winner. But I will defend now calling someone out for their BM. If you call someone a loser for BMing you are well within your rights, it just can't cross the line into the full on legitimate Harassment (dox/death threats) not only because it is wrong, but also because it is bannable. Edit: Also you can turn chat off and never look at it, so both sides have agency in never being insulted in the first place.
Also to your final line about "calling people bullies who are just playing the game without any foul intentions." I would quote Dr. Julian Bashir.
"Causing people to suffer because you hate them... is terrible. But causing people to suffer because you have forgotten how to care... that's really hard to understand."
-
@danielmaster87 said:
Killers have never been able to BM survivors more than survivors have been able to BM killers. In addition to that, survivors are easily more notorious for BMing the killer, with or without anything that comes close to justification.
Hard false. I consider actions that have little or no agency for the other side of the interaction as BMing. The only action Survivors can take that removes all Killer agency is tbagging at the exit gate. That however is limited to 2 minutes max, and the Killer doesn't need to watch the Survivors tbag. The Killer can even hit them to force them out early, taking ~22s to get rid of all 4 Survs (~32 if they all perfectly time DH or otherwise use one instance of Endurance each).
Killers on the other hand can 4 minute bleedout slug. They can also facecamp on hook. They can also hard tunnel off of hook, facecamped or not. So Survivors have 1 instance of giving no agency BM that can be cut short by the victim. Killers have 3, with 1 instance of no agency end early BM and 2 instances of no or low agency from the victim. (Facecamping can give up on hook to end BM early for the victim, but that benefits the Killer. Tunneling in deadzones with no pallets/vaults is no agency, low agency if they already got deepwounded and reached a loop/vault. Bleedouts can be countered by pickup perks but those are typically limited.)
Any other gameplay acts are like an MMO taunt to draw aggro. Alternatively they are the equivalent of trashtalking to put your opponent on tilt and snowball misplays. Prime example for Survivor being clicky clicky tbag at a vault. The Killer still has agency and can outplay the Survivor and do their own trashtalk equivalent with nodding or shaking their head. Like "nono you vaulted too late" or "yep you suck, I got that hit before you dropped the pallet".
-
Easy fix, Victor within Killer Instinct range of dying Survivors prevents dying recovery (or slows it). Crawl away first, but then the Twins can hear when you go past the distance and swap back accordingly to get Victor to tbag you again. Alternatively allow Victor to latch onto Dying survivors like Lockers to prevent recovery and to put Victor back in your chest when you grab them, also like Lockers. The Survivor can destroy Victor just like breaking free of a Locker and can then start to recover. Honestly though, fudge Twins. I'd be fine if they don't get adjusted.
-
@Araphex said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3200939#Comment_3200939
It's actually 11 seconds with Boon: Exponential and Unbreakable together. Add No Mither, 10 seconds. throw in a survivor being downed next to a pallet and other survivors are crowding it. Happens more than you think.
Actually the math is additive, not multiplicitive. It works like this. 45s/(100% or 1.0) and if you get +200% bonus from Unbreakable and Exponential that becomes 45s/(300% or 3.0) or 15s.
If you honestly expect people to run UB/B:E/NM and say Soul Guard or Power Struggle as their 4th perk, then I got this sick trick to counter that. It's called the spacebar. You don't even need a perk like Shattered Hope to counter it. It comes basekit with every killer.
-
@Mr_K said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3200959#Comment_3200959
You do know that slugging a survivor to immediately chase another is a slow down tactic early game? You force another survivor to get off a gen to pick up their teammate while you chase another. That's three survivors not working on gens. If survivors can pick themselves up nobody is going to come for that save so you are forced to abandon chase on a survivor to pick up the slug. All the while two other survivors never stop holding M1 on a gen.
The ability to create early game pressure is now lost.
You know you get that same pressure when they are hooked right? That also puts them on a shortened timer of 2 minutes total, 1 minute per bonus hook state. You also know there are a variety of perks that gain value on hook right?
In the normal case of 45s you have more than enough time to get an injury on the theoretical Survivor hovering the pallet, and then get the pickup. Heck, even with 22s you have that time available. If they are close enough to go for the rescue they are close enough to get a free injury. Any slugging in excess of 45s is honestly just BMing and should be punished accordingly.
-
@MrPenguin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3200884#Comment_3200884
BT didn't get dropped just because it's basekit.
BT got dropped because Off The Record is better.
Yeah it's so good when someone can proc the basekit BT and I lose the Endurance from OTR as well due to deep wounds. Super fun and useful effects. Honestly it does more to annoy me when I run aura builds on killer rather than anti-tunnel effects since the 80s lasts forever when you are snowballing and they still did a conspicuous action.
-
I echo Cybil's sentiment but would also ask to allow the Killer to choose which Survivor to Mori/Mercy in the case of a multi-Surv slug. I shouldn't have to fight tooth and nail to get the fun Survivor to follow me and get them falsely accused of "working with Killer" just because I wanted them to get hatch compared to the Surv who annoyed me.
-
@Dito175 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202829#Comment_3202829
I remember people saying " Omg!! 25s of Bt that's so busted!! Devs must hate killers!!!". Who's using Bt now?
That is exactly my point. The majority of people no longer use BT, and the majority of people will have no reason to need to run Unbreakable.
-
@AetherBytes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202789#Comment_3202789
Someone didnt read.
Did you not like how Survivors can pick themselves up? Did you ignore the listed counter I gave to prevent pickups, self or allied? It was more of a cheeky joke for anyone reading it, not a directed response to your precise claims, but the overall message fits perfectly. Also even if you needed to slug for pressure to shove someone off of a gen you just show back up at the 20s mark and you still prevent perk bonus speed self-pickups. Killers should always be hooking Survivors after they down them, and shouldn't be able to rely on them being permanently incapacitated and slower than crouching without intervention. Also Killers received the massive buff that is 6.1.0 which hard buffed camping and tunneling in addition to legitimate gameplay. This curbing of excessive slugging will only hinder BMing Killers, which is a net positive. Note that I am against BMing regardless of side, and would also like a personal exit gate block for 30s when you crouch randomly more than twice within the exit gates. (Minimum 3 to account for legit crouching such as dodging ranged attacks, or the double crouch "thanks for the heal" to your teammate.)
-
@Zolfo16 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202820#Comment_3202820
The point isn't winning or losing, the point is participating in a game that revolves around that situation and that will take 30-35 minutes to be solved because you do not move from the 3 gens and they keep resurrect.
If 3 people are hiding in the corner preventing the hook from the death destroying it, you can injure all 3 and then down them in sequence. They can't rez anymore since the game will auto-end. It doesn't add any new abuses that weren't already present from 3 gen games where people tap gens and run upon hearing the Terror Radius.