martin27
martin27
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- martin27
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/589354#Comment_589354
Kind of. There is definitely probably still stuff to discover in the game. I mean, people are still discovering new tricks in games like OG Doom and stuff. But the catch is that the game is still evolving from a design standpoint. We get new killers, new perks, new maps, updates/changes to the game, etc. So when it comes to undiscovered or uncommon dynamics, it will take longer for them to come to fruition. If the game was just left as is for a long period of time (I'm talking like years, not weeks or months) then the emergence of new stuff will be more frequent.
Like every time there is an update to the core mechanics of the game (ie. window vaults) then things need to kind of reset and get back to where they were previously before new things can really be pushed out to the general community.
The point i'm making is i do best against the killers i've put the time into to play as. I've learnt the counters from having them used on me, i've also learnt to counter some of the counters. I don't think the nurse is the be all end all killer of the game and survivors need to learn not nerf.
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Looping can be problematic but some tips are know where the loop points you need to avoid are. Try to force the survivors into a 3 gen situation. Go for a lunge even if you know you won't hit. Most survivors won't pass up an opportunity to drop a pallet on a killer, and will waste it
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I didn't know this was a bug, i don't see it a whole lot so i thought maybe it's the games way of telling me i need a bit of help.
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@Shaped said:
So you are being toxic just to prove something? There are other ways to do it you know.
Who are you referring to?
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Sometimes i have to rely of those safety pips when getting tunneled/camped or being paired up with potatoes.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/589326#Comment_589326
But see, that's just players figuring out the dynamic. When the game first came out, these dynamics didn't really exist because players didn't understand the game. Now we do, and as such those dynamics evolved naturally from just understanding the game better. No one steered the game to do anything, you have to think of it as looping existed in the game since the beginning but it wasn't discovered until player skill got to a certain point.
Like, electricity has existed since the beginning of the universe, just humans didn't discover it until the 19th/20th century and now we have computers and stuff because we understand how electricity actually works and can take advantage of it for our benefit. In theory we could have been using it thousands of years ago, but we didn't have the necessary understanding to do so. Not the best example, but it adds to my point.
Could that theory not be apply to the nurse? The counter play for the nurse has always existed but since only a handful of players play the nurse and have the best understanding of her the majority of community haven't figure that out yet. Wasn't botany considered witchcraft by people who didn't understand it.
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@gantes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/589316#Comment_589316
Please don't use this argument.
You can't say people "can't be bothered to learn" when you're talking about people consistently at red ranks and playing this game for years and expect it to stick.
I got to purple ranks and above too when I learned to counter looping, because it's a pretty basic skill. People sitting on red ranks for years still get cucked by moris or omegablink Nurse.
And no, the devs wouldn't do something if it had no counterplay, because their balance, as much as it's been getting better, is still far from perfect and there's still busted stuff in the game.
True not everyone but i do feel like there is a large number of players (killers/survivors) with that mentality. Mori's should be limited in how frequent/how effective they are. I don' like them they make the match unprofitable, but every so often i might throw one in for fun.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/589290#Comment_589290
No it couldn't, because the game is ultimately about time efficiency. Looping is like a clock, you can do X amount of loops before the killer catches up (assuming you don't mind game/juke for extra time). The X depends on the type of loop, and the type of loop determines how much times is spent to complete the loop.
Stealth, on the other hand, is not as clear cut. You can spend ages searching an area for someone, or seconds. There is no consistency to it. There is no way to say "it will take the killer this amount of time to find a survivor" because there are too many factors to consider. Yes, it is another dynamic of the game but it's not one that can be planned for. Devs can design loops in a very mathematical way to synergize with this dynamic. They can't exactly do this for stealth, at least not without making it arbitrarily more easy/difficult in the process. So it makes more sense to opt for a more neutral approach to stealth, where it's considered but not explicitly the basis for the design.
As for EGC, that's an evolution of a flaw in design, specifically the fact that the last survivor can just hide indefinitely and draw out the game, or the fact that if both players stand on the hatch neither can really act without losing the encounter, so they are just stuck in a stalemate indefinitely. Survivors didn't do these things because they wanted to, they did them because those were the only options. So the design was changed so that these situations don't exist anymore.
You make a good point, i might not agree with all of it, i feel like they early days were more about stealth then survivors learned how useful looping is and steered the game in towards that direction.
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@gantes said:
OK, here's the thing.
Forcing people to avoid interaction is poor game design.
Especially in a game like DBD, where the action part is the most fun for the overwhelming majority of players.
It's OK to like stealth, it's not OK to force people to play immersed because they're going up against something overpowered/with no counterplay when the killer actually finds you.
If there was no counter play the devs would do something about. The problem becomes "how willing are the players to learn the counter play?" I couldn't figure out the counter play to looping and said i think it needs to be less effective. Then a survivor told me how i was wrong and told me how to counter it. Now i'm back in the game at purple ranks
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@Shaped said:
I like when every side have fun game but if there is only one gen left or I am in a bad situation tunneling has to be done. Tunneled survivor can still pip or avpid depiping at least.
I wouldn't expect the killer to give up and give me an easy win. But even if i think the killer deserves at least 1 kill i am still going to attempt an escape or a rescue. Sometimes i pull it off sometimes the killer gets a second kill. Right at the beginning when there is no pressure on them is forcing another player out of the game the right thing to do?
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@thesuicidefox said:
@Gardenia @Sluzzy You are both wrong. Looping is a dynamic that emerged from the game's mechanics. It's not something anyone forced, it's a natural evolution of the game's design. Therefore, as developers, it makes sense to take this into consideration when designing new killers, perks, maps, etc.
IDK if you noticed, but new jungle gym tiles were added to Red Forrest maps. These tiles allow for looping, it's just in a different pattern than the old loops. Where the old loops were basic circles or figure 8's, the new loops are more complex (I know one looks kind of like a butterfly if you look at the loop from above).
This is the devs having a better understanding of the looping dynamic and then trying to create new gameplay spaces that fit that dynamic.
You say it's an evolution of the game but that evolution could of been more stealth focused if the survivors choose that route of gameplay. EGC is an evolution of survivors decided they just going to cause hatch stand offs instead of doing gens.
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@Gardenia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/589244#Comment_589244
Still don't agree, just because Survivors lobbied for something doesn't mean its all the Survivors. There are devs with minds and common sense who made this game if they wanted to do something they would, map design is not a survivors fault, hook bleed out times and mechanics are not a Survivors problem. A killer having a sucky power with 110% Ms is not a Survivors problem
If they are not a survivor problem then why do they complain about then so much?
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@Gardenia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/589215#Comment_589215
Realistically, trying to be "stealthy" doesn't always work and you get killed anyway.
This isn't saying I don't try to be stealthy, but no killer just ups and leaves, if they even see the slightest scratch marks or a gen is being worked on they will search around, in lockers, and the entire area surrounding it. If you factor in the fact when you hear their terror radius, they're already very close to you so you're not going far, and when they find you you will engage in chase.
So if you play "stealthy"/immersed, and stick to Gens you will still be found because teammates die, resulting in you being the only Survivor left, with hatch found by killer and the new EGC you do that, you can be screwed over easily.
If like you say a killer is going to search the area, isn't that the perfect time to make an escape, when he's distracted. You can play for stealth but plan for a chase. Being in a wooded area or in the cornfield is a great place to lose a nurse. Lery's has walls the nurse can't blink through. I've seen plenty of survivors who think they're safe by a pallet and get punished for it but in a big open area the nurse can't predict which direction i'm going to go
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I can do pretty good as a killer to get 3k or 4k's most games without tunneling or camping but will do those things when i need a bit of leverage. At the end of the day i remind myself there is a actual real person on the other team to avoid becoming a toxic player. I just see so much of a killer tunneling myself or someone else to death when they aren't under any pressure.
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@Gardenia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/589206#Comment_589206
Which is exactly why I said it's a game design problem, which thanks for agreeing with me. Those people are just playing the game as Survivor just as players who are killer are just playing nurse. So yes the game design isn't very good. I agree swf, is OP as well but just because you have an OP killer going against OP swf Survivor, that doesn't mean any of it is balanced.
So yes, the game design needs an overhaul and nurse needs to be tuned down.
The nurse has been turned down, she use to have 3 blinks at base and a short stun time after a blink.
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@Gardenia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/589202#Comment_589202
"Don't get into a Chase"
Wth type of advice is that? You're bound to get in a chase with a killer sooner or later and you also just conceded that you can't do anything when in chase with her in the first place. Breaking LoS barely works as in order for you to do that, you'll leave scratch marks or blood when you do so and any decent nurse will still find you.
Aura perks are also a thing now too, and also not everyone plays swf so this coordination with barely any verbal communication is limited.
I've had games where the killer has never seen me. If you think the killer is coming towards you leave. Equip lightweight or urban evasion. Have you made any attempt to try these tactics
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@[Deleted User] said:
Well, I thought this was obvious, but the wounded survivor/ recently unhooked is logically the weakest target.
True but when you have the option of all 4 being in one place why not mix it up. If you think a certain survivor is an easy target why not take the opportunity to go after one of the more difficult ones.
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@Gardenia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/589190#Comment_589190
Survivors didn't "Choose" anything, it was all in the developers hands to stop it when it began. But the devs now fully fledge acknowledge this as a feature of the game.
Someone else in this thread said that Nurse is like an airplane compared to other killers who are cars, and I completely agree. She bypasses nearly everything, and honestly that should not be the case.
You're right the devs didn't stop it because the survivors pushed for it. Also how many nurses do you run across for it to be an issues because i barely see a nurse
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@Gardenia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/589186#Comment_589186
It's not about the Obvious "Bugs" and unintentional cheesing of a chase. It's about the ability to BARELY DO A GODDAMN THING WHEN IN CHASE.
Don't get into a chase make a character build with a focus on disappearing quickly, coordinate with team mates to make noise when you break sight with the nurse
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@Gardenia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/589174#Comment_589174
And? That's not a Survivors problem, just a game design problem.
It's a survivor problem because they pushed for the looping meta. Most people avoided using the nurse because of the skill required. Now with looping the nurse is the best option so people are learning to play as nurse because so many other killer can't compete with looping. Survivors choose looping to be the meta now they have to accept that they've forced the increase number of nurse mains.
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@CornChip said:
Strategy? Its a scumbag tactic used by a killer to make them feel like they are good at something.
It can be a strategic choice which is the why the devs don't ban it. But like a lot of things now it feels like a lot of people will use it for toxicity.
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I have fun playing stealthy, i also enjoy the unknown of what i'll be up against. Yes it can sometimes be unfun when facing someone completely over powered, that goes for both survivors and killers. Matches aren't that long and ultra rare add on's are just that ultra rare. So many survivors will just give up and dc or suicide as soon as they see something they don't like instead of keep playing and learn how to be better at the game. Then they're making the game unfun for their team who now have to play with 1 less person.
What's fun?
- Playing the game
- Getting rid of totems to avoid NOED
- Making an attempt to save the randoms so they can help you.
- Experimenting with perk
- Learning how to beat high tier killers
- Doing all of the above to win a match.
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@ClickNinja said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/582771#Comment_582771
Why don't you READ the full thread? As a solo survivor at mid ranks I still have lots of matches where I'm the only one doing gens. The others just run around, getting downed and trying to unhook other players (while injured) in front of the killer.
It's not the killers fault your team mates are bad. You have 50/50 chance to get the hatch, the person who does wins so it should be hard for people to escape after it closes. If the killer has the chance for 4k why shouldn't take it. If you decide to quit playing thats on you not the killer who play the game the way they're suppose to.
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I'm not saying they can't do that or even that they shouldn't but to just to think about it if that is how they chose to play. As i mentioned in the post i read that person knew exactly how toxic they were being and justified their actions by saying they got fed up of being camped and tunneled as a survivor.
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@ThanosHatesDBD the point i'm getting at is a killer main who doesn't like the idea of camping won't camp. They won't say that camping should be punished because they'll now that sometimes you may need to or find yourself in situations where they are camping.
A switch like myself doesn't camp hooks unless a situation calls for it like 0k's by EGC or having all 3 survivors at the hook. I don't like how often i get camped by inexperienced killers, unskilled killers who are happy with a cheap/easy kill rather then learning or just straight toxic players. My opinion is camping shouldn't be allowed early on in the game but not to punish every form of camping because sometimes it's legit.
Then there are survivor mains who only know camping from their POV and accuse every killer who uses camping as a toxic or unskilled killer. 1 person goes on the hook and all 3 survivors storm the hook and won't leave giving the killer no reason to leave. That killer is a dirty camper and should be punished in their mind because they don't have the killer knowledge to see their bad playing caused the person to die.
My point is killer main won't want to be punished for it.
Switches are 50/50 on if camping should be.
Survivors mains posing as killer mains will absolutely want to see it punished.
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@CoffengMin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/587442#Comment_587442
i barely play killer
So you'll be low rank and most likely be pitted against new players, that kind of gameplay might drive away new players intentional or not. Not that long ago someone posted how they would intentionally play as the most toxic LF and camp and tunnel all the new players, making sure that they never ranked up. They also boasted about how they would bait the people in chat afterwards just so they can get them banned.
I'm not saying you're type of person but you know sometimes they're are valid reasons when people complain about camping and tunnelling
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@noneofyourbusiness said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/587602#Comment_587602
This means, you suck as a Nurse, no offense
@noneofyourbusiness i do take offense because i'm not some cry baby survivor that can only complain about high tier killers. I had to play the nurse before they fixed her and all survivors had to do was run to a multifloor area of the map to escape. I got plenty of experience with the nurse to know what the counter play is and how to beat the nurse and if survivors can't be bothered to learn anything other then to loop everything that's on them.
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It's good if you want to deny points to other survivors who only want to farm you.
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Blocking someone in play for an extended period of time. Basically making it so someone else can't play the game
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I don't think you actually lose the pip it just shows you that you lose it.
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I don't know who these fog whisper's are but i've heard plenty of people complain about them.
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@PinkEricka said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/587620#Comment_587620
@Rizzo90 No I don’t bother reporting anymore because every time I report someone on this game, literally nothing happens.
I see the same people running around.
I still have the PSN name so I presume that would be enough. I’ve also tried contacting support about being held hostage in the basement awhile back by a nurse and they told me to just use the in-game report system.
If 50% of the playerbase decided to ignore using the report system then the devs are going to think the problems aren't as bad as they are. Then they're going to focus their efforts on what looks like the bigger problems. Letting people like that killer get away with it for longer.
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The post sounds like they didn't bother with reporting which in it's self makes things worse
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You're right it wouldn't work, we can't even keep a dislike button. My point still stands nerfing everything isn't the answer, people need to stop with the nerfing post and be doing them to improve stuff.
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@noneofyourbusiness said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/587591#Comment_587591
What is wrong with this friend, can you enlighten me?
I've played the nurse i don't think she's broken
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No they don't need to nerf anything, nerfing isn't the answer to every problem. i will say that the reporting system could be better and bans need to be harsher
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Shrine of secrets, spend AC on perk you already have get free bloodpoints. I'll occasionally do that if i'n not looking forward to the grind.
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It may not be, but probably is considering the reasons given for the argument
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I get that the new rework for the perk is buggy and that it needs fixing but don't forget that the survivors that want it to be fixed abused the hell out of it and used it to bully all killers. You'll just have to wait for it to be fixed like so many killers had to wait for MoM to be fixed the first time
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That's my point the nurse is OP because survivors ...(insert any 1 of the bad decisions the survivors made here)
You get better by learning from your mistake not by keep making same mistakes and cry foul.
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Let me give you a run down of just how OP base kit nurse is from a match i had a couple of weeks ago as a base nurse. Playing as the nurse and came across survivors fix gen at basement shack. Downed survivor and hooked in basement, 5 seconds later the remaining 3 storm the basement. I injured all hook grabbed 1 and downed the hooked person again. One survivor leaves blood trail to lock i grab other goes for the unhooks, 1 goes down on the stairs as i'm taking locker person to hook. 2 people back on hook one hides behind a tree next to shack bleeding and moaning over the place and the other decides to try loop the shack. Down the loop person then down the person doing a really bad job of hiding, all 4 were purple ranks.
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@Claudette_Baguette said:
Nurse as a whole is broken. Her blink just completely counters anything the survivors have to escape (pallets, windows). And good nurses have no trouble tracking and hitting survivors whatsoever, even with no addons.
She needs a rework. Keep her blink but rework it so it has a counter to it. Maybe give her more movement speed but give her blink a cooldown and not let her blink through obstacles anymore.
It's not like the nurse has a cool down after a blink that forces her to look at the ground or anything... oh wait she does. Stealth is the counter play, no being predictable and always running to loop point is the counter play.
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I had people call me a tunneler and my response has been "you were just tea baggin and flashlight clicking so much i thought you wanted my undivided attention". So many people will try to get the killers attention and then complain when they get. Sometimes tunneling comes a killers lack of skill or knowledge. Sometimes killers are just being bad word. Sometimes i get called a tunneler because i just happen to run into that survivor. How do you punish the killer that are just being bad word vs those that are subject to chance, new or giving the survivor what they wanted?
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Don't want to go from healthy to dying from hiding in a locker? Don't hide in a locker
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i got 2 4k and 2 3k and got over 80k bp, i didnt pip but boy was it easy.
Are you a regular killer or a first time killer?
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@Ksoni said:
Wanna get more points? Play killer.
I'd take any points
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@purebalance7 said:
"Dedicated servers will fix it" except they were way more laggy.
Will dedicated survivors fix the BPS i lost because it. Lag hit by a killer 30 seconds in and camped and tunneled to death shortly after.
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@Bravo0413 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/586373#Comment_586373
Same.... still would feel good if they allowed the hooked person to kick the the person trying to farm or is just plain potatoe
Won't help against the 1 guy who is going to keep looping the killer around your hook giving no one else a chance to save you.
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@GrootDude your right there will be killers that don't like it but anyone who has put the time in will know there will be times where you won't be camping but they won't have to leave the hook either. No killer is going to ask to be punished for camping the hook at the times they might need to camp or ask to punished when they're not camping either