lemonsway
lemonsway
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i've possibly had two occurances of this issue, one against a Wesker earlier today and just a few moments ago vs a Freddy. Which is weird because these 2 situations aside i've been getting good value out of DH. I helped a teammate escaped because i DH'ed a hit intended for him, allowing him to keep running for exit and i got my speed boost aswell, so it's not my timmings that aren't good. Against Wesker i guess it's possible i missed time it but against Freddy just moments ago i know i had the correct timming.
Whatever it is it does feel weird.
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@Grandpa_Crack_Pipe said:
The one risk of running Empathy is watching someone run to a corner and Self Care.
With 2 stacks of Pentimento.
And Sloppy.
Twice.
Yeah it's obviously dumb to try selfcare in that scenario but remove that scenario and the perk is made pretty useless unless you're running bite the bullet to juke killers midchase. I can't count a time where i've had a decent play where i escaped killer, self cared and helped someone else right away. Right now i'm still healing before i can help the team... Unnecessary nerf.
I'm a big fan of Renewal, 20 seconds to fully heal is not a long time and assuming i'm not getting tunneled right away then i'm definetly getting healed. The requirement isn't a biggy either, just get a rescue, which for me is kinda easy i'll even gladly take the trade knowing that 20 seconds later i'm safe and i gave whoever i rescued time to shift W to somewhere else.
I also like Inner healing, it's benefitial to me since i do pay attention to totems. But having to find a totem everytime i want to heal is alot of travelling time that should be spent in something a bit more relevant.
The strength of self care is the ability to heal without requirements.
Oh and Mangled was reworked to make healing slower and interruptions eat away at progress so trying to self care with Mangled is a big risk. And if you get interrupted then it's an even worse time loss.
I'd gladly nerf Medkits and restore self care.
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Because the game's Tutorial only teaches about doing gens....
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Gens are fine by themselves, the problem is the modifiers. I'd even go back to 80 second gens and just tune down all gen speed/time modifiers.
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The point was to have 2 RPD's instead of 1. Double the FUN....
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I don't wanna buy him at all, i'm disapointed it's Wesker and i didn't even get to play him in the PTB... queues times were infinite.... The only thing i can say is my god Distressing on him is absolutly disgusting! Playing against him on maps with 2 floors is quite the experience.
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Reveal Mechanick is WACK and always will be until BHVR stop using a % of the body on the middle % of survivors screen.
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At survivor? Probably 3.
Ghostface - 7
Sadako - 5
Legion -6
Spirit - a legit 10! 2 matches only got 8 kills. I'm best spirit in the world. My Spirit MMR is probably OVER 9000 right now so i better to not queue for a third match.
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Forget about Comp DbD, Comp DbD is the perfect place to scream about Camping and Tunneling, it's not high level play at all. It's just a matter of who gets camped and tunneled first, and harder...
Comp DbD and the idea of Comp DbD itself is a joke. They prepare themselves for a 1k with the possibility of a 2k and that's a Win for them because their whole system is based on Point Rewards for actions and not letting survivor get rescues or heals is alot of points survivors don't make. Therefore the best way to win in Comp DbD is to make sure someone is not getting anything at all and to guarantee you get your kill points.
It's why the JP BHVR endorseded DbD ps4 tournament had a Pig as the winning killer...Tunneling active RBTs and preventing them to get them off meant getting kills without having to hook even and they used the busted add-on combo aswell...
Comp DbD is the worst thing for DbD pathwise and Balance wise. The game was never designed with a Comp scene in mind and it will never go Comp like that cause there's no way to do it.
Whoever you think is the best X killer i can guarantee you it's not a streamer, it's some random guy or girl we've never even heard of or seen. Somewhere out there exists a Console Nurse so Clean that will put PC bros to shame.
Regarding OG Post:
You have all the incentive to go for hooks already, the issue resides mainly in how survivors have absolutly nothing to do besides the gens and doing the gens is the easiest most boring thing they can do. They need to give survivors more incentive to be in chases and explore the map and create more chances to interact with the killer without that impacting their sense of objective progression and their ability to survive.
Limiting DbD to a simpler game might work. Create a 10 min time limit where Killer must get his 4 kills or the gates get powered and Survivors can escape. The whole of the match is just chases and Hide&seek. You eliminate the need for Slowdown Perks and you guarantee a minimum match time to play. After that create a good build, get good chases and try to get 12 hooks before the 10 minute mark or the 7 minute mark or the 5 minute mark, whatever the time limit may be. Survivors get to keep all their second chances, heals, boons, flashies. The maps won't need much rework since you're no longer fighting for control over it and you can find time to deal with loops. since they can't escape before a certain fixed time.
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@Tsulan said:
MMR rating is probably the same for everyone now. Since almost every match contained someone suiciding or giving up at 5 gens.
Gonna take a while until the mmr works properly again.
MMR never worked properly.
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I play the game for Ghostface and Sadako, Sadako is super fun to play. Her whole kit is alot better than most people give it credit.
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you guys are receiving log in bonusses!? sucks to be me i guess...
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Boring? Probably Pinhead, his chains are a massive tilt for me. Then there's Nurse, you can only swerve left or right so much...TRickster is annoying af to play against, anytime he has LoS you know you're in bad territory but you're also forced into open areas therefore you'll have be on his LoS, the more he can force that to happen the worst it is to play against.
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Lethal Pursuer is already Busted enough as is you don't wanna make Discordance give survivors auras and be another excuse to just slap Lethal into every build...
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SoloQ does not need a buff, SWFs will benefit from SoloQ improvements just like Nurse benefitted from the general killer buffs. You always end up buffing the strongest end of the spectrum...unless you touch the strongest aspect of the spectrum aswell.
You don't give BAD players more tools, you teach them how to play. Thana just got nerfed yet Survivors still want to waste time healing and do random ######### instead of doing gens which means the nerf to Thana is non existant because people just refuse to do gens... IT's amazing how manny people will t-bag at you to signal for a heal instead of getting on the gen and shave off seconds from it's completion...
The problem about survivor gameplay is BAD PLAYERS. People refuse to learn and to bring information perks, instead all they want is attention from the killer. They bring killer to teammates, they stay around whenever a Doctor has Static Blast ready and give their position away meaning Doctor won't get away from the hook, they step on Torment on purpose when PH wants to camp someone, they stay in Myers's line of sight and then go towards someone else and Myers pop a Tier 3 and insta downs or TB Piece Mori's them....
BAD players are killing each other more so than killers are opressive.
It's the same ######### for killers aswell, Killers are all using Pain Res, Deadlock, DMS, those Perks would be fine before the update since killers didn't get enough of an opportunity to apply pressure BUT DH IS GONE, Endurance Meta never happened, gens got increased time, survivors make it less far away when hit and killers break things faster and recover faster from successful hits. You have POWER now!
Yet so manny killers are still using Pain Res, DMS, Deadlock. WE got what we needed, we got a fairer game in it's most basic aspects, yet those perks are still very unreasonably strong.
Those Perks are as they are for three reasons, number one, the most important, to make people buy the killers that those perks belong to, it's a business and BHVR needs money, number two is to help BAD killer players and third they still exists because there's another layer of bad game design called Maps. Sometimes on some maps you will definetly need these Perks. The only issue is whenever you don't need them you're still using them...
Want to fix it? Improve Maps, remove RNG from Maps, this way everyone on both sides can study Maps and learn efficient routes, which at least in theory will help everyone become better at the game, prediction game improves, thus you're less realiable on busted Perks.
In practice? People will abuse their knowledge and double down on Slowdown just because...But then you can change the Perks and make them not busted.
And if a killer is overperforming because of their kit and not the skill of the people playing then adjust the killer kit...
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@WalterBlack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3123165#Comment_3123165
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/WDD9N6DO6B8B/afbeelding.png
Obvious bait is obvious. Have you ever played her?
It's not bait at all, she has the best base kit of all the stealth killers. Faster manifest/demanifest than wraith which means she doesnt slow herself down so much, Wraith with add-ons is still slower than her. She can TP so she's always faster than Wraith and therefore faster than every single stealth killer, the fact she can TP means she has better Hit&Run. The fact she can TP means she has better map control and pressure options. She's shorter and more silent aswell so her aproach is better, her Mindgames can't be deactivated by looking at her like you can look at GF to disable Nightshroud.
And she still has Condemned. Obviously she's not meant to get 4k Condemned kills all the time, same as Pig won't get 4 RBT kills or Pyramid Head won't get 4 Torment Mori kills all the time. All you can say about Condmned is that it could be easier to identify the states of each stack. Keeping track of Condmned can be Tricky but it's very doable with experience.
She honestly doesn't need that manny changes. What other killers can say they have Mindgames, TP, aproach and Slowdown built in + possible Mori!? Pig doesn't have TP and Survivors can Shift W away from the Dash so that makes Pig's Mindgames weaker, plus she's pretty slow crouching and uncrouching. Pyramid Head can't TP or has Slowdown but his anti-loop is much better and Torment kills are possibly easier to pull off. But Wraith ,Myers and GF and most killers can't come close to Sadako's level in terms of possible pressure and mobility.
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@TheArbiter said:
I mean literally any of ghostface's skins besides the classic are pay to lose
The Black and Red with Devil Mask is not Pay 2 Lose whatsoever.
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I was gonna say every Trickster Costume is Pay 2 Lose but isn't Trickster itself Pay 2 Lose!?
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Nurse needs the Axe even if she's the only answer to SWF's. SWF's will be SWFS no matter what. Dowsey, Otz, JRM and Ayrun have proven that... With brand new characters with minimal Perks they all reached Iri 1 and they've played against good killers and came back from situations they wouldn't have come back from if they weren't a SWF of good players. The key here is good players.
Nurse needs the axe so that BHVR can see why the other killers can't compete. And BHVR is already making steps towards making other killers compete. M1 killers got a pretty significant buff, the last 2 killers are M1 killers, Sadako and Dredge and they are far better than the previous M1 killer before them, Ghostface... We haven't had an M1 killer since 2019 and we haven't had a good M1 killer until the Update. Even Sadako, who is a much better killer than generally is thought about, was suffering alot but since the Update she's coming into place, minor tweaks here or there but she's fine. You won't 4k Condmned Mori every game, it's not why she exists, same thing as you won't 4k Torment with Pyramid Head and you won't 4k RBT as Pig either so saying Sadako is weak because of Condemned is pretty much BS when she's a better Hit & Run stealth killer than every other stealth killer, she can cover more ground faster, makes less noise, has better mindgames and still has built in slowdown, what other stealth killer can say they have movement, slowdown, mindgames and mori's in their basekit? Nobody.
Back to the point. BHVR is making strides towards making more killers able to compete. However buffing killers in general means Nurse also gets buffed because she's receiveing the same bonus as every other killer and she's benefitting from the survivor nerfs aswell. Nurse is unarguably stronger than she was before the Update. She needs to be corrected. And that correction has to happen for the sake of other killers aswell otherwise the power disparity between Nurse and all the other killers will still be present.
Not changing Nurse because of SWF's is a mistake. Just like buffing SoloQ is a mistake because just like Top killer benefits from buffing all killers so do SWFs benefit from buffing SoloQ cause each SWF member is still an individual survivor.
The better solution is to introduce restrictions to survivor output while they are a SWF. This way you can limit the output of Top killers aswell, thus you can Nerf Nurse and SWFs and ensure more killers can compete vs SWF's and that SoloQ doesn't suffer as much vs Top killer.
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@Rezblaze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3118670#Comment_3118670
Personal experience; I have won several games I had no right to win due to hook grabs.
It happens. And yes while a Bubba can face camp that's moreso a character design issue than a camping one.
So if it's a case of character design then you're saying it's not a hook grab problem. GF can go on a corner and stalk for the rescuer. Tier 3 Myers can just stay there and doesn't need to hok grab either, he'll 1 shot down. Same thing with a 99% Tier2 Myers, he'll tap power and Lunge at rescuer.
If you're a Nurse or Dredge or Sadako you can use Make your Choice and still get a 1 shot down on the rescuer.
All i'm saying is there's plenty of scenarios where Camping isn't happening because of the possibility of Hook Grabs which at least to me invalidates any reason to remove Hook Grabs. People will Camp because it's an effective strategy that requires low effort. Camping is a strong deterrent against saves and Hook grabs just happen to be a possible outcome should that double rewards camping.
To me a better solution would be to bring the DS stun back to 5 seconds, DS would spike in use again and help with tunneling. As for Camping you need to just slowdown the Hook timer for the Hooked Survivor or completly pause it if the killer is within 16 meters for example.
Right now killers have enough of a boost to warrant not camping and not tunneling. Why there's so much tunneling and Camping? Because it's been made easier because of a massive Oversight in BHVR's part.
I'm not one to camp or tunnel because it's so boring for me, if a guy has about 10 to 15 seconds on Hook timer? then sure why not camp him but fully camping a guy from first hook to death? Nah no thx i wanna PLAY THE GAME. If i see an unhooked Survivor doing something he shouldn't and i can get a second hook? Yeah sure i will it's a freebie being thrown at me but i won't tunnel at 5 gens unless i'm playing Pyramid Head and i have you Tormented on Second Hook, in that case i'm just playing the killer according to his power. If i let that guy go and i send someone else to a Cage i lose Torment on the guy i sent to cage because i used torment to send him to cage and i can lose Torment on the moriable guy if that guy rescues the survivor in Cage so yeah as Pyramid Head you're obviously going to want to use Torment Mori even if it means you have to tunnel that 1 survivor.
Same thing if you're playing Sadako and someone reaches 7 stacks of Condmned, they become your priority, in that scenario yeah you might even be tunneling someone.
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3117057#Comment_3117057
One could argue that killers aren't supposed to just sit at the hook and camp. If a survivor gets the rescue and gets away with Dead Hard, they earned that rescue. Killers who camp hooks have a tendency to want the grab instead of taking a trade.
Grabs are more powerful but less reliable. You'll only opt for a Grab if you failed to see the Rescuer aproaching or you are very confident in your ability to get the grab but even then you're at a 50/50.
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IMO Wraith needs to a shorter uncloakcing time and/or not slow down as much. The add-ons even when stacked offer 20% faster uncloacking at best... Sadako is so much better at Hit & Run strat if that's what Wraith is supposed to be strong at. Plus her Manifesting/Demanifesting offers built in Mindgame, Wraith has no Mindgame, he either gets there first and bodyblocks or he's not gonna hit.
People overreacted when he got changes and BHVR gunned for it immediatly like dummies.
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@MaxIsBased said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3118652#Comment_3118652
The game is balanced. Where did you get this unbalanced game thing from? Did you even boot up the game after the update?
The game has never been Balanced and never will be. A 4v1 ratio is simply too much. If we had a bare bones Mode you'd understand that killer needs Perks, unless you're Nurse, because Nurse ignores Map Design for the most part, something no other killer can do.
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I've barely gotten any grabs since Dedicated Servers so i don't think grabs are why Face Camping works.
Let's say you get your wish, does that mean mean Buba is no longer face camping? He has insta down he doesn't need to grab.
Billy can insta down aswell, Clown can spam bottles and slow you down enough to the point where no unhook is safe even if he isn't face camping, simple camping works very well for Clown. Especially when the update was a triple buff for killers in terms of chasing potential. Slap STBFL on Clow, slap extra bottles and who's gonna try and save ? you're gonna need a two man rescue and it still plays into clowns favor cause he can still slow you all down so much that he will be getting multiple hits, which only means he's getting more STBFL stacks... Unlimited Tier 3 Myers can camp for free, GF can camp if he gets a good hook placement to where he can easily Mark survivors...
Hook grabbing isn't the reason camping is strong. Camping is strong cause rescuing is very risky. It should be risky but right now it's just too risky. And gens take longer now aswell so it's a bit of double punishment for survivors.
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We do need other sort of interactions for Survivors. Doing just gens is indeed boring.
The ten second increase was a dumb change not by itself but because BHVR already buffed killers in the same patch and nerfed the distance survivors get when they are hit. So it's a triple buff in chases for killers : - faster swipe - faster kicking - survivors getting less distance; and THEN BHVR still touched the gens.
Its a bit too much. ESpecially Considering how Pain Res combines so well with DMS, considering Jolt has no cooldown anymore, considering Sadako has 2 good gen slowdown perks aswell. Pain Res is much better than Pop ever was, less effort required. Just put them in the "correct" hook...Yeah sometimes you won't make it to a Scourge hook but you're still getting high value of a simple JUST EQUIP IT Perk...
I understand kill rates were low and it demanded changes, it's obvious they were for majority of players, majority of players aren't Streamers who play the game for 8+ hours a day, BUT BHVR made the mistake of changing too manny things and we don't know how impactfull every single of them are on their own, we only know the results of when they are all combined.
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Personally i don't think you should remove De-Piping. It sucks to De-Pip when you're close to progressing especially if you get tunneled or Camped BUT Without De-Piping every game is a FREE PARTICIPATION AWARD!
That's a BIG NO! NO ONE should get awarded free stuff when it comes to progression. If you're only De-Piping from being prematurely retired from matches then that means you're doing fine when that doesn't happen. IF you find yourself in a frequent Tunneling or Camping situation then bring some Perk to avoid it, bring DS, OTR or Tracking Perks so you can avoid the killer and not enter chases.
You already can't tell your MMR, it's either really high really fast or really low really fast. Piping and Grades is the only sense of progression the game has. If you remove De-Piping then you break that Sense of Progression. Removing that means MMR is the only thing you can gauge how well you do but MMR fluctuates so much and so fast that it isn't reliable. IF you want to make MMR be accurate then you need to gain very little MMR per match so that you can have a sense of progression over time. Small increases of difficulty over time are a much better representation of progress and skill than high MMR gains from single matches. All high gains of MMR do is accentuate a fluctuation of MMR, you win, you lose, you win, you lose, this way Matchmkaing is constantly working based on fluctuating numbers, every match feels random AF and if you're not using SWF to control the flucatuation of MMR then that means Matchmaking is SUPER CHAOTIC with a random mix of high and low MMRs and you're probably facing a Mid level MMR killer.
We all know it means nothing, Iridescent 1 doesn't make you the best player but you need to keep the Illusion that it matters otherwise there'd be no reason to attempt to do well, especially when it's easier to just do bad to lower MMR and keep your Grade...
The Piping System serves the purpose of telling players what they were doing during the match and how much of it they did. IF you remove the negative aspect of the System, De-Piping, then you're telling to every single player that it doesn't matter if they do BAD because they can't lose progress...
IT's not fair that all of a sudden De-Piping stops existing, that would mean any new players will only get handed free progress where everyone else had to grind.
This is a situation that already got touched, Prestiging characters now instantly reward you with their Perks without needing to go through the Bloodweb. IT's good for Veteran players since those already put in all the work so when Wesker comes, for example, they only need to Prestige Wesker for his Perks and then everyone else gets those Perks too.
You can't just say screw De-Piping without thinking of the Progression system as a whole, that's a mistake. It's a mistake comparable to what what BHVR with overnerfing Survivors in this Update. Killers didn't need a triple chase buff: faster weapon swipe, faster kicks and nerf to survivors distance when hit. It's a triple buff for killers that wasn't well thought out, and they've still kept STBFL the exact same, so you're basicly at 10 stacks of STBFL instead of 8 because of the faster base kit swipe...
That's an oversight that needs course correction. Another oversight of this is, how killers work. Clown is Super Opressive right now, he can spam bottles to slow you down while he does everything faster. His reload is faster, he kicks faster, he makes good use of STBFL and his bottles slow down survivors alot, there's absolutly nothing you can do against a Clown right now.
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I'd refund Nemesis, Twins, PinHead, Artist if i had them, they're not for me, especially Nemesis, he has absolutly nothing besides a very MEATY Sounding M1 and Artist is so garbage her power fails more often than not and she's just not a good looking design at all. I'd refund Trickster but part of me still holds on to his swag and concept. I'd refund Plague if i could, mechanically speaking she has so manny timmings to handle that it's more of a hassle to play her, she doesn't really require much skill, that isn't the issue i just find her really wonky. The same way people find Deathslinger wonky i find Plague to be that.
Killers i'm very happy i bought: Demo on PS4/5, Ghostface on PS and PC, Pyramid Head on PC and surprisingly Sadako/Onryo on PC. She might need some help to make Condemned be a worthy mechanic but she's pretty fun to play and she can be so strong if survivors screw up slightly. She has quite a bit of management to understand and do but she can be pretty strong even without Condemned. So buffing Condmned needs to be something that is done in a small but meaningful way.
Ghostface is my main so even when he's bad i still play him. Pyramid Head is a complete Chad! Pulling off ranged hits feels so good, learning to "force" people into Torment takes some time but when you get how to make it happen more frequently he is so so strong. And his designs are pretty good. I still wish we'd get a very Clean and neat Pyramid Head with a Golden Pyramid, that'd be BALLER AF!
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@MrDardon said:
Wesker seems to be on a similar level of badass as Darth Vader, so I am looking forward to it.
The 2 lines "I'll kill you quickly" and "You will not live, to see the dawn" are 2 things Vader would totally say.
Wesker on level of Vader? You're insane! Darth Vader is the REASON Star Wars exists! Remove Vader and there's no prequel trilogy, there's no og's and there's no sequel trilogy, without Annakin there's no Star Wars. Without Wesker you had 3 excelent games, RE2, RE3 and RE4 and two good games in RE7 and RE8. The original RE is a great game but it's not because of Wesker. Re5 is okay despite Wesker. Sheva's AI was so bad, the story wen't basicly nowhere, Chris was Roided out and Punching Boulders, Jill survived somehow and went Blonde.
There's alot more memorable moments without Wesker's involvement than there is when he is involved...
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@Plsfix369 said:
I got bored reading all that for nothing, so your point was that Map Offerings busted keeping Nurse OP and letting SoloQ suffer.
I started disagreeing with you when you said Haddonfield was busted. For a Billy main, that's a good map to learn curves. The rest seems like you ranting about how bad you are at the game.
Why not just buff all killers (except Nurse and Blight) and SoloQ so we wouldn't have to feel desperate every time someone brings a Map Offering?
Also, Nurse, without OP addons, is borderline balanced on certain maps, but with the OP addons, she has no business being in the same game as a Trapper or Myers, who you know damn well doesn't have any power against decent survivors yet doesn't get any buffs.
You mean general killer buf or specific killer buffs? Cause Nurse benefits from any general killer buffs, like faster recovery, faster kicking etc.
Same applies to SWF benefitting from SoloQ buffs cause each member of the SWF still counts as a single survivor, so any buff each single survivor gets is also making the SWF stronger cause you're giving each individual more to work with.
IT'd be healthier for SoloQ if Blight was a bit nerfed and Nurse removed/reworked. More people would have to pick other killers to play. You'd see more of some other killers and if they become problematic then you can adjust them.
This applies to Bubba, Bubba is the Nº1 Public Camper because he can just insta down multiple people which makes rescues absolutly miserable to attempt so barely anyone tries. And BHVR made camping easier by adding more time on Gens... and tunneling is also easy when you're a Bubba.
Bubba is a great killer if you play him normally, he's plenty strong, can compensate his lack of mobility and map pressure with Perks and quick downs unfortunantly he's also the Ultimate Camper and it's far easier to just Camp when playing Bubba then it is to play the game as you "should". Clearly Bubba needs an adjustment or the game needs a way to prevent Bubba's Camping from being so strong.
Bubba doesn't Camp because of Maps Bubba camps because it's super easy for him.
If i was rich i'd bet MONEY that if we Killswitched Bubba and Nurse, the game would instantly get better for SoloQ and more killer players would have to learn how to play aswell. And if killers were somehow proving to be uneffective, which they honestly shouldn't right now, then you can change each killer individually to make them more in line with what they need.
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Nurse exists for a specific purpose cause there needs to be killers of that strength however her existence is a mistake to correct the original Sin and her continued existence is now a problem that also prevents other killers from being stronger. With fixed Maps we'd have manny killers close to her level which then would allow for her to be adressed as she'd be even more powerful if not adressed after Maps are fixed.
Like you said, if we fixed Maps, we wouldn't need Nurse as she is. BUT BHVR WON'T FIX MAPS. It's too late and too much work involved for it to happen. They need to redesign the map models, reavaluate tiles strength and limit the RNG. This is clearly way too much work for how much spread they are now with the other 3 games...
Plus we get new Chapters every 3 months. There's more new content being put out than there is changes to older content. I don't see BHVR actually fixing Maps anytime ever... It's gonna be incredibly difficult with such spread resources and with such a time frame to work on.
We already have multiple killers without a dedicated Map. Demogorgon, Ghostface, Bubba, Trickster, Pinhead. And everytime we get a new Map it's the exact same issues so clearly whoever is designing these Maps has a rule they follow and likely they won't stop following those rules now and it's even more unlikely that they'll break those rules and change existing Maps.
We've already changed way too manny Perks and a few core mechanics, alot of survivors are still "adapting", if we could get "new" maps now you'd be throwing every single survivor into a chaotic state of not having anything recognizable. Which ultimatly would leed to alot of frustration from survivor players.
I really do believe it's too late to change Maps.
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Bro, it's DbD... Wesker will be Stopped by Pallets, will stop chasing cause of strong windows.
He's a superpowered Character already, how will the Entity empower him more? It makes no sense for Wesker to need any more power.
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He won't feel as strong as the actual Wesker from RE, same thing as Nemesis. For that purpose alone it would be better to do an BOW like a Licker, they aren't super OP like Wesker or Nemesis so there's no pressure to make comparisons of power level and it makes for a new Monster killer instead of just another humanoid with powers.
Actually, If Entity is powering killers up how will she power up Wesker? What will the boost to Wesker be? It won't even make sense Lore wise...It's the worst part about LIcensed killers, their powers make no sense cause BHVR can't just create something that doesn't fit the pre-established character.
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@Wewantjason said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3103563#Comment_3103563
nurse is better because all killers are better. only bad nurse players got an indirect buff here. High tier nurse players were hitting most every hit every game anyway. Im not mad that the games most difficult killer got a little easier. I am not. Gens got 10 more seconds each. thats fifty seconds. do you know how many 20 second increments my teams waste on totems? How many waste time on chests? Frankly i do NOT care about the gens taking longer, because half the potatoes i play with never touch a generator anyway so thats a moot point. Not a single person has addressed that gen speed is irrelevant if you're team isn't doing gens. not to mention how many of my killer games i win because MULTIPLE survivors want to taunt me all match and leave 1 or 2 teammates to do all five gens. (see my 14 page post for the amount of survivors i had who just wanted to showboat and never touched a single gen when i was killer)
100% agree extreme hard tunnelers and hard campers are an issue more than before. no denying that.
i dont camp as bubba unless forced or people BM and are toxic. frankly he is an underated killer. he has an instadown AND shreds pallets. How many killer can say they have a permanent built in insta down, that hits multiple survivors (i love when i use no terror radius perks and find them healing. as you said its free real estae.) AND ignores pallets? only CRACKED survivors can use pallets against bubba. he is VERY fun to play without camping. thats why you should play him without camping. plus i get some fantastic messages in my inbox when i 4k without camping. people are just blown away at how he can be played when optimal. thats why i don't want him nerfed.
Oh boy. You are on the money here, i thought i was the only one saying this. I love this patch personally......but this was like 20 patches all at once. As happy as I am with these changes the devs seriously can't ever do this again. i bet dollars to doughnuts if this had been done incrementally no one would have even cared or noticed. imagine if every patch for the first twenty big real serious updates hit all at once. game never would have even lasted six years.
yes killers are the most oppressive they have ever been. the devs directly said that was the goal. Considering its a survival horror game i am happy with that. I'm happy to be oppressive in the LITERAL SERIAL KILLER/ MONSTER role, and im happy i have to play strategic, smart, stealthy to survivor in the SURVIVOR role. They literally call the roles survivor and killer, and i think people have loss sight of what those words MEAN after playing a video game for so long.
People complimenting you on not Camping as a Bubba is a symptom of the disease. Bubba will forever be "Damaged" because of extreme Camping reputation he got.
I don't want Bubba nerfed either, i just don't want the Extreme Camping problem to persist and if we disabled Bubba then at the very least you're showing people that Extreme Camping is a problem that isn't directly linked to Bubba wich is good on both fronts. It makes it clear Camping is running rampant because there were too manny changes at once that ended up benefitting Camping and it needs to be adressed and it shows that while being a very big offender of extreme camping Bubba isn't the only guilty party.
Bubba is great to play, he's plenty powerful and fun, the only problem is that he is very effective at camping and camping is easy so when both are combined it's a problem.
I'm happy with a killer sided patch but again too manny things at once. Too manny things not accounted for. It's like BHVR said: " screw it, complete power shift, problems? yeah we'll figure it out later..." which is a very BHVR thing to do.
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"i play Bubba and don't camp" So why are you here? I'm talking specifically about the Camping problem. Go read what Wewantjason posted...
The killswitch exists to killswitch problematic issues that impact gameplay, should they be a bug or not, using it only for Bugs is a dumb mistake. Just because Camping is a valid tactic it doesn't mean it's not a problem. And BHVR made it an even bigger problem when they decided to give killers more time to camp...It's an oversight on their part.
Unil they fix Extreme Camping that Bubba is capable off then Bubba deserves to get killswitched because his Camping is extremely detrimental to the game. Even from a killer sided perspective...
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@Wewantjason said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/338246/start-killswitching-killers
nurse is the same she has ever been. everyone needs to stop complaining about nurse.
.....the bubba thing is an issue. im a bubba main. i read the patch notes before the update and said this was going to happen. i did a gen block build (corrupt, deadlock, merciless, and no way out) pre patch. did maybe 20 games to test how it did, because i knew after the patch it was an insta win.
pre patch, 3-4 kills camping every game. it was horrible. boring easy wins. then after than i played bubba normally and my mmr was so high i got clowned on, which i knew would happen i just wanted to experiment with the build.
one good thing about camping bubbas, they always work their way into a place where they have to rage quit. it happened to me when i first started playing him. i still remember the first team that cucked me during an attempt to face camp and escaped, because it happened three games after and i realized i needed to actually learn how to play.
anyway that same build now? especially if you make sure first hook is near good three or four gen ? oh god. oh god you can almost not lose. i knew it would happen and i was so right.
but why nerf bubba? using a survivor as bait (camping) is 100% a part of the game. period. whether survivors like it or not. thats why altruism is a goal for that side of the game. and thats bubbas entire power is being able to multi hit. without that hes just michael without a stalk charge (which, can we please get a michael rework? he is literally bubba playing afk stalking half the game.)
there needs to be more endurance perks, and there needs to be a change to those perks. personally i think making it so the entity will not block more than one or two gens at a time is a good idea. before they nerfed corrupt id run that build and have 4-5 gens blocked at a time. but even now i can have two. and if i swap no way out for dead mans switch ive still had some games with 4-5 blocked.
and like ive said before to everyone who hates bubba. he has been in the game for how many years now? you have off the record, borrowed time, styptic agent, and frankly ive escaped camping bubbas. stop getting caught, make him tantrum, and as long as 1 gen pops before he stops camping so will the rest.
last note: i get its boring playing against camping bubba. but i also keep seeing "every killer is camping." ok. so why not kill switch the whole game then? ive seen ghostface camp. i had to camp as legion in one game (two hooks spawned literally next to each other. sorry not sorry im not giving that amazingly bad rng up and throw my good luck out the window). ive seen blights proxy camp because of their speed, hutnresses camping with cross map hatches, nurses and spirits blinking/phasing back to the hook while patrolling
literally every killer can camp. bubba is simply king.
tl/dr it is not AS bad as people are saying point blank. but yeah.....it really is an issue but the problem isn't bubba, its the perks bubbas are all running. even with the gen time increases (which killers frankly needed, gens are still flying in many of my games as long as survivors aren't totally incompetent), the gen blocking perks on him are what are buying him the time.
make it so no more than 1-2 gens can be blocked at a time and bubba will feel pretty much the same as he did before
and if bubbas camps people out with out the gen blocking perks, sorry not sorry those are bad players.
Nurse is by fas better now than she was before the update. Slower gens means you're given more time to miss blinks or hits, you get even more time if you have Thana for example, whcih comes with her, so it's free real estate. giving her more time to do anything is only going to make her stronger and easier to use.
I'm not discrediting camping as 100% valid option. I'm just saying the extreme cases of it need to be adressed.
Why would you play Bubba and not Camp? It's just so much easier than doing everything else. And this update made it even easier because this update gives killers more time to do their stuff. which was a good change, however BHVR did not account for the extreme cases where giving a killer more time is not a good decision.
I've posted this in another discussion and i'll mention it again.
We got to manny changes in a row, and we didn't test any of them individually, we tested all of them at once so we have no way to know if all of them were necessary or not.
We went from Old vs Old directly to New VS New. Maybe killers wouldn't need improved action speeds against New DH, maybe Gens wouldn't need to be 90 seconds when killers got so manny action speed changes.
Point is we never tested changes in isolation to see if they were correct or not, we lumped everything together and now we're in a chaos of changes, the only difference right now is killers are probably the most opressive they've ever been, or at the very least the most opressive they've been since i can remember.
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@ThiccBudhha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3103530#Comment_3103530
They can just revert gen speeds next update. No Biggie Smalls. That is not really a reason to kill switch Bubba. As if we even needed the extra time, lol. I am surprised survivors are pretending it makes a difference. Especially now with everyone giving up on hook.
Yes they can revert the gen time changes and they honestly should but until then you have the strongest camper in the game being made even stronger because of a very very poorly thought out change. How is that not unfair towards survivor players?
Will you seriously just let the problem persist? It's a problem yesterday, it's a problem today and it's a problem tomorrow UNTIL they make Camping not efficient.
Why do you think people give up on hook? They know Camping is made easier and the changes to Endurance make tunneling easier, hit the unhooked survivor, force them into Mend and GG...
How is this not impacting the normal gameplay?
If Clown deserved to be Shadow Realmed then so does Nurse and Bubba, the reason of one is a bug and the other isn't doesn't really matter. What matter is the impact they have on gameplay.
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@ThiccBudhha said:
I am more concerned about Clown and how long he will be shadow realmed than removing more killers from the game, actually.
That speaks to how efficient and quickly BHVR can fix Clown and not to the issue at hand. If something is a problem then you fix it. What you can't do is say "Clown is a problem let's banish him to the shadow realm" and they stay silent when the game changes you made just made the most unfun killer even more unfun. Bubba got a huge Buff by making gens slower, he gets 10 more seconds per gen to camp, he has in total 50 more seconds to camp without worrying. How can this be a change that was meant to happen!?
This impacts gameplay just as much as Clown getting perma speed boost. Are you just gonna let Bubba camp for free and make everything miserable for 4 players?
How is that a possible line of thought?
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So you have a tool to eliminate problems but you're only going to use because of bugs instead of incompetent game design? But isn't a bug incompetent game design? So why can you killswitch things when bugs happen but when it's other sorts of incompetent game design it's fine.
I'm a killer main, 98% of my playtime is on killer, but somethings are just absolutly riddiculous. Nurse has always been riddiculous, justified to a degree but still, the update just made her stronger. Bubba was already a camping Monster but now with slower gens and oversighted double buffs to some stuff you're making camping Bubba's even stronger. If those don't call for quick corrections because of unbalanced gameplay then Clown shouldn't be disabled either. YOU CAN'T HAVE DOUBLE STANDARDS. You simply disable what is wrong and work on a fix.
The end result is the same, you're impacting normal gameplay because of changes that weren't meant.
And if they are meant then they're very poorly thought out and even more poorly tested changes and require IMMEDIATE attention. I don't give a damn about a winning i side, i want the game to be better simply. Making an issue an even bigger issue isn't making the game better.
The update made every killer better. Every good aspect of the killer is better BUT EVERY BAD ASPECT is now ALSO WORSE!
It's not my fault BHVR makes Base game changes without changing killers to compensate for those changes.
Endurance effect was such an oversight that they corrected it immediatly. So if Endurance, which we don't really know how it would impact gameplay on live version, could be corrected by making Mending deactivating Endurance then we can surely just as quickly fix Nurse and Bubba for example.
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I partially agree.
The only way for me to understand the DS change is because of OTR, they didn't want survivors to use OTR and DS together as that would make for a very very strong anti-tunnel but also would give Survivors a free 3rd and 4th healstate they could abuse and put a Styptic or MoM on top. DS was already changed to cancel because of Conspicuous actions so it wasn't the ah you can't touch me weapon that it used to be and that was fine. Still very popular but not longer abusable by survivors so i don't get why extra nerfs.
In the end OTR now deactivates with Conspicuous actions aswell and can't be used if you have to Mend so the extra nerfs to DS just seem poorly thought out. Maybe they were done just to keep the "Meta Change" label.
A DH change was absolutly needed but was the change they did the right one? DH was opressive in every scenario. E for Distance was the worst feeling for a killer. Knowing you've outplayed, out spaced a Survivor but the Miracle of E denying a killer of all the work is something absolutly demoralizing and worse is that you have to expect dissapointment everytime you wanted swing at an injured survivor.
Hacks for Auto DH were running rampant aswell which just inflated the whole scenario to an even higher height.
As good as no more E for Distance feels it heavily limits the useability DH now has.
I'd simply remove the invulnerability aspect of DH, so that if you hit someone at any point they go down, this avoids the moments where you hit them but DH saved them from the hit and gave them distance.
By removing the Invulnerability, aka the 3rd health state, you could still get a down even if a survivor used DH. If they screwed the spacing, they'd get hit and go down but good use of DH would still reward you with a longer chase.
This way you don't double punish killer, if they hit you go down but if they don't hit then survivors gets the distance they deserved, would it still suck for killers? Yes but only if they couldn't hit but it would be more punisheable to survivors who use DH as the 3th health state. Which in my eyes was the majority of Survivors because the majority of survivors don't use DH with a plan, they just panick and DH, which led to killers not hitting or hitting but not counting cause it had invulnerability.
Instead BHVR went for full 3rd health state and screw Distance.
We never tested "Old" DH vs killer buffs. We never tested No Invulnerability DH vs No killer Buff and we didn't test No Invulnerability DH vs Killer Buffs.
Who knows, maybe DH not giving a 3rd health state would still make the perk valuable for good survivor players who plan to use DH in a specific scenario and it wouldn't hurt killers who get No Hits when survivors just Panicked E when they screwed up.
Regarding Camping and Tunneling, it's just the way to play if you simply only care about wins. Pulling off 12 hook games is not easy or consistant. It's why TrU3Ta1ent of all people stopped striving for that.
You can't even pull off 12 hooks at low MMR because survivors give up easily, they'll DC or suicide early so imagine in higher MMR where people played in such a mechanical way that it would be impossible for most killers and most killer players to generate enough pressure to have time to get 12 hooks. Even if you get BP for the people that DC you're still missing BP for Hits and Chase length, you're still leaving pallets up to be used by someone else, you're hurting your Emblems and Progression.
The problem with killer buffs is that if you make killers feel nice to play as then you're also making them harder to play against, especially when they decide to get kills no matter how.
This is how Nurse is so problematic, she needs to be killswitched until she's revised. Buffing killers = buffs Nurse AND Nerfing survivors = Buffs killer = Buff Nurse. Nurse essentially got a double Buff.
I'm not a Nurse player, her constant gasping sounds annoy the hell out of me, but if i was one i'd be in DbD Heaven right now, i'd play every second i could cause right now she's possibly the strongest she has ever been or as close to the strongest she has been previously.
Regardless of what you do to killers, Camping and Tunneling will always exist and will always be the best option for Winning matches.
I strive to not tunnel or camp because i want to chase people, i want to create the scenario where i'm strong to chase anyone and everyone, i want to win and i want it to be my way, it's a me thing i get it and the game is not made for me and as such it's not always possible for me to win and to win in the way i wanna win but for me tunneling and camping is either a choice made by lack of valuable information, idk where the other survivors are and what they are doing cause i didn't bring info perks or i missed the info, or cause i desperatly need someone out of the game so i can have a chance at winning so i'll go for whoever i know is on death hook. Tunneling is NOT my default mode.
And the reason Tunneling and Camping becomes a Default mode for so manny players is because they don't want to deal with the struggle that is trying to play the game without tunneling or Camping. BHVR made an effort to make the game more enjoyable to play for killers and succeeded at it but the side effect of that is that there's more people playing killer who aren't that good at killer so they still need to Camp and Tunnel cause that's the easiest way to play. And most of those people were victims of Camping and Tunneling so they know the startegy works, so they will definetly employ it whenever possible. So in the end those who suffered from it will employ it cause they will realise they can't win without it.
Humans will always look for the easy method and the easiest thing for a killer is to tunnel and camp. Chasing is hard cause you need to understand Maps, tiles, chase Perks, etc. IT's the same thought process for Survivors who just pre-throw pallets and shift W to the next. They don't loop, they don't do interactive chases, they just want to get away and be as hard to hit as possible, so they put down the pallet, run to the next and so on. Killers either break the pallets which still wastes time or they go around which still wastes time.
Like i said, people will always do the easiest thing. Shift W and Camping/Tunneling.
Want another example? People hate skillchecks. It's why Old Ruin was so valuable and used, Most survivors would fail skillchecks thus their progess was getting reversed but in addition they were affecting the other survivors aswell, slowding them down because they screwed up. What did BHVR do? Remove the skillcheck part of Ruin and allowed any scrubb to do gens freely which was good for good survivors but was even better for bad survivors, now they don't have to worry about good skillchecks or missing skillchecks, the penalty is much much lower.
I will even concede to the counter argument of Console framerates being bad and affecting skillchecks which made Old Ruin very strong. I'll concede to Consoles getting shaffted, i am originally a PS4 player so i know that experience. BUT when there wasn't lag or framerate issues, mainly before Dedicated Servers, skillchecks weren't such an issue thus Old Ruin wasn't such a big deal to good players. PLUS Ruin is a Hex Totem, survivors spawn on them so much that it was almost miraculous that Ruin ever got so much value that it needed such a heavy rework.
It was reworked with the lowest skill level in mind, like so manny other changes...
To close off my argument, i think the Update did manny things right but as usual BHVR's lack of foresight and proper Testing made for some side effects that could easily be fixed before launch and should be fixed by the next update.
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From my experience since the Update it's Survivors that are just afraid of doing gens, they rather do dumb ######### and try to get YT montage clips than actually playing. I just had people doing rescues in the face of a NURSE WITH STARSTRUCK....
Î had a match against Dying Light Legion and it went fine, we did do gens and 3 got out. So it's simply a matter of Survivors playing decently at the very least.
10 seconds per gen is nothing when all the Overused Regression/Slowdown Perks got nerfed. Ruin is even more of a joke, i honestly don't understand why it's still a Perk in the game and how some people still freaking use it, Pop got changed, Pain Res got changed, Overcharge got changed, Corrupt now deactivates on early downs so there's even the case where taking an early down might be detrimental for the killer.
Jolt got the cooldown removed but if you're getting that much value out of Jolt then survivors are definetly doing something very wrong.
Prove Thyself is rather simple to get, just play Dwight, there's an added bonus of Dwight also having Bond so you know where teammates are, that way you can go to their gen and use provethyself to boost the gen speed.
People are failling at doing gens because they want to.
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@TheWheelOfCheese said:
Unfortunately most people will take the path of least resistance and play whatever role is easier to win with, instead of the role they think is the most fun mechanically.
Survivor was and never will be fun mechanically speaking.
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@Maxx_Calin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/336914/dear-survivors-stop-throwing-matches
Ok first off DH never made an survivor a god. Killers could still catch survivors who used it. It just made it a tiny bit harder for them to do so.
Also when a Survivor is being either camped by the killer or none of the other survivors are even bothering to save them. There is no reason for a survivor not to kill themselves on hook yo get out of the match to move onto another one.
What really bugs me is Survivors who refuse to even attempt to save me until I force myself into the 2nd hook phase by trying to get off it and than they finally come to save me. I shouldn't have to do that to get saved by a survivor or for a survivor to quit being lazy and actually try and save me on 1st hook. When a survivor gets hooked, one person should save them while the others work on Gens or avoid the killer. If it's down to only 2 besides u. One does a Gen the other saves u.
The issue with survivors quiting at the end of the day is cause most survivors don't want to work as a team with their team and only do what benefits them in the end.
First off DH meant any noob could get away really easily. Everyone and their mum used DH because of how strong and easy it was.
People don't do rescues in SoloQ, that is true but it has nothing to do with Camping, it has to do with SOLOQ mentality. Survivors do 2 things: They are SELFISH and only care about themselves and when things don't go their way they are SELFISH and kill themselves and throw matches.
Low MMR Survivor is Hell not because Killers are OP or overbuffed but because people don't play well at all... Y
10 more seconds to do a gen isn't an "OMG we can't win" scenario, Prove Thyself and Toolboxes still exist...
Most survivors, which are CASUALS, are just freaking throwing matches instead of playing.
I get it if people just wanna have fun but one things is having fun the other is just throwing the match for everyone else.
Even as killer i hate survivors who throw matches. It makes my win feel like a cheat, i'll never know what kind of plays and decisions i'd have to make if they'd played the match with the intent to win.
There's no middle ground in DbD, it's either Low MMR Hell or High MMR Efficiency...
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@Oscarnator said:
So what you want the survivors to rush the killer? But then you get labeled as a bully squad? Lose lose situation man
Rushing the killer doesn't mean you're a bully squad. Rushing the killer was all survivors did to me in the Last PTB and i loved it. The Endurance Meta would actually make the game fun. People would spend more time engaging with the killer instead of securing whatever measely points they can and just dip out or troll the killer at exit gates.
IF finely tuned the Endurance Meta would be the best time for killers in DbD history. All we needed really was the Styptic nerf. DH was made avoidable, so without DH you won't have an endurance procc to help secure protection hits for MoM. Occasional slugging counters OTR and MoM cause slugs don't count for protection hits.
SO if you ask me, people are just dumb and focused on the wrong things. OTR for 80 seconds was too much, reducing it to 30 seconds would be enough of a time waste if killer decided to tunnel and wait out the endurance effect, but you can avoid OTR all together, with every killer, you don't need Pyramid Heads Cages to avoid OTR for example.
Plus because of the ratio of 4 to 1 it's much more likely to face "bad" survivors and as such the chances they'd pull off 5,6,7, 9067346583748 hits to down are drastically low.
I'd much rather have all my matches be like they were in the PTB than what they are in live build...
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@hastarkis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3065915#Comment_3065915
So let me get this straight. Killers slug ang go hard tunnel because they want the 6k from the game!? Wich turns into 12k with a Cake or BBQ. What if told you you can get the same 6k, or whatever multiplicative, IF YOU JUST PLAY THE GAME!
"OH we never know if the survs are gonna pop up 5 gens in two minures". If you don't openly show you're just gonna slug the whole team or tunnel and camp then maybe the survs won't genrush you!?
Like what the hell you expect a survs to do when they see you are facecamping for example? You think they will just let you kill them on 5 gens for EZ game!?
So you can tunnel and camp because survs might be an ######### but survs can't counter your tunnel/slugging/camping by gen rush!?
Such thinking much entitlement!
" First we secure a kill to make the game 3v1 then we farm BP" Oh so other survs only exist for you after you've made sure you can win easily!? After 1 kill at 4 gens is done it's easy to just gang up on survs...
Mob mentality...i got you.
You'll get more points doing a bit of everything else than you will just slugging or tunnel one surv for the whole game. Getting 15k points just to WIN is dumb.
You're tading both Points and FUN just to complete the objective. And you trade DOUBLE the points whenever there's extra BP...
You guys rather get more 15k matches than you want fun, than you want points. You clearly don't enjoy the game, you just want in and out without doing anything worth it...
This is why i'll never find survs a tractive to play, especially as a SOLOQ player. Killers will tunnel you out on 5 gen just for them to get their measely 7k points. Then they'll complain for you to genrushing and forcing them to tunnel and camp.
They're the kind of people to kick every pallet right away with no mindgames and shift W to the next one everytime so that nobody else can get a decent chase. they're the kind of people to slugg all team or tunnel you out because the survs MIGHT be doing A, B or C...
I mean... I can see a pattern here, don't you? I can name a lot of games both for survs and killers where I wasn't focused enough to get some points first and - boom - I don't have a chance for that. I was chased for 3 gens and died. Got a little more than 9k or 10k because I got nothing except full chase emblem and some bonuses from others' gens. Maybe I'm not really good at hockey but sometimes I just scream "let me do a gen, gosh, let me breath, let me HEAL AT LEAST BRUH STOP".
And sometimes I just scream "let me chase you, stop doing gens, gosh, I'm not SO good, there's no need in that rush, I only want my BBQ and then you're free to go and t-bag!!". But afterwards I go play survs, and face same kind of killer, and show empathy, and decide to pay attention to bones and chests instead of gens and... well... then we manage to get only 2 gens and die with same 15k as you've mentioned (or less) and killer get their 25-28k because apparently sometimes altruism against facecamper gives more benefits for killers (as free hits and downs and separate hooks) instead of survs.
I don't genrush (but maybe you'd call it that way) but I never ever let myself mess around doing nothing (archives don't count, guilty) if I'm not sure someone else is doing objectives. Otherwise I can die with less than 7k and you can't blame me for trying to get AT LEAST 15k :D
It's a guess-game and everyone wants to secure their fun first.
What's your point in copy pasting me? Camping and tunneling only happens if survivors let it happen.
I can count more times people with BT throw themselves at me than the times i went for the same survivor twice in a row...And i guarantee you the times Survivors do that by far is higher than the number of killers that actively tunnel. It's a 4 to 1 ratio when BT and Ds has been Meta for years and people throw themselves at killers cause they know they can't die, so don't come here and spin things when the math doesn't help you.
You have the numbers advantage, you can prevent tunneling and camping. The worst thing that can happen is you coming into a Basement Trapper Hag or Bubba, how manny times do you face Trappers and Hags!? Barely anyone plays them, the most you can complain about is Bubba's and even then you always have the option to avoid looping the basement to prevent a strong camping option.
Even if you face a Bubba you can do rescues, Trade. Trades favor survivors, you can see how manny hook states your teammates have so trading allows the killer to remain in the same spot camping while the others are free to still do gens.
If you fail to trade and get slugged then crawl away, if they pick you up and bring you closer then a teammate should use that opportunity to rescue the hooked guy.
Don't act like killers control how a match goes, cause they don't, never did, never will. A killer's objective isn't babysitting gens to avoid their completion, a killers objective is to sacrifice survivors, each survivor has 3 lives + whatever second chances they use for each life, that's alot of second chances. If someone dies on first hook is either them giving up or the team not rescuing...You can get away from camping and tunneling, if you aren't getting away from it then your team mates are simply not helping you.
It's not a guess game, Perks exists for a reason. Experience exists for a reason.
Securing your fun first is the mistake. FUN is the match as a whole, not individual parts. Doing gens might be boring AF but you can engage in chases, rescues, healing, etc. So if all you did was gens then that's on you. Go try and take a hit for someone, go rescue someone, go heal someone.
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@CluelessWanderer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3065276#Comment_3065276
^this.
I only play on weekends, and I play Solo Q. My last 3 matches were absolute unabashed facecampers. Just had a Demo on Raccoon City stand there face to face with the hooked survivor (at 4 gens). It's absurd.
So yes. We load into a match and get gens done as fast as possible because we all know camping is nearly inevitable.
So you're playing on accasions, you're most likely low MMR and you're complaining about lack of skill from killers... Maybe find time to play a bit more and escape the low MMR hell.
So you're gen rushing based on the assumption you're gonna get camped but then you do get camped because you're gne rushing...I guess it's easy to figure out why you're getting camped.
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So let me get this straight. Survivors gen rush because they want the 5k from escape!? Wich turns into 10k with a Cake or BPS. What if told you you can get the same 5k, or whatever multiplicative, IF YOU JUST PLAY THE GAME!
"OH we never know if the killer is gonna slug at 5 gens". If you don't openly show you're just gonna gen rush then maybe the killer won't slug you at 5 gens!?
Like what the hell you expect a killer to do when he sees 2 toolboxes for example? You think he will just let you gen rush for EZ escape!?
So you can gen rush because killer might be an ######### but killer can't counter your gen rush!?
Such thinking much entitlement!
" First we secure escape then we farm BP" Oh so the killer only exists for you after you've made sure you can win easily!? After all gens are done it's easy to just gang up on any killer...
Mob mentality...i got you.
You'll get more points doing a bit of everything else than you will just gen rushing and escaping. Getting 15k points just to SURVIVE is dumb.
You're tading both Points and FUN just to complete the objective. And you trade DOUBLE the points whenever there's extra BP...
You guys rather get more 15k matches than you want fun, than you want points. You clearly don't enjoy the game, you just want in and out without doing anything worth it...
This is why i'll never find survivor a
tractive to play, especially as a SOLOQ player. People will let you die just for them to get their measely 5k points. Then they'll complain for you dying and not helping them gen rush harder.
They're the kind of people to drop every pallet and shift W to the next one everytime so that nobody else can get a decent chase. they're the kind of people to not rescue someone because the killer MIGHT be doing A, B or C...
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Nurse and Claudette.
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A problem not talked about openly or as much as it deserves? How the game is built for a Casual Audience and how that affects Fun.
The Fun that a Casual Audience wants and the Fun people who play the game daily want is a very different thing.
Casual Audience Fun = SWF. Active player Fun = Good matches.
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Wether i play survivor or killer i play for my objectives. If my objective is escaping then i do what i can to progress that objective, it might be do gens, it might be taking a chase so teammates do something, it might be rescues. As killer it's exactly the same, i do whatever progresses my objective. Tactical options come more into play as killer since you are the 1 vs the 4 so you need to think of a way to disrupt survivors as much as possible.
Camping and tunneling is UNFUN FOR KILLERS ASWELL. I don't wanna sit my ass watch some guy die or force myself to chase the same guy everytime just cause he's the one closer to death. Doing either of those is UNFUN FOR KILLER. Will some people take the easy way? Yeah they will for whatever reason but if every killer does it then you're looking at very very bad game design.
Fortunantly BHVR seems to be listening and buffing killer in ways that makes them not waste as much time or lose as much ground when interacting with the multiple interactions.
Another way to make interactions more frequent and not so much tame consuming would be to adress Map sizes and loop density. I understand that Maps and loops are survivors primary means of defense but Map in general are just so badly designed that even after 6 years damn INFINITE LOOPS STILL EXIST!
Breakable WALLS need to get the hell out of the game cause they cause more infinite loops than they solve and they waste more of killers time than they benefit killers after breaking them.
The best way to promote healthier killer playstyle is to make the necessary changes that allow killers to not think camping and tunneling are the only way to win.
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@ElleGreen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3055620#Comment_3055620
This Is a really good Idea maybe the devs will see It
I do agree it's a good idea but it might be very hard to implement and it won't be a casual friendly killer for either side. It might be good for SWFs to face, it brings something new for them, while they can prepare each of the SWFs member for 1 specific role they might eventually get countered by the random debuffs. Then there's the whole matter of how strong the debuffs can be vs how much stacking survivors cand do in an SWF scenario. Which can mean either the killer is opressive vs SoloQ or the debuffs are too weak and SWFs have no issue whatsoever.
It's very tricky to make the power viable but not opressive or weak. It might be opressive if you make a build with Thanatophobia and Sloppy Butcher vs SoloQ but Thana and Sloppy might be what gives you a chance vs a SWF...This is a very tricky scenario.
IT's why i limit the base TR. If we limit the base TR then we can increase the debuff effects since they're in a smaller area, it doesn't punish everyone at once but those that are punished, are actually punished to a fair degree so that killer can have pressure insde his TR. And if you're in that smaller area the proximity between players is greater meaning there's a higher chance for a chase to happen which means there's a possibility of the 1v1 being more favourable to killer because the random debuff might be a chase debuff and that's just bad luck on survivor side, which obviously people will complain about because it happens to be RNG but at the same time the debuff might not impact chase so killer might not get much value either.
So while RNG sucks ass, it doesn't directly affect everyone the same way. You're not stuck in a slower gen all match, you're not stuck in an exhausted all match scenario.
Get away from the killer, let the timer expire and you're free of the debuff. And for the killer, he has to apply pressure.
Have information perks to know where to apply pressure, have lethality to make use of that pressure.
The biggest issue the killer might have is Mobility, stuff like PWYF won't work everymatch, so applying debuffs might not be really easy but a good first chase coupled with necessary info will allow you to know where to build pressure. Giving a killer like this a Tleport would be too strong and the TP would have to come with some heavy penalties. Increased TP cooldown, limited spots to TP , RNG placement of TP spots...With good RNG killer could use Lethal Pursuer and TP and apply debuffs to multiple people without much skill or thought required, he simply was lucky and had free info on where survivors were.
So a standard 115% or 4.6m/s killer might be enough even if it gets harder on the larger Maps BUT don't forget survivors need to work as a team always so the chance to debuff multiple people will present itself and if they don't help eachother then someones being left for dead which helps the killer aswell.