lemonsway
lemonsway
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Players really are against skillcheks huh!? First get rid of Ruin for punishing people who HATE skillchecks, now people want DS to be autoamtic cause skillchecks bruh... Yeah just make everything automatic. next you want no Skillchecks vs Jigsaw boxes or Madness, then no skillchecks when healing or when using BNPs so that all you do is hold M1 and nothing else...
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@ElleGreen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3055548#Comment_3055548
If you could create one what would It be?
Aesthetics wise idk, any sort of monstrosity kinda works, even Dredge's design would work i suppose. Power wise, something that punishes survivors for being close to the killer. As in standing in it's Terror Radius limits Survivors ability to do everything, slower repairing, cleansing, blessing, sabotaging, healing, faster item comsuption, no aura reading, exhaustion, obliviousness, etc. The thought process behind it is exactly what i said before, mere mortals innability to accept and comprehend a Cosmic being. It's mere presence and gazing upon it twists mere mortals ability to comprehend reality.
A 24 meter base TR sounds about right, not to big to not be too opressive but not too short either so it isn't unusable. This creates a scenario of Map pressure without the need for crazy mobility and it forces survivors to commit. Either they do the further gens and risk a 3 gen or push through the TR debuffs so they can create pockets in the Map and reduce the effectiveness of the killers power.
This ensures the killer doesn't require much gen defense Perks and can focus on Information or chase perks. Would people do Forever builds? Yeah they would obviously, wich is problematic so a possible solution is that each survivor gets afflicted with a random debuff, 1 gets slower repair, the other slower healing, the other increased item comsuption rate, the other slower sabotage, etc. This way while you can use Sloppy Butcher to punish 1 guy alot, it's still not punishing everyone extra hard and you might not even be punishing anyone extra hard cause that debuff might not even be applied to anyone.
Another way to work around and prevent extra punishement for just that 1 survivor whole match would be for the debuff to have a timer and switch at random to another debuff when the timer expires.
It could go first 60 seconds with slower healing, then the next 60 seconds of increased sabotage time, then the next 60 seconds of increased item consuption, then the next with no aura reading, then the next exhausted, etc. Make the effect switch at random after a set period of time.
This way as long as someone is inside the TR then they are affected by a new debuff which is good for killer.
This creates a risk reward for both sides, something the game really needs in my opinion, survivors inside TR get debuffed while survivors outside TR don't get debuffed. Killer gets to debuff everyone inside it's TR but is also forced to seek new territory to ensure they can debuff all survivors and keep the debuffs cycling. This creates a dynamic of engagements which is the purpose of the game.
This power gives the killer two options, attempt stealth by shortning it's TR to catch survivors off guard with a debuff to make single targets more vulnerable or augmentthe TR to increase map pressure. Survivors can counter it by spreading out but risk being more vulnerable as individual targets or risk being closer to the killer and push through the debuffs while being in better position to help each other.
So killer get's stronger 1v1 or macro pressure. But also puts the killer in a position where they must engage with everyone as much as possible. You don't make use of your power if you're camping a hooked guy... he's on the hook he can't do anything so you're not debuffing anyone unless they come to you and even then the debuff they might get might not affect their chase potential so killer might not benefit from the 1v1. This will benefit you against Ultra altruistic players for sure but quickly becomes a useless strategy if you just let people do gens.
Again this makes things a risk vs reward game, where risking a 1v1 rescue might not be good for either side.
Perks that would combine well with the killer? Lethal Pursuer to know at the start what's the best pressure option to spread debuffs. Corrupt Intervention to force players to either hide and be useless or come closer and risk debuffs. Starstruck, buffs your TR to give you lethality. Chase perks are a bit of a mix cause they either work in shorter chases or scares people into shift + w which might not be ideal. Dark Devotion can be useful, hitting the Obsession transfer TR so if the obsession comes in contact with other survivors they are debuffing themselves while killer is free to aproach someone with no TR, you can mix this with PWYF to hit the obession activate Dark Devotion, leave the Obsession, gain a PWYF token and surprise someone else with stealth and speed to increase your lethality.
So we're looking at a Build like Corrupt Intervention/Lethal Pursuer - StarStruck - Dark Devotion - PWYF. Not Meta Heavy but plays to the killers strength's and weaknesses. Gives information/allows to pressure the Map better - Gives speed - Gives Mobility in form of stealth and gives Lethality.
Startstruck plays well into the risk reward. Being exposed on top of whatever debuff you already had is a good deterrent against any rescue attempt.
It's a good Mix of everything a killer needs without being an anti-loop killer.
In a perfect scenario i guess you'd hit the Obsession, they'd run into someone else and spread the debuffs, then you can use your stealth and speed to hit someone else, get the down and pick them up, if StarStruck goes on then you you know your timing was right and someone is there and you insta know you've debuffed and exposed someone. IF Starstruck doesn't procc then you were either still under the effect of DArk Devotion or nobody else was there, which means they either are isolated or there's a chance they've made contact with the Obsession and are debuffed aswell.
That's just pretty good pressure if you ask me.
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Something Lovecraftian would be awesome but that's beyond BHVR's understanding. They barely make a barely working M1 killer let alone them making a Cosmic deity beyond the simple comprehension of mortals.
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First of all welcome to the Club! *Aplauses*
Second of all HAHA!!! You're a Opps i lost my power cause they looked at me killer! *Shame!*
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@Little_Kitten said:
Or don't change the nurse, just increase the potential of the other killers 😉
But then other killers become the same bullies that Nurse is, which still solves nothing.
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Nurse will only be changed when enough people are tired of the state she's in and what she represents for the game. The most fascinating thing is now more killers are in favor of this aswell.
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Yearly Annyversary event brings people back cause that's the highest expectation period for DbD then it takes a tumble again once people realise it's just another copy paste event and nothing changed during a whole year.
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Decent Map still not as FUN as OLD Lery's. I'd give half of the Maps away just to get Old Lery's back and the other half to get a Trickster dedicated Map.
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@TeleportingTurkey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3043095#Comment_3043095
why would I want to engage in different chases if I can just pull off ol` reliable proxy camp & tunnel right off hook every time? I eat DS once (if they even have it) and get a free kill in a minute.
Sure, chases got easier and tunneling got even easier, just as not tunneling lost any incentive because no BBQ bonus or anything else like it.
You're mistaking Tunneling being an effective tactic vs how easy it is. In a way you're right tunnelling is easy to do, you're only focused on 1 guy however there's plenty to counter it , BT, DH, DS, Bodyblocking, OTR (soon).
Tunneling has worked since always because it's one of the options. How effective it is is debatable. If you enjoy tunneling or think tunneling is the only thing you can or should do then that's you but i sincerely disagreee both in it's effectiveness and in it's ease of use.
Why do you think DS is strong in endgame? It guarantees the Survivor a huge distance lead. You can't tunnel them. For you to tunnel them they either have to Miss the skillcheck or they have to be completly clueless on where to go and even then the distance they can make is so big that wasting that lead and not knowing where to go is a double gigantic mistake from the survivor. Even with NOED you can still lose a survivor because of DS.
DS deactivating in endgame is great for killers and general health of the game because of the base kit BT changes and the changes made to OTR. You're still guaranteed an Endurance effect so you still have the same chance as you had with DS. Now if DS remained the same and killer somehow downed the survivor with another hit, then they'd still have DS, it would take another hit to take them down, can you long this would take? DS needs to deactivate during endgame.
What the hell does BBQ have to do with Tunneling or camping? If you're camping or tunneling then you're only looking for 1 guy, how is 25% more BP worth it over chasing and hooking all 4?
You're getting more BP from securing the 4 stacks then camping 1 guy and you're also making better match progress since Hooking all 4 survivors once is one the Emblem requirements. Therefore having BBQ does not promote camping or tunneling...Same as not having the stacks does not promote camping and tunneling. Camping with 1 BBQ stack is the exact same as not having stacks. The difference is minimal. If that's your reasoning then use a Pudding, it's guaranteed 100% more points instead of that 25% from 1 stack.
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Is this bait? It feels like bait. Killers are better in chases. No only E for Distance is dead, which means you have a chance at getting them, but they also went ahead and reduced killers recovery from some actions. Plus the stackability of some killer perks remains ( at least until further notice) the same and they nerfed the distance survivors get from being hit. All together makes for more engagement in chases which favours killers. There's more incentives to chasing than camping and slugging.
The 10 extra seconds for each gen amount to 50 seconds in general, something that Prove THyself, 2 survivors or a toolbox compensate for and will still be troublesome if you're stacking these conditions. Thus those 10 seconds are relatively short when it comes to improving camping.
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IT's not hear ######### like most of them. GF got done dirty. I never understood why his Menu music isn't the normal TR. At least the washing machine isn't always turned on.
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You can still use Starstruck on Freddy BUT ONLY on survivors that are AWAKE?
If they get Oblivious when in the Dream World then it makes sense for the Perk to not work because it works based on TR. While you as Freddy don't lose TR, the TR effect is disabled for the Survivors in the Nightmare thus the Perk can't work on them.
The Perk works based on Survivors ability to hear or not hear TR and not the Killers. If Jolt/Surge works on Freddy regardless of the survivors state of awakened or asleep then it's proof you have TR and that at the same time TR is disabled for survivors asleep. Both things can happen.
This is a scenario comparable to the usefulness of Insiduous to a Wraith. Wraith can go invisible and lose TR, and he is perfectly invisible when standing still so why would a Wraith ever use Insiduous!? If you want to camp someone you're probably better off finding a place you can stand still at and use the Coxcomb Clapper add-on to have no sound on your bell and surprise anyone aproaching.
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From the short clip i'm assuming you can still time a full charge killer swing so not much has changed in terms of DH being used to dodge a hit, which is BHVR's intention. The real change is in fact DH for distance being gone which will probably eliminate 1 rotation around every loop, that is a very welcomed change. Map are already big enough for killers, except Nurse, can't we killswitch her again!?, so that 1 less rotation will do wonders in terms of time for killers. Now let's seriously killswitch Nurse and adress the maps and rebalance perks so that Perks can be good without worrying how strong they'd be on Nurse.
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I'm saying thankfully they killswitched the map already, would be such a shame if survivors exploited that... And since the killswitch works why can't we just killswitch other problems? Given the track record of Band aid fixes, you'd expect the killswitch to be the holy grail of band aids. Problems with X? Killswitch it! Praise the Holy Band aid!
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Salty? Nah just this things happen everytime. We can't have a simple update without breaking something. IT's the same story with DbD every update.
How manny issues do you wanna bet there will be with the Balance Update? An update of that magnitude is definetly gonna bring very unpleasent stuff. Remember the Launch of the RE Chapter? I do! Remember the Launch of Twins Chapter? I do!
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3030371#Comment_3030371
A lot of this boils down to thinking that hexes are weak, which, while a statement I agree with, isn't actually relevant.
Even if it were, the solution has nothing to do with boons, the solution is to buff hexes.
They aren't weak, most of them, but they have a gigantic weakness compared to Boons. So much so we have an entire Hex dedicated to take the place of another Hex. Boons don't have that weakness. You don't need to Boon a Totem to protect another Boon. Up to 4 people can get value of a boon even if it's not the person that set it up. That alone means massive gains for survivors. If Boons only affected the person that set it up then setting up boons would be a commitment on the level of using a Hex and in that case then i'd understand allowing Boons to be set up infinitly. Any survivor could bring the killer to where you set up your boon and then the killer can destroy the boon and you get 0 value of it because of the actions of another survivor. Boons being personal instead of aoe could be a good solution. At least it would force multiple boons to be set up instead of 1 Boon being as strong and as valuable.
Hexes don't need buffs, as in making them stronger. The only buff Hexes need is better Map design with well thought spawns. Or At the very least guarantee that Hexes spawn near killer instead of near Survivors, then at the very least Killers could have a way to protect their Totem before it's destroyed in early game. The way current Hexes are, in terms of power, nothing is as annoying as Old Ruin so having Hexes spawn near killer everytime wouldn't be so harmful to survivors plus killers has to venture out in the map anyway so there will be plenty of opportunities to find the HEx and destroy it before it can become very incovenient.
My main gripe is everything is done as an afterthought, why so much time with the same problems? Why so manny years and barely anyone is worried about Map design? I see and hear so few people talk about it. The focus is always on Perks Perks Perks and SoloQ and Survivor vs Killer when killer vs killer is HELL BECAUSE OF NURSE EXISTING. Killswitch Nurse Forever and the game gets 10x better. Sucks for Nurse enjoyers but let other killers have a chance...Map design screws M1 killers, maps are too big, too safe because loops have to occupy the big space, gens are miles away so Perks like Jolt get alot less value, Ruin gets less value cause it's harder to chase survivors away from gens on top of being a Hex and on top of the horrible spawns. Wanna fix Maps and Rebalance the game? Start by getting rid of Nurse, without Nurse's riddiculous TP Maps can be smaller and killers that lack mobility won't suffer as much, with less ground to cover then you can start balancing Perks and by having no Nurse you can make good Perks cause theres no OP Broken killer to make good Perks be broken Perks.
This is the issue with DbD: lack of foresight, everything is an afterthought. Them not expecting the game to grow as big and popular is a riddiculous excuse as to why the game is so messed up at it's core. The game should be the best it can be regardless of being popular or not.
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Another gigantic bug affecting killers... what a shame. At least it's kill switched, we wouldn't want sabo squads sending killers to coal tower and forcing the killer to only have basement hooks now would we. Then we'd have to punish killers if they decided to DC or be toxic if they managed to slug...That being said, when are we KILLSWITCHING Nurse for making every other killer weak? When are we killswitching Garden of Joy?
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I'm not sure that even if SADako had a BFG she'd be able to do much with it. By some coincidence the Fog might give survivors invulnerability against BFG ammo...
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3030327#Comment_3030327
I'm... not certain I follow your point, sorry?
Hexes aren't much of a threat. They can be deactivated before they actually accomplish anything and then they are gone, they're threat level is minimal plus they require alot of conditions. Devour needs hooks, the time it takes to get enough hooks is plenty of time to just find it and break it before it ever becomes useful. Third Seal requires hitting all survivors for maximum effect but the effect is weak itself so it's not a Hex you'll run frequently or ever in manny players cases.
The topic at hand is why infinite boons and obviously we have to bring hexes into the discussion cause they are part of the totem mechanic. Boons are much stronger even if they area of effect is limited. There's potential for 4 people to use boons vs 1 guy using Hexes, Boons have infinite uses vs a Hex's single use (without Undying but Undying itself is a Hex so you're using 2 Hexes which have the same weakness...). You can choose where to place your Boon but Hexes are RNG.
Boons were a bad idea from the get go. It's the same thing with survivors everytime. Great rewards for minimal effort. Setting up a Boon might take some time innitially but unless the killer wastes time getting rid of it then the value the Boon provides is so much bigger that it makes the set up time irrelevant. The way CoH was implemented was a testament to this. EASY MAX REWARD for MINIMAL EFFORT. IT was not well thought out at all, as usual...As much as people want to deny it, Survivor is minimal effort for maximum results. E for safety without counterplay, old DS was obnixously op, og Mettle of Man was beyond bonkers, CoH is BONKERS, base BT will be bonkers.
Sure old Ruin was strong but it was only strong because majority of survivors would fail skillchecks and screw good survivors. Good survivors had no problems with old ruin itself, they had a problem with how Old Ruin was making bad survivors screw good survivors. And old Ruin still has the massive weakness of being a Hex so as much as Old Ruin was a "problem" it also wasn't because survivors could just as easily get rid of it. It was strong but with a massive weakness.
Same with any other Hex, strong, some not all, but all had the same massive weakness. Boons don't have a weakness, the potential rewards are worth the set up time and killers will need to deal with Boons as soon as possible.
As strong as Devour Hope can be it can also just not happen. Bad Map, bad RNG and poof 0 Devour value. The ability to choose where boons get placed is a such a gigantic benefit in of itself compared to Hexes, that using them multiple times is just beyond broken. and killers have no way to isolate that area of the map either so hitting a survivor and granting them their speed burst will allow them to reach that part of the Map.
Too much benefits for minimal effort.
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PUnishment of the DAmned requires commitment. You need to know they are commiting to an action meaning you need to predict the commitment, meaning you need to already be using your power so that you can charge the attack. IF you do on reaction rather than prediction you'll always miss cause you're slower.
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@jesterkind said:
It's because the mechanics are designed with different intents.
Hexes are a little inconsistent because they've been around longer and the devs have had more time to experiment with more non-standard hex concepts, but the core idea is pretty simple- the killer gets a flat, mapwide buff that sharply increases their power somewhere relevant to their objective, and survivors are incentivised to go hunt down the totem and cleanse it to remove that pressing threat.
Boons, on the other hand, provide more limited-area buffs that aren't as directly tied to their objective (EG, a stealth boon or a healing boon, not a repair boon or an exit gate opening boon), and are designed with the intended effect being continual slowdown. The more survivors are relighting their boons, the more they aren't repairing generators and the more you'll be able to predict their location, at least in theory. Similarly, the fact that all the boons except CoH heavily incentivise being chased inside the radius means that the killer's always going to be in a position to snuff the boon mid-chase, bringing both players value; the killer gets to remove the buff for all survivors until its relit, gaining slowdown, and the survivor gets to escape the chase which is plenty of value on its own.
It's not actually that relevant to this topic that a lot of hexes are a bit weak, because it's about the overall mechanic, not specific perks- it's also not relevant that CoH is way too strong, for the same reason.
This concept does have a few holes, and there are some totem spots that weaken the intended effect for either side, but the core idea is pretty sound.
Hexes only become a threat if the match goes longer, except Haunted Grounds. Early Haunted Grounds can be devastating. As for myself, never in 3 years have i ever had a single down because of Haunted Grounds, unreal i know but its the cold truth, never got value from it. Old Ruin was great value because bad survivors hated skillchecks and they screwed good survivors because of it. That was the power of Old Ruin. Skillchecks didn't matter to good survivors but in a game where the chances of getting bad survivors is really high then Old Ruin was extremely valuable. I'd trade half of the current Slowdown Perks just to get old ruin back. Either i'd find bad survivors and slowdown good survivors or i'd get hits on people cleansing the totem. IN a sense Ruins Presence was the same as Old DS, no matter what you had to deal with it. Kinda of a bad thing but Old Ruin was still much easier to get rid of than DS.
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So if you don't have undetectable you're screwed either way, wether you crab walk or not, the perk will indicate that survivor is inside the TR. And you're safe with Undetectable? That's nice but stealth killers killers are still physically visible, they still need to around and waste time going around and avoiding LoS's anyway, so the only change is people won't run away as early cause spinechill won't procc because of Undetectable.
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@TotemSeeker91 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/331056/end-the-dc-penalties
No, the only people who complain about the dc penalties are the people who deserve it
why i really deserve the DC penalty when the rubber banding is rampant and i can't play properly because the game is #########.
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You don't fix things by Banning DC's you fix your game so people don't feel like they need to DC. THey've been avoiding the real issues since forever.
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3027184#Comment_3027184
I disagree. In a game where every second matters, the longer a survivor manages to waste a killer's time, the greater the chances of escape become. DS no longer guarantees escape in the endgame, but it's still excellent at wasting a killer's time.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3027171#Comment_3027171
Iron Will was only useful at tier 3, below that a killer can still track you by sound.
@Laluzi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3027171#Comment_3027171
Nah. How often do you see anyone use Iron Will tier 2? Sound is all or nothing in this game; if there's a sound, the killer can follow it. If someone can track breathing and footsteps, they can track muffled injured noises. Many killers have headsets anyway.
But tier 3 had no counter whatsoever. A change was needed. Not every killer player is going to pick up on only 25% volume from survivors when they have chase musics, event notifications, loud noise notifications, gens, etc going on. Iron Will will still be useful and it's still just an equipa and don't worry Perk. IT's availability and easeness of use still makes it an attractive Perk.
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3027109#Comment_3027109
Honestly, they have no idea what they're doing when it comes to perk changes. DH guarantees you safety as is, and what are they doing to change it? Making it so you can't just use it for distance but still keeping it as a strong chase perk.
They know survivors ran BT because of tunneling, but they also surely know about the bodyblocking complaints, yet they make OTR an 80 second version of BT.
DS is one of those perks that wasn't just meta because it guaranteed escape, but used correctly extended chase. With Iron Will nerfed and Lucky Break now having a way to recharge the timer, I can see Lucky Break being the replacement for Iron Will.
Nurse is proving to be a detriment to the game now and I think it's time the developers start thinking about reworking her from the ground up so that we can get balanced maps.
The upcoming changes aren't going to fix the problems with the game, and they're only going to hurt killer mains and solo q survivors. Post-patch, the game will still be genrush city because it's not survivors splitting up and all doing a gen solo that's the problem.
80 seconds, plus travel time, was more than enough to down a survivor, hook them, use BBQ to locate the next survivor, and then push them off a gen. When survivors double-up on a gen, you lose that gen by time you make it to the hook.
Iron will still has it's use it's just not uncounterable anymore. For the majority of Survivors i still see it being very useful cause you won't always face those killers that just know where you are so more often than not you're still going to get value from it.
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@Kaitsja said:
OTR will be meta. I'm guessing the meta is probably going to be OTR, DS, CoH or Lucky Break and either Dead Hard, Sprint Burst or Overcome.
So 75% of those are the Meta Perks... where's the big meta change then? It isn't because they can't just delete those Perks, they can change them but unless they do something completly different then they will stay Meta.
I'm not excited for the coming changes in the slightest, i'd rather see Map Changes, much smaller maps, less junk around the maps. It would benefit everyone alot more than just Perk changes. They make gigantic maps because they have to make sure Nurse can't be everywhere ultra fast and they fill the mapps with junk tiles to no give Nurse a clear sight on survivors. Every other killer that isn't Nurse suffers because of this.
YOu have killers that literally lose all power and become just guy with knife while Nurse can TP anywhere anytime, her fatigue is just filler.
Limit Nurses range so Maps can become smaller and benefit everyone instead of having M1 killers still useless in whatever PSEUDO META CHANGES they conjured.
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All of them are...
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Because without it's restrictions Nurse is the killer that would make every survivor hate the Perk. She can injure anyone faster than any other killer thus the perk would be extremely valuable.
If you ever wonder why killer perks are made with safe numbers it's because they thought about what Nurse would look like if the Perk was any stronger.
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in 3 years of playing i have never once gotten a down via Haunted Grounds so no i don't use Hexes often. Survivors know what Hex you run. If there's no Ruin then it's Devour, if after 3 hooks you aren't 1 shotting then it's something that doesn't even matter. Thus people rarely cleanse my Haunted and when they do it's when everyone's away from me cause they realised Haunted is the 3rd Hex a killer would make use of.
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@BearMerchant said:
i love stealth killers actually. just because you don't enjoy how they play doesn't mean they don't belong in the game. they don't have to be top tier to be enjoyable.
stealth killers could use a bit of love but they make things interesting.
I don't enjoy how they play, i love stealth, what i'm saying is stealth in dbd is non existent. In terms of stealth survivors have all the advantages. Smaller characters, able to look around corners without exposing themselves, they are more silent aswell and they have perks to make them absolutly, completly silent.
Stealth is for Survivors not killers.
IF you're Scratch Mirror Myers then you're waiting for them behind walls right? Well you'll only make use of it in indoor Maps. IF you're using Nightshroud you have no TR and Stain but the Reveal range and radius is a pretty big weakeness, you can be Revealed by someone you weren't aware off and there's nothing you can do besides eating the cooldown. And you have to expose yourself to stalk, meaning they can see you too, so they can just run ahead while you try to stalk and now you're further away.
And when you are Revealed you got TR and Stain back so you have no aproach and you also have no POWER to do anything else, no mobility, no chase, no stalking cause you can't stalk without stealth, you got nothing. You're Trapper without Traps, you're the basic mold of every killer, a sillouette with a weapon to hit survivors. That does not make sense for any killer. NO KILLER SHOULD BE LEFT WITH 0 POWER.
I'm sorry but being left with no power doesn't make the game interesting to me. Everything GF does leaves him on Cooldodwn, be revealed? go into cooldown, hit? go into cooldown, miss? go into cooldown, pick up someone? go into cooldown... EVerything GF does leaves in with no power. What kind of design is this!? Everything a killer does deactivates him? ######### who came up with these weaknesses?
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@Reshy said:
Honestly, stealth killers just need to be made invisible when too far away, maybe give them a weak mobility option like the Dredge's locker teleport, but requiring you to actually go into the locker first before you do your killer jump cut to being in front of a survivor.
they'd still be a useless M1 killer in terms of chasing on these bloody safe maps.
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@IlliterateGenocide said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3023991#Comment_3023991
Is hope going to give you a 4 man escape for free? no. besides survivors have to do well for it to activate in the first place
yes cause getting all gens done is so super hard... and those extra 10 seconds? wow even harder man oh man how would survivors survive without having 2 more people on the same gen, what would they do without prove thyself, without toolboxes, man oh man what would they do if the maps weren't the size of the grand canyon and 90% of killers have no Teleports....
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@foodie said:
Nothing changes around here. Killer mains crying over and over about absolutely everything that doesn't make their gameplay the most skilless and easy thing to do. Devs are giving killers massive buffs whilst nurfing survivors and buffing useless perks no one will use anyway, and still killers find something to complain about.
You can't have the game be a walk in the park for the killer and an absolute hell for survivors. At the end of the day, you have 5 players each match, 4 of which will be having an unfun time whilst 1 will be running around happily like Dora the explorer. People play this game to have fun, so if you have all survivors not having any fun they will just stop playing or which to killer, then I will wish you good luck in finding any matches.
The biggest issue of the game is its massive need of more objectives to slow down the matches and make it more interesting, instead devs are going the lazy way - making gens 90 seconds. Yet another disappointing update with 0 new gameplay content, 6 years and the devs have not cared enough to add more objectives and more interesting aspects to the game. Lost potential, and the community is not even asking for it, only wanting nerfs to existing content.
Most skill-less? Dead Hard anyone? Massive buffs? Ruin got nerfed but it was ######### anyway, Hex perks LUL, Pain Resonance got nerfed, Pop got Nerfed, Corrupt is now only 2 mins if you don't down anyone so any survivor can just throw themselves at killer for early down so corrupt goes away faster. 10 seconds more to do a gen? OMG what a tragedy for survivors, oh wait the maps are still enormous and 90% of killers don't have MOBILITY, oh no what a disgrace and super impactful change those 10 seconds are....
What is this? Free BT on every hook? Well let me Tank a hit to protect the Rescuer instead....
Survivor has never been Hell, the game is designed for you to win ...You spawn next to gens, next to Totems, doing objective is as piss easy as hold m1 and there's 4 guys holding m1 vs 1 guy doing chases across the entire world , x12.
You are right tho, 6 years in and BHVR still doesn't understand. Casual Mentality is the downfall of DbD.
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@Aurelle said:
So the only good buffs coming for survivors this update can't go live? Hm, ok then.
The buffs to Lightweight, Hope, and Off The Record are fine. Besides, basic survivor mechanics are getting heavily nerfed and a lot of survivor perks are getting nerfed into complete uselessness, so these perk buffs are the only shining light for survivors. But these will probably be nerfed too because killers will complain about anything that's viable for survivors.
Basic survivor heavily nerfed? With free anti tunneling? gens take 10 more seconds lol, 10 seconds is nothing for survivors but never enough for a killer. The problem isn't gen speed per se it's how long it takes a killer to find, chase, hook and prevent gens from being completed. Chases can take however long a survivor can make it which means chasing alone can take more time than multiple gens.
IF you abandond the chase then you gotta restart the whole process again with someone else which is an even bigger time waster.
What survivor Perk is useless? Survivors synergise well with every Perk since survivors are a blank sheet where anything makes them better at something. Killers don't work like that, they powers are suited for something particular, so you need specific things to compliment that. An M1 killer can make decent use out of most Perks but decent use means they don't use them very well.
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@Laluzi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3023991#Comment_3023991
You're joking, right? 😂
Hope is maybe equivalent to half of NOED. The weaker half. When people complain about NOED, they're talking about the Exposed, not the speed boost.
If it wasn't for the 5% haste of NOED you'd be looping killers exactly the same way you did to avoid them the entire match. GF can 1 shot without NOED but he still moves at normal speed so it's relatively easy to avoid getting downed when Marked, unless the rare occasion where you got marked out in the open.
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@DY86 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3023989#Comment_3023989
Just a quick note on ur rant, but If face camping and tunneling weren’t a thing, basekit BT and OTR changes would never be a reality. But from low mmrs to high those happen aggressively it became a necessity at this point .
Also, if u really need scratch marks that last so long to find survs just get a headset, you’ll hear them from miles away. Lightweight even with the changes is pathetic and no one will use it still
Camping and tunneling exist because of the differences between the speed of the objectives. 5 gens are way faster to complete than 12 hooks.
The game has had so manny audio bugs that even using a Headset is useless. Surfaces lose footsteps noises, chase music for killers is super loud and some chase musics are just obnoxiously bad. Iron Will is Meta and counters anything thrown at it. How can you tell me to just use a headset. Survivors who are slugged can still have the no sound bug, to this day and it's been nearly 2 years since that started happening... what good is a headset if there's no audio at all?
Yeah no one will use Lightweight because they are morrons who just follow the Meta religiously because it's EASY to use the STRONG META. Lucky Break is insanely strong so it's basicly a miracle that barely anyone uses it.
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@Phasmamain said:
Yep map design is the crux of most balance issues. While this patch is nice it won’t make maps like garden of joy or eyrie of crows any easier to play on
Absolutly. Using DH as a subject to this, DH would be less annoying if there weren't as manny pallets or windows, and there wouldn't be as manny of those if the Maps were smaller, the time gain from using DH as a dash would be less cause there would be less moments where using DH would prove useful.
Maps need to protect Survivors in some level but BHVR is playing extremely safe with Maps. The only killer that can say screw Maps is Nurse...Nurse was a mistake but a mistake that proves that Map design is awful for every other killer. No other killer can TP without lockers, TV's, placing a portal or a trap. They learned the lesson that Nurse is busted but they haven't learned that they need to change maps so other killers can play too.
they've done agressive chase killers but you can't anti-loop a Shift W survivor. Why can survivors shift W? Because the Maps are enormeous and every loop is enough of a time waster to achieve efficient and effortless ######### W value.
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@Annso_x said:
Survivors got 3 buffs out of the entire thing and yall are crying about it?
Hope "cannot go live" bc a speed boost when the game is basically over is too much, while a perk with 400% gen speed regression is fine?
No one is going to run hope. Also if you think survivors will wait 80 seconds to take a hit with OTR it means you think they won't do anything remotely helpful for 80 seconds, which is a free win for the killer. Finally, lightweight buff is fine, god forbid a really bad perk becomes actually useful..
Like seriously yall throw a fit everytime a survivor perk is made viable and then complain about them always running the same perks. We get it, you want all survivor perks to be absolutely useless. Celebrate spine chill's death and go ask for an other calm spirit nerf or something...
You can get rid of Ruin really fast... How strong is 400% regression if you can destroy within 20 seconds of a match starting!? If Ruin lasts a long time then survivors are doing something really wrong. IT's easy to know if Ruin is active and it's eas to get rid of it. There's 4 guys looking for a totem vs 1 guy to scare 4 guys away from gens while protecting said totem... Yeah Ruin is so problematic...THe only reason Ruin was ever good was because bad survivors sucked at skillchecks and Ruin affected skillchecks which made bad survivors scared of ruin and bad survivors meant good survivors were being affected... Even tho Ruin still had the exact same pathetic weakness.
Endgame is only over cause killers get nothing from it unless they run NOED. Hope is basicly NOED for Survivors. 7% movespeed is way too freaking much. If you have Hope and you get unhooked you have the haste from base kit BT + hope, you're gonna dissapear from killers in endgame. They can't even tunnel you if they tried...
THe point isn't the timer per se, it's the ability to have a "you can't ouch me or anyone else" weapon. Should a killer dare to tunnel then they still have to risk DS so what's the point of the timer? The timer is just rubbing salt in the open wound, it's ludicrous. Plus it can havven MULTIPLE TIMES A MATCH. And the only requirement is , you getting caught by the killer...You can let yourself get caught by the killer on purpose so that you can then use your protection to protect someone else. How does that make sense? THe injured and vulnerable guy is protecting someone else. THA'TS IMUNITY, that's not good at all for the game.
Spinechill needed to go. Killers can't even look at where they wanna go cause 32 meters and bamn you know im coming with basicly 10 seconds of advance. Spinechill was high value for 0 effort just equip it and whenever the icon pops up you have 10 seconds to get to somewhere extremely safe or hide in a corner or locker before the killer even knows where you went. PLUS YOU WERE VAULTING FASTER ASWELL. IF that's not free real estate then idk what is...
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@Laluzi said:
The only one of those perks that's a problem is Off The Record, and only then because it can be used aggressively and forces the same endgame lose-lose situation as DS did.
Hope hasn't changed except it doesn't time out anymore - it's still a perk that only works at the very end of the game, and isn't as much of a gamechanger as Adrenaline. And Lightweight's still not on the level of Lucky Break or Shadow Step.
Hope is NOED for Survivors.
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@Marigoria said:
The only actual buffs for survivors can't go live, ok.
I'm sure you're ok with the "buffs" to calm spirit and pharmacy tho.
Only actual buffs? Yeah cause Base Kit BT is bad AF for you guys right!? 10 more seconds to do a gen? that's Less than 1 minute total added time individually, now start stacking multiple survivors, start adding Prove Thyself and those 50 seconds are basicly gone. What does it matter if killers can kick for 2.5% now? You can still reapply charges faster than the regression rate after the kick, killers still need regression perks anyway. You're gonna lose a match because of 50 seconds? You might but as long as Maps stay as they are, you have all the safety you could ask for. Early game is still just as bad for killer as it has always been. Corrupt got nerfed hard to where putting 1 survivor down immediatly breaks the perk, so you might aswell just give the killer the easy down to get rid of the perk and if the killer doesn't down you and just injures you then that's not an issue he can't down you or all 4 survivors benefit. Plus you can heal super fast anyway should you chose to do so. So what good is Corrupt now? Ruin got it's value gutted and is still a Hex, Pop got nerfed too, scourge hook got nerfed too...ONly Jolt got an actual buff by removing cooldown however the frequency of downing 2 or more survivors quickly is very low, meaning that even without a cooldown you're still gonna get the same value from Jolt. OVercharge only works if you don't just gen tap which you can do midchase anyway so Overcharge is not even a question...
Regarding Pharmacy you have to waste more time searching for chests and oppening them and healing even with fast heals, meaning you're spending more time healing than progressing the game. The longer the game goes the better for killer so while getting good medkits is strong you're giving up quick match progression for the sake of healing. NO DOUBT THAT IN THE HANDS OF SWF it will be busted but Off the Record in the hands of an SWF, or 1 or more SoloQ's, means you absolutly don't need to heal at all which is way way worse than wasting time healing. Off the Record means Survivors are tunneling themselves, like they already do with BT, they love to bodyblock with BT even when the killer clearly is ignoring them but hey gotta make use of that BT.
Lightweight is problematic because of the shadow changes scratch marks and tracking in general got since November 2019. Why would they need to buff lightweight? Just to make it more attractive? Scratch marks disappearing that fast ALL THE TIME is way better than Lucky Break even tho Lucky Break is incredibly strong already and just got stronger too BTW.
You have BT no matter what, tunneling is now a very efficient way of losing games as killer...
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Licker or Krauser as killer and Barry or Carlos as survivor. A fully funcitonal Licker as killer would be conceptually challenging but awesome. Being able to go on walls and ceillings and having a special view filter just for the licker would be a complete new experience for DbD. The chances of it working properly are low but the simple fact you could get to experiment with it is a gigantic benefit and would lead to so manny lessons for BHVR about Map design that even if the Licker project ends up being a really difficult thing to accomplish it would reap tremendous benefits for the game as a whole in terms of possible innovations.
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SoloQ was never their intention... SoloQ only happens because it's unreasonable to have 4 friends always available. Killer queues would be endless.
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Spinechill was a very valuable low effort Perk. High value = High Awareness with ample time and distance to react + vault speed for the low effort of simply having it equiped.
It completly destroys a killers aproach, it completly denies any possibility of stealth via Killer Power or via Perk. How can Stalk killers stalk if stalking requires a line of sight, said line of sight triggered SPinechill so how were Stalk killers able to stalk if looking that way immediatly gave them away?
Spinechill needed the changes. I'd simply nerf it's range to maybe 16 meters and get rid of the vault speed. The 32 meter awareness was the real issue.
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@LapisInfernalis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3012965#Comment_3012965
Isn't that a problem of many people nowadays? That they are not willing to learn? If everything is ez, then it is boring. Sure dbd should not be like Dark Souls or Tarkov, but you should at least use some of your brain cells in this game.
Yeah. It's why playing killer is the only option for some people, some people want to exercise their brain, to theorize and practice add-on and perk combos to make builds, they want to know every single detail about a killers power to master the killer, etc. Same thing still applies to Survivor but in a much smaller scale since whatever survivor you pick it's always the same, there's no unique details to learn. Movement is the same for every survivor for example.
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@ProfSinful said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3012954#Comment_3012954
okay but shift W is not a product of the casual mindset, shift W is the product of poor map design
it's both. If the issue was map design only then they'd change it. They want Shift W to be a viable option.
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@Hi_Im_Chucky said:
I’m a Killer main but I still like the survivors having some Killer Power interactions. I’ve always leaned towards Killers that have the most interactions with Killer Power.
Old Freddy, Pig, Plague, Twins, Pinhead are my most played. You give me a Killer with a Killer Power that survivors have to interact with and not just endure…I’ll probably start playing them. I haven’t given Onryo or Dredge a fair shot yet, so I couldn’t include them. I’m still unlocking P3 Killers.
Also I’m a tiny bit offended I didn’t see kidnapping Victor as an example lol.
That interaction is healthy but most often it's just harmful towards killers because those interactions are way too simple for survivors and very damaging to killers.
Absolutly, kidnapping Victor...What can anyone say to justify that as possible!? did nobody play test it?
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@dspaceman20 said:
Turning SADako's TV's off, Kidnapping Pinhead's box, before that was changed, closing Dredge's lockers when the Teleport itself is slow AF for the majority of the match, why add the extra slowdown of closing lockers, crouching against Hag traps, crouching vs Nemesis Tentacle, Disarharming Trappers traps, etc, there's so manny cases of a killer power being dictated by Survivors.
I'm confused by this... do you want killers to not have any counterplay in general?
They should have counterplay but that counterplay shouldn't be so simple and easy to pull off and neither should it completly disarm a killer. SADako's Condemned is pretty useless, it takes forever to get but is very easily disabled. Plus it also affects her Mobility, Turning Tv's off is way too simple and way to rewarding. Same thing as Revealing Ghostface, way too easy and completly shuts down the killer.
Then you can't counter Nurse, you can juke her but you can never counter her. You can force her to make a mistake but you can never disable her.
You don't control where Nurse can Blink, you don't control how manny times she Blinks, how fast she blinks but you can control and minize Condemned, you can power through Deep Wounds, you can avoid being 1 shotted by Myers or Ghostface by denying them the stalk , by using DH, Sprint Burst, Lithe, etc, you can quickly remove Pig's RBTs, you can disarm Trapper's Traps, you can burn Wraith, you can deny Corrupt Purge from Plague by stunning her, you can reset her fountains by using them all, there's just too much survivors can do to some killers and then there's the same few killers where survivors feel helpless against.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
I bought onryo and artists last bloodhunt and the difference between them is stark. I prefer low tier killers so I play onryo much more often but what you said about the power disparity it's absolutely true. Did you know artist has actual good and useful addons as well? Did you know onryo has a purple add-on that makes survivors scream if she slows herself down and if they're watching her during it? That's all it does. Make people scream. Ludicrous.
Yeah...some killers seem like they have monsths of work and others have a few hours...
I think Pyramid Head is a good killer, capable of doing alot, if played well but still not super opressive, there are options to avoid Torment, there are penalties for using cages at bad moments. His add-ons don't do much but he has a pretty decent base kit. I see Pyramid Head as a role model for manny other killers. A decent special, A passive that is rewarding and a direct counter to the strength of the 4.
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@BrokenSouI said:
It mostly comes down to map lay out. It's not that all killers need buffed. Most maps are just too big and too safe for a killer like the pig for example, trapper as well, wraith, etc etc
That too. But if you make maps smaller then it also means Survivors are closer to killers meaning Trapper has the same issues with Trap placement, if Survivors see him from far away place a Trap then that Trap is useless, they can just go there and disarm that trap, where if they couldn't disarm it then that trap despite being noticed can still work at any given time.
Smaller Maps also mean GF can be Revealed easier since people will be closer to each other, so you have to rethink how Revealing GF works to acount for that aspect. A solution is to reduce the range from where you can start Revealing him, another solution is to increase the time it takes. In smaller Maps Pyramid Head's cages will allow lose some importance, it will be faster to reach someone, but the big thing from his cages is that it denies perks and allows for quick hook stage progression, so not much is lost. Nurse get's stronger in smaller Maps, Blight gets stronger in smaller maps, Spirit gets stronger in smaller maps. Basicly every strong killer now gets stronger while you still need to adress the weaker killers.
Smaller Maps will mostly help in controlling the flow of the match, allowing killers that aren't so strong to reach some places quicker than they can now, but the strength of loops also must be revised otherwise M1 killers still get outplayed.