lemonsway
lemonsway
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DC penalties are dumb because they're a solution to a problem that can be avoided by having a better game and better players. Had BHVR a clue about their game they'd have a game where people would enjoy playing it instead of being frsutrated and scared of getting camped and tunneled and abandonned after going down...
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She'll still be the best killer is a very big issue. Her ability is still putting every other killer in the dust bin by a very large margin.
Killer POWER DISPARITY (aka Killer vs Killer) is just as Important as Survivor vs Killer. Will you still play Trapper if you're in Tournament? No! And why? Because Trapper's chances of winning are slim compared to Nurse's and you want to win so yeah you'll still play Nurse.
Nurse needs to not exist so every other killer can be improved upon. Nurse needs to not exist so BHVR can see how SWF's and good survivors outside of SWF's are trashing every other imaginable killer.
The more and more killers we get the more the gap increases between killers. Instead of there being 4 or 5 killers between Trapper and Nurse now there's 20 something and the reality is Nurse is stil the best and Trapper is still the worst with 2 very big things in between tho which is Trapper is now worse than 20 more other killers and Nurse is better than 20 more other killers.
Regarding the new survivor hud icons they can be a good change if people learn how to use them, that's the issue. Giving free information and call it a solution is wrong because it depends on how people use it.
Real world example, The Internet exists and provides access to virtually everything yet there's so manny uneducated and ignorant people. Same thing will happen regarding Hud Icons for Survivors UNLESS THEY ARE TAUGHT HOW TO USE THEM.
And rather than watching Youtube and Streams to learn that, THE GAME ITSELF NEEDS TO BE THE FIRST PLACE TO TEACH IT'S PLAYERS HOW TO PLAY. That's something BHVR has not done for a very long time and what has happened? You have players who literally follow tubers and streamers religiously and only play whatever way those guys play, which is why you have the META that you have today. This gen rush/gen slowdown META exists because people follow those streamers and youtubers because BHVR FAILED AND TEACHING THEIR PLAYERSWHT IS IMPORTANT and because BHVR made very bad decision in designing the game and then implemented systems like MMR and SWF which are very GRESSIVE system for the core game they started out with.
I don't wanna rain on your parade but be thoughtful and careful about your enthusiasm for these changes. I very much doubt it change anything at all. The skill required to play is the same low level therefore you're only attracting low skill players and thus the SoloQ troubles will continue cause people will not know how to use the tools they were given. Killer disparity will remain the same and the Meta isn't going anywhere, so pretty much 99.9% of the game is staying as is in my eyes.
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Giving more free freebies isn't how you fix things.
This notion that Perks fix whatever is wrong with the game is bery bad. What you're sugesting is just a BAND AID. After You get this then you'll ask for something else, meanwhile the game will never have a stable core system that doesn't rely on more and more BAND AIDS to stop bleeding it's problems.
The fact Perks are as strong as they are showcases the vulnerabilities of the basic core of the game.
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@Xendritch said:
Go play literally any other asymm then? It just sounds like you have an issue with DBD's core identity.
I do play other asym games. I do have an issue with DbD's identity because the game itself has an identity issue. It's clearly a casual game at heart however BHVR has made strides with SWF and MMR and manny other choices that make the game go in another direction. A direction that the base core of the game was never meant to handle and the results of those changes over the years show this.
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@loothound said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3307428#Comment_3307428
How would you revamp or make gens harder? Also its losing, not loosing.
I dont want to make gens harder, just make them work differently from simply holding M1 and change the fact that there can be multiple people holding M1 on multiple gens and accomplish such an easy task that quickly.
Gen slowdown Perks need to be overly opressive or else killers can't have any time to play but then Killers can drag matches to very unfun lengths so Gen Slowdown Perks are not a Solution. And some Gen Slowdown Perks are way too easy to use.
Changing the Time it takes to complete a Gen also isn't a solution because you're just making Holding M1 even more important. The game needs interaction and not holding down a single button.
You can create a true hide and seek gameplay mode where there's a set limit of 10 or 15 minutes and let killers chase people around. The objective for survivors remains Surviving/Escaping but without the pressure of Gen Completion times then killers have a much easier time in actually playing the game, improving chasing skills and you've effectively eliminated the needfor Slowdown and Gen Progress Perks, meaning yes Second Chance Perks will be more popular again but since killer doesn't have such a big time constraint they can still afford longer chases. And the Objective for Killers simply becomes getting as manny Hooks as possible within the Time Limit.
You can make it so survivors must first search for Components to fix gens, which will mean they need to move more which in turn helps killers locate them more and engage with them more which means the necessity for tunneling or Camping goes down. Will some players still absolutly Camp and Tunnel ? Yes they will cause some people are just like that.
How will SoloQ survivors coordinate tho? Let them Ping the Gen they want to work on OR make the game give them a sequential order of the gens they need to work on by highliting the gen they should focus on, that way everyone can know which Gen they should be working on.
Something else you can do is that each survivor can only repair 25% of each gen, meaning all 4 survivor must touch each gen, which will force people to coordinate on which gen to do but gives killer time to intercept whoever needs to go and do their 25% of that gen. This way even if all 4 survivors start the trial seperate they can only have 1/4 of progress on each gen and the time that they need to let go of that gen and find the next one creates pockets of time where the killer can disrupt survivors.
Would that mean tunnelling would break the game? Yes it would and the solution to that is simply increase the capacity of completion the remaining survivors have. So if there's only 3 survivors left then those 3 survivors have an equal split of the gen progress and so on.
Would there be a "need" to tunnel tho? I can't really say it needs proper testing but with people being forced to move around more then the killer is given faster access to chases so the "need" to tunnel should definetly be lowered. And Camping doesn't really sound like an ideal option since you're still static and giving survivors the chance they need to make their progress on the gens, so if they come together and rescue the one person that needs to do their 25% then there's gonna be 3 people ready to bodyblock and annoy the killer.
Gens working like that would fix a problem Survivors have in SoloQ, that problem being the fact people choose to commit to gens and let people reach 2nd hook stage or die. Since you can't do the gen past 25% you are forced to let go of it which gives you the time to search for a Totem for Boon or destroying a Hex or get a rescue or go bodyblock for someone who needs to put their 25% into the gen you already done.
For a 6 year old game there's definetly room for a big shakeup that doesn't simply revolve around number tweaks on Perks but actual fresh Gameplay concepts to revamp and repopularize DbD. The game is bleeding players every month...
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@OneGoodBoyDemo said:
Killers existing is the issue not a symptom
Aren't you tired of being tunneled and camped over and over?
The META is all about NURSE. DELETING HER WON'T SOLVE THE ISSUE, another killer Will replace her and you're back at the start of everything. People will still Go for BLIGHT and INSIDIOUS BUBBA because playing any other way is SIMPLY TREATED BY THE GAME AS WRONG AND BAD.......
Thanks for getting where i want to get at. You're agreeing with me in your own way. You're absolutly right, all killers will tunnel and camp but you're mistaken about why they do it.
They don't have time to afford multiple chases and multiple Hooks. They play to secure a minimum treshold of points THAT REPRESENT NOT LOOSING despite absolutly being losers in the way they play and whoever has to suffer for them to achieve that will absolutly undeniably suffer.
The currency of DbD is Time. The time required for Survivors to do their objective and the time required for Killers to do theirs. Time is in the favor of Survivors, they can work on seperate gens and finish their main objective far faster than killers can that's an undeniable fact. That would be ok if killers could make good progress on their own but vast majority of time it's impossible for killers to get anything beyond 3 hooks and if those 3 Hooks are not on the same person then that means all 4 are still able to escape which is undoubtly a LOSS for Killer.
Killers can prevent someone from contributing by tunnelling and Camping, that's an undeniable fact however there's still 3 other people that can use the amount of time that the killer is forced to spend on just 1 person.
People treat DbD as some super serious game when it isn't and wasn't designed for it. Killer exists simply to satisfy the Fantasy of someone controlling the BAD GUY. While Survivor exists as an Escape from Reality, where accomplishing a simple Task means you're successful. The problem resides in how simple and how fast you can accomplish Tasks.
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@DashMonsta008XV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3298341#Comment_3298341
What?, so take away the incapacitated status all together.Why not just put the perk on a longer cool down?
because the problem is Survivors have nothing to do during the timer and there's no counter to it, you either dont do gens or you're predicting downs like a god. the problem is the incapacitated status effect.
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@Bardon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3298335#Comment_3298335
Minor quibble:
"because there's 12 Hooks as an objective. This is what every killer should be aspiring to, 12 Hooks."
4 kills is the objective, that doesn't necessarily require 12 hooks. Get someone to stage 2 on their first hook as a trivial example.
If you're saying that all killers should aspire to going for 12 hooks every game? Good luck.
Yes i am cause that's the most fun, challenging and rewarding outcome. If killers can't get to that then winning means doing everything that isn't fun or challenging to win which then won't be as rewarding.
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The only problem Eruption really has is that survivors even in SWF have no way to avoid the Incapacitated status effect cause there's no telling when anyone goes down.
The only sure fire solution is to to not go down at all which is basicly impossible. BUT there's 1 possible solution, don't do gens if someone is being chased. BUT THEN there won't be anyone doing any gens most of the time...So then the best course of action is never be in chase which is harder to do than it sounds.
Simple fix is to touch the perk itself: REMOVE INCAPACITATED AND GIVE THE REGRESSION A SLIGHT BUFF. This way the Perk keeps it's useability by giving Regression on downs but allows survivors that aren't pressured to carry on with their match instead of being locked from doing anything.
I can't predict wether Nancy is going down in 2 seconds or loop the killer till i've done the gen. I can't predict Nea won't fail her DH. I can't predict Meg won't Sprint Burst into a Wall and i can't predict Claudette and Dwight won't go into a Bush or a Locker in the killers face.
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But you see the game was originally designed for the 4 solo uncoordinated people experience...
The problem is the game gets too frustrating when that happens because killer is wanting to win and survivors are just trying to play, wether they wanna win or have a more laid back aproach.
So the answer was SWF, solves coordination issue but then inverts the roles and now killer is pressured against organized survivors.
Then killers do all they can do, stack slowdown. And now welcome to DbD as we know it, killer steam rolls SoloQ against the majority of survivors and SWF's steam rolls killer.
This is DbD. And nothing from the base game has been touched to fix this.
So you'd think SBMM would fix this right? Make better players play with other good players and leave the lower skillled players to play with themselves, that way good killers know what to expect and worse survivors don't feel so pressured.
The issue is the Margin Values for MMR are too low and there's only 1 cap meaning anyone can reach that cap because it's a low value cap and we're back at square 0 because again everyone is mixed and skill is irrelevant. I don't doubt the better killers face better survivors most of the time compared to the majority of killers but even then very often due to queue times less skilled killers are simply thrown at the wolves. And then there's no less skilled killers for the less skilled survivors to face thus Solo Q Survivors get hurt aswell. And then even matching just the 4 survivors is a nightmare because there's no skill gap, everyone can reach the low MMR cap and be treated as a High MMR player...
Honestly my opinion is that first and foremost we should look at the most basic aspects of how a match is played and see where the issues reside.
For me killers have 1 big issues that is Map design. Most killers lack mobility and chase tools for the Maps we have. So that means either most killers are badly design or the Map design philosophy is bad because it's not in line with most killer abilities. Personally i think it's the Map Design that's the big culprit and also the easiest to fix because it offers better reward for the game vs the risk it poses in Balancing things out.
Maps are often too big in area for killers to be able to check things and not feel immediatly pressured about simply looking for survivors. Killers need to find a Survivor As Soon As Possible because there's 12 Hooks as an objective. This is what every killer should be aspiring to, 12 Hooks. Wether that's alot or not is a bit irrelevant right now because 12 Hooks might not be alot after the game is corrected in the way that i think it should.
So killers get big Maps but if the Map is mostly empty then the size isn't really an issue because there's nothing to use against the killer right? So the only thing a Survivor can do is Shift W.
And this has been DbD since forever. Bad Map Design, simple Chase mechanics.
This is what i want to change. I want the game to require a higher level of skill to be played well so that we can justify having an MMR system, because SBMM won't go away from MP games. It's here to say wether it works or not and we got to deal with so what we can do is design the game around the concept of SBMM.
I want smaller Maps so killers can pressure things faster and better but this also benefits survivors. Why? Because big maps also mean empty spots or spots where RNG won't favor you. So instead of having a Big Map with RNG which hurts both sides equally. I want Smaller and Fixed Design Maps that make sense for the basic aspects of killers, mobility and chase, and makes sense for survivors in terms of looping. So this means, smaller area for killers and generally less loops to deal with, so chainning won't be as much of an issue and Shift W gets reduced value but to Balance this out you can increase the value a survivor can get out of each loop.
So what exactly happens in this scenario? What happens is killers now have to use MindGames well to get hits because any single loop is slightly stronger but the counter is that there's less Map and less loops to deal with. So killers are always closer to everything because the maps are smaller and they now don't have to worry about chain looping as much because the focus is now more on getting value from 1 single loop instead of abusing Shift W through multiple tiles.
What Survivors get, is a fixed looping path, they know if i go here i can loop and help my chances of surviving and if i get caught then my teammates won't have to travel so long to get to me, so survivors have stronger individual loops, they're closer to each other, which helps with rescues and objective progression because they'll find each other sooner.
This also helps killer, finding 1 survivor means finding 2 or 3 is more likely aswell which means you're pressuring more people faster. This Balances how fast matches progress and naturally avoids the "need" for Camping and tunnelling.
These are the fundamentals of the game that should definetly be looked at and BHVR can simply create a small Map in their Internal Build and analyze this. If they have or not we don't know because they don't share that with anyone. If they haven't all i can say is call them lazy and if they have then we should know how that went because it makes no logical sense that promoting more interaction and fixing serious design flaws would be bad for the game...
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3 gens are a byproduct of bad map design and very unbalanced objective progress for both sides.
both sides have the right to complain about 3 gens. Killers need them and survivors hate them.
Better Map design and Balance is the only solution.
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Remove end game chat, full on anonymous mode as default. There you go, you can't see who's who and you can't complain and accuse anyone of anything. You ######### about it in the comfort of your own voice or you let it go.
The single worst thing about today's society is that anyone can voice their "opinion" before they even think about it.
It's no opression just limitting people's ability to spout nonsense. When there isn't a filter to keep things running in order, only chaos can reign. And chaos is so impredictable that todays truth is tomorrow's lie.
There's one other thing i'd push for with DbD, the option to say wether you enjoyed a match or not should be mandatory. You should not skip end game screen until you rated the match. This would allow the devs to have direct numbers on wether or not people are enjoying their matches.
If matches are being enjoyed by the majority then carry on, however, if majority is not enjoying them then there's work to be done.
Personally i believe right now the vast majority would always vote 1 or 2 stars in their matches, the meta is actually more unfun than it was.Killing an already dead Ruin was pointless, gutting Pop was a terrible choice. I'm pretty sure every killer only wanted E for Distance gone and the general recovery buffs and they'd be happy.
BHVR made too manny changes at once and only a few actually were helpful...
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I won't say SWF's have a major secret plot to buff solo q on purpose so they inherently benefit aswell but i will say solo q's problems revolve around skill and matchmaking. The average skill level is low because the entry barrier is also low and the matchmaking is terrible. Both combined create very bad experiences for the majority of solo q survivors.
We can solve most of the issues with simply having a better thought out and designed game.
You wanna fix Nurse? Make other killers playable at high skill level.
Wanna fix Maps? Delete the bad ones for now, hire people with experience with Map design, get rid of RNG placements for objectives.
Wanna fix solo q? Increase the skill gap so survivors are forced to play in a skillfull manner, those that are good will still be good and everyone else either learns or doesn't. Then Matchmaking will kick in and seperate people rightfully.
Would the game lose some players? Yeah it would but just like i've always said, it's always the casuals that will leave and all the veterans will stay. You might even get some vets to play more or come back because you're changing what's wrong about the game. And with more vets there's a bigger chance for more people who follow those vets to come to the game and you have a new cycle of fresh players.
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Lack of Coordination is Part of the Game for Survivors. Why don't you people understand that!?
The game was made for 4 Solo people to work together once they are Knees Deep and not go there Prepared for everything. SWF onl exists to allow freinds to play together however SWF's inherently offer a level of coordination and information that killers are not prepared to compete with.
YOU'RE NOT BATMAN WITH PREP TIME! And you shouldn't get that Prep Time.
IF you can't change killer once you're in queue then Survivors shouldn't change either. You're stuck with your 3 Builds on that character and that's it, same as Killers.
Information is Super Strong in this game and you people want to give Survivors all the information before a match starts!? That will only work if you give killers the same treatment. And while you can tell me: but Killers already have Lethal Pursuer" i guarantee you Lethal Pursuer doesn't win any match at all. IT let's you see where people Spawn and that's it. IT's precious information ( the perk works for too long imo, i'd make it 5 seconds base and 7 seconds with it's self buff) but it's not a GG killer wins. Survivors can just as easily spread and work on their objective 3x faster than killer can.
So Imagine the scenario where Survivors are already preped and the killer doesn't have Lethal Pursuer... What do you think is gonna happen!?
This is so against the spirit and intent of the game.
Listen, this isn't Evil Dead where you set up a team, and even Evil Dead as whole mid match progression system and loot system to make things more interesting than just picking the right characters.
You can say DbD does that with Perks but inherently every survivor plays the same, not so in Evil Dead, in Evil Dead you are looking for specific things which you may not get because you're unlucky or because you had no time to explore and get them. In DbD you can slap a Perk on any survivor and it will work the same way for all of them. That means the Perks keep their value no matter what. If survivors outside of SWF can coordinate like a SWF then Killers need to get stronger.
You can't buff Solo Queue without also buffing SWF's and you can't buff Solo Queue to SWF strength without doing something to help killers.
I'd go with Map design but that's a tricky one cause inherently Survivors are absolutly blank slates, so their first means of defense is the Maps themselves, the ability to loop and waste time.
If i know you have DH or Lithe and you're in a chase i'll just let you do whatever you're doing and i'll stay on the gen. If i know you have Deliverance then i won't go for you, i'll work on the gen.
Do you see where this is going? I'll always be able to be on the objective because i got access to Information that just makes the game irrelevant.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3288339#Comment_3288339
Pretty much everywhere my guy.
You sound like an angry boomer. Try to relax a bit and not spew hatred towards your fellow DBD enjoyers.
Be factual please, where was i wrong. I'm not angry at all, i'm just not afraid of saying it. I'm absolutly relaxed, i haven't been playing DbD in so long yet i see people talk about the same problems over and over again, each after year, chapter after chapter, nothing changes and nothing will. IT's how DbD and BHVR operates.
The path is set and has been set a really long time ago.
If you enjoy it then fine, it's in your right and i have absolutly nothing against it but you can't deny the reality that veterans carry the game while casuals give BHVR the quick money flow.
You can't deny the game is easy access and requires barely any understanding at all.
You can't deny it's an Horror Action Game and not just hey lets CHILL. It can be a Party game for Survivors but that shouldn't negate what the game is meant to be. But reality is that in terms of Survivors vs Killer, SWF is a really big advantage when used to it's potential. IT's problematic even for the greatest killer players let alone the everyday killer player.
IF there wasn't the chance to party up then the game would retain a higher level of it's Horror Action aproach. And because of that feeling it would also require more survivors to pay more attention.
Maybe then survivors wouldn't 3 gen themselves as much, maybe more survivors would know how to loop, would know how to play against campers, etc,etc. Which would increase the base level of the skill for everyday survivors.
OR they'd still leave the game...
Matter of fact is even the game being as easy access as it is, PEOPLE LEAVE ALL THE TIME. It's not just DbD, it's in every other game aswell.
Where do you think the "Gaming Journalist Difficulty" MEME came from? Because most people want casual gaming experiences. They want pretty graphics, they want big shock value but they want it without beeing asked to have to do something for it.
Demon Souls was a FLOP on release. Dark Souls 1 was a FLOP on release and it took years of Lore diggers and speedrunners to make the game a Cult Following into Mainstream acceptance.
Since then yeah Dark Souls got big but thankfully the game didn't went and lowered all of it's standards to be accessible. GIT GUD.
Do you know what's the % of people with Platinum Trophy in Bloodborne for example? It's a very very low % of players. There's more people who quit it without doing the first story boss than there is people who got the Platinum.
And the same argument applies to so manny other games.
DbD as a game cannot escape this aswell. And there's so manny casuals that it's just a waste of MONEY to not make games for those people. But the bad side is then you have a game that doesn't satisfy either side and neither role.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3288301#Comment_3288301
This is a shockingly bad take.
Where was i wrong?
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@Dogma_loki said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3288301#Comment_3288301
Nice manifesto. Its not accurate, but whatever makes you feel better.
It is accurate tho. The reality is exactly as i described it.
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You wanna have fun? Ditch MMR.
The old Rank matchmacking was pretty good. The only issue was there wasn't any real reset. Someone who reached rank 4 would Forever be a Red Rank player cause they'd only drop to Rank 5, Purple Rank and they could in a couple hours just be Red Rank again. This created the scenario where whoever reaches Red Ranks was Red Rank Forever so most of the games population was Red Rank.
Now you're thinking but that's bad, you got "bad" players in the top Ranks. Thus Ranks are meaningless. And you're right that's absolutly the issue.
However the flip side is that You'd get faster matches, the mixup of skill levels was better and the game was more fun than it has ever been since MMR has been implemented.
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July 2021 100k players on STEAM on RE Chapter 1 fast forward to now just a 1 year later and after RE Chapter 2 we're at the 30ks...
CASUALS GAVE BHVR MONEY because of the Hype for RE Chapter and then left.
BHVR keeps making the game for casuals cause CASUALS = MONEY
As long as this is the path you'll always see the same population pattern happen. The veterans will get more and more tired of nothing ever changing and the loswest player count will gradually get lower.
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That happens because the game doesn't require anything from survivors. Until the game starts demanding something from survivors and only the decent to good and great players remain then will you see a healthy survivor playerbase.
The game is made for the Casuals who come here and want to use a Horror Action Game as a CHILL MOMENT.
DBD ISN'T CHILL and it SHOULD NEVER BE CHILL.
DBD SHOULD NEVER BE FOR CASUALS.
The problem with the Modern World is EVERYTHING IS FREE AND EASY FOR EVERYONE. EVERYONE THINKS THEY'RE ENTITLED TO SOMETHING.
THE YOUNG GENERATION DOESN'T KNOW ######### ABOUT LIFE AND GET EVERYTHING EASY.
Worse part is BHVR only cares about those people because those people will give them money. But guess what, if DbD is existing today is because of the ones that endured all the BS until now and not because you made CASUALS PLAY THE GAME. There would be no GAME FOR THE CASUALS if the same people day in and day out didn't play the game for years.
That's what CASUALS don't understand when veterans complain about the game. They've been there and they've played it, they already know what the issue is but MONEY talks and CASUALS SPEND ALOT OF MONEY.
2021 First Resident Evil Chapter, the gamegot it's highest peak of players on STEAM, 100k players on STEAM. But what happened after!?
The exact same thing that happens all the time, the game lost 60 to 70k players since then, meaning the CASUALS CAME, BHVR GOT THE MONEY and then CASUALS LEFT and here we are again in the same loop...
This happens every year...The same people that carried the game until 2021 are carrying the game through now after the CASUALS LEFT.
CASUALS = MONEY
VETERANS = GAME EXISTS
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Even self admitted casuals are complaining now...
See BHVR? This is what happens when you don't listen and you also don't know how to Balance your game. Your MMR system is completly useless. Your 39 Perk overhaul changed nothing.
CHANGE THE CORE OF YOUR GAME or nothing changes.
We've been saying this for years. You got a good mold of a game but you're not doing anything with it.
You're surviving based on collecting famous IP's. You'd have died without Myers and you'd be dead if it wasn't for the Resident Evil Chapters saving your game 2 years in a row. Your original content has been very lackluster. Who plays Dredge or Artist? Who likes Eyrie of Crows or Garden of Joy? Nobody...
Your top 3 killers according to kill stats are ALL LICENSED KILLERS. Pinhead, Sadako and Wesker...You're a very fine line of surviving solely based on New Licensed Content and you're in that place cause your original designs are bad. and you still refuse to listen.
I legitimetly don't understand why every asymetrical horror game is basicly the same failing formula...They make Map dependant matches. Killer X can't work here cause it's Y Map, Z killer can't work here cause it's W Map. Then the Survivors/Teens are always broken overpowered easy AF to play when the real Fantasy is playing the Monster/Killer/Demon.
How can so manny devs in so manny games simply not understand that the power fantasy should not be broken!? It's the same as Wrestling, wrestling got big because it played into the fantasy of Mega stars wrestling each other. Whats the point of Wrestling when you completly break that fantasy? Yeah they are athletic guys doing flippy ######### but so what? You don't like Stone Cold or Undertaker for example because you like Steve Austin or Mark, you like Stone Cold and Undertaker, you like the characters and they do as the character.
You're all basing your games on franchises where barely anyone survives or escapes but then the games are a nightmare to get anyone killed since every survivor/Teen is a superpowered character vs a Demon/Killer/Monster that has barely any tools which only forces players to play in a way where they have to do very specific actions to get results or else..
Why are you ofsetting the scales so hard!? These games should require team work not have any single survivor/teen be equally as strong or stronger than the monster/killer/demon. if 1 single person can offset the scales then your game is a broken mess.
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Grim Embrace is one of those types of Perks that the game should focus more on. 4 First Hooks means less Camping, less Tunnelling and brings up killer skill in searching, tracking and chasing different targets. Also makes the game better for all survivors since they all can have some action instead of someone only doing gens , someone only doing saves and someone getting camped/tunneled.
Another Perk that definetly deserves more love is Dying Light. A minor rework like making it based on 4 First hooks aswell would increase it's slowdodwn value alot. Instead of trying to get whatever hooks before the final gen you'd get more slowdown early by getting more value from each First Hook. If each First Hook gave 4% slowdown then by the second first hook the killer would be already near a 10% slowdown.
You wouldn't need to stack 4 slowdowns at all. Dying Light and something like Grim Embrace would be really good for slowdown. Then you can always bring something for info and/or chase.
I really don't understand why BHVR wants to reward players on both side for minimal effort when they can SUPER EASILY promote more interaction and positive things instead of defending the negative camping, tunnelling and item based gameplay.
Clearly BHVR fails to see the potential of their own game, let alone know how to balance and promote it.
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@jmwjmw27 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3267701#Comment_3267701
There definitely needs to be some tuning if they're going with this. PH's cages can easily be camped, and he can actually guarantee a down off of a cage save if he's got good timing (anti tunnel perks/basekit BT are nice, but won't get you far against good killers if they smack you immediately). A larger range/shorter timer for teleporting would be nice, but that would need to be balanced to prevent a killer sending it away every time survivors get close and any other edge cases that crop up.
While teleporting away solves camping if survivors can quickly rescue, there are also instances where they can't, or the killer can make it there just as fast, and that needs to be looked at as well. Because then the killer can just camp that new location. It also would require reworking a large portion of the game, including basement and basement related achievements.
It's definitely a hard problem to fix and I can't say I have a 100% effective solution myself.
You're right but at that moment rather than something that can't be prevented it becomes killer player choice to look for that. If the game was in this scenario then the game had already done it's job and the player is just deciding to look for that survivor.
As long as we can say the game did what it had to do then we can't fault it anymore like we can now. Yes even right now tunnelling and camping is mostly a choice made by the killer but the way the game is currently set up favors that scenario. All i wish is to change the scenario so that camping and tunnelling becomes a time waster for killer instead of dramatically reducing the pressure killers are under.
I don't believe in strategic camping. "Strategic Camping" is Camping and that's it. Killers shouldn't fear a Rescue, they should feel empowered by getting a Hook. That empowered feeling should be such that they actively look for the next victim.
For these reasons is why i think Dying Light needs a revision. It's a Perk that benefits multiple Hooks. The issue is Dying Light only gets value too late in the game. A change could be made so that the Perk has some early game value and once you've Hooked all 4 Survivors once you get a boost to that value.
Imagine Dying Light starts off a match with a 5% slowdown on all game progressing actions (including opening gates) and self healing, then with each First Hook it increases it by 2.5%, so after 4 First Hooks, a Hook on every Survivor, you're looking at 15% Slowdown on all game progressing actions and self healing. The numbers can be tweaked a bit for better results if these aren't enough. It could start at 7% base value and then each First Hook only giving 2% increase. It can start at 5% and the max be 10% by having each First Hook give 2.25%. I don't think DL should exceed the 15% slowdown without proper testing.
It's half the value of Pentimento but in a more friendly scenario. The killer is actively engaging all survivor players and it's not forcing any survivor to look for any RNG spawns that just make the process even more frustrating.
The Perk will lokk strong thx to it's initial benefits but imo it's not super detrimental to survivors either. There's counters for it already. Team work will still offset the scales in survivor favor but DL new initial slowdown gives the killer just a bit more time, that some killers really need, Trapper, Myers, Hag, Demo. Toolboxes still exist aswell, so survivors would have options to offset the Revised Dying Light.
The fact that there's an initial benefit to DL favors all killers equally and the fact that the scalling isn't so high makes it so better killers like Nurse, Spirit and Blight won't get so much more value, they can double the value quickly but they are only getting that value from First Hooks so they need First Hooks which levels the playing field a bit in terms of tunneling but for other killers that value is very apreciated, it buys them more time to get the next First Hook and buff their Perk and improve their time of play.
I've already considered the tunnelling options after just the initial Slowdown from DL and getting 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 First Hooks and then tunneling someone out. I'm not forgetting Perk stackability either.
The point i want to make is that as long as the game is incentivizing heavily going for new targets and not just Tunnel and Camp then i'll be happy.
Personally if DL worked this way, i'd use it alot. While i understand it's a flat passive non breakable boost for killers just by having the Perk equiped that's still a better solution than facing 4 slowdown Perks.
Would you still see people stack more slowdown on this? Ofc you would. People will stack slowdown always as long as the game allows them to. Same goes for stacking healing speed, repair speed, vault speed, other animations, movement speed, etc.
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They already have a solution to Camping and to making Tunnelling harder. Just rework Pyramid Head's Cages into the game's natural Hooking process. Every killer triggers an animation, survivor is sent away and there you go, 1 less hook state. They can even have different animations for each killers.
You can change all Hook Perks to work with this aswell, which gives anti tunnel Perks new strength since you already have a big headstart. And you now also give killers their hook perks. Some perks will actually benefit from this. Make Your Choice is easier to procc, Devour Hope stacks are easier to get aswell, etc This solution buffs both sides in numerous ways. Makes saves easier for survivors so absolutly no one should be left behind because the save was "impossible". The quick animation also gives killers more time to effectively patrol gens and spread pressure. Buffs high mobility killers but gives less mobility killers a quicker way to apply pressure where needed without wasting time and risking pick up saves.
Pick up saves would only really work in locker scenarios but those are being written out. Pallet saves won't really happen either. Some perks need to get reworked. There's a reason to change some other barely used perks like Buckle Up, Boil Over, Flip Flop.
The process eliminates the need for slugging too unless for some reason the killer wants to. Given that base kit UB might come in play then there's a natural counter to it despite not being needed much.
Honestly it's something that should definetly be tested.
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The problem is the Gen kicking Meta for killer is way too obnoxious. Overcharge alone is already too much for most survivors to handle. Even Opression is. Can you imagine if the regression on the other 3 random gens was slightly better? Opression would be the only Gen Perk you'd need. However just like always people would definetly stack other gen Perks.
Regarding Eruption, the worst part is clearly the Incapacitated effect. You won't always know if people are in chase or not and you won't know when they are going down so it's very hard to play around it.
The best counter as always is to just finish the gens faster before Eruption gets value. It's all survivors can do, be more efficient.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3264607#Comment_3264607
If you're a potato, then you will lose more games than you win. So it really doesn't matter if you're losing less MMR in some of those games, you're still losing MMR.
But you're losing less MMR than you should by 1 escape existing. You're being protected even when you're clearly doing bad... Why are we protecting these players? SoloQ is already miserable as it is we don't need to protect the worse players more and have even more players on the same MMR braket as the better players...
MMR is irrelevant but that's because the system doesn't work, if it worked i'd probably consider this change as BHVR has presented it but MMR makes no sense as it exists currently and the kill rates are obvious evidence of the lower skill level of the general population, you can't honestly say Sadako is a great killer, she's not bottom 3 for sure but she's not the monster that the statistics show either. So the only justification possible for those statistics is the lower skill level of the majority of the survivor player base.
The pick rates for Sadako are very low aswell which means there's only a handful of dedicated , higher skill players, playing Sadako that's why her statistics are what they are, high skill killer players vs low skill survivor player.
How can such high skill players be facing so manny low skill players? BECAUSE MMR IS USELESS! It doesn't work when the Cap is so low that low skill players can reach the cap so easily.
Thus lessening the impact MMR losses have for bad players is not a good move. It's simple logics. The only way to invert the situation is for the MMR gains for Escaping to increase by quite a good number so that everyone is focusing on getting more escapes, which might result in more team effort but it's not guaranteed. What would wield better results is to focus instead in teaching players to be more team oriented, that in turn will wield better results in match satisfaction and fun and interactivity between players.
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And not only does SoloQ remain the same, so does the gneral game Balance where for killer the game will still count everything as 1v1v1v1. It's all about the individual chases for killer when doing fast chases is not only not always possible but also doesn't guarantee wins. If the killer can't pressure the Map well then individual chases won't work cause there's always someone free to do gens. Killers need to keep as manny survivors busy with something other than gens as much as possible.
And no the answer isn't to just go 4 slowdown Perks the answer is to make the game better and an even playing field for all killers, the power creep among killers is just as important as the killer vs survivor balance. The answer is to make the system count the input of survivors as a collaboration effort. Only then will the game consider the strength of the 4 vs the strength of the 1.
Only then will MMR actually make sense.
It's been 6 years, we have enough Maps to where you can do a single layout for each of them and still have enough Maps on rotation to keep the game fresh for everyone. We can get rid of the RNG and Balance maps to be fair for both sides. Why don't we get this!? Idk, maybe by now it's actually impossible to remove RNG from the maps, who knows what the moldy spaghetty code allows...
What the spaghetty code does allow tho is for BHVR to track team work from survivors cause you already get it tracked. There's Co-op BP bonus for doing gens with someone else. there's the REunited BP bonus, there's the Assit BP Bonus...
IT'S ALREADY THERE.... that's the worst, most agrevating thing out of this USELESS MMR BASED CHANGE.
BHVR keeps defending a useless MMR system, that nobody likes, nobody asked for and that's clearly so flawed that it shouldn't exist anymore yet stuborn as always BHVR will defend their decisions till the end in spite of everyone knowing the facts...
The MMR experience is horrible for everyone on both sides! Yet instead of defending the players what does BHVR do? They stick to MMR cause someone somewhere decided that it should be a thing. Just like the new Survivor Loccomotion or the HUD CHANGES nobody asked for, wasted resources on VANITY.
That's what really hurts. Knowing they have the power to do something that will undoubtly benefit everyone and instead they make the things nobody asks for and they stand their guns on things everyone dislikes.
It's the same thing with CoD developers, they insist on doing things everyone calls them out on. You can't even call campers campers, theyr're precious sentinels...Next i'm predicting BHVR will asks us to stop calling campers and tunnelers like that too.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3263594#Comment_3263594
Survivor MMR will be weighted based on how many survivors escape.
If you die, but so does everyone else, your MMR goes down significantly.
If you die, but everyone else lives (likely due to your contributions), then your MMR goes down slightly.
Presuming you are actually playing well, consistently, your wins will be worth more than your losses, and your MMR will go up accordingly.
I'm not exactly sure what your issue is. You say it should be counted as a 4v1 instead of 1v1v1v1... but that's exactly what this is doing...
If you're a potato and you're the only dead then the game is benefitting you BECAUSE IT'S ONLY COUNTING ESCAPE RATIO FOR MMR.
Wether you play well or not won't matter at all as long as someone Escapes then that is alleviating the MMR loss that you will have. It's not judging how the Escape happened at all, it's only counting the escape regardless of whatever happened.
This is another Casual Gamer benefit, they can now die and lose less MMR.
Not that MMR matters at all, it doesn't, but BHVR is doing this change just because of MMR not because they want people to help each other. That's my dissapointment.
IN the end it's all about Escapes and MMR not about having better team work and less selfish survivors, both of which would be a massive boost to SoloQ life.
If i'm playing well then i'm more likely to escape so my effort is making bad survivors keep an MMR level that they shouldn't be at.
IT's not counting it as 4v1 at all. It doesn't judge what makes the escape possible. You can go hide in a bush all match and escape anyway, where's your contribution to the team? You can let me die so you get Hatch, you can let everyone else die so you get hatch. Where's the team play?
This change is borderline useless and it's spitting in the face of the people that do try to play the game as a team. I don't need Comms to know wether or not a killer is camping, i don't need comms to know where a killer is, i don't need to do what SWF's do to win so SoloQ would be absolutly fine if players weren't selfish but players are selfish and this change to lessen MMR loss based on EScapes will keep saving bad players and keep them higher in MMR so SoloQ will remain the exact same problematic experience.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3263583#Comment_3263583
Exactly. MMR is just a way to estimate the chance of winning or losing on average. How you win or lose doesn't matter.
And that's good because?
It's literally not. It's literally not even a change, you're simply losing less MMR if you get sacrificed as long as someone survives. BUT SOMEOME SURVIVING DOESN'T MEAN THAT YOU HELPED, which is what this change is supposed to mean. IT's supposed to reflect wether you help them survivor or not.
I can still go hide in a bush all match and get hatch and even if hatch doesn't count for MMR then who cares? Everyone and their mother is Top MMR when the Cap is riddiculously low....So MMR useless, so losing less MMR or gaining a bit more MMR based on how manny escapes or kills there are is absolutly redundant. It changes nothing.
There's still no point in helping each other as survivor, you'll still see manny survivors not help each other. Which changes nothing in SoloQ and still has the issue or making SWF's better. You're gonna SWF with reliable people so even if someone in the SWF dies they lose less MMR but SWF players do help each other unlike SoloQ. And you don't need Comms to help each other, the simple fact you can rely on someone else is already a strong enough reason to SWF over SoloQ.
That's why the game should be made with Team Work in mind instead of giving survivors a way out by playing selfish. Personally i feel much happier knowing i helped others even if end up dead instead of going LoneWolf and surviving. Me being a dick and surviving means jack sheet if everyone else dies because i didn't help them. Me dying because nobody was willing to help me, pisses me off because with me dead i can't help them either. IT's a lose lose for the survivors because they opted to be selfish and not help me.
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@Deathstroke said:
What I head you don't lose as much mmr points if you did well in match but still lost survivor or killer. But would you honestly want to gain mmr when you're losing? I don't because that just puts you agains't better survivors or killer.
The point is they really aren't changing anything at all. I obviously can't speak for everyone but i feel very disapointed because the change they are making is just MMR gain or loss based on escapes. If 4 escape everyone gets a bit extra MMR, if everyone dies they all lose MMR, if 1 ,2 or 3 escape then whoever died loses a bit less MMR and the others gain a bit more MMR.
So in the end all that matters is MMR not what you did in the match and how you died and they escaped. So doing team work means jack sheet.
Which is wrong, when the game itself already rewards you with BP and Emblem Progress for doing Team work stuff, whenever you get closer to another survivor you get Reunited BP, when ever you aproach a Hooked survivor you get Assist BP, when you do gens together you extra Co-Op BP as bonus on top of the individual BP you get from working on the gen, same thing for healing others... How the hell can the game already be doing that for BP and Emblem but then MMR only counts the end result?
In the end wether i sacrifice myself to save someone else doesn't matter at all, if i heal them or we team up on gens doesn't matter. I can just play as a ghost and it's the same #########. I CAN BE SELFISH AND NOT BE PUNISHED; IN FACT I CAN LET EVERYONE ELSE DIE AND STILL ESCAPE.
The game promotes such a high level of selfishness when it has all the tools to promote Team work and reward team work.
And MMR is useless anyway and will be even more useless since now people will lose less MMR so they're still gonna be in a higher MMR bracket than i should be.
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@Seraphor said:
It's not Skill Based MM, It's Kill Based MM, and that's fine, because it's impossible to account for various different playstyles. How do you compare Blendette's Sole Survivor plays against Neon Nea's flashlight skills? You can't.
So yes, all that matters is going to be kills or escapes, but it the amount each kill or escape is weighted depends on other factors, then those factors matter as well.
If you play well as a survivor, then you contribute to your teams ability to escape. Most of the time you will escape, but the times you don't, other survivors may escape for your efforts. Your losses will therefore be worth less than your wins, and you overall MMR will be higher.
Remember, MMR is an averages game, not game-by-game.
But survivor isn't a 1v1v1v1v1, it's a 4v1 that's the issue. That's what BHVR should fix. Both Claudette and Nea can escape without helping each other directly. What sense does that make? Hows that fair towards killers or just in general? Why will i help you survive? I don't get anything for it...
This is the issue that needs fixing.
If MMR losses are lessened then bad players will still be put in higher MMR because if someone escapes then they lose less MMR. You're keeping bad players on even higher MMR that they don't deserve.
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@Shroompy said:
The reason why is because if you have everything taking into account then you simply have a worst case of what we already have, but closer to the old rank system.
The problem with the old system is if everyone played well, then theoretically the majority if not everyone in the lobby would pip, or at the very least safety pip. What this means is the game sees everyone winning meaning they would climb to a higher ranks and the game doesnt determine anyone a loser. So you had people who had no business being in the higher ranks but were there anyway because they did the bare minimum for the game to consider them a winner. This was very apparent towards the end of a season having people of all skill levels at red ranks.
If we do the same thing to MMR, what do you think will happen? The only difference it would make is BHVR would have to increase the soft cap more often because people would be at a level they have no business being in
You wouldn't see people in ranks they don't belong if they couldn't SWF. How manny SWFS are made of 4 good players? Most SWFS are like 1 or 2 good survivors carrying the entire team. Which is why when there's 4 good survivors then the game is unwinnable for killers.
But SWFing is a major appeal of the game, so if that's the case then promote that but Balance the game so wether you're solo or SWF the chances of winning are the same, which in turn makes the game an even playing field for killers because wether they are solos or SWF won't matter anymore because the game is designed with the that scenario as it's base.
That scenario is why "Comp" DbD is not based at all on Kills and Escapes but rather on Points based on actions, yes said actions do lead to escapes or kills but that's the end result not the single factor that decides skill.
MMR being only focused on escapes and kills and pitting the game as 1v1v1v1v1 is why 99% of population is considered Top MMR. My ability to escape as survivor is completly based on me. If i'm last survivor i can still use hatch to escape. So wether or not the the 4 survivors did well there's 1 that can get a free escape regardless. Which in turn makes every single survivor selfish to the point that they let others die just so they have the hatch option and not do gens.
So you think because that guy escaped and i died he's better than me and i should Pip but he should because he escaped?
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@dugman said:
Because the object of the game is for as many survivors to escape as possible. If three or four survivors escaping isn’t a win for the survivor side and at most one survivor escaping isn’t a loss then what is?
But you're only focused on the result and discarding everything else. That's like using 4 slowdown perks or 4 second chances. You don't give a ######### how you're playing and how it affects everything else as long as you get the objective and you win.
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The 4 falls from heights for survivor is broken aswell, 1 hour and 30 mins later after playing Ormond, The Game and Iron Works of Infinites i still don't have 1 single fall counted...
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@Dennis_van_eijk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3240117#Comment_3240117
So this
"So what do Casual and low Skill players do? They give up, and they do that alot. And it's because they give up alot that DC penalties exist"
Is your reason why dc penalties should not exist?
If anything you just answered why they should exist and that they are doing exactly what they are meant to do.
You write entire essays that make absolutely no sense, but this is the first true part you've written that made sense.
You even showed why it exists and it's doing it's job well.
No they shouldn't exist. They only exists because people feel like DC'ing because of how the game is. If the game was better people wouldn't want to give up and DC that often because of stuff like the map, the killer they faced, some random bugs, being held hostage, etc. The game would have better maps, better balance and better safety and security so most of the reasons you'd DC for are gone from existing, which then makes DC'ing either a ragequit or an unforeseen non player controled event.
I've had matches where i was winning and i've been DC'ed because of power outages, i got banned on top of the frustration of the power outage. Is that fair? I've lost connection because of some error with the servers, i've lost connection because of rnadom erros from DbD itself, i've lost connection because of hackers, i've lost connection because of this and that and whatever else. How the hell am i responsible and eligible for a penalty when none of those things are my responsability or choice!?
You're ignoring the whole reason of why people DC to justify penalizing whoever DC's because there's alot of DCs. You're only focused on people DC so they must be penalized.
Let's make the game better? Nah let's just give whoever DC a penalty damned be the reason why the DC happened.
What there's manny DCs? Why tho? Who cares why! bring the BAN HAMMER!
How manny people do you think actually want to abandon a match and don't because they know the penalty is worse than killing themselves?
Ther's as manny DCers as people who kill themselves but killing yourself has no penalty. I can still escape if you #########. SAme as if you DC but no no no DCs ruin matches right? Giving up on hook is fine but DCs? Oh no what shall we ever do...
If you feel like DC'ing BUT don't DC it's not because the game is actually fine and you like it. You're not DC'ing because you know the result of DC'ing is even worse than enduring this particular bad match and you're hoping that the next one will be better. And you want that next match to come quick so you can forget the bad one faster. But if you DC you're not forgetting that bad match any faster...
And like i've said and proven the game is made for Casual and Low skill people, these people won't have the will and obviously the skill to endure one bad match anyway so they'll most likely DC. So if the majority of players is Casual and low skill then a large number of people will DC meaning a large amount of people are out of matchmaking and the process goes even slower than it does regularly.
Why would any game inflict itself with very slow queues because they're punishing their intended target audience?
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You want to know the real reason DC penalties exist?
BECAUSE PEOPLE GIVE UP TOO OFTEN. Because it's a reoccurant thing.
So why do people give up?
Easy to explain. Wether you do plenty or little in a match doesn't matter, wether you do good or bad doesn't matter. You go 0 Pips or 2 Pips? Doesn't matter.
Doing gens, rescues, heals, boons, totems, chases, kicking things, hitting survivors, using your power, getting hooks, THEY DON'T MATTER.
Unless these actions are DIRECTLY TRANSLATED into ESCAPES or KILLS then they don't matter. Only the end result matters.
IF EFFORT DOESN'T MATTER then obviously the SKILL LEVEL IS LOW because nobody will in their right mind sweat for a match where it doesn't matter. ONly the Competitive Mindset people will do so because getting the END RESULT IS THE ONLY SHOW OF SKILL. However there's very UNSKILLFULL ways of achieving the END RESULT. BEcause the game allows such unskillfullness.
The Grade system is a GRIND system disguised as PARTICIPATION AWARD. You're getting Monthly BP just so you keep GRINDING SOME MORE.
The GAME IS CASUAL BECAUSE IT'S A GRIND FEST and the GAME DOES NOT REWARD SKILL IN ANY WAY. This means the skill level will be really low in the majority of players as proven by MMR statistics and the statistics from kill rates and pick rates for example showcase that too, the game is CASUAL BECAUSE THERE'S NO REWARDS TO INCENTIVIZE ANYTHING OR ANYONE TO GET BETTER.
For example, Mastering a Killer doesn't really mean much when you can you will be facing low skill opponents for most of the time. Learn them all, play them all, that's the objective, wether you do good or not doesn't matter. It's not a bad message but you're putting PLAYERS VS PLAYERS, things have to make sense and have meaning so that skill can be determined but most things in DbD don't make sense. You can't be a Casual grind game when you're also a PvP game. You either reward skill or perpetual playing. You can't do both.
So what do Casual and low Skill players do? They give up, and they do that alot. And it's because they give up alot that DC penalties exist.
DC penalties is nothing but a band aid that punishes players who aren't really at fault because wether they play or not, wether they do well or not, there's no reward. SO THEM DC'ING OR NOT WILL END UP IN WIELDING THE SAME END RESULT THE MAJORITY OF THE TIME.
The only "reward" is YOU PLAYED. When your game is satisfied by simply having people playing it without any real reason or goal then people won't care if they play or not. IF people don't care then they DC, if too manny people star to DC then you gotta change that so you punish them for DC'ing when it makes no sense.
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I've even suggested an actual improvement for DC penalties. Don't apply them immediatly, see if the player is on a repeating pattern first.
Check if player loses connection frequently, is reporting any strange things, is being put on a bad connection match because of queues. Then decide to start banning the player or not. And instead of a 5mins ban maybe you can start with a 10 or 15 minutes ban because you have information about what is happening with this player.
This would be a much fairer and effective system instead of immediatly banning people left and right no matter what.
Remember the release of the first Resident Evil Chapter? I do, it was a disaster people, mainly on console, were being kicked out of the game left and right and racking up Penalties without them being at fault at all.
This went on for too long. They had to deactivate DC bans obviously because players weren't at fault. SO if 5 years in the game was that troublesome, how can DC penalties be defend? Clearly the game has stability issues.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3239219#Comment_3239219
DCs ruin matches. One screencap with no context means nothing.
A DC Ban without context is meaningless. Other players will never really know why someone DC's. There's plenty of game realted, non player related and external situations that cause DC's.
But the matter of the fact is that DC penalties will punish you regardless of the reason why the DC happens.
IF you DC because you're being held hostage, by cheaters or someone grieving you, you will be the one to get punished and nobody will remove that DC penalty from you when you were the one on the receiving end of something bad. Tough luck, here's a penalty for you...
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3239219#Comment_3239219
Well of course they don't always ruin games. It will come down to other factors such as skill of the players involved. You can't show one game and cry "See! DCs don't ruin games."
But that's exactly my point! DC don't ruin matches. There's a whole bunch of things that are involved in a match. So DC bans existing for the sole reason that it ruins matches is not a valid reason for them to exist. What i'm saying is there's manny factors as to why someone DC's and manny of those factors come from things that are game related not player choice. So enforcing a penalty on someone because they've chose to DC because of some game related issue is not benefitial at all for the game.
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watch this DC RUIN THIS GAME!
Claudette gives up right away because SKILL ISSUES. And the 3 of us do 5 gens, break Pentimento, do multiple rescues and heals and ESCAPE.
NOW TELL ME DC'S RUIN MATCHES.
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@Dennis_van_eijk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3238361#Comment_3238361
Well to be honest, i have no interest in a entire rant essay from people who are salty.
If you have plenty to play then why getting so extremely upset about this game when it is unfair to you? 🤷🏼♂️
Okay you were talking about how unfair this game is and then proceeded to matchmaking and cross play, and then you lost my interest 😅
Look, just step away from this game, don't think about it and just play every other game you want to play.
Then do exactly the same as i have done last year and uninstall or delete this game.
Trust me, it does wonders
If you've deleted and uninstalled then why are you here?
I'm not salty just questioning dumb design decision. SO far nobody ever has presented a reason to why Dc bans should exist.
IF you can't understand how DC penalties are influencing everything else and why everything else influences why people would DC then that's on you.
I've already told you i play whatever i want to play. Find a decent argument.
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@Raccoon said:
That lemon sure is taking this 'casual game' seriously!
Somethings just make no sense. Why would you implement such a thing in a casual game but keep the core of your game as casual as possible?
Why have an MMR system that is so bad that everyone can be top MMR with as little effort as possible? Everyone can claim they are Top MMR and they are right, getting 1600 MMR is a joke and if you're 1600 MMR or 5384653465836456345 MMR it's exactly the same. So everyone is top MMR, so where's the point in MMR existing? Where's the skill gap exactly?
MMR only counts kills and escapes so whatever happens to get to those results matters 0, it's why you have killers camping and tunneling left and right, cause the game design is so wrong that skill matters not as long as you get RESULTS, so all the cheap tactics are fair game.
I've already presented ways to permenantly eliminate camping and nearly eliminate tunneling but they don't care, they don't want feedback, at the end of the day they only care about what they wanna do, not what the game needs or what we the players have to say.
You have all kinds of killer players defending it's absolutly impossible to win without 4 strong gen perks, when that's not the reality, it's absurdly hard yes but that's because the game is just badly designed. And these are the exact same people who will camp and tunnel with Bubba and then ask why how did they still lost gens? BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT PLAYING, you're doing nothing and preventing others from playing aswell.
And then those that actually try to play the game are facing the absurdity of unfairness that the game has. And should they decide that they had enough of that unfairness they are then met with a ban because them DCing is an absolute crime.
People play in a very unfun way BECAUSE THE GAME TELLS THEM TO DO SO. Have you seen the tutorial for this game? It's been 6 years and it only ever got updated once!
I'm simply questioning design options that are obviously and hilariously bad but somehow people defend them but they know not why they defend them, they just do.
I'm here time and time again pointing out facts and nobody has so far presented a reasonable counter for and yet most everyone is defending DC penalties without a solid argument for it.
Just give a good argument as to why DC penalties should exist.
I've already dismantled the It ruins the match for everyone argument but i'll do it again. If a killer DC's then gg i survive i get to go next match. If a Survivor DC's then that's 1 less gen i gotta work on for Hatch and i may even fall in the killers good graces or actually get the gens done and escape via gate BECAUSE I WON'T GIVE UP like most everyone does. Someone DC'ing won't RUIN my chances of escaping because it's a 1v1v1v1v1 game, which is a dumb thing and is why people are very selfish.
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And since cross play and 6 or 7 platforms aren't enough AND AS FURTHER PROOF OF THE UNFAIR BY DESIGN nature of the game they've created MATCHMAKING BP INCENTIVES to "Force" people into playing specific roles that are needed.
Why would you need to "Force" people into playing a specific role? Shouldn't both roles be rewarding to play? Should the game be fun and rewarding regardless of the role?
Ask yourself why are people not playing then?
If people are already not playing it then why punish everyone even more by DC penalties?
My queues will take longer because there's less people playing, if i get an unfair match then i'm just back to Queue. I'm in a lobby Sim now. Wow what an experience...Ofcourse people will go play something else and the player count doesn't grow.
Steam charts don't lie, DbD is only ever populated around events, rest of the time is sitting between 30 to 40k players on a good day.
There's a low player count on the most optimal platform, PC.
But yeah let's keep defending DC penalties right? They're absolutly awesome.
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@Dennis_van_eijk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3237664#Comment_3237664
So basically what you are saying (didn't read it all) is that the game is really unfair?
Here's an Idea, play a different game if it's so unfair, it's really not that hard to do.
I don't really see your problem 🤷🏼♂️
Ofc you didn't read it all, you and 99% of the people don't read things at all, that's precisely why people keep advocating for something without even understanding what they're advocating for or why they're advocating for it.
I do play other games, i have plenty to play.
My problem is the game punishes people for a choice that they are free to make in a game that is unfair by design. It's rubbing salt on an open wound for no reason.
Cross-play already exists and the game is on 6 or 7 platforms now and Queue times are horrible and without crossplay on then finding amatch takes forever so why why keep even more people away from matchmaking? Keeping people away from matchmaking only makes matchmaking take longer and then the games will be even more UNBALANCED AND UNFAIR leading to more frustration and more people willing to DC and then it's on repeat with even longer queues and even more unfair matches.
There's LITERALLY NO BENEFIT WHATSOEVER TO DC PENALTIES. Plus it's a casual game, it's doesn't even have a ranked mode. MMR means absolutly nothing and Grades is just for BP rewards. So there's isn't even a "competitive" reason to have DC penalties.
Plus Cheaters don't get DC penalties but they can force the decision on other players to DC or stay in a match till the server finally wakes up and goes... "hold on this is going on for 2 hours!? bruh turn it off". This is what the servers do!
People are defending DC penalties like they do something good when they don't, they never did and never will.
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@Ashes said:
while i don't advocate DC'ing because of the map or the killer specifically, i do think it's something to consider about the quality of life, balance, and possible levels of enjoyment in the game with such wiildly varying factors. it makes me think that the game is not meant to be balanced but rather to arbitrarily give one side a major advantage over the other. simply considering a lot of the killers' toolkits and how these fare on maps of differing sizes makes it obvious how variable the difficulty is. take pyramid head as an example, he's not that strong but has good antiloop and a little ranged attack that can get through walls, but put him on a large, open map against skilled survivors and he is quite struggles, whereas on an indoor map, it's almost an auto-4K. i think this definitely contributes to pick rates of certain killers considering some killers are much more versatile, and the majority of maps are outside, which is bad news for our pal pyramid head.
regardless, if the game is not meant to be balanced, it will undeniably result in players feeling like things are not fair and more likely that leaving the match is the better choice rather than negative fun for the next 15 minutes. what if the previous matches were also heavily stacked against them? a few days ago, i had a few rounds in a row where i scored highest on my team despite being the only one dead at the end, because none of my team wanted to risk themselves saving me after i had just saved them. this left me feeling a bit sour and then my last game, map loaded, i stopped to drink for 10 seconds and before i could put the cap back on my bottle, i had been slapped by a deathslinger, who then shot and reeled me in. now that is purely bad luck, he must have spawned pretty close to me and probably even had lethal pursuer. i just left the game, i couldn't be bothered any more, the few games before had been not much fun and this was an awful start, so i went and played ghostbusters instead.
go on, tell me i'm a terrible person for leaving the game, go ahead, i don't care if anyone thinks that. this is not a concentration camp, we pay to play a game, it should not feel like suffering to play it.
this right here! This happens so freaking often.
The game is unfair by design. Why DC should be punishing people further is beyond me. It's just rubbing salt in an open wound.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3236409#Comment_3236409
We all know what the variables are going in, so if you're not willing to deal with the match conditions you are dealt, don't queue up, simple as that.
DCing, especially early, absolutely ruins a match. I have I been on a team that won a 3v1 where a teammate DC'd early? A tiny handful of times, either because the killer sucked, or we played out of our minds. But an early DC is pretty much GG or farming time.
So rather than rant about this for the 10,000th time, I'm gonna link to a clip from an OhTofu vid from the other day where he was ranting on the subject, and it kind of sums it up, imo (NSFW language):
NO YOU DON'T KNOW THE VARIABLES GOING IN! Maps will be RNG, SPAWNS WILL SCREW YOU OVER, TOTEM AND GEN PLACEMENT WILL SCREW YOU OVER!
You know it can happen and you're most likely expecting it to happen very frequently because the game's design and philosophy is poor but you're also judging THE PLAYERS SKILL to notice and take advantage of that but even if the other side is just BAD it doesn't mean you don't have reasons to not wanting to play this match.
And you're still giving me reason, the variables will make you want to DC BECAUSE THE VARIABLES ARE UNFAIR, THE GAME IS UNFAIR! We have enough Maps to where we don't need RNG, we can make fun Maps and let players learn the map and know how to play it instead of going: "oh no i got this here and that but if only i had this instead..."
"A tiny handful of times, either because the killer sucked, or we played out of our minds".
MOST KILLERS ABSOLUTLY SUCK. There's a very very very VERY small percentage of players that are GOOD KILLERS, by good killers i mean they are capable of playing every killer at a high level of understanding. And most of the streamers you watch are not it, not accusing anyone, just pointing out obvious facts, it's normal for the large majority of the player base to not be GOOD, that's all i'm saying. And i'm also saying the statistics prove this. IT's clear there's more Console players, it's clear there's more Casual players, IT'S NORMAL, otherwise there's no reason to explain why Sadako, even tho shes definetly better than D or C tier, is doing so well. She's doing well because A shes better than most people think, B she's affordable to play on all platforms, C she's a very rare killer in matches and most people don't expect her and D the ones that are playing Sadako are better than the normal CASUAL LEVEL. The 4 people that i know that play Sadako regularly are really good at playing her and at playing the game, i won't be wrong to think that most of her outstanding stats are influenced by these 4 people. IT makes sense, good results on a small sample will indicate high percentages of success.
Regarding the general population of DBD it's the exact same BS as in CoD Youtubers, there's such a gigantic number of CoD cheaters and FAKE good players. NADIA MUCH!? That dumb girl got exposed in MW2 Event and just like her, there's manny more. And the exact same stuff happens in DbD but DbD has a very small player base so the chances of it happening are smaller but yet there's 8x more banned people according to BHVR than there is active STEAM PLAYERS for example. So there's alot of freaking CHEATERS in DbD even for a small player base. And no the player base outside of STEAM isn't that much bigger than STEAM, obviously Playstation will have more players but not by much. The difficulty i have in finding Playstation only lobbies forced me to just make the shift to STEAM.
SO i'M RIGHT! YOU CAN WIN BUT MOST PEOPLE JUST GIVE UP. Exactly like OhTofu was complaining about.
The fact someone gives up doesnt ruin your chances to win as a SURVIVOR, it's 1v1v1v1v1, you can win alone.
YOU HAVE THE INTRO MOVIE WHERE 2 SURVIVORS SAY F U TO SOMEONE WHO GOT HOOKED AND JUST CONTINUE WORKING ON THE GEN! That's your proof that this game is SELFISH AF BUT ALSO THAT YOU DON'T NEED OTHERS IN ORDER TO WIN.
The variables will ruin your match BUT FOR SURVIVORS A DC DOES NOT RUIN YOUR MATCH BECAUSE IT'S NOT A 4V1 GAME BUT A 1V1V1V1V1 GAME WHERE YOUR WIN CONDITION IS YOUR ESCAPE NOT THE TEAM. They can DC all day and if you escape you'll just laugh at them and you'll laugh at killer cause you won the 1v1....
If the killer DC's you WIN, if a team mate DC's you can still WIN so a DC does not mean an automatic loss. WILL IT BE HARDER to do the normal objective!? Yeah obviously it will but all the variants can still work in your favor instead of being in the killers favor.
Maps are harder for killer or Survivor?
Perks are more advantageous for killer or Survivor?
How a Survivor TREATS A DC IS LAUGHABLE when their ability to win remains exactly the same. IN FACT YOU DO REMEMBER DC FOR HATCH EXISTING RIGHT!?
Answer me on this if you can, does Low Profile activate if 3 survivors DC? IF yes then there you go EASY ESCAPE. You make no Sound, NO scratchmarks, how will the killer find you? He needs to find hatch first and then you still got 90 seconds to see if you can get a key or open a gate.
How can you have the gall to say a Survivor DC'ing RUINS A MATCH!? IT makes it easier to get HATCH and you can still have the third Survivor kill themselves or DC to give you HATCH!
YOU'RE BENEFITTING FROM ME DC'ing so you get HATCH! Will YOU COMPLAIN ABOUT ME DC'ing? Well according to you you SHOULD BE COMPLAINING!
OH but it's the end of the match it doesn't matter... Yes it does matter a DC is a DC! SO if you say end of match doesnt matter than you're proving me right when i say DC's only ruin a match because you lose the numbers advantage, so when the going gets tough DC's are bad but when you benefit from it then well it's alright it was the end of the match...
DOUBLE STANDARD MUCH!?
So please tell me how are DC penalties justified? MY ABILITY TO SURVIVE DOESN'T REQUIRE YOU OR ANYONE ELSE! MY ABILITY TO WIN AS KILLER RELIES ON EVERYTHING GOING RIGHT FOR ME.
At this rate you're gonna be banning tons of players from matchmaking, and you're ruinning the game still because of longer queues, worse match making parameters, more UNFAIR matches and more PLAYERS WILLING TO DC.
And Cheaters don't DC they force you to stay there for 2 hours or you choose to DC. SO DC penalties don't apply to cheaters at all, only to normal players. SO not letting players DC is only empowering cheaters, more people will suffer because they're either stuck there or they DC and can't play.
SO tell me exactly so is DC penalties benefitting here!? It's riddiculous that they are active when they don't benefit anyone. DC bans don't hurt cheaters, DC bans hurt matchmaking, DC bans apply wether or not you have a reason to DC, everyone gets punished when theres manny reasons to justify a DC.
YOU EVEN HAVE THE SERVERS GIVE YOU AN ERROR MESSAGE AFTER MATCHES HAVE ENDED. THE GAME ISN'T WORKING PROPERLY.
Remember Last Year when RE Chapter 1 came out!? THE GAME WAS UNPLAYABLE. SO yet again more proof the game itself is the reason alot of people DC. Shoul i be punished for the game barely working? ACCORDING TO MOST OF YOU PEOPLE YES I SHOULD BE PUNISHED WITH DC BANS BECAUSE THE GAME DOESN'T WORK.
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@Bardon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3235121#Comment_3235121
The massive irony of you claiming that those upset by team-mates DC'ing are "entitled" while defending DC'ing because you don't like the particular killer/map/etc is hilarious. Thanks for the laugh, I needed it today.
I'm simply saying a DC doesn't ruin a match and if you think so then yes it is entitlement because you're only thinking you can only win if the advantage in numbers is benefitting you and DC's are justified because there's plenty of reasons a DC can happen, most of which come from very bad game design options. So when the reason to Dc comes from bad game design then why should players be punished for that? mMakes no sense
Nobody enjoys playing Garden of Joy, it's a bad Map. If someone were to DC because they don't want to play Garden of Joy i won't be mad about it, i'd DC too if i wouldn't be banned from finding a new match. That person decided the DC penalty was worth it for them.
I'm not gonna get dealth a ######### sandwich and eat just because... Map design needs to be better and this isn't even an opinion it's a fact!
Like i said, people who don't DC are not DC'ing because the game is fine they are not DC'ing because it will be even worse for them.
DC penalties are not good, they're a ######### sandwich that you either eat a penalty or you eat a ######### match.
All DC penalties do is Punish whoever doesn't agree with what they got WITHOUT THE REASON FOR THE DISAGREEMENT EVEN MATTERING or ACCIDENTAL DC's MATTERING EITHER: You get punished wether it's your choice or not.
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The only reason you people think 3v1 is killer sided is because you GIVE UP AUTOMATICALLY. How is a 3v1 different from everyone DC'ing? You're all giving up...IF you all decide ok match is over than DC'ing is faster than killer slugging or hooking everyone. But you can't DC cause the penalty even tho you all decided the match wasn't worth it...
If you understand that 1 guy can loop the killer while others do gens as a 4v1 then the same still applies as a 3v1 therefore a 3v1 is still winnable for survivors wether there's a DC, early kill or an AFK.
The fact you consider 3v1 killer sided is because YOU GIVE UP! You're being entitled. It means you can only win when the odds are absolutly stacked in your favor. you're saying that 3v1 is only acceptable if the conditions to win already benefit you, so if the number of gens is lower than the number of survivors alive then you feel comfortable that you can spread or loop the killer while others do gens.
And this happens because it's a CASUAL GAME MADE FOR CASUAL PLAYERS with a 1v1v1v1v1 mindset instead of an actual Team vs Killer mentality!
If in a SWF killing 1 guy doesn't matter much because it's still a SWF then how does that differ from when it's SoloQ? The ONLY ANSWER is because the skill level differs massively in SoloQ, which means Matchmaking is BAD! So the reason 3v1 SoloQ is BAD and "ruins matches" is because the match WASN'T BALANCED TO BEGIN WITH! So the DC is justifiable or you just endure the frustration of this match and HOPE THE NEXT ONE IS BETTER! But you're still in SOLOQ with THE SAME MATCHMAKING! So chances you get another match that is UNBALANCED IS THE EXACT SAME EVERYTIME!
Then you ask me, what does it matter if we try to play the game but still end up dead? And i tell you isn't that the exact same posibility as it was when it was 4v1? SO WHAT CHANGED!? NOTHING! YOU JUST GIVE UP WHEN IT'S 3v1!
BUT you won't give up if there's only 1 or 2 gens left right!? SO whats different!? Nothing besides your Entitlement...Because you think it will be easier to do just 1 or 2 gens as a 3v1 when it actually depends on where those gens are located and it still depends on who you are playing with. IF you're playing with Potatoes then those gens might never get done, if you're in a 3 gen those gens might never get done. IF you're in a 3 gen but with good survivors there's a decent chance you can finish the gens even if someone else dies, then a 2v1 still guarantees 1 escape, the time it takes for killer to chase, pick and go hook someone is more than enough to open Gate and escape, so even if in the end only 1 survives that's still a better outcome then all 3 giving up. but you didn't give up because the objective was pretty close.
So wether the 3 still finish the match or give up is based entirely on wether or not they see themselves easily finish the gens and guarantee as manny escapes as possible. That is so clearly Entitlement.
So my Conclusion in all of this is DC's are absolutly fine and will not impact a match that much. The game is made for Casual players and the majority of players are Casual, there's plenty of evidence to support this, so a DC alone is not a deciding factor on wether or not amatch is won or lost. THe fact people give up just speaks ENTITLEMENT and not that the match can't be played. DC penalties are justified when the game is presenting players with so manny issues and reasons to justfiy a DC and the matchmaking which is already SLOW and BAD just gets even SLOWER and WORSE because it will just make another Unbalanced match because people are locked away from matchmaking.
Easy solution for keeping DC penalty existing tho: Don't punish people on the first and second DC's: see if there's a reoccurent pattern first then start applying the penalties. And You might even start with a higher first penalty, instead of 5 minutes it can be 10 or 15 directly.
This way you keep the penalty but there's room for understanding what's the behaviour the player is having. If someone DC's once but then spends hours playing without dC'ing then you can safely say ok this guy isn't Dc'ing frequently so he doesn't need to be punished immediatly, so if by the end of the day this players doesnt DC anymore you can even have the DC counter reset but if the player keeps DC'ing then you know it's a repeating pattern and you can start applying the penalties. The player then has a choice, either put the game aside and avoid further potential punishes if the behaviour doesn't change or just keep racking up longer penalties.
Either way you're still locking people out ot matchmaking and making it SLOWER and UNBALANCED and the game still offers plenty of reasons to not play it or DC.
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DC penalties in a CASUAL GAME, which the statistics support as BEING A CASUAL GAME ( the fact Nurse has a lower pick rate and kill rate at Top MMR supports the Casual evidence as much as it supports that Console is the prefered way to play DbD, if the statistics were PC only or by Platform then you're getting a very different % in the statistics), make no sense! The Matchmaking is already not very functional (mostly because of MMR existing), you're already wasting plenty of time on queues especially as killer so further penalizing killers by not being able to quickly bounce back into a game but instead stay there locked for X amount of time just rewinding the reason they've DC'ed over and over will just make even less Killers be playing the game.
It's a goddamn 4v1 game not a 1v1v1v1v1 game! But you build this game as 1v1v1v1v1 game. So much so that Survivors can sandbag eachother for no absolute reason. IF the killer DC's survivors win anyway. If a Survivor DC's the killer can still lose.
No match is ruinned by a Survivor DC. Whoever supports this erroneous theory is wrong. If you think 3 survivors can't win a match then you've never faced good survivors and you're not a good survivor either.
The Maps are so absolutly terrible in design that 1 simple chase taking slightly longer than it should will give survivors the oppening to heal or finish a gen that can break a 3gen for example and dismantle the whole killer gameplan. Sheer Map area can be enough that survivors finish far off gens while killer has to go back and forth. Why? Because the REGRESSION TO PROGRESSION Ratio of Gens is Massively in favor of Survivors. Wich why Killers USE $ REGRESSION PERKS BUILDS because "normal" perssure holds 0 value.
1 Survivor can do 5 gens while 3 guys are running laps around the killer. Where's the 1v1 aspect here? It's not. it's the 4v1 aspect that matters.
And treating it as 4v1 would be fairer even for Survivors, it would make SoloQ much better because if the game was a 4v1 then the scoring system would have to reflect that aswell and people who play as a team more than being a selfish player would both benefit the team the most and be benefitted from the system the most because the system would accuratly account for your contributions.
So how does all this affect the DC penalty? IT's rather easy. First of all like i said and the stats support me, it's a CASUAL GAME, secondly, DC penalties are more harmful for killers and Matchmaking than it is for Survivors. Thirdly the game's design Forces killers to play in a way that makes survivors want to DC but killers barely have an option here, it's either play as an ######### and piss alot of other players off or try to play as "intended" and you're still gonna piss off some survivors but you're gonna get frustrated cause the reality of the situation is that you can't get much positive results by playing as "intended". Can you win by playing as "intended" you can but it won't happen often, and you're gonna stress yourself so much that you'll most likely feel like DC'ing yourself very often but if you do then you're getting punished alot more than the other side is.
I'm not and i don't want to make this an Us vs Them thing because i simply want the game to be better and DC penalties don't make the game better, it's a PLACEBO that makes you think it does.
DC Penalties is like old DS, it exists and there's a massive penalty. DS was strong because Survivors could do whatever and still be protected and should a killer not fear it then they are punished when the reason for DS existing might not even be valid cause you didnt need to tunnel anyone to get hit by DS and DC Penalties is the same, wether you like a match or not you're forced into playing it or you're not being able to play at all for whatever time.
People don't DC because they are enjoying matches more, they don't DC because the DC penalties exists and prevent them from enjoying another match so they either kill themselves or go AFK which is the exact same result as DC'ing, you're not participating but it ends up being worse because you're effectively there, your crows will actively annoy and screw the game for everyone else which is a whole lot worse of just not being there. For a killer, having a stupid notification going off every few seconds is very detrimental, you might miss a legit notification, you might miss footstep or breathing audio and it will screw a chase, it will screw your pressure and again you can definetly lose a 3v1 match.
Make different notifications for different actions. The Loud Bubbles have been used since always for everything. Different types of notifications would give all players easy access into whats going on. Oh i heard this notification then this means this specific thing is happening there!
Are DC's justified? Yes they are because there's plenty of things to not like in DbD, Map RNG, lack of skilled players and how bad the Matchmaking is, the MMR system that doesn't reflect skill at all and just has everyone above 1600 MMR be considered Top MMR when anyone at 1600 MMR is comparable to anyone who has infinite MMR because thats the same BRACKET, the fact that there's constant cheating, the fact that there's constant bugs, the fact that theres a complete disregard towards Balance, the fact that the game thinks survivors should be able to win by themselves instead of having to be a Team. Then you have the poor game Optimization like lack of graphical options, lack of quality of Life options, lack of Security, the existence of end game chat, not being able to say gg is a small price to pay to avoid all the potential toxicity.
And then above all of this there's play satisfaction, if a player is not satisfied then he has legitimacy to want to abandon the game.
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Cheating is only hard to identify if you don't play games frequently. Cheating is very easy to identify, the hard part is to know exactly WHO and How they are doing it.
There's very clear indication of cheating and it is running rampant.
Take Warzone as an example. I can guarantee you that more than 50% of the so called good Warzone players are all cheating in some form way or shape.
They go into Bot lobbies, they using Cronus, Wallhacks, No recoil, extra speed, extra HP, etc,etc,etc. It's really goddamn obvious who cheats and doesnt cheat in Warzone as it is obvious that there's a huge cheating "community" in DbD. In Warzone it's easy because it's only you that matters, it's only your input that benefits you while in DbD you can hide and do 0 for the whole match and escape because the other 3 did everything for you...How will a killer play against this!? There's somebody he can't find and then 3 guys are doing everything. All this to say that anyone can be cheating and nobody will know who it is unless it's something super obvious that everyone can see.
I have plenty of examples of survivors backing me up when i call someone a cheater because they've seen things happen that should not happen. My last match had a guy knowing where i was ll the time and i was playing a stealth killer, how would someone always know where i was and point at my direction for other survivors to know unless that guy was cheating? And the rest of survivors backed me up on it, the guy always knew where i was cause they'd see him point at my direction and run away before anyone else, everytime i tried chasing him he'd always move faster than he should.
Think about it. What matters in DbD? Kills and Escapes. Nothing you do matters unless you get a kill or escape. Got 8 hooks but 0 kills? Doesn't matter you suck. Did 5 gens looped for 10 hours and got 120 rescues but did not escape? You suck!
When the only metric that matters is wether you survive or die then people will do whatever to get their results. When the "Top MMR" means you're simply above 1600 MMR, which 90% of the players will be because it's easy AF + Cheaters, then you're putting everyone, cheaters and non cheaters in the same category because getting 1600 MMR is easy AF and past 1600 everyone is sweating because only way to imrpove is to just get kills or escape so people will cheat.
Imagine the Sentence for stealing food and sex crimes is the same and it is a low sentence. Wouldn't sex crime rates sky rocket? Yes they would, if the penalty is that low yes it would.
Imagine that stealing was punished with death penalty, would the steal rate drop? Yes it would because the sentence got upgraded to losing your life so people will be more hesitant to steal cause if they're caught they ain't getting out of it.
How easily or harshly you get punished for something has a big part in playing on wether or not you'll do it. DbD has a very big security fail so not only is it easy to cheat there's also very little penalty for it.
IF cheaters weren't so common then why would BHVR announce they've banned 200.000 cheaters already? That's more cheaters than full player community on STEAM has ever been. And they've announced they've banned 2.000 players in 7 days back in September so clearly cheaters are running rampant.
DbD's population is really low, yes it has increased because of the Event but that's just a spike, most of those players won't stay here. We just had the Annyversary event not long ago and then the numbers went down to between 30k to 40k players on STEAM so you can imagine the same happens on other platforms. So even if Xbox and PS had the same numbers as STEAM, which i don't think they will, you're looking at max 120k players on average on these 3 platforms and that's on peak hours. The reason i say this because DbD is obviously a much more playable game on PC, so STEAM or WINDOWS OR EPIC will be prefered. Which naturally just boosts the chances of there being cheaters because it will be easier to cheat on PC.