kyogul
kyogul
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I feel your struggle on this map. I struggle on it as well, especially as demo. Honestly other than a 3 gen, if the survivors are competent, you're not really going to win on this map with most killers. Depending on the map RNG the map can be bare to decent to well stocked in terms of pallets/resources/loops, so how difficult Sheltered Woods is varies but at its base it still can be really difficult for the majority of killers. The only exception I'd say is Blight/Nurse/a few others, because the map is so open that trying to break LOS is not really possible and they can shut down looping really fast.
My biggest advice is to just try to 3 gen and play around basement if you can.
Also another tip, try hooking in dead zones as well and proxy camping if you need to. Sometimes hooking in dead zones is better than in basement because there are no nearby resources and it's easy hits. Even shack without a pallet is still decent compared to a dead zone or with just one unsafe pallet.
Most of these tips also apply to other big maps like Mother's Dwelling, to some extent Temple of Purgation
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@BenZ0 said:
There is but and it is even a bigger problem then Spirit, but survivor mains ofc dont care about that :)
Be careful now, not advocating for the preservation for the tonnes of strong crutch perks survivors have is going to get you put in the rubbish bin by this community
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@Jigsaw_pprentice1993 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2492199#Comment_2492199
The shards are so unnoticable u would basically have to be on top of her to notice it
and if she is that close why would she phase she can simply smack u
spirits power is good without add ons but ubfortunate spirit her add ons all of em are strong making her power oppressive plus all spirits bring ruin undying sloppy and a information perk thats why people dislike her
That still has nothing to do with the unnecessary buff to Iron Will. People want to talk about stand still mind games being problematic but want to defend E to outplay or free invisibility with Iron Will for no effort. Problems presented in this community tend to not get much backlash when it's talking about problems with killers but it takes struggling to call attention to things that are problematic on survivor's side.
@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2492188#Comment_2492188
This game's comp scene is a joke and you shouldn't use it as an example of what you should balance around.
It should be balanced around good players, yes, just not the tournament squads who represent an abnormal amount of coordination and skill.
Then why is everyone at MMR basically copying what comp players do? If your mmr is even moderately high people are playing pubs as if they're scrim games.
The good players play like comp players, hence the comparison. Comp does to the best of its abilities to utilise the best techniques and strategies. Why on earth would good solo players not do the same? They can be used in both comp and pubs and it's very observable how they're used in pubs nowadays.
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@GannTM said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2490647#Comment_2490647
Thank you. It certainly needs some kind of downside because the effect it has is too powerful to warrant not having one.
The game's design as well as the community is survivor-sided. You are never going to have a decent argument here about why Iron Will is problematic because of this.
90% sure it's coming from survivor mains because the whole 'you can see blood so iron will has a counter' bullshite is just an example of that. That's literally an analogous comparison to survivors being able to see Spirit's animation reset when her phasing begins, which always happens regardless of seeing shards or the outfit she's wearing. Comp players do it all the time and they do it with almost perfect accuracy. But you're going to get downtrodden before the majority of the community here admits that there are also many things broken on the survivor's end as well due to them wanting to be handhheld constantly.
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@Marigoria said:
Iron will is fine. You can counter it be seeing blood and scratch marks on the ground.
You can also counter spirit by walking instead of running, but if she doesnt see scratch marks she will know you're walking so you havent gone very far.
Can we stop with posts about "op" perks? In some years there will be nothing worth running if things keep being nerfed.
Except you can counter Spirit by knowing when she's phasing. Comp players do it all the time. So why give survivors more hand-holding changes and give them an uncounterable perk?
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i don't see how deadlock supplements pop when talking about corrupt combinations
If anything, Corrupt and Lethal Pursuer should be what ruin undying are compared to as they very much guarantee good starts.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2482222#Comment_2482222
You're obviously not listening or not understanding but I'll try again.
You're the one who completely misunderstood a fairly straightforward point about 1 totem not taking too long to cleanse nor being team reliant as somehow meaning all 5. I understand that finding all 5 totems in solo que can be difficult, which is why I said to find 1 totem on your own multiple times as I have been doing in my own games.
"so your condescension is both folly and laughable. 6/10 for the effort though because it's very obvious you thought you had a clapback moment there."
Ironically this is how you're acting. I've been addressing your points, I'm not the one going out of my way to make comments such as "Yea I can very easily tell you don't have much experience with totem spawns" and "I know you're trying hard to act like a totem master", not only were/are these incorrect but you also are using them as an absolute that you somehow apparently know. Reading back my replies, unless I missed something I was using statements that are not absolutes nor acting like I somehow absolutely know something about you. Then we have "which isn't surprising considering the quality of your arguments." I believe that one should be obvious enough. These seem like pretty clear attempts at slander. Moving on...
Values from the perk is pressure, or I guess in your words the "chaos" it gives. So if that's your problem yes your issue is with the killer getting value out the perk. If the perk isn't applying pressure or helping you apply pressure, than what's the point of using it? You're not a detriment for getting rid of the thing that is applying pressure to the entire team, that's a foolish stance.
In solo que, yeah teams can be bad. That's not a problem of the perk, that's a teammate problem. Otherwise I guess we better nerf literally everything because bad teams will struggle against literally everything. We shouldn't balance nor judge balance based on bad teams, that's dumb, as I hope you can agree. Teams can also be good if the right players come together.
I play solo que, I know there can be bad teams, that doesn't stop me from cleansing NoED in most cases. So what exactly is stopping you but not me?
Also don't we already have a fix to bad teams with SBMM?
We're talking about NoED, not the quality of your teammates, NoED. You can counter it by yourself. You choosing not to is your decision.
If you can't escape because you're babysitting your team, then don't. Also, breaking the totem will help everyone. If they die by then that's on them.
"There are almost always games where I come across totems and I may manage to do one and I see others but I can't do it at the moment (or even later)"
I said this in an earlier response: "Why are you still talking about doing all 5 when we specifically mentioned just doing 1 at the end which is easier, not team reliant, and doesn't take "too much time"?"
Once again, you're not listening or failing to comprehend. I have laid out in plain English we are talking about breaking 1 totem. You can manage to do one? Great. Make that 1 the hex totem.
Its too much to get all 5 totems, ok, break the 1 totem at the end. This is not a problem in solo que since you can break 1 totem on your own, you don't need your team to break 1 totem. Saying breaking 1 totem takes too much time is asinine.
"I'm not occupying a perk slot of mine in compensation for incompetence of other people"
Then don't. Those perks aren't there for your teammates they're there for you. If you can find the totem on your own without the perks, then do it. You'll be a better help to your team breaking the NoED than trying to babysit. If its taking too long, then you don't know the spots well enough and should use the tools available. You don't know the indoor spawns? Then learn them or take the tools just in case you get one. Otherwise accept that you may get unlucky and get a map you don't know that well.
If you're choosing to not use the solutions to the problem that are available, that's a you problem not a perk problem.
You missed my point where I said your "one totem strategy" is absolutely terrible for solo queue and would only make sense in a SWF. Why is it bad for solo queue? Because you're allowing NO Ed to have value and even a minute worth of NO Ed value can absolutely wreck a game and your teammates and also you as well. This has nothing to do with it being a bad thing for the killer getting value out of the perk, it has to do with you as a survivor obviously not wanting the killer to get value out of it as it's a very strong end game perk in droves of situations. Presuming all five totems are up, even if you know where all five of them are, you have to spot check each of the five spawns to see which is NO Ed, meaning a 1/5 chance of getting it right the first time. Especially if the realm has multiple stories and/or is large in size, you're giving NO Ed significantly more value than it otherwise could've have (which is none) if all five totems were cleansed, hence why that is the strategy for solo queue especially. You should not strive to allow No ed to be active if you can help it. It really is that simple of a point and if that's lost on you then that's a personal problem. Your strategy is acting on the premise as if you know exactly which of the five totems is the hex and the reality is that you don't and you have a 1/5 chance of guessing correctly the first time. Each subsequent time is wasting time and you can very easily check 2 out of 5 totems and not find the hex. You also don't seem to be accounting for the time spent looking for said totems and how long it can take traversing some maps as well. This wouldn't be a bad strategy if solo queue had reliable teammates but...solo queue tings.
That wasn't me being condescending, that was an accurate read which you admitted you aren't knowledgeable enough in totem spawns to not use a perk to find them. It's not really meant to be an insult as a majority of players I'd reckon aren't knowledgeable enough in that area. I doubt most people even know that totems spawn in a hex-esque pattern across the map too. The only reason I would use a totem perk is to do totems fast and at that point I'd just bring a map.
My entire complaint about totems has nothing to do really with the perk (no ed) itself, it has to do with teammate quality. I often have the most pepega teammates and I have to babysit them for every little thing as they do almost everything wrong. They never identify where basement is at the beginning of a game (especially against certain killers i.e. trapper/hag) and avoid getting downed near basement to avoid giving killer pressure, they don't know how to not 3 gen, they sit on gens instead of saving other teammates, they run into other teammates constantly when getting chased. The list goes on and on and they are extremely disruptive in the game. How am I supposed to just leisurely roam around the map and cleanse totems as if it's not that big of a deal when I have to play caretaker? The reality is is that I can't. Letting them do whatever and just trying my best on my own gives a worse outcome. I've tried both. I don't enjoy playing babysitter nor want to do it, but that's the reality of non-Sbmm solo queue. I haven't played since the patch so I have no idea if SBMM is effective or not.
All in all, the only thing in regards to totems I care about the devs adding is a counter for all survivors. I have no idea why they locked that behind a perk when it should be a feature given to all survivors.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2479047#Comment_2479047
How dare the killer get use out of their perk when the survivors didn't do what they needed to stop it.
I don't think its dumb or unrealistic in solo que since I do it just fine in solo que myself.
Like I said I run small game normally, not always but usually. I'm not acting like a "totem master" otherwise I wouldn't be using a perk to help out. Sounds to me like you just don't know totem spots well enough so you should use a perk or bring a map sir/madame, that's what they're intended for. I don't want to memorize every map, so I just use the perk. I know some maps totem spawns fairly well, but not enough to go in blind, hence me using the perk.
"I shouldn't have to dedicate a perk slot" Why not? A perk for a perk is more than fair considering your team has 16.
You're missing the point again, which isn't surprising considering the quality of your arguments.
The complaints from me at least isn't from the killer getting value, it's obviously how strong NO ED is in the end game and how chaotic it is to get it done in solo queue without being a detriment. Several people have explained in the most simple english so far that if you don't understand then it's merely a comprehension problem and that's on you.
Other than on indoor maps like RPD/Léry's/Midwich, I know totem spawns very well, it's just that I almost always don't have the time to look around for totems since I have to babysit teammates. There are almost always games where I come across totems and I may manage to do one and I see others but I can't do it at the moment (or even later) because I have to go be caretaker to Steve who went down in basement against a Hag, or Feng who wants to be a wannabe Ayrun and try to get a flashlight save injured but just goes does and gives the killer extra pressure, etc. I'm not the one who has to use totem perks to find totems so your condescension is both folly and laughable. 6/10 for the effort though because it's very obvious you thought you had a clapback moment there.
Solo queue isn't 1v4, it's 1v1v1v1v1. I'm not occupying a perk slot of mine in compensation for incompetence of other people unless I'm truly working in a team which is in a SWF and the only time survivor is 1v4, hence why I also don't run Borrowed Time and We'll Make It in solo queue almost ever because ######### that. The most I'm running is Bond so I don't run into teammates when in chase and to monitor babies when I coincidentally pass by them but that's it.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2476732#Comment_2476732
"I really don't know what you're trying to be sarcastic for"
Did you even read what they replied to (that I wrote)?
"Everyone is so focused on doing all 5 totems, they seem to forget you can just break the 1 totem when its active just like every other hex.
I hope we don't hear breaking 1 totem takes "too much time"."
Literally the first line they wrote: "Breaking one totem takes too much time because..."
The sarcasm is a reply to me saying "I hope we don't hear breaking 1 totem takes "too much time"."
Problems 1, 2, and 3 you just outlined are all about teammates and (I believe) doing all 5 totems. You don't need teammates to break 1 totem. Also as I just said:
"Everyone is so focused on doing all 5 totems, they seem to forget you can just break the 1 totem when its active just like every other hex."
1) ok, don't waste time on all 5, do the 1 at the end. Remember any totems you see for later just in case.
2)"Issue isn't not knowing the spawns" if your problem is you can't find the totems, yes that is the issue. Its harder on indoor maps but that just means you have to be better at knowing where they are. Or you know, map/perks of which you have multiple options (my personal choice being small game, but I hear detectives hunch is good too).
3) see 1.
Why are you still talking about doing all 5 when we specifically mentioned just doing 1 at the end which is easier, not team reliant, and doesn't take "too much time"? Its just like finding every other hex. Unless now we're going to say all hexes take "too much time".
"Everyone is so focused on doing all 5 totems, they seem to forget you can just break the 1 totem when its active just like every other hex.
That is a horrendous strategy for solo queue and only works for SWF. Presuming NO ED is active by that time, could you theoretically just wait until it happens and then go look for the hex and break it? Yes but you're allowing for NO ED the time to get its pressure. Before the last gen procs, you could have ran around the entire map and saw all five totems and know where they are and you're still wasting time checking all five locations and giving NO ED significant time to pressure your teammates.
And also good luck trying to do that on the several maps where totems can have hoards of spawns, i.e. léry's, midwich, RPD, and to a lesser extent but still very difficult extent several other realms.
This is extremely terrible advice especially for large maps. Try doing that on a map like Mother's Dwelling, even if you managed to come across all five totems during your play on the map, and see how much value NO ED gets unless you just coincidentally find it on your first try. The reality is that you're probably not going to come across all five locations during your time on the map if you're not deliberately looking for them and thus wasting time at the end trying to find NO ED.
The sarcasm is a reply to me saying "I hope we don't hear breaking 1 totem takes "too much time"."
I'm aware of what your sarcasm was towards and it was both dumb and unrealistic for solo queue. Maybe a different story for a person with mid to high MMR, we'll see, but this is about non-MMR solo queue. I also interpreted that phrase as not specifically about breaking one totem and never doing one again but simply talking about how long it takes to do a totem, and extrapolating that to doing multiple and up to five as one survivor. That's just my take though.
2)"Issue isn't not knowing the spawns" if your problem is you can't find the totems, yes that is the issue. Its harder on indoor maps but that just means you have to be better at knowing where they are. Or you know, map/perks of which you have multiple options (my personal choice being small game, but I hear detectives hunch is good too).
Yea I can very easily tell you don't have much experience with totem spawns if you're saying this tripe even on maps like Léry's and Midwich, which that comment was targeted at (including RPD which arguably is harder due to its size).
Some of these maps have close to four dozen spawns and the issue isn't only the number but the size of the maps (or the layout, and something like Léry's where all the rooms look the same is confusing as hell). That means you have almost a 1/50 chance of guessing correctly and you have to do that five times, even if you just try to look for the totem at the end.
I know you're trying hard to act like a totem master but stop, it's not working, along with your condenscenion as well which is extremely boring. Yes maps and detective's hunch (which is alright, not really great) are fine but it shouldn't be one person's responsibility to do something that's a group effort. And trying to bring in a map every game is unrealistic and I shouldn't have to dedicate a perk slot to make up for teammate's incompetence of trying to find and do totems.
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@ThiccBudhha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2476732#Comment_2476732
I run small game (which comes with a counter) so I can usually find them without any difficulty. Sometimes on those maps with 2 floors though? Yeah, sus. I will admit.
Do you not see the problem of one person having the burden of doing something that should be a group effort? It would be ok if it was a SWF and there was some designated coordination i.e. totem guy, one or two people who have BT to unhook, another who dedicates to pressuring gens. There is no such coordination in solo queue.
Many games are too chaotic to just be going around doing totems when teammates are often too incompetent to allow for that and it's better to pressure gens instead.
No one is complaining about one totem being too much to do. It's the fact that it's often too much of a burden to try to all totems every game and pressure gens, do well in chase, on top of many times having to babysit your teammates because they do stupid stuff like do generators like 3 gen you and etc and so on that will ruin the game if you let them do it, and much more.
I don't go out of my way to babysit survivors. I just react to what I see on bond and the amount of dumb stuff I see teammates do is astounding, and it happens almost every game and I have to correct their mistakes almost always.
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@ThiccBudhha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2476686#Comment_2476686
Breaking one totem takes too much time because once they get stabbed, they are instantly down. It is already too late, Penguin! And you aren't accounting for how long it takes to find. The 3 of us searched for a whole 2 minutes while the poor victim was sitting on hook. How is that acceptable to you? He DIED. D-E-A-D. Game over, man. And then while I was bagging at the exit gate, he got me too. It is so broken and he wouldn't have gotten even one kill if it wasn't for No Skill ED. Word up, homie.
I really don't know what you're trying to be sarcastic for as if you'd do any better than the lot of people here complaining in terms of finding totems.
No one's complaining about the act of doing totems. There is one main issue with several sub problems and it all starts with teammates.
1) You never know how many totems your team cleanses. You as a survivor cleanse three totems. Did your teammates cleanse the other two? Who knows unless you spot check all five totem spawns, wasting time.
2) Some maps it's extremely common to never come across a totem i.e. Léry's due to how well hidden they are and subsequently, how much more time you'll waste finding them. Issue isn't not knowing the spawns, it's that on some maps it's too many spawns.
3) Kind of a paraphrasing of #1, but teammates are almost always unreliable in solo queue. You cannot do anything in solo queue without babysitting your teammates and that includes having to spot check did they cleanse all totems or wait for the magical NO ED to potentially appear. Because of how chaotic games are due to matchmaking you can't just say "cleanse bones" when there's almost always too much going on to just sit and waste time to look around for multiple totems. Some games are like that, most games aren't. Unless you want to be a detriment to your team.
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@Damarus said:
We're getting to 2022 in a couple months and the "do bones" catchphrase is still a thing? People RIGHTFULLY complain about a perk such as that one because it is broken in what it does, not in HOW it does it. Can't believe I still have to go through this, but here we are:
First and foremost, cleansing totems takes away 14 seconds each, assuming you didn't bring in Counterforce. Which is, you know, a perk slot for the chance of a (bad) player having NoeD. But that's fine, I guess. Whatever the case, you will still be using ample time ONLY for totems, which will be fatal to you and your teammates, if they are the usual incompetent randoms you can find out there. If you don't bring in that perk, however, and you don't play in a full SWF, you have no way of knowing how many totems have already been cleansed from someone other than yourself, which means more wasted time. You need to look for totems, cleanse them, try to survive AND hope your teammates do them as well. All of this leaving potential godly hidden spawns and perks like TotH aside. If you don't get to cleanse even a SINGLE dull totem, however, the killer gains a upper hand that he DID NOT deserve. He will now move faster (especially overkill on some already easy picks like Spirit and Billy) and instadown. Rewarding failure, that's what NoeD does. And unless you would like to see a perk that automatically spawns the hatch onto the last survivor, or another perk that gives survivors double the speed boost you get from Sprint Burst if the killer damages two gens, I don't see why we're still talking about the same things over and over and over again.
People will read this and still say "just cleanse bones". Don't bother trying to explain logic to them
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No mate you're supposed to waste several minutes of your time spot checking all totem spawns to make sure that your teammates did totems, all the meanwhile being efficient in game while doing your objectives properly /s
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@Warcrafter4 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2469737#Comment_2469737
He literally needs to get half of the total stalk available(20 out of 40) in the game for perma T3.
He has to fully stock 2 survivors or half stalk from all 4 or fully stack one person and half stalk 2 others.
That is 3 Tier threes worth of stalk to get it online and the game should be long over vs an M1 killer by then.
It would only be over if you ran absolutely no slowdowns and/or you just got a bad map where survivors can break LOS almost always i.e. Léry's/The Game etc.
Most maps have a lot of open areas and so stalking someone isn't hard. I've gone against it, I've done it, it's not hard to do at all on most maps. People are being dramatic about how long it takes.
People also forget he has add ons to increase stalk rate as well.
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@Aurelle said:
I'd put either Shadowborn or STBFL on all of my killers.
stbfl plague let's go
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@FilthyLegionMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2469737#Comment_2469737
Huh. Then why does it take so long until last gen then usually, hm?
It only takes a long time if you accompany it with Tombstone. Otherwise it's a walk in the park and sounds more of like a skill issue if you can't get it activated quickly unless you just got a bad map for it (like what I stated before).
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@Huge_Bush said:
Trapper is better and more OP. He has natural mounds that attract survivors from all over the map. Hag has nothing over him.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/RVFJ699TW4VU/65l41o391at11.jpg
I'm going to get caught in something and it won't be one of Trapper's traps
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@FilthyLegionMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/277085/remove-unlimited-tier-3-for-michael
Have you played Myers before? It takes a while for it to be infinite. You or your teammates fed him stalk.
People really overestimate the amount of time it takes to give him stalk to infinite tier three. It really isn't that long
Please stop acting like survivors need to be out of LOS permanently against Myers when that's unrealistic. They're going to be seen and it's dramatic to pretend that it takes ages to get infinite tier three when it doesn't. Especially putting on slowdowns as Myers makes infinite tier 3 a walk in the park unless it's a map like The Game or Léry's
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I think this is about right. I think people need to realise how awful Spirit can be without add ons. Without Add ons I would sometimes put her in B tier because she can be ass to play.
Blight without add ons is better than Spirit without add ons.
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@Rivyn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2463497#Comment_2463497
Like Spine Chill?
I feel personally attacked by this comment
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@HelloYou said:
Great Build that i personally use when i feel like giving survivors a fun experience in a horror game. I want them to be scared and have a hard time surviving :D.
Killer : The Nurse
Build : Ruin - Undying - Tinkerer - Surveillance
Addons : Double range
Map Offering : The Game - Midwish
And it's players like this that validate my ritual of dcing in loading if I see a killer bring a map offering like this because I know they're going to play like an ass
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@UnluckyDucky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2455874#Comment_2455874
For me survivor is massively easier for several reasons, but the main being I'm usually within the PROPER rank with others, and I don't play solo since a lot of my friends also play. Like when I'm survivor rank 10, my killer is usually 13-9. But every game as killer that I've gotten today I'm a rank 17 killer consistently going up against lvl 9 survivors. My only leveled killer is legion, which is prestiged by mistake and now at lvl 21 i have NO good perks, at least nothing good enough that will help me stand up to 4swf who are all lvl 50 on their chosen characters in ranks below 13.
As a survivor if you're learning a new character or leveling up a new one, its kinda rough playing the game but its not so bad because you usually have 3 others getting your bad. If you wanna learn a new killer the game is an axwound to the face. You get 1 perk, at level 1, no add ons, and the survivors are all likely veteraned.
Playing survivor with friends is a significantly different experience than playing solo queue. There are many benefits to it but one of the most significant is that the quality of life of the gameplay is substantially better than solo queue. Personally for me in solo queue what I dislike is the incompetence of most of my teammates, then the fact that I'm a very mediocre survivor, and then accompanied with the almost-guaranteed losing nature of solo queue. I find getting better at survivor to be substantially more difficult than killer for whatever reason even though it shouldn't be; no amount of guides have really helped all that much and it just doesn't click with my brain.
Like right now I'm suffering in solo queue just trying to grind challenges for the rift as I'm about <20 levels to level 70. The past few games I've had the worst teammates alive and have been left slugged while they either try to rush gens (stupidly so) or hide in corners, accompanied with other upsetting things. That's the only reason why I would willingly play survivor, otherwise I stick to killer because I find solo queue survivor to be that bad.
To put it more into perspective in my 2k hours I've only gotten rank 1 survivor twice, and this is from about almost 1,000 hours into survivor. It took absolutely no effort for me to get rank 1 killer and I the lowest I get is rank 2 basically (barring rank reset).
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@Shaped said:
Don't worry you are going to hate killers too soon enough.
If you switch to survivor that is.
Personally as someone who was initially a survivor main then switched to killer and occasionally plays survivor, 90% of the time I don't get mad at the player of the killer but either the specific killer chosen or more often my teammates.
@Yui_TheBeauty said:
Hey, I used to main killer before I switched survivor, trust me I do not regret switching, survivor is less stressful while killer can be a pain in the ass.
I'm glad that your speaking out on how your feeling because the people who went through the same (Icluding me) can help you, my best advice is take a break for a while and do other things that you enjoy doing. Then when you think that you are ready to return, return then :)
I actually find survivor (solo queue) to be tremendously more difficult and frustrating. I was initially a survivor main because my then-friends who introduced me to DBD only played survivor. When I stopped playing with them (which was almost all the time) I got frustrated with solo queue as I cannot stand incompetence and you see that all the time in solo queue, so I started playing killer. Killer has its frustrating times and you are on the receiving end of hostility many times but I find nothing more infuriating than solo queue survivor. I could never main survivor again unless I played mostly with a SWF because I like coordination with survivor.
The only few times solo queue survivor was tolerable was when I coincidentally got teammates who were my skill level in pub games and that has happened less than ten times in my <2k hours.
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in no order:
STBFL
Enduring
Agitation
Whispers
that's it so far
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Why not just disable end game chat? That's what I did. I don't even say GG. Unless I have a question for a survivor that I want to ask, I keep it disabled 99% of the time and it's made the experience so much better.
As someone else who struggles with mental health do what's best for you but DBD's toxicity is mostly censorable. You don't have to read end game chat if you don't want to, you don't have to go into other people's streams if you don't want to. It's not like FPS games where you have to hear people pretty much at all times in voice chat in order to play at a functional level because the game is centred around comms. DBD is not centred around comms in the slightest.
If you cannot handle DBD's optional toxicity then you will not be able to handle the toxicity in other games like Valorant where it's pretty much unavoidable unless you want to play the game poorly. End game chat, looking at people's streams, and comms are unnecessary in DBD and you can play the game pretty perfectly without it.
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@TacitusKilgore said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2452037#Comment_2452037
no one is properly answering your question because you are ignoring all the answers lol. Get your head out of your ass
I've ignored nothing and I've addressed the problems with the responses and I'm not going to be coy about how the responses are inadequate. You can get hot and bothered and insult me for pointing it out all you want, that's a personal problem for you and not me.
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stbfl or if stbfl is incompatible with a killer, enduring.
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@PoweroSymbols3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/275601/do-you-think-mentality-like-this-is-ok-to-have
Uh...100? I got mine for like...$40, then my friends got it for like $20... that streamer got robbed, lol
He probably meant also taking into account cosmetics and whatever purchased
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I think it's an ok mentality to have, although I don't condone going out of your way to make other people's games miserable for no good reason (which is subjective at the end of the day).
At the end of the day regardless of the role you play but especially as killer or in solo queue survivor, you are on your own and you should prioritise your fun over others. Especially as killer I am under no obligation to play in a way deemed as fun or nice and I can play however I want to in order to have what I consider fun.
It would be nice if people in this community cared about the other side but I have learned very quickly that having empathy in this game doesn't help as no one cares. Everyone's standards are different so no one can please each other so it's best to just watch your own back.
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@FFirebrandd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2451634#Comment_2451634
There's actually a pretty simple thought process when it comes to that build on Blight.
What's the appeal of playing Blight? No this isn't a trick question... why would you play Blight over any other Killer? Speed. Gotta go fast. He's the most consistently fast Killer in the game bar none, so that's what the people playing him want to do. They want to go fast. What they don't want to do is have to stop and kick gens... ever basically. There's basically only 1 regression/slowdown perk that functions on Killers with M2 damaging powers that doesn't require kicking gens that's considered good... and its Ruin. So... if a Blight wants a slow down... the odds are incredibly stacked that they'll be running Ruin because everything else is either not good or conflicts with the entire reason they're playing the Killer.
Once you have Blight running Ruin as his main slowdown... the rest of the build just easily fits into place to support that and patch up what's missing. Undying to help protect Ruin. Tinkerer to get extra value from Ruin. BBQ to know where to go after a hook before Tinkerer goes off.
None of this to any capacity is answering the question I had.
No one including myself is questioning the appeal of ruin undying tinkerer on Blight. No one is questioning why it's considered an optimal build for Blight. No one is questioning why it's popular for Blight players. It's obviously used because it's a strong build. Whether or not ruin undying tinkerer is an optimal build for other killers is besides the question also, but every killer has an optimal build even if it uses different perks.
The question is why do players of Blight use said optimal build to abnormal extents. There is a difference between something being popular and using something to a cultish degree, which is what people are talking about. I do not see players of other killers use optimal builds to the point where 9.5 times out of ten if you go against said killer you see them running minimum the same three perks, like with Blights you encounter in pub games. And the few killers who do (Demo, PH, Twins) have legitimate perk compatibility issues in regards to their power/playstyle in order to win efficiently. Blight has several alternatives that also result in strong builds. Pretty much players of every other killer use variety to a noticeable degree and don't stick to optimal builds. Only Blight players do that.
The question is why are Blight players using optimal builds to abnormal degrees. The question is not why is it popular. If you still do not understand this question I will ask this: Why aren't other players of other killers (who don't have perk compatibility issues) using optimal builds just as often as Blight players do? Why does variety of perk builds exist for every other killer except Blight?
edit: Thought this was in another thread, I'll tweak the tone a bit.
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There's no way that it's not survivor sided. The only question is how survivor sided is it.
- The main building against a lot of killers (particularly M1 killers) is atrocious
- Survivor spawns are hard to guess as they can spawn in multiple corners and often times said corners are on top of gens. Guess incorrectly and you immediately lose at least one generator, probably two, which you likely will guess incorrectly
- Lots of resources everywhere, jungle gyms readily available everywhere. Almost no dead zones in sight
Kind of weird you have people here thinking that it's not survivor sided.
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@calem said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2452238#Comment_2452238
I just don't think it's clicking for you, that build is extremely effective on Blight, and most people get the gen regression perks before other perks. Hence why lots of people use it. Blight does not need other perks to do well because he doesn't necessarily have a weakness.
Take Pig for example, she's weak in chase so a lot of Pigs use Save The Best For Last because it helps strengthen her chase potential which is a weak point. What is the weakness in Blight? As dull as it sounds, it's gens being done. He's strong in chase and has high map pressure and mobility naturally. So all he needs for perks is gen regression. Therefore, you get droves of Blight players using 4 gen regression perks (sometimes one is replaced by BBQ & Chili, but the point is the same).
You can't make the same argument for Nurse because she lacks map pressure. So, because of her insanely strong chase potential, lots of Nurse players try to snowball the game with Infectious. Hence, Infectious being a popular choice for her. Wraith's almost always use Sloppy Butcher because it plays into his strengths of getting hits when survivors aren't ready. People generally don't complain about Infectious or Sloppy because it doesn't stop their gens from getting done, even though they are arguably as strong as gen regression perks on certain killers. That's the main reason people complain about Blight's using 4 gen regressions, because it's directly interfering with their objective.
I also think it just simply comes down to: Blight is extremely fun to play. He really is. Whether you think he's busted OP or not, he is fun to play. Putting on Ruin/Undying/Tinkerer makes it so all you need to do all game is rush, rush, rush. You don't need to worry or stress about popping this gen, wasting time going somewhere, etc. because the build mixed with Blight's kit means you can kind of just autopilot mode and play the game with little worry.
There was no need to get all snarky and condescending in your last sentence, we are answering your questions when we don't need to be, if you don't like our answers, then keep it to yourself :)
I've already stated multiple times the build is effective for Blight, yet you keep explaining it to me like I haven't acknowledged that. You truly don't get the simple question I'm asking and it's quite intriguing since the question is so simple I can explain it to someone who hasn't even played DBD and they would understand it.
You don't understand map pressure. Map pressure is not purely mobility, it's making survivors not do their main objective which is generators. Mobility doesn't mean anything if you can't actually make survivors not do gens which means you have to down them relatively fast. Sure a (bad) Blight can push people off gens easier than a Nurse but that doesn't mean actually anything if he can't down people fast as the killer can chase one survivor and either another teammate gets on the generator the initially-mentioned survivor was knocked off of or they simply do another one. Hooking, slugging, to some map mobility, and then lastly tunnelling (to some extent) is a form of map pressure. There's a reason for example why you almost never see Billy players in tournaments use ruin and undying. Can they knock people off gens faster than a Nurse? Sure but they have no map pressure as they can't get downs fast enough against very good players. It's the same with Freddy, who I'd argue has the best map mobility in the game, particularly since his dream projection doesn't take that long to recover either. He can get from anywhere on the map with a dream projection
Nurse has the best map pressure in the game, hence why she's the best killer. Blight is also one of the best but he still has to interact and is countered by survivor resources (pallets and windows). Nurse ignores all of that. There's no debating that. You don't understand what map pressure is, so stop using that as a reason.
As I said before I have no skin in this game so there's no irritation but I said that last sentence not to be mean but because I genuinely think it's true. My question has been explained in the utmost simple way in multiple ways but yet you are lacking the comprehension of it so severely to the point where you're just not even attempting to answer the prompt in a relevant way because I genuinely think you don't understand it, hence why I said I think you guys are clueless. It's one thing to not know the answer, it's another thing to not understand the question at all.
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@calem said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2452037#Comment_2452037
The collisions are a non-issue, you bounce off most things, and it becomes very obvious what you can/can't bounce off in-game after playing a few Blight matches. You can still extremely easily traverse the entire map.
Nurse's mobility is barely anything compared to Blight. Her blinks go barely anywhere compared to Blight's rushes, and she has fatigue after every blink. I am not acting like Blight is the only mobile killer, I am simply saying ONLY Billy and Blight have enough mobility to keep pressure up with Tinkerer/Ruin/Undying. Nurse doesn't have that kind of map pressure. I say this as someone who has played a lot of Blight and Nurse.
I also want to point out that Nurse's mobility is stronger in chase than Blight, but Blight's mobility is way stronger at map pressure. There's the trade-off between the two. Same goes when comparing Spirit and Blight.
Nurse is theoretically the best killer in the game. And I want to stress the theoretically part. If you do not miss a single blink, there is not much the survivors can do. So yes, in that regard, she is the best. But Blight is extremely easier to play and learn than Nurse, and he's almost just as good. Please stop making things up about what I am saying, I never said Blight is the only killer who can pressure survivors, I am saying he has both strong MAP pressure, and chase potential. Nurse has strong chase potential, NOT map pressure. Her pressure comes from downing survivors quickly and forcing them to get off gens and go for unhooks/heals.
We are properly answering your question. You are refusing to take our responses. Blight and Billy are the ONLY killers with high enough mobility to CONSISTENTLY pressure the entire map using Ruin/Undying/Tinkerer. Nurse doesn't have that kind of mobility, neither does Spirit, and Oni only has it when he has his power (therefore he is not consistent). That is why you generally only ever see Blight's run this build. He gets more value out of it than any other killer. Billy is a close second, but it's hard to say because barely anyone plays him anymore.
I typed out an equally long response to the bulk of what was said earlier but I'm going to be real with you, I don't care to discuss it so I'm just going to move on from it since that's not really the main talking point I want to get at anyways
I really have no skin in this game, but none of the responses are adequate and I really don't understand what's not clicking here. For the nth time, no one is questioning the effectiveness/power of the build on Blight. People are questioning why players who play Blight use the same build in such a high saturation, and you almost never see such a thing on other killers. Twins, Demo, and PH are exceptions as they have perk compatibility issues in regards to their power and/or playstyle to even win consistently with them. Blight doesn't.
There is nothing wrong with optimal builds and obviously people are going to use them but people are questioning the odd saturation of Blight players who use it as it is strange to droves of people. I have yet to see other players of killers use "optimal builds" to even a fourth of the frequency as I do Blight players. Most players of other killers in pub games have a variety, even a variety of strong builds. For Blight players even though he has multiple options for alternatives for strong builds (because let's be real you don't need ruin undying for the average pub game, even for practising Blight) they only use one as if those are the only perks they have in their inventory. 95% of them bring comp builds as if pub games are scrims. No one else does that.
The question is extremely simple: Why do so many Blight players bring comp builds in pub games but you don't see players of other killers bring it with the same frequency as Blight players do?
I'll make it even simpler: Why don't you see players of other killers like Nurse/Spirit/Hag and so forth bring comp builds or "optimal builds" just as much as Blight players do? Why aren't we seeing threads complaining about Infectious ruin undying corrupt nurse players? Or corrupt ruin undying pop Spirits? Wraith has become very popular since his recent buffs and you've had people make threads expressing complaints about how Wraith feels annoying to play against, but do you know what they don't complain about? Wraith players running optimal builds 95% of the time like Blight players. If people want to run optimal builds so often in general, why are people only complaining about Blight?
I've explained this extremely simply and if the question cannot be comprehended then you guys are kind of hopeless.
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@calem said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2451970#Comment_2451970
Because other than Billy, Blight has the mobility to properly use Ruin/Undying/Tinkerer to his advantage. He can rush to basically any gen on the map when Tinkerer procs, and he can keep up pressure to get value with Ruin. Other killers cannot afford to use 4 gen regression perks because without mobility, Ruin does not get as much value. Neither does Tinkerer. You only see Blights use it because he can optimally play into those perks' strengths. Billy can as well, but not many people play Billy anymore.
Blight's mobility is nice, but he also has collision issues so it's not always guaranteed. And Nurse also has incredible mobility as well, let's not act as if Blight is the only mobile killer, let alone the only killer that can get value out of ruin. Especially Nurse with range add ons, unless it's something like Mother's Dwelling, she can get from point A to C across the map typically with just two blinks at most.
Other killers can put pressure on survivors and generators and some can do it better (Nurse, hence why she's the strongest killer in this game as she can pressure survivors the best), I'm still not sure why you're acting as if Blight is the only one who can do that.
Every killer has an optimal build and it doesn't always consist of regression but even then you still don't see players of other killers use the same optimal build, and if you do it's because of perk compatibility issues like Twins and Demo. Blight is the only exception as there is no excuse.
No one is properly answering the question still.
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@MrCalac123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2451970#Comment_2451970
Because on Blight specifically it is very good. But frankly, the only perk you would swap out on other Killers would be Tinkerer and it'd still be a very, very good build.
That build (ruin and undying) also works well on killers like Nurse, Oni, Billy, Spirit, and so forth.
No one is questioning if the build is good for Blight. It does not answer why there is such a high saturation of Blight players who use it.
Let's not act like he is the only killer that ruin undying is compatible with, let alone is he the best. Ruin Undying almost works on every killer and it works on killers as strong or stronger than Blight but yet you aren't going to be seeing nearly as many Nurse or Spirits use Ruin and Undying, let alone Tinkerer.
I ask for the nth time again: Why is it only Blight players who use optimal builds to such a high saturation but you basically do not see this on any other killer?
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It would be interesting perhaps if Alchemist Ring got changed to where it does what it does now, but Blight's base movement speed becomes 110%. That seems like a kind of decent trade off.
I also think people are missing the point with this argument, and I don't get why it's not obvious. No one is questioning the power of ruin/undying/tinkerer or why people want to use it. People specifically single out Blight because an odd saturation of players use this build and seemingly nothing else. The only other killer you see such an optimal build ran on is Twins and they have legitimately and pretty significant perk compatibility issues that conflict with playing them efficiently and well to win.
No one is answering the question of: why is it only Blight players who go so hard in the paint and use basically quasi-tournament builds at all times in pub games but you don't see such a high saturation of the same build on any other killer?
Why don't we see Nurse's, Spirit's, Billies, Oni's, Freddy's, etc. who have an absurdly high saturation of using ruin undying tinkerer? All of these killers I mention, players have some variety in their builds and they don't need ruin undying to pub stomp, let alone do you see that even an eighth as frequently as you do with Blight players.
Blight does not need ruin undying to pub stomp, point blank period.
I will ask the question again: Why is it only Blight players who use optimal builds to such a high saturation but you basically do not see this on any other killer?
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@Yords said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2451750#Comment_2451750
I think it is because it is a build that allows you to play Blight, a killer with already fun gameplay, without the stress of having to deal with generators. Think about it, most players are meh or decent with Blight and usually lose generators in the process of chasing people with a hard to use power (a power with a high skill cap).
Using perks like ruin, undying, and tinkerer make it very simple and easy to slow the game down, you just play Blight. And of course BBQ for obvious reasons. If you used pgtw though, that would lose you time on initially starting a chase and make it harder. If you used CI, then you would have slowdown, but only for 2 minutes and it does not regress generators and survivors are likely to just work on other generators.
Ruin is also just satisfying to see in action as well, generators regressing without you doing anything other than scaring survivors off of generators which is your job as killer.
So in essence, it allows Blight players to learn how to play him while not carrying the stress of average killer games. At least that is my take on it.
That further makes me question why aren't other people learning other killers using ruin/undying/tinkerer (or whatever other third perk has synergy) ?
Your reasoning makes sense and it's something I thought about before but still doesn't explain why such an oddly high saturation of Blight players use it. New or not.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2451743#Comment_2451743
the last time i faced one of those teams in a public game was about 2 months ago and i still got an 8 hook 1k. you don't need to bring ruin/undying/tinkerer/bbq (or pop for extra fun) with stupidly good add-ons to public games, ever, let alone all the time.
it's even worse when they'll bring those builds in and say "that's what you get for being a swf" like??? im solo my friends list is public you can easily check??? and how dare i play the game with my friends, not every swf is the optimal group you think it is????
im so sick of seeing this build over and over, if you couldnt tell, and its always the same people and its always a blight.
I really don't understand why people don't get that the people who are frustrated with this build are less about it being used on Blight, but how 90% of the time you go against a Blight in red ranks in pub games it's the same build and it's both annoying and boring to go against.
People would be doing the same if every time you saw a Nurse or Spirit they had ruin/undying/tinkerer or something to that tune. But they don't.
The only other killer to use Ruin Undying to that degree are Twins and they have actual perk compatibility issues. Blight doesn't.
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@Yords said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2451634#Comment_2451634
cant even remember when i last saw a nurse tbh
There are plenty of other killers were ruin/undying/tinkerer can be extremely effective but you still don't see it nearly as much as on Blight players, which is basically every other Blight, and that's me underestimating there.
To reiterate, the issue is not about the perks itself. Everyone knows they're strong, everyone knows why it's used and that it's effective on Blight. What people don't understand is why 90% of Blight players use it as if it's the only perks available for him, but you don't see killers with similar compatibility with those perks using them also.
Like I legitimately want that question answered. Why do Blight players run that build so much and why don't players of other killers use that same build when it's similarly as effective?
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
I can definitely blame a Blight player taking that build into a public game for not giving a ######### about the fun of the other side, and I better not hear a peep out of them about any form of genrushing, tbagging, clicking, or "toxic optimal 4man SWFs" becuase if you don't want one side to have fun, why should they want you to have any either.
As survivor if I see a Blight player running this build I go out of my way to make sure their game is unpleasant since they took the leisure to make mine unpleasant.
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No one is questioning that the build is effective in general, let alone on Blight. People don't like it specifically because 90% of Blight players use that and you see pretty much no other killer use it. The exception is a similar build on Twins but they have actual compatibility issues with perks, meaning regression ones like Pop are extremely ineffective and debilitating to play them effectively. Blight can use a variety of alternatives like corrupt, pop, thana, etc. but no, it's only ruin undying tinkerer. And it makes going against Blight unpleasant, particularly because the Blights who use this majority of the time aren't even good but they rely on regression to slow the game down and then camp when their hexes get cleansed.
Ruin Undying Tinkerer also works well on Nurse too. Can someone explain to the class why you never see nurses run this build nearly as much as Blights? I can't even recall the last time I saw a nurse use Pop for #########'s sake.
No one so far is capable of answering the question why are blight players the only ones who are using sweat perks all the time and you don't see such hardcore meta builds nearly as much on any other killer even if it's just as effective to use. I'm still sat here waiting for an answer.
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I have my own precautions. I disable end game chat. Any BM'ing like clicking and teabagging is whatever and I move onto the next game. My post wasn't about how I feel, but how people feel in general when they're in contact with generally obscene actions towards them.
The point was that the listed actions I said would be obscene to do in real life and that many people act like when those things happen online that absolutely zero emotions should be evoked, but that's not how the psychology of social interactions work. It suddenly doesn't seize to exist just because it's happening in an online environment. It happens when you're communicating with people and guess what, you're not talking to bots online; you're talking to people.
Yes it's very obviously done to get reactions but so are real life equivalents, and the reason doesn't tend to matter because those same people who dismiss (negative) emotional reactions online aren't as quick to do it when a real-life equivalent happens, regardless of if it's obviously done for bait.
People overrate the toxicity of this game when a vast majority of it can be censored. On console end game chat is auto censored and you can tweak message settings so you don't get personal DM's about it. Pc can censor it as well. All that's left really is clicking and teabagging. In many other games voice chat is mandatory to play competently and you are always prone to toxicity as a result.
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@ThiccBudhha said:
Nobody even agrees on what maps are killer or survivor favored. And even then, it depends on the killer, and even then, it depends on the rng. But as someone who does not use items or add ons, map offerings are literally the only valuable thing in bloodwebs.
And Hawkins won't spawn for me. So I am going to need to start using those sooner rather than later.
Let's not act like the majority of the maps* don't obviously tilt in a particular role's favour. For almost all of them it's very obvious and the killer chosen doesn't suddenly make it the inverse, it just means it makes it somewhat easier for them but it's still a survivor sided map.
Nurse can fair well better than any other killer on Cowshed but it's still the most survivor sided map in the game. There's a reason why it's not allowed in tournaments even when the majority of the time the killers played are Spirit and Nurse.
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What I don't understand about some people in this game and people in video game communities in general is how hard they try (and fail) to apply stoicism. They think any interactions online should not upset you and "it's just a video game", but the nature of video games, particularly PvP ones, are by nature prone to being upsetting. You're in a competitive environment, failure sucks. Being taunted and disrespected sucks (bm'd), being on the receiving end of being insulted sucks. It doesn't matter if it's online or not; you're not talking to bots, you're still talking to people.
The people who go so hard in the "it's just a video game" / think that interactions online (good or bad, but especially bad ones) should not have any sort of emotional impact on you to any degree are trying extremely too hard to put on a strong face to look more mature and stoic. The psychology of social interactions suddenly doesn't go away because you're online. It still applies.
Of course, tame your emotions and don't get out of control, but there's no different standard really than in real life. Keep your emotions in check but please people stop acting like people need to be emotionless online. That's not only not a solution and unrealistic but you're doing more harm than good.
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@twistedmonkey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2444584#Comment_2444584
It would be if we had load outs we could save 😉.
one can dream
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@twistedmonkey said:
This needs a lobby fix for both sides before they can remove last second switching.
This was never a thing until killers started dodging lobbies due to items. This can't be removed without fixing the dodging issue as each side should be able to play the game as it was intended with everything at the game offers.
The only fair way i can see to fix it its to have time locks for both sides.
Lock both sides into the lobby at 40s so they can't leave without a penalty to rematch.
Survivor loadouts get locked in at 20s so the killer has that time to set up before it starts.
20s isn't enough to switch perks (especially a full loadout) and even more so on console.
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If you want my advice, if you're in a situation like yours such as you know survivors are in the exit gates, unless you're going there to force them out, don't give them attention. Just afk in the map somewhere.
I'd also disable end game chat and do not open it, even if it's to talk crap.
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The joke stopped being potentially slightly funny after the first time it's said. Now it's just cringe how people say it due to mob mentality and unoriginality.
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Red Forest is the most boring realm on this game and I wish it was removed. As both survivor and killer I want to dc whenever I get any map on it, it's simply not fun.
It's actually so boring to the point where I'd rather play Fractured Cowshed as killer than Red Forest.
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@miketheratguy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2437921#Comment_2437921
I agree, whether someone likes it or not it's a new map. Not everyone is going to like each new map that gets added to the game, but to discount it and wish it were deleted for that reason (as many have done) is silly to me.
I just wish the new map was more balanced, because even for Nurse that map isn't pleasant, and survivors are pretty much in full control of it. But at the end of the day it's still new content and I took a bit of effort to learning the layout and whatnot.
Aesthetically, it's one of the best maps on the game. In terms of how it plays it's not really that bad as people say but it's not necessarily the most pleasant (as killer, at least). I hope the variations make the map for tolerable, but it's not bad enough to be deleted imho.
I'd rather go to RPD than the lab map, which thankfully is going to get removed :).