hailxsatanxeveryxday
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@[Deleted User] said:
You can get to a certain point via regular matches. That's a good place to start. Try to get to a point where you're winning the vast majority of your games on killers you're comfortable with, and do it with green or lower add ons (there's a reason for this).
But you eventually reach a point where the games don't get any more difficult. At least not with any consistency. DbD matchmaking isn't competitive at all. And at a certain point, you will not continue to improve by playing public matches.
If you really want to try DbD at MMR 9000, you can join a comp server (there are many) and try to get some scrims. It's like being back at 300 hours again at first. You will get destroyed for a bit, especially until you get used to the game speed and tracking. Players don't announce themselves for chases. 7 stages on an M1 killer is considered a good result with limited survivor loadouts. And you'll never ever feel like you've been gen rushed in a regular matched again, which is a plus.
1v1s are another fantastic tool for sharpening your mechanics. You'll improve more in 30 minutes of 1v1s with a killer than you will in weeks of playing games with them. Especially if you're facing a really good survivor.
Watching Otz and content creators can help, but their content is more geared towards killers in the learning phase, not the fine-tuning phase. I'd suggest checking out the DbDLeague youtube channel. It's a good reminder that skill is a very relative thing. It's an invite-only league. Everyone is proven or has references. But players on either side can look completely out of their depth even in that setting.
To address some of your points:
Reactions and reflexes can help, but they're not the end-all-be-all. It depends on how far you want to go. I'm in my mid-30s and Nurse is a killer I can't really play competitively against better teams. I have too much trouble with the survivor movement. But you'll still be fine on M1s. They're much more macro-based at a high level. And you're fine regardless if you're just sticking to public matches.
Regarding game mechanics, please watch some DbDLeague. I still pick up on things from those players. I learned you can't body block a Ghostface because he has no collision while stalking.
The math thing, yes and no. You need to understand or get a feel for how far along gens are relative to hook timers. That comes with practice and you don't need hard numbers.
Yea, holy effing poop, the Ghostface thing works. I just tried it.
Thing is, I think I did get to that point where I was winning 70% of my matches, but I've gotten worse lately. I don't think that it's just that my MMR is rising, either; I'll just keep telling myself "Oh, it doesn't matter if I take that pallet to the face; I can recover from it," and then I'll do it six more times, and I... won't recover from it. Those little things are really important. Every split-second in chase counts. I've gotten sloppy, and that costs me bigtime in games.
And yeah; while I always know most of the things that Otz is talking about, I always pick something up from his playstyle as I'm watching. Like, "Damn, I didn't even think of moving that way to avoid a flashlight," or "Oh, crap, that's a great way to move quickly around the basement stairs." So it's not just studying their little lectures even as much as studying the little things they can do. I've developed my own techniques, but watching players who are better than me will only cause me to benefit. A lot of these things are probably plenty obvious to anyone who's spent time watching others play. I haven't, and that's fixable.
Well, reaction time is important, and I've been through hell lately, probably enough so to cause serious brain damage. I don't care what the doctors say; I believe recovery is possible.
I do think hard numbers would help in some cases. Like, I might be able to predict (or at least narrow down) which builds are being used by the number of seconds it takes to get a gen done at the start of the match, that sort of thing.
Is there any way I could use voice recognition software to set timers on my phone while I'm playing so I can see some of these things in real time (rhetorical question)? That might be worth looking into. (Would this fall into the category of banned "3rd party software or other tools", or is it more akin to using a communication app?)
Took a break from writing this message to play, and I just had a game with one of the worst SWFs I've ever faced. All of them were decent loopers, highly coordinated, slamming gens, bodyblocking as effectively as they could (I think they were actually aware of the Ghostface trick), managing to predict how I would bait out their Dead Hards, multiple CoHs up immediately, and they actually managed to figure out how to revive the infinite locker save trick by using firecrackers and flashbangs (there was no way to counter it; they didn't need an angle). Bamboozle only worked once because they knew I had it after the first time. Obsession did their best to keep me from building Save stacks. God dammit. They weren't even a bully squad, just really good.
Several hooks, killed one of them.
I don't meet those kinds of survivors every game, but I need to get better at dealing with them when I do.
To be fair, I usually keep an anti-SWF build handy in case I come across anything that looks like a 10,000-hour death squad, but these guys were completely unassuming. Low prestige levels, boring and non-matching names, no fancy cosmetics.
I'm not ready for MMR 900-type games just yet. I think my first goal needs to be being able to completely dominate games in regular matchmaking.
@I_CAME said:
It's indeed possible to win the large majority of your games. There are dozens if not hundreds of streamers who do so consistently. Something people conveniently ignore when they cry that the game is rigged. It's easier to do this than just admit they aren't very good. Granted these are people with 5-10k hours. What I think it comes down to is you either have game sense or you don't. I sometimes watch comp players like Knightlight who win nearly every game they play regardless of killer/build. The biggest thing they do right is making all the correct decisions as far as macro gameplay goes. The average killer is terrible at this aspect of the game and makes horrible decisions consistently. I think this is far more important than mechanical skill.
Yeah, macro game sense is something that I'm aware of, but not good at managing it, especially now that Ruin/Undying is gone. Sure, that started getting cleansed pretty quickly after a while, but it always gave enough slowdown to start the game. Now, the only passive slowdown perk worth running is Deadlock, and it's S-tier, but not really enough for an M1 killer.
The gen kick meta builds are strong against average players, but good SWFs will wreck you since so many of those perks are dependent upon getting downs and hooks or kicking before you can even chase, so I'm trying not to rely on those sorts of builds.
Managing gens is tough. I need to figure out a system for that.
@Emoba said:
Do not be afraid to pass as the bad guy. You're here to kill in a PvP game, not to be an entertainer at a children's party.
Oh, yeah. I'm one of the meanest killers you've ever met. I do not give hatch. I do not show mercy. I do tunnel. I do camp. I do slug. I am willing to throw the entire game just to screw you over if you intentionally annoy me.
But that only gets you so far. That maximizes your kill rate (except maybe for the latter example), but it does not replace actually being good at the game.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3335342#Comment_3335342
My apologies, didnt see the 2nd post
Would still love to see the footage tho, most of them are funny af to watch
Yeah, I'm sorry. I hadn't had my coffee.
Um, yeah, I will, but I have to watch some video editing tutorials first, because I don't know how to edit out the names.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3334905#Comment_3334905
This is a very different scenario from what is in the original post..?
So are they subtle or are they blatant? Cant have both at once
It wasn't both at once. If you'd read my posts before replying to them, you'd know that. I would appreciate it if you'd do so in the future so that you don't have to ask questions I've already answered. Reading comprehension is our strength. =D
Feel free to refer to the above posts and comments for further clarity.
@Warlord1981NL said:
There is a bug with an add-on to the map that causes you to see the hatch before it spawns. BHVR in their undying wisdom is refusing to fix it.
In this case, they were flat-out cheating.
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@Xendritch said:
DBD is the only game I've ever played where cheating and just using things available in the game can be so hard to tell apart. I've had hatch literally spawn under me, I've had games with lucky guesses with survivors in lockers, I've had gens done in 30 seconds and I've had survivors DH me pretty much on reaction. If someone wanted to they could subtle cheat and probably get away with it for a very long time or alternatively someone could never cheat but get accused of cheating multiple times and there would be reasons for it.
Yeah, but this is the second time I've come across hatch spawns where it was just THAT perfect and one teammate was trying to distract me at exactly the right time to let the other one get hatch.
I've had plenty of times where the hatch has spawned under me, and I wouldn't accuse anyone just for that, but I've had two games now where it was incredibly suspicious.
I've been accused of cheating plenty of times with Vanity Mirror Myers because I saw someone enter a locker and snatched them out immediately or else the survivors were unaware that VM even exists and that I couldn't be wallhacking with a legitimate addon if I've leveled up to T2, but in this case, my gut feeling was correct. The same survivors showed up again in another game a few minutes ago (was I being targeted at that point, or is it just dumb luck?) and didn't even try to hide it that time.
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I guess they must have figured their account was burned when I threatened to report them the first time, so they just said to hell with it and started cheating as blatantly as they pleased, not knowing that my screen recorder had actually failed.
Yeah, in the first game, you could have made the argument that they just got really, really, really, perfectly lucky. This time, there's no question, constantly disappearing from a gen and/or flying across the screen any time they were approached.
YES YES YES I DID IT I GOT YOU BASTARDS I GOT YOU.
feelsgoodman.jpg
I'll upload a video later once I figure out how to edit out the usernames, and maybe Shroompy can explain to me how they "just got lucky".
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@Shroompy said:
I highly doubt they were cheating, and just got lucky
as for their teammates calling them bots, most likely an insult to call them bad
Oh, I missed this.
Wrong you are, Shroompy. They were cheating very blatantly in this last match, same usernames, and this time, I got it on video.
This time, they were teleporting between gens so that they could finish them without being caught.
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Got it on video this time. They weren't subtle about it at all this time, teleporting all over the map in front of me. Good riddance.
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Oh, crap. I just got into a lobby with them again. Where's my screen recorder?
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@Piruluk said:
The cheaters almost capable for anything in this game.
I think the only game is worse than DbD when comes to cheating is GTA5, because that game 100% client sided, so cheaters can do whatever they want really.
DbD also designed as 100% client based game, essentially p2p that means, only later the devs added a server, however almost no server checks are present.
The biggest advantage of this system that is very cheap for devs to maintain, it cost next to nothing. Also if you have a very bad internet, then you can still play the game, the downside is that others will suffer because of your bad net.
The disadvantages of client sided games are, that impossible to defend against cheaters, even the best company couldnt do anything, the only solution is to redesign the whole game to add more server checks. However that would mean that the devs earning lot less money and takes lot of effort time and money etc to add those.
Also players still playing despite how easy to cheat in the game.
The devs solution were that streamers became protected and they rarely encounter vs cheaters now, however non streamers got the suspected cheaters in their lobbies instead, so average players got the short stick recently.
Yeah, I remember Otz getting upset about it and getting special protections for the streamers. I can't blame him, and I don't think there's anything wrong with protecting streamers since they're going to get the worst of it, but I do wish there was some way they could do something for regular players.
Again, though, it makes me wonder how many subtle cheaters there really are. The only reason I found these people out at all is because I stomped them so hard/made them so mad they had to go out of their way to give me the finger by flagrantly cheating the hatch.
I've had other games like that, too, where players will know where the hatch is or can somehow make themselves unhookable, but the ones who are just that bad at cheating are probably only the tip of the iceberg.
Side note: all the stuff people keep telling me about how Michael doesn't have any S-tier builds/playstyles is ringing pretty hollow in the face of the fact that cheaters have to abandon the match because they know they can't win.
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@MoNosEmpire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/362723/why-i-think-dead-hard-needs-a-nerf-again
I mean.. if you're able to master killer and their perks then why aren't survivors able to master dead hard? I mess up dead hard often but it's still on the killer if he swings too early. It seems from your description that you are swinging almost instantly. When I come up against survivors with DH it's a 50/50. The perk doesn't last long at all and you can easily mind game for it.
When killers tunnel Dead Hard really is the last line of defence since killers complaining has killed every other perk.
On the contrary, tunneling is the last line of defense against DH. If someone truly excels at using it, your best bet is to smack them right off the hook before they can heal so you aren't dealing with three health states again.
An analogous killer perk would be one where I hit M2 near a pallet, and if the survivor guesses wrong, they're instadowned as soon as they drop it, and then it recharges again in 40 seconds.
Almost all of the decent killer perks were nerfed into the ground, and now Eruption has been comfirmed for a nerf. Which is fine, but DH needs one, too.
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@Johnagon_Infinity said:
I'll preface the whole thing by saying I have about 6.5k hours in the game. Most of those hours have been on killer, most of those hours have been on the Hillbilly. I play on NA West servers at nighttime, which is referred to as the "demon hours" or "juicer-hours".
For those unfamiliar, it's when all the sweaty SWFs, God-tier solo-queue survivors and literal comp teams get on to destroy late-night killers. I have a few problems with Dead Hard. Firstly, I will address: yes, Dead Hard was nerfed for bad/average players. The people who used E for distance promptly dropped this perk and picked up something that was easier to get value out of. But for those who always used DH for the ability to dodge attacks, this perk HASN'T changed.
Some of the issues I have with the perk are: the passive deterrence it grants, the fact it's now the obvious choice for an exhaustion perk again, the immense value one-usage of Dead Hard can grant, and the fact it is ping-reliant. When I know a player has Dead Hard, I now have to play around it when it comes to pallets/windows. This means this survivor now gets even more time before I can lunge at them when they are looping structures. The standard lunge-distance is effectively shortened against anyone who is using DH. This is a passive deterrence that the existence of DH has on the game.
Having Dead Hard will indefinitely grant you maybe an extra half second or so around EVERY pallet or window. This effect is exaggerated if the survivor is using resilience or doesn't have an item (watching an item disappear when a survivor commits to a vault is how you can be certain to swing at a survivor and avoid their DH.)
If a survivor is looping a pallet, they are able to, rather easily, time their DH effectively enough to where you either hit their DH, and they get to run off to the next tile. Or if you don't swing, they get to pallet stun you. In these situations, survivors can be exceptionally greedy with little repercussions. They can choose to pretend to drop the pallet, and you respect it, now they get even more distance for perhaps another loop. Or they do a spin, run right at you, but you wait it out, and then they do it once more, but this time they actually use their DH. Either way, this enables the survivor to get an extra couple loops out of a strong pallet.
It is also now the obvious choice perk all over again. DbD has tons of perks where the option is "I can bring this off meta, kind of niche perk that could be super handy, or I could bring the safe perk that always gets value." Because Dead Hard is the best exhaustion in the game, the other exhaustion perks don't matter. Kind of like how Deadlock is a fine slowdown all on its own, but doesn't compare to eruption/brine combo.
When I go up against the God-squad Seal Team SWF who I know is here to ruin my night, do gens in 5 minutes and leave, you bet your ass 3 out of 4 -- if not all 4 -- of those survivors going to be bringing Dead Hard. I don't mean guys with 1.5k hours, I mean literal 3-6k hour survivor-mains who are deadly with Dead Hard. Those guys will very likely get value at least once -- if not multiple times -- every game.
As a killer, there are few things more miserable than when EVERY survivor in a match is running DH. I will pull off some crazy-bump logic on Blight that took my hundreds of hours to master. I'll line up everything beautifully and the survivor presses E and it doesn't matter that I landed a frame-perfect hit on them. Or if I managed to land a sick chainsaw curve on a survivor, they'll just tank it and keep running while I sit there fatigued.
Another issue is that some killers Dead Hard will work nearly all the time on, because their attacks are predictable. Plague's red vomit, Trickster's knives, Huntresses' hatchets, Blight's rushes, Nurses blinks, Oni's kanabo, etc. This is honestly one of the biggest issues with the game I can think of right now. As a killer, the meta of the game encourages you to whiff attacks on survivors. As Blight, I have to rush past them the first time, to bait out their DH. As Oni, I have to glide off of them, stop, turn around and slam, as plague I have to fake a puke. The list goes on. Dead Hard encourages killers to not use their power. If you're thinking about Legion/Slinger, okay. There are two killers in this game -- 3 if you include Pinhead with Original Pain -- who can completely ignore Dead Hard. That's 3 killers out of 30.
And now let's get into the biggest issue: dead hard is now even stronger than before when activated. Old Dead Hard got consistent value. New Dead Hard gets less consistent value, but when activated is FAR more useful than any other exhaustion perk in the game. One usage of Dead Hard easily outweighs whatever 3 Lithes, Sprint Bursts or Balanced landings might buy you. The killer is now forced to sit through a weapon-hit animation, slowed down movement, while the survivor gets an maneuverable boost of speed in ANY direction they'd like, not just one straight line like old DH.
If I could pick any one perk on the survivor-side I'd like to see get re-worked, I would pick Dead Hard again. I hate Hyperfocus /stakeout as much as the next killer-main. And those do need to be addressed, but DH is still the best exhaustion perk in the game. I'd definitely take an eruption nerf in trade for a DH nerf.
Ping is also an issue with Dead Hard. If you have high ping, or the killer has high ping, your perk is now useless. That's not a good design and it rewards those who have low ping -- something the game already does naturally with vaults. The argument that "Well, I suck with it anyway. I can never get it to activate." is not useful to the conversation. I'm bad at Nurse, she still got nerfed.
What's my solution? No more third health stage. DbD has come a long way in the last 6 years and the community has gotten good enough where having a third health-stage on command is too much. It's not viable, it doesn't need to be in the game. People have had 6 years to master this game, they have THOUSANDS of hours invested in it. If you set a new level of mastery for them, they will reach it eventually. Ex. Nurse.
I have some ideas on possible rework ideas, but I know they'd not be a compelling alternative to how strong Dead Hard already is, and it would just anger those reading, so I'll leave them out of this post. I've heard a common complaint that feels necessary with new STBFL in the game, and if it would make the transition easier, I'd be all for a nerf on STBFL. Dead Hard is a problem for the meta of the game, and it has been a problem since its release. If you'd like to post your ideas for a rework, I'd gladly read them. If you want to share your opinions, I'd gladly read those , too.
Totally agree with you, OP. Seeing four DHs in most games again and losing downs every other chase.
At any rate, the main reason I run STBFL is because it soft counters Dead Hard. Wasn't aware survivors were complaining about it, but they'd see a lot less of it if killers saw a lot less of DH.
@legacycolt said:
Dead Hard only has a 0.5 sec duration. If you keep swinging into dead hard, that’s on you. Also dead hard is needed against op killers like nurse, blight and spirit.
The problem is that really good survivors will force lose-lose situations near windows, pallets, or other injured survivors. I have games where I'll get 5-6 stacks on STBFL before I'll get a down.
Some of those hits might have just been me not remembering or bothering to bait it out, but in a lot of cases, it's people forcing hits at loops and then their buddies with 0 hooks coming in to take a protection hit halfway through the chase, and then they're back to take another protection hit 40 seconds later.
And, sure, if "baiting it out" should be the counterplay, make it so that it doesn't activate within 3m of windows, pallets, or injured survivors. Or just make it so that you can't drop pallets or vault windows for 5 seconds afterward.
Or make it a one-use perk. Or increase the exhausted timer to 180 seconds. I shouldn't be seeing it on four survivors and multiple times every single chase.
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@Bwsted said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3330156#Comment_3330156
It might be their goal, though. Their concept of meta shake up is just that.
Anyway, I think they'll go with another healing speed nerf, or a re-blessing time penalty of sort.
If that's their goal, they'll hit Dead Hard first. I see 1-2 Circle of Healings every other game, but I'm constantly seeing 3-4 Dead Hards. That one perk is costing entire games.
CoH is still S-tier, but it's not as OP at this point.
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I'd rather have a real, proper Dead Hard nerf, but I won't say "no" to CoH. It's a moderately overpowered perk that imbalances most games it's played in, and you do see it just about every game. If they're nerfing Eruption (which, whatever, fine), this could help balance things out.
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Yeah, I honestly got it into my head that this update was going to be a massive survivor buff that made every solo group an essential SWF and that I was going to have to be dealing with 4E cumbstomps every other game, but I haven't noticed any difference playing as either killer or survivor. It's not that bad.
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Distortion was one of my main survivor perks before its buff. I've actually been using it less, if anything.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
I would really like.... Ten build slots. Sometimes I'm brimming with ideas and I have to take screenshots of the dumb stuff I come up with to remember them. Surely it can't be that taxing from a database perspective?
By my calculations, this would cost less thsn 500GB of space, and that's being very generous with the numbers (assuming inefficient storage and more player accounts than are probably currently registered).
That's per server, yeah, but it's not like 500GB is expensive these days, and that's, again, assuming we're using more space than strictly necessary and leaving some room to grow.
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Goodbye. We'll miss you.
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@Tostapane said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3321065#Comment_3321065
i would gladly put your "op" myers aganist a decend team in the borgo map just to do an example... you'll change your idea rather quickly trust me
Sure. When do you have time? I'm pretty much open.
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@Unimatrix00 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3321284#Comment_3321284
What do you mean didn't time it properly? They blinded me completely, I retained hold of the survivor on my shoulder. This doesn't happen when they get a full blind.
It can. The blind and the stun are separate. You can get blinded while carrying a survivor without being stunned if you move/look away fast enough.
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@bunnyfengenthusiast said:
You are part of the problem. Both are incredibly problematic. Complaining that the killer is using Eruption when you're running full meta perks with DH as your selected exhaustion perk is incredibly hypocritical.
No kidding. I had a game today where four survivors were running DH as an SWF (P100 flashlight switch at the last second, of course), and the only thing they were good at was using DH at pallets.
They were terrible at mindgames, blinding at every pallet,. barely knew how to loop, but I lost five minutes to them in total because of that perk.
And then they complained about my using Eruption in the EGC.
Yeah, okay.
@WesCravenFan said:
You're not wrong. People act like 25 seconds is too long to delay a Survivor but are perfectly okay with Dead Hard buying 25 seconds to delay a Killer.
Which is equivalent to 100 seconds of survivor delay.
@Tostapane said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3320483#Comment_3320483
i propose a fair trade: you get eruption nuked (or reworked) and 2 the general buffs that killer got gone for good (basekit BS and the 2 free stacks of STBFL), but in exchange you get dead hard and off the record completely reworked (not nerfed, REWORKED) and basekit BT gone (as far as i know, that was an extremely stupid change because now people are doing saves with the killer still near... they should be punished for the unsafe unhook, not rewarded for a bad play)
OTR and basekit BT aren't OP, and you can keep them. You can have Eruption, too. We just want DH to get run into the ground like they did to Ruin.
If you want the basekit killer buffs gone, then we need Circle of Healing reworked (not nerfed, REWORKED). Circle of Healing's base premise is OP, but the basekit killer buffs just barely boost killers at all.
(I'm not really complaining about CoH all that much here, though. It's nowhere near as awful as DH.)
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@Tostapane said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3320463#Comment_3320463
LMAO myers s tier killer, now i've see a good joke 🤣
Oh, but he is. That's the thing about Michael; he's 5 or 6 different killers in one. His playstyle changes completely depending on what he's running.
I don't care how good you are, your chances against Mikey when he's running Fragrant Tuft and Memorial with Call of Brine, Pain Resonance, Pop, and Eruption are damn near zero, especially if he camps a three-gen from the start. There's just nothing you can do.
Same goes for Memorial + Tombstone Piece and perks that compliment that playstyle. It requires some strategy and forethought, far more than people think it does, but he's the only killer that can pop up in front of you and instakill you without having seen you the entire game. Then it's a 3v1 (and if he's playing right, he already has a few hooks), and if he has good perks, the rest of the team is toast.
And then there's the Vanity Mirror + Dead Rabbit + M&A combo, which is harder to pull off, but also S-tier (and his best build, if you ask me). No terror radius, and you can wallhack at full movement speed (unlike Cracked Mirror). It's just not even fair.
Sure, those all require specific addons, and some of his addons - hell, most - are hot garbage, including his other iri, but he will ######### you up with the right perks. Even Otz, who is one of Michael's biggest detractors, admits that he'd get a higher place in the tier list if he considered certain addons, and he did put Fragrant Tuft and TP near the top of the addon tier list when he made that video.
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@Laurie268 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3320279#Comment_3320279
So you think lose-lose situations should be removed? Rip all antiloop killers
One, I don't use any of those, so removing them wouldn't affect me, so, yeah, whatever.
Two, if a killer is able to force a lose-lose situation that imbalances the game to that degree, maybe it should be looked at. Maybe getting out of a free hit at a pallet might not matter much if you're up against Blight or the other survivors aren't competent enough to be doing gens, but it's a really big deal against Ghostface, especially if four survivors are running it and know how to use it.
Most of my wins with Ghostface (meaning, 3-4K) are with 0-1 gens left, and that's with a mix of antichase and slowdown perks, the only saving grace being that STBFL gets stacks when hitting a DHing survivor.
If everyone is running DH, my options are basically to tunnel them off the hook or run NOED every game. If those are acceptable solutions, then, sure, we already have some, but I think that perk is in a sorry state when those are the best counters.
EDIT: Also, honestly, I wouldn't feel the same way if every other meta perk didn't get nerfed into the ground, but the worst (best) perk in the game then is still the worst (best) perk in the game.
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I think he's mostly fine as-is (he's an S-tier killer depending upon build), but I agree with the OP; he shouldn't be able to run out of stalk.
Also, half of his addons are completely useless.
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Everyone is overlooking the most obvious solution to this problem:
Tunneling.
Next time you see a survivor with Dead Hard, hit them as soon as they're off the hook, and then just tunnel them out of the game altogether. They can't use DH if they have deep wound. They can't use DH if they're not in the game.
@Phasmamain said:
I’d gladly lose DH if it means eruption also gets removed
Okay. I'm all for this.
@FridayNightPizza said:
I'd be more than happy with this, it has far too much of a strangle hold on playing killer if you ask me, having to act like everyone has dead hard, waiting behind the survivor until they do use it, how it's completely uncountable at pallets. I've started maining slinger to circumvent this, I've honestly had enough of it.
I've started playing him lately, too. He's not just a great counter to DH, he's a hell of a lot of fun to boot.
Yeah, my main problem with DH is how strong it is at pallets. If it's out in the open or near a window, yeah, you can just bait it out. At pallets, it can still be used to force a lose-lose situation, same as it ever could, and that can extend a chase for another 1/3-1/2, which can be game-breaking against M1 killers or killers running perks that only activate on downs and hooks.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3317042#Comment_3317042
I do see the EAC popup, and I tried the force update, but still get the "EAC client cannot be instantiated" error. When I tried the verify and repair thing, nothing seems to happen.
That's weird.
What version of Proton do you have selected?
Are you sure the PROTON_EAC_RUNTIME variable points to the right place?
Have you tried "Force update" and retry multiple times?
This is a regression if you've gotten the missing hashfile error. You've already gotten past this point before. We just need to figure out why it's not working now.
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@CrypticGirl said:
Well, I've copied everything over, nothing overwritten, and it still says "EAC cannot be instantiated." So I'm completely lost on where it went wrong...
Should be an easy fix.
Do you see the little EAC popup with the little blue loading bar before DBD proper starts? If not, you need to make sure the PROTON_EAC_RUNTIME or whatever it was is set correctly.
If so, good; EAC was properly set up. Just go to "Force update if necessary" and relaunch. If that fails, try "Verify..." and then relaunch. The former is more likely to help than the latter, and the latter takes 10 minutes-ish to work, so try the former first.
If you've gotten the missing hashfile error, I'm assuming that it was indeed set up correctly to begin with, and all you have to do is click that button and you'll get to the menu (assuming all of the necessary files were copied).
That's also what I meant when I said that using the installer via Lutris doesn't work. If you get that error on Heroic and EAC is set up correctly, "Force update if available" fixes it. Lutris's Epic launcher has no such option.
This error has nothing to do with the files you copied, for the record, and you probably would have gotten it the next time you started it up regardless. I always, ALWAYS get this error the second time I launch the game after installing, but never the first. YMMV.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3316972#Comment_3316972
While I'm waiting for DBD to install on Steam, are these folders easy to locate? And will we have to do all these steps every time the game updates? Because it updates quite often, and if we have to keep doing this every time, it may not be worth it... 🙁
Yes. To find the files on Steam, right click on "Dead By Daylight" and then go to Manage -> Browse local files.
Heroic asks you where to install it when you first download the game, and if you forgot where it is, it should tell you in the settings for the game.
I don't know how frequently you have to redo all this. Maybe you don't at all. I haven't had to so far, but I'm erring on the side of caution since I have slow internet.
The thing that was most confusing to me is that there are different but similar folders like DeadByDaylight/Engine/Plugins and DeadByDaylight/DeadByDaylight/Engine/Plugins. You want the directory structure for all of the copied folders to match exactly, with the exception of the EasyAntiCheat folder from Steam, which goes in Engine/Binaries/EGS.
But just copy the folders listed in my post above and you're 90% of the way there (100% if I didn't forget any). Don't overwrite anything; everything that you need to copy doesn't exist yet in the EGS folder. (And definitely do not just copy/overwrite every file from Steam to EGS indiscriminately; this will result in failure since one or two files are different. I tried this.)
Couple of other tips (for anyone reading this):
Remember to have a version of Proton selected. GE is best, which you can download from Heroic's Wine manager, but remember to use Proton (meaning, Proton-GE-Proton, not Wine-GE-Proton).
Remember to test another game with EAC to make sure it's working correctly in general. (VHS uses it and is free. It's also not as good as DBD. EDIT: VRChat also has EAC and is much smaller.)
If you encounter a bug when trying to run a game from Heroic with something like "no version of Wine is selected", you might have to download a different (even older) version of Proton, run it with that, and then you can switch it back to the version you actually want once it's been opened once.
Epic launcher via Lutris does not work. Don't try it. It seems like it does at first, but whatever "Force update if available" does to fix the Heroic install doesn't appear to have an analogue for the Epic version, so once you start getting errors, you're just screwed. There might be a way to sync the Lutris installed games with Heroic so you don't have to redownload everything if that's how you installed it, but I didn't test this out.
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Also - last double-post for now - note that the first "DeadByDaylight" in the above instructions are the root install folder for the game, and "DeadByDaylight/DeadByDaylight" refers to the subfolder within the root folder. This confused me some at first, so I'm pointing it out.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3316946#Comment_3316946
I didn't find the post you're referring to, but it sounds different from the one I followed. I had tried to point to the Proton EAC Runtime itself, so I thought they may have been the problem, so I just pointed to the folder it was in. Then I just get "EAC Client Cannot Be Initiated" or something.
So in order to copy the EAC folder from the Steam version to the Epic version, does that mean I would have to install the Steam version of the game?
Yes, you need both the Steam and Epic versions installed. You can uninstall the Steam version once you've got Epic working, but I keep them both installed so I don't need to redownload the Steam version every time there's an update.
Yeah, the post in question wasn't very clear at all, and it wasn't in the original instructions.
You still need to add the PROTON_EAC_RUNTIME enviroment variable, and then you need to take the EasyAntiCheat folder from the root of the Steam version and copy it to the Engine/Binaries/EGS subfolder in the EGS version (so they're in different locations
Also, the missing files referred to here
after doing some testing might be like 70 or something. To prevent anyone from having to boot the game up that many times, copy the following folders from Steam to EGS (unlike above, these are placed in the exact same location in both folders):
DeadByDaylight/DeadByDaylight/Binaries/Win64/
DeadByDaylight/Engine/Binaries/Win64/
DeadByDaylight/Engine/Plugins/Experimental/
Dead by Daylight/Engine/Binaries/ThirdParty/CEF3
Dead by Daylight/Engine/Binaries/ThirdParty/ - there are threeish more folders here that already exist in Steam, but don't in EGS; compare the two and copy the ones that don't already exist
I'm going by memory here, but I think that's largely correct. If I did miss something, wait for the error message and just copy whatever folder the file is in that it's complaining about. But at least this way you can deal with one or two error messages instead of 70-something.
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It's also worth noting that the update to glibc 2.36 breaks EAC on everything (DBD included), so if you're using a rolling release or bleeding-edge distro, this may require a workaround.
I think Arch may (?) have already fixed this in its implementation of glibc, and there were workarounds floating around as well if you Google it. But I don't use Arch anymore and am not sure.
If anyone knows what glibc SteamOS is currently using (I imagine that Valve wouldn't allow EAC to break on its own platforms), that might be interesting.
On Gentoo, recompile glibc with the hash-sysv-compat USE flag.
The only other distros this might currently affect, AFAIK, are Fedora and OpenSUSE's rolling release branch, so if anyone's using those, try firing up any game with EAC and post results.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3316535#Comment_3316535
As additional info, the game tells me, "Easy Anti-Cheat Hash Catalogue not found."
Oh, and I missed this.
You didn't copy the EasyAntiCheat folder from the Steam version to the Epic version correctly. There's a post about this somewhere above. Take the EasyAntiCheat folder from the Steam version and copy it to the Engine/Binaries/EGS subfolder (or something like that) in the EGS folder.
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@Mach2 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3316107#Comment_3316107
They did not give us what we want. We want Steam Native Support, not a crummy work around that lags.
Apparently you don't follow DBD much because cross progression has been re-enabled. If we were just "content" with everything BHVR gave us, DBD would have flopped years ago. It's people like us that push the issues are what get BHVR to stand up and fix their wrongs.
This post thread is clearly not for you if you'll take what you can get and suck it up and move on. We want NATIVE Steam Deck Support that is actually supported. BHVR didn't "give us" the Heroic work around, people worked tirelessly to discover it. Don't give them credit for something they didn't do.
What are you even talking about?
- I'm not having any lag problems. What's your distro? Have you even tried this yourself?
- Apparently you don't follow DBD much outside of social media, because the Facebook and Twitter posts saying that "cross-progression has been re-enabled" aren't referring to EGS at all. EGS cross-progression is a relatively new feature; multiple people here have confirmed that it worked even before cross-progression was re-enabled on Stadia, which is what those posts are about.
- If we're being technical, Stadia cross-progression always worked, for that matter; it was account linking that was disabled for some time. I linked my accounts before there were any problems, and my progress has been syncing between the two flawlessly the entire time. Yes, cross-progression works flawlessly and always has. And you can currently link Steam, EGS, and Stadia, if you want, so I don't know what you're on about.
- Wait, come to think of it, is the game unplayably laggy on Linux, or is it so bug-free that there's no way bugs are the reason it hasn't been released yet? These statements seem to contradict each other. You understand that any performance issues affecting the EGS version of the game are going to be exactly the same for the Steam version being that they're both using Proton and are more or less identical, right?
What I wanted is to be able to play DBD on Linux without having to dual-boot another operating system.
I'm appreciative that there's now a way to accomplish this. It plays well, and they've confirmed that they're working on "native Steam support".
Being that they have confirmed that they're working on it, and we have clear evidence that that's exactly what they're doing, what is it that you're trying to accomplish? It seems like you think you're on some kind of a holy quest to bring the evils of BHVR's dev team to light. Do you even like this game?
I'll go ahead and stay in this thread to help people who actually do want to make this work.
Yes, it gives you a list of files you need to copy over from the Steam version to the Epic version. Same locations in both instances. When you copy that one, it will complain that it's missing another one next time you boot. There are 20 or 30 of them, I think. It's tedious, but once you've copied them all, the game works again.
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@Mach2 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3315939#Comment_3315939
It did work. Flawlessly. I don’t think making excuses for them is going to help us get Steam Deck support. They need the pressure from the community to get things done
I didn't see this before I wrote the above comment (which you should also read), but I'm not "making excuses".
They gave us what we wanted. It works. You can play it.
I was complaining about it as much as anyone, but now it works just fine, and all of my progress will be synced with Steam when they decide that's good and ready. I'd like to be making progress on my achievements, but the situation is currently just fine other than that.
I don't think "pressure from the community" is going to do much good, at least not here. They know we want it. They're getting it done. You have a solution in the meantime. Be happy.
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@IncapableOfSex said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3315939#Comment_3315939
Bugs are not a reason they have not released on steam deck yet, I have been playing this game for some time now on epic version in both my pc and steam deck and both versions run perfectly (including the same visual bugs that windows has)
That's not what I said, though. Whether there are or aren't (and I haven't found any, either), BHVR is a corporate entity, and they have bureaucratic ways of doing things. There not being any obvious bugs doesn't mean that one might not show up at some point and spoil everyone's party, and even though you and I can sit here and speculate on how unlikely that is, these things have to go through a rigorous testing process.
I was just reading up a few minutes ago on the class-action lawsuit over Aliens: Colonial Marines, which I'm surprised any court took up at all, but it resulted in a $1.25 million judgement.
Is something like that likely to happen over DBD enabling Steam Deck support slightly earlier than a handful of stuffy guys in suits think is a good idea? No. But if they don't follow rigorous standards on every product they make, something bad might happen eventually.
The way things are working right now, if someone fires up DBD on Linux and and their house explodes, BHVR can honestly say, "Well, these people weren't using our product in any intended way, and we're not liable."
Stop thinking like a normal human being with a brain and start thinking like a cold, corporate bureaucrat, and it actually makes a lot of sense.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4oPXHWrqVI -
I think the reason why there's a block on the Steam version is pretty obvious:
They don't want the forums (and Steam reviews) to be flooded with angry Steam Deck users who don't know anything at all about Linux and are upset because X feature doesn't work properly or map Y has a graphics bug or they just plain couldn't get the game to run. They haven't finished testing it thoroughly, and maybe the people at corporate are also waiting to get Valve's Verified seal of approval before moving forward.
At the same time, the devs aren't dicks, and so, in the meantime, we still get a way to play, and BHVR can take the stance in the meantime that it isn't something that's officially supported while gleaning valuable information from the few who are trying it.
As mainstream as the Steam Deck has become, merely enabling Proton support out-of-the-box is still going to lead to hundreds to thousands of people trying it and causing headaches for BHVR.
It takes an extra $10, a little bit of knowledge, and a lot of extra work to get it working on Linux, more work than just installing Windows on an SD card would be for the average Steam Deck user.
In the meantime, if you really want to play the game on Linux, get the Epic version. It's the price of two cups of coffee, and cross-progression works flawlessly. If playing the game is more important to you than what OS you're playing it on, dual-boot Windows or play on GeForce Now.
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They should really just remove the speed boost survivors get from DH. It'd still be an A-tier perk allowing them to tank a hit for free, and survivors would still make distance on the killer during the hit cooldown.
DH is the only formerly meta perk that's still meta after BHVR tried to switch up the meta.
I mean, c'mon. At least boost Ruin to 200% or make it not a hex perk.
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DH has started getting insufferably annoying again now that survivors know how to use it optimally. I'd personally be very happy with a sprint burst meta.
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Man, I miss Evil Dead. They added EAC back in July, and I haven't been able to play it since.
That game is probably the best of DBD's competitors. VHS is too goofy; doesn't feel like a horror game at all.
Got Back 4 Blood a month or two ago. Great game, but it doesn't quite have the soul that Left 4 Dead has. Still playing it compulsively nevertheless.
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@StarLost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3313431#Comment_3313431
12% would make it pretty much objectively worse than PR. Not only is it less regression, but you have to kick it (one of the core benefits of PR is time saved).
But the advantages over PR would be (1) you can damage multiple gens at once, and (2) you don't have to find a Scourge Hook or even manage to hook anyone, just get a down.
I'm trying out a build right now with PR/Pop/Dying Light/Eruption, and damn is it mean. If a gen is 99'd, you can get 22% off when you kick it with Pop, another 10% when you down someone, another 15% if you hook someone on a Scourge Hook, and then you can run back and kick another gen with Pop (which is guaranteed 12% if the gen is more than half done), and then gain a DL stack thanks to the hook, leading ultimately to a 3-24% speed penalty on top of everything else.
I'm liking this better than the CoB meta since CoB can only do 15% damage on its own, and that's only if it's left alone for 30 seconds. With this build you can get, in theory, almost a full 50% with a single kick, and since it's a flat regression, survivors can't just tap a gen to prevent further progress.
Eruption would still be useful in builds like this without being OP.
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I use Eruption so that I can defend gens from a distance on killers with low mobility. The incapacitated effect doesn't matter all that much to me, personally.
I wouldn't be against getting rid of it entirely if the base damage was buffed to 12% or so. Survivors would still have less damage done to the gen overall since being off of a regressing gen for 25 seconds means ~8.5% extra damage on top of the 10% caused by the generator explosion, so a flat 12% would still be less than the ~18% done by the perk currently while still keeping the perk effective.
Also worth seeing how Eruption's effectiveness is affected by the upcoming update. Knowing when an injured survivor is being chased will give other solo survivors a chance to hop off of gens before the down.
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@AverageKateMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/360392/fun-hubris-fact
So basically another perk that's still dead in the water and any possible value you could is minimal at best? Grim Embrace moment
It's fun with Enduring and Spirit Fury on Ghostface or Clown. You don't get many hits out of it, but you eat through pallets like nobody's business, and you can almost audibly hear the "Oh, #########" the first time a survivor stuns you and sees the pallet break.
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@[Deleted User] said:
She'll lose quite a bit of variety. On the one hand, it's great because we're closer to people actually needing to know how to play Nurse to do well on Nurse. But we're going to be seeing a whole lot of The Build (CoB/Eruption/Pain Res) on Nurse until they address the slowdown meta, so players will still be able to fail upwards with her to a degree.
As an aside, every strong high skill cap killer should be getting the Nurse treatment. Kill the busted add ons so players can't crutch on them in lieu of learning the killer's mechanics. That goes for Blight with, well, most of his good add ons, and Spirit with MDR/Cherry Blossom.
Yeah, sure.
Nerf Spirit!
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310082#Comment_3310082
The slightest twitch of the joystick and you end up aiming 90 degrees farther than you intended. The deadzone settings for this game are abysmal. Maybe you have better deadzone settings on your fancy PC controller drivers.
No, that's still very much a problem, but it doesn't stop me from getting 4Ks (going from playing M1 killers almost exclusively to a B-tier killer makes me feel like a god). I actually don't know if M+KB would be any easier, though. It's not easy to hit survivors from 20m away, but I'm not sure that's what his power is for. I can do 10m just fine.
I don't know what platform you're playing on, but a DualSense is probably one of the better purchases I've made the past couple of years. It's an extremely good controller with some pretty badass features.
I'm playing on Linux, and since Sony donates the drivers for DualSense directly to the Linux kernel, I don't have to jump through 80 hoops to get everything to work the way you have to in Windows, plus it doesn't constantly disconnect itself and controller latency is noticeably improved over Windows (I did some testing), but I'm not sure how it compares to using one on an actual PS5. I don't get any fancy customization options or anything other than the fact I can make the light whatever color I want.
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I tunnel because having less survivors in the match will make my games easier to win.
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For what in particular?
They do ban people for chat violations if reported in-game. You need to submit video via the web site for anything else.
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@skylerbound said:
Spirit mains found a way, nurse mains will as well.
The way I found was to stop playing her at all until a month or two ago.
(Although she was more of a side killer than a main, and I was better at getting kills with Myers than with her.)
@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3309441#Comment_3309441
Then don't play Nurse. You have 29 other killers to choose from.
As a console player, I'm already resolved to never play Nurse, Blight, Huntress, Trickster or Deathslinger, and even Plague is a task sometimes.
I play on PC with a controller, and I've just recently started playing Deathslinger. Can't speak on the others, but he is extremely doable.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/359895/scott-otz-discuss-tunneling-video
A mechanical solution to tunneling is bound to create more problems than it solves.
I disagree with this for the reason brought up in the video: We had a solution, and then it was removed.
DS was an almost perfectly tailored solution to tunnelling with how focused it was on its own purpose. Once the EGC disable came in, it would've been perfect. But then it also got slapped with a 40% nerf on top of that to facilitate a 'shift in meta' from DS to OTR, and that's where everything went downhill.
Everything DS got right, OTR got wrong. DS is way harder to use offensively because the punishment for trying to use it offensively is much higher. OTR, meanwhile, does not stack with the baseline BT that survivors got, and thus does not work against killers that tunnel hard enough. The result is that the situation got worse for everyone: Killers are more likely to get bullied by aggressive use of OTR, while survivors are more likely to get tunnelled because OTR is a worse deterrent.
While a complete, 100% solution to tunnelling is pretty close to impossible, we KNOW that DS works. So just bring that back. Finetune it a bit more.
6.1. was just a disaster.
Who actually uses OTR, though?
I can only recall one game in recent memory where OTR was used "offensively" against me, and that's a bit of a strong word since the survivor in question must have waited 45 seconds to pop out in front of me, probably hurting his team more than he helped.
I'm not sure how much I see it in general since, as you said, hard tunnelers are unlikely to notice it.
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@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3309033#Comment_3309033
If you read my original post, it’s quite clear what my point is.
Okay, fair.
I honestly missed the part where you pointed out that full gen regression perks have problems in chase, which is an excellent point, but anything you said applies to any future meta as much as it does the current one. I ran Ruin/Undying on a lot of killers before that got nerfed, I run Eruption+CoB+Overcharge on a lot of killers now, and if they nerf that, I'll run whatever they replace it with.
There will always be an anti-gen meta. Not having one would make the majority of killers unplayable past the soft cap.
@I_CAME said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3308193#Comment_3308193
They literally said they are going to take a more active approach to making sure a meta gets out of control. See how fast thana got nerfed. Eruption isn't going to make it for four years. It won't even make it past the january update. The videos of people holding games hostage until the time limit expired were the final nail for the gen kick meta.
Holding games hostage? I'm pretty sure it doesn't count as "holding it hostage" if you can still repair the gens. If you're not letting the killer down you, why should the killer let you repair the last gen? It's a two-way street.
Eruption needs downs to work. If the killer spent all game camping a potential 3-gen, then there are four of you alive and unharmed by the time the game really begins, and it's on you if you can't get that gen done. Two of you working on the farthest gens and the other two trading off taking hits will usually do it.
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Yes, but only if you kicked the gen earlier. You have to manually kick a gen for Eruption to apply to it.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3308591#Comment_3308591
Yes and no regarding the lower tier killers. You might need a bit more regression, but quad slowdown and purple/Iri is complete overkill and just teaches killers bad habits on any killer.
Well, to be perfectly honest, I'm finding that the CoB+OC+Eruption meta doesn't work well on killers like Ghostface unless you're running Deadlock along with it, and then you've got no chase perks.
I'm preferring Deadlock/Jolt/PR/STBFL. The gen regression isn't as strong on its own, but you can just focus on chase instead of kicking gens, and STBFL soft counters bodyblocking and DH.
Most of my Ghsotie games are ending in 3 or 4 kills with zero gens left.
Gen-kicking meta does better on Michael and some other M1s for some reason.
@versacefeng said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3308920#Comment_3308920
People already stack other forms of gen defense. Anyways COB and Eruption are in dire need of a change. Two perks shouldn’t be allow players to make games last up to an hour.
Jesus, the tone of the forums on this subject sure has changed since my little break.
Just a couple of months ago, there were entire threads full of people complaining that CoB and Eruption were terrible perks. I was one of the only people arguing that they were viable.
If those perks need a nerf, then they need to give Dead Hard the treatment the devs gave Ruin. One perk shouldn't be able to make every chase last an extra minute. After all, it's currently in the same place as Eruption in the sense that it's S-tier, but completely counterable and only causes trouble for the other side if you outplay them with it.
@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3309010#Comment_3309010
Lmao ok buddy. With multiple thousand hours in the game, I don’t think it’s a skill issue.
When the gens are within spitting distance and they will do nothing but run back and forth kicking gens, you will not be able to break the 3 gen. Especially on a killer like demo that places portals on top of the gens.
Those 4 stacked perks most definitely are not slower regression than anything we could put out.
You saying this just shows you’re most likely the kind of killer that cannot survive matches without 4 regression perks. Feel bad for you son.
Camping a 3-gen from the start of the game was a strategy long before the 6.1.0 meta changes.
For the sake of clarity, what are you arguing here? That there shouldn't be any good killer gen regression perks at all?