gantes
gantes
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The only change I can see the devs make to Billy other than add-ons is making him take the same time as Demo and Oni to break pallets. They most likely won't change anything else.
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One thing that's also VERY important: DS needs to stop working in locker grabs.
DS can be annoying overall but the biggest offender is the locker invulnerability it provides. It's not fun nor interactive nor skillful to just jump in a locker and stare at the killer while they can do nothing, especially if it's paired with Head On or Inner Strength. I feel like it's the only survivor perk that's imbalanced right now.
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Honestly just work on the early game.
I think map size would be the best way to look at it.
Once you start getting downs the game slows down. That`s pressure 101, and that's why early game slowdown perks are the most used. Because perks like Pop and Thanatophobia only start working when you're already applying pressure.
If the killers' earlygame were better no one would even need Ruin. I feel like either making some maps smaller or fixing spawns so that survivors don't spawn on the edge of maps often would make it ok.
I know the importance of the early game can be overrated sometimes (it's entirely possible to stomp a game after a horrible early game) but it feels awful to have to concede gens or just have them pop before you can phisically get there.
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Smaller maps.
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Aw I'd love to be a raccoon whisperer too :)
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The main problem is definitely 3 gen situations becoming impossible to escape, and I don't like the idea of making complex changes like the one you suggested that are situation-specific.
Hex: Ruin will be a niche perk. It will be scary in killers with map pressure that can force people off gens. Billy will probably be the best user. The main problem is that it's becoming a completely different perk with a different function, it should be a new perk altogether and Ruin should still be something that works for the early game imo.
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@johnmwarner said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/982918#Comment_982918
So you’re saying four people changed their names and profiles to impersonate BHVR?
Then Monto, who is good friends with dog whisperers posted it on YouTube without confirming they were in fact BHVR and risk any sort of fallout from that?
Wow that is a lot of mental gymnastics I hope you stretch first.
Dog whisperers? Aw I wanted to be one. Always wanted to talk with my fuzzy friends.
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@johnmwarner said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/982853#Comment_982853
They don’t have to be good, but they should have a basic understanding. The fact that they go down in 5 seconds because they run AWAY from a pallet means they’re basing their decisions on that short of a chase. Even a bad survivor who camps pallets or drops them instantly would have lasted longer.
Game developers don't even need to play the game for all I care as long as they have a strong analysis team and receive feedback from good players.
That's a different problem.
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@johnmwarner said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/982820#Comment_982820
When their post said specifically they tested it out in house and are happy with the changes, then actually yes their gameplay ability does matter.
When they said they tested it in house with multiple guests, including people with thousand of hours in the game, it doesn't.
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@Actually_Jesus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/982814#Comment_982814
When I faced Peanits and his crew, they were all purple ranks. Survivor rank isn't an indicator of skill so much as it is time played. A potato survivor can be immersed and get to rank 1.
That being said - I'm not saying they are bad...I'm just saying that if these are the ones "play testing" the game...well, it does explain why they balance for lower rank players.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/982820#Comment_982820
Being good at the game is one thing - and no, it doesn't matter. Understanding the game is another, and that does matter. If they truly understood the game, there would have been some due diligence done on the ruin nerf instead of just nerfing it before seeing why it's so heavily used.
Yeah I agree with that. It just tilts me to oblivion when people say "DEVS BAD IN GAME WHY THEY DECIDE BALANCE" like dude, I'm absolutely certain many people that are great at several games should never even step close to a balance team meeting.
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There's this common misconception that people need to be good at the game they made for their decisions to be valid.
No, they don't. They absolutely don't. A lot of great players in many games have absolutely awful takes on game balance, and a lot of bad players are good analysts. What they need to do is 1. get good analysts and 2. appropriately listen to feedback from reasonable members of the community. No one needs to be good at a game to design it. In fact,I don't even think it's healthy for you to continuosly remain so involved with your job at home.
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@Actually_Jesus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/982797#Comment_982797
See, and I don't get that many DS'. So I'll consider myself the lucky one I suppose, ha
Yeah that's the thing, I see people claim everyone runs DS but I very rarely get more than two people running it a game and a lot of games don't even have it. It's still more used than most survivor perks in my games though.
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@Actually_Jesus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/982788#Comment_982788
You'd be surprised, actually. It's use has been on the steady rise ever since it became the only counter to "undetectable".
I must play like 10 rank 1 killer games a day and I see it as much as Urban Evasion or Kindred. Even immersed survivors I see tend to have Urban Evasion+Sprint Burst+Iron Will more than Spine Chill. But maybe your experience is different.
In my experience survivor meta is DS, BT, Sprint Burst, Dead Hard, Adrenaline and Unbreakable, even though I must say I see a lot more perk variety in survivors than in killers.
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@Actually_Jesus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/982771#Comment_982771
I was only really listing meta perks.
Except Spine Chill isn`t meta though...?
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@Actually_Jesus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/981876#Comment_981876
Survivors are welcome to ditch DS, BT, Exhaustion perks, and spinechill if they also want to get rid of their training wheels.
Oh wait - it's only bad when killers do it. Deal with it. Life as a survivor is about to get really unfun.
My head hurts to see Spine Chill listed as a crutch perk for survivors
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@Coder said:
Otz is a great killer, but I've read people saying "oh, well, but how does Otz win without ruin then?". He also struggles without ruin, A LOT. This is the kind of game all killers will be facing from now on, since you can't tunnel (DS) to do your objectives faster and Adrenaline will still be a frustrating thing for killers.
Also, you can't expect every killer to be like Otz, that's the problem with DBD, for survivor you have to be able to hold M1, but as killer you have to be a Pro, 5k+ hours into the game, know all mind games, know all details of your killer, or else f*ck off and go play civilization, cuz you're bad.
I've seen him struggling a lot unless he faces potatoes, I've also seen him panicking in most trapper games "OMG... this is bad, this is bad..." until he gets a little lucky and snowballs, because you can do that with trapper, but not with other killers like pig, doc or clown...
Not having an early game mechanic with all pallets up in maps where loops are super safe (like McMillan or Autohaven) and 3 guys working on gens while you're chasing the first one gives survivors an insane head start.
I mean, you're listing Autohaven and McMillan as hard killer maps. Are you sure you play the game at a high enough level where not having Ruin will affect you that much?
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As survivor the only important perk that doens't come already with the base game is DS. No need to even buy extra characters for survivor perks. You can easily make a very good build with Meg, David, Bill, Nea...
Not having BBQ or Ruin hurts as killer, but Ruin you can get with in game currency and there are quite a few decent perks with the base game too. You can also make quite a good build without BBQ, decent tracking perks come with the game too.
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@johnmwarner said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/981282#Comment_981282
I think that’s the key, a large percentage of the red rank survivors don’t belong there and I count myself as one of them.
I am not a great looper at all, I play smart though and make good saves, I play efficiently and hit maybe half of my ruin checks. I probably belong in purple ranks?!?
The thing is with the stupid emblem system you almost never actually depip so getting to rank 1 is just a matter of playing enough, doing okay to maintain your rank, and getting an occasional lucky or good game to pip up.
Then problem is players don’t want to admit they don’t belong in red ranks, don’t want to admit they aren’t good enjoy to play against good mind gaming killers, won’t admit how much they hurt their team not being able to do gens and wasting five minutes urban evading the map for totems.
But it's the same for killers. How many killers in red ranks don't know when to drop chase? When to slug? When to patrol hooks or commit to chasing?
The decision making for most red rank killers is atrocious, just like the survivor gameplay. That's why ranks can't be taken seriously in this game and that's why there's no point making Gatekeeper "more forgiving" when literally everything else about the emblem system is garbage.
EDIT: I see what you mean perfectly because I'm rank 1 in both sides and as of right now I think I deserve it but I've been there for months and the first time I got it I was absolutely horrendous at this game, and stayed that way for a while, still mantaining red ranks.
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@BadMrFrosty said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/981134#Comment_981134
What about those of us that think the scoring system is complete garbage and makes zero sense? Some of us don't get satisfaction because we get a shiny button, some of us just want a chance to PLAY THE VIDEO GAME FOR MORE THAN 5 MINUTES.
But hey, what do I know? I only bought the game and spent way too much time playing it.
Yeah I'm really baffled they chose to address Gatekeeper instead of, you know, making sure killers don't have to just concede gens with no reasonable counterplay sometimes.
Or fixing the rest of the emblem system. I don't really give a damn about it until there's some resemblance of consistency between different killers. The game telling me I win as Legion while killing no one and had a draw as Billy while having a 4k makes no sense. They should refrain from changing OK parts of the emblem system until the rest of it makes a little bit of sense at least.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/981047#Comment_981047
Typically red ranks on both sides- little behind on killer at the moment since I was out of town since the reset. All in all, I went ahead and checked my stats and it turns out I play killer about 53.44% of the time.
I do agree with what you're saying, although I do think we're talking about a best case scenario. You and I may power through it, but to give an example, what if the other guy is playing with a couple of friends who are newer to the game and haven't been practicing skill checks for the last few years? What quite often happens is that first generator will go off, but then nothing else happens as the rest of the team is running around searching for a totem. Then I have to either decide if I should continue doing generators by myself or go cleanse the totem so the others will help out.
I wouldn't base the entire thing on a single scenario, there's far too many variables. I can only speak from my personal experience, and I've had plenty of teammates who can't handle it (after over three years).
My thoughts are about the same as yours in terms of emblems, though. As someone who doesn't use Ruin (or any slowdown perks) myself, I definitely feel it. Thankfully there's also a change to address that aspect, so if someone's concern is their emblem score, it should be lessened at the same time as this change.
I mean, when matchmaking works properly red rank killers go against good survivors who can hit most skill checks.
I agree with people are saying in this one. I think Ruin should eventually get changed, but I also think survivors who can't hit great skill checks don't belong in red ranks, as much as killers who can't apply pressure.
Unless we're talking about keeping the horrid matchmaking logic that pairs one red rank+3 yellow ranks vs a red rank killer, which is just a bigger problem than most things in this game.
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Honestly NOED becoming meta at any given time is just a sign the game is in a bad spot duration wise.
Good killers don't use NOED because they generally prefer planning their win condition around not letting all the gens get completed. If you can no longer play for that win condition somewhat reliably it's just bad.
Besides, NOED being popular is even worse than Ruin for new players. New players don't know totem spots and generally don't cleanse dull totems. The chances of them looking for Ruin while the game is still manageable are much bigger than looking for NOED while they're exposed. Lower rank survivors will just end up leaving 1-2 people behind every single game which is just crappy gameplay imo.
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@SteelDragon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/977695#Comment_977695
so you want the way to win be, tunnel, slug, camp all hooks?
If you can play nice and win it means it's too easy to win playing like a dickhead.
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@SteelDragon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/977624#Comment_977624
yes I know that but over sluggin means no pipping, less hooks for everyone etc. with ruin I liked to play nice like, no tunneling or camping. low slugging and I try to 3 hook everyone. now I wont be doing that after the ruin nerf, similar to what otz does
If killers can afford to "play nice" and still win then there's a problem
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Yeah ofc. A lot of the playerbase is really young, you can't expect more from kids/teenagers.
It's a very human response to be petty and try to ruin things for others when something annoys you instead of dealing with it or just leaving. Especially among people who aren't really that mature yet.
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@SteelDragon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/976233#Comment_976233
he slugs, ALOT and some games no matter how well he does he still loses
Knowing when to slug is one of the marks of a good player in this game. If you don't then that's on you.
And no matter how good you are you should still lose some games lol. That's how videogames work.
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Seems like nothing. Oh well.
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Well, this has been marked as BHVR read. Let us wait and hope.
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/977224#Comment_977224
You can write this down, if a dev answers your comment. It will be "we know of this issue, which is why we are reworking the maps, we did badham and now lery" and that will be all they'll say on this
You're probably right. But again, there's only one way to know for sure.
If people focused on having civilized discussions with the devs instead of making posts calling them incompetent and ranting about how awful the game is (yes, even outside of the Ruin fiasco, that's how the forums ALWAYS are) maybe we'd get more answers. I wouldn't feel eager to discuss things here at all if I were a dev.
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Of course most people didn't. It's easier to complain than to test things.
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Imagine being a dev in this game
Reworking DS
Nerfing MoM
Making fast vaults harder
Nerfing Balanced Landing
Giving the biggest killer buff in the history of the game with the Freddy rework
Releasing 4 killers that are objectively better than half the killers in the game
Nerfing instaheals
Releasing a reworked and a new map that are more favorable to killer than the majority of maps in the game
All in the span of a year
Just to come here and see one frustrated boi saying they're survivor biased with a bunch of other frustrated bois coming and agreeing
Maybe game develloping isn't my dream job after all. Being a ######### neurosurgeon must be more gratifying and less frustrating and infuriating
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Well maybe we can just take off our tinfoil hats and realize every single game needs new player retention?
And old players are MUCH more likely to buy battle passes and skins than new players.
I mean, we kinda have a few reasons to get mad at the devs already, no need to make up new ones.
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@Endstille said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/977208#Comment_977208
Not at all, just pointing it out that he is not super weak unlike other killers.
Your analysis lacks nuance.
His stats are like that because stats mean nothing at the level Otz and other streamers play. Most of the playerbase is not that good at the game, even at red ranks.
You can't argue that and then disagree that Freddy is the best killer in the game, for example, which he very clearly isn't,
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@JC316 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/977121#Comment_977121
I've already decided my plan. Quitting the game 2 weeks after this change goes live. Going to use ever mori, tombstone, and ultra rare addon I've got and play as brutal as possible. Hard tunneling, camping, slugging. I'm going to make the game as miserable as possible for as many people as possible, then buy Last Year, it looks like a better game anyway.
good for you
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/977214#Comment_977214
I think he's saying that if they ever address good complaints (like the one you have here) they'll just avoid the main question.
I mean, we'll only find out by making them address it won't we?
All I've seen in the past from the devs about it is that "variance is good for the game", which doesn't apply here. Variance can be great until it starts messing too much with game balance and having the objectives work the same way in vastly different maps makes no sense. That's what I want them to answer.
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@Murcielago said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/977171#Comment_977171
Expect in a another discussion a dev told the op a polite way to say git gud when they asked about why people use ruin
It doesn't change absolutely anything about my point so what are you even saying
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@Endstille said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/977010#Comment_977010
No he does not, beat him while one of us was disconnected and he had to play against only 3.
Btw it is funny that trapper is considered low tier, if you actually look up the old data sheets from 2018 i think, you see that there is hag+trapper having the highest killrates (across all matches, dont remember the third tbh).
So we should take kill stats at face value and reach the conclusion that the game is killer sided?
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@PistolTimb said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/977125#Comment_977125
Listen, man. I agree with you. But the devs have shown time and again they will ignore feedback and discussions as much as possible.
There is literally no reason to trust they'll fix maps in a timely manner. Springwood for example got FIVE GODDAMNN variants, when 2 would have been fine. Then 6 months later they rework one of the smallest maps in the game (I like how it looks so I won't trash it too much). At this rate maps like haddonfield, asylum, Thompson's House and red forest will remain exactly the same for upwards of six months, likely years.
I mean, yeah, they haven't commented so far. Doesn't mean I'll stop tagging them in these discussions.
I won't just give up on trying to make the game better.
Eventually if people stopped making doomsday discussions about quitting the game and started talking about things like this and demanding answers maybe we'd get an answer.
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@Murcielago said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/977125#Comment_977125
They knew this issues before hand this was a problem before the oni came out that's one map changed and a new map without working on the issue
The last huge map released was Temple of Purgation.
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I mean,sure,let's not have a productive discussion ever, let's shittalk the devs and not solve anything apparently that's what people are going for today
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@Murcielago said:
What do you mean just because some survivors can fix a whole gen before you make it over there doesn't mean anything
So your opponent completing 20% of their win condition before you start actively playing the game doesn't mean anything?
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@Synfralidro said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/976802#Comment_976802
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/117488/designer-notes-doctor-gatekeeper-hex-ruin
Exhibit A that the devs prioritize survivors and the game is actually still quite heavily survivor sided.
And btw, i love the generic "git gud" response from people when they don't want to accept reality.
You're the one not accepting reality. This game is more balanced than it ever was. You can't say it's "become" a bully simulator when it trends in the opposite direction. The only explanations are 1. you're a new player or 2. you got worse as killer at a higher pace than survivors got nerfed over the years. Nothing else.
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I mean I know it's anectodal but there's no survivor perk I see on more than 50% of survivors,not even DS or BT. Survivor perk builds vary a lot more than killer perk builds at high ranks,
Not to say I oppose a DS nerf though because I don't. I just don't like comparing two things when they're fundamentally different.
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Or maybe you just reduce the bigger maps without making the game fundamentally different on bigger maps?
No reason to half ass a solution when there's an obvious one.
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All streams I've seen today consisted of people saying Doc is better than he was before even with the bugs he currently has but yeah guys go off devs bad
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@EverflowingRiver said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/976959#Comment_976959
I'm talking about the last 2-3 legion nerfs, not the original one that was needed. He has been buried deep which was uncalled for.
Every reputable player I've seen talk about it has said it was a net buff but ok
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@EverflowingRiver said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/976072#Comment_976072
I thought you were done talking?
@Huff I called someone toxic directly first, fair enough, but it was in response to someone else calling the killer community toxic.
@gantes you are obviously trolling. All killer nerfs were needed? Legion didn't deserve what happened to them. And it's not questionable behavior to inform the devs that there are consequences to their actions.
Sorry, I'm talking about the nerfs, like Nurse and Spirit had,which were deserved. Not about the Legion adjustments to make sure they didn't just down survivors without counterplay,which were even more deserved.
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@aderpymuffin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/976781#Comment_976781
You must be a troll or something. The community has been split on both of those changes. Many were not happy with the exhaustion perks and the weakness of the snares, but in both instances there was a different side (an even side) voicing the differing opinion.
This. Is. Not. Even. The other side is absurdly small in number. The popular opinion (and I mean really popular, like I've never seen this much outrage from the community) Is that this change is a terrible one. I've been with the game since launch, and I've been in Reddit since it was open, back when it was entitled survivors complaining about how bugs kept getting them killed. I have never seen backlash from the community anywhere close to this scale.
And the idea that the devs should ignore the backlash because "Wahhh change!" is more absurd then you using the exhaustion nerf as an example to support your claim.
Sorry if I'm reasonable enough not to jump on the hate train for something that has been up for testing for like 6 hours. Real troll that I am.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/976798#Comment_976798
Why do you think numbers EVER go down? because people who own the game are not playing it. Since you can't "un-own" the game, new players will ALWAYS skew growth without having any sort of metric to differentiate them vs an existing userbase. For numbers to wax and wane THAT drastically means that either many existing players are dropping out for long periods of time (or permanently,) or that the amount of new players is minuscule. Guess which one my money is on.
As for december, numbers went down vs November. This was in a month that actually had a new DLC release as well.
Wow, who would say that games that rely on people constantly playing them have PERFECTLY NORMAL ups and downs in their player count? Refer to LITERALLY ANY multiplayer ongoing game. It would be concerning if it didn't have fluctuations.
No game grows non stop for all eternity. The fact that this game is many years old and still somehow growing shows that it's still a great game.
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@Synfralidro said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/976774#Comment_976774
I guess so. People really did buy it for the bully simulator game it has become. Thank you for confirming my suspicions.
This game is not a bully simulator LUL. It has never been less survivor sided, objectively speaking. You're probably just not that good as killer.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/976744#Comment_976744
you already provided it. The numbers wax and wane pretty heavily in retlation to DLC releases. Look at July and October for example, those numbers plummeted. December didn't do so hot either.
No matter how you analyze the data there's no meaningful drop in the playerbase consistently speaking. A few months were better, a few were worse than 2018, but the game still trended upwards.
How come December didn't do so hot? It was still one of the best months of the year for the game and A LOT better than Dec 2018. Are we even looking at the same charts?