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@Little_Kitten said:
All the people who criticize the nurse have absolutely no legitimacy to do so until they:
1) perfected their methods of playing against her
2) play her in order to understand her mechanics, and how to get around them
Until then, all their words are nothing more or less than endless and redundant whining.
Next topic.
I play her consistently and know how to play against her. Now that according to your own comment I have the right to express my opinion:
Her range add-ons most specifically and her possibility to stack slowdowns and use one shot perks is broken and should be changed.
Next?
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@Crowman said:
There was an addon that did precisely this and it got changed, because no one used it.
Nurse doesn't really need a rework tho. Her power is largely fine and there's a few addon of hers that are fairly problematic while the rest are just not good.
^^
This as usual. Giving her old torn bookmark basekit even with 110 speed would be horrible, there was a reason it was a meme addon, it's because even with 3 blink her power was pretty much useless anywhere, because it's not like blight that works "instantly" but needs to be charged and released.
Her basekit is fine
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How would this work with hunted grounds? People would instantly know it's HG because it would be lit already, or the totem would remain unlit until cleansed, but people wouldn't get baited into cleansing it
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2999658#Comment_2999658
Why is it a bad take? It literally doesn’t impact any of the actual in-game mechanics. Nor does it stop people playing with their friends, which is what some people genuinely think should happen. That’s a bad take.
Giving a BP bonus is a minuscule reward for the extra difficulty and stress that playing against SWF can bring. Also yes, killers who play well do get more BP. As they should. But generally whenever I have a good game playing either side the killer will get between 28,000-32,000 BP on average whilst the survivors who played well can get around 22-25K- it’s really not that much of a difference.
Please explain why killers getting more BP is bad for the game. There’s literally no reason you can give outside of you possibly thinking it’s unfair and both sides should be rewarded equally. Which is laughable if that’s the case.
There's no extra stress coming from "playing vs a swf", because most of the times you're not even against a swf. People just like to blame their losses on that.
And again, Killers ALREADY get more bp.
It's a bad take because most people playing in a group aren't going to perform much better than same-level survivors placed together by match making. There's no reason to reward killers on ghosts they come up with on their own. If you can't handle the "stress" of playing killer, don't play it. Simple as that
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@[Deleted User] said:
As making fundamental changes to the maps and killers would probably take a while, they could start by just giving killers a massive BP multiplier based on how many SWF’s are in the lobby.
Four person squad? Enjoy 4x the BP. Two pairs? Same thing. Three person and a solo? 3x BP for you. If incentives to play a certain role at certain times (and let’s be honest, we all know this means killer) are supposedly coming then the devs might as well throw this in there as well.
Obviously it’s not a proper fix but at least it’s a reward for playing against more unfavourable odds. And you’re not nerfing SWF so no one can complain from the other side.
Why would the side that already gets the highest amount of blood points be rewarded even more just for playing?
Again, what a bad take
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Where are them kill/escape ratios so I can draw my totally correct (you guys are wrong) conclusions
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@Norhc said:
No but they should get some debuff.
@イエローミント said:
Apply debuff to swf. The debuff should be a content that increases in effect a little bit in proportion to the number of people in the swf.
If you really just "enjoy playing with other friends", you should be able to play in the swf even if you are subjected to some debuff.
There should also be a separate reward and disclosure of swf members to the solo q and killer players who played together after that game.
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
No and no? What kind of game punishes people for just playing together?
This was suggested like 74938483 times on this forum and it never ceases to amaze me how people don't realize how bad this take is. Do you even have friends?
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
Absolutely not.
Solo buff and killer buff in the same patch. Also, fix matchmaking. Both of those will help massively.
I honestly believe that solo buffs intended as more information tools won't help solo queue in any way whatsoever
The problem with solo queue is not the lack of information, it's the fact that you can get chased for 30 minutes straight and the most you'll get will be 1 gen to pop. But when you start doing your own gen, you won't even reach half of its completion that the killer has 1 or 2 downs already
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Just a reminder that Haddonfield basically ONLY HAS windows to work with
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Here I am again pointing out that her basekit is perfectly fine and her problems come from the fact that she has busted add-ons (range) and her power works too well with perks that would otherwise be mostly fine
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2997221#Comment_2997221
I wanted to try it, because blindness doesn't prevent your aura from being shown at all like distortion or off the record. The killer just can't see it.
I'm a little disappointed, because it could have been a neat synergy that wouldn't even be that strong since it'll only give you 1 free read.
I honestly believe that object was overly nerfed. It should still have synergy with aura hiding perks, which it doesn't anymore (with it's current effect obviously)
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@Zozzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2996308#Comment_2996308
To be fair, Lerys is basically an auto loss without addons. everything else though, you can switch the upstairs off and just coast along.
I don't find Lerys particularly difficult either, unless against extremely immersed survivors. The chases in there don't bother me.
@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2996308#Comment_2996308
The new map is huge. But anyways. Yes it is a DBD wide problem of maps being huge and aweful. It's not a nurse issue. But my point is. She needs range for now. Until they finally get their ######### together with map design(unlikely). If maps someday get better. Then yes, range should be changed or removed. But for now. Absolutely not.
You're using a word I really don't like, "need". She doesn't *need*, she just feels better (which i totally agree with)
@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2996373#Comment_2996373
The apologists get me more. "I play Nurse well with no add-ons, on every map, so clearly she is broken and needs a nerf and needs to be even more unapproachable for anyone who wants to learn her."
I'll be reaching triple digits on her soon, while actively working very hard to get better on her. Where are my free-wins without add-ons on Mother's Dwelling?!
What gets me is people who refuse to acknowledge how broken she is while using said add-ons and certain perk combinations because maybe they're just not that good with her but it feels good to get those cheesy 4ks
Makes you really think like "I'm actually a god at this game" amirite
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2996195#Comment_2996195
But. They are. Simply because of most of the maps in existence. Nurses map traversal is god aweful without some sort of range.
You can't have Badhams, coldwinds, groaning, garden of joy, Ormond, etc etc. And justify removing range add ons
All that will happen at that point. Is all of these "god nurses" forum members supposedly face daily. Will start camping and tunneling way more. Because it will no longer be worth traversing the map
But they remove one of the most important counterplays nurse has which is building distance, giving her a substantial advantage she simply doesn't need being the strongest killer available. It's the same argument with alchemist ring, the best you can do is get hit after blight consumed all stacks and build distance. Alchemist ring removes that. Or with spirits DCB
I do agree certain maps are awful but they are universally awful, it's not a nurse problem, which already has one of the strongest powers in the game, and the new map didn't seem bad to me at all
Also I don't understand your point about god nurses, which simply don't exist
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2996089#Comment_2996089
Both are fine though;
Range add-ons are definitely not fine
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@Bennett_They1Them said:
I'd want them to try to make unhooks safer; either by using BT, taking a hit, or taking a BT hit after being unhooked.
Bothering to try to unhook would be nice too, dying on first hook with 4 gens left while not being camped is obnoxious.
Generators.
It's mind blowing how I take the first chase on purpose multiple times, go down way after the 80 seconds checkpoint, and see at most one single gen pop, people walking around, sometimes someones in the basement. But then none of them is able to extend a chase long enough for me to complete my gen.
To add salt to the wound, I usually go check the recording of the game as I run GeForce in background. I'm like "maybe it felt longer that it actually was?", but no, it was indeed a long chase, usually circumscribed around a specific area of the map, and still a lot of times people decide not to touch gens. A game against a sadako the other day in the new map comes to mind.
I hate solo queue. No amount of information sharing buffs will ever help how bad randoms are
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Wasn't there a tournament a while ago where there were no rules whatsoever and both parties could bring whatever they want, and results were surprisingly "balanced"?
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2994806#Comment_2994806
If nurse can have her power at start why oni can't they can change that is not as long and they could change that survivors would not spawn together so then at least oni would probably get only one down with it or two in best case scenario. But it would mean oni would get his power lot sooner back as those survivors would be then injured when they are rescued. Artist is ranked better killer than oni that needs to change and oni should S tier we need more killers than just blight and nurse who are strong. Oni is most fun to play agains't of these two and more fair.
Because nurse's power is mobility + downside (fatigue) and not mobility + instadown + literally no downside???
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@Zozzy said:
Now do it basekit with no addons.
? What does that even mean, nurse with no add-ons is already strong enough
The add-ons (certain) just make her extremely broken (edit: and certain perks combinations)
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2993910#Comment_2993910
The last good perk survivors got was CoH, which was busted. Nerfed twice, still pretty good. But before that? Game has gone years without anything able to shake the meta on the survivor side.
I think the problem with this, and the reason I'm hopeful for the meta shakeup, is because the Survivor meta is just so balls to the walls overpowered (COH, Dead Hard) or corrects a fundamental issue within the game which should've been fixed at base (BT, DS). With basekit changes being made and nerfs being given to the most busted things, I feel like we'll be seeing a lot less perks ran for necessity and because of just how much better they are, and it should hopefully be more like the killer meta which is substantially more diverse. Like, Overzealous could be good if Prove Thyself wasn't there. Boon: Dark Theory could be useful as a loop extender if Dead Hard didn't do it's job but 60x better. Why run Off The Record when you could use Iron Will?
Yeah, I totally agree with that. But that's what we need, a change to some base game mechanics _along_ with the meta shake up
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
Dead Hard is interactive? Yeah when someone uses Dead Hard for Distance:tm: and there's nothing I can do except watch them chain 2 tiles they have no business ever chaining because I played correctly is so interactive, I adore having absolutely zero of my choices matter because E to Outplay.
i mean, imagine if Hope gave you 30% movespeed for 10 seconds the next time you enter chase instead of 5% movespeed over 2 minutes. imagine if self care healed you in 6 seconds, but it spawned a few healing herbs that you have to find in order to use it.
Then Self-Care would be either godtier or awful, depending on RNG, and Hope would absoluetly cripple 110 killers moreso than current. Nothing says interactive gameplay like "Your killer's base movement speed which you have no agency in controlling is simply too slow for this perk."
another thing: why is it that you try to balance the entire game around perks with a terrible design, instead of changing the game mechanics? for example you could make dead hard basekit and give killers a two combo hit. like lunge + small area slash after it, or two regular hits for when you get bodyblocked. the entire game would be more interactive with juking and whatnot. it's not possible that a game in 2022 is so clunky, that survivors can swarm you and all you can do is hit one at a time while they take turns tanking the hit and you have 2 seconds cd in between all of these.
I genuinely would prefer current DBD gameplay to this. Absolutely, without a doubt. Bodyblocking is easy to deal with in most, if not all, situations provided you can play it tactically, making it substantially more interactive than basekit Dead Hard which can be used for distance and a two-combo lunge rewarding players who can't aim and doing nothing to compensate for the fact you've made the most commonly used surivivor perk in the game base kit with no nerfs whatsoever.
Not a great idea.
arent killers supposed to be a threat? the real threat here is a table between the killer and the survivor or simply standing still in group. it's honesly pathetic.
So you think looping and bodyblocking is unhealthy for the game, but Dead Hard and COH (perks which famously create very fun gameplay experiences for killers everywhere and have no complaints about them at all) are perfectly healthy for the game and encourage interactive gameplay? Because I don't see it.
also let me be more clear: i dont think all the perks i mentioned are meta because they're the best (some of them are, but not all), they're meta because they're designed in a way that they're fun to use and you notice their value. what i mean is, that dead hard isn't necessarily that much stronger than any other exhaustion perk. if spint burst was the interactive one instead, like requiring you to QTE shift, it would be the meta one. however there are also good designed perks that aren't meta like deception.
Head On is common cited as one of the most fun and interactive perks in the game, offering ample counterplay on both sides and giving survivors a very good reward (3 second stun) for succeeding in using it, but rewarding killers with a free hit if they play around it. It's very well designed IMHO, and yet it isn't meta because it isn't strong.
META is an acronym and it stands for "Most Efficient Tactics Available" or "Most Effective Tactics Available" depending on who you ask. In DBD, efficiency is effectiveness so it doesn't really matter. Perks are meta because of their efficiency in gameplay and effectiveness in allowing one to win.
So yes, perks are meta because they're the strongest in the game.
anyway, i guess the moral of the story is that i really have low if nonexistant expectations for the upcoming perk rework, especially considering that just now they released haddie+yoichi with the most useless, niche, and boring perks ever made. the people who created those perks are the same working on the reworked ones, keep in mind.
They also released Sadako with 2 excellently designed perks (Call Of Brine and Scourge Hook: Floods of Rage) and Dredge with 2 very strong perks (locker reveal and pallet break).
Overall, I think I put it best in a previous comment of mine:
"I didn't think I'd see Dead Hard being healthy for the game as a take today but here we are."
Just something to add on the last point you made. I feel this is an issue: killers get so many good perks most patches, like a lot of stuff able to shake their meta or almost meta (powerful aura reading). The last good perk survivors got was CoH, which was busted. Nerfed twice, still pretty good. But before that? Game has gone years without anything able to shake the meta on the survivor side.
The point is that without base game changes I don't see a lot of hope on the survivor side meta.
And if the perk overhaul comes with just nerfs to "second chances" and "slowdowns", we will most likely just see another upsurge in tunneling and camping just like with coh
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I only used one pride charm and nothing else on everyone, now i swapped it everywhere with the pride birb
One charm is enough
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@ShinobuSK said:
I personally find the most fun way of playing dbd. Chill and not stressful like killer is.
Quite the opposite for me. Killer is a lot less stressful than survivor
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If your profile is open, anyone can comment on it regardless of the privacy settings in their profiles. So I guess it is their right, and you're giving it to them
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@Marigoria said:
Update: I was able to lithe away to another locker when he was looking away
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/2DFP7XABLV7B/20220611114128-1.jpg
Ok wait for exhaustion to be over and lithe to yet another locker
Let's see how many you'll be able to enter
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2992247#Comment_2992247
The Nurse is the only broken killer in the game. You can't reduce map sizes for killers if you have killers that can teleport from one side of a small map to the other to down someone and teleport right back to the hooked survivor to re-down them.
On small maps, the Nurse is literally everywhere. Her kill rate skyrockets on maps like that.
So killers like Trapper are stuck having to deal with large maps because that's how BHVR balances Nurse, by keeping those large maps around.
I disagree that nurse per se is problematic rather her strongest add-ons, just like blight's, add too much to her basekit and should be reworked/heavily nerfed
But well even my stance according to these forums is heresy so whatever
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If you buy a new killer, its personal MMR won't be 0 obviously because you're not playing the game for the first time. It'll be averaged and slightly lower than your other killers MMR.
That being said, especially in the evening there are a lot more survivor players because more people are out of work/school and they obviously want to socialize and play with friends. Therefore, queues are longer and the matchmaker has to give them a trial sooner or later.
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Idk man I did the triple blink nurse grab with pre buff torn bookmark, and it didn't take that many games
Left for dead though...
Also kek for listing the doc one as difficult
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Fire up gamer POGGIES
Trickster gamer POGGIESn't ..
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Gotta be honest, it _is_ an easy map to win on as killer. But having to break 2 mb walls + like 3 on the town side + shack one sometimes is extremely dull and makes me hate playing in that map like always
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Didn't read the message but replying to the title as far as I know there's more than one single person at bhvr, I'd say there are at least 4 people
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Spicy takes early in the morning I like it
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2988749#Comment_2988749
Nah I'd be for it because all the sweats would flock to casual leaving ranked as, funnily, the less competitive mode. Because we both know that people would just go to casual for easy wins bringing the most busted ######### possible
Fair point tbh
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
The first 3 seem like skill issues tbh. Looking around yourself and paying attention solves most of the problems.
Other 2 suggestions are solid though
Rank/casual mode isn't solid because the game per se is not competitive and nobody would stop tryhards to queue casual and ruin the fun for everyone else (as they do already)
Also 1 behavior seems unable to develop an actual MMR system and 2 the problem of queue times they mentioned by making it stricter is real and nobody wants that in a casual game
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I honestly can't tell the difference between all of them, they all look identical
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@Carth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2988035#Comment_2988035
I would argue this should be solved with a base game change/not a perk. However, I do have to ask why should the survivor team have a 'chance' to save that is pretty normalized when they are at such a heavy disadvantage. Or in other words "Why should the survivors have a non-rare chance to save and both get out when its 2v1 and 1 is on hook in EGC"
Because the chance is low anyway. Most of the times, the survivor that goes for the unhook knows it's going to be a trade anyway, unless the killer ######### up badly. You said non rare, but it is rare. Why should the killer feel that they're entitled to one kill no matter what? If they mess up the trade and both survivors escape, that's on the killer
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Does residual manifest work with object?
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2985449#Comment_2985449
Need to push back against this: You can watch Nurse streamers (All the way up to Supaalf) who regularly display shock at their blinks getting swallowed up for no good reason. Map absolutely matters to Nurse:
- RPD
- Leary's
- Ormond (Size)
- Mothers Dwelling (Size + Infinite Tree LOS)
- ANY MAP WITH CORN
The list goes on, and Nurses definitely have to think about how they play depending on the map. Again, all the way up to the higher echelons of play.
The only problematic map you mentioned is rpd. And that's for literally every killer and survivor. Not even lery's is that bad for nurse
@woundcowboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2985686#Comment_2985686
Completely wrong. You’re mad because she isn’t a free win like the rest of the cast.
She's a free win for the killer as soon as she stacks 3 slowdowns and uses decent addons. Same problem, opposite side
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@GoshJosh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2983945#Comment_2983945
That’s not happening. Not anymore since the nerf.
That was a response to the hypothetical situation, I know how ds works
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@GoshJosh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2983501#Comment_2983501
I respectfully disagree. So a killer is supposed to just sit there and watch a survivor self-heal in their face to completion, then attack? Survivors are not guaranteed the privilege of being healed immediately after an unhook.
No, the killer can down them, pick them up and risk/eat the ds too
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Blight's hug bug
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Don't miss it at all, neither as killer nor as survivor.
I don't even think it looked good. The portal room was cool, but the whole rest of the map looked like a ps2 game
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Pyramid Head
"PH-sama I'm scared of sleeping alone what if the Oni arrives please sleep in the bed with me uwi"
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@lav3 said:
I mean this forum users hate Nurse saying she is "uncounterable".
And hate Blight because nowadays many people play him and say his addons are "busted"
Now Trickster? Do any of you think he's near either of them?
Boring to go against? What a lame excuse.
What about saying nerf all killer with that logic? Seriously.
What's your point even? Oni, huntress and plague are strong killers too and nobody or very few complain about them. Your argument doesn't make sense at all, it's just pointless generalization and whataboutism
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Tough one between trickster and twins
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It's not underrated, it's terrible: if the killer isn't camping then the perk is useless, and you might as well heal under the hook. If the killer is camping, they will already be at the hook, so hiding scratch marks/blood won't prevent them from losing the survivor.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
Pray that she's bad, you're not in solo, and she's decided not to bring her best addons. Provided those 3 things are correct, you can actually do some really fun things vs her consistently.
It's just a shame that every bad nurse uses her best addons because, well, they're garbage and the great ones do it anyway because they're her best addons.
Most good nurses I know about actually don't usually run their best add-ons because they make games so painfully easy it's not even fun
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Jeff
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Agree on the M2 thing, also rework her range add-ons and rework the base game into a point system for perks and give nurse the least amount of expendable points. Kinda tired of stacked slowdown nurses
Also rework jolt to work on m2s
Also please people stop using the "god nurse", god nurses aren't a thing
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I don't really think slowdown perks are much of a problem on most killers.
Unless it's nurse or blight, in that case it's huge cringe and I do agree then they just carry bad players
Still, I don't see the fun of using 3 slowdowns on other killers either. I'd rather use other stuff too, although against some teams it can be tough/unwinnable (but I'm calling for it and not complaining)