dugman
dugman
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@hillbillyclaudmain69 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1586454#Comment_1586454
That isn't what it looks like. At least on ps4. Its a lot brighter and its taller.
Ok, I'll take your word for it that it looks different on PS4, I'm only seeing images from PC on Google. (If someone has a snapshot of the PS4 version I'd be curious to see it now.)
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@hillbillyclaudmain69 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1585725#Comment_1585725
It's because I need to concentrate on reading the survivor. I cant do that when theres a ######### pillar of light in my face.
Here's a picture of it. Personally I wouldn't call that a "######### pillar of light" but that's just me. 🤷♂️
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It’s not killer to killer but I would pay money to hear Nea scream when she’s hit like when Huntress is pallet stunned. 😄
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@Erk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1585974#Comment_1585974
Guessing is just bad. It takes all the skill out of the game. So, you play Spirit because she is easier then other killers ? Besides, Wraith, Pig or Legion don't have guessing. Pig has guessing if a survivor is camping an unsafe pallet, which is just stupid. Wraith sneaks up on people, what is the guessing here ? You can literally see him ! Legion ? How ? S/he literally runs at you !
I know why she is used so much. I just told you in this post. She has guessing. No other killer has it (like I said, there is guessing in every game and every killer but one part has to be heavier, DbD is a game about skill while Spirit is a killer about guessing !). If you literally cannot mindgame to counter a looping survivor, you probably need to play more killer and, as much as I hate saying this, get good.
You are not "spoonfeeding" them counterplay. The game has to do that and the game failed the second Spirit came out ! But by playing Spirit, you are hurting yourself and other players. You are not learning how to counter survivors who loop good and you are making their life miserable by playing Spirit in the first place !
Looping is fine but perks that extend loops at little cost (such as Dead Hard) need to be looked at.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1586000#Comment_1586000
Please, tell me how to understand if a Spirit isn't phasing or not. This is a literal coin toss. In the games you told, people are face to face, this makes guessing way easier if you understand expression language. Yes, you can't be %100 sure about what someone is going to do and yes, you can do educated guesses but by the time you understood the killer, its too late. Either all the gens are done or the other 3 survivors are dead.
There are no facial expressions but the Spirit still turns and moves a bit because the other player is controlling them. You can use the micromovements to possibly try and gauge if they are moving or turning slightly in the direction they are thinking of phasing for instance similar to how you can try to gauge where a ranged killer might be aiming. You can also do a loop one particular way in one chase and do it a different way the next chase.
I’m certainly not claiming Spirit is weak at loops, fyi. She’s strong because she’s harder to react to. But the killer running her isn’t random and there are players who are better than average at making correct reads on how Spirits are going to play. My issue here isn’t even about Spirit in particular, it’s about this recurring thing where when people need to guess what other people are going to do it’s called “luck” or “a coin toss” when it’s not.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1586060#Comment_1586060
The only change needed to the Hatch (keys is a totally different topic and something already looked at by the Devs):
If the Killer gets a 3K and the last Survivor escapes through the Hatch, it counts as a 4K emblem and BP-wise. Easiest Fix ever, nobody will need to slug. Its not like the Killer lost because one Survivor found the Hatch (which isnt the case without my proposed change, but then it would matter even less to the Killer).
I should note that reducing the escapee’s bonus to say 2500 from 5000 is effectively giving the killer a 2500 point swing in the endgame score screen. So if you’re determining whether or not you won or how you did relative to the escapee by score then giving the survivor only 2500 points does increase the chances the killer will outscore them.
Also another alternative possibility independent of that is to increase the score bonus of closing the hatch from 250 points to 500 or 1000 points. That would be an extra incentive to get into the hatch race for the killer since they can score a bigger bonus if they can close it. It also gives the killer extra incentive to try and find the hatch at the end of the game as kind of a mini-game bonus.
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@Almo said:
I'll just give you one example. I came across a LoL player with 5000 games. He was Bronze 4, which at the time was only one rank above the very bottom. This guy has no business being put in matches any higher than Bronze 4 despite having multiple thousands of hours in the game.
Yes it's only one datapoint, but it illustrates the problem. Playtime cannot be used for matchmaking. Matchmaking is never going to be exact, but playtime just doesn't indicate anything useful about a player in that regard.
On a different topic since you’re taking an interest here, any general word on the new MMR? Was it an issue with the initial seeding or how certain killers were rated or something more involved? I’m assuming it’s still being worked on but I’m just guessing on that and the possible reason for the problem obviously. “No comment” or “still working on it” is fine by me, I’m just curious, MMR systems are kind of fascinating to be honest. 🙂
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I don’t mind the hatch, it does as mentioned above at least prevent the scenario where the last survivor is just hiding and not doing gens and the killer can’t find them. There are really only a couple of tweaks I would make though:
- Hatch should probably score less points than escaping out the doors. It’s significantly easier to escape by hatch than by a door since it opens automatically so it probably should be worth less points to escape that way. (Maybe 2500 points instead of 5000?)
- When there are two survivors left you sometimes run into the scenario where they are both hiding waiting for the other to die and the killer has trouble finding them which drags the game out. To avoid that there should be something like a five minute timer where, if no living player scores any points in that time, then the endgame collapse immediately starts. It would prevent that occasional 10-15 minute long occasional boring bit of hide and seek when this situation arises.
- Keys should only allow the key user to escape by hatch, not the whole team. All the living survivors getting the sizable escape bonus from a single key use is a bit silly. (And yes, I also think Red Moris could use a tweak but that’s a different topic.)
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I hate when people say guessing what other people are doing is “random”. People aren’t dice, they’re predictable. There’s a reason professional poker tournaments for instance feature the same players, they not only understand the math of poker but also how to gauge what their opponents are thinking. There’s even championships for Rock, Paper, Scissors which on the surface sounds as random as you can get and yet the best players win more often than lose because they have an innate understanding of human psychology in the game.
While it’s true you can’t be 100% sure of what someone is going to do you can make educated guesses that are more likely to be true than a simple coin toss and also can condition your opponent to act a certain way based on prior behavior in a match.
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@Justalittlepeeck said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1585902#Comment_1585902
I mean if they avoid lockers, that is good too, if survivors use perks like Head On/Inner strength or abuse DS&Inner Strength combo
Them not doing Inner Strength is good. Head On is pretty gimmicky though.
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The main weakness to Iron Maiden is that once it happens they know you have the perk and will probably just avoid lockers from then on. And because the Exposed condition and the aura are so short it’s questionable whether you’ll have time to capitalize on it.
That being said I can see the point about synergizing a bit with BBQ and chili. (I don’t use that perk personally though, I don’t care about the out-of-game currency bonus from it and I like other perks better than the BBQ auras for most killers. I get that it’s popular though because of that combo of not too bad tracking and a big BP boost, I just don’t think the tracking on its own is worth it.)
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@Kamizake said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1585806#Comment_1585806
I dont really know the name, but it is a bit like what stretch res does, it gives you a advatange, tru3ta1ent uses it (really ironic, and complains about stretch res)
Some headsets like razer includes that.
Stretched res lets you see over obstacles and walls at loops and requires you to change your resolution to a kind of bizarre 1:1 ratio to pull off. It’s definitely cheating.
I’m not familiar with the surround sound audio third party thing you’re talking about, how exactly does it compare to that? What is it doing that makes it better than just using typical headphones in a chase? Headphones are already directional and you can just turn up the game volume if you’re having trouble hearing sounds right? Just curious what the advantage actually is.
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Right, I know they do a stat post about every six to nine months or so, that’s a pretty far cry from what I’m talking about though.
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I kind of wish the game had a stat site where you could look up average stats like scores and kill ratios by killer. Everybody assumes Spirit is top tier (including me) but we don’t actually have good data to back it up. 🤷♂️
As far as the complaints, some of it stems from Scott Jund for instance complaining about Spirit and Deathslinger being “boring” to play against. His opinion is that at loops you can’t actively do much against a Spirit with Stridor or Deathslinger, the ball is in their court to miss an attack. Of course you can do things to increase the chances they will miss (e.g. use terrain to give yourself some cover from Deathslinger, move unpredictably and use noisy objects to muffle your own sounds in chases when you think Spirit is phasing) but in his opinion those things aren’t “interesting to do” and are “robotic”. (Personally I think he’s offbase on that, to me “robotic” is using quick reflexes to dodge an attack because you see the animation. The counterplays of strategically deciding where to go and how to move during a chase are more of a mindgame I think.)
As far as why I think she’s a top tier killer, it’s because she has a combination of fast map travel and a solid ability in a chase at a loop. There’s only a handful of killers that can get from place to place faster than walking that also have a really good ability that helps get downs efficiently and they’re all top tier because of it (Spirit, Nurse, Freddy, and to some extent Billy although his chainsaw isn’t quite as consistent as the other three killer’s abilities at loops so I put him at fourth here. Hag is a special case, she can cover a wide part of the map without chases and doesn’t care about loops really so she’s also really good, probably around number four or five.) That’s just my opinion though, like I said at the top I don’t have stats one way or another to back it up.
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I like that in the official wiki you can hover the mouse over the term and it has a hot tip popup that gives you the number. It would be cool if they has similar hot tips hovering over “moderately” in the game.
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Just a tip, for your experiment you should use a control as well so you have something to compare Spirit to. Pick a different killer that people consider mediocre (Clown maybe?) and alternate playing them and Spirit equally for two weeks and track your scores and kills for each game. It won’t really “prove” how good or bad or easy or hard to learn Spirit is on average over all players but it may give you some insight into how well Spirit fits your own playstyle.
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In terms of time saved in a match, Decisive Strike potentially gives you an additional chase worth of time (say 30 seconds), maybe two chases if you can heal after escaping. Inner Strength also essentially gives you a chase worth of time back when you heal from injured to full. Inner Strength can be used potentially multiple times but it does require finding a totem each time which are a limited resource and it’s possible other survivors are cleansing totems as well so you may only get to use it once. Inner Strength also has the slight downside that you have to go a little out of your way to find a totem for its first use. Decisive Strike simply happens when you get picked up within a minute of being unhooked, which may or may nit happen during a game. The upside is you don’t have to do anything special beforehand, the downside is you don’t have much control over it (you can play aggressively to entice a killer to down you while you still have it but that’s usually not a great idea probably.)
So they’re both really good I think, at least from the perspective of a killer main. 🤷♂️ Maybe a question to ask yourself is, how often do you like to cleanse totems? If you find yourself cleansing totems all the time then Inner Strength fits your playstyle. If you prefer to smash gens and ignore totems go Decisive Strike since it won’t really require you to play differently (unless you maybe jump into a locker during a chase with it or something,)
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@hillbillyclaudmain69 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1583593#Comment_1583593
Its not so much wasted space as a huge distraction. I literally can't play with that add-on bc I can't focus with it.
Sorry, I’m sure you’re telling the truth about your own experience but I still don’t get it. It’s like saying you can’t play a shooter if there’s a small crosshair because it’s too distracting.
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@hillbillyclaudmain69 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1583609#Comment_1583609
Youve never played her on midwich if you don't know those spots. They suck, but theyre easy to avoid unless the survivor knows about them too, which most won't.
I guess you didn’t watch Tofu’s game I linked, he did know about the spots and the survivors seemed to know about them too.
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Let's see, going down my Steam list by hours played....
- Path of Exile. It really has surpassed Diablo as the best game in that genre.
- Binding of Isaac. Such a bizarre theme but what a great game! There is SO much stuff to discover and do, it's pretty crazy the amount of content it has for something that looks like a small indie game on the surface.
- No Man's Sky. I love flying around and scanning the animals on all the planets and occasionally blowing up the pirate ships. Just a fun game to hop in, explore a planet or two and hop out. Reminds me a ton of the space stage in the old Spore game.
- Puzzle Pirates. Basically an MMO where everything is based on mini-puzzle games. There's a ton of variety in the puzzles and they're all fun, the game was a real time sink for me.
- Slay the Spire is a fantastic deckbuilding rogue-like
- Total War Warhammer. I've actually mostly just played the Chaos faction but I played that faction a ton, they are a blast!
- More recently I've played a bunch of American Truck Simulator on and off. There's just something relaxing about driving around the Western US listening to rock on the radio. 🙂
- Also recently I played a bunch of Cook, Serve, Delicious 2 recently, it's a pretty fun cooking game.
- Older games I really like but haven't played in a while include Hand of Fate, Batman:Arkham City, DC Universe Online, Champions Online, Everquest 2 and Monster Slayers (which is similar to Slay the Spire, they released kind of around the same time independently of each other.)
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Maybe hypothetically if the MMR is trying to assign an initial rating to you for a brand new killer, like say they want to guess how good you might be playing Blight when he goes live, then taking your playtime as killer or Devotion level (which is basically the same thing) could be a reasonable factor. But once you've already played a number of games it really doesn't need to see your play time at that point. Plus Devotion level isn't going to tell you too much for killers that have unique playstyles. Me being good with basic 115% melee chases doesn't help me very much when I play Nurse and tells nothing about how good my aim might be with Deathslinger or Huntress for instance.
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Neither of those is an "offense" in any way.
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I don't normally feel bad about killing survivors, even with Red Moris. Killing survivors is what I'm supposed to be doing as a killer, it's the whole point. The exception is if I kill someone and it turns out they were bugged, then I feel a little sorry for them. Like if I see someone stuck in the hillside for instance, if I realize they're stuck I'll knock them down, pick them up and drop them somewhere nearby so they at least have a chance to recover. (It's only happened once so far fortunately.) I'll kill people who are afk though, it's not the game's fault if you go afk.
And survivors never get sympathy from me by calling me names or saying I "tunneled" or "camped" or whatever. If anything knowing that I beat someone who's a jerk just makes it more satisfying.
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Honestly I hardly ever think about scratch marks while I'm Legion in Frenzy because I normally start Frenzy to get a hit on someone I can already see and at that point Killer Instinct kicks in and scratch marks are kind of obsolete.
I'm not exactly sure why they bothered turning off blood detection for Spirit but kept in scratches though. If I had to guess I'd say maybe it's because if Spirit can see blood while phased then it makes it that much easier for her to hone in on injured people who are crouching? But she can already normally hear injured crouching people so doesn't really need the blood to find them. (Of course Father's Glasses gives you the Bloodhound bright red style blood trail while phased but that's a red add-on.)
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Wrist or keyboard stress aside, tapping space bar is a dumb mechanic. At least a skill check kind of requires you to pay a little attention to the timing of what you're doing, that alone makes it somewhat more fun than just mindlessly tapping a key or holding down a macro button.
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They can't bring DC penalties back fast enough, nobody likes playing with ragequitters. They can all go play other games for all I care.
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The Yellow Mori is useless (if there's only one survivor left and you down them it's very rare that you can't hook them or let them bleed out to kill them.) The Green Mori is fine, one kill one hook early is a nice bonus but not overwhelming. The Red Mori is overpowered, getting multiple kills one hook early is very swingy.
The suggestion I like for them beefs up Yellow and tones down Red:
- Yellow Mori: Lets you kill any survivor you've hooked twice (aka on death hook). Better than the current version but still a relatively small bonus overall.
- Green Mori: Lets you kill one survivor you've hooked once. (No change from the current version)
- Red Mori: Both of the above effects. You can kill one survivor that you've hooked once and kill any survivor you've hooked twice. It's a little better than the Green but not as good as the current Red while still letting you potentially get the mori animation multiple times.
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I've never had a match go on for two hours, but I definitely agree that the scenario where you have two survivors just hiding as much as they can while the killer looks for them is incredibly boring and drags the game out. I'd love it if the game had a timer where if no player scores any bloodpoints for, say, 5 minutes then the endgame collapse starts. Five minutes would be plenty of time for one of the survivors to try and work on a gen or the killer to finally find one of them and start a chase. But if nothing is happening for that long just start the timer so the game can end after a couple more minutes either way.
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I just use the main totem progress charms, I at least feel like I sort of earned those by completing the challenges.
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I don't have a problem with multiple people telling me where they are all the time. The issue I have with this perk is how good it is in a swf versus used by a solo survivor, they should tweak it so the disparity between the two isn't so great.
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Tru3ta1ent had an Oni game recently where the same but happened. He couldn’t start the Demon form and the power bar was full and white.
https://youtu.be/tpuLaTLVI6I -
@RakimSockem said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1583745#Comment_1583745
I understand both uses of Dead Hard. It does it's job when you're trying to get extra distance.
But when you're in a dead zone and you use a perk that's supposed to let you slide through an attack and either A, it never goes off when you press the button or B, it activates, makes you exhausted and you still get hit, it becomes trash.
I completely understand that the primary use of the perk should be for distance to a window or pallet, but that doesn't negate the fact that it's trash at doing something else it should do effectively
Yep, I totally agree it’s bad at evading in the open. It’s a case where the perk is bad at something you’d expect it to be good at based on its description but it turns out to be really good at something else entirely so it’s still popular.
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Overlooked above is the original poster saying “Dead Hard is trash.”
I’m a killer main so maybe I’m way off here, but my impression is that Dead Hard is extremely popular specifically because it gets the survivor just that little bit of extra distance they need in a loop sometimes to just barely get to a pallet drop or vault before the killer can hit them. Not every loop falls in that category obviously but it probably happens in about 1/3 or 1/4 chases which is once a game that if a survivor can time a Dead Hard right it gets them to that pallet/vault and avoids the hit had they not had the perk.
Does the original poster think Dead Hard is trash because it’s hard to make a killer swing through you with it? If that’s all they’re trying to do with it then yeah, the perk is bad at directly dodging a basic attack. But, correct me if I’m wrong, the good survivors who use it use it to gain a bit of distance at a key moment, that’s it’s strength.
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@honestscript said:
That way when I get tunneled and killed within the first 5 minutes, I'll at least get double BP's for the little amount of work that I was able to do.
Instead of "wow, there's no point in playing this round".
I'll be like "Challenge accepted"
If the bonus is outside of the endgame score (similar to BBQ and Chili or a bloodpoint offering) then sure, no big deal if the survivor gets extra spending money. I have no problem either way with that.
On the other hand if the bonus is added to the victory points on the endgame screen (ala various add-ons that add points to the 8k score categories which are added together to determine the winner of the match based on bloodpoints) then that’s a serious balance issue. Why should a survivor who got killed have a better chance of winning on score than one who didn’t?
So extra BP to spend if you get killed early, ok whatever. Higher victory points for purposes of determining the winner or loser? No.
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@Talmeer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1583680#Comment_1583680
They may prioritize nothing basing on social media activities, but imo they changing definitely things basing on vocal minorities in the forums.
Several nerfs and reworks, also the Legion rework, read like a love letter to those guys. They do sometimes something and sometimes step by step what these guys wanted.
In the last few months it has gone better, but if you play certain characters in this game, you still feel the influence from nerf threads in those forums and on other social media plattforms.
Honestly if they did things based on shouting by a vocal minority then Deathslinger would have gotten a tweak based on all the “Deathslinger is uncounterable” posts. (I’m not a backer of that idea personally but it’s a really common thread since Scott Jund complained about it.) There’s been no indication they are doing anything new with Deathslinger though or that he’s under- or over-performing in game data.
I think the difference with Billy is probably that they had both people complaining about the new overheat mechanic AND they had game data and internal games that probably showed him losing more than he should. The forums pointed out something to review, they reviewed it and agreed it as a serious enough issue to warrant spending additional dev time, and changed it.
Likewise for the MMR system. They implemented the new MMR and got a bunch of complaints about top ranked players going against teams of rank 20s. The complaints were extra incentive to look at the issue, the data presumably backed up that the problem was real and not just random variance in the matches, and they determined it was serious enough to hot patch it out temporarily while a fix could be developed.
So yeah, I think they listen but they only act when their own data implies the issue is both real and serious enough to warrant allocating resources to a change. Popular misconceptions that don’t match their own data or fairly minor issues that wouldn’t be worth the trouble of highly prioritizing don’t get changed.
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Actually you can tell from the changes they made to Hillbilly between when they first implemented the overheat mechanic on the PTB to when it went live and then changed again they were paying attention to feedback and data on that new mechanic. What they don’t presumably do though is prioritize their changes based on forum threads or necessarily agree with a loud vocal minority of players in the forums on certain things.
For instance, Monstrous Shrine is mentioned in the original post and I totally agree that perk is garbage, I’d love to see it and some other underused perks get a buff. But I’m not on the development team and I have no idea what other things they have in the pipeline that the unit who would have build and test a new version of that perk have on their plate. It’s quite possible that revamping an old underused perk like that isn’t worth being at a higher priority than having that team work on new perks for new characters. Even a simple numerical change needs programming and balance and qa testing before it could go live so maybe it’s just a matter of preferring to allocate that sort of time to the new characters and perks first and tweaking old perks as time might permit.
Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to see them spend a midchapter period doing a comprehensive pass on possibly tweaking and buffing all the perks and add-ons that are underused. But I’m not going to jump to the conclusion that the devs don’t “listen to feedback” just because they’re not doing it, for all I know there are higher priority items and some of the things I personally consider underpowered are actually not that bad when looked at in the actual game data.
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They disabled it but that doesn’t mean they got rid of it forever. The issue they had with it seemed to be more of a glitch in how some people’s initial ratings were set with certain killers and/or how some specific killers were handled by the system (e.g. Tofu in his vids commented that his matches with Hillbilly had awful balancing, he was being paired against groups of brand new players, but when he played other killers the results were more reasonable.) The devs are presumably still working on fixing those issues in the hopes of reintegrating the MMR. So there’s probably little point from a development resource standpoint in doing another patch to switch back on the ability of killers to change characters in the campfire lobby when they would have to later do a second patch to switch it back again once the MMR is put in place.
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There is one main difference that might make survivors irritated about being slugged versus hooked - you die more quickly on the hook. For instance, if someone has already been hooked twice and hook them again, they’re immediately dead and can move on to a new match if they want or watch the rest of the match play out. If I instead leave them on the ground though then they may be stuck on the ground for up to four minutes while the rest of the game goes on before they finally bleed out with nothing to do other than crawl to where they think a hatch might appear or whatever.
I’m a killer main and I have no issues with slugging as a strategy to make more efficient use of time. As soon as I hook someone midgame they can be rescued within a two second action whereas after the down they are on the ground for typically 15-30 seconds before they can be reasonably revived (aside from Unbreakable, etc) which means I have a bit of time where I can also pressure a second survivor or get a nearby gen regressing while the slug is incapacitated. And from their perspective I don’t think survivors get too upset with slugging in that context since they know there’s a decent chance they’ll be revived or hooked after a short time frame.
Where slugging is boring for both killer and survivor is when two survivors are dead and you are slugging the third survivor to try and ensure the fourth survivor doesn’t escape by hatch. In this case that strategy is effective but it’s also really dull and prolongs the game by up to 4+ minutes if there is a stalemate where the killer can’t find the fourth survivor (or even longer if the third survivor manages to get revived while the killer is off searching). Personally in that situation I just hook the third person, I technically am not playing optimally by doing that but it makes the game much shorter by cutting out a really boring endgame sequence which I’m ok with. If the fourth person happens to escape before I find the hatch and kill them then so be it, I “won with an asterisk” at that point.
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@hillbillyclaudmain69 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1582999#Comment_1582999
It's wasted screen space. No good nurse wants this because it hinders them. Not everything needs to be balanced around low ranks.
Again, I really don’t understand this argument. It’s a tiny dot on the ground, how is that “wasted screen space?” Seriously, can somebody explain the vitriol against having the dot on the screen by a couple of people here who claim to be Nurse mains? I don’t get it.
Also on a tangent about collisions and skill, if you think collisions aren’t an issue for people who are great Nurse’s I recommend watching Tofu’s Nurse match from Midwich this week where he had instances of invisible barriers to blinks in parts of the hallways. Tofu is an excellent Nurse with I’m guessing thousands of hours in the character, I doubt anybody is going to say he needs to “play more” because he got blocked by impassible terrain.
https://youtu.be/zKCeZVVsfGM -
@hillbillyclaudmain69 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1582625#Comment_1582625
Plaid flannel 100% should not be base kit. As a nurse main, I can tell you that this would make nurse worse. It takes up your screen and serves only as a distraction. Learn blink distance instead of asking for a literal nerf for good players.
Takes up your screen? It’s literally a tiny dot on the ground. I don’t understand why you think it would be anything but either inconsequential or a slight buff, how would it be a nerf?
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I'm not a fan of Pop or BBQ on him because of the conflict with Cages. Every time you hook a Tormented survivor you effectively lose 10 seconds of time you could have saved by caging them. (For comparison you can cross a map end to end in 20 seconds, so 10 seconds is enough time to go half way across the map and start a new chase.) And every time you cage someone it's a lost chance to trigger Pop or BBQ.
I know those perks are "meta", but I honestly think Pyramid is better off using non-hook based perks. Ruin + Surveillance is good for instance, it gives great tracking info automatically and has gen slow down while Ruin is up. And even if Ruin is destroyed Surveillance is still ok on its own since you can still kick a gen to keep track of it. You can pair that with two other perks of your choice. Nurse's Calling is good on him for obvious reasons, so you can also try pairing that with Sloppy Butcher to make the heals take longer. Or you can try Monitor & Abuse if you want to get a little closer to people before chases start. (Trail of Torment is also a good one, although it has a bit of anti-synergy with Ruin since you can't kick a regressing gen.) Or if you're looking for additional long range tracking Discordance or Whispers are both great in different phases of the game and don't require hooks.
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Nurse is the least fun killer to play by far. Staring at the ground every 5 seconds is just plain annoying. Even if you're hitting her blinks the stare at the ground stun thing is plain irritating, I can't imagine how the devs thought that would be a "fun" way to balance her. She could seriously use a revamp. The two suggestions I like so far are:
- Let you look around while you're in blink stun. At least then you can do something other than count your toes. If the devs think looking around while stunned is a bit of a buff then just slow down the blink refresh a teeny amount to make up the difference.
- Skilled Nurses never have to use Plaid Flannel but it's a great tool for new players learning Nurse. So just make it part of the base ability, that way the new players can see where they're blinking to without using up an add-on slot and veteran players won't get a significant boost in the process.
- Tweak her green Spasmodic Breath add-on, it's an interesting idea (trading blinks for movement speed) but in practice since it only turns her into a vanilla 115% killer with no special ability it's actually worse than using no add-on at all. Buff the add-on slightly so she's not -just- a 115% basic attacker, maybe give her 120% speed instead. (120% movement killer with basic attacks is at least a little more comparable to a base kit Nurse who can blink using an add-on.)
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Blight looks good other than the PTB version was slightly buggy because of the hit box size and the double stun time when he hits with a Lethal Rush. Otherwise if those are fixed he looks like he'll be a pretty decent killer. Not top tier or anything but at least average or good.
Trapper could maybe use a slight buff. Having to walk all around the map to get his traps does slow him down quite a bit. Personally I'd like to see him be able to carry a couple of traps by default and refresh traps in the lockers, similar to how Huntress works. Also is it just me or does it seem like survivors can break out of his traps pretty quickly? He can certainly win games if he outplays the survivors but he does seem a bit weaker than most of the killers because of how much effort it takes to handle his traps and how luck driven escaping them is.
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Pig also could maybe use a very slight buff. Maybe. My guess is Pig is probably the weakest killer overall, none of her three abilities are all that great. Her head traps are her best feature probably, they do slow down the gen speed a bit. The issue with them is she needs to be scoring downs to use them so they're a little bit of a "win more" type ability in the sense that if she's already downing people she's probably doing ok but if she's not downing people and needs help the traps aren't doing much to get her out of that slump. Meanwhile her stealth is functional but hurts her movement speed and her ambush lunge is very situational. It just feels like she could use a boost on something, probably one of her weaker abilities, to bring her up to snuff. (Again, though, that's a maybe, like pretty much all the killers you can win with her if you outplay the survivors.)
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I know they won’t do it because the details would probably be a nightmare to figure out, but a killer who appears as a fifth survivor in the campfire lobby and during play moves and acts exactly like a survivor but who can damage gens and backstab people could be fun. 🙂
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@OllieHellhunter said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1581223#Comment_1581223
What wraith perk do you think would be better out of curiosity?
Bloodhound is a perk I frequently use in combination with Sloppy Butcher. Basically if you would use Nurse’s Calling then Bloodhound is a good variant on that same idea of helping track injured survivors. While it doesn’t give you an exact aura like Nurse’s, it does work all the time even when the survivor is just crouching and not healing, and it makes it pretty much impossible for an injured survivor to stay hidden nearby or juke you for more than a quick second.
Also Shadowborn is an excellent perk to give you an expanded field of view. It both helps you with spotting things at longer range by giving you a wider shot of the surroundings and also helps you track and hit survivors trying to do jukes and 360s.
Predator is the weakest of them but even this one I personally kind of like. The downside to Predator is it makes it less likely for scratches to appear on walls so they can be a little harder to spot from a distance. But the upside is at rank 3 the trail is super obvious, there’s no question exactly where the survivor ran to. Whether or not you think that benefit outweighs the downside is kind of a matter of preference I think.
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I only play killer so
Killer -
Whispers - great for getting into a chase at the start of the match and finding the last two survivors at the end. Only really useful at rank 3 though, the range at 1 and 2 is too large
Spies from the Shadows - Walls hacks for birds. At rank 3 you will always instantly know if any survivor russles a bird in your terror radius. Not useful at ranks 1 and 2 because the range is so short that you would probably see or hear the survivor anyway. Especially good on indoor maps since you can see birds through the walls.
Sloppy Butcher - Almost all killers rely on basic attacks to do most or all of their damage. This gives extra slowdown passively every time you hit
Deerstalker - Not a popular choice but I find myself slugging pretty frequently and this perk saves a surprising amount of time looking for survivors who have crawled away, plus makes it trivial to keep an eye on their aura to see if another survivor is coming in to revive them. If you’ve often walked around for 10-15 seconds looking for someone you downed then this is the perk for you! 🙂
On a side note, a more realistic exercise is asking, if you could only choose from the universal perks plus your character’s three starting perks which four would you use? I haven’t gone down the list but I think all the killers have at least one starting perk that’s worth considering using in place of one of the four universals I mentioned above.
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I don’t main any killer, I just play whatever killer I have a mission for that night, but Doctor might be my best killer at the moment. The ability to constantly know where everybody in your part of the map is alone makes him really good just by virtue of keeping him in chases pretty much the entire match. His ability also being decent at loops pushes him into the great category for me.
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@tactic said:
DS only activates twice per survivor and can be avoided via slugging
PGTW can be activated, at most, up to 11 times (or 12 but at that point the game is over)
To be fair, Pop Goes the Weasel is a little bit of a “win more” perk in that it requires you to be getting downs and survivors then being chased off gens before completion in the first place to capitalize on it. If you aren’t getting downs and losing it helps you a bit less then when you are already winning. In contrast Decisive Strike helps you when you are losing and getting downed so it’s triggering when you need it the most. It doesn’t trigger as often as Pop but when it does it’s always a nice momentum shift to help you maybe pull out of a losing situation.
Don’t get me wrong, I love Pop because kicking gens is fun and this is a nice bonus slowdown effect. But there are some rational reasons why a few top players say they think it’s a little overrated compared to perks that more directly help you get downs in the first place, because getting downs will always be the best way to slow gens.
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It boils down to how many seconds on average it takes a killer to get a hit over the course of the game. The faster a killer can get hits the faster they get downs. Hag is one of the only killers that gets hits with pretty much no chase period. She spends extra time in the beginning setting up a web of traps, gens outside that web start to go, but then once those are done the survivors are forced to enter her territory and she gets hits the moment they start triggering the traps. Smart Hags put the traps in chokepoints that survivors will run through when chased off gens as opposed to right next to gens, so crouching near the gen doesn’t avoid the trap, and will have traps that are in a close enough region of the map such that if you get hit by one trap you have a decent chance to sprint toward another trap and get a second hit a few seconds later. Since none of the hits require her actually chasing survivors for more than a few seconds she is extremely time efficient once the traps start triggering.
Her main weakness is against a full swf using a flashlight to sneak around near Hag and disable her traps. You can potentially deal with that by, for example, setting up a couple of traps and then forcing the player following you to set them off to down them, but either way being “weak against a full swf team that specifically coordinates against you” isn’t exactly a problem unique to Hag.
Personally I think she is among the top five killers with the top three being Spirit, Nurse and Freddy and her and Billy being four and five. Most streamers seem to put her fairly high as well. (And Michi is the best Hag main streamer I’ve watched, the things and foreplanning he can do with traps are pretty wild. If you ever want an insight into how an expert Hag player treats traps check out his Hag guide, he does some pretty neat tricks with traps like using the forced camera turn to steer runners into the wrong sides of loops.)
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Top killers - Spirit, Nurse, Freddy. These three all have both a way to get around the map quickly and a really good ability in a chase.
Really good killers - Billy, Doctor, Hag. Billy can get around the map really well and has a decent chase ability but it's not quite consistent enough to be in the Top set. Doctor has a decent chase ability and his tracking saves him a good amount of time between chases but he can't get around the map faster than walking. And Hag takes a bit to get set up in the beginning of the match but has excellent map presence and doesn't even chase people, she just smacks them instantly when her traps go off.
Everybody else - Honestly I think most killers in this "good enough" category where they are good enough to win if you outplay the survivors but they have less margin for error than the ones in the lists above. Clown for instance is maybe the best 115% movement speed chaser in the game but that's literally all he can do which holds him back from actually being great. Demogorgon can tunnel around the map and has pretty good tracking with activated portals but the Shred is pretty situational and that's about it for him. Ghost Face is great at stalking and ambush attacks but can't get around the map quickly and has a bit of trouble in chases when not in stealth. Huntress and Deathslinger are both really good in one-on-one chases but that's all they can do and they have a 110% movement speed which hurts their ability to get from place to place. And so on, they all have something they're good at but what they're good at isn't enough on its own to make them really strong overall compared to the higher tier killers.
And that's it. I don't think any of the killers are "trash" in the sense that they all can win games at a reasonable rate and most of them have pretty similar kill rates as far as I can tell. If I had to pick a killer I think might be the weakest it would be Pig since Pig's ambush lunge is very situational, her stealth works but slows her down quite a bit, and her reverse bear traps give her a bit of gen slowdown but it's effectiveness is somewhat random depending on how lucky or unlucky the survivors are with the boxes. She's "ok" at each of those things but not really great in any of them. Even so, I still think she's "good enough" to win if you outplay the survivors so at worst she's at the bottom part of the average category.
On a final note, my guess is Blight is also going to be in that Everybody Else/Good Enough category. His Rush ability looks like it's the best map movement in the game. He can run at Billy speeds but if he hits an object can just course correct and keep going. He can start his run instantly and it only has a 2 second per charge cooldown so he can Rush basically whenever he wants between chases. And he can even use his Rush to catch back up to a survivor after an initial hit. But mostly his ability isn't really something to use in chases, it's primarily to get you running to the next chase after you hit or down a survivor. That speed is definitely a good ability, but having pretty much nothing to help deal with loops will cost him some of the time he's saving running around. So I'm thinking he'll end up in that average category, able to win if you outplay the survivors but not great.
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I like crossplay, it leads to shorter queue times.
Also note that eventually when they bring back MMR that any hypothetical difference in win results between console players and PC players would automatically be reflected in their ratings. So if a console player for instance loses fairly regularly against PC players then their rating will go down and they'll face correspondingly easier PC players over time. (The same sort of thing can hypothetically happen with emblem ranks as well but the emblem rank system isn't quite as responsive as an elo style MMR can be.)
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@Human_Giraffe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1579542#Comment_1579542
Yeah I was playing Spirit soooooooo...
You didn't happen to record the game did you? If so you could post it and ask for feedback.