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dbdthegame
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3490800#Comment_3490800
Everyone goes into the match knowing if theyre gonna sweat or not. This isnt a 'Well if they're gonna do it..' kind of scenario.
Survs or killers are going in twith their loadouts knowing if theyre gonna be a good player or... not. The blight in question was sweating. Period. The survivors came sweaty. Period. And yet we point fingers?
Own it already. You wanna win, so you sweat. Not sure why there's a stigma against wanting to win. But skill determines how you win. And this blight needs some customs practice imo. :)
Edit: Also, send any Blights my way. Its a breakfast I never tire of.
You missed my point entirely. The common denominator will determine how a killer will play their future games. If I log in, and I play three games in a row against extremely sweaty SWFs with sweaty perks, and I'm trying to play Sadako, you can bet I'm switching over to Blight/Wesker/Artist and sweating. It's like you said, both the survivors and the killer were sweating. I don't think the Blight had a problem with it, but OP obviously did. We can both agree they deserved each other, so this thread is unnecessary.
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@GannTM said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3490885#Comment_3490885
This is honestly a ridiculous take. OTR only comes into play when the killer hard tunnels. If a killer is affected by OTR, then it’s clear that survivor has done nothing to progress the game. Also if the killer is hard tunneling, then they’ll probably just negate OTR entirely by hitting them before basekit BT would expire.
OTR has two more effects outside of Endurance. Even if the survivor immediately interacts with a gen, they still have two S-tier perks active for 80s. I don't know why people like to skim over this fact.
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@Clockwork_Enigma said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3490757#Comment_3490757
A Survivor should theoretically never even get damaged by a Dire Crow that's facing towards a hook due to the range restriction being larger than that of the flight path itself.
If you set up Dire Crows within 10 meters of a hook, but their effective range is 7.5 meters (not 8 as I stated before), that is a whole 2.5 meters range between them and the hooked Survivor which prevents them from actually damaging.
Look at this and tell me with a straight face behind that monitor of yours that this will hit:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/119ZL8LFNDLI/20230723162653-1.jpg
That little area in the very end is when they turn into a Swarm.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/GPA8SS8FCMGO/20230723162307-1.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/B8T8M5AX7DVD/20230723162409-1.jpg
Wherein they become this just before they even make contact with the hooked Survivor. And let's not forget that if Artist wants to get a hit in on Survivors by camping in this manner, the Survivors have to travel within the beam's length and run into it haphazardly.
And again, Survivors can just bait the Artist into throwing them out or she'll have to go on cooldown anyway if she lets them disintegrate. The notion that Artist is a strong face camper is ludicrous when she has to not only go out of her way to set up a temporary system, but one that can actually not work at all.
And this is even ignoring the fact that I made the suggestion to REMOVE the ability to injure Survivors outright if they're pointed towards hooked Survivors as part of the changes so that it doesn't get campier as a result of removing the range restriction.
You realize you can shoot your birds BEFORE the survivor is kissing the one on the hook, yes? You can basically bodyblock the area around the hook and force them to go in front of it, forcing them into the bird path.
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@pseudechis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3490814#Comment_3490814
No I never implied anything of the sort. Where’d you come up with that?
They failed to pick their gens smartly and wound up playing into SM’s strengths.
That’s going to continue to be a thing till they tweak how she works.
I don’t have to play you to know this.
Plus all that will measure is how good you are compared to me.
Unless we play multiple games across multiple killers to get a skill baseline and then play a heap of SK against each other then it really shows nothing.
Given how you threw down the gauntlet in such a manner makes me think I probably wouldn’t enjoy playing with you long enough to get the data we needed to make the point that everyone already knows.
So I’ll pass and you are welcome to interpret that as you please.
"They failed to pick their gens smartly and wound up playing into SM’s strengths." They knew from the first 30 seconds of the game which 3-gens she had selected (she was actually considering a 4-gen, and they broke it early on before she even figured it out).
You're literally implying they 3-genned by accident, saying they didn't pressure the right gens early on. They absolutely tried, and it was obvious she was already camping her 3-gen from the get go. They did the smartest thing they could, which was to finish all other gens in complete safety and attack the 3-gen afterwards using different strategies.
I throw the gauntlet because you're inferring that it's as simple as "pressuring the gens early on". I'm giving you a chance to prove to me, in practice, on a map of your choosing, how easy it is to just break the 3-gen that SM is holding on to for dear life.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3490812#Comment_3490812
Its always a problem on survivors side. If 1-2 teammates die and the remaining have Adrenaline is perfectly fine. Even if 4 survivors alive, 1 Adrenaline would not hurt. Its only all 4 of them have Adrenaline.
Same to DH, extend a 10sec chase to 20sec would not hurt. Its only when they extend another 10sec of a 1min chase.
I agree, 1 Adrenaline isn't a huge deal. Just the same way 1 DS or 1 old DH or 1 OTR isn't a huge deal. However, there is no perk limitation on survivors, and seeing 4 injured people fly off into the sunset after the last gen gets done, 3 minutes into the game, with Adrenaline, is such a slap in the face, especially if you happen to be playing a weaker killer. You should get healing, or a speedboost, but not both.
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@EmmaFrostyEyes said:
“I understand the survivor main brainrot has convinced most people that "tunneling = bad" but tunneling is a legit strategy” yeah ok
The devs themselves have said as much. Besides the tunneled survivor likely losing a pip (pip system is its own can of worms), what is one thing that is objectively wrong with tunneling?
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@Zokenay said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3490885#Comment_3490885
Thing is, while you get a strong defensive effect from OTR, it comes at the cost of you being unable to do essentially nothing, cant work on gens, totems, heals or even save from hook, any of that immediately removes the Endurance.
Yeah it lasts a long time, but if a survivor did kept it for that long, then they were dead weight for a long time for their team.
You lose Endurance but maintain Iron Will+Distortion. Either killer tunnels and you have 3 S-tier perks, or killer doesn't tunnel and you go back to gens and you have two S-tier perks. No matter how you slice it, OTR is too strong. OTR is the survivor equivalent of old Eruption: 3 perks in one. OTR gives you 3 S-tier perks in one, old Eruption gave you gen slowdown+gen regression+information all in one.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3490862#Comment_3490862
I am sorry, i can't argue with you anymore after i read OTR is broken. Good luck in your games, looks like you need it.
OTR is one of the most busted perks in the game, this isn't even up for debate. It is literally 3 S-tier perks in one, for 80s, twice a game. You get unlimited Distortion, old Iron Will, and BT, all for 80s. I understand it's "necessary" for anti-tunneling, but it is ridiculously strong. There's a reason every single comp league bans it across the board. This isn't even taking into account the fact you can use it aggressively to take hits, with DS to refresh your mend, with MFT so you last even longer in chase off DS, with Dead Hard so you can take another hit before going down again.
I understand the survivor main brainrot has convinced most people that "tunneling = bad" but tunneling is a legit strategy, that killers have to use to help them achieve a win, because survivors are simply too efficient BASEKIT, and maps are simply too safe, with a lot of them being balanced around the common denominator. A lot of maps in the game have enough pallets to predrop every single one and still be able to finish all gens with pallets to spare. What chance do weak killers stand against something like this?
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3490819#Comment_3490819
And now CoH nerfed to ground, it's worthless to bring. And med-kits are very limited, so survivors are leaving charges for end game or death hook. Which means we are in no heal meta.
Killers asked it and now you hate this too?
If you really hate Adrenaline that much, you can use Terminus btw. It's very decent end game perk
I don't know that COH is worthless to bring. It's pocket We'll Make It healing speed in a 24m radius area, and shows you the auras of survivors that are injured (whether they are being chased or not). It's still a very strong perk in its current setup. A perk can be strong without being obscenely broken, like Adren, OTR, and MFT.
Medkits are limited, and it is 100% justified. They were far too strong previously. They are still very strong currently, just not nearly to the same extent.
Yes, killers asked for healing to become an actual slowdown to the game instead of an inconvenience like during the golden age of medkits and COH. And now that it is, survivors are choosing to genrush with Adrenaline, which is another problematic meta. It doesn't affect me personally, since I main Blight, Wesker, Artist, and Singularity, all of whom are killers that thrive off survivors remaining injured. This meta hits weaker killers the hardest. I'm not complaining about it; I'm accepting it. However, you also have to accept the following: if you bring 4x Adrenaline and choose to genrush injured against a Blight without ever healing, then complain about being 4-man slugged in post game, you are a hypocrite. You don't get to have your cake and eat it too. Reap what you sow: you want a meta for survivors that's as efficient as possible, expect a meta for killers to counter it.
Terminus takes 25% of the killer's perk allocation. And basekit survivors are far stronger than most basekit killers. A killer playing with 3 perks hinders their ability to function significantly more than a survivor playing with no perks at all.
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@nars said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3490809#Comment_3490809
shack isnt fine for m1 killers, which is what bloodlust is designed for. Killers with actual chase powers dont get bloodlust, and if they do they are throwing and your team is on gens. If you think that an m1 killer can actually play shack without BL, idk what to tell you.
You can literally play shack without BL, and I do it all the time. Even without Bamboozle which forces the pallet down, there are so many mindgames you can do. Try the following: hide your red stain, stand still for a second or two, fake red stain at the door then double back towards the window, do a triple back at the door and catch them doing a double vault on the medium vault. There is entire Discord servers set up for people to 1v1, and a lot of them are using Trapper to do so. If you can't get a hit on shack without Bloodlust with a 115, it is a skill issue.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3490812#Comment_3490812
You had this nature slowdown.
CoH gave reason to survivors for healing. They blessed totem, run to boon area for healing and a lot time wasted. Game was longer because healing meta.
But killers hated it. Now healing nerfed. Survivors are not healing. And now, killers are complaining about this too lol. What do you want seriously?
Healing is bad, not healing is bad. So?
Except COH was strictly superior to every other healing option (outside of self medkits) because it consumed 32s of aggregate time (same as an altruistic heal) but only required one person to reset. Medkits in their current state are still incredibly powerful.
Can I also say, your "I want egregiously broken perks or I will genrush with Adrenaline mindset" is probably why you run into so many Blights.
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@yeeeitsdustin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3490812#Comment_3490812
Yes but that can even be countered in many different ways. There's gen regression perks to keep gens at bay, gen slowdown perks that either slow down the speed of gens or block them, and slugging if everyone is staying injured.
Only one unbreakable is enough to undo all your slugging pressure. That's, of course, if the team is stupid enough to group up while injured instead of doing 4 gens in separate corners. At this point, the only thing they need to do is call out when you leave the slug and they're 99'd and your pressure is gone. Gen slowdown and regression perks can't keep up with basekit surv gen repair speed.
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@pseudechis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3490290#Comment_3490290
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3490309#Comment_3490309
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3490319#Comment_3490319
I get the problem.
The point is people are putting too much emphasis on the out come of this one game purely because the survivor team is thought to be good.
I agree with all the things about SM that people are saying her design is rather poor shes’s mediocre at most things but is really good at this one delaying tactic.
But that’s obvious and has been the primary complaint since someone realised that she’s really good at defending a 3 gen.
Survivor teams need to break each 3 gen before it becomes a thing which is achieved by being very coordinated about which gens you focus on for the entirety of the match.
If a mediocre team like my group can do that then this “best group of all time” should have done that too and they didn’t.
I liken it to AFK pig that had one very specific counter requiring the team to get as many traps off as possible (typically down to 1 left which was the most common outcome) then 99 multiple gens, pop them all in rapid succession then the trapped person hatches out after everyone else escapes. We managed it once as a coordinated team with no deaths. It took over 30 mins and afk pig was eventually patched out. As it should be.
The same thing will happen to 3 gen SM it’ll be patched out eventually till then teams are going to have to pick their gens carefully and split them out to avoid a full 3 gen lockdown. Exactly what the best team in the world didn’t do this game.
Do you really think the best team in the world 3-genned themselves by accident?
How about you and your SWF play me on Skull Merchant, and you can show me how easily you break my 3-gen. Only restriction is no toolboxes or Brand New Parts.
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4x Adrenaline is a big problem. Healing is supposed to be a natural slowdown for the game that gives killers more time to apply pressure. Adrenaline incentivizes staying injured and cranking out gens as fast as possible, especially when combined with Resilience.
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@nars said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3490797#Comment_3490797
It only kicks in for m1 killers at unfair loops for them. Ex: sadako at shack or GoJ.
Shack is a fine loop. Plenty of mindgames you can do. Bad killers are using it outside of a lot of unfair loops.
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I'm also a Skull Merchant main, I have over 10k hours on her (about 17 games).
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Probably has something to do with the fact every swf is running 4x Brand New Parts, 4x MFT, 4x Adrenaline, and running map offerings.
You don't get to have your cake and eat it too. Killer players want to win too. If survivors bring the most egregiously broken stuff every game to win, why should Killer be shamed for doing the same?
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@nars said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3490791#Comment_3490791
I think it should just take a few seconds longer to get, other than that its fine.
A few seconds longer to guarantee a hit, no. Fix the problem. It's far too powerful on a lot of maps that aren't pallet dense like Rotten Fields.
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They already have. Nodes are cheaper and Prestiging is faster.
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@nars said:
bloodlust doesnt need any changes. It exists as a patch to bad loop and map design for m1 killers to actually have a chance.
besides if their getting bloodlust 2-3 consistently they are overcommitting way too much and are gonna lose that game.
Bloodlust definitely needs changes. I say this as a killer main. Killers shouldn't be able to play ring around the rosie to guarantee a hit on most pallets. I have to say, I like the proposed changes.
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@Clockwork_Enigma said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3490722#Comment_3490722
Birds' Flight Paths (the areas that directly injure Survivors) are 8 meters.
Artist's range restriction facing Survivors is 10 meters.
Artist can only place up to 4 birds at a time and can be baited into using them incorrectly or may not even injure the Survivors off the bat.
Additionally, the more crows that Artist places, the longer her cooldown after sending them off will be. Even if she doesn't send them off, she still incurs a cooldown that prevents her from spawning birds in the first place.
Even if Artist does send off her birds, she'll still have to manage to HIT a Survivor, and will actually reap less rewards just trying to M1 them than going for her power.
"Strong face camper", by the way.
Also you completely miss the point of what I'm trying to say considering the fact that I've showed images where I'm trying to NOT aim for the hooked Quentin and want to use my Power in a proactive way (i.e. try to locate Survivors away from the hook) but cannot simply because of the range restriction.
Bud, you can set up 3 birds at 10m out facing the hook, and guarantee a hit on anyone approaching it, which guarantees the M1 follow up. You don't need to shove the bird down the hooked survivor's throat to get a hit. I said it and I'll say it again, Artist is a strong facecamper. Watch Deshy's stream to see her power level.
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This is an intended feature. Artist is already a very strong facecamper since she can still set up birds that face the hook and are close enough to hit, and birds have very shory recovery delay. Nothing to discuss here.
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@ULTRAPATO08 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/384292/we-need-to-talk-about-skull-merchant
A top team lost the game.
What is the problem?
The team that has made a mockery of countless killers lost.
They say that if the top team lost then other people don't stand a chance.
The reality is that that team proves that the game has a serious imbalance and is completely in favor of the survivors.
there is no problem with the SM, there are very few people who use it.
There are many killers the probability of facing a SM is very low.
And yet there are SM who do not know how to use drones.
I play the 2 rolls and in solo Q I have beaten the SM and also in premade.
The SM is not broken, it just forces survis to play smart and give hooks early in the game to break the 3gen. If they do it and break the 3gen the SM will have lost the game.
The SM has no potential in chase, if at least 3 survs steal drons then she loses a lot of her potential to take care of 3gen.
Don't tell me she is invincible, because you are afraid to play properly.
What is really worrying is that there is a team with more than 550 wins.
The perks they use should be analyzed and the necessary nerfs should be applied.
It is more probably to face that team that abuses resources and tools than to face the SM that defeated them.
In short, if you can't take on a SM, you just don't know how to play and that's your problem and not the others.
Make a SWF, and play me on Skull Merchant. You can play any map you want. You can bring any items except toolboxes and BNPs.
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@AssortedSorting said:
Well now I’m confused on their Perk/Power ideology given that Skull Merchants addons impact skillchecks generated by Perks.
While the RNG of the Overcharge skillcheck is where its position is, the 1s delay is enough warning to prepare to try and hit even the closest one. This should be anticipated in the event that the generator looks to be regressing against a Killer using it, even in the event that the skill-check notification is suppressed due to her Shotgun Speakers addon. However I can see the annoyance in repeated application in quick succession when the last generators are only in a small zone. Could warrant a cooldown.
However her Oppression skillcheck isn’t predictable when under the effect of the Shotgun Speakers Addon.
Oppression has an 80s cooldown and only regresses 10%. Overcharge has infinite uses and regresses as much as old Pain Res.
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Doesn't work. Their exposed is tied to a power timer, not a status effect timer.
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None of these changes would fix her ability to 3-gen. All she has to do is down the person with a trap with her massive speedboost to recover the drone and go back to camp the 3-gen. She needs her power scrapped and redesigned.
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Nurse is fine, just break LOS.
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@BlightedDolphin said:
Is there anywhere I can watch this match? There is so much conflicting information in this thread that I have no idea what actually happened.
Check KnightLight's twitter. It's basically 50 minutes of genkick and slowly getting more and more cocky while pushing out leading to the 3-gen breaking.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3489315#Comment_3489315
If you've ever played 5D chess, you can just barely begin to understand the complexity of the greatest and most wonderful character Adriana.
Something something every pallet is a pawn something something
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@ClownGuy5 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3489287#Comment_3489287
Its not free when you have to take time to kick the gen and hope a surv doesnt miss a skillcheck which rlly only affects newer players. Mediocre to pros should land the skillcheck 9/10.
Sure make it only take like 8% but at the rate with gen regression perks it will just make things worse.
Now for a sidenote if they are the best comp team how are they missing an overcharge skillcheck that many times? OC skillcheck is not the size of an atom. If SM had the add on that makes skillchecks smaller then forget this entire statement.
She didn't have the addon, no. Which is even funnier, because if she did, they would have failed it way more than they already did. But they also were expected to hit the skill check on the run, hundreds of times throughout the trial. The issue isn't with hitting the skill check, it's with a free difficult, unlimited skill check that applies additional gen regression if failed.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3489329#Comment_3489329
do you not see anything wrong with this? your post is blaming skull merchant for 630% generator regression+125 gen-kicks. you get 312% gen regression+all over-time regression. your almost nearing 1000%+ regression. this is why I don't understand pulsar or edgarpoop. Many killer player ask for this and faster regressing generator. your living the consequence of those requests.
I'm not blaming SM, I'm saying her kit exacerbates the problem, but also exposes it: overcharge still needs nerfs.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3489320#Comment_3489320
every generator kick is 2.5% regression. 42x2.5% = 105% regression. that is enough regression for an entire full gen. it is dangerous to allow killer to continuously regress generator effectively because of that 3 gen gameplay. At least they won after 50 minutes. I am sure pre-patch, it would been hostage game. i think the long games like that need a faster ending like the hatch but that is just my opinion.
Did you miss what I said? I didn't say the killer kicked gens 42 times, I said the survivors failed the SKILL CHECK 42 times. The number of times the killer kicked gens is far too many to count in one lifetime. And 105% regression is absolutely nothing when the game lasted 50 minutes. 105% regression is just barely 94.5s of aggregate gen time. The total gen regression (along with the basekit 2.5%) counting Overcharge is 735%, with 630% coming from OC skill checks alone.
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@pseudechis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3489305#Comment_3489305
Yeah because it sounds like they played that poorly.
Sure skull merchant needs some tweaks as she does the 3 gen lockdown a lil too well.
But even the best survivors in the world are still human and humans are great at screwing up.
Moreso if under pressure by not performing at peak. If they are missing multiple skill checks, even with the stacked perks and addons then that doesn’t sound like peak performance to me.
Well done to them for breaking go the 3 gen but I’ll do the one thing no one here is done yet and say…
Well done to the killer for holding off the supposed “best team in the world” for 50 mins.
Shame the killer couldn’t pull of a win but that demonstrates against high performing teams the SK 3 gen is a delaying tactic not a winning tactic. It’s just in regular games casual players give up quicker making it a winning tactic.
They are arguably the most synchronized team in the entire game. Even compared to other comp teams, they absolutely dominate. If THEY had a hard time breaking the 3-gen, and it almost shut the game down, then what does it matter that it's a "stalling tactic" instead of a "winning tactic". Also, the only reason they were able to break the 3-gen is the streamer started to lose patience and left the 3-gen more and more often and they were able to build progress.
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3489309#Comment_3489309
The killer applied Overcharge 42 times in that match. There is not a single person in DbD who is going to hit 42 consecutive Overcharge skill checks in a tight 3 gen situation.
It's not even that the killer applied OC 42 times, it's that the survivors FAILED OC 42 times. Imagine how many times the perk was applied for them to fail it that many times, considering they were hitting it very consistently.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3489308#Comment_3489308
i don't know. I played dbd in a time where I had to play against old hex:ruin every... single game. that was truly a polarizing experience. some games, i had to do all 5 gens under that hex:ruin effect. I don't even know if survivor would ever put up with that perk if it was like that today. If skill-check is too hard, perhaps they can make it easier I guess. doctor has snap out mechanic. maybe make skill-check as big as snap out though some people might still miss.
...and now, skillcheck Ruin doesn't exist anymore, because the design was unfair. You're making my point for me: if a perk is designed egregiously, then it should rightfully get changed. Overcharge gives you the same regression that old Pain Res did for nothing more than a missed skill check, which you can immediately apply again by kicking the gen, and again and again and again, with absolutely no strings attached. This is problematic, and to an even greater extent that old Pain Res was (at least, there, you had to earn the hook, instead of it being free). Either the skill check must be made dramatically easier to hit, or it must function on a cooldown/token basis. There is no excuse for perk to continue to exist as it does currently, especially since BHVR has made it abundantly clear that free gen regression is unhealthy.
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@Komi said:
So because players have invested the time to play a killer in a way that they can face actual top competitive survivors and win, it means they should have it taken away? Im all for the idea that everyone should be allowed their fun but it goes both ways, the SkullM mains did nothing wrong but put their strength in late-game which should be allowed even if its "not fun". Personally I never understood the hate for long matches, sure 20min is the sweet spot but it isnt a mandatory rule.
Players that invest time into learning to play a killer are already rewarded: look at Blight/Nurse/Wesker mains. They dominate in chase and use the killer's power to its fullest. The killer's power is designed in a way to be mechanically challenging, and rewards mechanical skill and prediction.
Now look at Artist, Trapper, and Hag. All of whom reward the killer for knowing common loops and give them a way to shut them down against strong survivors. Both of which require a moderate amount of game knowledge to apply, and in the case of Artist, some timing and gamesense as well.
Basically, almost every killer in the game has some form of interactivity to them, in some way or another. Now, let's look at Skull Merchant (and to a lesser extent, Knight). Here is the most optimal way to play the killer:
Equip genkick perks and Sloppy.
Identify the best 3-gen on the map.
Immediately beeline to the 3-gen and set up your drones.
Patrol your 3-gen and slowly chip away at the resources around it.
Continuously kick your gens and ensure they're at 0%.
Get downs if and when survivors permit, and hook them inside the 3-gen whenever possible.
Continue until you win.
There is absolutely nothing skillful, engaging, or interactive about this playstyle. It exacerbates one of DBD's most egregious tactics on the killer side (3-genning) on a killer whose entire kit has only one functionality: to 3-gen. If the devs are fully aware that 3-gens are a mistake - as they've already stated and emplaced Deja Vu as a temporary band-aid fix until they address them - then there shouldn't be a killer whose sole strength relies in abusing this mechanic and turning games into a slogfest where you win due to boredom and attrition.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3489287#Comment_3489287
but failing skill-check is skill issue. how is that the killer's problem? overcharge punishes survivor for gen-tapping if they fail skill-checks and you need to gen-tap in 3 gens to break 3 gens. it is not skull merchant problem, it is a perk problem that can be solved by playing survivor better.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3489267#Comment_3489267
but skull merchant is at no fault for survivors missing the skill-check.
So the best survivor team in the world not being able to consistently hit Overcharge isn't proof enough that the skill check is hard to hit?
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@Xendritch said:
is there a link the a vod?
I don't want to link it, I don't want to seem like I'm shaming the streamer. Look up KnightLight's twitter for a screenshot of the endgame. The SM's stream has a VOD of the game.
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@ClownGuy5 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/384292/we-need-to-talk-about-skull-merchant
Its not a design flaw its how it works and makes it unique.
Instead of instant regression and a surv just tapping once to negate a the whole point of it OC makes it so that surv get punished for tapping a gen or missing a skillcheck in general.
A cooldown for the skillcheck when a surv does miss the skillcheck would be fine tho.
The issue is it provides free powerful regression, which is exactly what the problem was with old COB/Overcharge. For simply missing one skill check, you lose 13.5s of progress from your gen. Either make the skill check regress only 5%, or add a huge cooldown to it. It shouldn't incentivize killers to continuously kick gens and hope they get the one teammate that always fails them, especially so on SM or Doctor.
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No. This is a non-existent problem, and it doesn't need a fix.
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The main problem with SM is she has no good playstyles outside of an extremely tedious one. For other killers (like Singularity, Knight, Trapper, Hag), their powers can be used to hold 3 gens but they also can be used in other ways. For SM, the only function her power has is literally just objective defense. If you put it down at a loop, they either leave it for the next one or stay if they're injured. It simply doesn't work as a chase power. Her only viable playstyle is extremely dull to play against.
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I'm confused, what exactly are killers supposed to do?
Gen regression = bad, we should be able to genrush
Tunneling = bad, killer should have to 12 hook every game
Camping = bad, I should be able to get a free save every game
Slugging = bad, I don't like having to get off a gen to go pick up someone
Blight/Nurse/Wesker = bad, I should be able to camp pallets and be completely safe
Hit and run = bad, I don't like having to heal to work safely on gens
What tools do killers have left? You can't nerf your way to an easy win every time.
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Sounds really underbaked tbh
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I wish more survivors would understand this:
TUNNELING IS A LEGIT TACTIC.
You have perks to offset it, you have oversaturated maps, you have MFT, you have gen efficiency. The more you try to nerf every little thing a killer can do, the more Blights/Nurse/Spirits you will run into. You can't nerf your way to an easy win every time. If any more changes are made to tunneling, killers need basekit corrupt and deadlock.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3487290#Comment_3487290
Cool story but this is not reality of game. Next.
If you're not interested in having a conversation, then neither am I.
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@LibidinousPsyche said:
This skill really needs to be updated because it's pointless when you get strung with out a chance to unhook someone, especially at the start of a game. This skill needs to be able to work on the 2nd hook especially if you haven't used it already. I get so tired of having unhooked a survivor, and not using this skill yet, but already been strung up, and it shows I can use it on the 2nd hook knowing you can't. This is a dead skill and wasted space if you get strung up with out unhooking someone first, because even if you unhook someone after that, it shows useable, but of course it's not. Fix this for gawds sake. Who wants to carry around a dead skill. You have to do 2 things to use this ######### skill, first off you need to not get strung up with out a unhook on a team mate first, 2nd it has to be the first hook. Most all the other skills are useable throughout the game over and over.
Deliverance is top 3 survivor perks currently, along with Off the Record and Made For This. OTR is literally 3 perks in one, and MFT is busted and will 100% get nerfed here in the future soon.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3486887#Comment_3486887
Or maybe we should get anti-tunnel mechanic or perk which makes survivor lose collision. Let's say for 60 seconds.
Survivor can't use it as weapon. Killer can't chase them.
Ofcourse this will make tunnelling less viable but for cost, they can buff killers in general.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3486900#Comment_3486900
Hey Mr Killer, please don't down me here. I am on dead zone right now, my DS will be wasted because i have not any loop near. Can you please get me down next to shack. Thank you so much!
You realize you have the agency to run wherever you want to as long as you have DS? If you choose to run to a deadzone and get downed, and waste your DS, that's on you. Realizing that you have a free wiggle off the killer's shoulders, you should probably run to a safe tile, greed the pallet until you get downed, then instantly drop it after DS.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3486705#Comment_3486705
No, because it's still better to just smack that person off of hook and continue to tunnel.
Tunneling needs to be re-balanced in the base-game, not through perks.
You already have a basekit anti-tunnel measure in the form of BT, and survivors are already weaponizing it to take hits off hook for their unhooker. Maps are already saturated with safe pallets and safe loops enough. If the killer hits you off hook (whether you have OTR or not), you have a speedboost and the killer is stuck in recovery animation, letting you make it to the next tile to waste more time and let your team do gens. If the killer tries to wait out BT and you have OTR, you're effectively playing with 3 S-tier chase perks for the next 80s when they decide to hit you, not to mention your unhooker can take a hit for you as well.
Tunneling can be addressed when survivors can't finish all 5 gens in 3 minutes without any speed perks or items. If survivors can rush their objective, killer should be able to rush theirs as well.
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Let me get this straight:
80 seconds of endurance+iron will+distortion isn't enough? THREE perks in one off-hook for 80s isn't enough of an anti-tunnel?
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The final boss is a P100 bunny Feng with No Mither and a flashlight.
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Slam duration already increases movement speed.
Foxglove and Canker are both useless because they don't affect M1 miss fatigue, and you almost always waste time doing regular fatigue.
Shredded Notes are fine. Removing the downside just makes it stupid strong.
Vial is fine, maybe slightly reduce the shortened recharge rate, or remove the 10% speed. Otherwise, it's fine. The two extra rushes compensate for the fact Blight has to waste more rushes going around obstacles he could just glide around normally.
Crow and Rat are fine.
Turning Alch Ring into a stronger version of Crow is the wrong way to go on about it. Make it instantly recharge 2 tokens and it's perfect. It functions in the same way where it rewards a hit with a shortened recovery, and it rewards you for using less rush tokens. Or, you could make it grant 100% recovery to tokens for 5 seconds after landing a hit (half recharge rate).
Iri Vial just needs Hindered removed completely, and the stun extended slightly.