dbdthegame
dbdthegame
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@Lexidoll said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3498067#Comment_3498067
Your sense entitlement is unreal. People don't have to play against you if they don't want to. The only reason the DC penalty is there is because people would mass DC the nanosecond they went against nurse and behaviour is incapable of seeing their mistakes so we got the penalty instead.
If people aren't enjoying playing against you. they're within their right to give you the free win.
And if you want killing yourself on first hook to be "bannable" then so should tunnelling people off hook. because functionally it's the same thing of removing 1 person from the game too early and leaving the rest of the survivors with no odds of escaping.
But of course "tunnelling is a valid strategy" and if you think that. so is dying as fast as possible "a valid strategy" for getting into the next match.
Even ignoring all that, if survivors DC against you enough for you to whine about it on the forums. maybe you should invest in a mirror? Because getting to the point of complaining about this is proven you're incapable of seeing that your play style is making survivors matches miserable.
Holy analogies, Batman. Okay, let's break down this post.
If someone doesn't want to play a game, they have the option to DC. They eat a penalty, and their team is given a bot. Everyone loses, but the DCer gets what they wanted. If the person isn't willing to eat the penalty, they can play the game through. Hookicide is a loophole that lets them circumvent the DC penalty while achieving what they want, but in the letter of the rules, it is unsportsmanlike conduct. And you call ME entitled for telling someone they shouldn't look for loopholes and eat the DC penalty?
Tunneling off hook can throw an entire game for a killer, assuming the tunneled person knows what they're doing. It is a valid strategy that gives every other survivor on the map ample time to crank out gens unbothered, until the tunnel-out goes down again. It's not a circumvention of any mechanic set in place to let the killer achieve an earlier kill, it is playing entirely within the rules, and is an efficient strategy for the killer (just the same way splitting on gens across the map is an efficient strategy for the killer). A killer tunneling is LITERALLY doing their job as a killer (to kill), a survivor killing themslves on hook is doing the opposite of what they should be doing (to survive). But remember, I'm the entitled one, not the person playing whataboutism and making some of the most unholy analogies I've ever read.
I actually DO get quite upset when people try to suicide against me as a killer. Not because they don't think I'm "fun to play against" (I really couldn't care less if people find me fun or not to play against), but because I also occasionally play survivor, and I occasionally play solo Q, and I absolutely despise when someone offs themselves on hook because we basically get no chance at all. In fact, when I do spot someone who's trying to suicide on hook; if and when they get unhooked by a farming teammate, you can bet I WILL find them, and I WILL down them, and I WILL slug them while BMing over their slug, and I WILL let their teammates get a 3-out, and I WILL let them bleed out as they watch it unfold in front of them. There is nothing that aggravates me more than a person that thinks their time is so much more important than the other 4 people playing the game with them that they'll circumvent a mechanic set in place (that leaves their team much worse off) just to avoid a 1 minute MM ban. But remember, I'm the entitled one.
Any more fallacies you wanna get off your chest? It was quite fun piecing your post apart.
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@ScytheIX said:
The moment you notice more and more people any%-ing out of a game, it should tell you that something is fundamentally wrong with it. DC bots are a bandaid on a bullet hole.
But that doesn't give anyone the right to dictate what other people are and aren't allowed to do (if it's not against ToS).
I will hookicide if I play against a Clown because I get sick in his bottles. I will do the same against a Dull Merchant. I will also do it if my team doesn't even attempt to save me, after I ran the killer for 4 gens. The same goes the other way around. If I play killer, everyone may get themselves out of the game however they please. It is not MY right to tell them to stay.
People hookiciding want to play the game, but the fundamental flaws make it impossible or unenjoyable for them. Asking them to eat a DC penalty is the worst take I've seen so far.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3499063#Comment_3499063
Also thanks for being a smart one Pulsar. Probably the most sane person here. Have a cookie and a glass of milk.
All I'm hearing is entitlement. You are playing a game fully aware that those killers exist in it. If you're not willing to play the game, there's a penalty for giving up early.
There is indeed an issue with the community, and it is entitlement. Went down too fast in first chase? DC. Killer is good? DC. Killer is using xyz perk? DC. If I run the killer for 3 minutes and no gen gets done, I really don't care. I don't expect much from solo Q, and I had fun running the killer. That said, if someone hookicides, we really have no chance left.
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Sounds like a skill issue. Scene Partner is a fantastic chase perk. I've been running it since release. Every 60s, you get an aura read on killer. It's saved me so many times from a mindgame in chase.
If you're running the perk, you should have the awareness not to look towards the killer if it's active.
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@tkwmm said:
The Perk alone is fine, just make it doesn't synergy with For the People, then killer can counter it by pick up downed survivor before getting healed. This make the perk somehow anti slugging. Which encourage both survivor and killer play strategically.
You can't pick up a survivor if FTP happens during attack cooldown.
@ExpertKingz said:
Disagree heavily that Buckle Up is the problematic perk. Without FTP’s ability to instantly heal a downed survivor, Buckle Up is very niche in effect. To gain value from the new endurance effect without FTP, you’d need:
-A survivor to be slugged for some time
-To fully heal that survivor
-To have the killer be close nearby as the heal is completed and hit you within 10 seconds
These situations do not happen overly frequently in matches, and have fair counterplay from the Killer, as they can choose to interrupt the heal or not slug the survivor if they know Buckle Up is in play. Also, this is the first time Buckle Up has ever been moderately useful in the meta, so I’d prefer it to not be nerfed into oblivion. The simple solution is to simply change FTP so that heals done using it do not activate Buckle Up. This is already the case with MFT’s endurance effect, so there is no reason why this is not already the case.
To address your point that FTP should not be changed as it is already underused, this change already applies to MFT and FTP combo, so there is no reason why this shouldn’t happen again with Buckle Up. Just because a perk is niche and fairly underused doesn’t mean it isn’t effective and should be allowed to have overpowered combos when used with other perks.
FTP is already an A tier perk. And picking up slugs is not at all uncommon. Slugging in general is very strong, which is why Unbreakable is considered an S tier perk. In the scenarios where BU gets value (entire team slugged or injured), the value is insane. It doesn't need to be any stronger than it currently is. Not to mention it functions as a straight upgrade to WGLF.
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There's a lot of addons and perks that reveal themselves in that way. The point of the addon is to make solo escaping from traps impossible, and it does that.
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Ackshually she has counterplay
Let's stop for a second and ponder on this proposition. Nurse is a killer in the game, and killer players sometimes want to play her. What happens if we give an option for players to start banning killers they don't want to play against? Nurse queue times skyrocket to an hour.
Learn the counterplay and stop complaining.
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Hello Zepp chase music would be WICKED.
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Aye, it's a real embarrassment. It's a shame too, because ETR has shown a lot of class in the past. They've had sets that they won because of a penalty on the other team, that they were okay restarting because they didn't want to win on a technicality. It's shameful that someone would get demolished then dig so deep for a reason why they shouldn't have lost.
@DredgeyEdgey said:
Here's the thing the rule makes sense
if nick cage was as quite as ace that's an immediate advantage
We know he's not quiet but the rule makes sense
Ace and Ada are both allowed. What's your point?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3499051#Comment_3499051
Holy ######### worst take.
Genuine disability? Doesn't matter, YOU MUST PLAY REEEEEE
Reminds me of the flashlight clicking debate. "If you can't handle randomly strobing lights and flashlight macros that are completely preventable, you're fault, don't play DBD."
I didn't say he must play, I said he had the option to DC. I'm all for accessibility features letting people with disabilities play more comfortably, but the fact of the matter is flashlights affected basically every killer game and Doctor affects much fewer games. Hookicides leave his team down a man and basically loses them the game, and DCing gives them a bot that may or may not be useful.
I can empathize, but at the end of the day, there's other people in the game too who are hoping to get a proper game, and someone's disability doesn't entitle them to circumvent the DC penalty and lose the game for their team. Take the DC penalty and move on.
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@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3499048#Comment_3499048
I never said whether I DC or not actually. A lot of times I Do try to push through and play anyway (especially if I am with friends) but all my friends know that if the Killer is Doctor I'm going to be completely useless especially with that addon. I was merely saying that if someone does need to DC against certain killers for accessibility reasons, I understand. If its just because you don't like The Legion's "healing simulator" gameplay, then that's completely different.
Besides, it was pointed out that admitting or advocating for DCing is against forum rules, so I have tried to be very careful to explain my reasons for not being able to effectively play against The Doctor without breaking forum rules, and here you are telling me I am selfish and entitled for NOT breaking forum rules.
Also, The Doctor isn't nearly as bad as he used to be. The visual effects of his gameplay has been toned down A LOT. That also helps me to somewhat tolerate him.
Oh, I'm not against DCing. Well, I am, but not to the same level as hookicide. Don't get me wrong, bots are useless so DCing is still a throw, but hookicide doesn't even give your team a bot and circumvent the DC penalty. That's specifically what the thread is about.
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@Ariel_Starshine said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3499024#Comment_3499024
A little empathy can go a long way :) Just because of one killer is a problem for someone with sensory overload doesn't mean they should skip the whole game, they aren't forcing themselves, they just have to avoid one killer.
Plenty of folks avoid the Plague because if they hear vomiting it will induce it on them.
Also idk if I posted this already but sometimes people want to leave due to cheaters, or kiting a killer for 5 minutes to see zero generators done, I've had people say "welp, my teammates are doing nothing that whole time, I'm not down for this" so they leave on hook.
There are many reasons people leave, these are just some, and justifiable.
As for me I do my best and when I'm out I'm out! Onto next, no big deal. It's just a game. Also doesn't bother me if someone leaves via hook, I don't take this game that seriously, there will be more matches.
I'll show empathy, but being disabled doesn't give you special privileges in my book. You don't get to suicide on hook because you don't enjoy the killer. At the end of the day, there's four other players in the match with you who are hoping to play out a full game, and suicide on hook early ruins the game for them entirely. The DC button already exists to cover this; it's an intended feature which discourages disconnecting from a game but it is an option. Exercise that option instead of looking for loopholes.
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@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3499024#Comment_3499024
The Doctor is a single killer out of.. like what 32 now?
That's like asking why someone with coulrophobia would ever consider playing Dead by Daylight. You don't run into The Clown that often, but if someone has Coulrophobia, they might need to quit that match, and whatever way they decide to do so should be respected.
Or there are those that just can't handle vomit. When they see the killer is Plague, they have to leave. Again, she's a single killer out of many.
What it boils down to is, everyone has a reason for not wanting to play against certain killers, and the legitimacy of our reasons or our choice to play the game the rest of the time is our choice not yours.
Either way, you already have an option ingame to avoid that killer: the Disconnect button. You incur a penalty for not playing out the game, and your team gets a subpar bot, but it's better than being down a man. Why do you feel like your disability entitles you to the right to throw for your team in a 1/32 chance (it's actually higher, considering the doctor is fairly popular?
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@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3497674#Comment_3497674
Sensory Overload when playing against The Doctor (especially when he is using that Iridescent Queen addon.) Of course, as you are even asking, I'm wasting my time giving that as an answer because someone who does not experience the pain of sensory overload cannot comprehend what it's like.
Why would you force yourself to play a game if you have a disability that physically prevents you from being able to do so?
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@CatnipLove said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3498899#Comment_3498899
It's not unconditional. You have to be (and) stay injured. Meaning you're not gonna be healing mid chase. You may disagree that it's not restrictive enough but it is conditional. BHVR could add more requirements to it and it would still be a good perk though.
Being injured isn't even worthy of being considered a condition. Most teams spend the entire game injured. Not to mention you can 99 your heal with a medkit, with a perk like Resilience, and repair 9% faster as well as loop better, then pop your heal whenever you're deadzoned and about to take a hit.
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@DavidHypnos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3498822#Comment_3498822
You don’t have to. Map offerings aren’t that common to begin with.
I literally see them in 3/5 games when I play late night games on killer.
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@CatnipLove said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3498774#Comment_3498774
I personally have no strong feelings about MFT. I don't own it and I have no interest in it as it has no real interesting applications for me. I like things such as the pebble or Plot Twist (Become as Roadkill). It's a perk that does help you reach safety in situations you would otherwise get downed in. It should do that as otherwise it's completely useless as a haste perk.
I can agree that the perk should not have any secondary functions. It's a good perk with only the haste effect. The secondary function also overlaps with other perks, making them somewhat redundant. That shouldn't occur so it's removal seems uncontroversial to me.
I really am against BHVR's strategy of nerfing whatever is popular. It results in a bunch of watered down perks that leave gameplay feeling stale on both sides. I'd rather other playstyles were buffed so running other options felt appealing. I'm all for busted stuff going. BU + FTP is kind of stupid to the point I would 100% support BHVR if they decide to remove it's synergy. The 3% haste by itself I don't see as an issue, although I'm less sure about MFT + Hope. In isolation, both are fine. But I can see an argument for the removal of it's synergy, despite Hope being an end game only perk.
MFT isn't fine on its own. You're also missing my point entirely. I'm not arguing that it shouldn't do its job as a Haste perk, I'm saying that it shouldn't BE a Haste perk, because Haste is simply too strong. If it will have a built in Haste effect, it has to be conditional somehow. I wouldn't be opposed to seeing it provide something like a 5-7% Haste for 10-20s after finishing a heal (pairs with the Endurance you get) and removing the Endurance from picking up slugs (as it overlaps with BU). In this configuration, the perk is balanced and still interesting, but still strong. You can use it on a medic build and essentially guarantee a heal+a hit if killer is pressuring a reset.
My main point being: Haste should NEVER be given unconditionally (to either survivors or killers).
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@Sharby said:
I can't wait for Resilience to be on the public chopping block next since it's basically MFT.
Resilience isn't basically MFT. Resilience provides a mild increase in vault speed and gen speed. It also only provides benefits on vaults, and only fractions of a second instead of entire seconds tacked on to the chase. All it does is let a survivor MAYBE make a window/pallet they wouldn't have otherwise.
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@CatnipLove said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3498712#Comment_3498712
Why do survivor perks need to have downsides? Like I said to another person on here, the roles for killers and survivors are different. The majority of the players are solo queue survivors. That role requires a bunch of skill that the killer doesn't need to have. As survivor you need to be able to work with and around your teammates with limited information. You can't do the gens and escape unless the team is somewhat coordinated and their actions can often lead to your death. In that environment there's a lot things that require skill so it isn't necessary to bog survivors down with a ton of perk requirements. When I play killer at least I don't have to account for anyone other than myself. That's a massive part of the game I don't need to deal with (requires less skill). But that's fine as I will be utilising skill for other aspects of the match.
The role of both sides feels so different that I don't think you can make a comparison between perks requirements, as skill expression occurs in different aspects of the match for both sides.
I'm actually the person that said the roles aren't created equally. I didn't say survivor perks needed to have downsides, I said MFT shouldn't be as strong as it is. It provides too much upside, which is true, with the only downside of needing to be injured when doing so. The downside to activate the perk is negligible, and the effect it gives is extremely powerful. That's been my entire argument this whole time.
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@nodforkiss said:
sorry but I disagree. you can use offerings as both sides (which is fair) and maybe I just like play in gideon and garden of joy as survivor, midwich and lery's as killer?
I don't doubt you like playing on those maps. I too like being given easy wins. However, it shouldn't be up to either side's volition whether or not they will get an easy win that game.
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@CatnipLove said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3498613#Comment_3498613
There's plenty of killer mains who are playing against the perk and have no issue with it, and they aren't just using the top tiers. Telling people who disagree with you that their opinion means nothing because *insert whatever excuse you feel like* is an incredibly dishonest way of debating anything.
Your experience of the game is not the only one. Even if you find 20 players who agree with you on here, that's still not a representation of the overall player experience. Maybe instead of telling killer players that they are playing against bad survivors when they disagree with you, you might want to consider the possibility that you are getting outplayed. That's also a possibility.
Common consensus doesn't matter when it comes to balancing. Game shouldn't be balanced around mob rule because there are far more survivor players than killer players. If a perk is objectively broken, it must be nerfed. The COH nerf was unpopular, as were both DH and DS nerfs, as is the current MFT nerf proposal. The perk is beyond broken and provides far too much upside for far too little downside. It is strictly superior to almost every one of its alternatives, making it objectively overpowered.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3498667#Comment_3498667
It's no less than you've accused of me and others.
"You're not going against good survivors if you don't have an issue with MFT"
It sounds like you are a better survivor than you are a killer. That's not an insult, just an observation based on your accounts.
I'm at an 80/20 split between killer and survivor, so I'm most definitely a killer main. I also 1v1 quite frequently, and I've done the experiment with and without MFT. If you're using any killer without a chase power, MFT will destroy you.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3498657#Comment_3498657
Most of the killer roster has NO chance of winning whatsoever without gen reg perks,
Absolutely not true, I rarely use regression perks, outside of the odd CoB (for info) and maybe very rarely Jolt.
This makes it all the more clear why you think MfT is the end of the world. You have a victim complex tied to your killer bias, and are likely not skilled enough for the MMR bracket you've boosted yourself into by relying on crutch perks.
Ah yes, the "I know my MMR and yours and I'm a better player!" argument. Do you wanna play me and my SWF without any gen reg perk using a low-tier killer? Also we'll bring MFT just for the lolz.
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@Mushwin said:
Sorry but surv mains have to deal with the constant gen regression perks etc.
Ok and? Most of the killer roster has NO chance of winning whatsoever without gen reg perks, even with a major fumble by the survivors. The roles are not created equally; every second the killer spends doing something is 4 seconds the survivors have. If a perk allows a survivor to extend a chase even by 30s, that's 1:30 that the survivor buys for his teammates.
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@Mushwin said:
Maybe BHVR needs to up the weaker killers? -shrugs-
I agree, but also shouldn't create a perk that exacerbates the problem of killers not having antiloop. Not every killer will have an antiloop, and that's okay. Haste is an extremely powerful status effect that shouldn't be given out to survivors with almost no condition.
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@Kenpo_Kid69 said:
I play all the killers, never ran into a problem where Made for This was making me unable to kill survivors. Also killers have plenty of ways to increase their own speed or to counter Made for This. In fact all 3 of Singularity's perks counter Made for This in their own unique way. Perk is fine.
Ah yes, the daily "I can never get value from this perk so it sucks!" post. If you've never run into someone using MFT that gave you problems, then you're playing against bad survivors. And if you've never gotten value from MFT, that's the opposite of a brag.
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@WingerSenpai said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3498462#Comment_3498462
Just asking (I seriously question the correct ammount) How many loops of that size exist with those conditions? And how many pallets are almost unplayable? Because in that case look at the opposite as well. Also scenarios exist where other killers fair better against different things too. And to the clip: a 99'd SB wouldve done the same.
And a comment to you looking at my post history: Ruin one was before it got reworked and BBQ gave 100% bp bonus for free so constant use and too much benefit for nothing, and I stay firm on the Wesker topic of him being overplayed, overloaded, and bugged via hitboxes, well the overplayed part until the last patch when my games consisted of 60-80% of them playing against Wesker. But nice try trying to look at my post history and making me look bad.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3498469#Comment_3498469
Okay then let's stay on topic:
Made For This is 1-3% Haste when Injured And 10 sec Endurance when healing a state (just have to heal to change the state not a full health state), can't be used while exhausted, but won't cause exhaustion, correct? As far as the wiki is correct, yes.
2 Things with the perk:
- 1 you have to be injured to make any use of it, so any form of exposed basicly breaks the perk any time you hit a healthy survivor and exposed perks are most of the times fair.
- Neither of the perks effects are useable while exhausted by any means, so you have a ton of ways to counter it the most relevant one being fearmonger or if the survivor is not the sharpest sometimes they counter themselves. Main point is it's a sort of risk reward perk, that you don't get an exhaustion perk with short term benefits but get a long term small boost.
Besides the perk you mention endurance from other perks. Why are they exactly hard to track of?
OTR: if you wanna make use of the 80 seconds renders you useless for your team for that duration, but people like to tunnel so that warrants the perks existance there,
BT: does this too but for 10 seconds with the speed boost lasting +10 seconds too so those are anti tunnel perks, which lose effect after literally touching anything that's objective related (gens/heals/totems etc.).
DH: needs to be timed and 0,5 second window is not the easiest to hit especially when the killer huddles up to you, and the perk can be used 2 times/survivor/game, and it gives a 40 sec exhaustion.
Styptic is 5 sec and eats a med-kit, so thats a variable.
Buckle up/MFT/Soul Guard/WGLF are the only ones that can confuse you, depending on who you hit but it's not impossible to comprehend it.
Also only 1 endurance can protect you at a time basicly besides Mettle of Man which overwrites a hit. But if you still look at it all of them have a condition still :)
As for the other guy's clip, he was giving a specific example where a survivor would NEVER have been able to make a pallet except with MFT. It works on a smaller extent on smaller loops, like shack, or jungle gyms, or TLs, or filler pallets. It works on very safe loops, and makes them even safer. Yes, a 99'd SB would have had the same effect, but a 99'd SB would have also had that player running around with their 99 SB being useless while outside of chase, then only using it in chase as a one time measure, after which they run at regular speed. It's not something that provides value as you run from safe pallet to safe pallet, and even looping unsafe pallets like the one in that clip.
Wesker isn't bugged in any way shape or form with hitboxes. However, he does have the only attack that "grabs" a survivor, so it makes ping hits look more egregious than with other killers like Huntress.
Fearmonger is extremely easy to wait out midchase, or even to get rid of as you hear the killer's TR approach you. Also, that's 25% of the killer's build dedicated to countering one perk which survivors may or may not have. Not to mention it makes 99'd SB much easier and helps those survivors.
There is no risk involved with using MFT. If you can loop the killer for longer than 35s while injured (which isn't a tall order), you've already gained more distance than you would have made with any other exhaustion perk. The only time other exhaustion perks are superior is for working on gens that are unsafe (next to hills/Z walls/out in the open) where a use of the exhaustion perk can let you get away from the gen scot-free. Any other time, MFT is far superior.
You obviously missed my point when I mentioned Endurance being so free now. I can obviously do detective work and have a good idea which perk it was, my problem is with the overabundance of Endurance of excessive duration, on so many perks. Endurance is a very strong status effect, and giving it unlimited uses with minimally invasive conditions is problematic. I've run into far too many MFT/Unbreakable/Buckle Up squads with Flashlights picking each other up with Endurance over and over again with absolutely no counterplay. And don't even get me started on the broken Buckle Up+FTP combo.
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3498440#Comment_3498440
Please enlighten me as to what the counter play to this is : https://streamable.com/whcaot
Killer plays the tile perfectly, yet because that "loop" was around 16s, MFT gave the Ada an extra 2 meters of distance over perkless and got a chase extension.
I keep telling people in these threads, re-watch any recent dbd video/stream, and count how many times a survivor with MFT made it to a pallet/Window right just in the nick of time and caused an undeserved chase extension.
Also from your post history, I see you've complained about wesker being "same old same old" , and "the game is stale seeing BBQ and ruin 5/5 times" if you see a problem with repetition on one side , hopefuly you can see a problem with survivors bringing MFT+Resi with Hope/Adren/WOO sprinked in every trial.
Smh don't you get it? He was supposed to run PWYF+Nemesis, then let himself get stunned for free, then drop chase, then come back and start chase all over, that's how you counter MFT. Then, he's supposed to do it again for every hit and every person that's running MFT. Smh baby killers nowadays want everything given to them for free. In my days, we had to antiloop INFINITES.
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@Luckyfer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3497721#Comment_3497721
That's not how RNG works.
You have 4% chance to unhook yourself,and 3 tries.
Yes, and 4% chance over three tries is ~11.5%. That's exactly why I said what I said.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3497437#Comment_3497437
You played Trapper and didn't have at least 2 traps up at shack?
I played Trapper on GoJ. It doesn't matter if I trap shack because every tile is extremely safe. And again, that's just one example. If I outplay a survivor on an M1 killer, there's no reason I shouldn't get a hit.
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3497464#Comment_3497464
I agree with your post. MFT is as good as survivor who uses it.I don't think the perk need change but some killer may dislike going against it so killer player should an option to run a consistent small bonus haste perk. The only consistent haste perk you can use now is pwyf but i am sure that @dbdthegame does not want to use that.
"just dedicate 25% of your build to counter one perk that survivors may or may not bring, that you need to farm stacks off your obsession for, that you lose a stack every time you M1" yeah, sounds just like the days of old COH where people were saying "just bring shattered hope bro!"
@WingerSenpai said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3498175#Comment_3498175
Funny... Imagine complaining about a good survivor perk after a long time while killer perks are still somewhat rancid to this day. The fun part is that you also wanna say that hope is overpowered with it. It is a fine combination for it's price in my opinion, since no matter how you look at it that's half of a survivors loadout, which only comes to fruition in the end game basicly.
While killers can run perks that almost exclusively circumvent the survivors from getting that far. Look at all the gen regression perks that the killers have at their disposal and yet for some reason it is still enough to run 1-2 of those to cause pain.
Also killers who are actually good will not complain about this perk/combination because they will know that the survivor who runs this makes a mistake is dead and can capitalize on this.
Now to give you a point about the old DH. It is fair that it was nerfed because it was a free time waster one way or another. Or the time when survivors effectively bugged out with DH or negated a hit after it should've taken effect. This time MFT is not that bad,
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3497464#Comment_3497464
As stated in here if you are bad it may save you like once or twice a game, but if you are good and consistent it wil look like that you are abusing the perk, but otherwise you shouldn't crack the whip over survivors because you will sound biased. Survivors nowadays don't get nearly as many chances with perks being good as killers.
But if the maps, tiles and buildings would be the way they used to be (infinites, loops that favor survivors horribly well) this complaint would be acceptable. But if I look at things the way you do but as a survivor main, then the following killer perks should be nerfed:
- SH: PR (just because 4*15% is too much)
- DMS (because why can it block any gens and why can it combo with PR)
- NOED (because it's boring and such an easy perk that gives almost a free kill or 2 if used at least decently)
- Eruption (because you still scream and 10 sec of aura read is too much)
- Jolt (because 10% for a down is too much)
- PGTW (Because 7-11*30% is too much)
yadi-yadi-yada... This list could go on for quite a while if I would be biased, but since I know that killer perks need to make a more significant impact that most survivor perks I'm not complaining half as much as some of the killers I met. Also besides killer perks, can we do a hot take on most killers basically spamming powers with close to 0 or very little cooldown just if we are at the point of complaining...
(Respect to the following killer tho: Huntress, because she actually needs way more mechanical skill because of aiming and punishability and Trapper for the limitation in resources)
I don't know why are the killers throwing tantrums constantly about survivor perks one at a time basically and getting stronger and stronger perks constantly yet survivors getting nerfs after nerfs but still having 2-3 good/strong perks is a sin. This reminds me more of a CoH state because it came in strong, all the killers started runing sloppy, and other heal slow down perks, the perk got nerfed to 50% self-heal speed, was still too strong, then along side with the second wave of nerfs making it a conditional empathy+botany*2 now its not nearly as good ever since the med-kits got gutted alongside the perks.
And let's take a word on killer add-ons:
- They offer various effects (not a bad thing, but the capability of stacking more than 3 effects on survivors by a single instance of killer power is just immense. , [Blindness, Exhaustion, Exposed, Hindered, Mangled, Hemorrhage])
- Some are overtuned for their rarity (Adrenaline Vial for Blight or Demo's Black Heart or Spirit's 2in1 add-ons buffing Haunt Duration/Speed/Recharge Rate [Finally got nerfed, Thank God] or Clown's speed slow add-ons)
- Some are completly useless, and/or irrelevant (multiple of Nurse's add-ons which have a better counterpart/are too niche/uncomfortable to use)
So if survivors get the treatment of "Let's make their items worse", then I think it's time for killers.
And I can already imagine that a lof of people seeing/commenting to my comment will be like: "You are the problem.", "Just another salty survivor main.". Call me what you want but it won't make me less entitled to my opinion. And keep in mind that the game can be just as dead without survivors as it can be without killers. So if survivors leave the game because it becomes far too killer sided killers can't play it either.
Survivors are stronger without perks than most killers are with full gen regression perks. Survivors don't NEED perks to be good, they are strong basekit. Most of the killers in the roster (save for like 2-3) NEED perks to stand a chance in most trials. MFT isn't just "good", it's actually broken. You wanna see good perks? Look at Nic Cage's perks. All of them give very strong effects, and yet all of them are balanced. Killer perks are rancid? Which exactly? COB+OC+Eruption got nerfed into the ground, PR got nerfed, it seems like every good gen reg perk is getting gutted.
I would argue MFT is even worse than old DH. Old DH was a one time thing that guaranteed a window/pallet. MFT is the same thing, except to a lesser extent but consistent any time you're injured and unexhausted. Either killer dedicates part of their build to inflict exhaustion (hoping that someone is running MFT), or they don't and they get slapped with MFT constantly.
Survivors should never get perks that allow them to extend chases as egregiously as 6.1.0 DH, or now MFT, because survivors can already stretch chases long enough for all gens to get done, and maps are safe enough to predrop every pallet and finish all gens twice over.
SH:PR already got nerfed, it's now 4x25%, and it gives no value if you use a white hook when there's no gen with progress. DMS is fine, just get off the gen as someone is being hooked (of course, it's bugged now with early hook effects). NOED has already been nerfed into the ground; NOED is literally the killer version of Adrenaline, an endgame second chance perk. Eruption only takes effect when someone goes down, at most, the 10s aura read gives the killer an idea of whether the survivor is committing or leaving. The 10% is barely enough to make up for the killer getting the pick up and making a hook. Jolt is 8%, might wanna double check those numbers, chief. Pop gives 30% of the TOTAL progress on a gen, and is probably one of the healthiest gen reg perks in a very long time.
But while we're on the subject of overpowered perks that need to be toned down, let's talk about survivors getting busted Endurance perks back to back. First, we get MFT, then we get Buckle Up rework. How many more ways to get Endurance do we need? At this point, it's so difficult to even tell what the perk was. Did the survivor have OTR? Was it MFT? Was it Buckle Up? A Styptic? DH? Mettle of Man?
This isn't gonna turn into a us vs them conversation. We're here to discuss MFT and that's all we're gonna discuss. I'm a killer main but I was actually one of the biggest proponents of nerfing old Eruption. I was also hugely in favor of nerfing old PR because it was oppressive in the same way that old Pop was. I'm also one of the biggest proponents of anti-facecamp measure now; I think they disproportionately affect solo Q and help SWF, and it's a very low effort way to build up pressure as killer. But now, MFT is broken, and we need to fix that.
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@DY86 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3497986#Comment_3497986
its a game not marriage LMAO i can commit and change my mind, as, again, its just a game. DBD doesn’t even have a Ranked or Competitve mode, so all ur ramblings are meaningless.
as abt ur scenario: again if I dont wanna play I won’t. Simple as that. Ill either commit hookicide, throw, dc or just wait in a corner while scrolling through IG. Preventing hookicide is a “baid aid fix” for something that will happen either way. Nothing will change and the devs themselves said that. So u can paint as many scenarios as u want, you’ll eventually just have to accept that as it is a fact, not a theory not a hypothesis but fact
Right, it's a game not marriage. If you change your mind, you don't need to hire a lawyer. There's already a feature in place that's called Disconnect where you can eat a penalty and leave the game instantly.
If a survivor isn't actively contributing to advancing the game (aka AFK at hook, AFK in a corner, chasing killer to get killed etc.) then that should be reportable as well. Let's toss it all under one umbrella and make the reports require video evidence. There you go, each case can be inspected individually.
"I should be able to leave any game I don't like penalty free with no regard for anyone else's time" This entitlement is unreal.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3497762#Comment_3497762
Regardless of why people miss skill checks, people do. I guess they want the bots to seem like a human is controlling them. AKA, making mistakes.
Bots don't perform like humans. They have terrible decision making, they will run across the map to do a chest instead of finishing a 99 gen at 1 gen remaining. They're incredibly inefficient in general and a hinderance to most teams, having them fail skill checks is just a slap in the face.
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@DY86 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3497880#Comment_3497880
u really have no understanding lmao ur gonna have mass reports and mass dcs this way creating a whole new problem. How is that less “bad” than hookicide? Lmao u will be one teammate short either way, at least!
as I said people will be out if they want out u dont see it but TG the Devs see it.
The mental gymnastics are strong. I'll break it down for you: you clicked "Ready", you queued up in a match with 4 other people, you load ingame, you made a commitment to play the game through. If you want to break that commitment, there is a deterrent in the form of a DC penalty. You can press escape, and click "Disconnect", and your team will be stuck with an underperforming bot, but it's something. You eat the penalty, your team has a bot, everyone is happy.
Now let's play that same scenario back but you throw and let killer down you for free, then you suicide on first hook. Your team is now playing with 3 players and you don't get a DC penalty. This is a way to circumvent the system already in place, and defending it shows insane levels of entitlement. You are not entitled to leave the game you committed to playing simply because you felt like it. Four other people are queued in the same game and expect to play it through, your time is not more important than theirs. It's simple: if you queue up for a game, either play it out, or DC and eat the penalty.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3497652#Comment_3497652
Actually yes. They have wallhacks. Can you imagine if they hit great skill checks consistently?
When did we go from good to great? They have wallhacks but they absolutely can't loop most filler pallets, they predrop pallets, they take inefficient pathing, they fail fast vaults a lot, and they don't know how to juke most killer powers. Managing to do a gen in 90s instead of failing every other skill check isn't a tall order for bots.
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3497516#Comment_3497516
No survivor playing serious is going to go for chests.. yeah it can come in handy in those very rare cases but those games you likely would have won anyway given there were survivors practically throwing or not caring about winning
So don't bring Hoarder if you don't think they're going for chests.
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@GHOSTfaceP3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3497674#Comment_3497674
Bc perks let you free yourself plus removing it would be a net negative, a lot of people would just leave the game
People would leave the game if suiciding on hook wasn't a thing? I haven't heard that one before. I sure didn't hear it for COH, Dead Hard, DS, medkits, now MFT... It seems like people will leave game for just about any reason.
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@ReikoMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3497675#Comment_3497675
They also miss skillchecks when the server weirds out or because they play on console where hitting skillchecks isn't as clean by default. There is also times where silent skillchecks are in play or the tremendously difficult 3 o'clock skillcheck where you need to basically hit it right when it spawn. People miss skillchecks when letting go of or tapping gens or being interrupted by the killer showing up. Space bars break, a cat jumps on the desk, you need to stand up. I could go on for literal hours name everything that can and has made someone miss a skillcheck.
Sometimes this game just flatout forces you to fail a skillcheck because as we all know, she a little buggy alotta the time in annoyingly small, but non game breaking ways.
With all that and more at play, people still hit skillchecks with a huge amount of accuracy. Bots are supposed to mimic average human play not be automated toolboxes with no imperfections whatsoever
So people miss skill checks through something that is outside of their control? Thank you for proving my point.
And this explains why bots should fail one in 5 skillchecks why exactly?
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3497674#Comment_3497674
You can free youself out
You have an 11.5% chance to unhook yourself. That's about a 1/9 chance. It's very obvious when a player is doing it deliberately to circumvent the DC penalty. This entitlement needs to go. If you queue up for a game, expect to play the game. If you don't like how fast you went down, play better. Don't punish your team for it. And if you do something that results in the team being unable to play, you should receive a penalty.
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@ReikoMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3497652#Comment_3497652
Hitting good skillchecks with 100% accuracy is abnormal. Not impossible, but not accurate to how real human beings play the game.
No matter how good you are at the game you will miss a skillcheck at some point for any number of reasons. No player has a 100% skillcheck hit rate. If I bought misses 1 out of 5 times that still 4 successful skillchecks which very good. If a bot hits a great skill 1 out of every 25 skillchecks that's more accurate to someone of average skill.
People miss skill checks when they're looking away from the screen, or their computer freezes, or they go for a Great and whiff. That's it.
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@Rudjohns said:
No
Give one argument for why they should still exist in the game, outside of being a loophole to get around DC penalty.
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@Ayodam said:
How do you know people aren’t actually trying to 4%?
Because they don't hit skill checks on stage 2, and try the 4% as someone is running to them to unhook them.
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@Ayodam said:
Maybe so killer mains don’t complain that bits are OP?
Hitting good skill checks consistently is OP?
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@[Deleted User] said:
Unless they're cursed the same way we are. Skill check randomly pops up after you let go of a gen.
In theory though they shouldn't ever miss skillchecks...in fact they should hit greats 100% of the time lol.
I've literally spectated a bot failing regular skill checks, back to back.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3496653#Comment_3496653
my opinion is that he is noob-stomper that is weak vs good players. he dominates bad players. His portals are difficult for a new player to counter because they're unreactable. you have to mindgame them to dodge them and that is high skill-floor for the survivor. it's kinda like old unnerfed slinger and nurse put together. I find him a very fair killer to go against when playing survivor vs him.
The problem is that he's too fair for a killer and by that i mean his anti-loop is too weak. he doesn't get rewarded enough for landing his chains. I tend to dodge most of his chains, like 50% of them but a lot of chains that pinhead hits me with. I don't really get punished. my impression is that he's too weak vs hold-w. when pinhead opens his gateway, he moves at 92% so often you can get hit by his chains and just hold-w to next loop even though I played poorly vs ability. At loops, it depends distance and nature of loop whether you get punished or not. I think something is really underrated for him is his ability to counter pallet camping. when your hit by his chains, the survivor is put into the "walking state" which means that you cannot fast vault pallets. you can only slow vault them but this often does not matter because the chains often break on the environment or the survivor is too far away for you to capitalize on them. his anti-loop is mix bag for whether it gives rewards or not so I dislike playing him as a result. He is one of my favourite to go against as survivor but some my least favourite to play. I don't like playing killer that have this weird feeling of "your so close but no reward" gameplay. that is plain not fun for me as killer.
Sounds like you've never gone against a good Pinhead then.
@not_requested49 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3496567#Comment_3496567
So... you're saying hoarder was OP?
It can't have even ONE good use?
Did I say it was OP? I said it took out an entire dimension of skill from a killer. How is that the same as being OP. It still has uses: it shows you when and where survivors are when they're interacting with items/chests. I've caught a lot of survivors off-guard opening basement chest while running Hoarder on a meme build. Could it use some love? Sure it could. Did it remove the skill aspect of pinning down box on Pinhead in its old state? Absolutely.
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@timetodohottakes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3497446#Comment_3497446
Ambush isn't great and her RBT aren't perfect either, I really think they could be more.
RBTs do their job right now: they provide significant slowdown. They can even guarantee a kill if she has two boxes close by that she can proxy and survivors don't get a perfect 3/3/3/3 split on number of boxes.
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@jayz666 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3497437#Comment_3497437
Dude you need to chill lol made for this is fine and the fact you can’t handle a killer main saying it’s fine is just so funny to me most killers don’t care and I don’t think made for this needs a nerf or will get one anytime soon with texas chainsaw massacre releasing if behaviour start ruining survivor more than they already have then people will just switch to that if you can’t counter made for this and this is no shade against anyone you just aren’t a good killer
I'm not even gonna dignify this with a proper response.
@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3497441#Comment_3497441
It's nowhere near as strong in practice as some are claiming it is in theory. Practice never works out the same as theory, survivors need to loop flawlessly and consistently throughout a chase to get the value out of MFT, while a Sprint Burst or a Dead Hard pays off in the second you use it. One wrong read, or one second caught on a corner of a loop, loses the chase.
3% Haste theoretically extends a chase by 20%. But for one thing, it entirely depends on the length of the chase as to whether or not that is impactful. 20% extra on a 5 second chase is 1 second, and it's highly situational as to whether or not that gives the survivors anything of value. But if that chase lasts for more than 15 seconds, then killer gets Bloodlust, which is 5% and outclasses MFT altogether. This serves as a hard cap on the value MFT can give you. You might get one extra loop out of it, which is essentially what every exhaustion perk has the potential to do when used correctly.
And that's the key point, using MFT correctly has a high skill floor, on par with being able to use a 99'd Sprint Burst mid-chase, and the survivors who can pull that off are going to out loop you anyway.
Like I said, MFT has given me no trouble at all. And on the odd times it has, I've been very clearly outplayed by the survivor, it's given them an edge, but it hasn't been the sole reason they've won.
MFT is no better than any Exhaustion perk, and survivors are allowed to get a half-decent perk every now and then. Shaking up the meta is a good thing.
2% haste would be extending a chase by around 13.3%, so you'd need to be chasing at least 8 seconds to gain any value out of it, while 1% extends a chase by a potential 6.6%, this is now requiring a chase of around 15 seconds to give the survivor one extra second, and 15 seconds is where Bloodlust kicks in. So effectively, 1% Haste is giving the survivor absolutely nothing.
Really? Because I would argue it is even stronger in practice than it is in theory. The theory only covers the perk as it exists in a vacuum. In practice, it makes up for so many misplays, as well as work in tandem with the horrendous map design to make survivors near impossible to catch on certain maps like GoJ. I have no many clips of me outright outplaying a survivor on a strong tile (like shack, vaulting right into a survivor after they lose a mindgame) and them still making the vault safely because of the speedboost from MFT. Whether we're talking theory or practice, there is one objective fact: 20% difference cut means every meter the survivor has on the killer lasts 20% longer, which means the killer goes from getting a hit with the very edge of their hitbox to the survivor very safely making a vault/pallet/tile with no recourse from the killer. On its own, MFT is "fine". When you combine it with the atrocious, oversaturated map design, it becomes excessively problematic, and again, only affecting the weakest killers in the game; the ones without a power that lets them circumvent the speedboost. It just further incentivizes players to strictly play Wesker/Blight/Nurse/Spirit.
20% on a 5s chase is indeed 1s. And 1s in chase in DBD is a MASSIVE amount of time. A fraction of a second could be the difference between a survivor making a pallet/vault safely, and we're talking about a whole second, on a FIVE SECOND CHASE. Keep in mind survivors get a lot more distance on something like a god vault/pallet break than simply 5s. Now compound that fact with the 20% chase extension. What's a weak killer's only recourse? Bloodlust, of course. And Bloodlust resets on what? Hits (which coordinated survivors will take for their teammates) and pallet breaks (which a survivor can force on a safe enough pallet, which so many maps have today unfortunately).
MFT is far easier to use than a 99 SB, and gives more value. SB gives 4.2 meters of distance to the survivor when used ((6-4.6)*3). That's 7 seconds of chase added for the killer to close the gap (4.2/0.6). MFT gives 20% extra distance on ANY meter of distance that a survivor has over a killer, this means a chase only needs to last 35s (4.2/0.12) or more while the survivor is injured for MFT to outclass SB in terms of total distance gain. This is, again, looked at in a vacuum, not taking into account that MFT lets a survivor greed a pallet so much more often (which increases time wasted), or make other pallets without a burst use like other exhaustion perks, or make safer vaults after being outplayed in a tile. No matter how you slice it, this perk is extremely busted.
1% Haste is an extra .33 seconds on that 5s example you gave earlier, which is still enough for a survivor to safely vault a window/make a pallet, and gives more value than Resilience on vaults. Unconditional Haste will always be problematic. MFT needs to get nerfed yesterday.
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This sounds very boring. Basically just a "spend all game doing boxes" simulator. And I don't even want to think about the guaranteed head pops you could get on this build if she chooses to proxy two boxes.
Pig is in a very good spot, her main problem is the same that all M1 killers deal with: overly safe maps, MFT, etc.
The most she needs is some small number tweaks for ambush.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3497413#Comment_3497413
That's worse than Resilience.
2% haste is still very strong. Even 1% haste is very strong when given unconditionally. Any free haste perk shouldn't exist.
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@MB666 said:
agreed , the only people not complaining about it are probably the people that are playing no TR killers and the top tier killer main players. trapper , píg , legion , onrio , billy , myers ,hag , bubba , plague , freddy
those low killer suffer from the same problems , either no reliable mobility powers or an actual good anti-loop which are what MFT basically is good at it , making killers without anti-loop more weaker , and killer with weaker anti-loop just a M1 killer with no power.
MY PERSONAL REWORK:
Made for This
You were born to survive, and raised to adapt.
Whenever you are in the Injured State Made for This activates and you benefit from the following effects:
- Gain a 4/5/6 % vaulting speed bonus while running.
- Gain the Endurance Status Effect for 5 /10 /15 seconds after completing a Healing action on another Survivor.
Made for This cannot be used when suffering from Exhaustion, but does not cause the Exhausted
"I didn't come here to be robot food!" — Gabriel Soma
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRE42n28FyDgUQnQWatUKJJ6AlogTbR8sKJQw&usqp=CAU
With this giving the perk a chase-oriented style, returning the beloved vault speed build at the same time buffing a bit the endurance effect when healing someone while removing the good awful 3% speed which can be problematic on many maps / killers.
PLS BHVR MAKE IT REAL 😪
That's even worse. I don't want to see vault speed build come back. It needs to be gutted yesterday: remove haste and make it so it only works from injured to healthy so there's no overlap with WGLF or Buckle Up.
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@Seraphor said:
Jesus, the melodrama over this perk.
I main Ghostface and Pig, and I don't have a problem with MFT. It's no better than Sprint Burst, and I have more trouble with Sprint Burst as a non-chase power killer.
You can make as many threads as you like, they can't acknowledge a problem that doesn't exist.
You're playing stealth killers that can crawl right up on someone and smack them before they're aware. If I'm playing Trapper, and I outplay a survivor at shack, they shouldn't still make the window safely because haha funny injured haste perk.
People are making a big deal about it because it is a big deal. A lot of safe tiles are designed to be safe for default survivor speed. When you cut the speed difference by 20%, they become exponentially safer.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3496960#Comment_3496960
a lot of pallet are pretty safe so being faster is not that great. you can zone pallet loops better by breaking the pallet and hope the survivor has poor pathing on chaining-tiles with increased speed. I guess that is the advantage of playing add-on but idk. instant tp sounds more useful in my opinion.
Scarred Hand turns your trap into a bodyblocker. You can literally deny entire loops, and even get a full down if you trap it properly. If a survivor runs into shack that's got the window+pallet blocked, that's a free down.