ScytheIX
ScytheIX
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3767859#Comment_3767859
Just as Distortion (counters like 70+ things or something), WoO limits killer builds. I can't see you? Gen regression. I can't outmindgame you since you only hold W? Gen regression, hit and run. Why run blindness, if gen regression/slowdown is better overall?
What perks would you switch to if WoO got removed tomorrow?
Because I can't think of a single killer perk that would be better off that isn't gen regression. I can think of a large number of perks that would be marginally less effective if the survivor isn't bee-lining for resources all the time, but the only perks I can think of that would be better off without WoO are, ironically, gen regression perks.
So this argument kinda feels like the classic forum killer gambit of 'Do what we say or else we do more of the thing you dislike'.
No one says that changing or removing WoO would be the only thing that needs to happen (mind you, I didn't ask for removal and I'm tired of people interpreting stuff into what is said, that isn't there).
A lot of things would need change for regression to get "dethroned", but that's not the the point here. The point is the absolute brainafk playstyles.@Volcz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3767928#Comment_3767928
- I asked you a hypothetical that you didn't answer b/c we both know your answer. WoO is not a problem, you saying it is a problem doesn't make it one. Weave + Franklins is a problem as it completely negates items while also giving you tons of information on a near constant basis during the match. Your rationality for a nerf to WoO is pretty bad. You're just using the 'if they nerf killer perks, they should nerf survivor perks too' mentality and thats just dumb. If its a problem on either side, it should be looked at. That simple. And actually I can. B/c those items give us power, give us boost to repairs, healing, saves, etc. You'd be absolutely livid if your add-ons were able to be disabled or taken away for periods of time. But of course that isn't the same to you b/c it doesn't fit your narrative you're trying to spin.
- Learning resistance? So you think its healthy for a game to have perks in it, where as soon as a match begins, the go-to move is run to a corner and drop whatever item you have in your hands, out of fear that the perks are in play. Yea that seems very very healthy and not at all irritating for the survivors to deal with. And that isn't a reality, especially in solo que. But you clearly don't play solo que if you're actually bringing this idea up.
- 'No one I know relies on aura'. Well then you just don't know very many killer mains, cause A LOT of people rely on aura to constantly give them info and get into chases back-to-back to keep up the pressure. Please explain how WoO counters your builds. It leads us to a pallet or lets us know no pallet is in the area. So explain how that perk stops you from using 200+ perks on killer side. People are using the 'gool ol reliable' just as they've ALWAYS done b/c those are the strongest perks and they synergize with each other. I think people are entirely open to changes, as long as they are coming from a game health perspective and not a 'you hurt one side, you better hurt the other', which is what this is.
- Well, just cause you don't see them doesn't mean they don't show up here. Been plenty of times where people come to the forums to ask pretty basic questions. You can easily do a forum search. Kate isn't a 'must have', its just the character people recommend b/c of WoO. You can still start out just fine on someone like Meg (which is who a lot of people also recommend if you aren't immediately buying a character).
- I literally explained the reasoning in that point but here it is again, since its hard to read apparently. You are defending Weave + Franklins which completely negates items while giving you tons of info throughout the entire match and comparing it to a perk that shows survivors where a pallet is. If you think they are anywhere on the same level in terms of strength, you're livin in a fantasy world. I love how you say I put words in your mouth but then you turn around and immediately do the same thing you said I did to you. I never said 'you guys' or that 'I'm better than you'. Get that reading comprehension up. Getting a lil ahead of yourself. I didn't say I was better at the game, I just said your reasoning is bad. Which it is. That isn't ego.
- "we" as in the community does not need it. Its not a problem. You wanting it nerfed is for disingenuous reasons, not valid ones. Just like how people wanted a nerf to Iron Will but then it became completely useless, or the infamous Distortion by people claiming it was for game health reasons when in reality it just pissed the player off that they couldn't find the Distortion user consistently.
- You're asking me to list these sources like I keep them on file to just pull up anytime in discussions, lol. Go watch some killer mains and tell me they struggle. Hexy was on a 95%+ winstreak as Wraith for over 3 months, to the point people started trolling him if he managed to lose a match. Tru3tal3nt, another recognizable killer main, took RANDOM 'builds' from chatters and tried to go on winstreaks w/ certain killers. I didn't watch the whole thing but he hit 33 wins on Cenobite before he lost. Go watch literally any killer main play for a little bit. I don't need to provide vods and clips when its literally in their gameplay and you can do your own research too. I don't need to provide everything for you and those 2 examples I mentioned speak volumes anyways. If WoO was such a problem for these actual good killer mains, they'd bring it up a lot more. Its not b/c its not a problem and you are just trying to make it seem like one.
You are coming from a disingenuous and biased perspective, you're not in it for game health or to mix things up. Just like the people who wanted Iron Will & Distortion nerfed into the ground. Can see pretty easily through the BS, my man.
I won't talk to someone that calls someone that plays both sides equally 'biased' and keeps egochecking them, twisting words or only reading half of what has been said, because that's just a waste of my time.
(You haven't clarified either what you actually are, but you seem to talk a lot like a survivor main that exclusively plays that role though.)
You asked for clarification on multiple occasions while I already clarified and I am not willing to repeat myself over and over again like a broken record.
You don't keep me in an argument that way.@Kaitsja said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3767971#Comment_3767971
What on earth makes you think you need to run a full build to counter WoO? I listed off counters to the perk. You pick one and roll with it.
You'd be surprised at how long a Hex like Third Seal can remain active. If the hex perk in question provides a minor inconvenience at best, Survivors are unlikely to waste their time looking for it.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3767982#Comment_3767982
I'm not undermining the strength of the perk. WoO is an information type perk. It cannot compete, in terms of strength, with regression perks. They are fundamentally different.
Yes, Third Seal can be cleansed. What's your point here?
If you're looking for a permanent non-counterable solution to WoO, then you aren't going to find it. You don't need to run 4 perks to keep the blindness readily up. The goal is not to permanently keep the perk out of play.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3767980#Comment_3767980
The most notable killer perks to be nerfed for high usage rates have been regression perks. When WoO is passively repairing generators, then we can say they're equivalent in strength. Ruin was just an example, and is objectively stronger by virtue of being a regression perk.
Railroad players into using specific perks
It's a little thing called Counterplay.
I know this is really hard for all you Windows complainers to understand, but the problem is not WoO. It's map design. Nerfing the perk won't fix bad map design. Pre-nerf Pain Res DMS couldn't be countered by Calm Spirit. You wouldn't scream, but you'd still let go of the gen.
Counterplay =/= reliable counterplay. (Since I like to talk about Weave + Frankies a lot I guess one could say the counterplay to that is bringing OoO and or carrying the item to the edge of the map.
But yeah, keep telling people to fight a forest fire with a spraybottle.
Y'all are so focused on keeping your precious perks the way they are, actively denying change or meta shakeups.
Keep doing it. It's your right. But next time come with actual arguments that make sense instead of instantly calling 'bias' while the only ones biased are you yourselves. -
@Kaitsja said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3767969#Comment_3767969
The inherent weakness of hex perks being cleansable off spawn doesn't make them weaker than a perk that, despite having 100% uptime, only shows you the locations of pallets and vaults. You also only need to use one perk or add-on to counter WoO.
Not all perks are created equal.
No perks are created equal yet you undermine the strength of a perk with 100% uptime.
You just said one should just run Third Seal which is counterable by cleansing it (once again). So are the other perks you named that don't need running if there is better options out there.
Other perks (Mindbreaker for example) are highly situational. You hear a TR approaching. Get off gen, walk off blindness and exhaustion.
Bullhorn? Only when cleansing, so only really useful in a full build around stealth gameplay or paired with Iri Vial (aka 2 addons, not just one).
Septic Touch? Only in the TR.
Ultimate Weapon? Only in a certain range around the locker.
So to cover all bases I would have to run up to 4 perks to keep the blindness up reliably.
If a perk you claim to not be as strong as people make it out to be needs 4 perks to RELIABLY (once again, I say words like this for a reason) counter that one perk that has a reliable uptime, the math clearly isn't mathing (as previously stated). -
@Kaitsja said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3767846#Comment_3767846
Killer perks get nerfed for high usage rates/being too strong, as do survivor perks. It depends on the perk's function. Ruin, for example, passively regressing generators that aren't actively being worked on is far stronger than WoO, which shows you pallets and vaults.
If WoO is so problematic, why don't killers run Hex: The Third Seal? Several killers have blindness add-ons, so you could even get away with not having to sacrifice a perk slot. Could even run Hex: Blood Favor.
Why would a cleansable (off spawn) perk be better than a perk that has 100% uptime unless a person uses up to 4 perks and 2 addons to counter it? The math ain't mathing.
This is a rhetorical question that doesn't need to be answered. -
@Volcz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3767859#Comment_3767859
So I'm going to address your entire post in points.
- So you say Weave + Franklins is not a problem. But I ask you this; if survivors were able to dismiss/disable your killer add-ons + get aura to see where you are, would you not have a problem with it?
- Most people don't just go around a corner and drop the item, b/c (you know this) they don't know its in play yet. Once its in play and realized by the survivors, its too late. That isn't healthy gameplay b/c if we knew what perks a killer was running like Franklins + Weave, we wouldn't even bother running an item in the first place.
- Distortion counters aura. If you rely on aura and you come across someone or multiple people running Distortion, why shouldn't they punish you? Also please explain how WoO limits your build.
- I can't speak for all new players but I've seen many times, people come into these forums asking about what specific character to get since they are new to the game. The general consensus is Kate is 1 of the best to unlock b/c of WoO. And she isn't exactly locked behind anything special, besides currency.
- My reasoning is a lot better than yours. You are actually trying to defend Weave + Franklins which completely negates items while giving killers a huge advantage b/c people want to use the items they bring in. WoO is used for a variety of reasons, by newcomers and veterans alike.
- We don't want a cooldown b/c its not needed. That simple. You guys tried the same thing with Distortion, pretending it was for 'game health reasons', talking about how the 1 person on the team w/ Distortion would get the other teammates tunneled/given more pressure (when in reality, it probably caused killers to lose games b/c they couldnt rely on aura).
- Many content creators as well as experienced killers disagree with you. A lot of killer mains have extreme egos and will never admit fault in their gameplay. The actual good killers, don't really care about WoO. Its a useful perk for survivors but it does not = a won game.
Oh boy,…
1.
No. You put words in my mouth (hands, whatever) that I did not say. I said "if you don't want the aura perk nerfed that shows survivors the resource, so should no perk be nerfed that does the same for killer. I never said "it isn't a problem". It pretty much is. Just like WoO. Please stop interpreting and actually read or otherwise this discussion is not a discussion but a 'talking past each other'.
You can not compare a disposable item with a killer power. You are grasping for straws to counter a statement.
2.
That's learning resistance on the survivor's part. Why not drop your item at the beginning of the trial to check? I do, why can't others? Running from yellow to yellow isn't healthy either, and ppl still defend it.
3.
No one I know relies on aura. The game is playable without it. It's a question of build variety. If one perk is able to counter a whole build, then that's fine?
I already explained why WoO limits builds. Because the counter to it (perks and addons on killer side, p.e. blindness) aren't good enough to warrant running them, so the best thing you fall back to is good ol' reliable. People don't like the meta as it is stale, yet they are reluctant to accept changes to offer more build variety in return.
4.
No one can speak for a new player unless they are a new player. But I never see new players in the forums talking about it or participating in these type of discussions (granted I rather spend my time elsewhere, so I also don't really look for them). (Personally, not generally:) As a new player I didn't know Kate was a must have. So if I have to google for the knowledge or if I have to have friends telling me, then that's general consensus between people with a bit of playtime to know their way around builds, not between new players that just downloaded the game to play.
I won't discuss the definition of "new" because I will have a different point of view on that one as well.
5.
There is no reasoning. You just straight up said "I'm better than you". That's not reasoning, that's ego.
"You guys." - Yeah, us guys who? The guys that are "worse" than you? Since you are "better"? The guys that need to "learn how to play"? (Which is quite ironic, bc people that rely on WoO don't really know how to play without it. But I digress…) That's not an argument, nor is it reason.
6.
"We" who? Every survivor main in existence? I could be classified as a survivor main, too. Please don't say "we" when there is no definitive definition of "we". I want WoO nerfed and I have my fair share of survivor hours. Especially would I like it nerfed because WoO players eat up resources that don't need to be used up, that I could later on use in chase.
Distortion incentivises (my german brain can't tell if this is the right spelling, whoopsie…) Hide and Seek playstyles. Not on every person, mind you. Neither does every WoO user just hold w from yellow to yellow. From my experience most of them do though. No matter what side I'm playing, or if they have 10k hours or 2k.
7.
Please link me the sources to that statement and also the sources of other content creators and streamers saying exactly the opposite. You can't just cherry-pick everything that agrees with you and then not do the necessary work to find the others that disagree.
You are making it sound as if I'm a) a killer main and b) i got an ego. Neither is true. You just ego-checked me in your 5th point though. Just food for thought. -
@Volcz said:
No, a nerf is not needed.
This perk helps a ton of people, not just veterans but mostly newcomers to the game.
Its already overwhelming as it is, coming into the game with 200+ perks on each side, bloodweb grind, what killers are good, bad, how to play against each specific killer, etc.
This thread feels exactly like a 'Nerf Distortion' thread, lol.
I don't like whataboutism, but if WoO doesn't need a nerf, then Weave + Franklin's doesn't either.
See it like this:
The survivor sees the resources in an area.
As a killer, my resource is the survivor for I need hooks and gens for I need to defend them (the latter I see constantly). I can (if I'd run the combo mentioned) see the survivor constantly.
The easy way to counter 2 perks on killer is to take item, run corner, drop item.
I would need blindness addons/perks to do the same.
Just as Distortion (counters like 70+ things or something), WoO limits killer builds. I can't see you? Gen regression. I can't outmindgame you since you only hold W? Gen regression, hit and run. Why run blindness, if gen regression/slowdown is better overall?
Granted I don't play that way, because I don't play to win, since I play both sides and I know how frustrating getting tunneled might be for certain individuals that don't want to learn chase.
Kate may be a non licensed character, but you can not tell me a new player instantly knows about the perk and uses it unless they get told to get Kate, level her up and use her perk.
If survivors keep yapping about killer perks, the killers are allowed to voice their opinion on survivor perks that are overused, too.
Your reasoning isn't good enough to accept a "No, a nerf is not needed."
What is the reason people wouldn't accept a cooldown after a rushed action for example? You can preplan your route, memorize, execute. Instead of just "me see yellow me press space" (yoinked that from JRM).
Besides learnresistance there is no other reason.
If I have to learn to anticipate people hiding behind a rock edgemap or others living in lockers, survivors can easily learn looping too, no? -
"I rarely play killer, but I could easily 4k, so should everyone else."
MMR exists, even though it is fairly wonky. I could probably 4k5 without perks in your lobbies, too, if I would play in someone's MMR range, that rarely plays killer, while trying.
That doesn't change the fact that my survivors actually have more than one braincell combined, unlike yours.
Just because your experience is "easy w" doesn't mean everyone else has the same experience. You raise your MMR first. You'll notice you made it the moment you lose big time.
I wanna see you play against actual good players and then come back and tell us all about how they walked all over you while 5 gens got done in roughly 5 minutes.
Meta exists for a reason. And the killer meta exists because the gens go too fast. One might argue base genspeed needs to be looked at. -
@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3721182#Comment_3721182
But just because they drop the pallet does not mean you cannot still get the hit… so I still don't really get your point here. It is not like all maps are "The Game" with 28 god pallets that you need to kick… So even if they reach the tile you can just mind game them at the tile or use your power and get the hit… So what does it matter that they are already intending to go to the next tile?
But I would not say it is a double standard…Pick rates alone are not a viable stat to have to look at something, just like for example killer pick rates of the 5 base killers being higher than expected based on whatever criteria is not necessarily a reason to be looked at.
If you don't get my point I don't see the reason in discussing further. Let's agree to disagree and leave it at that.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3721095#Comment_3721095
Could be, I don't remember how it used to be back then.
Why does it make the game dull? Isn't the chase interaction at tiles the reason why we play the game? I mean sure many things in this game inflate skill and make people last longer in chase despite them having no reason to do so base on their skill. I mean sure, it is kind of stupid that people don't put thought into, but I don't think the perk needs to change, because its main effects are still healthy, and that some bad players appear better than they are because of it is not reason enough to diminish the good effects it has. If they are really as bad as you think they are you will get the hit regardless, whether there is a tile or not.
There is no chase interaction at tiles if people hold W from yellow to yellow.
Drop pallet, vault window, next tile rinse and repeat.
That's what the majority of players use it for.
I don't mind good players using it to elevate chases.
And here we are back at the question of what is healthy for the game.
People complained about Pain Res and Pop not being healthy. I agree. Gen regression is frustrating on both sides.
The usage rate was high as can be.
But you (as in a person, not you in particular) can't have these kind of double standards imho.
If PR has a 30% usage rate and gets nerfed and WoO has 35%+ there is obviously something that perk does extremely well and that needs to be looked at.
And it is not about getting the hit. It's about how the game feels. I don't really enjoy feeling like I play against bots 9/10 matches.
But thats an mmr issue so yeah. Things go hand in hand. -
@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3721042#Comment_3721042
The question is under what condition does it deactivate? As soon as I enter chase? After a specific amount of time? Sure you know what is like 30 m around you, but that does not help you when you are currently in a dead zone working on a Gen or only have tiles around you that are low height and you need to pre run...
The problem with jungle gyms is that depending on whether or not the pallet is still up you need to walk into the gym in a different way... So it gets majorly effected by being able to rely on a Ressource still being there.
The only thing the perk tells is you where the resources you can use are, not how to use them... You don't turn your brain of and suddenly know how to loop a killer... You can only pre plan if you know what is around you and when that information is still fresh, because otherwise it might have change already.
Why is it a big issue if the survivor reaches a resource? Do you just want a free down because the survivor ended up in a dead zone? A survivor that only runs to a tile and then has no clue how to use it is still an easy hit, so where exactly is the issue.
Back in the day it deactivated after a rushed action if I remember correctly.
Also no. You are reading things into it. It is not a big issue a survivor reaches a resource. It is an issue that people inflate their skill by running from yellow to yellow without thinking about it.
It makes it incredibly dull to play with and against. -
@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3721019#Comment_3721019
That would negate the secondary purpose of knowing which tiles your teammates already used...
Not necessarily. If you are close to a tile and scout it out and memorize what has been used I don't think that's a big deal. (WoO aura range is huge.) Maybe for fillers, but gyms in general can be used even without a pallet. Not to the full effect, mind you, but it's not unusable.
It would actually force you to preplan and then execute instead of only execute and not think about it.
And the latter is probably what people get frustrated with the most.
No one says it shouldn't be a useful tool. It just shouldn't be a "turn brain off and hold W to what glows". (The majority of WoO players sadly play like that.)
Imagine I had full aura read on the surv I'm chasing constantly. Just imagine it. It's not a real argument or comparison. But that's the equivalent of how it feels most of the times. Or the closest one could get. -
@DetectiveDuckMain said:
Honestly… I believe they shouldn't change it. it's a good, balanced perk for new survivors and that's it. Why are people getting mad over new survivors in solo q learning how to actually play the game?
It would be balanced for new survivors if it had it's CD back, too. What the CD would do is actually make people learn instead of see, drop, forget.
Also most of the people using it sit around 3-7k hours. In my lobbies at least.
I wouldn't call that a new survivor/player.
So I wouldn't say people get mad over new survivors trying to learn. They do exist. But they are far and in between.
(Also take regions into account. EU is vastly different from NA for example. So our experience might not be the experience of someone across the globe. That doesn't make it less valid though.) -
WoO usage rate (at least on NightLight) is through the roof. (As in higher usage rate than Pain Res.) You rarely see a lobby that has less than 2 WoO.
Didn't BHVR say themselves Pain Res usage rate is too high? (Wonder why that is, hurrdurr.) And that's why they nerf it?
Talking about double standards.
With that out of the way:
It's too strong. Even a subpar survivor is able to extend chases just by running from yellow to yellow. Enough time wasted to have efficient survivors finish gens before any "looping" actually occurred.
Any other chases get cut shorter bc the resources are already out of the way. That's detrimental if the team is not efficient. (And let's be real, let's be honest, let's be real honest here: most survivors aren't.)
No one asks for them to delete the perk. It needs the CD back. Good players will still be able to learn layouts that way but it is no free 50% skill increase for the rest of them. -
@dbdthegame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3501010#Comment_3501010
"You are the equivalent to the Karen at the BBQ that blames the person that had too much to drink for saying a "Nono" word, while the guy actually affected shrugs it off."
"You make a scene because you want to. Because you think thats "justice". Are you vigilante by trade?"
"Your logic isn't there. You are emotional and manipulative. You are toxic."
All of the above are direct, personal attacks, mixed in with some fallacious assumptions on my motives.
If you take this as a personal attack, that's on you. (People usually don't like to be called out, I get it, the but damn fam..... you gotta learn to comprehend.) I'm responsible for what I say, not for what you interpret it as. Still not an attack. It's a comparison to how one can perceive you, it's a question if you work in law enforcement and it's a fact that you already confirmed in your posts. You do the same thing by calling everyone else "toxic" and "entitled" just because they hookicide. Is that a personal attack? (By your logic it should be.)
You don't have to parrot back to me what I write. I am well aware.
If you attack a group of people though, that seems to be perfectly fine/ the norm. After all, we are all entitled whenever we hookicide. ;)
-
I'm stating facts. It's not a personal vendetta. I did not insult you even once. If you read it that way, that's a you problem, because you want to be attacked (verbally), probably you want to play the victim card even harder. I do not have a filter and I am not a native speaker.
But why would I decorate words with roses and butterflies when you don't do the same for others?
"My ultimate goal is for people to stop doing it."
You don't care it upsets others, yet you stated previously it upsets you. Which makes you emotional.
"I know their team wants them bled out because they surround me after I down them and nod at me while teabagging the slug."
Well, reportable btw. It's called: Working with the Killer. You as a Killer are reportable for that, too. Told you you are not following the rules either.
All I see you do is police people because YOU feel like it. And that's the problem. And I will speak up until people figure out that they are in the wrong. But instead of actually trying to give solutions, you throw around "fair, goal, upset and ME".
-
See this as a double post because holy #########, the Forums are bugged beyond believe.
-
@dbdthegame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3499654#Comment_3499654
I don't want people to play the way I want them to play, I want them to play within the RULES without looking for loopholes to avoid them. DCing is considered unsportsmanlike conduct. By any standard, hookicides would be considered so under the same umbrella, if they weren't so hard to differentiate from a legit attempt to escape.
5 minutes isn't high enough for a DC penalty to act as a proper deterrent imo actually, I would be okay with them bumping it to 10.
You just stated that you will force your way onto them if they try to get out of the game any other way by slugging them for 4 minutes. You force your own "right" onto the people you think are in the wrong. You aren't any better than people any%-ing on hook. Stop pretending that you are.
Lemme quote you real quickly:
"I actually DO get quite upset when people try to suicide against me as a killer."
&
"if and when they get unhooked by a farming teammate, you can bet I WILL find them, and I WILL down them, and I WILL slug them while BMing over their slug"
So you rather make them bleed out, because you are upset? Funny, that being slugged for 4 minutes + BP you've earned is still better than DCing and eating a 5 minute penalty, innit? Still not the way to go about it, as you just fight perceived toxicity with toxicity. Way to go champ. Way to go.
Hookicides aren't a loophole. If the Devs didn't want them in the game, they'd done away with them already. But alas, since they are in the game, we've got people like you getting upset, because someone else doesn't play the game the way you want them to play.
Upping the DC penalty won't change that. It would just make more people do the "loophole thing" instead of giving the team a bot.
I would say "stop being a special snowflake" but I don't think that whatever someone else tells you, will make you see that you are actually in the wrong here. (Not saying I don't get your point of view, just not agreeing with you crusading against people playing a game.)
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@dbdthegame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3499621#Comment_3499621
Holy analogies, Batman. Okay, let's break down this post.
If someone doesn't want to play a game, they have the option to DC. They eat a penalty, and their team is given a bot. Everyone loses, but the DCer gets what they wanted. If the person isn't willing to eat the penalty, they can play the game through. Hookicide is a loophole that lets them circumvent the DC penalty while achieving what they want, but in the letter of the rules, it is unsportsmanlike conduct. And you call ME entitled for telling someone they shouldn't look for loopholes and eat the DC penalty?
Tunneling off hook can throw an entire game for a killer, assuming the tunneled person knows what they're doing. It is a valid strategy that gives every other survivor on the map ample time to crank out gens unbothered, until the tunnel-out goes down again. It's not a circumvention of any mechanic set in place to let the killer achieve an earlier kill, it is playing entirely within the rules, and is an efficient strategy for the killer (just the same way splitting on gens across the map is an efficient strategy for the killer). A killer tunneling is LITERALLY doing their job as a killer (to kill), a survivor killing themslves on hook is doing the opposite of what they should be doing (to survive). But remember, I'm the entitled one, not the person playing whataboutism and making some of the most unholy analogies I've ever read.
I actually DO get quite upset when people try to suicide against me as a killer. Not because they don't think I'm "fun to play against" (I really couldn't care less if people find me fun or not to play against), but because I also occasionally play survivor, and I occasionally play solo Q, and I absolutely despise when someone offs themselves on hook because we basically get no chance at all. In fact, when I do spot someone who's trying to suicide on hook; if and when they get unhooked by a farming teammate, you can bet I WILL find them, and I WILL down them, and I WILL slug them while BMing over their slug, and I WILL let their teammates get a 3-out, and I WILL let them bleed out as they watch it unfold in front of them. There is nothing that aggravates me more than a person that thinks their time is so much more important than the other 4 people playing the game with them that they'll circumvent a mechanic set in place (that leaves their team much worse off) just to avoid a 1 minute MM ban. But remember, I'm the entitled one.
Any more fallacies you wanna get off your chest? It was quite fun piecing your post apart.
Just take note that what you do is peak entitlement too. You want people to play the way you want them to play. And if they don't they are entitled.
Also there is no 1 minute lockout anymore. It starts with 5. 5 minutes in which one could play another game already.
Uno reverse aye?
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@dbdthegame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3499510#Comment_3499510
All I'm hearing is entitlement. You are playing a game fully aware that those killers exist in it. If you're not willing to play the game, there's a penalty for giving up early.
There is indeed an issue with the community, and it is entitlement. Went down too fast in first chase? DC. Killer is good? DC. Killer is using xyz perk? DC. If I run the killer for 3 minutes and no gen gets done, I really don't care. I don't expect much from solo Q, and I had fun running the killer. That said, if someone hookicides, we really have no chance left.
Forum just ate my reply so here goes again:
No, it's (being) entitled to tell people how to play the game. It's entitled to think you are in the right, while every other person is wrong. (I'm not saying I'm in the right. I'm just stating a fact. - Might be worded poorly as I'm not a native speaker, so the idea behind those words might be lost in translation.) It's entitled to tell people that their disability doesn't mean jackshit.
You sound like a dictator, if you haven't noticed yet.
I can't play the game if I'm in my bathroom emptying my stomach, can I now? You read this as if we would hookicide every game when in reality it's maybe 0.5% of the games played.
Sucks if the Uno Reverse Card hits, doesn't it?
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The moment you notice more and more people any%-ing out of a game, it should tell you that something is fundamentally wrong with it. DC bots are a bandaid on a bullet hole.
But that doesn't give anyone the right to dictate what other people are and aren't allowed to do (if it's not against ToS).
I will hookicide if I play against a Clown because I get sick in his bottles. I will do the same against a Dull Merchant. I will also do it if my team doesn't even attempt to save me, after I ran the killer for 4 gens. The same goes the other way around. If I play killer, everyone may get themselves out of the game however they please. It is not MY right to tell them to stay.
People hookiciding want to play the game, but the fundamental flaws make it impossible or unenjoyable for them. Asking them to eat a DC penalty is the worst take I've seen so far.
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3499051#Comment_3499051
Holy ######### worst take.
Genuine disability? Doesn't matter, YOU MUST PLAY REEEEEE
Reminds me of the flashlight clicking debate. "If you can't handle randomly strobing lights and flashlight macros that are completely preventable, you're fault, don't play DBD."
Also thanks for being a smart one Pulsar. Probably the most sane person here. Have a cookie and a glass of milk.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3493505#Comment_3493505
you can rid of tv's by turning them off. your teammate should turn it off before unhooking you. proxy camping is legit strategy.
Again, please enlighten me:
How do you turn off a TV that is constantly turned off?
You all just say "turn it off", but seem to ignore the fact that it's literally impossible in certain scenarios. I know proxycamping is a legit strategy, I'm stating that no other killer can do what she is able to do: Disabling her TV herself, on cooldown, next to a hook.
It might be niche but I don't think it should work that way. (Migraine makes forming sentences impossible rn.)
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3493457#Comment_3493457
that is strategy. some people use killer to teleport back to the hook such as demogorgon territorial imperative+make your choice or Hag Mint rag.
It's a strategy, yes. But if the TV get's turned off constantly whenever it respawns, there is 0 counterplay to it. That's what I'm getting at.
You can get rid of Demo's portals. You can disable Hag's traps. If Sadako tps on cooldown, you can't pull out the tape.
It's like playing favorites. And I'm not a fan of that. If you want to defend it, fine by me. I still see it as the wrong way to go about.
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@Crowman said:
You can take the tape and prevent her ability from teleporting to that tv for a little over a minute.
How do you take the tape when you are on the hook, and she keeps teleporting to it on cooldown?
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General:
"It has been so long since I've genuinely seen someone so thought provoking and forward on their words."- I don't have a filter. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
"I was frustrated at the fact I did indeed get my ass handed to me by a squad of Ada's that for absolutely no reason kept trying to eat my totem while I stared them dead in the eye."- I mean yeah, that's how it read at least.
"I read through most of your arguments and did my best to make them as annoying as wall-talking as possible so by you posting this I have effectively achieved my goal."- So your goal was what exactly? Have a discussion? But you didn't give the other side something to work with? Yikes, not cool man. (/s because last time it was taken seriously.......)
"In a full sense -- I was trolling."- But anyways, I was direct, you were trolling, we both were tired. Whatever.
Playtime and Skill:
"Hours do account for a lot of what a player sees in their game-stages. Experience, in my opinion DOES account for how skill is found as a basis."- True. But it is only one factor of many. Just by reading through my thought process you won't guess my playtime or overall skill. That counts the other way around too. (That's generalized.)
"and mastering already known "techs" such as shack looping and such"- I have never heard someone call 'looping' a 'tech'.
"And I partially disagree as I do believe that it is possible for three survivors to completely nutshot a killer and leave them hurting for the next two matches. trust me I''ve seen it happen."- You've seen it happen, I made it happen. It's not the norm though and instances where it works out are far and in between and can't be taken into account. (Also just had a match in which a P88 TTV thought it was a good idea to tbag the killer off spawn, instantly get hooked, then run him into the team, then get sandbagged (by me, whoops, my b, happened to be exactly there too), then DC'd. At 5 gens. Needless to say we were 2 people at 5 gens and I yeeted myself on hook at 2 gens remaining, because I effed up while looping. But as mentioned: It's not the norm.)
Lobbyshopping and Lobbyissues:
"Sure, It would help players who are new by catering to them -- and would indeed completely shift the balance by making the older and more experienced players to adapt to a large change that has been the same since they've started playing. This would effectively further create an imbalance in fact by making it so that a killer can completely change up their well-- killer"- Your whole starting argument was to "lock the survivors on the characters they queued up with just like killer". And we already established that this is not a good change that would help the struggling killer because they can just lobbyshop easier then. (I'm not taking your statement out of context, I'm just narrowing it down, so that I don't have to quote everything.)
- You can not ask for a killer player to be able to swap to their comfort pick. Killers have their individual MMR. You would be able to keep getting low level lobbies constantly if this were an actual thing.
"Yeah. That's pretty much the entire point I was pointing at. Lobbyshopping is kind of a thing that bugs me. So, usually I actually wanted to make the whole "P70 claud with clicky clicky" my argument. Lobbyshopping shouldn't even be a thing to be fair, so honestly I agree with you a lot on hiding the badges."- But your main point of "locking survs on the char they play with" promotes this behavior. And that's why I said 'this is a bad idea/change'. U get me now huh?
"Yep. That really wasn't the point of my funny thing though. I was trying to push for a "unlock killer's lock" Thingy, but I suppose it did turn out to be more of a "Make both sides suffer the restriction" kind of ordeal. And I feel like good players are hard to come by on their own."- As mentioned: You can't lift the killer restriction because each killer has their own MMR. Let's say you queue as Trapper, the guy you never touch. And you see locked survivors with certain cosmetics that you associate with sweats, or certain items...... and you swap to your comfort killer (for me that's Blight, so I take him as an example) and you rush off spawn with lethal, down everyone before the first gen pops, you 8 hook them, maybe 2 people yeet themselves on hook because they get scared when a weirdo with a cane runs towards them at mach 10, and in the endgame chat you get asked why they play against you, who is clearly on a different skilllevel. What do you tell them? "Oh I swapped off of Trapper because I'm a Blight main and you looked like you were going to try!?" Do you think they consider this as fair? Them on lowest MMR suddenly queueing against someone above the MMR cap?
Bugs and all the good stuff:
"Technically, there are some bugs that exist that give both sides an advantage if abused properly" AND "And then there's the very crappy anti-cheat"- You gave no clear example. If you don't have a reliable source to prove this, then it isn't an argument but a made up thing.
- A bug is a bug. A cheat is a cheat. The maths on bug = cheat doesn't add up. That's how it reads at least. Trust me. I trained in this field. I know bugs. And I know that whenever you fix one, 10 new pop up in the code somewhere. (Should've learned something less frustrating...........)
"Technically, there are some bugs that exist that give both sides an advantage if abused properly such as some maps not having collisions on their objects."- You leave my hugtech alone. òÓ
- Also lemme just cry for a sec, because I slip off of every goddamn tree and rock on swamp for example or backbump into literally everything on red forest....... (That's not necessarily a bug but an issue with the netcode......... or the nonexistent collision....... so yeah......)
"But overall, my point there is basically bugs exist after updates such as the hindered achievement for singularity which occured on wesker."- That's an issue with the API. Not with the game. Did you know that, for example on Steam, you can use software to unlock achievements? That doesn't mean the game is bugged. Someone just set the wrong values in the API.
Competitive and Skill:
"DBD does merit those who perform better, which it should, but if you get more badges you rank up more." AND "You get more score in a match then you get more Bloodpoints which kind of does reflect a competitive mindset, but not in the same way as what a true "Comp gamemode" would look like."- That's exactly what it doesn't do:
- Example: I loop the killer for the whole match, therefore help the team win and then die for whatever reason: I lose MMR. But I contributed the most as I kept the killer occupied for the whole match. The whole system is flawed.
- The MMR is capped. So there is no real matchmaking after a certain threshold.
- Bloodpoints are just points to rank up your prestige. And prestige doesn't equal skill. Therefore it's not a competitive game.
About the Killrates:
"Doing so -- It wasn't official I believe. It was just a post. Here, I'll quote it and link the exact post. from the DBD Subred"- Yeah that's not the official stat sheet they released, but it's the general gist of it.
Balance and Perks:
"I really do enjoy that concept. But DBD has recently began to lose it's flavor for the "Survival Horror" and feels more like each side using Diversion to hit eachother in the head over petty balancing issues such as.. MFT. sigh"AND Also -- made for this... shudders.. People getting angry over a injury-haste perk is silly to me for some reason. All it is? Is basically resilience but for non-conspicuous actions (walking, running, breathing, lollygagging) and essentially just make survivors have a movement increase by like what. 3%?- It's the hamsterwheel. "Oh no, one side gets a new shiny thing that is not completely useless in the right hands. WE NEED IT NERFED."
- BHVR has no idea how to balance certain perks. They keep killing them instead of nerfing their synergy with other perks/scenarios. (See COB/Eruption/Overcharge and DH as an example.) So basically they take all the fun out of the game and make everyone run the same ######### because it's the only decent thing left. MFT is not a problem. People are just butthurt. Every test people have done where they pretended to have MFT showed perfectly well that a specific side (in this case the killer side) is a hivemind. One says it's op and they can clearly see it, then everyone else repeats the same thing, even if it isn't even used (aka most people don't know the difference when chasing someone). MFT is a perk. Bloodlust is a mechanic that stacks up to 3 times. And it stays if the killer misses a swing. I see that as a bigger problem than MFT tbf.
General:
"(P.S, you missed the Y so I had to bold it because it was annoying to look at on the realization.)"- I think I wrote that at around 4 a.m. while melting in my 28.2 °C/ 80.6 °F hot bedroom -cough-. Have mercy.
On Discussions and Feedback:
"That's actually why we need people who can come together and look into the melding pot that is the community discussions and attempt to come to a final conclusion that works more effectively in one larger idea than smaller, multiple almost insignificant changes."- Sadly that's the minority. The vocal ones that yell the loudest usually get their way. That's why DH got nerfed like...... 3 times or so.
"But you could draw from your own experience from a situation like that -- as that stuff can be applied to other players and their situation."- I can't. I don't let myself get bullied. At least noone managed to yet.
"Ahhh... I love being pessimistic and seeing my inability to get past silver as a permanent skill issue but that's besides the point. I really just wanted to find something in order to provoke a genuine train of thought in other members of the community. If I tried to say, push for a normal discussion and say "Hey, I think the game's balance is kind of sucky" I would get answers like "Yeah lol it's dbd." or "Get good" or something along those lines."- I mean...... yeah sure. But that's just how it is. You don't really win the 'likable award' by throwing out random ideas that might be read by devs and they actually consider it. Imagine they'd just been like: Yup, we change that exactly as you first wanted it.
- And then you have someone like me, that has no filter........ and suddenly you might feel attacked without proper reason.
"Being able to actually have something stop, then FIX the base platform for the content would mean that you wouldn't have to worry about it teetering on one side too much and falling with the release of a new chapter If we were to look at this situation like a game of jenga"- Let's be real, let's be honest, let's be real honest here. BHVR is lacking the knowledge and manpower to do that. Or else they wouldn't put out PTBs like this and use us as glorified playtesters. (Damn I sure liked getting motion sick with the M1 animation changes they put there for no reason....... thankfully they backpedaled on that one......)
"I can see where you're coming from. My whole point to what I say is in order to try to push you, so that way you push me harder and give me a feel for how you think or feel."- Please get out of my head, thank you. It's already integer overflowing.
- 01010011 01100101 01101110 01100100 00100000 01101000 01100101 01101100 01110000 00001101 00001010
- 066 114 097 105 110 032 102 117 108 108 013 010
- Yes i felt that this was necessary.
"SPIRIT RING OP!!"- But it kinda is tho.......
"obama grilled cheese sandwhich..."- So you are telling me a chicken fried this rice?
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"the demand for detailed information about my playtime, MMR, and encounters with "bully squads" -- While these details can provide context, it's important to remember that they are not the central focus of the argument."
- They are exactly the focus of the argument. You want a change. A change that might help you with your problems, but won't do anything to/ for other people with different experience/ might make it even worse for them. Don't worry, I won't pry, but it just reads as if you are below 500 hrs of playtime. Probably even below 300 hrs. At that point you perceive everything differently than a person with let's say 3k. So the change that might help you will absolutely destroy the matchmaking for the 3k+ people.
"The main point here is to emphasize the need for a balanced and enjoyable gameplay experience that takes into account individual skill levels and survivor strategies."
- Again: You can't take individual skill levels into account. It is a 4v1. So the system tries to level the 4 survs as a team vs. the 1 killer. That already ends in maybe 3 juicers and 1 random pepega. Not really fun if you play in soloQ and instantly are in a 3v2 scenario because one survivor acts like the killer's right hand.
"An argument that you presented suggesting that allowing survivors to swap characters and engage in lobby shopping adds variety and unpredictability to the game."
- Not necessarily. But I can tell you something interesting. If you have people sitting on their mains, with their items in hand from the get go, it just makes queuetimes longer. I have a friend with a P70 Claud with a year 4 crown. It's a game mode in and of itself to count the killers dodging (and we managed to get it up to 19 times once I think), because we don't hotswap loadouts last second. Love playing queue simulator. :)
- A better solution would be to hide the prestige badge completely, as it takes away the initial "oh nonononono" moments. Also another good change would be to actually show the survivors the killer's ping. That would help everyone involved. If killers are allowed to lobbyshop, survivors should also be allowed, if the killers ping is above 100 ms. It would be balance after all.
"The proposed solution of character locking is to address this imbalance and create a fairer environment for all players."
- See, that doesn't create fairness. A good player stays a good player, no matter what character they play on both sides. It just creates restrictions that aren't really needed.
"Not to mention the VARIOUS BUGS still in the game that can easily be abused by these toxic players."
- Which ones exactly? I can't think of a specific bug that gives survivors a huge advantage. If you mention things like that, you gotta follow it up with proof. Otherwise it's just a made up argument.
"The claim that Dead by Daylight is not a competitive game, (Which is completely untrue, as it revolved around two side competing for success to their objective quickly and efficiently, the rewards and after-trial mechanics enforcing an exactly competitive mindset on players normally) but that does not mean it should lack balance and fairness."
- DbD does not have a competitive playlist. You don't have ranks that up your MMR. The only thing the rank does is give you BPs. I can be the best player in the game and loop the killer for 5 gens, then die for whatever reason and I leave the match with less BPs than the survs that held M1 on 5 gens and did nothing else. If the game were competitive, the one actually competing would receive the biggest reward.
- Thinking that the game is competitive puts you in a stressful situation/ mindset, because you have to compete in order to win. (Mind you, winning isn't defined anywhere. When do killers win? If they sacrifice 3 people? 4? If they close the hatch?) If you see the game as it is, aka a glorified party game, it gets easier.
"A game can still offer challenging and engaging experiences while ensuring that both sides have an equal opportunity to succeed."
- Last time they put out an official ratio like that, wasn't it like a 60% in favor of the killer? (I might be remembering wrong so take that with a grain of salt as I do not have the link to prove what I'm saying, but I'm sure googling for it will help you finding the info.) You can't balance the game to be 50%/50%. That would mean nerfing killers even further.
"Disregarding the concerns of players who feel overwhelmed or targeted by certain survivor tactics would do a disservice to the community as a whole, specifically towards killer mains."
- I'm not saying that it should be disregarded. Concerns are valid. But not every 'solution' someone puts out is a good solution. (How do we say in germany? Too many cooks spoil the broth.) Especially if you do not have the necessary knowledge to back up a 'solution'.
"Where the suggestion is made for the killer to mix up their actions, it's important to remember that it is not always as simple as that."
- No ofc not, it was a theoretical scenario. It's more the general idea of trying different things instead of making the same mistake over and over again. That's how you improve in dealing with certain situations.
- I had to generalize with that scenario as I couldn't tailor one directly to your needs/ struggles. After all, I have no idea how you play.
"Things such as joining community groups, seeking practice partners, or watching guides are a good idea to be fair, However; While these suggestions have merit in terms of personal improvement, they do not fully address the core issue of balancing the game mechanics to ensure a fair and enjoyable experience for all players."
- Imagine you actually improve as a player yourself. That would also change your view on balance. Which would also change your view on possibilities for change.
"I.E the one sided form of character locking."
- See, this exists because a killer has a power. And you queue up to play with said power. As I already stated: Survivors don't have a power. So locking them makes no sense. All that it does is locking survs from spending their bloodpoints on lower survs for example, while they wait for the killer to ready up. As mentioned, swf that hotswap are far and in between. So you'd punish all the normal survs that just want to efficiently spend their time (that's how I see it for example).
"The suggestion to prioritize changes to existing content before introducing new additions is based on the idea of solidifying the foundation of the game. By addressing existing imbalances and improving gameplay mechanics, the overall experience can be enhanced."
- But that might also break the game. Now imagine they shake up the meta before a new chapter releases: You have to rethink how you play in your specific role with perks you might've not ran beforehand. This might end up balanced. Now the new chapter releases. You get even more perks to figure out and try to buildcraft with. This might change the previously balanced game to being onesided.
- The MFT discussion shows why people don't do well with new things. Imagine they have 2 new things to deal with back to back.
"Overall, I believe that you're attempting to push against my entire point not because of that it "pushes lobby shopping" but because I have a heavy feeling of bias, and that it's becoming quite apparent that I'm simply not folding because you decided to speak out against my idea of change.
Like you said.. "Normal human behavior, so eh."
Normal human behavior to reject the idea of change."
- Well your feeling is wrong. You posted an idea in a forum. That equals to people adding their 2 copper. I tell you my side of the story and why I think your idea is bad in the long run. You dismiss it as me being biased. I can't sway you, you can't sway me. We agree to disagree. But as you have every right to suggest changes, I do have the right to reply to it and tell you what I think. If you don't like that, then you should not post in an open forum.
- Imma repeat myself: Just because you think it is a good change doesn't mean it is a good change. You only see what this change would do to you and your experience. Not to everyone elses. Just because I tell you that I don't like your ideas doesn't mean I don't respect them. I just can't figure your skilllevel out to maybe help you with finding a middle ground. But since you don't want to provide this info, you can also not expect me to just 180 my opinion, because you obviously also reject the idea of your 'changes' not being the best for everyone else. It's just quite funny that you think I'm a normal human. That's kinda refreshing. :)
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@8peESC said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3484491#Comment_3484491
"Not curious, just appalled."
At this point, This part was from the rough draft and I intended on deleting it as it felt more like I was speaking a story than attempting to convey my actual message. Also appalled that I'm using the forums for a legitimate suggestion?
"Prestige doesn't equal skill."
You're right, it doesn't. However, the best argument I can provide is that these levels can determine whether or not these survivors have had long enough hours to essentially be able to figure out what perks they are best at using -- and be able to essentially find what perks crutch their possible LACK of skill (DS, DH, ADR, so on and so fourth). Sure, some players who SUCK abysmally at the game will have high P survivors, and it doesn't note that they will always have skill because they stucked and sucked through it -- but it's usually the case as higher levels mean that someone has more experience and thus could possibly have more skill in any scenario.
There is no such thing. If you let them "bully" you, that's a you problem. Don't play the way they want you to play. Problem solved."
They're literally called bully squads because of the fact that most of them attempt to use cheap tactics in order to frustrate the killer-player and essentially abuse them in a large sense outside of simple "Aha! I have flashlighted you as a distraction" when most of these survivors are classed as "Toxic" players for their heavy usage of Flashlights without changing their items out often, Meta perks that allow them to continue this behavior and essentially place more pressure on the killer not in just a gameplay form, but also essentially act as a big middle finger to their feelings and confidence whilst playing the game which turns out to be a large reason why most players tend to actually leave the game in their early stages of playing.
"You can lobbyshop as a killer. As a surv, I don't know WHO I'm facing, let alone their ping."
Sure you can lobbyshop, but that's why these players often change out their character to a LOWER RANKED in order to appear more favorable - like that of an anglerfish. Which is my entire point.
"Survivors are glorified skins. Meatbags if you will. No survivor has a fixed power or survivors pecific addons. Your train of thought doesn't add up" Because your train of thought isn't on the same track. You're also looking for shortcuts to the scenario -- in fact you ARE very correct.. They're skins. And with that, it doesn't change anything so they can literally sit their on their lowest ranked survivor and look like someone who doesn't have a single perk before slapping on their P34 nea with several perks that are aimed towards making the killer's life a living hell right before match-start, trapping the killer into the match before they can nope out."You are right.
"This makes zero sense. So why do you even ask for this?"
Because as you can tell, BHVR devs aren't exactly the best. Sorry not sorry, but as a critique and my years of playing DBD on both console and PC at this point -- The mechanic that I am outlining is literally leaving room for abuse of said mechanic -- This creates almost predatory behaviors in high ranked survivors or high skill survivors who want to be able to find newer killers and target them. This is one of the many issues that circulates DBD's community. Toxic. Behavior.
"Yeah, what mechanics are you talking about? Your MMR that is too high for you?" Fire off Boon: shadow step, I'm talking about the character lock that appears whenever a killer is in a match. Which is very different from survivors. My MMR is something I've gained, I will suck it up as that's literally not the issue.
"It is a 1v4 partygame. You can't balance 1v4s. Not the way you want it to be balanced at least."
It's a 1v4 party game with tuned in-match mechanics that is supposed to balance the game in it's own space. They didn't really think the part of where killers get trapped in with better players because of the fact they A. Smurf, B. MMR-hop from their lower ranked buddies and C. Angler them into a false sense of security with the matches. I've literally shat a brick before when I saw all four survivors equip the same character with flashlights or firecrackers, it's almost traumatic when I realized the match countdown has turned to red and I cannot escape what's about to happen to my braincells.
"You may ask BHVR to work on their matchmaking and MMR, but that's about it." It's almost like this is what I'm doing
"And here you are, speaking lots without saying anything. If you want to balance the player, you have to make it a 1v1. Only then can you pit skilllevel against skilllevel." and here you are hearing without listening to damn. I think you misunderstand out of a personal bias. A killer should be able to be an equal threat to ALL survivors, and the survivors be a threat to the killer in their own terms such as being able to waste the killer-player's time and complete objectives effectively -- doing this in a completely fair manner that allows for it to be based on all of the player's skill and competency -- like the survivor side of intended wordless communication, evasion, survival and objective completion while the Killer-player is meant to oppose this with a focus on skill exactly such as a possible change to the MMR system or better yet allowing for both sides to select easily on what they are able to handle in a sense.
If survivors can decide to switch it up and go from a itemless and perkless dwight just to change over to their nea who has all of the perks with their preferred perk combo along with a purple flash and the best add-ons for that flashlight? then the killer should be able to change over to their bubba in prep for what they're most likely going to do -- a same side of security and capability.
"personally don't mind running into people that have 30x my playtime. And it doesn't matter to me if they are a P3 or a P100. If they only run in a straight line without looking behind them, they obviously belong in the MMR range I queue into (Clarification: this was a generalized point. It usually doesn't happen but hey). This counts on surv as well as on killer side." That's on you if you do or don't.
"IMHO there are more pressing matters. So just learn, take the L once in a while. You won't get better if you only play against people on your or below your skill level." The intent I have is not meant to getting players who are below my skill level, in fact I want people who are WITHIN my skill level. How is one supposed to learn anything when all they get is harassed and unable to apply any pressure because three p100 megs flash them over and over and over, using SW and BTL to essentially have a flashlight that lasts longer than OW2's development? this is also meant to allow for either a fair pre-match decision system to occur. If the killer is locked to their exact killer, survivors should be stuck to their exact survivor as they have separate inventories. one side of the scale must not be tipped against the other.
"Another edit: This isn't meant to bash your opinion, it's just always the same. You guys keep asking for the wrong things, taking away dev time that would be better used otherwise. But I get it. It would be the easy way out instead of just putting the time in to get better."
Ah. okay.
"And here you are, speaking lots without saying anything."
"If you let them "bully" you, that's a you problem"
and various other things I've picked up in your writing tone.
And other pressing things exist yes -- but it's not a wrong judgement. I've never heard anyone actually bring this up, much less actively discuss it. In fact, I feel like changes to the game's existing content should happen BEFORE a chapter release or new killer and survivor that adds another bloodyfuckall mechanic that only further complicates the system and balance.
That is all.
Oh jfc here we go. Please forgive me if I miss something important you wrote, because your formatting does not seem to work in your or my favor.
Note to myself, no satire/jokes bc ppl take everything seriously (which is also appalling. /s) Also just because I am direct doesn't mean I am bashing you. (Just means I am a HFA.) You feel as if I'm blaming you because I don't agree with you, and you don't like that. Normal human behavior, so eh, I will try to make it sound less direct (which is basically the same as you do: Beating around the bush but ok, here goes....)
First of all, how about you start out with all the information we need about you?
- How many hours do you have in DbD?
- How many hours of those on killer and how many on surv?
- What MMR are you playing on (each killer)?
- How often do you run into "bully squads"? ("A lot" doesn't count as answer.)
You have said nothing in your initial post but "ree, people only flashy klick me and don't play the game like I want them to, so I gotta ask for a bandaid fix that doesn't help with my initial problem".
The reply leaves me wondering too. You say you want people in your skilllevel, yet you don't seem to understand the fundamentals of the DbD matchmaking.
So, again, you ask for a "survs are not allowed to swap characters" for what reason? Because you don't know if you should lobby shop or not? What does it matter, what a surv (swf or not) team has to you? There is no such thing as "winning by perks or items just because you have them" if the one using these items doesn't know what they are doing. If they DO know what they are doing and get away with it YOU do not know what you are doing. If YOU do not know what you are doing, they can do something against you. This ultimately makes the game fun for them. DbD is not a competitive game.
Let's have a theoretical scenario, shall we:
- Survivor A goes down in front of a locker. Survivor B jumps out of the locker to force the grab on surv A, flashy saves and they do it again.
Why do you pick up the downed survivor the next time?
See and here we have the issue.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. -Albert Einstein
Why not, instead of doing the same thing over and over again, mix it up? 'Oop, I bait the pickup, so surv B jumps out of the locker and -bam- M1!?' Bullyattempt failed, moving on.
Yes, facing people that try the cool stuff is annoying. (If I can do the cool stuff I do the cool stuff too.) Yes, they do swarm you, klick here, klick there. You chose to look into the light and pick up or you slug and go after the flashlighter. But that doesn't warrant survs to be neutered just so you can lobbyshop(, because they have a P20 and a flashlight in hand), get a worse team that you dominate and win and then up your MMR with it, so you get even harder matches until you get utterly destroyed and you end up at the start of the vicious cycle that is the DbD matchmaking/MMR system.
So in the end you do waste devtime with this suggestion, while it won't fix your initial problem of not being good enough to deal with certain scenarios because you are getting matched with people that outskill you or outprestige you.
So, how about possible solutions:
Why not get into one of the DbD communities (Discord, Reddit, you name it) and ask for 1v1 partners to learn the fundamentals first, if you don't like learning by doing? Why not ask friends to practice with you? Why not watch guides on how to counter things that annoy you?
I can't do more than give you food for thought. It's just a fact that if you want the easy way out, it won't get easier in the long run. It's just getting worse.
Also the fact that you basically note that EVERY swf (yes, that's how it reads) goes into low level lobbies by getting taxi'd by baby surv accounts is just absurd. So please, don't pretend this happens more than once in a blue moon.
(I've been in soloQ games before, where the killer thought we were a swf because we all individually played well, tanked hits, saved, etc. So just because you perceive it as the truth, it doesn't have to be.)
_____
"In fact, I feel like changes to the game's existing content should happen BEFORE a chapter release or new killer and survivor that adds another bloodyfuckall mechanic that only further complicates the system and balance."
Huh? So a new killer power or new survivor perks should only be added after every other aspect of the game get's 'changed'/'balanced'? What does that have to do with your initial issue? Why do you think it necessary to change everything before a new release? It will not change how you perform, if you do not know how to use the tools you've been given.
See, that's exactly what I mean: You speak a lot without saying anything of substance. Beating around the bush again. Changing topics every two seconds. No this is not to bash you, but please help people understand WHY you say the things you are saying by giving the necessary background information.
Edits because of randomly censored words. BHVR chatfilter at it again.
-
"Hello, dear readers. You've stumbled upon my post because of your curiosity of what this is about."
- Not curious, just appalled.
"Many a-killer-main has experienced this frustration: entering a match with same-ranked individuals who have a similar prestige to themselves and felt confidence in their ability to have a fun and fair match. Well, then the survivors turn out to switch their character over to one of a higher prestige, inevitably revealing that they are indeed not on the same playing grounds."
- Prestige doesn't equal skill.
"This, obviously is a conundrum as killers -- for absolutely no reason at all in a logical sense or mechanic sense -- have no way to counter this because many of these people, usually groups of Survive with friends players who are able to co-ordinate and effectively engage in what is known as "Killer bullying"."
- There is no such thing. If you let them "bully" you, that's a you problem. Don't play the way they want you to play. Problem solved.
"These survivors probably have most of the meta perks in their arsenal usually, and continue to grow their amount of perks as the chapters advance -- not only allowing for new killer mains and old killer mains alike unable to switch over to the killer they are most comfortable with or the best one that is good at countering the gameplay harassment killers experience."
- You can lobbyshop as a killer. As a surv, I don't know WHO I'm facing, let alone their ping.
"Killers should not be restricted in a way survivors are not -- as they can freely switch between the lowest leveled survivor they have as a way to fool the killer into feeling comfortable with the matchup before switching over to their prestige bloody 26 to have their purple flashlights and their usual slander of meta, unbalanced perks in order to essentially harass killers endlessly and to never allow them to secure a single confirmed or even a hook at times."
- Survivors are glorified skins. Meatbags if you will. No survivor has a fixed power or survivorspecific addons. Your train of thought doesn't add up.
"I'm sure this makes no sense, but if killers are restricted then so should survivors in order to prevent this behavior in the game as I have noticed that killers have to literally watch out for this just to be able to have fun in the game."
- You are right. This makes zero sense. So why do you even ask for this?
"most BASIC mechanics"
- Yeah, what mechanics are you talking about? Your MMR that is too high for you?
"Balance does not and will not exist in the game until something is done in order to be placed down as a simple platform for the in-match mechanics"
- It is a 1v4 partygame. You can't balance 1v4s. Not the way you want it to be balanced at least.
- You may ask BHVR to work on their matchmaking and MMR, but that's about it.
"Survivors need to be treated the same as the killer in the aspect of being a player"
- And here you are, speaking lots without saying anything. If you want to balance the player, you have to make it a 1v1. Only then can you pit skilllevel against skilllevel.
- I personally don't mind running into people that have 30x my playtime. And it doesn't matter to me if they are a P3 or a P100. If they only run in a straight line without looking behind them, they obviously belong in the MMR range I queue into (Clarification: this was a generalized point. It usually doesn't happen but hey). This counts on surv as well as on killer side.
- IMHO there are more pressing matters. So just learn, take the L once in a while. You won't get better if you only play against people on your or below your skilllevel.
- Another edit: This isn't meant to bash your opinion, it's just always the same. You guys keep asking for the wrong things, taking away dev time that would be better used otherwise. But I get it. It would be the easy way out instead of just putting the time in to get better.