coppersly
coppersly
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@Blueberry said:
If that was really the case, the smart move on their part would have been to at least let the community know those changes were coming and that was why. Instead they're gonna finish those change and already lost a bunch of people. IF this was true any way. I personally don't think so.
I honestly just think they believed all those killers were too strong/not fun to go against and that's why they think the changes were warranted. Of which I'd disagree with them though.
Yeah if they were doing it they would not skimp on the oppurtunity to ride finally getting a new mechanic/gameplay/objective in the game. They would play it up for months and get all that juicy free advertising.
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@immortalls96 said:
Give her back her base kit..she was one of the best designs this team ever made and they took it for granted
This is what I've been saying! She was THE model for killers to follow. Strong and versatile power that you can use whenever and however you want. If they had done more like her this game could've been the tits.
@Omans said:
The devs aren't foolish enough to revert the basekit changes. Basekit nurse was the strongest killer in the game, over all killers using addons. Reverting nurse basekit changes would be almost as big of a mistake as creating the first iteration of Legion.
This is where I disagree, I don't think they should make her weaker but instead bring other killers up to her level. She was the model killer for skill:reward and there was counterplay on survivors part that most choose to ignore/not use, and the counterplay actually took skill as well.
Now any survivor can loop Nurse, and there is a hard cap on your skill to reward ratio since you are limited after every single blink no matter what. You can only do so much with a finite amount of possibilities.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/912981#Comment_912981
PC patch notes:
Updated turn ratio of The Oni Demon Dash ability to improve controller turn-rate and hard-cap turning with keyboard.
And the other threads from today.
From the devs comments on it all that means is he can't turn past 90 degrees of the starting position. Not exactly something that would work well on Nurse since you have to 180 some hits.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/912806#Comment_912806
Didn't they just nerf Oni demon dash mouse movements? Apparently, they have the technology.
TBH I've no idea. I haven't played Oni and I haven't seen any before/afters so no clue.
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@Soultiller said:
Revert blink CD. At this point that wont happen, but id be okay with her not going on blink CD until she blink attacks so she still has map pressure and isn't force to single blink around the map to find survivors.
This or let it recharge while doing stuff so you can't 99% yourself over and over. I'd take either at this point.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Give her the oni treatment, revert her recent changes and make her controls on pc like console.
That's the inherent problem with her though, without some way to force mouse users to have the wildly inept turn ratio of a controller there is no way you could do that.
I mean you could shadownerf her sensitivity to like 0.6 but that would just be dumb.
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An idea I heard that I've shaped into my own:
You have a power meter that is continuous instead of discrete like it is now. Meaning you can draw from it to charge blinks (1st blink is regular amount, 2nd blink is x2.) No idea what the total amount should be, but enough that you can infinitely blink around with 1 blink (map pressure) but doing double blinks back to back would be limited to like twice or 3 times. The meter slowly recharges throughout the match not interrupted by anything.
What this does is reward using your blinks effectively since a fully charged blink will draw much more than shorter blinks for re-adjusting, mind games, etc... and it also limits the double blinks like the devs want. It is better than our current version because you aren't limited after every single blink and forced to play certain ways, and it actually rewards using blinks in a smart and effective manner unlike the live version which doesn't reward smart or bad play it just limits what you can do with her.
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I've been saying for a long time to make both of those basekit. So I agree.
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Why does everyone spout the nonsense argument "she goes through all defenses"
Yeah that's called playing the game differently. It's crazy how you have to do something other than run around a pallet for 5 minutes when a killer is used.
Eventually there is going to be another killer that ignores pallets and windows like Nurse does (she doesn't btw, she just goes around them differently. I have been pallet stunned many times and windows have saved people because of blinks getting eaten or going back through etc...) and that killer will have the same counterplay as Nurse. I.e., do something else besides run around a pallet for ages.
Why do people find that the most fun aspect of this game?
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She is weaker. It was a straight up nerf with literally no way to play her differently. In fact it forces you to play her in a very specific way or get extremely punished. This was a bad rework because it was lazy, it was dumb, and it was done by people who don't play and understand Nurse.
It does not make playing her take more skill, it just artificially limits the skill ceiling on Nurse. There is no other way to word it. With no way to make new plays and HER MINDGAME POTENTIAL GOING STRAIGHT INTO THE DIRT there is just this artificial ceiling that you hit where there is no way to be more skillful with blinking since you are limited every single time you blink.
It was poorly done. If you must nerf her PLEASE listen to those of us who play her and understand her. We can give you nerfs that are still fun and leave skillful gameplay intact.
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@Bingbongbong said:
Let's just Let him attack out of cloak and become the new supreme
Honestly with how loud he is when "invisible" paired with his mediocre invisibility and I don't really see any reason why he shouldn't have this. With a long swipe animation and even longer animation for failing? It would honestly be just what he needs to secure A+ tier.
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No problem.
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@LegionOfDumb said:
Question: Does Surge activate if you grab someone from a gen/vault/ locker/etc.? I was never sure
No it does not. Only from m1 downs -- nothing else.
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@Drazen said:
surge is a really bad perk it only adds 6 and a half second to a gen also it is limited to 32m radius with 60 sec cooldown. Great idea for a perk but weak
What made is strong when I was playing was the fact it saved you from having to kick the gen. I got SOOOO used to never kicking gens and saving time from that.
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I think most people would agree with you. I can really only think of one scenario where I preferred having rank 3 to rank 1 on the perk.
As Nurse sometimes I would be busy doing something else and the extra 4 seconds would be a life saver because I was able to see the yellow before it wore off. Not exactly the biggest reason to not change it but I do see use in the current form.
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I see how they are similar, it's hard not too. But take into account DS is a free escape for EVERY survivor and has no counter except waiting for it to run out I'd say it's pretty strong.
NOED can be destroyed before it is ever used, it only activates for a very small portion of the game if it even activates, and there are 4 survivors to 1 killer. Naturally the killer is going to have a stronger perk, if you're asking for them to be on a 1:1 power ratio you're smoking crack.
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@Zerog said:
No. Not all swf are sweaty tryhards some people just wanna have fun with friends, alot dont even talk about the match in question and centrally not every single swf uses coms. Why should people be punished for that?
I totally get where you're coming from. I don't want to punish people for playing with their friends.
But why should I be punished as killer by HAVING to face SWF that are toxic and destroy the intended balance of the game?
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@Mr_K said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/907999#Comment_907999
It's because she can still blink through objects. They want her to be like Demogorgon but with the same base stats.
I always thought they might add some character that is like Nurse but is just really good at hitting survivors anytime they're in a straight line in front of the killer.
Little did I know that's what they were gonna turn Nurse into. Yeet yourself to whatever is in your eyesight or pay the price of wasting so much time.
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@FriendlyGuy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/906796#Comment_906796
I want a basekit revert too. But calling her weak and underpowered is just straightout wrong.
I didn't call her weak and underpowered. She's weaker that's for sure but I don't doubt those masochist enough to still play her are still strong. But my point stands who wants to play her now that's she's so terribly unfun.
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@DwarvenTavern said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/906112#Comment_906112
That will be amazing
Honestly I'd love to see him get an interesting and unique power. That would be rad.
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@TheCrookedMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/906076#Comment_906076
Just saying, I'm completely trash with nurse and barely play her but even then I'm able to get 2 kills at least with her.
That's all well and good but I want some clarifying factors:
What rank?
Are they SWF?
I feel like you would not be saying this if you were playing her in high elo.
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@FriendlyGuy said:
Nurse is fine m8. She's just extremely unfun atm. And i don't think the game is really survivor sided in solo queue atm.
Call me crazy but you usually don't call a character that is mind numbingly unfun to play fine. She may not be trash but who wants to play her? No one.
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@Waffleyumboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/893883#Comment_893883
DH was far behind it. Obviously you haven't seen all the people saying SB is better than DH and all of the popular streamers not using DH as it was overhyped and now does not even work most times.
It certainly has fallen in terms of effectiveness and reliability, but the fact remains when it works it's a free health state that can extend chases. Not the king of exhaustion for sure.
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@Peanits & @AvisDeene You both bring up good points I suppose. I've always envisioned playing killer with a friend since the begging. Maybe that could be the real competitor to DbD if someone ever makes a dedicated 2v8 horror game.
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If it's anything like the recent "addon" rework we got then you can expect Bubba to have a new power :)
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@PodgeNotRodge said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/905825#Comment_905825
Take the depip out of the equation, cause all that is saying is that it's a high rank hanging back at lower rank, killers can do that too. Take a genuine rank 15 on both. Sure basic perkless killer will shred through because they have bloodlust, large hit boxes, depending on the character, a great ability. Survs only have the loop to fall back to. The way I see nurse at lower ranks was that even though we had them every once a while, they were either good with her to know how to utilize her which made it impossible for low ranks to counter play or yeah they were bad. Which is another factor in this game. Take perfect nurse vs survivor. If the nurse has total control, survivors have little to no chance. The loops are all they have which can be cut cause it's a nurse. The only way a perfect survivor can beat a perfect nurse is to rely on the killer screwing up somewhere and taking advantage.
Rank is meaningless in this game unfortunately since they constantly do a rank reset, although I guess it'll be slightly better now after the recent changes but the point still stands. So with that I argue that any good Nurses you saw in low ranks were there because of rank reset, not because they actually belong there. I PROMISE you baby Nurse is a term for a reason, it means anyone who hasn't at least become adept with Nurse will usually lose and be extremely easy to loop/loose.
Perfect Nurse vs Perfect Survivor is hard to say. There are so many factors from maps to perks that would change the outcome. I'd argue if they were a perfect survivor they could probably loop Nurse for a little bit. Maybe not minutes upon minutes but that really shouldn't happen on any killer tbh. And usually the argument is actually the other way around, survivors can make huge mistakes and still escape/pip but if killers make even 1 mundane mistake or misplay it can cost them the entire game and even 0k. She was like the one killer that actually punished you for mistakes, now you can just lala jog in the park and she will take forever to catch up now. So dumb.
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@Peanits said:
The short version is because we'd rather focus our efforts on the main game before branching out into different gamemodes. To use 2v8 as an example, that would be a nightmare to balance. Even if both killers are chasing someone, that's still 6 people on generators. There's no way you could apply enough pressure to stop them. Beyond that, it would split the playerbase, which means longer queues for everyone.
I wouldn't be against it some day, but it's not exactly a priority.
Why can't it be an extension of KYF though? At this point I don't think those of us who are wanting a 2v8 mode are particularly concerned about balance at this point. We'd be more than satisfied with just the ability to do it, no need to actually spend time to balance it.
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@PodgeNotRodge said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/905740#Comment_905740
No need for the aggressive behaviour man, cause all you sound like now is some aggressive child that has a problem playing his favourite killer. Which your not, so easy on the insults. You dont have to like my point, there are plenty on this thread that believe nurse is fine and others that say she isn't. Are we wrong to think otherwise, no. I just gave an opinion. To each their own. People believe nurse should be buffed for stupid reasons but I dont start throwing aggression at them. I've seen nurse dominate for so long, stuff happens. Shes still strong, again, just toned down how free and aggressive along with a sense of flexibility. To change something for one rank bracket means changing for all. So what seems fair for red ranks might not for greens yellows etc. Nurse was changed cause she dominated ALL brackets, like Spirit, like Billy. And now Oni and Ghostface now. I'm sure they'll tweak her if people complain enough sooner or later. I just think she isn't as bad as people make her out to be and that they should give her time. Killers are generally meant to use addons to sget results anyways. It's not like you'll have an empty survs doing well unless good map rng. If you want a basic killer to be able to do well with nothing is kind of asking alot considering. But hey again, just a thought.
Except she didn't. She was only saw proficient use in red ranks on PC. All other ranks and consoles she saw little to NO play because she isn't good until you master her.
And I also disagree again, she was the model of what killers should be. Capable without addons, but enhanced with them. And yes blank survivors do do well all the time, that was shown with depip squad.
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I agree with you actually. The game is not balanced and still has a long way to go, so with that knowledge we might as well add another KWF like mode or even extend KWF to include a 2v8 mode that is never balanced for. Purely and utterly ignored, purely for fun. I think that's reasonable.
I mean look at Star Wars Battlefront 2. That game has tons of modes that are extremely buggy and unbalanced yet people still play them because they're fun. What's to lose besides like a few months max of development to implement it and then do small bug fixes?
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@PodgeNotRodge said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/905651#Comment_905651
And Oni is a shell of Billy but he has to work for it. Same rush practically, just slower with better spin control upon landing. Billy is faster but tighter turns. Original Nurse was broke, obviously. Too easy to win with, any time it was her or Spirit. I just stood still. What you're asking for is a Nurse that has free travel and easier hits with little punish. Which is honestly not going to work for any survivors. Ive played nurse a few times in her old base form and I even got 2 kills green rank without even utilizing her. Just spamming random directions. Were survivors bad, possibly. But it proved that even a bad nurse gets rewarded which shouldn't be the case. New Nurse is harder to utilize sure, they have just toned down how free and aggressive she plays. And if they do change her again, they'll need to change survivors too. This crack of killers are not fun; again, sounds like Tru3, is not the case of buffing killers while needing maps and survs for easier killer games. There needs a balance at all sides.
I mean if you look like 3 or 4 posts above yours you'll see why it isn't just an "easy win" since you had to do everything right while blinking or you literally missed every single time and do not get rewarded for it. And again, no such thing as free hits. Any free hits you get as Nurse are because of the survivor, not Nurse.
I can't even tell you how stupid that example you give is. Like I literally lack the literary skills neccesary to tell you all the ways in which that argument is stupid and doesn't mean anything. I mean green ranks? Fully aware survivors were probably potatoes? Still uses it like it's a solid example.
Yes, the rework does limit her aggressiveness and FLEXIBILITY. It did nothing but limit her. It offers nothing in the way of playing her in a different way. In fact, it forces you to play her in a very specific way or you are going to have a bad time, which I remind you is bad killer design. Secondly, she lost alllllll mind games since you will ALWAYS lose the mindgame because of the recharge. Every. Single. Time. So yes, she is severly more limited than before and able to do way less other than the rigid playstyle they have forced her into. Well done indeed.
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@PodgeNotRodge said:
So much hate for Nurse when I feel she is still lethal as she is now. With the right setup, you still have amazing blinks. Recharges are not that bad, makes for smarter play instead of just wiffing a blink out. I faced a new noob nurse resorting to slug camp. Compare to high rank that designated before 3rd gen popped, shes a killer that takes practice. Survivors cant do much cause she doesn't need to break pallets, she can go through most obstacles. Travel long distance for sneak attacks. Combine with perks, she isn't as bad everyone makes out. She has everything she had before but requires more effort and thinking (imo).
I hate this argument so much. It seems like you've never read the response to this ludicrous argument before: You can't "spam blinks" or just "wiffing a blink" You have always had to aim, time, and predict correctly to land hits with blinks. There are never free hits unless they are literally running into your open arms. So stop trying to pass that off as some sort of intelligent argument with depth because it is neither of those.
And she only requires more thinking because you have to factor in how punishing and useless her power has become now. You are essentially just a demogorogon that can shred through walls. Think about it, you aren't rewarded for using it to traverse the map anymore, and you CAN'T do mindgames anymore because you immediately lose them every time because of the recharge. So what does this leave you with? The same exact mechanic Demo uses with shred but you can do it through walls. That's what she's become, a shell of another killer that is more specialized... Not her own unique and powerful killer.
She may still be powerful and more than capable of 4k, but who want's to play a killer where you are constantly receiving negative feedback and are artificially limited not by your SKILL but by her new kit mechanic?
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I hope it's the next or close to next map they have planned for reworking because I agree it is a very stressful and annoying map as any killer.
Less so with Hag and Trapper but still not enjoyable if they know how to abuse the 2nd story windows.
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@CrowFoxy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/903362#Comment_903362
Most of her new add ons are awful, is also a thing.
Who thought that disabling your power and making you a literal blank m1 killer for a minute was somehow a reward for landing a blink attack as Nurse?
Who. Thought. It. Was. Good.
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The real stealth counterplay for Nurse comes from having to look away from survivors so often lol
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@CrowFoxy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/903223#Comment_903223
Yes, agreed. Instead of making her harder, she is now instead just capped by the devs. Your skill doesn't matter in a lot of cases.
Exactly. In scenarios where you used to have options based on your skill on what you wanted to do is now artificially just wait until you have a perfect 1 blink attack or you suffer extreme performance loss and potentially lose the game from one bad read alone.
If you guys want to give me good suggestions on what would be better than the current rework I'd love to gather them all up and make a thread that they can hopefully read like that legion one. I would love to play this game again but the current Nurse feels like an insult to play rather than enjoy.
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I agree.
They didn't make her skill cieling any higher, in fact I believe they completely and artificially lowered it. Before the rework you could play her multiple different ways and achieve good results. Now you are forced to play in more or less one playstyle and you can not do mind games anymore or risk wasting minutes worth of chase.
This change did nothing to make Nurse more skillful, only harder to use. Nothing about it requires more skill, only patience and playing one way or losing.
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I totally agree that they should be focusing on fixing what's already in game but that's not going to happen. Their design philosophy for balance on the game is to release new killers and perks that address problems in the game instead of just fixing the problems.
This is course only works until there are more than 4 issues and you're out of perk slots to stop the horrid design choices.
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@Liruliniel said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/110835/killer-is-honestly-so-unfun-at-red-ranks-atm
Improper pressure distribution is what makes that happen.
Tru3 is a pretty trash I wouldn't use him as your basis for good or bad arguments. While his YT vids are generally good he edits them heavily to get rid of his screeching, rage fits, and him denying stupid stuff from his stream. His skills decline around the time he realized he lost viewers because he tried to switch to MK11 and jumped back to DBD. A game he obviously no longer enjoys like he once did.
Even with perfect pressure survivors just have too much control over the match.
And if a killer is having to play 100% optimal at all times in red ranks to even stand a chance but survivors can dick around and have fun and STILL pip is that really fair? There is obviously a problem if one side can just do whatever they want and that's the standard and the other has to fight tooth and nail the whole trial just to even get a chance at fun.
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@Rasinbran said:
I just play her no add ons now. Before the patch it was just badmans tooth and pocketwatch, now Idk what to run.
I'd say allow her to recharge blinks while using them instead of having to go those precious seconds without using it or risk being able to only use 1 blink.
That would be a good band-aid fix for her right now. Not a solution but certainly would go a loooooong way in helping recovery her fun and fluidity.
@TheCrookedMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/901379#Comment_901379
LOL No there won't 😂
Did you look inside your crystal ball to predict the future?
Ok enjoy playing the exact same way against one killer as you do the entire rest of the cast. Because that is just so fun.
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@TheCrookedMan said:
Nurse was and still is absolutely broken. Ignoring all defenses outright is game breaking. Literally breaking the rules of the game. But in terms of fun, I don't k ow what to tell you.
At some point there is going to be another killer that is like Nurse that ignores a majority of the current defenses in game. The counterplay will be the exact same as Nurse for the most part; you will have to do something other than run around pallets all match.
Will that be too OP as well? Will the only balanced killers be ones that can be looped? We should be trying to make MORE killers that challenge you to play the game very differently. It makes it more diverse and not the same monatonous task over and over.
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@xChrisx said:
What about stop complaining and suggest other changes? The old nurse will not come back, deal with it
There are a ton of suggestions from Nurse mains. You have to be actively choosing to not see it at this point.
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@Verconissp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/899289#Comment_899289
I mean, Billy is balanced with new and veterans.. Trapper is somewhat balanced, still needs a small buff imo, Nurse? Nah, punishes the new players literally, doesn't help
I seriously hope you're not suggesting we should be balancing the viability of killers around new players because that kind of reasoning is responsible for the lack of viable killers in red ranks right now.
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Most recent update changed to alert survivors of status effects when they are applied for the first time. So NOED applies the exposed status which gets shown to everyone now even if you hit an injured survivor.
I think it used to be ninja and you wouldn't know for sure until someone healthy was downed but it makes sense to alert everyone to the exposed. Just more consistent.
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@SammyWasabi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/900687#Comment_900687
It was tho, if you needed more than 2 blinks, you weren't a skilled nurse. The cooldown on her blinks for basekit wasn't needed I'll agree with that.
That's what I was saying. I loved playing omega-blink but I wouldn't be sad with it gone as long as base-kit Nurse was untouched but now she's not only got no real good addons but now she's also janky and very unfun.
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@SammyWasabi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/900603#Comment_900603
She can hear survivor's footsteps, breathing, grass rustling, groans of pain.
Survivors can hear, her footsteps if they're lucky.
Survivors can't tell if she is phasing except for a bug, or an inconsistent method that would most likely get you killed.
It's a complete guessing game for survivors, standing still and the survivor guessing wrong isn't a mindgame.
Stridor insta counters iron will, and allows for louder normal breathing.
Also nurse is still top tier, she just can't be used by people who aren't willing to put in the time to use her and just slap 5 blink or omegablink.
Her basekit changes had nothing to do with the addons for 5 blink and omega. Literally nothing, it was overkill. thanks.
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Or at the very least change the basekit nerf into something better. There are so many suggestions from players on this forum alone that are much better changes to lower her power while still making her fun to play. I don't want to say anything would be better than the changes we got but certainly there is so much more in the way of better changes they could've gone with than the one we got :(
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You say it like while she's phasing she can see survivors and know exactly where they are but the fact is when she's phasing she is playing almost the same guessing game you are as a survivor now that collision is gone.
Sure there are addons and perks that help tracking but just the same there are ones that help survivors hide those. She's fine now, the nerfs were actually semi well done and left the killer in tact with her identity and fun factor largely unaffected. Nurse is the exact opposite.
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@LordRegal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/899605#Comment_899605
A lot of veteran nurses, like myself, are complaining about how unfun she feels more than anything. I straight up don't enjoy playing her post nerf and have dropped her despite her being my main before this. Blink-Wait-Wait gameplay is extremely unfun, and I enjoy playing any killer other than Leatherface more than her now.
I'd have more fun trying to install windows with a corrupted ISO than play live Nurse.
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@Karltastisk said:
Maybe they could introduce new killers that have their "power" be an alternate gamemode?
Anything that can't be solved with ring-around-the-pallet isn't "fun" enough.
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@Waffleyumboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/897107#Comment_897107
I think you said "viable" instead of "broken". There are reasons why she was nerfed bud
It's funny you say that because it wasn't her over-performing that lead to the changes. Something about the way her power interacted with the game they didn't like so they changed it on the backend and also included some lame ass balance excuse.