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1. penalties to dc's would mean everyone who does dc would just die on first hook instead, no difference
2. if your idea became a thing people who regularly dc from certain maps, killers, etc. would just keep their bloodpoint value low, meaning little to no effect
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I CAN'T SEE
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her fountains shouldnt spawn so out of the way. like on swamp they can spawn in the corner of the map, making getting corrupt purge from them waste a lot of time.
@Saint_Ukraine said:
I think that the fountains shouldn't heal survivors. That's one of the main things that prevent her from being a strong killer.
this defenitely shouldn't be a thing. the heal is what gives survivors incentives to use them. if they didn't heal, smarter players would just deny her corrupt purge, and stay injured (they already do, but it would be more prominent in solo play)
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@ColgateAdvancedWhite said:
Killers have no crutch perks. It's all skill-based
LOL
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try to save cuz no killer interaction is boring. which is why I don't understand why people defend camping by telling me to just do gens. I'm trying to have fun not hold m1 through gens and leave without being chased
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where's haddonfield?
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monstrous- sure
hangman's- sure
lullaby- sure
devour- no, too powerful
third seal- only counters solo play, unnecessary
overwhelming- NO CUZ IM BIASED
beast- sure
ante- I dont think a lot of people actually understand how powerful a kobe is. a kobe removes all pressure because no one has to go for the save until 2nd stage. this could easily be abused especially if everyone brings it in a swf. also make up the ante affect ace in the hole if it already doesnt
plunderer's- YES
streetwise- sure, commodious with instructions + socket swivels could be really broken combined with it tho
not happening- sure
pharmacy- personally I prefer the green medkit. it heals others faster than the purple and doesnt consume charges as fast. they both last long enough for 2 full heals.
open-handed- sure
no one left behind- so if I cap altruism its as useless as it is in its current state. should be like WGLF where the bloodpoints are awarded post-trial (bonus points even if u cap)
autodidact- could be a bit TOO strong. 5 stacks of autodidact is almost an instaheal, id run it all the time if the skill checks triggered that often
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@MhhBurgers said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/392750#Comment_392750
Guess there's no good killers in this game then because everybody including the best streamers get ran like idiots currently if the survivors play perfect. I don't give a Crap about 4ks. Once I get my achievement ill give the hatch again anyways but it feels ######### to know that you won just because your opponent was trying to have fun while you played sweaty.
the best players run enduring/spirit fury on killers that deal with loops, bait survivors into unsafe positions, and quickly get rid of loops they can't mindgame (and they avoid broken structures such as the main building on disturbed ward), while winning most of the mindgames on loops they can. I can't remember the last time I saw Scott or zubat get "ran like idiots". also just because you play well, doesn't mean you're sweating. you can have fun while playing your best lol. just like how u don't care about 4ks I dont care about escaping, I just hope the match was enjoyable
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instead of just hopping on the first gen you see, try scouting the area and take a mental note of where pallets and windows are
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@Master said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/391864#Comment_391864
It will only hurt those SWF who wanna bully low rank killers
or it would only hurt those swf who wanna play with their friends
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"Its common among all other competitive games I know, so why not do the same in DBD?"
dbd isn't a competitive game, and your suggestion to prevent people from doing swf with their friends cuz of rank will only hurt the game
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judging by this tweet I think you should just not use the perk
https://twitter.com/No0b3_tv/status/1111036475032756225?s=19
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@NuclearBurrito said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/390840#Comment_390840
"'i deserve to instadown you' and im the one sounding entitled?"
When someone is using a sentence to show that a line of reasoning leads is ridiculous they obviously don't actually agree with the line being used. No ######### "I deserve to instadown you" sounds entitled, that's the whole point of saying it. To show how entitled that line of reasoning is
I sort of skimmed over it since he wasn't even providing a real argument, just a horrible comparison through an example, oops
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@Maximus7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/391633#Comment_391633
Survivors have perks that counter a killer's power (DH for Nurse, Small Game for Trapper, Calm Spirit for Doc, etc). I think killers can have some counters.
2 of those have some sort of time based cool down as a drawback, so they're not complete counters (dead hard isn't even really one because it can still be baited out with their 1st blink, or u can just not swing once u learn they have it) no one complains about calm spirit countering doc because its already an almost useless perk that is rarely used. plus calm spirit only counters doc's tracking, you'll still receive penalties from madness
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I always thought it was weird dance with me only hides your scratches for 3 seconds, but then distortion and poised hide them for like 10
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survivor points are way worse than killer points, they dont have the bloodpoints to constantly rebuy addons.
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@Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/390985#Comment_390985
You get hit with an exhaustion add-on from say, a Huntress hatchet, or a Clown bottle, you have PLENTY of space and time to kill 20 seconds unless you let the Huntress get very close before she hit you with the hatchet. And with every killer but Huntress iirc, they still have to hit you twice after you’re exhausted.
u dont get I'm saying the add-on benefits you situationly now, not just a free complete counter to a perk.
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@Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/390840#Comment_390840
Your proposed change is pointless because on most maps it’s not hard at all to survive a chase for 20 seconds.
that's true. that may not always be the case after the initial exhaustion hit though. the way you're describing it is the exhaustion add-on hits as soon as a chase starts. dont forget during those 20 seconds any window, or elevation you used wont give you a sprint burst, and you might not be able to find another structure. the survivor has to last during those 20 seconds and THEN make it to a structure they need to activate their perk.
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@MhhBurgers said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/390845#Comment_390845
Survivors who play perfect are still faster because they have less traveltime around those short objects, maybe go after somebody who's NOT better than you.
if survivors were faster when looping, every loop would be an infinite. use your strafe keys next time u play killer.
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@MhhBurgers said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/390797#Comment_390797
I wish killers weren't loopable and actually retained their 115% movementspeed during loops but a killer main can dream.
stop walking into objects and u wont slow down. theres ur 115%. learn how to run loops and they wont be a problem at all. or play legion cuz game too hard :(
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@Caretaker said:
I love this sense of entitlement. "I equipped the perk, I deserve to use it!" No the hell you don't. If that's the case then stop crying about Iri Heads, Prayer Beads, etc. I bought it, I used it, I can do what I want. I deserve to insta-down you. Just like you apparently deserve a free instant heal from death with little to no effort and 0 counterplay.
Exhaust perks are utterly broken, and completely ruin the momentum of a chase. It doesn't even counter the worst one, SB. You can work around exhaust too. You get hit with it once, you know they have it. Plan ahead. I love how countering killers is 100% fine, but a medicore counter to survivors best perks is suddenly a grave injustice.
thats not true at all. reread my post. i proposed a change so countering exhaustion perks isnt so free, and you have to actually capitalize on them being exhausted. comparing exhaustion perks to iri heads, or prayer beads is REALLY stupid, they dont even closely relate in strength. one you can only use once per chase, the other you have all game. "i deserve to instadown you" and im the one sounding entitled? because i think free and easy counters to perks that are already so limited use isnt fair? you say u can work around exhaustion addons but please tell me how im supposed to constantly stay position around an elevated area? and if im running deadhard i should just not heal right?
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wish basement stairs were wider so ######### like this couldnt happen
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@HazeHound said:
Every person complaining about exhastion addons is basically saying: I can't do literally anything outside looping. Pigs exhaustion is per trap, very rare you will actually have it on you + its actually not beneficial for Pig to tunnel trapped guy if there are multiple people. Huntress and Clown are way more powerful.
you sure got me. I can't hold m1 on a gen or hide in a corner. darn!
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@Boss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/389459#Comment_389459
I indeed can't say that, nor do i want to.
I didn't say it isn't a main reason, i said it isn't THE reason, i wasn't dismissing anything.
I read your reasons before and find them invalid.
It'll always make them function while other equipment can still be nullified, some even without counter-equipment.
Exhaustion shouldn't get an exception as they already make great counters towards a few Killers' Powers while providing a general great bonus against any other Killer.
the only exhaustion perk I see countering some of the killer's powers is sprint burst, and that is irrelevant to this because sprint burst doesn't care about exhaustion addons. and what's wrong with great bonuses from positioning/timing? a lot of other perks reward you for something that don't have counters so why shouldnt exhaustion?
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dbd isn't a competitive a game. tell me if I'm missing the topic cuz I didnt watch the video
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@Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/54383/get-rid-of-exhaustion-addons
Why should you recover from exhaustion while running when it’s caused by an add-on? That would make the add-ons pointless. 20 seconds in a chase on a majority of map RNG is NOTHING. That’s one safe pallet, potentially two against a majority of killers.
Ive played some asymmetrical competitive MP games before DbD. It amazes me how much people who only play on the 4 side don’t understand the dynamics neededfor a balanced game. DbD is survivor sided because 1 of those 4 can keep the killer occupied for way too long to make balance viable. That’s why killers that ignore this rule (Billy, Nurse, Spirit and Legion to a degree) are constantly viewed as broken and unfun to play against.
A killer should be able to end a chase somewhat quickly, barring great survivor skill. But it’s not great skill that extends chases, it’s looping one safe pallet to the next, hopping around T walls, etc. Exhaustion add-ons help even the playing field in the chase a little, and killers like Clown badly need it. More killers need add ons that cause it, tbh. And I say that as someone who runs DH in every build.
bad maps, killers, setups, etc. are what make chases last as long as they do. those are what need to be fix and people need to improve for chases to be shorter. exhaustion perks are one of the last things to dictate a chase
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@Boss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/389433#Comment_389433
Limited use being mentioned twice does not automatically mean i see that as THE legitimate reason.
It's just balanced as it is, to put it more simple.
I guess i'll mention this twice as well: Sometimes you'll have certain equipment cancelled out certain equipment, it's how the game's always been and i prefer we don't fix what's not broken.
you can't say it isn't one of your main reasons, so dont try to dismiss it as it isn't one. also yes I understand that happens in the game but as I said earlier, I dont believe that should be the case with exhaustion perks for reasons u can scroll up to see
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@Boss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/389318#Comment_389318
I didn't say that i think all Add-ons are fine, you just assume that.
We're talking about an anti-Exhaustion Add-on, thus i say it's balanced with how Exhaustion works.
Please don't make mindless assumptions as you'll have a very wrong image of me.
Now then, about the first bit that you said: You're right.
If there was an Add-on that gave them anti-Exhaustion, a big permanent Haste bonus, Exposed forever etc. of course Killers would generally go for that on my Bloodweb.
Just the same as Survivors would generally farm for a Perk on their Bloodweb that allows them to insta-heal, sprint infinitely, repair Generators instantly etc. and then never run anything else in place of that Perk.
Thankfully, such things don't and won't ever exist and thus i find you trying to make it into an argument flawed.
The concept of anti-Exhaustion Add-ons is fine and should just stay.
when i described that mentality of yours, i was only referring to this topic because you've brought it up being limited use twice now, think topic related and u won't assume what u think I'm assuming. maybe I shouldve been more clear on that
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@fluffybunny said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/389091#Comment_389091
It's almost like killers don't want survivors to do their objective. @Master Survivors can't tunnel a gen. That would be like tunneling a hook. Do killers tunnel hooks? No? A more apt comparison is to compare tunneling to looping the killer in strong spots.
that is a 100% better comparison. both are dickish things that are unnecessary in order to win the game
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@Boss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/389225#Comment_389225
And then they're gone.
Unlike Perks.
And they're not guaranteed to give a benefit, just like Perks.
What if they bring other good Perks besides Exhaustion Perks? Boom, Add-on nullified.
You can argue you win either way because there's no Exhaustion Perks at all.
I argue that they now bring something else that can help just as well.
Here: Survivor has 4 Perks, 1 of which is Dead Hard.
Killer equips "Trigger Exhaustion" Add-on.
Survivor now has 3 Perks, the Killer's Add-on can be used.
And then this: Survivor has 4 Perks, none of which is an Exhaustion Perk.
Killer equips "Trigger Exhaustion" Add-on.
Survivor now has 4 Perks, the Killer's Add-on cannot be used. (Well yes, they get Exhausted, but it has 0 effect.)
Certain equipment cancelling out certain equipment is totally fine, and the power role cancelling out an ability that might not even be there with a consumable is totally fine.
if u want an addon that would be good for all situations, you'd bring one that does just that. if u want an addon to prevent exhaustion perks, you'd bring an add-on that does that. this isn't the Hannah Montana theme song. you also share the same mentality as Shad in which u believe because something is rare or limited use, it is balanced. that is something I can never support
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@Maximus7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/389234#Comment_389234
Exhaustion perks are the strongest perks survivors have. Of course there needs to be some counter (and for quite a few killers, there isn't).
with my proposed change there is still a counter, its just not as free as before, you have to actually capitalize on them being exhausted
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also to anyone arguing "why cant killers have stuff to counter survivor stuff", they can. exhaustion perks shouldn't be one of them. they're a 1 time use per chase, and you're not always guaranteed to be able to actually use them well (except sprint burst, but sprint burst doesnt care exhaustion addons)
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@Boss said:
Killers can't have equipment that counters Survivor equipment?
It's a 1-time use, or 2 if you place an expensive Black Ward.
Perks are forever.
Sometimes you'll just have bad match-ups.
You know, like how you may run Distortion, but they don't run any aura Perks at all.
it's a brown or yellow addon, I don't think people are worried about running out of them.
either way, you benefit because you don't have to worry about exhaustion perks or having your aura read. you could argue u wasted a perk/addon slot, but you brought them for a purpose and you got what u wanted
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@Shad03 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/389179#Comment_389179
Everything in this game is pretty fine. I don't mind SWF, I don't mind campers or tunnelers. Do I heavily dislike clicky clickers or t-baggers? Yeah. Do I dislike getting hit forever while on hook? Yeah. But that is not my main point.
I know flashlights have easy counters. I have no problems with flashlights. But to make a post about a add on which (at least on Huntress) may not take effect at all, is the equivalent (to me at least) of a killer complaining about items.
You prove my point with that Hex one. Three other people can do objectives (not counting any chase that could occur), while one guy can just work on totems. Equip a map and you need no one else.
Alright, I'll give you lee way on the Clown part if you are running Dead Hard. However, that is the thing. Unless the Clown player has the forethought of a god, he can't really use his bottles to counter Lithe/Sprint Burst/Balanced Landing. Since any smart survivor would use those perks before the Clown could hit them with a bottle.
Sprint Burst: Run as soon as you know it's the Clown, people do this already.
Lithe: With it's QOL it can be used like a better Sprint Burst, unless you aren't close to a window but like 75% of the gens are usually near a window 100% of the time. Except for the cornfield. [Bad Word] the corn.
Balanced Landing: This perk is situational as hell, and might not even work at all. That's not the Clown's fault, it's the map's fault for not having a elevated place.
Didn't get to say this earlier, but I hope your day is going fine.
we share really different viewpoints lol. I think a lot of things in this game have a problem but that's for another post.
I'm still not comfortable with how u feel about how flashlights being compared to exhaustion addons but that's fine.
yeah I was with u on hex perks not having everyone needed to counter them. only one that requires a lot to counter is noed because ALL totems need to be cleansed. if you assign 1 person to totems thats nearly 2 gens worth of time finding and cleansing them. and if someone is getting chased then only 2 people are on a gen. and if someone is on a hook and someone else is getting chased... you get the point (hopefully).
with balanced, if you're exhausted, it may not be worth running up that hill anymore, that is what I'm trying to get at. it would be the addon's fault, not the map. (as u said, its situational, so if that situation arises it doesnt even matter because of an add-on)
we both feel strongly about our own sides and I dont think we're gonna convince the other otherwise lol
also I didnt sleep last night but other than that I'm feeling fine, hope you're good as well
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a macro might be what you're referring to
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@Shad03 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/389160#Comment_389160
Completely killing momentum with a insta heal is pretty bad but since it's situational and rare, it's fine.
'A good killer can just knock down the person who has full health again.'
Sure, but that's still time you could have used for literally anything else. Sorry to use a strawman, but can you see my point?
You are doing the survivor equivalent of what killers do. Flashlight blinds exist?
Erase or nerf flashlights. Even though there are counters. (I dislike item complainers as much as I like add on complainers).
'Something as strong as completely removing a perk with no extra effort from your side isn't balanced to me.'
Hex perks would like a word with you. Yeah I know high risk/mediocre reward is okay when it screws killers but still. If you get hit with a hatchet and get exhausted then you got hit. I avoid hatchet throws all the time until the game says screw you and allows me to get hit.
And if you get hit by a Clown's bottle before the chase... Eh.
I'm sorry for making a wall but hopefully it brings my points and is easy on the eyes.
u believe even Insta heals are fine because they're rare, which I just don't get.
"You are doing the survivor equivalent of what killers do. Flashlight blinds exist?
Erase or nerf flashlights. Even though there are counters. (I dislike item complainers as much as I like add on complainers)."
I don't understand what you're saying here, flashlights have easy counters
u do have to at least put some effort into disabling a hex, if you are the one looking for it that is. its different when you flip it because there are 4 survivors and only 1 perk to disable, so not everyone has to contribute in disabling it
also tips on avoiding clown bottles? especially before getting injured to use dead hard? or making it to a window or elevation for lithe or balanced? doesnt sound reasonable to avoid a bottle until you reach something to use ur exhaustion perk, if ur not lucky enough to be on a gen really close to one of those
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@Shad03 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/389133#Comment_389133
You don't get my point. Everything in this game is completely situational. I forgot when, but I once had like two or more matches where the survivors I faced had no or only one exhaustion. Meaning if I did have a add on to counter Sprint Burst/Dead Hard/Etc, it'd only work on one person.
I'm not concerned about slots since I don't care much for trying to counterplay something I don't even know exists. Look, all I can say is that due to how situational the add ons are (and how few killers actually have it), they should remain. For the few who can actually use it.
I dunno, I can't word myself right at the moment.
you seem to think because its situational and limited to only a few killers its fine. thats not how you should judge balancing imo but I guess u feel differently. its like saying iri head is balanced because only huntress can use it. something as strong as completely removing a perk with no extra effort from your side isn't balanced to me.
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@Shad03 said:
They are using a valuable add on slot for a perk that someone might not even have.
Say me, I don't run exhaustion perks, so why the hell would I care if a huntress hits me with something that makes me exhausted?
I know I don't make up the majority, so my point might be moot. However, the killers are still gambling on the fact that the survivors would be running a perk that makes the add on useful. Besides, how often would a sprint burst user actually be affected? They start running as soon as they see the Clown or the Huntress anyways.
not everyone is a sprint burst user, they don't care about exhaustion addons I know that.
why bring up a point just to debunk it right after? the last time I saw a game with less than 2 exhaustion perks was when I was rank 20, we all know everyone (mostly) uses them.
if you're so concerned about that valuable addon slot, maybe this change is for the better to discourage people from using exhaustion addons if they aren't great in chases, so they'll choose something better.
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@DemonDaddy said:
I like the addons from an opposition perspective. They prevent us from getting to comfortable with the killers distance and always relying on that last second speed burst for the escape. Matches are far more interesting when you can't guarantee a single method escape.
I don't know many people who enjoy having their perks countered before they even have the chance to use them but hey to each their own
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@Master said:
God prevent that there are counters to survivor perks
Tunneling? You mean when survivors repair gens to 100% without switching them?
http://www.quickmeme.com/img/50/506b976da3e0771f469385a9b22e88e37fab67cc0ab9ec66c64279ba0ea7d757.jpg
you're comparing tunneling players to gens?
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@Kagrenac said:
Exhaustion doesn't make you slower it just prevents you from using a perk for a little bit. If you can't loop or win the chase without an exhaustion perk do you really deserve to have one? That's what I think at least; and I'm a balanced landing hero.
its not just a little bit, its until the chase is over, which means you'll never get to use your perk effectively. saying if u "deserve" a perk is confusing because you could say that about literally anything.
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thrill + ruin and this change would mean rip solo play
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a mori every game? no lol
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she is good. shes not the best, but shes also far from the worst. she's really just your standard m1 killer but also has the ability to get a free hit with her puke by making them broken. enduring/spirit fury is scary on her
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my mindset is a decent killer won't let a flashlight save happen, and if they're blinded at a pallet, they'll use their ears to follow u. theres nothing they can do to make your toolboxes or medkits completely useless.
also yeah firecrackers suck but they're pretty :)
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2019 and people are still complaining about the worst item in the game.
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@Master said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/387142#Comment_387142
It might help you with your math that there are 4 survivors (not exact then, but almost)
for one he didn't mention the whole team cleansing totems (which never happens, so using that as a basis is pretty dumb), and for two there is also the time spent searching for the totems themselves. so no, not even almost @HazeHound
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@HazeHound said:
Noed punishes survivors for not playing smart. Destroying all 5 totems prolongs game by 20 seconds. 20 seconds! If you want to genrush so hard keep noed in mind. And i know doing gens is survivor objective. That's good, do it. But play smart.
Quit with your entitlement attitude and adapt.
Edit: if you don't know totem spots you have maps, small game and Fapp's hunch. "But i need my 4 crutch perks hurr durr". Playing survivor effectively requires 0 perks...
1 totem = 14 seconds
all totems = 20 seconds????
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I read your first sentence and I'm not gonna bother to read anymore. using ur same horrible logic survivors should expect to survive and killers should expect to kill JUST because it's in their names. but that's not always the case, wanna know why? its an asymmetrical game with 2 sides competing to win, not a single player game vs bots