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That's a good change. EMPs shouldn't start generating until they are used.
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This killer is F tier. Survivors have EMPs 24/7. You have no power.
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EMPs are far too op. I can't use my power most of the time due to them.
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Badham. Honestly can't tell what the differenec is.
Haddonfield. Houses are infinites and you can only chase on the streets.
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@GRIG0 said:
The compensation is that you will now be able to move freely and explore the maps while looping those evil survivors ❤️
I think Bubba is fun to use (and verse) when not facecamping.
But the world is scary and I'm not sure if I am ready to leave the basement yet :(
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@Phyrqc said:
Take the word "rework" with a grain of salt, people. Reworks in this game are almost always just buffs rather than actual reworks.
That's because most of the killers they reworked were killers no one played since they were too weak.
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If MMR was shown, then maybe but it isn't, so it doesn't matter since it's purely used for balancing. You have the false perception that higher mmr is better.
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@Pulsar said:
Wraith is in a WAY better spot than Sadako and is not low-tier.
The reason he is stunned longer is to add counterplay to his Cloak. He moves faster, is almost completely invisible and is nearly silent.
I would not be against allowing him to pick up and instantly de-cloak. However, this isn't a high priority as he is already in a good spot, unlike Sadako, who is almost useless with a certain add-on combination
Otz considers him one of the bottom killers. See https://youtu.be/LJSjlGcjc78?t=2h33s. I know he rates Sadako lower but that's because the rating isn't based on Condemn playstyle.
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@Nebula said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3445968#Comment_3445968
Ok? He slugs hella hard and sweats harder than 99% of players. Doesn’t change the fact she’s a bottom three killer in the game and that Wraith is objectively better.
So you're saying you can get a 200 win streak with Wraith?
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Most people wouldn't play competitive mode. Most people complain about the other side playing sweaty. In competitive, every match would be sweaty.
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@Nebula said:
Wraith is such a better killer than Sadako. Giving him the things that make Sadako unique would just bump her even lower.
Bruh. OnePumpWille has a 200 win streak with her on this patch.
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Asides from Deadlock, slowdown perks only help you a small amount in this patch.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3443217#Comment_3443217
I'm genuinely curious now, what sort of compensation would you suggest for the camping nerf? Killers will already have the compensation in that the mechanic will be disabled in the endgame. And they've already received all kinds of basekit tools to help pressure Survivors: Faster pallet breaking, faster gen kicking, 2.5% instant gen regression when kicking, longer gen repair times, Survivors getting shorter speed boosts when hit, nerfed Dead Hard...the list goes on.
I haven't thought of the specifics but it has to be something that makes it worth leaving the hook over camping.
@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3443213#Comment_3443213
And I don't understand how standing beside a hooked Survivor, doing literally nothing is considered fun for Killers. Is getting the kill really that much more important than having fun? Or are you only able to have fun when you get kills?
So your response to people complaining about camping is "learn to loop, don't get hooked, get gud." Well, the same applies to the other side as well: Learn to interrupt multiple Survivors, learn to spread pressure, get gud.
WInning is fun. Also, I rarely camp for long unless the survivors are hovering around the hook. It's usually just a short camp to secure the next hook stage, so it isn't boring.
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@nars said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3442249#Comment_3442249
Which was unfair. You shouldn't be able to just camp someone and guarantee they die with nothing the survivors can do.
What if a survivor could just sit on a gen all game with nothing you could do to stop it? No chasing, no downing, they just stay on it forever. Not fair.
@nars said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3443105#Comment_3443105
Yes camping is a strategy. But one that is unfun for the survivor, and is used by standing still and doing nothing. Its boring for both sides, and this is a game after all so it should be fun. It's only ever truly necessary in endgame, at which point the new system deactivates entirely. No killer relies solely on camping to get kills, all being able to consistently rack up hooks throughout the game and eventually kill. Bubba is effective out of camping because of his instadown and speed boost, hes probably low B-tier. Not the best, but an honorable spot to be in. Not even trapper relies on camping, even though basement trapper is phenomenal.
Yeah, both gens and camping involve waiting for the timer to go down. The difference there is that you, as the killer, can patrol the gens and keep survivors off of them via hooks etc. A survivor cant just run up and instantly stop you camping, meanwhile a killer can do that to someone repairing. A survivor going to save someone being camped is going to get hooked themselves if the killer isnt dumb, trading themselves for the hookee. Normally this is done when one stage is about to end, so that the hook is spread between the two instead of one person being dead/deathook.
Except against a bubba, you cant trade. If you go for the save, you will go down despite your health state or skill level. It was so broken that it was a better strat to just leave the hooked guy to die and do gens. Which of course, isnt fun for the hooked guy at all. Why should he be guaranteed to die because he lost one chase? There are 3 hook stages, so it should take around 3 chases in an evenly matched, fun and fair game. But a bubba only needs to win one chase, and he gets a kill. If he gets another down he gets another kill. It doesnt matter if all 3 survivors rush the hook, if you are literally the best dbd player or if the bubba has 2 hours on the game. If he knows he can just stand there, that survivor is dead no matter what. Which isnt fun or fair gameplay. A camping bubba is a guaranteed kill.
On other killers yeah you can trade, but why should someone just standing there guarantee multiple hooks? Typically, a hook requires some sort of skillful play in chase that leads into a down. And while camping may be a smart strategy to use, that doesnt make it skillful. Its as skilled as doing generators, like you said. Therefore it shouldnt be so effective at securing kills as actual skilled plays.
Camping may not be guaranteed but its very boring and unskilled on the killer end, while being boring and uncounterable on the survivor end. The things a survivor can do against a regular m1 camper are:
- Trade (let yourself get hooked to prolong the time the killers not patrolling)
- Do nothing and go do gens (let someone die so the rest can get out)
- rush the hook with multiple teammates, one taking a hit and the other unhooking. (have multiple people off of generators to deal with one hook, and have the coordination thats impossible in soloQ outside of endgame. In endgame its just human nature to rush the hook ig)
- bring reassurance to enhance option 2.
- Bring deliverance so your trade doesnt also need to be traded out, ending the camp cycle.
These solutions are all either bring a specific perk, let someone die, or purposefully get hooked to prevent the death. Something should never require bringing a perk to counter, letting someone die isnt fun so it shouldnt be optimal in any scenario, and trading a camper is unfun and needs you to also be traded out. Even in a trade chain, eventually someone is gonna die if nobodies got deliverance or smth of the sort. Essentially a longer version of option 2, with the hope the killer will either get bored and leave or make a mistake.
None of this applies to instadown killers, or killers exceptional at shredding through health states. Trickers a pretty good camper because of how good he is at tearing through health, huntress as well. Not to mention how good huntress, artist, slinger, bubba, and many more are at defending the basement.
Camping is boring and unskilled for both sides while promoting unfun gameplay with few counters, all of which are either unreasonable or unfun. As a game designed to be fun, camping should not be optimal in most scenarios and should instead be a last ditch effort to secure a kill. Thats what this change does; if you are chasing regularly most of the game, hooks will be spread pretty well. In endgame, you can pretty easily camp someone to secure one last kill. And since the new anti-camp basekit doesnt work after all the gens are done, that method of play still works just as well. The only real issue I could see this being is the range. 16 meters seems too much, maybe 8 or 10. But outside of that this is a positive and welcome addition to dbd.
People need to stop usng "it's not fun" as a counter-argument. BHVR can remove camping while buffing killer somewhere else so that the "unfun" camping is gone while the power level of killers remain the same.
It's not guaranteed that they die. If there's a pallet or window nearby or Bubba enters Tantrum, they have a chance to escape. Also, Reassurance is already a major counter to camping. If they use it, it's almost always necessary to immediately stop camping to avoid losing the game.
@fulltonon said:
Anything that reduces kill rate is good, you don't need to ask for buff because statistics will tell them (unless BHVR suddenly thinks 40% is what kill rates should be)
Nah. I am asking for a compensation buff in this case because I think BHVR made this change as a quality of life change and didnt consider the impact on kill rates.
@mca240 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3443113#Comment_3443113
30% of my matches are SWF.
You know why you can't beat them? It's because you don't camp. It's necessary to play as dirty as possible to beat strong SWFs. This is why I consider the camping changes a nerf that needs to be compensated for.
Also being unable to get a 50 win streak due to swfs is a poor excuse. OnePumpWillie and I also get swfs during our streaks and still beat them fine.
@durag_demon1 said:
Idk why killers think they need to be compensated for everything.. survivors get nerfed all the time with no compensation
Blast Mine
Reverted 24 second heal time to 16 second.
Mettle of Man
When Decisive Strike was nerfed, Borrowed Time was made base kit.
@NerfDHalready said:
you can give another killer a try if you find bubba weak enough to the point you can win as him only if you face camp. idk if that's even a valid argument, killers shouldn't be balanced around their ability to face camp.
I didn't say I couldn't win on Bubba without face camping. I'm just saying that it's a massive nerf to Bubba. I will still beat solos fine but beating strong teams will be difficult. Also, the change affects all killers and not just Bubba. Bubba is just the one that is most affected. Also, Bubba has the 2nd/3rd lowest kill rate in the game at high mmr and shouldn't be nerfed further. https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/350586/stats-kill-rate-by-killer-and-mmr-september-2022#latest
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@mca240 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3443105#Comment_3443105
50 win streak on anything but an S-tier killer isn’t realistic, lol.
But you said you can guarantee 3-4k unless you face comp swf?
Also, you don't need S tier killers to get 50 win streaks. I have recent 50+ winstreaks on Hag, Myers, and Plague. OnePumpWillie has 100+ win streaks on Sadako, Skull Merchant, Spirit, and Knight.
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@jesterkind said:
Based on what we know so far, it looks like the legitimate form of camping - IE, patrolling around near-ish the hook and actually taking chase with the first survivor you see - should be largely unaffected. This new system should, on paper, only affect you if you're stubbornly standing by the hook and refusing to take chase away from it, a la the infamous facecamping Bubba scenario.
And if you are in that scenario, good, you should be punished. You should play the game and employ the actual strategies available to the killer, not just stand in one place and wait for the timer to go down.
Camping is a strategy. As I said, camping is the best choice in some situations and for some killers.
Standing still and waiting for the timer to go down. Sounds like doing gens?
@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3442311#Comment_3442311
If the devs gave a buff to offset the camping nerf, that would completely defeat the purpose of the camping nerf. The devs don't need to compensate for it, that's up to you to do. And that's as easy as chasing another survivor.
False. The camping changes were implemented because it wasn't fun for survivors and caused "frustration". The change was made to improve enjoyment for survivors and was not a balance change. Therefore, any changes to the games balance must be accounted for. See https://deadbydaylight.com/news/anniversary-gameplay-updates.
@Yoshirama said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3442279#Comment_3442279
How is that a nerf? lmao
No other survivor will come to rescue. This means gens will go much faster and Bubba can't get a free down on another survivor
It isn't a buff. The survivor will always wait until the last second before the next hook stage before they unhook themselves. This means that the camper won't save any time and will lose far more time from having to chase again. In the best case scenario where Bubba can down them again with 1 chainsaw, it's another 20-25 seconds wasted from chasing and hooking again. Secondly, survivors can't protect the unhooked surivor against a Bubba since they will be already downed or running into a Chainsaw.
Depending on if there are nearby pallets and windows, Bubba may not get the down from a single Chainsaw and in that case, it becomes a regular chase.
Boy, if you don't want that to happen just get away from the hook.
Why people want compensation for stop doing a cheap mechanic and actually start playing the game?
If you've read that comment, it clearly explains why it's a nerf. Though, I'll repeat myself. There are many situations where camping is better but the most common situation is camping a survivor that is nearly dead. Between camping for 30 seconds to kill a survivor and potentially get an additional down compared to chasing another survivor, which can take 30-60 seconds for a down, the first option is vastly superior. The camping changes prevents the vastly stronger first option and therefore, is a nerf.
@MoNosEmpire said:
"Camping is an important strategy for killers to secure kills"
Nothing should be guaranteed in DBD.
@not_requested49 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3442249#Comment_3442249
You shouldn't be able to "guarantee kills" tho? At least not till endgame
I agree that there should be no guarantees. When survivors walk through the exit gates, there should be a small chance that they get teleported onto a hook so they aren't guaranteed an escape. /s
@not_requested49 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3442279#Comment_3442279
Honestly you just sound butthurt that you can't kick a player out 3 minute into the game anymore lmao
If I was, I would be arguing to cancel the camping changes. My post is neither for or against the change. I am just saying if killers get nerfed due to it, a buff is needed to offset it.
@mca240 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3442249#Comment_3442249
Lol. I can play Bubba and by playing normally can guarantee a 3-4K unless a comp. SWF. Just get better at the game and actually learn to loop and mind game. Bubba is not the strongest but def. not the worst killer.
@Emeal said:
As a Bubba player that does not Camp, I can confirm, he is plenty strong without needing to Camp.
Yes you will have to learn to play Bubba without FaceCamping, which is easy.
Ever heard of https://www.twitch.tv/sethgameon? This guy has over 6k overs on Bubba, is one of the top Bubba players in the world, and recently attempted a 50 win streak on Bubba. He never camps. After several weeks, he gave up because it was impossible.
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@Göch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3442279#Comment_3442279
" If a survivor is 30 seconds from death, there's no point chasing another survivor"
Thats exactly the reason why they do this change my friend, you're just proving why the change necessary.
My post isn't arguing against the change though. I'm saying that killers need a buff to offset the nerf if it does come through.
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@Göch said:
You should earn your Kills and not cheese them by camping with an instadown ability. You can still secure your kills in endgame, but otherwise please PLAY THE GAME instead of reving your chainsaw infront of a hooked survivor.
There are situations where camping is obviously superior. The most common one is if the survivor is close to death. If a survivor is 30 seconds from death, there's no point chasing another survivor, which will likely take more than 30 seconds. Camping in this situation guarantees a death and potential additional down while chasing another survivor is only a down after a long chase. Also, the camping nerf isn't exclusive to Bubba. It affects all killers.
@Rokku_Rorru said:
You will literally be able to still play that way, heck they'll just be easier to tunnel likely because if they unhook themselves who is going to protect them???? Stop over reacting and do some chasing for once.
Bubba can still play that way but it's a very large nerf. These are the nerfs:
- No other survivor will come to rescue. This means gens will go much faster and Bubba can't get a free down on another survivor
- It isn't a buff. The survivor will always wait until the last second before the next hook stage before they unhook themselves. This means that the camper won't save any time and will lose far more time from having to chase again. In the best case scenario where Bubba can down them again with 1 chainsaw, it's another 20-25 seconds wasted from chasing and hooking again. Secondly, survivors can't protect the unhooked surivor against a Bubba since they will be already downed or running into a Chainsaw.
- Depending on if there are nearby pallets and windows, Bubba may not get the down from a single Chainsaw and in that case, it becomes a regular chase.
@uniqid said:
I don't want to be rude but your comment describes exactly why we need this change. It's been a lot of frustration for far too long. You just can't call "camping" a mechanic or even playing the game for that matter. It locks a survivor out of the game and it takes away any work the killer would have to do for their kills as all they have to do is sit quiet in front of a hook - disgusting in my opinion.
Calling it a nerf is also wrong. It's an abuse prevention mechanic. If you played the game without abusing camping before you won't see a difference. If you did, well... you won't any longer. 🤷
Nope. It's a strategy. If the devs really thought it was abuse, they would have also prevented it in EGC too. The fact that they went out of their way to disable the anti-camping in EGC means that they acknowledge it as a legitimate strategy. Camping is a strong strategy in some situations and for some killers. If they are nerfing camping, killers need to be compensated for it.
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@Göch said:
You can do completely fine as bubba wihtout camping.
Yes but it's still a very large nerf. Camping allowed Bubba to guarantee kills.
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@IC17 said:
Same here (PC-steam). Not all players having this bug so I think it related with some parts of PC setting, I tried changeing various display settings but nothing works.
Also sometimes pressing buttons on controller can solve this bug.(when playing with mouse)
You have to attack to fix the bug but it swings your camera when you do.
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Survivors really can cry about anything.
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In reality, this change will only affect killers face camping you the moment they hook you. If they leave the hook and come back to face camp you, the bar won't fill up in time, so this change won't make a difference most matches.
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Just got out of a 15 minute hatch standoff due to this. I was on the hatch waiting as Wraith while survivor was at the exit games. If I close hatch, survivor opens gate and I lose. If survivor comes to hatch, I chase survivor and win. A block on the exit gates needs to be implemented to prevent hatch stand off.
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No.
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What are you abouting? Killer is the easiest it has been since this game was released.
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Killer main for 4 years here. Killer is the most fun it has been since I started playing. Don't know what everyone else is smoking.
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@xPrinceHarlequinx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3432720#Comment_3432720
I was speaking about being ready to go next from a killer perspective but interesting you immediately th on that it was a survivor pov
Then don't close the hatch and let the survivor escape through it. Literally just go afk and let the survivor find hatch on their own.
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@xPrinceHarlequinx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3432411#Comment_3432411
By that point in the game i am ready to go next and start a new game. I dont even want to wait an additional 15 seconds. Honestly, a 4k shouldnt be that important to you.
As I've said, the 15 second wait won't have any impact in most games. In most games, the survivor will not reach the exit gate within 15 seconds, so it will already be unblocked by the time they get there. It mainly only impact players trying to cheese an escape by waiting at the exit gate.
If you are already ready to go next and truly don't care any more, run to the killer so they can kill you. That literally saves far more time than running around for hatch, waiting for the killer to close it, and trying to open the exit gates.
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@Milo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3432228#Comment_3432228
The bar doesn't exist yet.
I am saying that since it doesn't exist, it's already like that in current patch.
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@bm33 said:
If you're having trouble getting to the survivor after closing hatch you can run No Way Out. Not only will it block the gate for you but it'll also let you know which exit the survivor was at.
That's a band-aid solution. You can't suggest running perks to resolve every issue in the game.
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@xPrinceHarlequinx said:
Most of the time both exit gates are within line of sight. If you’ve gotten to the point where you’ve closed hatch, you will pip and have won the match. Blocking the exit gate switches just extends an already finished game.
My suggestion is to block them for 15 seconds. This is barely any longer. As I said, this 15 second block won't even have an impact in most of the games since survivors usually wait to the last 40% of EGC to open the gate and reaching the gate within 15 seconds is rare. The block only impacts games where survivors try to cheese an escape by waiting at the gates.
@Nazzzak said:
Devs have said multiple times that endgame shouldn't favour anyone. It's purely a means to an end. As said above, there are plenty of times when gates spawn close to each other. It's pure RNG. Sometimes they spawn further away from each other, which can end up giving some leeway to a survivor going against a killer with poor map traversal. But other times they're so close any killer can stand in between them and watch both doors.
Don't see how this is relevant. Also, to me, the ability to wait at an exit gate to cheese an escape is survivor sided.
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True that exit gates need discussion. Both exit gates should always be watchable at the same time by the killer. If I manage to close Hatch, which gaves a massive chance for the survivor to escape in a situation where they should have already lost, I should not have to worry about another situation where the survivor is practically guaranteed to escape. If both exit gates are far, all the survivor has to do is hide until the killer comes and leaves then open the exit gate and it's a guaranteed escape.
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No.
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@ElodieSimp said:
If it were to stop, the trolling would begin. Have to think of Solo Queue as well. Let's see it in practice first then decide.
What trolling? In the current patch, the bar is already stopped.
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They will use the bots from custom matches. I'm fairly sure that this is a buff for killer since the bots are so bad.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3430379#Comment_3430379
That doesn't surprise me.
I'll refuse to crawl if dumped close to the hatch because that's what I'm expecting.
But you'll miss hatch if they are giving it for real :(
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5 blink Nurse with 4.6 m/s.
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"Thanks"
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How bad is Knight AI?
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Sounds like me. I like letting survivors crawl to the hatch and slamming it shut.
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So? It's not like survivors with 999999 hours go easy when they get a baby killer. Also, 150 hours is not newbie. That's already enough time to get decent at the game.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3424187#Comment_3424187
How about leaving him one important counterplay instead? Or would you be OK with compensating him (say he can't use chainsaw to break pallets at all)?
The counterplay is still there though, slowing down even for 1 sec can stop Bubba from getting the down before they reach the pallet.
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Ok. I got it. How about rather than entering Tantrum when he collides, Bubba slows down significantly until he moves away? This makes Tantrum less punishing while stopping Bubba from hugging walls.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3419363#Comment_3419363
15s cooldown ONLY IF you use your whole power. Most of the time you don't NEED to use whole power. U just use a few seconds of it = the cooldown is much shorter. Also she is #3 strongest killer. If she needs buffs... Well. I don't know what to tell you. It's almost the same as asking for nurse or blight buff. Or Artist (she even has low pick rate so that would work in this regards too). It's just pure insane
We were comparing Blight and Spirit cooldowns. I think it's fair to say that Blight often doesn't use all of his charges. Whatever the case, Blight's cooldown is on average significantly shorter than Spirit's. I also disagree on only using Spirit's power a small amount. Unless you are using the duration addon, you will often use most of it.
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@Leidenschaft90 said:
"post-nerf Spirit is much weaker" WHAT? xDD
"and much fewer people play her" WHAT? xDD
"If Spirit misses her power, she has to wait very long to get it back and getting a hit as a 4.4 m/s killer is too hard" WHAT?????????????????????????? XDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
Spirit's power has like zero cooldown while Blight has a balanced cooldown as long as he's not playing the broken addons "Adrenaline Vial" or "Alchemist's Ring".
Dude, whatever you consume, stop it...
If the nerf wasn't that significant, let's unnerf her then since it didn't make much of a difference.
Spirit's pick rate is only 2.5-3%. She used to be one of the most picked killers with around 5% pick rate. It's a significant drop. https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/350586/stats-kill-rate-by-killer-and-mmr-september-2022#latest
You're absolutely insane if you think a 15 second power cooldown isn't long. I think this is actually the longest primary power cooldown in the game.
"Spirit's power has like zero cooldown while Blight has a balanced cooldown as long as he's not playing the broken addons "Adrenaline Vial" or "Alchemist's Ring"."
I actually lost brain cells reading this. Spirit's cooldown is 15 seconds. Blight's cooldown is 10 seconds for all charges.
Dude, whatever you consume, stop it...
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I think you guys are giving Deathslinger and Trickster way too much credit. Trickster usually ranks low on the killer tier list as C tier and Deathslinger in the middle at B tier. Both of them suffer from the same problem: not enough map pressure, and this directly stems from their 4.4 m/s. Giving them 4.6 m/s would probably bring them up a tier each, so Deathslinger at A tier and Trickster at B tier.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Do you mean weekdays or weekends? When I wasn't working and I had time to play during the day on weekdays I found survivors were usually pretty good. It was weekend days and afternoons (weekdays) that I felt quality dropped. This was some time ago so many things have changed.
I get baby survivors every day throughout most of the day. I haven't played late night much during the weekday but on the weekends, they are definitely there.
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He's decent now. Before the changes, flashlights and Dead Hard made Wraith unplayable.
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As a killer main, yes. Dead Hard and healing nerf is amazing.
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I was already tunnelling last patch. This patch is no different.